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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cornwall => Topic started by: dunkmac74 on Thursday 06 January 11 14:11 GMT (UK)
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Hi there all!
I have a couple of questions on the Paul family from the Paul,Newlyn and Mousehole and surrounding areas and im hoping someone may be able to help
Firstly let me explain my connections to the Paul family
My GGG Grandparents were married in Newlyn st Peters in 1866
William McDonald mariner
Mary Ann Paul spinster
Grooms Father John McDonald labourer
Brides father John Paul labourer
witness Jabez Shepherd
Over the xmas holiday me Dad showed me Mary Ann Paul,s lineage back to 1633 using parish records he looked up whilst in Cornwall on holiday a few years back it seems her family went from using the surname Powle,Pawl and finnally Paul over the years, the record from 1633 says Edvardo(s) Paul son of Nathanelis and Maria ? Im just wondering as the name Edvardos is Spanish that maybe the family originally came from Spain and im curious to find out if anyone else has done any research that may suggest this? Also (another question!) My father also came across a family of Paul,s living on the Channel islands in 1881 discribed as travellers would this be the same family as Mary Anns i wonder? Any help or info or indeed suggestions would be really appreciated
many thanks Dunc
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Most parishes registers were in Latin at that time and so the names would, I think, be Edward, son of Mary and Nathan.
David
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Good thinking David!
I Never thought of that it would make sense,i was just curious in case any of the other members with Paul relatives had looked into it,as for the Paul family travellers i think that one of the Boswells married into the Pauls but apart from what my Dad saw on the channel island records i know nothing else or even if they are relatives of Mary Ann
Dunc
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Paull is a very popular name in the Cornish area, I have some from Kenwyn and Kea in the 1700's. The only way of connecting the Mary you mention is by tracing her line back. I am afraid it is dangerous to jump to the conclusion that because they have the same surname they must be related
Good luck in your research
Jackie ;)
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Thanks for reply Jackie ;)
I think i should of made my post a bit clearer my family have traced Mary Ann Pauls ancestors back as far as we could and ended up with Nathanelis and Marias marriage and the birth of thier son Edvardos in Paul in 1633 after there were marriages into the Hitchen and Hebbard/Hibbard families as well as others my family of Paul were found at first in Paul then Newlyn then Penzance and Helston as Newlyn is only a 2 mile walk from Penzance and vice versa im pretty confident that the majority of Pauls found in this small area would be related,although i have the marriage info of the above im not sure of offspring so thats why im trying to find if the following are in deed relatives of Mary Ann and her father John Paul the info i have is as follows
oct 30th 1883 Helston
William James Paul marries Agnes Mary Boswell
William James paul born oct 31st Penzance parents to William Harvey Paul and Mary Ann Fry both born Penzance
These are William Paul and Agnes Mary Boswells offspring all born Penzance apart from one born in Plymouth
Abraham Paul b 1885
Robert John Paul b 1886
William Henry Paul b 1888
Francess Ann Paul b 1889
Beatrice Maria Paul b 1891(she married Wisdom James in penzance 1914 son of Henry James and Selina Smith)
Robert John Paul b 1892
John Paul b 1893
Stanley Paul b 1897
Nelson Paul b 1901
Bridget Paul b 1904
Gordon Paul b 1904
Andrew Paul b 1905
Not sure if there is a link between John Paul or Mary Ann and the 2 William Pauls any advice or info would be really appreciated
Thanks alot
Dunc
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I would also point out that the Sapnish were no strangers to Cornwall. Also. most of Mousehole, just down the road from Paul, was burned to the ground in a Spanish raid in 1595 - and it's not unusual for 'interlopers' to settle. :)
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Interested in the Mary Ann Fry/William Harvey Paul connection.
Mary Ann was actually born in the Breage area, bp Breage 1/5/1839, although the family moved back to the Sancreed/Newbridge area afterwards - they are both near Penzance. Mary Ann's mother, Mary Ann Hall was from the Madron area, again near to both Penzance (which was in Madron Parish) and Newbridge/Sancreed.
Mary Ann Fry was a sister to Martha Fry, my husband's great grandmother and we have been trying to find out the descent line of the Pauls for a while. Are you descended from this line?
Would love to hear from you if you are.
Incidentally, Paul is also a parish as well as a village, was called Pawle at one time and the parish includes both Mousehole and Newlyn. So, people who have the birthplace of Paul were more often than not actually from Mousehole or Newlyn as Paul refers to the parish in most instances.
Jean
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okay everyone, especially dunkmac74 & dairymaid; I think I have some common heritage to share with you, and I am equally interested in learning some bits on your lineage of the common thread too. So far as I can tell at least. Let me start by saying that my surname is Paul, and I have some common relatives (ancestors) with you. I will need to locate some of the research I have tucked away, but I do remember this much; My research did have the names of William Harvey Paul parents and I do recall his mother was born a (ggggm)Hall. I am from the (gggf)William Harvey Paul & (gggm)Mary Ann (nee) Fry family, and the next in line for me was (ggf)William James Paul & (ggm)Agnes Mary (nee) Boswell; and next was (gf)Andrew (Ephriam Samuel) Paul & Mary Ruth (nee) Greenslade;, and next after that is (f)Andrew Paul & (m)Hilda Ruth (nee) Baker; and then me b 1947 Andrew R Paul, married twice with 6 children in total. The Boswell side has some colorful characters as well such as the well known Granny Boswell (b Ann Kingston) wife of Ephriam Boswell. I don't know anything about the other Paul branches at all for instance. William Harvey Paul had siblings such as Joseph H Paul, George C Paul, Margaret J Paul, Ida May Paul, Clara Paul that I know nothing at all about. Other bits of info; Also it is my understanding that the Boswell family were of Romany ancestory, but I think that the Paul side was Cornish (Gaelic). If you have anything at all to add please do, I am very interested to learn more. Thx. my email is (*)
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I am sending you a private e-mail
Dairymaid
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Good to hear from you dairymaid. Further to my earlier posts, I must add that I have made some computer contact with members of the William James Paul & Agnes Mary (Boswell) family descendants, and so did my parents personally face to face on a visit once. It is the generation past that being William James Paul's uncles & aunts that I know nothing at all about, but am interested in learning more of course.
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Hey Dunkmac 74
Nice to see that you are researching into the Paul family history. I have some common threads here. Some of the people you list in one of your later chats, are ancestors of mine. Take a look at what I added within this particular forum. You will notice names you have mentioned. All of the people you have mentioned William James Paul *& Agnes Mary (Boswell) Paul plus all their children are all relatives of mine. My grandfather Andrew was one of the youngest in this family. William Harvey Paul's father was named John Paul and he was married to a woamn whose maiden name was Hall. Hope we can sort some info out. Talk to you later.
Andy
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try....ann yeoman_ genealogy. com and or google roy paul ,rhondda. much info regards " paul" surname .cornish family , photographs ,family history and more....john paul , walter paul, queen st penzance. regards.
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Thanks for the research tips on the Paul family. It is an interesting project, and together- people helping people to learn the facts-its really very interesting-and historic. AND its family!! Thanks
Andy Paul
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Interested to know if either of you can tie my Mary Ann Paul or her Father John Paul in with the Boswells anyone come across her or him being possibly related or related by marriage?? Dunc
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I have connections between the Paul family and the Boswell family, and I have a Mary Ann Fry that married a Paul in my family tree, but we'd have to be more specific on dates. I noticed with other trees that there were some other marriages of Boswell family with Paul family relatives (at least once).
For me specifically it only happened the once directly (that I am aware of) when William James Paul married Agnes Mary Boswell, AND the generation before this, had William Harvey Paul married to Mary Ann Fry.
These are the only connections I have in my tree that could be close to what you may be referring to, but you need to be more specific on dates and names in order to put this together. thanks
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Regards the dates if you look at me first post all ive got is the first marriage 1866 to my 4x grandfather i stuck before then does this info ring any bels or the first names?
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I Had a look at your first post and I don't think I can help you on this right now, as I only got started recently and am back just about 5 or 6 generations and lots more to get done. Perhaps I'll return to your post later. Still a work in progress and still have to research dates etc, but so far back as the Boswell family goes I only know back to Abraham & Unity Boswell likely born late 1700s, with next generation Ephraim & Ann Boswell born early 1800s.
I have come across the reference that you made to Mary Ann Paul though with marriage 3 Sep 1866 listing the groom as William McDonald 29 mariner of Jack Lane (his father John McDonald-labourer) wed to Mary Ann Paul 28 of Jack Lane (her father John Paul labourer) witness Jabez Shepherd, Susan Warren.
My note on this at this point is; I have not found a connection to this part of the Paul family in my research so far. The furthest back I have proof for in my family tree is John Paul 1817-1860 And Margaret Harvey 1815-, and I have not found a connection so far past that point, nor is there a mention of Mary ann Paul within their children on a census.
So sorry I can't help you on this right now, but be sure I'll be back to you if I find anything on this. Happy hunting.
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Thanks for reply Pal and pleaes keep me posted if you do find a link just to add have you tried the website Romany jib they have a lot of info on the Boswell Gypsies census recors etc and they were very helpfull when trying to trace the Romany Gypsy ancestry on me Mas side,Thanks again for the reply Dunc
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For sure Dunc there is for sure some Romany that I am aware of in my family named Boswell, but I am not sure whether the Paul family just married into the Romany or not. Cheers
Andy
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Mary Ann Paul,s lineage back to 1633 using parish records he looked up whilst in Cornwall on holiday a few years back it seems her family went from using the surname Powle,Pawl and finally Paul over the years, the record from 1633
many thanks Dunc
I stopped to read this thread when I noticed the surname origin was being queried. I used to live near a village called "Paull" on the bank of the River Humber in East Yorkshire and was surprised to see that a same sounding name is also a place name in Cornwall.
I think you could have a couple of origins for the PAUL surname. It could either be the Latin name for small or humble to describe the man when he chose a surname. Or it could be a surname of where the first man worked or lived when surnames were handed out - the place could be "Pawl", the old name for a fort, probably one of those defensive earthen works which used to be heaped & piled up. Below are some other dialect spellings which mean the same thing.
Pil, Pile, see Pilling ; peel, pil or fort, (a heap or pawl in Welsh.)
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This thread has wrong information on the parents of William Paul.
William James Paul parents are Robert Paul and Frances (most likely Frances Pike)
Christening
3 Jan 1863
Sithney, Cornwall, England
Marriage: 30 October 1883
Helston, Cornwall, England
Agnes Mary Boswell
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I don't know if I can be any help to anybody....
My great uncle was Jimmy Paul. He was married to my Gran's sister Florence.
Firstly, in repose to the last comment... on my tree I've got Agnes Mary Boterell 1889-1951 was married to William James Paul 1862-1948. Agnes Mary was the daughter of Lily Boswell and John Boterell. She was the grandaughter of Ephraim and Ann (Granny) Boswell. Of course though, I could be wrong.
It's a little confusing as I also have Agnes Mary Boswell 1863-1951 married to William James Paul. It seems that I may be wrong somewhere, but I guess there is the possibility there were 2 William James Pauls!
In the 1911 census my uncle Jimmy's family were listed as ''Gypsy' living in a gypsy caravan in Sancreed.' Uncle Jimmy never talked about his heritage. I never knew about it until shortly before he died. Uncle Jimmy and Auntie Florence were lovely, lovely people.
Uncle Jimmy was born William James Paul in 1921. He died in 1912. His parents were Thomas Stanley Paul born 1898 and Fiance James 1897. I believe Fiance also came from a gypsy family.
Grandparents were William James Paul 1862-1948 and Agnes Mary Boswell daughter of Ephraim and Ann Boswell. Incidentally, from what I can work out Granny Boswell was 45 when she had her first child and 51 when she had the last. I have always wondered if they were actually her children. I know that girls in the community came to her for 'help' when they were 'in trouble' and I wonder if this is why she became known as 'Granny'
Uncle Jimmy's Great grandparents= William H Paul and Mary Ann Fry. Great great grandparents John Paul and Margaret ? (Hall? Harvey?) ggg grandparents = John Paul 1790 and Elizabeth.
I have always thought the family must have originally come from the village of Paul/Mousehole, but have never proved it.
I hope this might help somebody.
Helen
PS... my research could be wrong!
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Look....
There are two William James Pauls...
Births Dec 1862 (>99%)
PAUL William James Helston 5c 221 Scan available - click to view
Births Mar 1864 (>99%)
PAUL William James Penzance 5c 379 Scan available - click to view
Births Mar 1889 (>99%)
Bottrell Agnes Mary Penzance 5c 250 Scan available - click to view
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1911 census
Event Date 1911
Event Place Sancreed, New Bridge S O, Cornwall, England
County Cornwall
Parish Sancreed
Sub-District St Just In Penwith
Registration District Penzance
Gender Male
Age 49
Marital Status (Original) MARRIED
Occupation LISENCED HAWKER
Birth Year (Estimated) 1862
Birthplace Helston, Cornwall
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Line 1
Page 1
Household
Role
Sex
Age
Birthplace
William James Paul Head M 49 Helston, Cornwall
Agnes Mary Paul Wife F 49 Penzance, Cornwall
Frances Ann Paul Daughter F 21 Helston, Cornwall
Beatrice Maria Paul Daughter F 20 Helston, Cornwall
Robert John Paul Son M 19 Penzance, Cornwall
Eliza Annie Paul Daughter F 15 Helston, Cornwall
Tomas Stanley Paul Son M 13 Scanreed, Cornwall
Manuel Gordon Paul Son M 12 Scanreed, Cornwall
Nelson Curner Paul Son M 10 Scanreed, Cornwall
Efrem Andrew Paul Son M 5 Penzance, Cornwall
Name William James Paul
Event Type Census
Event Date 1911
Event Place Penzance, Penzance, Cornwall, England
County Cornwall
Parish Penzance
Sub-District Penzance
Registration District Penzance
Gender Male
Age 42
Marital Status (Original) MARRIED
Occupation SERPENTINE MANUFACTURE
Birth Year (Estimated) 1869
Birthplace Penzance, Cornwall
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Line 1
Page 1
Household
Role
Sex
Age
Birthplace
William James Paul Head M 42 Penzance, Cornwall
Annie Paul Wife F 42 St Just, Cornwall
Daisy Williams Adopted daughter F 17 Helston, Cornwall
Stephens Rogers Lodger M 60 St Agnes, Cornwall
Adelaide Rogers Lodger F 50 Brixton, Surrey
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Just reading thru some old threads from years back and still confused if my Mary Ann Paul mentioned did ever tie in with te Boswells or even if her family may of ? Still confused! 😮😀
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Could Paul originally be Powell? The Powells used to be a large, important traveller tribe similar to the Boswells. Richard Edmunds has written a section about them in being early travellers of note. Travellers often married their own kind, so with Boswells marrying Pauls, they were probably considered important, maybe as Powells, with that knowledge coming forward as Paul. They did change their surnames to blend in with the locals; and often had several aliases.