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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Renfrewshire => Topic started by: Anderson on Tuesday 04 January 11 10:47 GMT (UK)
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I have the marriage & death cert. for husband & wife William SPEIRS & Jane WATSON who married 29 April 1870 at 25 Gauze Street Paisley. William died 24 June 1884 at Thorn Johnstone & Jane died 8 Nov 1911 at The Cottage ? Hosp. Johnstone. William's father was John SPEIRS & mother Jane FILLANS. Jane's father was William WATSON & mother Helen BUCHANAN. From the death cert. William should be born abt 1844 Johnstone & Jane abt 1848 at Thorn.Knowing an approx. year of birth of both William & Jane, I have searched Scotlands People for William in all parishes from a rediculous 1792 till 1854 & Jane from 1842 till 1854 with no result. Any idea's why they do not come up in any parishes at all. Not sure what the Thorn is. ( a street, road or an area) I tried on google earth but nothing with Thorn came up.
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this is the 1861 census no mention of Jane's mother Helen and this is in Paisley - Father wm house fainter ( painter)
William Watson 41
Christina Watson 15
Jane Watson 13
Robert Watson 10
William Watson 6
1881 census Paisley
William Speirs 42
Jane Speirs 33
Hellen Speirs 10
John Speirs 8
William Speirs 5
George Speirs 2
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Hi
Thorn is in Johnstone. It's a road. It goes uphill where the railway station is and ends at the road Junction where Elderslie starts (Elderslie is the village between Johnstone and Pailsey - where yours truly was born!)
Hopes this helps
Ann :)
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Hi Weemary & Ann,
Happy New Year to you both & thanks for your replies.
Weemary, the 1861 census would be another family as William was born abt 1840. The 1881 census is the correct family. Still wonder why I can't pick up their birth through Scotland People.
That tell's me why some of the census say's Thorn Hill Ann. Wonder why Thorn Rd doesn't come up on Google Earth.?
Anderson
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On Freecen there is an 1851 census Helen Watson age 40 widow at the Thorn with
daughter Janet age 11 and siblings. Think this may be a strong possibility. I've just also noticed there is also a daughter Jane age 5 as well as Janet, now that confuses things.
Liz
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Hi Anderson
I don't think Thorn Rd is there these days. Thorn Hill certainly is. Thorn Rd tho I'm sure would have been nearby when it existed. That particular part of Johnstone is at a fairly major road junction but it has been signficiantly redeveloped in recent times - a lot of the building now is 1960s mingled with tenements which would certainly have been built very late 1800s.
Next time I am home I will get some photos of it as it is now as makes it a lot easier to explain looking at it. But as you come out of Paisley thru Elderslie and you get to the Thorn pub the road splits into a V (in the V is the Thorn pub). To the left is the road which goes out thru Johnstone and Cochrane Castle towards the coast (Largs etc) and to the right the road goes downhill past the railway station into Johnstone town centre. the housing on the right hand side is a lot older than the left which is a 60s estate built for Glasgow overspill.
re the names Jane/Janet/Jean/jeannie/Jessie - all interchangeable just to confuse it even more!
Ann :D
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If you google on old-maps co. uk you can see a map for the Thorn 1850s. Don't think there was ever a Thorn Rd. Thorn was at one time more a hamlet. On the 1851 Census most of the addresses just state address Thorn or Thorn, Overton or Thornhill. Old Road in Elderslie which still exists comes under the Thorn also in 1851 census. On the map where Thornhill House is now where
Thorndene is.
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I see what you mean about the Thorn. There is a lot on Google Earth of Thorn this and Thorn that. In 1851 shows John Speirs and family living at Thorn Hill House. In 1861 at Thorn Symingtons Ld (whatever that is) & in 1841 they were in High St. So they didn't move too far. In 1841,51 John was a coal miner. In 1861 a coal agent. Do you have any idea where the coal mine (s) would be from where they lived?
Anderson
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Local knowledge and painful experience comes in handy! (Little did I know this when was having the agony 25+ years ago! More re the agony below)
The pits were looking at the V junction where the Thorn pub sits in the middle as described previously to the left hand side of the road (with Paisley and Elderslie behind you)
The pain? I lived in a house built in the 1930s which was over old mine workings and potential subsidence became an issue when I wanted to sell up and go to London to live and there was a lot of umming and ahhing when I came to sell it in 1984 about mine workings underneath. It all got sorted! It was fine!
But Paisley central library has very good maps of all the old mine workings - I made very good use of them at the time!
Just before you get to the V junction (about 100yds before) on your left the road goes up a hill that was the mining area (basically where Johnstone Castle housing estate is and the top part of Elderslie. Closest I can think of as the roads are now is check out Auchenlodment Road on google maps and that was kind of the nub of it.
Ah happy days!
Ann ;D
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Thanks for all your help. We hope to get to Scotland, Ireland & England this year and hope to see if I can trace any info on people who worked at the mines.
Anderson
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When you do visit Elderslie/Johnstone, the Morrison supermarket in Johnstone has a small room set aside within the supermarket as a museum which is very interesting.
Liz
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Thanks Liz, I see that there is a local family history group but the web site didn't have contact details. Just wanted to find out if there were other Speirs or Watson family members around the area today & if any are doing their family tree.
Anderson
PS
Was it an open cut coal mine Ann?. You were lucky your house didn't fall into the mine by the sounds of it.
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Hi Ann,
I am a brand new member - not even sure if I am doing this right. Anyway, your name has come up with respect to the FULTON surname and you seem to have links with the Johnstone area. Do you have any links to Fultons who lived in Johnstone and came originally from Kilbarchan and before that from Ireland?
My maternal grandfather was James Fulton and he was born in Johnstone and lived in the Thorn area. His father was William, also born in Johnstone. His father was Joseph, born in Kilbarchan in 1826, and he was the son of Hugh Fulton, born in Ireland around 1790.
I have information on several more Fultons who came from Ireland but I can't link them although I have strong suspicions that some are related. This is what I'd like to pursue.
If you have any interest in this or can help me in any way, please let me know.
Thanks,
AllanWD
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Hi AllanWD,
I am a new member to this wonderful platform.
Presently I am investigating Lemon and McAteers of Co Tyrone Ireland and I noticed your post. Specifically, I have discovered 2 Fulton's in my tree.
My paternal gr father***married in 1852 Dorothea Fulton, daughter of Hugh Fulton
Also discovered in same family a marriage in 1852 between Mary Jane McAteer and William Fulton, son of Hugh Fulton.
I have very little information on Hugh Fulton and his family. If you are interested in sharing, please let me know
thanks Virsonlia