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Research in Other Countries => Immigrants & Emigrants - General => Topic started by: Trees on Friday 07 January 11 14:12 GMT (UK)
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I have lost a family after the 1851 census in Bideford but one of the daughters turns up in Hamilton, Ontario, in 1871 with children apparently born there from 1855.
Is there anywhere on line where I can look for them between 1851 and 1871 was there a census about 1861 for example in Ontario? are there ships passenger lists about that time FindMyPast lists start too late,
the family in question is
Thomas Bale1806 and children Sarah 1835, Elizabeth 1838,Mary 1842, Prudence 1845 and Thomas 1848 all born Bideford Devon
Sarah marries William JAMES born 1831 Devon
1871 Sarah is a widow with children William Henry(1856), Alfred Thomas(1858)and Edwin (1865) she also has an Elizabeth A (1862) who appears on the 1881 census but not the 1871
Any help will be welcome
Thank you
Trees
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Incoming lists into Canada weren't kept regularly until 1865, but there was a 1861 census for Ontario.
https://www.familysearch.org
- there are death records here for Elizabeth Ann Gibbs (parents William James and Sarah Bale) and Alfred Thomas James (same parents).
The 1861 census (index only) for Ontario can also be found here although I can't see them at first glance.
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/census-1891/001081-119.01-e.php
- shows Sarah James still in Hamilton, aged 55, with Elizabeth (now Gibbs).
http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/ shows her with the Gibbs in 1901 and gives you an emigration year - 1853.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wjmartin/wesleyan.htm
- has baptisms for some possible James children (William Henry and a "Lavinia"? in 1859 - perhaps died young?)
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Many many thanks for this it is very useful
Apologies for my late reply
Trees
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Help there is something very strange going on with Lavinia JAMES
Found her baptism in Hamilton and then her parents turn up with her paternal grandparents in Stoke Damerel ion the 1861 census. Two of her brothers are there but no Lavinia. There is a death on Free BMD march qtr 1861
JAMES Lavinia Stoke D 5b 247
so it appeared that the child sadly died while they were visiting her grandparents
Next a contact has been to see the cemetery superintendent in Hamilton and has found a burial plot bought by William James
"William James (plot owner) with no date of death. Also there are Peter and Ann (no dates) two spots marked children (no dates) and Sarah James 15-11-19 (That would be Sarah BALE) since her death date is 13-11-19. (No obituary that I ever found)
This then led to finding
Lavinia, daughter of William and Sarah James died 25th March 1861 aged 1 year 8 months; Lavinia 2nd died 12th may 1866 aged 1 month 7 days
In loving memory of Peter JAMES who departed this life Apr 18, 1863 aged 60 years 8 months (verse); Ann James (wife) died 11th May 1880 aged 76 years, 5 months. 3 days (verse).
The administrator indicated that William and Sarah are very likely interred there but the information for William was not recorded given it was before 1870 and Sarah’s information is just noted on plot card."
so was Lavinia buried in Canada but died in Devon surely they did not take the body back to Canada or is that just a memorial stone with no interment or is the Devon death a red herring?
It looks like his parents returned with him can anyone find Ann James nee Brown on the 1871 census in Hamilton?
Trees ???
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There is an Ann James living with the Bennett family in Hamilton. Ontario 1871
John Bennett 48 Mary Bennett 42 Elizabeth Bennett 17
James Bennett 15 Henrietta Bennett 14 Edward Bennett 12 Eliza Bennett 10
Ann James 67 Born England. 1804. Widowed. Weslyan Methodist.
Regards
Sandra
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Perfect Sandra where did you find it? Her husband Peter died in 1863 I am surprised she isn't with her daughter in law Sarah. she too was widowed as William died in 1869 but she had 5 young children.
so sad to go all that way and not live long enough to enjoy it.
Do you think Lavinia is in the same grave or is just mentioned as a memorial on the stone?
Trees
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Elizabeth Ann JAMES born 1862 isn't with Sarah in 1871 but she was alive she married a Charles Gibbs she was with her mum in 1881 and 1891 she would only have been 9 in 1871
trees
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Sarah and Elizabeth both look to be in Hamilton Ontario in 1871
Sarah James 35 Born England 1836. Widowed. Wesleyan Methodist.
W H James 15 A T James 13 E A James 9
E James 8
I would think it was a memorial stone to acknowledge her with the rest of the family.
Regards
Sandra
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Hi Sandra many thanks
The new family Search site
https://www.familysearch.org/s/recordDetails/show?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fpilot.familysearch.org%2Frecords%2Ftrk%3A%2Ffsrs%2Frr_153088368%2Fp_173142499&hash=HloWXpZgU9zB10k5M56iYku8TUc%253D
has
Sarah James F 35
W H James M 15
A T James M 13
E James
IE William Henry b1855, Alfred Thomas b1958 and Edwin b 1853 no Elizabeth Ann and no age for Edwin
Where are you getting your version from it is much better?
Trees
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Hello Trees,
The first one you looked at was just the Index and not the full Census. I have noticed people being missed off on the family search site on a few occasions so that does'nt surprise me. If you send me a pm with your e-mail address I will forward a copy for you.
Regards
Sandra
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William Henry James Born 5 October 1855 in Hamilton, Canada Died 9 Jul 1905 in Wentworth, Ontario of Brights Disease. Married to Sophia James born 1857 Ontario. Had 4 daughters.
Alfred Thomas James Born 3 Nov 1857 in Hamilton, Canada Died 5 August 1937 Married 11 June 1877 to Elizabeth Maginnes Born 1858 Ontario. Had a son and daughter
Elizabeth Ann James Born 9 June 1861 in Ottawa Ontario Canada Death 9 Oct 1936 in York, Ontario, Canada. Married 23 Dec 1885 to Charles Gibbs Born 1861 USA. HHad a daughter.
Edwin James Born February 22, 1863 in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada Death October 21, 1940 in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada Married Jane Ann (Jennie) Bolton. Born April 5, 1863 in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada Death June 22, 1945 in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Had 1 son and 3 daughters. Two of the children died young - Edward b:1891 d:1894 at age of 2 yrs, 7 months, Meningitis - Ella (Twin Sister of Eva), b:1893 d:1900 Age 7 , Cholera Infantun.
Other Children that I have seen listed for the family:-
Lavina James 25 July 1859 in Hamilton Ontario Canada Death 25 March 1861 in Devonport, Devonshire, England.
Lavina James 15 July 1866 in Hamilton Ontario Canada Death 12 Nov 1866 in Hamilton Ontario Canada.
Emily James 21 July 1868 in Hamilton Ontario Canada Death 30 March 1869 in Hamilton Ontario Canada
Regards
Sandra
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This is all very useful many thanks I will pm you many thanks for your help.
Sarah James(nee Bale) went to Canada with her parents and several siblings and with her father's three brothers ...though they may not have all travelled together. I think she must have met and married William JAMES in Canada the first child William Henry being born in 1855 and from the 1901 census Sarah went first in 1853 she and William seem to have returned to bring his parents Peter and Ann James back to Ontario that was when the first Lavinia died. William JAMES died in 1869 in Hamilton aged just 28.The school teacher wrote a moving poem about the twin's death which was cherished by the remaining twin all her life so sad to loose a child and tragic for the little twin sister
Trees
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Hello Trees
Your most welcome. Please let us know if you require anything further on the families.
Regards
Sandra
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Now Thomas BALE(father of Sarah( Bale) James) had four brothers who also went to Canada William(1802) John (1804) Joseph (1812) and James(1815)
so far I have found James in 1881 and his death in 1904
I know he married Mary BEER they had 5 children before she died in 1861 in Bideford but I have been told he then married her sister Elizabeth in Canada shortly after they went He is a Widower in 1871 Is there any way of finding a marriage between Thomas Bale and an Elizabeth 1861-1871 in Ontario?
I will then need to start on the other brothers so stand by for a scream for help ;D
Interestingly James was a Congregationalist while Thomas was Methodist I wonder if the older brothers were Methodist and the first three went earlier with other Church members and James followed the brothers after his first wife died.
H.
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Ontario - Canada Marriages show:- James Bale. Born 1815 England. Aged 47 years. Resident in Hamilton. Married Elizabeth Sweet In Wentworth County on 5 th Sept 1862. Elizabeth was Born England and aged 49 years living in Hamilton.
Parents of James Bale were Joseph Bale and Prudence.
Parents of Elizabeth James and Mary Bur
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This looks to be the sister of Sarah Bale - Prudence Bale Born about 1844 England and aged 21 years. (Parents Thomas and Sarah) Resident in Hamilton. Married George W Partridge Aged 23 years - 20th September 1865 in Wentworth County. (Parents of George were Jesse and Elizabeth)
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Prudence and George appear to be in White Bear, Ramsey, Minnesota in 1900
George W Partridge 56 Born March 1844 England. Immigrated 1866. NA. Wholesale Wall XXX
Prudence Partridge 53 Born July 1846 England. Married 1865. Had 1 child and 1 survives. Immigrated 1866
Theresa Drutschmann 20 Servant.
Also listed in 1885 St Pauls Ward 3 -
George or GW Aged 42 years - Prudence Aged 41 years and Florence Aged 5 years born Minnesota
and in 1895 - George, Prudence and Florence:-
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0bd6/
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George and Prudence St Paul Ward 4, Ramsey, Minnesota in 1910
George W Partridge 68 Married for 42 years. Wallpaper Dealer.
Prudence Partridge 63 Had 1 child and 1 survives.
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Florence Partridge married J. Wilbur C. Van Kirk 24 th April 1900 St. Paul, Ramsey, Minnesota
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0bd7/
The couple appear together in White Bear, Ramsey, Minnesota in 1900 (next door to the parents of Florence)
Wilbur C Van Kirk 29 Born Jan 1871 Illinois. Coin traveller
Florence M Van Kirk 20 Born dec 1879 Minnesota. Parents Born England.
By 1910 they have a son - living in St Paul Ward 4, Ramsey, Minnesota.
John C Van Kirk 39 Marriage 1 for 10 years. Commercial Traveller XXXX
Florence M Van Kirk 30 Had 2 children and 1 survives
Rupert Van Kirk 7 Born Minnesota
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Florence and Rupert in Manhattan, New York, New York in 1930
Florence M Van Kirk 49 Married at 19 years. Widowed. Writer for Newspaper.
F Rupert P Van Kirk 27 Executive. Railroad.
Lawrence Kelley 24 Boarder
Mary Schuehler 46 Boarder
There was a US Passport Application for Florence Mable Partridge Van Kirk. 4 Nov 1924 (Spouses name John Wilbur Cloy Van Kirk - deceased in 1924 Has a photograph of John Wilbur Van Kirk)
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On a 1851 Census of Hamilton. Canada - it shows Thomas with Ann - all the children appear to be the right names and ages.
Thomas Bale - Aged 55 years. Mason Weslyan Methodist
Ann Bale - Aged 45 years. Born England
Thomas Aged 13 years
Hannah Aged 9 years
Elizabeth - Aged 21 years. Mary Aged 19 years and Prudence Aged 16 years marked Servant but then crossed through ???
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James Bale is with son Thomas in Ward 7 Hamilton in 1891
Thomas Bale 46 Commercial Traveller for Clothing
Ellen Bale 45
Frederick Bale 24 Silver Plater
Emma Bale 21
George Sidney Bale 19 High Scool Student
Mabel Bale 12
James Bale 77 Born England. Widowed. Manager at coal yard.
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James still with Thomas in Ward 7 - Hamilton in 1901
Thomas Bale 55 Immigrated 1854. Commercial Traveller.
Ellen Bale 55 Immigrated 1862
Fred'k Jas Bale 34 Metal Plater
Emma Bale 31
Geo S Bale 28 Teacher
Mabel Bale 21
James Bale 86 Immigrated 1854. Shoemaker
Elizabeth Sweet - Cullis Beer had died 9 April 1870 in Wentworth County
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Wow I turn my back for an hour and you have found so much James BALE's first wife was Mary BEER daughter of James BEER and Mary CULLIS I wonder if James and Elizabeth BUR is the same couple. James and Mary's son Thomas married Ellen SWEET I wonder if she was a relation could even be a daughter of his step mother umm would that be legal they wouldn't be blood relatives would they/
I will try to catch up with all this asp
H
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On the 1861 UK for Bideford Devon - Elizabeth Sweet does have a daughter Ellen Sweet aged 15 years. ;)
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Frederick James Bale son of Thomas Bale in reply 22 Born about 1867 Hamilton. Ontario died 23 April 1924 Wentworth County. Occupation :- Electric Plates. Name of Father:- Bale Name of Mother:- Sweet Name of informant :- James Bale - Brother. Cause of death:- General Progressive Paralysis. Burial Hamilton Cemetery - April 26th 1924. Name of undertaker:- F Slaght. 483 Concession Street.
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George Sidney Bale born about 1872 and aged 35 years - son of Thomas was a teacher. George appears on New York Passenger List.
Travelling Liverpool to New York on SS Campania 28 September 1907 in transit to Hamilton. Canada. He was married. Had been in New York/Boston in 1903
Also appeared on another New York passenger list - In transit to Woodford. Ontario from Southampton via New York on SS Majestic. Also travelling with him was Ella Genevieve Bale - aged 25 years, daughter and a teacher - going to Hamilton.
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Mabel Bale - daughter of Thomas and Ellen was born 7 Jun 1879 in Hamilton, Wentworth County, Ontario, Canadaand died 14 Dec 1929 in Hamilton, Wentworth County, Ontario. Married to Lorne Victor Johnson born 1879
Mabel, husband and daughter were living with father Thomas, brother Fred and sister Emma at 217 Victoria. Ward 7 Hamilton East
Thomas Bak 56 Born April 1855 ??? England. Traveller
Fred Bak 44 Born Dec 1866. Plater
Emma Bak 41 Born Nov 1869
Lome Johnston 31 Born Sep 1909 in Hamilton, Wentworth County, Ontario. Occupation:- Plater
Mabel Johnston 32 Born June 1878
Lorna Johnston 1
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Mabel married Lorne 14 June 1906 Wentworth. Lorne the son of Benj F Johnstone and Hannah M Will Johnstone. The spelling of the surname slightly different to the 1911 Census. Lorne was described as a Commercial traveller, Bachelor, Congregationist.
Emma Bale died Wentworth County 20 th December 1935. Geo S Bale was the informant. George living at 15 Redpath XXXXX Cause of death was Cerebral Haemorrhage/ Arterio Sclerosis/Arterial Hyper tension. Place of burial Hamilton Cemetery.
Mabel was Mabel Eva Johnstone died in MT. Hamilton Hospital. At the time the family were living at 141 Alpine Avenue. Lorne was the informant. Cause of death was Septicaemia (causd by small boil on face) Burial was 16 Dec 1929
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I can see a Joseph Bale listed on a New York Passenger List born 1815 - Aged 22 years - Occupation Mason. Port of depoarture was Bideford arrving New York 31 May 1836 on the ship Lord Ramsey.
Utah Cemetery Inventory has a Joseph Bale. Born about 1814 England
Died 27 March 1890 Salt Lake City Utah
Burial was 27 th March 1890 Salt Lake City Cemetery - Grave Location: L-18-12-4-4
and Salt Lake City Cemetery Records show = Joseph Bale 1814 England
Died 27 Mar 1890 : Salt Lake City, Utah - Plot: 15751 L-18-12-4-4 - Burial Date: 27 Mar 1890
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Think that is the right connection - can see more detail on the link below:-
Birth: Nov. 18, 1814 Derbyshire, England ??? (should be Devonshire)
Death: Mar. 27, 1890 Salt Lake City Salt Lake County Utah.
Son of Joseph Bale and Prudence Curtis. Married Anna Bibbins Chaffee, 27 Feb 1857, Salt Lake City, Salt Lake, Utah.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0bdg/
Anna Bibbins Chaffee Bale (1811 - 1881) - Daughter of Amos Chaffee and Harmony Crary. Married Elijah Fordham, 3 Oct 1838, Ashford, Windham, Connecticut. Children: Amos Pierre Fordham, Lydia Lovonia Fordham.
Married Joseph Bale, 27 Feb 1857, Salt Lake City, Salt Lake, Utah.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0bdh/
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Joseph Bale is listed in 13th Ward Gsl City. Salt Lake City in 1856 and Salt Lake City 3rd Ward in 1859
This looks like him mistranscribed St George, Washington, Utah Territory in 1870 (It is Bale on the image)
Joseph Ball 58 Born England. Brick Mason. Value Of Real Estate $599 Value of Personal Estate $100
Annie Ball 59 Born Connecticut.
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We are having a disorganised day but your hard work is cheering us greatly
Did you notice the top of the census 1901 for Thomas Bale and Ellen the enumerator was George Sidney Bale ? He was the teacher you found wasn't he
Gosh the bones are being well fleshed now
Can't thank you enough
H.
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Oh dear another strange problem I have 2 Mary Beers both marying Bales and both ending up in Ontario
1.Mary BEER born Bideford 1815 married William BALE her last child Edward was born 1852 in born 1852 he died in Aldborough, Elgin, Ontario in 1924 giving his mother as Mary BEER
2. Mary BEER born 1816 in Bideford 1816 married James BALE
now we think she was daughter of James Beer and Mary Cullis and her sister Elizabeth(SWEET) married her widower
Can we be sure that the right Bale is married to the right Mary BEER and that James married sisters?
What a strange situation I need to ask on the Devon board if anyone can acess the Bideford records to find their baptisms
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1861 in Brighton, Northumberland, Canada West - this would make William born 1816 Fairy Cross, Alwington, Devon and died 1894 in West Lorne, Ontario. Mary died 1858
William remarried Sarah Emily Bull in 1865 and they had 3 children. :- Ethelda 1866 - 1936 Mary Elizabeth 1866 - 1910 Stephen Bale 1871 - 1902
William Bale aged 45 years. Church of England. Farmer
Mary Bale Aged 48 years Church of England
Susan Yeomans Aged 16 years Born NC
Richard Aged 17 years. Labourer. Born Eng
John Aged 15 years 'Labourer. Born Eng
William Aged 12 years' Labourer. Born Eng
Edward Aged 8 years' Labourer. Born NC
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good so his Mary BEER was born nearer 1813 while Jame's Mary BEER is the one born nearer 1816 now all I need is the two baptisms to be sure still trying to add in yesterdays great data :)
H.
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Hmmmm.
Just seen a reference to the wife of William Bale as Mary Elizabeth Beer. Did the other Mary Beer have a middle name ?
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Not that I know about I have seen her referred to as Mary Cullis BEER but I don't know if this was simply a way of distinguishing her on that particular tree I often see people from the USA add the mother's surname when they are referring to a child I haven't seen the Cullis or even C on any documents so I don't know how reliable the Cullis part is.
H.
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There is an Ann James living with the Bennett family in Hamilton. Ontario 1871
John Bennett 48 Mary Bennett 42 Elizabeth Bennett 17
James Bennett 15 Henrietta Bennett 14 Edward Bennett 12 Eliza Bennett 10
Ann James 67 Born England. 1804. Widowed. Weslyan Methodist.
Regards
Sandra
Had a quick glance thru and don't think we had covered Ann James death - you may have got this by now but will post just in case
Ann James Born 1804 England passed away 11 May 1880 Wentworth Ontario. Rank or profession Nurse.
Sandra
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Forgive me if I repeat what you might have by now, I'm just looking thru for missing bits that I am not sure we covered.
Sarah James born 1835 Bideford Devon passed away 13 November 1919 - aged 85 years - - widowed - 50 Fairholt Rd. Informant A T James. Burial City Cemetery.
Sandra
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Alfred Thomas James - born 1857 passed away 5 th August 1937 - Wentworth Ontario - Father William James Mother Sarah Bale. Informant son William Alfred James. Burial Hamilton Cemetery.
FIND A GRAVE - with photographs.
Burial Hamilton Cemetery Hamilton Hamilton Municipality Ontario, Canada.
Spouse - Elizabeth McGinnis James 1858 - 1918
Son - William A James 1877 - 1938
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=148380439&ref=acom
Have you got the obituaries for this family ???
Sandra
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Hi Sandra only what you found earlier on this thread. I have just popped a request in the common room for help with Joseph Bale's odd mormon marriage too. Joseph was brother of Thomas who bought his family to Hamilton and started this chase.
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Wonder if RK (Run Kitty - Expert ;D) could find any obituaries for us (will ask in a pm ) :-
Elizabeth Ann Gibbs nee James Born 9 June 1861 in Ottawa Ontario Canada passed away 9 Oct 1936 in York, Ontario.
Edwin James Born February 22, 1863 in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada passed away October 21, 1940 in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.
William Henry James Born 5 October 1855 in Hamilton, Canada passed away 9 Jul 1905 in Wentworth, Ontario.
Thomas Bale born 1849 Bideford Devon passed away 23 September 1918 Wentworth Ontario.
Listed on FIND A GRAVE with wife Ellen and son Frederick J Bale who passed away 1924.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=118513466&ref=acom
Sandra
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The Thomas with wife Ellen SWEET was the son od James BALE(1815 brother of Thomas)their 1901 census says he went to Canada 1854 and she 1862 Hiswidowed father James is with them They have two sons and two daughters on that census one being Fredk.Jas.
Many thanks for finding the grave that adds nicely.
Oh dear I am now questioning the first premise. Back in 1997 yes that long ago I had some information from a prominent member of the Devon FHS who gave us a chart of the BALE family
on it it says that the four older sons of Joseph Bale and Prudence emigrated together to Canada. Now we took this at face value. But now we are questioning everything carefully and have found that the second son turns up in Yorkshire with a wife on both the 1851 and 1861 censuses so he didn't go to Canada in 1854. We know that Thomas and James both went then ( Fairy Cross is just outside Alwington)and we know Joseph turns up in Utah in 1857 was he one of the four to go together?
Children of Joseph and Prudence baptised in Alwington:
William son Joseph BALE by Prudence his wife January 31st 1802
John son Joseph BALE & Prudence his wife 2nd April 1804
Thomas son Joseph BALE & Prudence 5 Oct 1806
Mary 9 Jul 1809
Joseph son Joseph & Prudence BALE Apr 26 1812
James son of Joseph & Prudence BALE - Mason Alwington 13 Apr 1815
Robert son Joseph & Prudence Fairy X Mason 9 May 1819
William not found
John moved to Yorkshire 1851 and 1861 censuses
Thomas moved to Hamilton (daughter's 1901 census gives the year of arrival 1853)
Joseph moved to Utah (married in 1857 SLC)
James moved to Hamilton (1901 census gives arrival 1854)
Robert became a tailor and moved to London 1881 census
So what happened to William did he also go to Canada did he cross to the USA like Joseph?
Is there any way of finding when Joseph came across the Atlantic?
My contact has Willliam marrying a Susan and dying in Devon in 1851 but I can not find anything to substantiate this.
I wonder if anyone can find William or Joseph on the 1851 census so far we have failed to find either of them
It just shows you need to check every thing you find.
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Elizabeth A James Gibbs obituary in the Globe and Mail newspaper. She died at the residence of her daughter, Mrs Arthur L Vokes, 119 Buckingham Avenue, Lawrence Park (an area in North Toronto). Date of death was Oct 9 1936 (as mentioned in an earlier reply). Wife of Charles Gibbs of Hamilton. Interment Hamilton Cemetery.
RK
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Thank you RK - brilliant as always ;D
Noticed a death for a William Ball but it looks as if it could be Bale on the record ??? - Bale born 1800 Devonshire - passed away 22 January 1877 Huron Ontario. Occupation Yeoman.
Sandra
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Thank you RK - brilliant as always ;D
Noticed a death for a William Ball but it looks as if it could be Bale on the record ??? - Bale born 1800 Devonshire - passed away 22 January 1877 Huron Ontario. Occupation Yeoman.
Sandra
That doesn't look like one of yours unfortunately - Looks as if anc tree has this William as son of Henry Bale 1776 - 1844 Swimbridge Devon and Mary Galliford 1780 - 1868 Barnstable Devon
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Many thanks RK
There are several different versions of Elijah Fordham;s biography I have now found references that Anna Bibbins Chaffee leaft him when he wanted to take another wife their "sealing" was cancelled and she married Joseph Bale. What is not clear is how many more wives he took and who they were . Some say three more others four most seem to agree he married two on the same day though one thinks this was not true the two were sealed or endowed together. One account also say he married a widow and wanted to marry her daughter at the same time but the younger woman refused and was banished from the home..
The 1860 census Sandra found shows him with 20 year old Elizabeth this was the Welsh born
Elizabeth HUGHES who he married when she was 16 and he 58. Her sister had been married at 14. Is there any way I can find the truth of all his marriages?
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I don't have access to the early Hamilton newspapers.... and only some of this family seem to use the Toronto papers for their obits.
I have Miss Emma Bale's ... died in Hamilton on Dec 20 1935. Oldest daughter of the late Mr and Mrs Thomas Bale and sister of George S Bale of Toronto. Interment Hamilton Cemetery (Globe and Mail)
I see you have a Fred Bale in your family tree... born 1867...but you are looking for a William born about 1802. I wonder if he also had a Fred? Total guess here, but there is a marriage announcement in 1928 for a Cecil Courtney Bale of Hamilton - son of Mr and Mrs Frederick Bale of Niagara Falls NY, to Christene Nichol of Sarnia.
There is also a wedding of a Violet Bailey (dau of Mr and Mrs William Bailey) to Francis Lindsay Barr (son of Mr and Mrs Robert Barr of Sault ste Marie). This is in 1926. Out of town guests include Miss Emma Bale of Hamilton, Mr and Mrs Johnson and daughter Lorna of Hamilton (I would assume that this is Lorne Johnson and Mabel Bale, and their daughter Lorna... named after Dad). Also listed between the Johnsons and Emma is Mr and Mrs W T Armstrong of Beamsville. Could they fit with your family too? Other out of town guests are some Greenleys of Verona (bride's sister) and Mr and Mrs Wm Bailey Jr of Windsor.
RK
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Shame Sandra I was getting excited then it looked good.
RK I had seen the Baileys and dismissed them but with the presence of Emma theydeserve a second look. Many thanks
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Many thanks RK
There are several different versions of Elijah Fordham;s biography I have now found references that Anna Bibbins Chaffee leaft him when he wanted to take another wife their "sealing" was cancelled and she married Joseph Bale. What is not clear is how many more wives he took and who they were . Some say three more others four most seem to agree he married two on the same day though one thinks this was not true the two were sealed or endowed together. One account also say he married a widow and wanted to marry her daughter at the same time but the younger woman refused and was banished from the home..
The 1860 census Sandra found shows him with 20 year old Elizabeth this was the Welsh born
Elizabeth HUGHES who he married when she was 16 and he 58. Her sister had been married at 14. Is there any way I can find the truth of all his marriages?
This one should be on the Mormon thread on USA Hazel.
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Should be but there there are biographies with marriages for Elijah to Amelia Brown and Jane Marshall MCAUSLAN on the same day 1 April 1856 Elizabeth Hughes just a month earlier on March 21, 1856 there are also two others i can;t put my hand on at the moment will look and report back
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Hi,
I missed any reference to religious affiliation in Canada... were they Congregationalists? I am seeing reference to Thomas Bale of Hamilton in the Congregational Union (1915). Also, around 1923/24 (leading up to the formation of the United Church of Canada) there is a Walter Bale of Hamilton who is prominent in the Congregationalist Church.
Just tossing out a few names who might fit... possibly red herrings, but who knows.
RK
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Thomas and family were Congregationalist Brother James and family were bible Christian and of course brother Joseph was Mormon In Devon they were all weslyan Methodist. James had a son Walter born 1856 in Ontario
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Must be the right family then.. Walter fits... good to know.
I keep running into Joseph and James Campbell Bale in Hamilton. Don't know if they fit... Here is basic information from 1881 census. Joseph born in England in 1853 - wife Mary Jane RIpley
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MVFV-NW6
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FMWR-SPV
RK
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Obituary for George S Bale... Globe and Mail 21 May 1945, page 7.
Says he died on 20 May 1945 at his home, 15 Redpath Avenue. He was 72. He had been a high school teacher, and retired 7 years ago. He taught for 20 years at North Toronto Collegiate, and was a former principal of Niagara on the Lake Collegiate. He was born in Hamilton and graduated from the University of Toronto. He taught in Hamilton, and in other places in Ontario and New Brunswick (obit doesn't give specifics). Was at Kingston Collegiate for several years. Since retiring, he lived in Weston and Toronto. Was a mason (lodges listed), member of the Manor Road Bowling Club and of the United Church. Survived by widow Ella B Bale, a son Ldg. Writer James Bale (no idea what that means), and daughters Evelyn of Toronto and Mrs William Allan of Sudbury. Funeral held at Niagara on the Lake... no mention of cemetery though.
RK
Added - cemetery is not listed in this obituary, but in the short death notice (on another page) it says he is to be buried at St Andrews Cemetery - funeral from St Andrews Presbyterian Church, Niagara on the Lake.
However.. his gravestone is in Grace United Church instead. I guess there was a change of plan!
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Thomas and family were Congregationalist Brother James and family were bible Christian and of course brother Joseph was Mormon In Devon they were all weslyan Methodist. James had a son Walter born 1856 in Ontario
There was a marriage for Walter Bale born 1856 Canada and aged 22 years - Father James Mother Mary - Married Emma S Miller 19 September 1978 - Wentworth. Parents of Emma Miller were Moses and Lucy Miller.
Sandra
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Here is George Sidney Bale's tombstone. You can see wife's maiden name here too
http://www.geneofun.on.ca/names/photo/1615288
Grace United Church Cemetery, Niagara on the Lake
RK
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More information on George Sidney's daughters.. and son
Mabel Evelyn Bale died in the Niagara on the Lake hospital on June 18 1976. Daughter of the late G S Bale and Ella Bonibel (Gay) Bale. Sister of Ella Genevieve Allan (Mrs Hugh Sproule), Halifax, Nova Scotia, and James T Bale (Niagara on the Lake). James is in Niagara on the Lake, but formerly of Scarborough, Ontario. Funeral at Grace United Church.
RK
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James Thomas Bale (son of George Sidney Bale) - 15 March 1910 in Frontenac, Ontario, Canada passed away 24 Sep 1993 in Port Credit.
Canadian Headstone for James Thomas Bale and Dorothy Skidmore.
Niagara-on-the-Lake Cemetery
Niagara (Lincoln & Welland) Co. Ontario
http://www.canadianheadstones.com/on/view.php?id=153598
Sandra
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James Thomas Bale died in Cobourg, Ontario on Sept 24, 1993. Was in his 83rd year. Husband of the late Dorothy Enda Skidmore (It really says Enda... could be Edna though ???) Father of S Bale (male) of Roseneath, and G Calone (female) of St Catharines. 2 Bale grandchildren and 3 Calone grandchildren listed. Brother of the late Evelyn Bale and Genevieve Sproule. Funeral at Grace United Church. Interment at Niagara Lakeshore Cemetery.
So, he outlived both of his sisters. I wonder if Ella Genevieve Bale Allan Sproule died in Halifax or in Ontario??
RK
HA - I see Sandra beat me to it!!
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Oops sorry RK - but your obits are more interesting ;)
I don't want to tread on your toes so will leave you to it.
Sandra ;)
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No problem :) :)... I am just fishing all over the place here. I am looking for all the Bales I can find with a connection to Hamilton. NOt very scientific at all!!! Hit and miss is more like it.
I am seeing a Percy Bale, son of Joseph and brother to James Campbell Bale. I am not sure if he fits anywhere. If he does, I found the wedding of his daughter in the paper.
I think I am going cross eyed, so I will leave this for a bit. Perhaps Trees can contact the Hamilton library for obits not posted in the Toronto papers. There are many that I couldn't find. :'(
RK
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So sorry to be absent fo r all this interesting data I have been laid low with a chest infection ...on the mend now so will make my way through the last posts, meanwhile I have come across another odd Canadian problem you may be ablee to help with pleaes same family later generation
Joseph Bale and Mary Ripply had a son James Campbell Bale who seems usually to be known as Campbell Bale or J. Campbell Bale you mentioned his birth 29 Sep 1879 Wentworth Ontario., on Reply 54and here is a grave http://geneofun.on.ca/names/photo/1162710?PHPSESSID=dee4cd9d64a1c0bb5279058cf8c11c1c
This shows a wife named Lucy Wright WALLACE. but a tree on An..ry has a marriage for him
04 Sep 1912 • Guelph, Wellington, Ontario tp Grace Elizabeth LEADER
I can;t find either marriage can anyone else please? I am wondering did he marry twice or was there a secon J Campbell Bale around we already hoseph the father of JC BALE 1879
Many thanks...just don;t get too near incase I'm infectious its not a nice bug at all
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Marriage of James Campbell Bale to Grace Elizabeth Leader. His parents are listed as Joseph Bale and Jennie Ripley (deceased)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KS86-NGD
RK
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According to a short article in the Globe and Mail on Jan 10, 1914... Grace died on Jan 8 1914. She had come from Hamilton to Guelph to visit her father, who was ill. She had been there for a couple of weeks. She developed appendicitis and went to St. Joseph's hospital in Toronto for an appendectomy. The article says that the operation was successful... not so sure about that, as she died a couple of days after. She had been a teacher in Guelph and Fort William. She had married Mr J. Campbell Bale, a merchant of Hamilton, just over a year ago. She was about 25 years old.
RK
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1921 census in Hamilton. He is "James", aged 42... and a widower. Living with his father Joseph 64. Also there is a Sarah Ripley 62. James is a merchant.
RK
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Great that is all looking good if poor Grace died so young it is likely to be a second marriage then so I can add the grave to James Campbell Bale son of Joseph and Mary Jane Bale she was nee Ripply so must be the Jenny Jenny and Jane likely to be the same do you think? I'm going back to bed its 5 am and I just haven't slept a wink will be sooo glad when this what ever it is has cleared up completely
Many thanks for your excellent work
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You are welcome.... I hope you feel better soon :) :)
RK
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I don't think I updated what i now have about the missing brother William so here goes in case he can be found in Canada
William son of Joseph and Prudence Bale born Alwington 1802
married Susanna Brown in Atherington Devon had 4 children in Atherington
Elizabeth 1829
John 1830
William 1832 died 1834
Thomas 1836
Susannah died 1849 in Atherington/
Nothing more has been found of William in the UK until his burial in Atherington in 1880
Now you notice I have highlighted Thomas his son he turns up on a passenger list in 1910 with his son another William he was said to be returning to Canada and William was coming for the first time to work in a mill. William's wife and children then are on a passenger list in 1911 and they are all on the 1911census in North Bay Ontario
Thomas 73 arrived 1904
Mary wife 71 arrived 1904
William son 42 arrived 1909
Mary Jane daur in law 40 arrived 1911
+ 5 children
They are all Methodist.
Only William is working he is a baggage handler with CPR so not at the mill
So did William come to Canada with his brothers? and return to visit hos family in 1880 ?
I know Thomas is in Oldham working in a cotton mill before he leaves for Canada.
Is it possible to search for William again possibly in the region of North Bay? Is there a marriage for a William Bale after 1850 (there isn't a suitable one in the UK) Is he on any passenger list returning to UK between 1871 and 1880? ( he isnlt on the 1871 census for England and died in Devon 1880)