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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: clynelish on Monday 03 January 11 23:28 GMT (UK)
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Hi clynelish here ,looking for info.about clyne family in menmuir area,around 1800 .
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat
Can you give us some christian names and birthyears please - the 1841 has 14 entries for that surname in Menmuir
Families were headed by James & Agnes & John & Elizabeth
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Thanks for your reply--my gggg granparents were John Clyne & Elizabeth Balfour .Their son William was baptised at Menmuir on 8 April 1826.Any other siblings ?William married Elizabeth ( Betsy) Stewart in Brechin on 22/12/1856 . Their family were --Ann Clyne born 14/9/1857--Charlotte Simpson Clyne born 27/12/1858--Margaret Clyne born 20/11/1860--Alexander Clyne ?--Jane or Jean Ann Clyne 7/10/1864--Daniel or Donald Gordon Clyne ?--Mary Clyne born 15/10/1868 .Elizabeth Stewart was born in Pitriffnie ,Banffshire about 1833.Her parents were ?Stewart and Ann Grant.Any information will be helpful .
Regards -----Clynelish
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There is only one entry for Clyne at Menmuir in Alison Mitchell's "Angus Monumental Inscriptions" - it is for a James Clyne, schoolmaster there from 1787, who died in 1817. On the west side of the stone, a William Clyne who died at Tigerton, is mentioned, with his wife, Isabella Keith (both are of more recent date).
The full text of James's side of the stone is quoted in Jervise's "Epitaphs", praising his care for his pupils, and saying he was a native of Strichen in Aberdeenshire and educated at Marischal College in Aberdeen.
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Thank you for this info.Have come across these names before but they dont tie in with info. that I posted.Tigerton is also mentioned in info that I have.
Perhaps William Clyne was born at Tigerton but baptised in Menmuir - short distance away .He was an agricultural contractor in Tigerton in 1856 .
Again thank you
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Hi
Is this your Clyne family in Menmuir in 1841 - all b Angus
John Clyne 45 occ just shown as Wright
Elizabeth 45
Mary 20
James 15
Alexander 7
Margie 5
Parish: Menmuir ED 2 Page 2 Line 730
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Thank you for latest info.Can you confirm that surname of Elizabeth is
Balfour.
If so this may be the family that i am looking for .
Many thaanks --clynelish
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Census entries do not show maiden names
From my first reply
Families were headed by James & Agnes & John & Elizabeth
As you said you were interested in John & Elizabeth - that is the only 1841 entry for those names
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Hi
Scotlandspeople OPR Births & Baptisms came up with the following children for a John Clyne no Mother's names.
Isabella 22-6-1817 Memuir Angus
Mary 12-7-1819 " "
Ann 22-6-1821 " "
James Balfour 20-10-1823 "
William 8-4-1826 " "
Marjory 20-9-1835 " "
There is a tree on A seems to be researching the same families (of course it could be yours)
Found a death on SP for a Elizabeth Balfour widow of John Clyne died 10 Mar 1858 at Redford, Carmyllie, the daughter of a Thomas Balfour and a Helen May buried in the Churchyard at Carmyllie. Her son-in-law James Smith was the informant.
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Hi Again,
In the 1851 census on A there a Elizabeth Clyne aged 58 staying with her son James aged 20 and his siblings Daved aged 9 and Marjory aged 15. Elizabeth seems to have been born in St. Cyrus, Kincardineshire.
Regards,
Weemanswife
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Hi,
Have come across another tree on A. Was looking for William & Elizabeth and it came up. If you go to Scotlandspeople Website and buy credits. You should be able to get the deaths of William & Elizabeth and you will get copies of the certificates which will give you some of the information you require.
Deceased on line has a William Clyne buried 3 Jul 1889 Newmonthill Cemetery, Forfar and Elizabeth Clyne buried 3 Jan 1918.
Regards,
Weemanswife
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I descend from the Clynes in Menmuir through John Clyne and his wife Elizabeth Balfour. I have a fair amount of information on the family and happy to share if you wish :)
Jane
(and save some SP look ups!)
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Hi all on this thread. I have a slightly unusual request. My great grandmother was born in Menmuir in 1864 and on her birth registration it states that she was illegitimate and her mother was Christina Anderson. The interesting thing is that on her birth registration she is named as Helen Anderson but on the 1871 census she is listed as Helen Clyne and is the granddaughter of Robert Anderson at the Smithy House, Balrownie, Menmuir, Angus, Scotland. On the 1881 census she is listed as Helen Cline at Little Brechin, Angus, Scotland as a domestic servant.
Her mother Christina was born in 1842 in Menmuir and lived with her parents until marrying in 1873 so my take on all of this information is that Helen's possible father was a member of the Clyne family of Menmuir. Can any of you help me with establishing whether this could be true or not. Have any descendants of the various Clynes mentioned in this thread done a DNA test that I can see if we any shared DNA.
I know this is a long shot but this has been my brickwall for years and I have not used this site for a number of years and thought I would give it a try.
Thanks for your consideration of this post.
Regards David Stephen
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It's quite common for an illegitimate child to be registered with the mother's surname but known throught her/his life by his/her father's surnam, so there is nothing remarkable in Helen being registered as Anderson but in the census as Clyne. And yes, it is a reasonable conclusion that Helen's father's surname was Clyne.
Finding out which Clyne, however, is not so easy.
Have you got your great-grandmother's marriage or death certificate (or both?) Do they give her father's name and occupation?
Another avenue you could try is the Kirk Session records. These often record unmarried pregnancies, and in most cases the errant father is named. The KS records are in the National Archives of Scotland. They have been digitied, but cannot yet be accessed online, so you either need to go to Edinburgh, or to one of the local archives that has access, or you need to get someone to go and look up the Menmuir KS records for you.
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Cowiedavid,
Just checking there was no RCE attached to the birth which you may have missed?
Annie
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Annie
I do not understand what you mean by RCE.
It is not a term I have come across in genealogy.
Can you explain what it means please.
Thanks
David
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Register of Corrected Entries.
Sometimes it becomes necessary to amend the information on a certificate. This is not done by adding the information to the original, but by making an entry in the RCE.
For example there may have been a court case to determine paternity, and the outcome of that would be in the RCE.
If this is the case, there will be a notice on the Scotland's People web site above the image of the certificate, saying "There are 1 corrections ....". Clicking on this link brings up an image of the relevant RCE page.
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Thanks for the explanation.
Unfortunately there is no RCE.
I have also scanned the Kirk Sessions records for the period after the birth on microfilm looking for action by the parish council to determine paternity but also no result. My local family history group got them from the USA for me.
There is only her mother (Christina Anderson) named on her marriage certificate but on her death certificate the father named is James Anderson who should have been James Duncan who was married to her mother 9 years after Helen's birth and he would only have been 12 when Helen was born. He was 10 years younger then Helen's mother and an apprentice blacksmith to her grandfather (Robert Anderson).
Hence the reason i am asking about any DNA tests as they can help establish connections around brick walls.
As I am in Australia it is often difficult to get around brick walls in the UK without a DNA test and lots of people in the UK do not get their DNA tested as they believe that they know what their ethnicity is but they can be surprised by the results of the test.
Regards
David
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Hi David,
I’ve spent a fair amount of time researching the Clyne family in Menmuir. From what I’ve found all of the Clynes in the Angus/Forfarshire area are related in some shape of form to James Clyne (schoolmaster) and Isabella Irvine. I descend from them via son John and his wife Elizabeth Balfour. I have a few Helen Clynes in my tree but none unfortunately in the timeframe you mention. I do though perhaps have some information on the male Clynes who could be potential fathers if you have more information about Helen?
As to the naming on her death certificate I wouldn’t take anything from that. It’s more likely that whoever registered the birth simply named the people he/she thought were Helen’s parents, ie mother and husband not knowing that the husband was not actually Helen’s father. The marriage certificate is more reliable given that Helen was actually around to give the information herself.
Kind regards
Jane
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Hmmmm.
There does seem to be a slight shortage of potential fathers in the 1861 census in Menmuir. Only two male Clynes old enough to have fathered a child in autumn 1863, both apparently married.
James Clyne, 57; Agnes Clyne, 50, and two children in ED1, page 5, and James Clyne, 36; Jane Clyne, 33 and 5 children in ED2, page 10.
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Jane & Forfarian
Thanks for your reply.
Helen was born in Menmuir on 9 August 1864 to Christina Anderson and no named spouse. Registered as illegitimate by her mother Christina. She was born at the Mill of Balrownie, halfway between Menmuir and Brechin where her mother's father was a blacksmith.
In the 1871 census, the first after her birth she was listed as Helen Clyne.
In the 1881 census, she was listed as Helen Cline, a domestic servant for Walter & Isabella Duncan.
I have not got her in the 1891 census as yet.
She married Randall Scott in Lethnot & Navar Parish on 14 Dec 1894 and signed as Ellen Anderson.
On birth/marriage/deaths of all her children she is named as Helen Anderson on the registrations.
She died in 1944 and was named as Helen Anderson on the registration.
Helen's mother, Christina is listed in the 1851/61/71 at the family home which was the smithy house at Balrownie.
I have done a lot of searching and cannot find any evidence about the father.
My guess is that it probably was one of the Clyne males but it cannot be proven unless a DNA test is done of any Clyne descendants.
Thanks for your interest
David
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Hi all, an update to my search for Helen Clyne Anderson's father has been resolved. One of my second cousins was able to get a parish register document that has been found by the people at OldScottish.com which states that David Clyne acknowledges his paternity. He was in Wales at the time of the documents in 1865. I cannot find him in any 1861 census. Thanks all for the suggestions.
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William Clyne, Circa 1847 - 1932
William Clyne was born on month day 1847, at birth place, to James CLYNE and Agnes CLYNE (born Grubb).
James was born Circa December 30 1802, in Menmuir, Angus.
Agnes was born circa 1811, in Leith.
William had 10 siblings: Alexander Grubb Clyne, Mary Ann Burns (born Clyne) and 8 other siblings.
William married Isabella Clyne (born Keith) on month day 1877, at age 30 at marriage place.
Isabella was born on September 17 1850, in Stracathro.
They had 8 children: William Clyne, Don Keith Clyne and 6 other children.
William lived in 1881, at address.
His occupation was occupation.
William passed away on month day 1932, at age 84 at death place.
Documents of William Clyne
William clyne
William Clyne in Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950
William Clyne was born on month day 1847, to James Clyne and Agnes Grubb.
William was baptized on month day 1847, at baptism place.
https://www.myheritage.com/names/william_clyne