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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: dinkey on Thursday 03 June 04 21:52 BST (UK)
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The IGI shows a baptism of Joseph Travis 24 May 1812 Milnrow Lancashire to Benjamin Travis & Mary with batch number PO18241. Source no.0823613 IT 1-4 Printout Call No. 0820786
When I do a search entering Benjamin & Mary it gives me Joseph above and also Jas. Travis bapt. 5 May 1824 Milnrow with the same batch, source and printout call no. as Joseph. Does this mean that they are both the children of Benjamin & Mary?
Can someone tell me how I find a surname for Mary so that I can look for a marriage. The IGI shows a marriage for a Benjamin & Mary in 1805. I have managed to establish that her name was Stansfield and they had children Joseph b 1807, Ann 1808, John 1810 so I think I can discount them as the parents of my Joseph b 1812.
If the Benjamin & Mary I am looking for married in a parish that is not on the IGI where do I go from here?
I hope this is all making sense and that some expert out there can point me to where I can look next.
Thanks
dinkey
Although my query pertains to a family in Lancashire, it is a general query on how to interpret the information held in batch & sort mumbers from the Latter Day Saints site and therefore how we find siblings and parents using this information. It is a query that I think lots of people need the answer to and I was hoping that by putting it in the common room it would reach everyone and I could get some advice which also may help other researchers.
Thanks
dinkey
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Your message has been returned and made sticky for a better response.
Hope this is ok !
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What does the above mean exactly?
where is my message now and how does anyone access a sticky topic?
dinkey
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A sticky topic is a "pinned" topic, so that it stays at the top, and so viewed by more RootsChatters.
People can still reply to "sticky" topics, and should get more replies because it is "sticky"
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I'm a bit confused by what is being asked here but one little point pertaining to this bit:-
Can someone tell me how I find a surname for Mary so that I can look for a marriage. The IGI shows a marriage for a Benjamin & Mary in 1805. I have managed to establish that her name was Stansfield and they had children Joseph b 1807, Ann 1808, John 1810 so I think I can discount them as the parents of my Joseph b 1812.
Why are you discounting it?
Parents often used a name again if the first child had died.
Does anyone show up on the 1841 census?
Pam
;D
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Dinkey
Do you know for sure that 'your' Joseph was BORN in 1812? Could he not have been born in 1807 and baptised in 1812? A 'late' baptism may have been unusual, but not unheard of - please correct me if I'm wrong!! And Pam is right about reusing names if a child has died (I find it a bit spooky, personally, but that's just me) - have you found an early death for the first Joseph?
Bel
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Boogie Pam
The IGI shows that Joseph b 1807, Ann b 1808 & John b 1810 were all baptised at Milnrow to Benjamin Travis & Mary Stansfield who married in 1805.
The reason I discounted them as the parents of Joseph b 1812 was that the baptism entry just shows parents as Benjamin Travis & Mary. I just assumed that if they were the parents of Joseph b 1812 that the entry would show parents as Benjamin Travis & Mary Stansfield as the entry was also at Milnrow.
Do you think I am wrong to assume they are not the parents of Joseph b 1812, if so can you advise the best way to go about confirming this one way or the other.
To bel-jon68
The information I have on Joseph Travis that suggests he was born in 1812 is that on the 1851 census for Ashton-under-Lyne he is with wife Alice and family. His age is given as 39 born Butterworth which is near Milnrow. He is on the 1841 census in Bury with Alice & family and age is given as 25. Due to rounding up of ages in the 1841 census this makes his year of birth to be more likely 1812 rather than 1807. I have not yet managed to find him in 1861 to further clarify a year of birth as he was not at the address he was at in 1851.
The IGI shows a baptism for Joseph Travis to Benjamin & Mary at Milnrow 24 May 1812 and that is why I am thinking it is the Joseph I am looking for.
I would appreciate any advice on how to proceed further to confirm exactly who are the parents of Joseph Travis
Regards
dinkey
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Had a quick look on the census.
The Jas or James Travis son of Benjamin & Mary
c 5.9.1824 at Milnrow is probably the son of Benjamin & Mary Gartside who were married 4.7.1824 at St Chad's, Rochdale.
A Joseph Travis or Gartside was c 25.4.1819 at Milnrow son of Benjamin Travis & Mary Gartside (obviously their first child & illegitimate).
This would mean that the first Mary was a different Mary but doesn't necessarily mean that it was not the same Benjamin. Checking the parish register burials might narrow things down a little.
However there were several other Benjamins at Milnrow -
Benjamin & Alice c Elizabeth 1820
Benjamin & Ann c Ann 1821
Benjamin & Hannah c Mary 1823 (probably the same couple as above)
Marriage Benjamin & Hannah Wild m11.4.1819 St Chad's, Rochdale is a possible marriage for the above.
The marriage of Benjamin Travis to Mary Stansfield in 1805 at St May's, Oldham says he was from Moorgate, Shaw, Lancs
This ties in with the Joseph 1807, Ann 1808 & John 1810, children of Benjamin & Mary all baptised at Shaw.
There was also a Benjamin & Jane baptising children at Shaw at the same time as Benjamin & Mary so two Benjamins here.
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Sorry - typed census meant IGI!!
Regards
criggy
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I would recommend getting the OPRs on film - your local LDS may be able to help.
It has to be remembered that absolutely anyone could write in the church register and there is no prescribed method. Sometimes the mother isn't included at all, never mind the maiden name. The original entry may give further info such as a house name or occupation which isn't on the iGI. This way you may get extra clues to untangle the different families.
The IGI missing maiden name could be due to many reasons (not there as not important to the vicar, illegible, unknown - gap left to fill in later but never got round to it, missed by transcriber). In your case there may have been a change of vicar betwen 1818 and 1812? Who knows, you'd be able to tell from the OPR handwriting maybe.
I would say never discount anyone until you have a positive fact that confirms they are NOT related.
Ages can vary wildly from one census to another either through transcription error by the enumerator, by a modern transcriber, through "porky pies" (women don't like telling the truth even about their kids - it makes them luck older).
It is tough this untangling business but the satisfaction is great when you crack it!
Pam
;D
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To Boongie Pam, Criggie, Bel-jon68
I would like to thank you all for your input and suggestions to my queries. The consesus of opinion seems to be to look into the original parish records re burials to try and unravel this mystery. I am sorry if I have bored anyone to tears with my Joseph, Mary, Benjamin Travis saga but I am determined to crack this nut even if I go completely nuts in the process.
regards
dinkey
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Not boring at all! Let us know how you get on.
Pam
;D
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Dinkey
Good luck with your search. I have found this on the Lancashire Parish & Probate Records - don't know if it's your Joseph and Benjamin?
Lancashire: Ashton-under-Lyne, Blackley, & Chorley - Registers of St. Peter's, Ashton-under-Lyne; St. Peter's Blackley; and St. Lawrence's Chorley
Burials
1836
County: Lancashire
Country: England
24 Jul 1836 Joseph s. Benjamin Travis, AUL, 2w.
Bel
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bel-jon 68
I know my Travis family were not living in AUL until 1850 so I don't think the burial of Joseph s of Benjamin 1836 is linked.
Where did you access the Lancashire Parish & Probate Records as this may be useful to me?
Thanks
dinkey
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Dinkey
If you subscribe to ancestry.com, you can access the records online but I don't know how complete or reliable they are. On Rootschat there have been many debates about the merits or otherwise of ancestry.com - if you're not a subscriber, I'd have a look at what other people have said before deciding whether to sign up. I'm cancelling my sub shortly as I won't be able to spend much time doing family history research after the summer.
Bel