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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Herefordshire => Topic started by: jimbach on Friday 07 January 11 17:39 GMT (UK)
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info. sought re my gt.grandparents wm.cooke and phoebe nee jones of eye i feel there must be many descendants in the surrounding parishes and in leominster jimbach
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This 1881 family has the right ingredients (Leominster & Eye), altho the spelling for Phoebe is odd!
did they marry in 1851 ?
1881 census of Eye, Herefordshire - RG11; Piece: 2607; Folio: 38; Page: 2 'Moriton'
all the kids were born in Eye
William Cooke 55 Head born Middleton on the Hill: a Laborer
Phrole Cooke 49 Wife born Salop, Ashford
Fanney Cooke 14 dau
Caroline Cooke 11 dau
Arthur Cooke 7 son
Gertrude Cooke 5 dau
do you want them traced back on the census?
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hello mort 29 and thank you for your prompt reply you have the right cooke family forgive the poor typing im recovering from a stroke william and phoebe had their first child before they were wed he was william and was known as wm.jones .following marriage they had 7 daughters 1866 mary ann 1867 fanney 1870 caroline 1874 sarah my gr.mother 1876 gertrude 1880 elizabeth 1887 esther i have a photographof phoebe and the 7 girls phoebe herself was born in 1832 i may have the girls names and ages mixed up. the boys were the aforesaid william jones thomas 1853 joseph1855 arthur possibly more heaven help me gertrude and sarah entered into service in the manchester area thomas was abootmaker in the same area if you can helpme further id be grateful all suggestions are welcome jimbach mary ann emigrated to perth w.a. and died there
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wishing you a speedy recovery JB !
I'll try and find them in 1851 and 1861 ...
To follow the children into the 20th C, I'd suggest a new thread for each one - that will spread the workload :P
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1861 census of Eye, Leominster District - RG9; Piece: 1833; Folio: 46; Page: 13
William Cooke 38 Head of Household born Middleton: an Ag' Labourer
Pheby Cooke 28 Wife born Ashford
William Jones 10 son born Ludlow
Thomas Cooke 8 son born Eye
Joseph Cooke 6 son ditto
Susan Cook 3 dau ditto
Mary A Cook 5 MO dau ditto
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I've got Gertrude on the 1891 census - as you say, she was in service in Sale, Cheshire. The head of the household was Otto Friedlander, a 33 year old produce merchant from Denmark. RG12; Piece: 2826; Folio 81; Page 48
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1891 - have got Fanny and Caroline in the same place!
Primrose Cottage, Brimfield
James Downes Head 33 Mar Gardener bn Salop Munlow
Carolinne Downes Wife 22 Mar bn Heref Eye
William James Downes son 11mnths bn Salop Brimfield
Samuel Smith Boarder 63 Butcher St Albans
Charlotte Smith Boarder 63 bn Salop Richards Castle
Fanny Cook visitor 25 gen serv dom bn Heref Eye
RG12; Piece: 2319; Folio 40; Page
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Fannie Cooke married Albert Mapp Mar qtr 1892 Leominster 6a 744
In 1901, they are living in Eye, Moreton and Ashton with what looks to be an illegitimate child of Fanny.
Albert Mapp Head Mar 31 Farm Labourer bn Leominster
Fanny Mapp Head Mar 34 bn Herefordshire Eye
Ann Cook Dau 14 bn Lancashire, Sale
William C Mapp son 8 bn Eye
Arthur A Mapp son 5 bn eye
Pheobe G Mapp day 3 bn Eye
Alice Edna Mapp dau 2 bn Eye
Mary Eliza MApp under 1 mnth bn Eye
RG13; Piece: 2496; Folio: 44; Page: 11
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1901 census:
Primrose Cottage Brimfield
James Downes Head Mar 42 Gardener Salop Munslow
Caroline Downes Wife Mar 35 Shirt machinist Herefordshire Eye
William Downes son 10 bn Brimfield
Agnes Downes son 8 bn Brimfield
Elizabeth Downes dau 6 bn Brimfield
Florence Downes dau 3 bn Brimfield
Elizabeth Ward boarder wid 65 living on own means bn Brimfield
RG13; Piece: 2772; Folio: 49; Page: 15
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1891 Fanny seems to be in two places at once! It looks as if she has also be enumerated at her parents house, along with Annie Cook (aged 4 bn Sale) and Albert Cook (aged 4 bn Luston)
RG12; Piece: 2074; Folio 35; Page 4
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1871 census
William Cooke Head MAr 46 Ag lab bn Middleton on the Hill
Pheobe Cooke Wife Mar 36 bn Salop Huntingdon
Mary Ann dau 11 scholar bn Eye
Sarah dau 7 scholar bn Eye
Fanny dau 4 bn Eye
William Grosvenor lodger 49 ag lab bn Aymestry
RG10; Piece: 2718; Folio: 43; Page: 5
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Just trying to tally up all the children!
William bn 1851 Ludlow
Thomas bn 1853 Eye
Joseph bn 1855 Eye
Susan bn 1858 Eye
Mary Ann bn 1860 Eye
Sarah bn 1864 Eye
Fanny bn 1867 Eye marries Albert Mapp, children Ann Cooke, William, Arthur, Phoebe, Alice, Mary
Caroline bn 1870 Eye marries James Downes, children William, Agnes, Elizabeth and Florence
Arthur bn 1874 Eye
Gertrude bn 1876 Eye
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On 1871 census Thomas is with his uncle George Cook and family in Laysters Pole. George is a shoemaker, so presumably Thomas was learning his craft from him RG10; Piece: 2713; Folio: 38; Page: 17
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hello again mort29 and spidermonkey your findings have encouraged me no end assumptions id made have been proved wrong good thing too ones memory does play tricks im loking at phoebe and 5daughtersin this photo plus 2younger girls the obvious did not occur to me 2granddaughters william jones had issue and ibelieve 1 male descendant is living inthe w.midlands fanneys son wm charles mapp became labour m.p. for oldham east in the60s the lot of agri.workers in hereford greatly influenced him mary ann emigrated to w,australia where i think two of her 3 girls left issue gertrude married a quarryman in n.wales where family still live and sarahmarried incheshire where family still live thomas lived in sale cheshire and was a bootmaker you see both of you how youve clothed the bare bones i look forward to more thank you jb
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I'm pleased that we have been able to help you, Jim!
I think rather than marry a quarryman, Gertrude actually married the postman!
50 High St, dwygyfylchi, Caernarvonshire
Thomas Roberts Head Mar 36 postman bn Penmaenmawr
Gertrude Roberts Wife Mar 36 bn Hereford Moreton Eye
Margaret Roberts dau 2 bn Penmaenmawr
Pheobe ROberts dau 1 bn Penmaenmawr
RG13; Piece: 5286; Folio: 134; Page: 28
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Looking at the 1911 index, they are still in Caernarvonshire; line up of children slightly different though:
Margaret Jane bn abt 1899
William Ellis bn abt 1905
Edith Annie bn abt 1907
Gwendoline bn abt 1909
Ethel bn 1911
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1881 for THomas Cook:
School ROad, 12 Orchard Place, Sale
Thomas Cook Head MAr 27 Bootmaker bn Hereford Eye
Sarah E Cook Wife Mar 31 bn Cheshire Sale
Arthur Gresty step son 7 scholar bn Cheshire Sale
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Thomas Cooke mar Sarah Ellen Gresty Dec qtr 1877 Altrincham 8a 265
1891 census:
8 Hayfield St, Sale
Thomas Cooke Head Mar 38 Boot and shoe maker bn Herefordshire Eye
Ellen Cooke Wife mar 40 bn Sale Cheshire
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By the 1901 census, three sons have suddenly appeared for Thomas and Sarah!
Still at 8 Hayfield St, Sale
Thomas Cooke Head MAr 47 Bootmaker bn Herefordshire Eye
Sarah E Cooke Wife 49 bn Cheshire Sale
Thomas Cooke son 19 Bootmaker bn Cheshire Sale
JAmes Cooke son 17 Apprentice printer bn CHeshire Sale
William Cooke son 14 Railway clerk bn Cheshire Sale
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spidermonkey such speed how do you do it i didnt realise what a nestful of children there were in penmaenmawr descendants are still there ive yet to meet them my mother holidayed in n walesin early 20s later met a widowerwith 5 children married him and produced my brother and i my grandmother used to be brought by arthur gresty s car to visit us on the llyn peninsula jim
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Ah, so I take it you are related to one of the Ledgers to be found at 1 Moor Nook, Sale in 1901?
James Ledger Head Mar 39 Night soil man bn Sale
Sarah Ledger Wife Mar 38 bn Berrington Eye, Herefordshire
William Ledger son 16 assistant postman bn Sale
Charles Ledger son 14 Nursery boy, bn Sale
Mary E Ledger dau 12 bn Sale
Annie Ledger dau 10 bn Sale
Arthur Ledger son 9 bn Sale
Nellie Ledger dau 5 bn Sale
Alice Ledger dau 8mnths bn Sale
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hi spidermonkey how i envy your speed youve got me sussed im a ledger grandson albeit half welsh moor nook still stands in sale moor with ledgers still at no6 jim
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Having just joined rootschat.com i am overwhelmed by my findings.
I am the great great grandson of William and Phoebe Cooke, the great grandson of James and Sarah Ledger and the grandson of their daughter Nellie.
I am finding the reading fascinating and would appreciate any additional information.
Kind regards,
JB
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Just trying to tally up all the children!
William bn 1851 Ludlow
Thomas bn 1853 Eye
Joseph bn 1855 Eye
Susan bn 1858 Eye
Mary Ann bn 1860 Eye
Sarah bn 1864 Eye
Fanny bn 1867 Eye marries Albert Mapp, children Ann Cooke, William, Arthur, Phoebe, Alice, Mary
Caroline bn 1870 Eye marries James Downes, children William, Agnes, Elizabeth and Florence
Arthur bn 1874 Eye
Gertrude bn 1876 Eye
I am trying to trace a Catherine Cooke, daughter of a William Cooke (Gamekeeper). She was born 1869, Ashton Eye.
I notice that there is another Caroline in the 1861 census and it maybe that she changed her name to avoid confusion with the above Caroline? She worked at Berington Hall before moving to Oldham for work and married in 1898.
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good evening ironpot gladto make your aquaintance i just typed a ten min message for you and accidentally erased it i ll be happy to communicate using the private message facility you need to make two simple posts before you can use the facility something like thanks jimbach ill make contact soon etc we can then communicate privately ill make contact at weekend best wishes jimbach
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Thanks Jim
Sorry for taking so long to reply
Regards
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thank you for the message one more reply and we can have a private message jimbach
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Ah JimB - I misunderstood - are we in business now?
Regards
Ironpot
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Jimbach,just wondered if you have a photo of Charles Mapp mp.From all this information on this thread,he must have been a great uncle of mine.My great granddad was James Downes who married Caroline Cooke.Good to see a vip in the family!I'd love to know more about him.
Regards
Rolffan
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hi there rollfan i was glad to receive your message .....caroline downes nee cooke was my great aunt we can communicate by P.M. once you have made two more postings .....see the P.M. rules... i look forward to our chats are you based in herefordshire jim
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Many thanks,heres message 1
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and message 2
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rolffan
Did you ever get a photo of Charles Mapp the MP.
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good evening I have only one copy of a photo of Charles mapp a poor one which I got from the Oldham chronicle archives ...I believe rolfan has the same there must be other photos in the public domain jim
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Re: Charles Mapp MP.
Oldham Library has a small file of cuttings from local papers which have photos from near and after his retirement as an MP. Also a copy of his 1955 general election flyer which includes a photo plus one of his family. I have copies if anyone wants a copy.
Spent a number of happy days trawling through The Railway Clerk (The official organ of the Railway Clerk’s Association) and its successor (The Transport Salaried Staff Journal) wherein occasional individual and group photos. No copies but lots of notes made.
Interestingly when I checked local papers for results of all the local and national elections he contested no photos emerged.
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Thanks D020219910.Oldham Library sent me a copy of his obituary and an election article.I have not seen the 1955 Election flyer.If you have it as an attachment i would love to see it,please private message me.Thank you!
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Can do rolffan. Tomorrow sometime.
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I believe that I am related to Charles Mapp as he was my Grandmother's brother, Alice Edith Mapp (Smith)and my Mum's uncle. I've also tried to trace photos of him but to no avail. Please could you let me know if you visited Oldham Library for the photos or if you were able to get the photos via email. Thanks
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chunkymagic
Visited Oldham. I have a number of newspaper cuttings including photos. Please personal message me and I will happily share.
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Thank you for your reply and it would fantastic to see the photos of my Great Uncle. As a new member I can't send a PM but will once I've posted 3 times.
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Just post a simple message to me ( even just HELLO D0202199010) to make a third message and you should get the facility