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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ayrshire => Topic started by: ceccharlton on Saturday 25 December 10 09:28 GMT (UK)
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I hope everyone is enjoying a good Xmas.
I am seeking information about the birth and parents of Robert Speir who purchased Camphill Farm, Dalry in 1741. Robert married Jean Broun in 1724. Robert was a /the brother of James speir, merchant in Glasgow. James married Rebecca Thomson and died in 1741. I have data concerning James' marriage and children. Just prior to his death James wrote to Robert, addressing the letter to 'Robert Speir, Weaver in Dalry'. I cannot find where either was born - was it Dalry with James moving on to Glasgow to become a successful businessman and Robert staying home? Was it the other way around with Robert leaving Glasgow to go Dalry? Or, neither of these?
All assistance gratefully received.
regards
ceccharlton
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Hi ceccharlton,
My husband's family are Speir but at the time your Speir are at Camphill Farm ours are at Glenside, West Kilbride. They have arrived there from Erskine. I've had a look through my file but cannot find anything to help you. However I just wanted to point out this website.
http://www.ayrshireroots.com/
If you click through to SURNAMES (not Surname Database)
Select Speir from the list of names
Scroll down to find 2 database one for Baptism and one for Marriages of "Speir" in Ayrshire. The database are sorted by parish. It may help you identify the parents of Robert and James. Unfortunately the database only covers Ayrshire.
Good luck.
Regards
Yvonne
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Thank you Cloud. So far I have not identified any connection with Speir in West Kilbride. Unfortunately, the name with its various spellings, is relatively common in Ayrshire and surrounding counties. I have good data for Robert's descendants but nothing earlier and, as the early Dalry records are sparse I think that will be it!
many thanks
ceccharlton
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Hi cec
It appears the SPEIR family are still dairy farming in Dalry:
(*) if you wish, that's the dial code, etc. I'm from Saltcoats originally, a few miles west of Dalry).
http://www.happyhaggis.co.uk/ayrshire-dalrystmag.htm
135. Erected in memory of Robert Speir of Townend and Camphill and Marion Kirkwood his wife and of Robert Speir of South Camphill and Martha Dunlop of his ### also of Robert Speir eldest son of Robert Speir farmer in ### who died in ###…###.
http://www.yabbers.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?mforum=scotsgen&p=1701
Q98
Fremantle
Western Australia
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Thanks Q98
Robert and Marion K are my ancestors. The other Speir group mentioned on the 'yabbers' site do not appear to be connected.
regards
Cec
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hi ceccharlton. I have a connection with your Robert Spier. I am descended separately from James and Robert, both sons (but I think there was probably at least one more) of Robert Spier and Marion Kirkwood. I think these would probably be grandchildren of your James & Rebecca Thomson (given that my James ha
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sorry....... given that my James had both a sister and a daughter Rebecca and another sister Mary who has a daughter Rebecca. I would very much appreciate any info you have, I have got no further than James & Marion K - Dalry records not very helpful as often the mothers are not stated and there are so many Spiers' calles James and Robert! I have a lot of info going forwards if any of it is any use to you. My family were at North Camphill which was later flooded to create the Camphill reservoir, and Routdeanburn which still exists.
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sorry again! didn't explain who MY James was - he's the one b 1751 m Margaret Easdale and brother of the Robert who m Martha Dunlop. James & Margaret's granddaughter Agnes Spier of North Camphill subesquently m Robert & Martha's grandson Hugh Robertson of Thirdparthall Kilbarchan. Hope that makes more sense now!
Also of course it was Robert who m Marian Kirkwood and not james, wasn't thinking straight this afternoon.
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Hullo Susandun,
thanks for your response and interest in Family speir.
I have been seeking info re Robert Speir b abt 1703 and his brother James b abt 1705 - no luck so far. I have an original letter written by Jas to Rob in 1741. Jas' testament is available from Scotlands People. I have data re Jas' marriage and children but have not followed the line down any further.
Robert Speir m Jean Broun and produced Robert - known later as Robert 'younger' or 'ygr', James, Mary, Eliz, Martha James and maybe etc.
Rob(ygr) m Marion Kirkwood and produced your James, Rebecca, Jean, Mary, Robert who was later on South Camphill Farm (m Martha Dunlop), Hugh (my line and eventually to Australia), John, Martha, Martha and William. From here on I have followed my line down from Hugh however I have investigated the wider family to some extent in order to clarify the Camphill (north and south) story and also because a grandson of your Jas, William (m Margaret Harvie) went to farm on Ardenslate Farm in Dunoon and produced a daughter, Jeanie, who married back into my line. I have a bureau known in the family as the Ardenslate Bureau.
The data concerning the Camphill Farms (including Blair Park, Routedaneburn etc) is available from the various testaments, census records and sasine documentation from Scotlands People as well as from some of the cemetery inscriptions - admittedly, these do require a lot of work.
As it is impossible to cover everything perhaps a few specific questions might be easier?
I note you use the 'Spier' spelling - it is my understanding that, at the time, 'Speir' was used for this particular branch of the family (with occasional variations), however this is an old problem and familiar to anyone carrying any version of the name . In my particular case the 'ei' form was retained and a final 's' was added a couple of generations down the tree.
regards cec
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Thanks Cec. I have James (I think his birth record is "James or Robert" but it pretty much has to be him), Rebecca, Jean, Mary and Robert. I don't have Hugh, the 2 Marthas or William, could you possibly give me the dates for them? Do you have an online tree where I could get details of the descent from Hugh? If not, if it's not too much hassle could you possibly e-mail more info on descendants of Robert and Marion and in return I will happily send you my info? My e-mail is (*).
I did realise there was probably at least one other brother as the inventory of James (m Mgt Easdale) estate at his death refers to Robert Spier younger of Camphill being his eldest brother. In the inventory there is also refernence to rent being due to him at the time of his death by William S (maybe the youngest brother) and John S (don't know who he was).
Re where did they come from, was it Dalry to Glasgow or Glasgow to Dalry, I suspect they were in the Dalry areain the late 18th century. There is a record of farm horse tax for a James Spier of Camphill in 1797/98. Possibly the father of Robert m Marion Kirkwood and James the Glasgow merchant? The merchant may have been a linen merchant, in the early 19th century the weaving industry in Dalry took off and many local people were producing linen for merchants in Glasgow so maybe James went to Glasgow to tale advantage of that?
Although not directly relevant to you, their is a sad story online in an obit from the Wigtownshire Advertiser concerning Jean, daughter of James S & Janet Archibald who were my GGG Grandparents. She died in June 1845. She took ill of scarlet fever on the Saturday, banns for her marriage were called in the church on the Sunday, she died on the Monday and was buried on Friday 13th, the day she was due to be married.
Spier has been used in my family as a middle name since the children of my GG Grandparents Agnes Spier & Hugh Robertson who were both grandchildren of James & Margaret Easdale. My G Grandfather had no S at the end but we have always had the I before the E. My grandfather, father, brother and nephew are all James Spiers Robertson.
Lastly, do you have any info on the Rebecca S who m John Howie? I have her in as the daughter of James & Margaret Easdale but I don't think that can be right as the age at death is way out.
Best regards,
Susan
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I am new to this website and not computer savvy. I'm researching Robert Speir and Jean Brown. We are having a family reunion in about 2 weeks. I'm trying to get this put together to give to the "elders". Where have you found your information? Are you willing to share info?
dday
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Not sure I'm doing this right. Not computer savvy. Robert Speir and Jean Brown is my family. Trying to get info together for family reunion in 2 weeks. Are you willing to share info? Thanks
dhday
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Hi dhday, my info has taken 5 or 6 years so far to put together and is by no means anything like complete/finished with many questions still to be answered but if you let me know your e-mail I will send you what I have on the descendants for Robert and Jean.
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Hi susandun,
Anything that you are willing to share would be wonderful! A family member started this many years ago and has since passed away. I have names and years but not actual dates. I am curious as to occupations. He has gone back to Robert and Jean. John Speir(1860-1931) and Isabella Erskine (1863-1950) are my husbands ggrandparents. Where do you fit in the tree? Do you want info for William (1888-1958) and Marguerite Moore (1890-1981)? My e-mail address is (*). Where do you live? I'm in Canada.
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Hi,
Found your listing while researching Thomsons.
Rebecca Thomson, wife of James Speir, was the daughter of George Thomson & Helen Wales of Glasgow.
Her brother Andrew Thomson is my 5G-grandfather.
I am interested in finding out anything I can about this couple.
Thanks
Mark
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Mark, it is good to hear from you. My main interest is in Robert Speir, brother of James Speir who married Rebecca Thomson. Rebecca's brother, Andrew, was an executor named in James' will and also a witness for the births of some of James' children. Although the Thomson line is not really relevant to me I did pursue it in the hope that I might find something of relevance for Robert. The information I do have for the Thomsons can be found in: 'Some Old Families: A Contribution to Genealogical History of Scotland', page 137, by Hardy Bertram McCall. Published in Birmingham, 1890 by Watson & Ball. The information it contains should allow you to delve a little deeper into the official documents and records pertaining to the Thomsons.
I hope this helps
regards, Cec
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Thanks Cec.
Had the info on Hardy McCall's book. Would be interesting to find out more about this family.
Best of luck with your ongoing research
Mark
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I am looking for a James Speir b. ca 1790. He was SOMEHOW related to Robert SPIER of the Spier School in Beith, but unlike Robert he appears to have been a rather poor weaver. (He appears as a debtor in Robert's will in 1850. So he's not likely a brother. But members of our family apparently went to Scotland to challenge Robert's will). James had some kind of ties to Newton, Ayr, but was of Beith Parish when married in 1812. He later lived in Dalry. I do know that the PATRICK name is mentioned throughout the SPIER school documents. I see two PATRICK marriages in your Dalry family, they were weavers, the names James and Robert are prevalent, and the location is compatible as well as Robert's family homestead was also in Dalry (Kersland Mill). I have been unable to locate an OPR for James, but I keep coming back to your family as a likely match.
I have a ton of information on the early families in Beith and Dalry, but afraid I also can't figure out the exact connection of your Robert. I know in the Hearth Tax records of 1691 there was a John and Robert Speir listed in Dalry. So perhaps Robert is yours!
If anyone has information on my family, PLEASE reply!
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Hi Susan,
I'm researching the same family and have a ton of information on them.
I actually just ordered the birth record yesterday that has Robert/James b. 1751 in Dalry. The birth record actually says "Robert Speir you (younger?), weaver in Kirktown had a lawful son called Robert James born Nov 23rd and baptized on the 24th 1751. The name Robert is struck out.
This must be the son of the weaver Robert Speir and Marion Kirkwood of Kirktown, Dalry. He was also the son of a Robert and later had another son James born in 1753 and a son Robert born in 1759. So this James most likely died before 1753. (see attached).
I have a huge family tree for the Speir of Beith and am trying to figure out if or how they connect to the Speir of Dalry. I do know that in the 1691 Hearthtax list there was both a John and Robert in Dalry. However, parish records for Dalry don't seem to go back to that period and I suspect they were baptised in Beith.
Moderator comment - imaged cropped , copyright.
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hi I just got in Dalry a Georgian portrait of "Speir author of "Coming through the Rye" a descendant of Speir of Camphill, Dalry it depicts him holding a pen any info on him I would think portrait dates 1770 -1850 period, many thanks robert
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I have just discovered this site and I am descended from the Speirs of North Camphill, Dalry. I have a copy of the James Speir letter from 1741. I note that someone has the original which was discovered in Canada after a Jock Speir died in 1999. I would like to be in touch with d day as we must be related. I have just revised my history of the Speirs of Camphill. There are one or two inaccuracies in some of the previous correspondence.
Hope to be in touch with other Speir researchers.
Shehar
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Hi cecharlton.
I am also descended from this family from North Camphill, Dalry. I am very interested to hear that you have the original of James Speir's sad letter written in 1741. I assume you must be descended from the line that went to Canada. I have very little information on this line. Some of my information came from Ena and Annette Arrol, in Glasgow, who died a few months ago. I believe they visited their Canadian relations c 1960. My copy of James Speir's letter came from them- my 2nd cousins twice removed. It would be great to be in touch.
Shehar.
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Hi, I hope this thread isn’t too old to post in and get a response. I’m a brand-new user and stumbled across this thread in a web search. I am hoping to discover whether my family connects to the Robert Speirs discussed here.
I recently broke through a brick wall in discovering the father of my 2GGM Mary Donald of Dalry. He was Robert Donald, farmer of Broomhill, Kilwinning. Mary Donald was born July 4, 1856. Robert Donald, my 3GGF, died April 4, 1857. His parents are listed as William Donald and Ann Craig. Their marriage record lists William as being from Saltcoats, and Ann from Dalry, married August 5, 1808.
William Donald, my 4GGF, died January 5, 1858. His parents are listed as William Donald and Mary Speir.
William Donald, my 5GGF, of Ardrossan and Mary Speir of Dalry married December 8, 1777.
I have not found a death record for Mary Speir, so my next connection is partly a guess, but I find a birth record from Dalry for a Mary Speir born 19 and baptized the 20 of March, 1757, father Robert Speir You’r.
I am hoping someone can tell me whether this lineage connects to the lineage discussed above. Any errors in my connections also gratefully accepted.
Thank you!