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Research in Other Countries => Other Countries => Topic started by: Ezyka on Friday 14 January 11 14:51 GMT (UK)
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Hello. Would anyone be able to advise me on whether British India marriage certs can be ordered via the GRO Overseas ordering service? I'm after two certs 1) Frederick William Meads 1857 Agra, India to Eveline Caroline Piggott 2) Frederick William Meads 1862 Lucknow, India to Mary Margaret Shea. He was in the 107th regt of the British Indian Army. I can't find a GRO Index reference for them but I do have all the dates and names required for ordering.
Thanks
Erica
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Hi Erica
If they do not appear on the GRO overseas indices then the GRO most probably don't hold a copy of the entry.
You will most probably have to apply to the British Library for a copy
http://www.bl.uk/reshelp/findhelpregion/asia/india/indiaofficerecordsfamilyhistory/ecclesiastical/eccrecords.html
click on search service for prices (£36) pus £18 on top for a certified copy of the cert. Even though you have the place and date, they need to know which presidency and the correct volume reference numbers which you most probably don't have.
If you can make a trip to London and register as a reader at the British Library you can do the research for yourself on microfilm and get a photocopy for 50p I think.
Hope this helps.
Dawn
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Thanks Dawn. The baptisms of his children appear in the overseas GRO index but his marriages don't. I have all the info needed to order from the British Library but was trying to save a bit of money. I need to research his military career aswell so I guess i'll have to make a trip to London at some point! :)
Erica
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Hi Erica,
Lazylover (Carole) is generously offering to do LDS look-ups over on the Library & FHS offers page http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,456366.0.html
I found both marriages on the familysearch Beta site (perhaps that's where you got your information from?) so just contact Carole & give her the film numbers. She did a great job for me recently with some similar stuff for Indian records. You'll find the marriage entries contain a lot of information, almost as good as the actual certificate!
Jane
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Thanks Jane! I've sent Lazylover a PM. Fingers crossed she can help!
Erica
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Best of luck :)
Jane
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Hi Erica
You may want to send her another pm.
From the marriage registers in the British India Collection at the British Library
30 March 1857, St Georges Church, Agra
Frederick William Meads, aged 22, bachelor, Private 3rd Eur Regt, abode Agra, Father William Meads
Eveline Caroline Piggott, 15, spinster, Father John Piggott
Married after banns, witnesses Mary Ann Hallinan, JC Brown
17 July 1862, Lucknow
Frederick Meads, 26, bachelor, Band Sergt HM 101 Regt, Lucknow, William Meads
Mary Margt Shea, 16, spinster, Lucknow, (no fathers recorded for any brides on this register page)
witnesses James Mud*e (can't read), James Castell of 101 Regt
Hope this helps
Dawn
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Wow thanks Dawn!! This definately helps with researching Frederick's military career. I hope to find some kind of enrolement papers to try and find out where he was born. I've found him on the census returns, apart from 1841, which say he was born in Boxmoor, Hemel Hempstead, Herts but I searched the parish registers for that area and found nothing. Then oddly, his discharge papers say he was born in Glasgow! I'm hoping that military records might give me a clue but first I have to find some more records! I think this will be a British Library job. Did the marriage entries give the fathers occupation? On Frederick's 3rd marriage in Jersey it gave his father as Frederick a farmer. I'm wondering if his name was also Frederick William Meads.
Thanks for your help! :D
Erica
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No fathers' occupations shown on the microfilm, sorry
Dawn
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Hi,,,there is this man in findmypasts chelsea pensioner records
Name:Frederick W MEADS
Year of birth:1835
Place of birth:Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Regiment:107th Regt Of Infantry
he served in india for 15 years,,,,,,,on discharge his intended place of residence was Jersey.
his service states he enlisted in 1866,,,discharged 1870,,,,but he was also allowed a further 14 years service to count towards pension,,,,so maybe this chap served previously in another regiment?
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can you post one of the census references u have for your frederick? ;)
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Erica, we have an excellent Armed Forces page here on Rootschat which is worth keeping in mind should you get stuck.
I am by no means an expert in military research but I can give you the benefit of my recent first time dip into military matters :)
Your main place of research for military matters is going to be at the National Archives at Kew. The British Library holds very little in the way of HM forces, it's mostly for the British East India Company.
You're unlikely to find a service record or enrolment papers as you might for WWI soldiers. For his details you need to check Muster & paybooks for his regiment. You can search on TNA site for his regiment to see what is available. I was given a tip at TNA. On the catalogue search box just put in '101*' (omit the inverted comas) in the keyword box, this should give you all their holdings for his regiment. Put in WO for the series (War Office) & a time range.
It's also worth finding the regimental museum for HM 101 to see what papers they hold.
PS. Just seen gortonboy's post. If that's his service record then you probably wont need to search much further :)
Jane
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Thanks Dawn. I think i'll post on the military board aswell. I've not done much research like this before!
Hi Gortonboy. I have the record you mention on FindMyPast. Its his discharge papers. They are interesting as they give details of his medical conditions but they also raise more questions! Like his birthplace being Glasgow!? With the info that Dawn gave on his first two marriages, I now know two other regiments he was in before the 107th (which he was a letter carrier according to one of his childrens birth certs), a private in the 3rd eur regt and a band sergt in HM 101 regt. I know that he was a pensioner of the army and I would be interested to find out how much he got. Apart from the discharge papers, I don't have any other military documents for him. The census returns are as follows.
1851 Frederick Meads (mistranscribed Wends) b.abt1834 Boxmoor, Herts. School master at Winslow Workhouse, Bucks.
1871 Fred W Meads b.abt1835 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. Commissionaire in army. Living in St Helier, Jersey with his 2nd wife and children.
1881 Frederick Meads b.abt1835 Boxmoor, Herts. Pensioner. Living in Marylebone London with his 3rd wife Sarah (who he married in Jersey) and children.
He died in 1881 in Marylebone, London. I have his death cert.
My aim is to try and find out where his was actually born so I can't try and find out who his parents were. I can't find him on the 1841 census nor in the parish records for the Boxmoor/Hemel Hempstead area. I thought military records might provide a clue.
Erica
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Frederick is beginning to sound like my great grandfather. On his RN sign-up papers he states he was born Limerick, Ireland. On all censuses when he was serving, again, Limerick. Although I suspect that was copied from his papers. Then, once he retired from the RN & on the 1891 cesus he says, born in Hyderabad, India ::) I can't think of two more diverse places! Anyway he was born in India!
Have you tried Scotland's People to look for a possible birth?
Whoops, just thought, he was born 1830's so too early for Scottish civil registration :(
jane
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I had a look for Meads living in Scotland in 1841 but nothing that fits. I've been working on the Meads for a few years now and keep getting stuck! I find out little snippets of information every now and then but they just open up more questions! Kind of makes it more enjoyable though because i get really excited when I find something! ;D The other odd thing is that on his third marriage cert his name is Frederick William Alport Meads. ???
Erica
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......which begs the question, are we looking at two Frederick mead's?...have you found death registrations/burials for his first two wives?
Jane
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I'm not sure what happened to his first wife but his second wife died in Jersey. It says he is a bachelor on his second marriage but his children from his first wife are living with him and his second wife. So its the same Frederick. He was discharged from India to Jersey which is where he married his third wife. He was a widow when he married his thrid wife. This is where i'm descended from.
Erica
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I would guess that most of his soldiering would have been with the army of the HEIC - the Honourable East India Company. These units were absorbed into the British Army in the 1860's. So the record shows that he joined the British Army in 1866 but also that he had 14 years of former service which was allowed to count towards his pension.
On a point of detail, the 1871 census shows him as a pensioner, not commissionaire.
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Ah yes so it does! Its his death cert and some of the christenings of his children that says commissonaire. Are they the same thing? I've been reading about the HEIC on wikipedia and the Indian Mutiny. Will have to look out for some books on the subject. :)
Erica