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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: ppewan on Sunday 16 January 11 20:34 GMT (UK)
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Hi
Looking for info on my grandfather GEORGE YEATES married VIOLET LOWE.
Had one daughter Olga. born 28/05/1927.Married in Shoreham I think.
My mothr said he ran fruit stalls in Brighton .
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Welcome to Rootschat,
Do you have your grandfathers marriage certificate to Violet Lowe which will give you his fathers name and occupation then you will be able to trace him back through the census's.
I cant seem to find a marriage anywhere, do you have any other information on him that might help ??? i.e where and when born
I can see Olga's birth....... Olga J.E Yeates June q. 1927 Steyning, Sussex mothers maiden name Lowe.
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I think I recall a Roy Yeates fruit & Veg stall either in or at the entrance to Brighton's open market. He was recorded as having lived in Newick Road (My Brighton website) and may have died in September 2006 (Argus memoriums Yeates & Yates).
I also see on FreeBMD that your Olga was an only child, and the Genes website has someone (perhaps you) giving Olga's birthplace as Littlehampton which is in the East Preston district not Steyning. So do you have a copy of the birth cert to sort that out, if not, perhaps you should get one.
Another curious thing is that there are two slightly earlier sequential Yeates births also in the East Preston area (1923 & 1925) but with a mother's maiden name of Cartwright. The son Ernest, born 1925, died soon after his birth, but another person on Genes is interested in the daughter born earlier.
Thinking there was some connection and Olga's mother may have been a second wife, I looked for the Yeates - Cartwright marriage, or the death in the area of a female Yeates of child bearing age between the years 1925-1927, but neither could not be found.
So presuming George and Violet were more than just partners, the other alternative was that there is a deadspot as far as the FreeBMD records are concerned, and in consequence, you need to have a closer inspection of the master index produced by the GRO.
Roy G
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Hi
Thanks for speedy reply
My mothers birth certificate .Has George Yates occupation as Hawker.
But I know he ran a fruit stall as a child I was introduced to him at his stall.
I think it was in London Rd.this was in early 60s. He did marry again ?
I have noticed various Yeates still in the fruit trade and was wondering if they are related.I shall post more once I dig out mums paper work ,sadly she passed away 10/10/20.
P.
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Me again .
forgot to say mums was Olga J.E. Lowe.
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Unless he fathered Olga at quite a young age, George probably appears in the 1911 census. There are six people of that name in Brighton / Steyning districts ranging in age from 9 months to 36 years. Three more are in East Preston, the youngest being 28.
How old was he when he died?
All this is from a quick check of the 1911 index at the following website.
http://www.1911census.co.uk/search/tnaform.aspx
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Hi
Sorry I never realy had any contact with him.
I think he died early 80s.
Found mums birth certificate .
BORN 28TH MAY 1927
FATHER GEORGE YEATES "HAWKER.
MOTHER VIOLET YEATS FORMERLY LOWE.
ADDRESS OF BIRTH 2 UPPER SHOREHAM RD. KINGSTON BY SEA,SHOREHAM BY SEA.
Not where I was told .
Thy stayed at this address 27 Shakespeare St hove .
My dads still alive but memeory not so good but he says he definately ran a fruit stall in Brighton .
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Sorry more questions rather than answers
When putting a rough age to George, could you also tell us if the person on Genes called P* McE* is you? If so, how did your statement that you thought Olga may have been born in Littlehampton come about?
As it is, a Hawker is a good clue because quite a number of them were travelling people with no fixed place of residence, and little respect for convention. Sub text to that is that George may have taken a wife rather than officially marrying one. So was Violet's family from a similar travelling/hawking background, and have you any idea of her year of birth? There are a number of Lowe children in the Steyning parish workhouse in 1911, perhaps another possible connection. And before you clasp your hand over your mouth in horror, the official address of Steyning parish workhouse was 2 Upper Shoreham Road, where your Olga Yeates was born.
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/index.html?Steyning/Steyning.shtml
Your mother's marriage was in Hove in 1946, does that certificate give any more info about her father, and were the witnesses from the Yeates family?
Another line of enquiry is the history of the Brighton Open Market (1920s) which established itself just off the London Road in Oxford Street and The Level. Many stall holders were Barrow Boys, not too much of a transition for a former hawker. Some of those original market families are still in the fruit and veg trade, (Pat Mears, Charlie Gillam, the Jenkins boys) so it may be worth your while to also try to make contact with their parents if they are still about.
Roy G
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Hi
The littlehampton was my mistake .
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I have noted on the link I sent you regading the Steyning Workhouse which was at 2 Uppper Shoreham Road, states that the following records have been transferred to East Sussex Recoord Office.
East Sussex Record Office, The Maltings, Castle Precincts, Lewes, East Sussex, BN7 1YT. Holdings include Guardians' minutes (1835-1930); Births register (1914-1930); Deaths register (1890-1930); Inmates register (1882-1930); Admissions and discharges (1903-30);
Having discovered that various members of your Yeates and Lowe families may have been in that establisment at various times, and that Olga was actually born there, I have highlighted those items which may prove useful.
Roy G
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A colleague tells me that there are numerous G Yeates & Yates in the Brighton & Hove Street Directories (1930-1950) so it is most difficult to know which could be yours. You have given us the Shakespere Street address, was that from Olga's 1946 marriage certificate, and do you know of any other family addresses that may help us trace the family further back?
Roy G
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Hi
Sorry for delay been away.
The Shakespear address was on birth certificate.
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Between 1949-1970 number 27 Shakespeare Street Hove was lived in by some unmarried sisters with the unusual surname of Bickers.
Does that name mean anything to you?
Roy G
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Hi
Sorry that name is unkown .
I know Violet Lowe was from Fulham born around 1909.
How she came to be in Sussex ? .Mum had aunts who ran a Hotel /B&B in Hove ,
Also had a step grand father who was s jew call Goldsmith/Goldstien he was a cobbler in Hove or Portslade ,The only street I know of was WEST ST.Portslade ,
But Violet married ? again ? to some one call Alfred Ford.I know a lot of that family as I still hear from them but info about Yeates seems to be minimal!
Thanks anyway P.
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Violet married Alfred G Ford in 1934, so Olga was about 7 by then. If freeBMD is correct, The Fords then flitted between Worthing and Brighton (1935-1941) and 3 half sisters and one half brother were born. By 1949, the Fords were living at 17 West Street, Portslade.
As George was still alive and you have found no marriage, or papers suggesting a marriage between him and Violet was dissolved, it seems highly probable that they never actually got married in the first place. If you couple that with Olga's birth in the parish workhouse, often the only option for unwed pregnant girls, it adds credence to that line of thought.
Roy G
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Hi
Yep one sister died very young still a baby I think.
I know the brothers one still alive in Australia and one sister still in Sussex.
Some said that the son of George ran the fruit stalls after he died wonder if that was Rey Yeates previously mentioned I know the son died few years back .
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Your last text suggests that when you briefly met your grandfather in later years he was married. FreeBMD has two possible marriages, one prior to Olga's birth in 1925, the other in 1929. The maiden name of the mother of Roy the greengrocer (born 1928) was not Violet's or from either of those unions, so it is certain there is no connection to him through your maternal line.
Roy G
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Hi
Thanks I shall press on .
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My great grandfather was George Yeates who owned a fruit shop in Surrey Street , Littlehampton.
Amongst his children was a boy named Ernest ( my granfather ).
He married Florence Cartwright and they had two daughters ( Sybil & Irene and much later on a boy named Ronald. Can't help you a lot more as really as I can only remember my grandmother when the family owned a shop in Crewe ( where I was born )