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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: XPhile2868 on Thursday 14 April 05 18:42 BST (UK)
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My great grandmother's brother Frederick Harling was killed at the age of 18 on the 30th of July, 1917 at Ypres and is buried there. The Commonwealth War Graves Commision (cwgc.org) says that he was a Private in the Loyal North Lancashire Regiment, 1st/5th Battalion.
Does someone know any sites about the LNLR or if there are any pictures/articles online which mention either the regiment or battalion.
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Hi XPhile2868
A few sites to try. I dont know what info they will supply
http://www.1914-1918.net/loyals.htm
http://www.regiments.org/regiments/uk/volmil-england/vinf-no/la-N5.htm
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=Loyal+North+Lancashire+Regiment&ei=UTF-8&qp_p=loyal+north+lancashire+regiment&imgsz=all&fr=slv1-&b=1
Regards
Ken
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Listed in Soldiers who died in the Great War
1/5th Battalion (Territorial Force)
Harling, Fred, b Chorley Lancs. e Preston, 201408, Pte, k in a F & F , 30/7/17
Harling, John, b Chorley Lancs, e Preston (Chorley), 243285, Cpl, k in a F & F, 12/9/18
Don't know if John is any relation but put him down just in case.
Regards
Jean
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Just been using this information again. What is an F + F?
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France and Flanders!!
Annie ;)
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looking for information of my grandmother's brother who died in WWI
John William CLARK
The Loyal North Lancashire Regiment, Ist. Bn.
died 06/03/1915
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Hi etc (you know me as Stephen Smith)
Here he is (although I'm sure I've sent you this before)
Name: CLARK
Initials: J W
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: The Loyal North Lancashire Regiment
Unit Text: 1st Bn.
Date of Death: 06/03/1915
Service No: 4436
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: XIX. D. 9.
Cemetery: BERLIN SOUTH-WESTERN CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=895272
Stephen :)
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I think there is a member here who has Boer War records, so if he was actually in that war they may be able to find him.
Stephen :)
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My great grandad was in the loyal north lancashire regiment 5th. I have 2 scans of photos but am not sure how to upload them to you.
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etc,
The service record for J W Clark, 4436 is on Ancestry, for FREE, at the moment. ;)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/04p1/
Phil
Whoops; just seen the date of the post ::)
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My granddad Peter Hughes 2806,406426 was in th 1st Loyal North Lancashire Regiment - I believe he was in the Boer War - have tried to find a record of this, but no luck - I have found his medal record for WW1, but can't find a service record. Any information or help anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated
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Hi there,
I'm writing because I have a letter dated 14th August 1918 that I bought at an antique fair in the early nineties when I was about 12 or 13. I have recently refound it whilst looking through some old belongings and having had the war on my mind recently (my grandma, who was a nurse during the war, recently died and I have been given lots of family wartime letters etc) I decided that I would like to send this letter to someone who may have a connection to the writer.
His name was Edmond and he was transferred to the Loyal North Lancashires, 2nd Batt?. no. 30902, 15 Platoon 2? company BE7 France in 1918.
I have (?) anything that I am not sure of from the writing!
The letter is to his father and it asks after 'Lizzie' and 'Auntie Gracie' and he also requests some soldier's friend! He also asks after Harry Elden.
Please get in touch if this rings a bell and I will send you the letter - I know how special it is to have letters that have been sent by grandfathers or great-grandfathers,
Helen
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Hi there,
I'm writing because I have a letter dated 14th August 1918 that I bought at an antique fair in the early nineties when I was about 12 or 13. I have recently refound it whilst looking through some old belongings and having had the war on my mind recently (my grandma, who was a nurse during the war, recently died and I have been given lots of family wartime letters etc) I decided that I would like to send this letter to someone who may have a connection to the writer.
His name was Edmond and he was transferred to the Loyal North Lancashires, 2nd Batt(?). no. 30902, 15 Platoon 2(?) company BE7 France in 1918.
I have (?) anything that I am not sure of from the writing!
The letter is to his father and it asks after 'Lizzie' and 'Auntie Gracie' and he also requests some soldier's friend! He also asks after Harry Elden.
Please get in touch if this rings a bell and I will send you the letter - I know how special it is to have letters that have been sent by grandfathers or great-grandfathers,
Helen
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Hello Helen and welcome to Rootschat :)
He was Edmond Whitehead, Private 30902, 2nd Battalion, Loyal North Lancashire Regiment, (formerly 94379, Liverpool Regiment) and he was killed in action 28th September 1918.
Here is a link to the CWGC page: http://www.rootschat.com/links/055v/
Phil
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Thanks for the info on Edmond Phil. Very much appreciated,
Helen :)
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1901 Cencus, Parents as listed on the CWGC,
Grace age 9
Effie age 7
Elizabeth age 5 (Lizzie?)
Edna Louisa age 3
Edmond Knowles Whitehead, age 0 born Q1 1900 at Hanley,Staffordshire
116 Brailsford Rd
Rusholme
South Manchester,
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According to the 1901 cencus, Edmond Knowles Whitehead was born, 1900,Q1, in Hanley,Staffordshire,and had 4 sisters,
Grace aged 9
Effie " 7
Elizabeth " 5 (Lizzie?)
Edna Lousia " 3
Brian
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Thanks Brian,
I checked the census too and found him but I didn't know the details of the sisters.
It might be worth me checking to see if I can find any descendants of the sisters.
Thank you again
Helen
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Hello,
I am trying to track down my great, great grandfather, who served in the Loyal North Lancs in the First World War. However, all I know of him is that his surname was Owen and that he lost a lung in a gas attack (the Somme, we think). We also think he was Welsh, although there is some doubt about this; he spent the rest of his life in Bolton.
Not much to go on, I know, but worth a shot...
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The Loyal North Lancs had over 10 Battalions.
Was going to suggest you try WWI Service Records but without either a first name or initial will be a bit of a problem as I don't think you can search just using the Regiment's name.
Think the best way to find out is checking the birth certificate of one of his children. This at least would give you his first name plus his wife's name. Then check through the 1901 census records to find them.
When you find them it may show their son's birth place - providing they do not just put dow Wales :-\
Jean
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I'm trying to find any info on my Great Grand Father who I believe was in this regiment.
His name is James Moorhouse he came from Padiham, Lancs.
I've searched Ancestry but can't find anything :-[
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Cant see any James Moorhouse with LNL but there are 4 Herbert Moorhouse on the Medal Index Cards....There are Two James Moorhouse listed as EAST LANCASHIRE Regiment could he have been in this? Medal Index Cards only cover regiments he would have served overseas with so he may have transferred regiments before going to France?
Do you have any photos or medals for his cap badge his medals will have name.number and regiment on the rims.
Ady
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All the info I have was given to me by my mum but she wasn't very sure of any of it. I know there was a big family falling out when my aunt (mums sister, now dead) sold his medals to buy a carpet!
I do remember my grandma told me many years ago that he fought in the Boer war .
On the census 1901 Census he is described as - Soldier (Infantryman)
he is his head of family, age 35 and living at 21 James Street, Padiham with his wife Elizabeth and children Lily, Handel, Arthur, Louis and step daughter Emily Chisnall.
Any help would be gratefully appreciated.
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At 35 in 1901 he would have been pretty old for great war frontline service at nearly 50 (not unheard of though).He may not have served overseas in WW1 so no medal card...I think you need someone to check the Kings and Queens South Africa Rolls for LNL and Boer War Service hopefully youl find it.Have you found him on the 1911 census? If he was an army pensioner by then his record is likely to be at Kew..unless it was put in Great War Records then only 30% survive and are been put on ancestry now.
Ady
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Thanks for your help.
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hi everyone , i am new to the site and from what i have seen and read there are sum pretty helpful people on here , so here's hoping somebody can help me
find out more on my great grandfather, i have tried the ancestry website but they cannot offer me anything , if anyone can add anything to what i already know i would really appreciate it
his name was Pte. James ormerod , born in clayton-le-moors 1897 and joined the loyal north lancs regiment (when ? which battalion?) the musuem at fulwood barracks said he was later transferred to the kings own lancaster regiment (when ? which battalion? where?) he was awarded the british and victory medals, which meant he went overseas (when ? where ? and for how long?) I've also been told by family he'd been gassed by the germans , probably mustard gas or similar , he survived the war and died in 1962 , but had terrible chest and breathing difficulties throughout his later life
thanks again to anyone who can help
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I believe from what you have written that your g-g-father was Private James Ormerod who served as 27670 with the Loyals then as 51542 with the King’s Own (Royal Lancaster) Regiment.
His Medal Index Card on Ancestry does not report a Battalion with either regiment, so you would need to consult the medal rolls at Kew (not available online) to determine this. He does not have a “Date of Entry” to a theatre of war which is usually taken to indicate that a man did not go overseas prior to January 1916.
Service records for surnames “O” have not yet been loaded online by Ancestry and so again, without visiting Kew, there is no way of knowing if his service records are among the small percentage which have survived. He does not have any so-called “Pensions” papers. Without the service records, there’s no way of knowing the dates on which he joined, transferred or was discharged, I’m afraid.
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thanks stephen , much appreciated , do you or anybody else know what the M.G.C unit was , it seems i have a another ancestor who served with that unit?
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I'm trying to find any info on my Great Grand Father who I believe was in this regiment.
His name is James Moorhouse he came from Padiham, Lancs.
I've searched Ancestry but can't find anything :-[
You might find this site helpful
http://www.burnleyinthegreatwar.info/
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thanks stephen , much appreciated , do you or anybody else know what the M.G.C unit was , it seems i have a another ancestor who served with that unit?
MGC = Machine Gun Corps.
http://www.1914-1918.net/mgc.htm
Phil
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can any one please help me am trying to find out any information about my grandfather military service all i no he was in the loyal north lancashire regiment in the first world war one i obtained his medal card he was a pte and his regts no was 24447 and his name was christopher blundell he lived in whitley woods chorley lancs ,many thanks am new to this anything will help or where I can obtain more info
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Hi
I have the British War Medal and Victory medal for PTE Richard W Jump, Loyal Nth Lancs Rgt- he is not related to me at all and I would like his medals to go to relatives-if anyone knows more about him, please drop me a line
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You might like to try posting that here too,
http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/
I have someone in that Reg, sadly it's not him - so I hope you find the right family. I for one would be delighted if someone contacted me with such a wonderful gift.
Ann
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HI im looking to see if i can find out about what my granddad did in WW2. he was in the Loyal North Lancashire Regiment, i know no more apart from his name is William John Aiken married to Mary Joan Aiken.
x
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Hi,
You'd probably be best starting a new thread for that, or it'll get lost in here. Go to the home page and search for the military segment. Putting Loyal North Lancs in the subject title will probably attract those who have interests in the regiment. Hope it helps
Regards Ann
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can anybody tell me where the 2nd/4th loyal north lancs regiment was around march 1918
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The first major offensive that they appear to have been involved in in 1918 is the Battles of the Lys (9th April onwards). If you can find anything on the build up to Lys for 57th Division you may be lucky.
The war diary is at Kew in WO 95/2978 and covers from Feb 1917 to April 1919.
Unfortunately it hasn't been digitised yet.
Phil
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thanks forester , my gt grandfather was admitted to wharncliffe??? military hospital may 18th 1918 after suffering a gas attack i was hoping for some clue as to where it could of happened , what do you think the timescale would be from being injured in battle , to getting back to a british hospital
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Firstly, apologies for mis-leading you. Only 57th Division's artillery was involved in Lys.
http://www.1914-1918.net/57div.htm
As far as time taken to return to the UK, in both the cases I have studied, it was within a week.
There's a bit on Wharncliffe's history here:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/A2A/records.aspx?cat=199-nhs3&cid=0#0
Phil
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Hello
I am trying to find out about my Grandfather in the Great War
T4/027564 Dvr. T Blunden
Army Service Corps and Loyal North Lancashire Regiment
He died in 1938 and I never knew him and I do not have a single photo of him which is rather sad.
I am interested in his service record as I haven't a clue as to why someone who lived and enlisted in the Army Service Corps in Kingston, Surrey would end up in the Loyal North Lancashire Regiment.
Any advice would be welcome.
Thanks
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I found a few records of men with similar LNL service numbers and they were all transferred to LNL around mid-November to early December 1917. Mainly to 1/5th and 4/5th Battalions.
Amongst them were two ASC men, 28971 and 28990. They were both compulsory transfers. The stamp on both records is identical.
Phil
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Thanks Phil
There is so little I know of him, all I have is his medals, it would have been good to find out more.
Jan
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Have you tried looking at his service records on ancestry
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Yes, I got his medal card from Ancestry and that's all it had, apart from another service number of T/3/027564. My dad was 15 when his father was knocked down and killed in 1938. He remembers him saying he worked with horses in the Great War and he had his medals. That's it.
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In case you didn't know, the ASC "T" prefix is for Horsed Transport. The 3 and 4 are for 3rd and 4th New Armies.
Phil
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Thanks for that. There is an awful lot I don't know, that's why I'm on this site.
So am I correct in assuming that T (T1,T2,T3 & T4) - (horse)"Transport", Army Service Corps means he was in the ASC of the Loyal North Lancashire Regiment not as well as?
I just need to get the details correct on his plaque .
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The Army Service Corps is completely seperate from the Loyal North Lancs, which was an infantry regiment.
There is no way that I am going to be able to explain it and make any sense, so I suggest you have a look at the Long Long Trail until some-one more lucid comes along :)
http://www.1914-1918.net/
You will find a link to the ASC and if you click the Infantry regiments link, there is a further link to the LNL.
Phil
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I have a photo of about 20 men of the 2nd/4th battalion of the LNL taken in february 1917 , i got it from Fulwood Barracks in the hope that my Gt Grandfather would be on it , i have tried posting it on here but i think the file is just too big , it would be nice to share the photo and maybe someone can recognise their ancestor , if anyone is clever enough to be able to reduce the photo and post it please send me a PM with your e-mail address
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Hi
My Great Uncle was:
Edwin Adams born 1884 in Shelton Stoke on Trent Staffordhire.
He married to Esther Simpson in 1907 and had daughters Olive 1907 and Matilda 1911.
I found his grave in Hanley Cemetery (Stoke on Trent)
He appears on the CWGC as ADAMS , E Private 27474 26/10/1920 35 The Loyal North Lancashire Regiment United Kingdom 27391. STOKE-ON-TRENT (HANLEY) CEMETERY
So it seems that the body may have been brought back to Stoke long after his death or it may be an empty grave! (is this likely?)
One source seems to think he died in 1918 and one in 1919. (Both very vague)
I have tried to find out about his death for several weeks now both on line and through the microfilm records of the Staffordshire Sentinel for 1918, 1919 and 1920 with no success in BDMs or war news.
The L N Lancs Reg seem to have served all over and the 7th battallion was disbanded in February 1918
Any help would be greatly appreciated
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Aroya
It looks like he died at Home in 1920 you can apply for death cert to confirm it Soldiers (apart from a few in the early days) were buried near to the battlefields and not returned home unlike today.
Also a lot of men are mentioned on family gravestones as having been Killed in Action
CWGC cut off date was 1921 for Great War...he must have died of War Effects as he is remembered by CWGC.
Ady
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Are you sure this is your man he was called Edmund according to the National Archives enlisted March 1915 and was discharged April 1917 sick....he would have been awarded a pension.
His mum wasnt Harriet and brother William by any chance?
Ady
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Hi mmm It is definitely not Edmund Adams who was dismissed from the North Staffordshire Reg as unfit. This is a CWGC headstone not a family grave but your I had thought about the death certificate option.
Thanks for your help
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if he died of illness after discharge you may not get an obituary just a quick entry in the papers death listing
Also check the anniversary of his death in 1920 for a few years after to see if any of the family have put anything in the "in memoriam" page
Ady
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Thanks Ady
I am still rolling on through the Sentinel microfilms. I'll let myou know if I turn anything up
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I have now established beyond reasonable doubt that ADAMS , E Private 27474 26/10/1920 35 The 7th Bat Loyal North Lancashire Regiment buried in Hanley Cemetery IS my great uncle. Though the grave is in Stoke on Trent, the only death certificate that fits with his age is not him.
On the Great War Forum I noticed a case that might have relevance:
An Arthur Albert Coulton enlisted into the 6th (Reserve) Battalion of the North Staffordshire Regiment in1914 (which would be the first likely signing on regiment for Edwin). On 3rd September 1916, Coulton was transferred to the Loyal North Lancashire Regiment for overseas duty, being allocated a new Loyal North Lancashire number of 27349. This is very close to that of Edwin Adams. He joined the 4th Reserve Battalion of the LNL Regiment, but this was only for records purposes, being almost immediately transferred to the 7th battalion on 21st September 1916 for active service in France
It is likely that he did die back in England so I now have to find out where to get a death cert!
I still have found no service record or medal card either for the North Staffs or the LYN. Are there any instances of missing medal cards?
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Hi
maybe an idea to confirm the burial date is correct by asking someone to look up the burial on maybe the NBI or other database
If you posted on the Staffs site for a burial lookup you may get a confirmation ;)
Its a confusing one I cant see him on BMDs but he may have been mis-transcribed -yes seen the age on the BMD entry??
Ive just had a DC back for a lad im researching who died away from home in a sanatorium but his body returned to hometown for burial.
He's out there somewhere..keep searching. :)
Ady
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Thanks for the encouragement Ady
Roy
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hi
i'm trying to find information on my grandad john steven hutchinson bn 1895 in hindley,wigan and died 1968 in shrewsbury.
i have contacted the resources library in wigan who say that there is a column in the wigan observer dated 15/9/17 stating that a john hutchinson from hindley wigan was injured but returned to active service.
it states his regimental number was 240206 and he was a lance corporal in the loyal north lancashire regiment.
i am guessing this is my grandad.
my mum doesn't know much about his involvement in ww1 but apparently he was in france and was injured twice by gas.
there are no records held by my family.
after the war he ran his own window cleaning business in hindley and later moved to blackpool.
he later moved to crewe then shrewsbury working for the sentinel works-a rolls royce based company producing wagons/trains or similar.
many thanks for any assistance
alan
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Hi there and welcome
i would try ancestry first , from his name and service number you should be able to find his medal index card , it will show his regiment and medal allocation and depending on when he joined it will tell you which theatre of war he first entered , after that if his service records have survived they will also be on ancestry , this will give you some more info on when / where he joined , his address at the time , his height/weight etc etc
there is also the option of contacting the museum at fulwood baracks , preston who may be even to help you further
my great granfather was also in the loyals and there is a very good book available (see link)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/mn/search/?keywords=loyal%20north%20lancashire&tag=googhydr-21&index=stripbooks&hvadid=10152040126&ref=pd%5Fsl%5F5vy05r7mdl%5Fb&rd=1
regards
watters2831
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I can't find any WW1 info about my Grandfather,Richard Mead Hamer, all I know is that he was in the Lancashire Loyals. He was born in 1899 and was living in Darley Street, Bolton at the outbreak of the great war. I know this because his Brother Harold signed up for the Royal engineers.
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The only medal card to a Richard Hamer serving in the Loyals is here - http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1262&iid=30850_A000674-01902&fn=Richard&ln=Hamer&st=r&ssrc=&pid=1065030
Ancestry WW1 records are free until Tuesday so you should try and find his service record or pension record.
Ken
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looking for information of my grandmother's brother who died in WWI
John William CLARK
The Loyal North Lancashire Regiment, Ist. Bn.
died 06/03/1915
Hi,
John William Clark (4436) died during the typhoid epidemic at Wittenburg POW camp of 1914/15. He had been captured at Givenchy on 22/12/14. http://www.loyalregiment.com/4436-pte-j-w-clarke-l-n-lan-r/
Regards,
Paul
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Hi,
Did you ever manage to get the photo loaded on this site? My father Thomas McLoughlin born Oct 1900 Blackburn. Lancs was in the army towards the end of WW1 but I have never been able to find what the Regiment was. My Thomas was the son of Thomas born 1867 in Chorley & Mary Emma (Snape) - they married in 1891 & had numerous children all born either Chorley or Blackburn.
Cheers,
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No , i think the file is just too large , if you send me a PM with your e-mail address i could try e-mailing it to you
coincidently i also had a ancestor Thomas McLoughlin born in Blackburn who died in WW1 , his name is on the Menin gate
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Hi
Atina - you will need to make 3 posts on Rootschat in order to be able to use the PM system...If you reply to this that will be 3
Milly
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Hi there,
I'm writing because I have a letter dated 14th August 1918 that I bought at an antique fair in the early nineties when I was about 12 or 13. I have recently refound it whilst looking through some old belongings and having had the war on my mind recently (my grandma, who was a nurse during the war, recently died and I have been given lots of family wartime letters etc) I decided that I would like to send this letter to someone who may have a connection to the writer.
His name was Edmond and he was transferred to the Loyal North Lancashires, 2nd Batt(?). no. 30902, 15 Platoon 2(?) company BE7 France in 1918.
I have (?) anything that I am not sure of from the writing!
The letter is to his father and it asks after 'Lizzie' and 'Auntie Gracie' and he also requests some soldier's friend! He also asks after Harry Elden.
Please get in touch if this rings a bell and I will send you the letter - I know how special it is to have letters that have been sent by grandfathers or great-grandfathers,
Helen
Hi Helen
I know your post is from quite a while ago. I work at Edmond Whiteheads primary school and we are doing topic work about our pupils who lost their lives in the War. We have a memorial plaque up in school. It would be great to have any more info about Edmond or to be able to get in touch with his relatives to invite them to some of our events. I will look up whether Harry Elden also went to our school.
Gill Day
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Hi Gill
helenabel has not been active on Rootschat for a while so may not see your post. She should get a notification to say you have replied but only if she has not changed her registered email address. Fingers crossed she will see it and get back to you.
In the meantime...welcome to Rootschat and I hope you project goes well.
Milly (Armed Forces Moderator)
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Hello All
Apologies if I am posting in the wrong place here.
I have managed to get my Granddad's Service records from both wars.
He was in the Loyals throughout - 5th Regiment.
I am looking at them and have no idea where I start with working out what he did and where in WW1 ... there are lots of pages so I shall start at the beginning.
I can obviously see his enlistment details and dates he went to France / wounded / returned to front etc but how do I find out where he was posted etc.
I am going in circles as I see 1/5TH 2/5TH etc !!
Many Thanks for any advice ... from a total novice.
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This is a photograph taken by The London Illustrated News.
The man on the left was my Grandfathers brother, he was killed on the 14 of August 1914.
He was in A Coy. 1st Battalion, The Loyal North Lancs. His name is on the Menim Gate Memorial.