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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: 85jbk on Saturday 01 January 11 04:13 GMT (UK)
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Mary Hawkes formerly Davis from all accounts was born in Cork about 1831.
This I have established through the birth certificate of my great grandfather, Thomas Hawk es born 8 June 1861 at Gundaroo, New South Wales, Australia.
The Informant on this certificate was John Hawkes, Father of Gundaroo.
John list himself as Shepherd, 49 years old from Staffordshire.
John was born/christened 25 December 1817,Saint Matthew, Walsall, England.
John had also been married prior to being married to Mary in 27 March 1837 to Jane formerly Hawkins.
Unfortunately for John Hawkes he was convicted of a felony and given 7 years to Australia. He never was to see Jane again which is when John married Mary Davis and had another family in Australia.
The marriage certificate of Mary & John gives little information with no parents listed.
It States John Hawkes of the parish of Seymour & Mary Ann Davis of the Parish of Seymour, were married in this house of Mr.McLain by License with Consent of William Austin, this 28th Day of February 1852, by William Singleton. The registrar was signed with John Hawkes using his mark, X and Mary Ann Davis signing her name.
William Austin was one of the party to witness and the other witness is illegible.
To date a death for Mary has not been found and is proving to be difficult.
I Would like to establish her family before coming to Australia and her arrival into Australia.
I did take a brief look into Mary being an orphan, and found an entry listed which could be her but given the lack of info on Mary felt I could not confirm or deny this.
The Entry was listed in Irish Famine Orphans in Australia,
Mary Davis,18, Cork,C of E, Mr.John Clarke, Bourke Street,9Pounds, 6 months
As far as the religion of the Family, John Hawkes was buried as C of E in 1894. And as far as I know the Hawkes family on my line have all been Presbyterian/Uniting.
If you can help me out with the next step to further my research into the Davis Line I would love to hear from you
Regards
85jbk
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Hi
Where did John Hawkes die? Is this his death registration?
1894 John HAWKS, parents Thomas and Sarah reg at DUBBO
And I am assuming the birth of Thomas (b Gundaroo 1861) is the one on NSW BMDs registered at Queanbeyan?
Was the marriage in Victoria? Do you think there may have been child/ren born there?
I could not see anything much for him except his convict record which shows he was convicted at Stafford and Walsall quarter sessions, 11 October 1837 (Jane didn't have him for long!), transported for 7 years, voyage date 27 July 1838 to NSW on the Earl Grey.
Sorry - not much help at all :(
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Judb,
The marriage listed by 85jbk does appear in Victoria:
HAWKS John m. DAVIS Mary Ann 1852 #25677
Denomination: Church of England
Parish: KILMORE
There doesn't appear to be any births of children registered in VIC.
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Hi
Have you the death certificate for John Hawks senior [his death certificate should mention his wife] and also followed up William born 1859. There could be others with different spellings too. [William J Hawke at Patricks Plain 1857 /4066]
Sometimes marriage certificates can give information about whether a parent is still alive or you may be lucky and witnesses can provide a clue. It is sometimes worthwhile to find the rest of a family in trying to search for one member.
mummum
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Hello Judb
Thanks for your input, much appreciated. :) Yes the death you mentioned is correct as is the b of Thomas at Quenbeyan.
As mentioned by Merlin the marriage was in Victoria. Thank You Merlin. :)
There were in fact 5 children of the marriage, three born in Victoria and two born in Gundaroo. Tricky with this one and took me a long time to track down the baptism of the first child Sarah at Seymour in Victoria. She was born 16Th December 1852 and Baptised 29 October 1854. Mary Ann was next and her information came from a copy of a Death Transcription, that her daughter was an informant on. This gives her pob at Seymour C1855. No actual birth recording to date. Next is John Joseph Hawkes, also with only information from another certificate. This time his marriage certificate which states he was born in Melbourne C1862, However on the death certificate of John it states Carcoar, both are possible. Next is William born 27 January 1859 and died at Gundaroo 27 July 1860. Lastely is my Great grandfather Thomas Hawkes born 1861.
Thanks mum mum for your suggestion, the question is what if you have already been down that track? I am now going over all my research in the hope something pops out at me. Still waiting...
I actually considered Mary remarring as she was all that much younger than her husband John. Some 19 years difference. So when John Died in 1894 he was 76 years old therefore Mary had to be 57. On second thoughts not likely :-\
Oh how can I make the next move?
Look forward to your replies guys...
85jbk
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Can you give us the details of where John died & is buried from 1894 & possibly the last year & place that you have confirmed Mary to be alive?
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I see John HAWKES was assigned to Mr George Porter in Victoria.
Do you know when he was sent to or arrived in Victoria?
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Hi 85jbk
I thought there may have been other children as there is 9 years between the marriage and the birth of Thomas in 1861.
I'm a bit confused re DoBs. Your first post suggests 1831 for Mary Ann, but if there was 29 years difference this would make her DoB 1842 - a bit young to be married and a mother :-\ (Could be my arithmetic ::) )
Also if John was 49 in 1861 this points to a DoB of c1812. I realise that there are often discrepancies in records (not made any easier by John not being able to read) but it makes the searches even more difficult.
There is a record on the PROV assisted passengers for:
Mary Ann Davis, 17 (b abt 1831)
Arriving 13 Dec 1848 at Geelong
Ship: Lady Kennaway
Unfortunately none of the index entries give her nationality. She appears to be the only DAVIS on that ship (and your Mary Ann appears to have no relatives at her wedding). There are 3 records for her
Book 4 p169;
Book 4 p159
Book 4B p2
I can do a lookup next week at the NLA but other 'chatters may have quicker access. Seems to me it's worth having a look, especially in the light of what I foujnd below:
Aha - further hunting reveals an account of the arrival of the Lady Kennaway in The Argus, Friday 8 December 1848. The ship was carrying Irish orphan girls aged 14-18. So this record now seems very possible, and could well fit with the info you already have from the Irish Famine Orphans. (An amusing aside - the captain had 'mislaid the manifest' so The Argus was unable to publish a list of the cargo :o )
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/4766359?searchTerm=geelong%20AND%20"lady%20kennaway"&searchLimits=exactPhrase=lady+kennaway|||anyWords|||notWords|||l-textSearchScope=*ignore*%7C*ignore*|||fromdd|||frommm|||fromyyyy=1848|||todd|||tomm|||toyyyy=1848|||l-word=*ignore*%7C*ignore*|||sortby
Judith
Edit to add: John's death on the NSW BMD index is in my first reply - however it is only the registration so he may have died elsewhere.
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Yes, I could see his death reg, I was just hoping for some further detailed information to try & trace Mary's death 8)
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Hi again 85jbk
Could you please tell us more about where the deaths (and perhaps marriages) of the children occurred? As mum mum and Merlin have said these may give some clues as to where Mary Ann finished up - perhaps living with one of her children?
For example there is this death in Victoria which is fairly near in age but would Mary Ann have been in Beechworth?
1904 #7484
Mary Ann Hawkes, 76,
Beechworth, Victoria
Cheers, Judith
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Hi
I went to reply before but got sidetracked.
Re Mary Ann remarrying at age 57, I would not count out a remarriage or common loaw relationship at any age. Quite a few of mine seemed to have no trouble finding another spouse. And what's wrong with a woman over 55 that you think she wouldn't remarry. ;)
mum mum
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Hi
Do you have the daughters married names, where would they have been living?
Re the death at Beechworth, I can't see any Hawks or Hawkes at Beechworth on the 1903 roll.
mum mum
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Hi 85jbk,
If Mary Ann arrived into Victoria then there is generally no way of knowing for sure which one, if any, are your girl. Unfortunately the records just don't give enough information unless known family members were travelling with her.
DAVIS MARY ANN 17 DEC 1848 LADY KENNAWAY 4B 2
List of female orphan immigrants per ship Lady Kennaway into the depot 13th December 1848.
DAVIS, Mary Ann, 17, Roman Catholic, housemaid, employer Peter YOUNG, of Melbourne.
DAVIS MARY ANN 17 DEC 1848 LADY KENNAWAY 4 159
This entry is a disposal list and just gives her name.
This person is also listed amongst NSW shipping records and was from Ballina, Co. Mayo.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0b0a/
DAVIS MARY 18 MAY 1849 PEMBERTON 4B 9
A list of female orphan immigrants per ship Pemberton received into the depot 26th May 1849
DAVIS, Mary, 18, Episcopalian, house servant, employer Mr John CLARKE of Bourke Street.
This person is also listed amongst NSW shipping records and was from Co. Cork.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0b09/ (pan down to last entry)
It is interesting that they married by licence as this was expensive and not usually within the reach of most couples. Would the "consent of William AUSTIN" be in relation to Mary Ann being aged under 21? Who was he? Perhaps more can be found on him and Mr McCLAIN of Seymour?
Debra :D
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Good for you, Debra - was hoping you might be able to find the shipping refeences. Given that her place of birth was given as Cork on the birth certificate of her son (have I read that correctly - is that where the reference to Cork is from? :D ) then the lass on the Pemberton seems more likely :-\
LOL mum mum - I was thinking the same about 'older women'. ::)
I wonder if William AUSTIN, who gave his consent to the marriage was the employeee of one of them?
Judith
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Wow you guys are good. Thanks for your suggestions.
Merlin:
John Hawkes died 27 May 1894, Euromedah, near Dubbo, New South Wales, Australia. His occupation was listed as Selector. His age is given as 85 years old. Cause of Death is Senile Decay. Father is listed as Thomas Hawkes, Labourer and Mother Sarah Badgery. The Informant is Joh HAwkes, Son, Timbrebongie.( This is near Dubbo). John was Buried 29 May 1894, Narromine Cemetery by Undertakers George Light and by Minister RWP Montgomery. C of E. It states John was Born Warwick, England. He spent 56 years in NSW. Place married was London England at age 43. Spouse listed is Mary Davis. Children of the marriage listed are: Sarah Jane 40, May 38, John 35, Thomas 32, Living.
I know from speaking with the priest in Naromine that a place of burial is not known for John due to several big floods over the years, probably something like we are experiencing now, have displaced many graves.
The last confirmation of Mary that I am aware of is at the birth of her grandchild Alfred Mott in 1883. Alfred was born at Wilga Station, near Dubbo. This is Sarah Jane son. Apparently Mary was the informant. I do not have a copy of this.
John Hawkes was sent to Australia aboard Earl Grey 2.
He was convicted and found guilty of stealing seven live fowls from Henry Tibbetts on the 26 August 1837 in The Stafford Quarter Sessions. For this he recieved 7 years to Australia. The Earl Grey 2 sailed from Portsmouth on 8 August 1838 and Arrived to NSW 21 November 1838.
John received his TOL in 1842. From the details of his movement North was the way to go.
Looks like I missed that info on George Porter. What are those details if you are able to share that please.
judb
Yes the dates do get get confusing and you really have to try and figure it out with each bit of information. As you will have just read with the details I have given with the death of John. It would seem that they go to lenghts to conceal info.
The Shipping details look promising and worth a check, even then there was this sort of thing going on.
As to Beechworth I did see that listed but shyed away from that only because the area I had been mostly concentrating on was the district the family lived and worked in and around. Could be worth a look.
As to the children Sarahs lot were around the Western NSW district, Wellington Dubbo, Cobar areas as was John and Mary. Thomas was up until the 1915 were he went north to Longreach Queensland.
mum mum
Yes you are quite right. I have another myself who married and then took the name of another but no records as such, only through childrens certificates.
Sarah Jane married Frederick Mott of the Areas I mentioned before, Wellington, Cobar. As did Mary whom married Robert Smith, of the same Areas. John married Florence Studman. Both John & Florence died at Mudgee. It was here I thought I might find Mary and acuired a certificate for a Ann Norah Hawks died age 60, accidental drowning, There are no parents listed, no date of death, no children known. Thomas was in NSW until he headed North.
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The ‘new’ Robert Burns Inn was where John Hawks and Mary Ann Davis got married in Feb 1852, not the old John Clarks Inn (on the map) The current Royal hotel on the corner of Manners Rd at Seymour, was built in prior to 1852 for McLaurin and some of the buildings at the back are apparently from that time. The Seymour history book has got some other inciteful maps etc from the Seymour Hist soc. Beautiful healthy undulating country The Robert Burns Inn, Later Police station, across the road to the south was John Clarks Inn and McLaurins hotel pre the wedding. The New hotel built in 1849 was where they would have been married (Royal Hotel aka Royal George Hotel) It was quite something for its day and parts of it still stand (at rear of current one). Mary Ann Davis was consented by William Austin of Avenel about 6 miles up the road who was baker and shoemaker at the time (maybe she worked for him).
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judb & debra
am i correct in thinking that this is my girl Mary Ann Davis.
the two records of the pemberton and the orphan girls to australia have the same info or am i being totally blonde here? ::)
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Hi again - Thanks for the extra info although it didn't seem to help much at this stage. :(
There are a couple of deaths which are outside possibilities but a long way from the areas where the family lived. Mind you she could have been away from home at the time of her death. My friend searched for a long time to find her g-grandfather's death only to find he had died quite a long way from home while on holidays at the coast ???
You're right about the details for the girl on the Pemberton and the orphan girl being the same, so it looks to be a good posibility.
Just to add a litlle to your picture there is an interesting article on the history of the Anglican parish of Kilmore and its first minister William SINGLETON who was also Irish apparently. I don't think Seymour had an official church building until the early 1860s.
http://anglicankilmore.org.au/history
The Hotel looks very smart. :)
Judith
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Hi 85jbk,
As I said, without something that shows a definite connection I would have to agree with Judith and say that the immigration record is just a strong possibility. Regarding John Clark's Inn, was this man the owner/publican? Is there any chance he was the same person of Bourke Street in 1849 who employed Mary DAVIS, or is that grasping at straws? Perhaps records of publican's licences might be worth looking at.
Debra :D
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Dundee
will follow up on this one. Didnt pick up on that.
Merlin mentioned John Hawkes was assigned to George Porter in Victoria where does this information come from?
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He is listed in the register of assigned convicts in Victoria here:
Register of Convicts (VA 856) Colonial Secretary's Office, c.1842–1854
http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/publications/documents/00110-P0.asp
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Index to VPRS 7/P0 Treasurer's Correspondence Relating to Publicans, 1838-1855
http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/indexes/index_search.asp?searchid=29
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DAVIS Mary 18 1849 Cork C.E. Pemberton
Mallow Archaeological & Historical Society - Famine Orphans from County Cork to Australia
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlmahs/morph.htm
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Merlin
Thank You. This certainly gives me a few to follow up with.
It certainly is great for fellow chatters to help out when you are stuck.
? What is the locked unlocked for ?
Cheers
85jbk
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? What is the locked unlocked for ?
Can you explain what you mean above ???
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Bottom left hand side of page is a padlock symbol with unlocked/lock
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Ah! you are talking about the RC page here ;D
That's to lock or unlock your thread, if you lock it we can still read it but unable to add any further posts :D
Does that answer your question?
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Yes ;D
Back to Mary Ann Davis, If she was a famine orphan to Australia with no parents listed, what hope does one have of trying to locate a family back in Ireland?
Cheers
85 jbk
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Jill
I am still stuck with confirming our direct ancestor Mary Ann Davis from Cork. I will keep you posted if I ever break this brick wall. I also am confused about her son John Hawkes who married Florence Studman. I have never been able to find proof of his birthdate as yet.
Regards
Pat