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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: Forfarian on Monday 17 January 11 11:56 GMT (UK)
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John Stor(r)e/i(y) was born in the parish of Whitburn in West Lothian on 19 November 1827. His parents were John Stor(r)e/i(y) and Mary Walker, and his grandparents were John Stor(r)e/i(y), Janet Thomson, Alexander Walker and Elizabeth Barrie.
On 15 March 1847 he married Janet Murray, daughter of William Murray and Janet Turner. They had seven known children including William who was born 1849 and died 4 July 1891.
Yet when John had died on 21 September 1906 in the parish of Forgan in Fife, his name had been given as "John Storry Stewart, formerly John Storry", and the informant was William Stewart, son. There's no doubt John is the correct person because he is described as 'Married to Janet Murray' and the age fits.
Janet Murray or Stor(r)e/i(y) died in Glasgow on 17 March 1909, and her death certificate makes no mention at all of the surname Stewart.
So in the absence of any obvious connection to anyone named Stewart, does anyone have any ideas why he might suddenly have acquired a new surname, and why his widow had not also acquired the same surname?
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On the premise you would want your child to be known by the true family name, and his son is William Stewart, I feel John's father must have been a Stewart.
If so, you then wonder where the Stewart came into effect. Did his mother have him to another man but John was given the name of her husband, Stor(r)e/i(y). Or perhaps her husband or her husband's father was really a Stewart, but this wasn't known and/or acted on until much later.
It would be interesting to find out what his son William's siblings are called.
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Who was it that died July 1891?
Who was the informant for John?
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Have you found him on any census Forfarian,to get some idea of when this name change occurred.
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Who was it that died July 1891?
His son William, born 1849 died 1891.
Who was the informant for John?
William Stewart, son.
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Have you found him on any census Forfarian,to get some idea of when this name change occurred.
No. I have his wife and two of his sons in the 1881 census, but have so far failed to find John himself in the 1851 or 1881. I have not had an chance to look in any other census. I would have expected him to be in either Whitburn or West Calder in 1851, then West Calder from then on.
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On the death record for William was John recorded as John Storrie (sp) or John Stewart
Who was the informant?
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On the death record for William was John recorded as John Storrie (sp) or John Stewart
As I said in my initial post, he was recorded as "John Storry Stewart, formerly John Storry"
Who was the informant?
As I said above, it was "William Stewart, son".
It cannot be his son William Storry, born 1849, because that William died in 1891, 15 years before his father John's death in 1906.
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I was meaning the death record in 1891
What are the names on it?
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I was meaning the death record in 1891
What are the names on it?
William Storry's death record in 1891 gives his parents as John Storry and Janet Murray, and the informant was his brother Alexander Storry. No mentions of any Stewarts.
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In the interim I have had a look at SP and still cannot find the family in 1851. However in 1861 they are all (except Mary who died young) living, as I expected, at Gavieside in West Calder, surname Storry.
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Hi Forfarian,if the first William dies in 1891 but by 1906 he has acquired another son named William,is it possible he and Janet parted and he either re-married or moved in with someone else and simply took the name of his new partner.Just going by the fact he died in Fife and Janet in Glasgow.Just an idea and probably wrong ;D
George.
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Hi Forfarian,if the first William dies in 1891 but by 1906 he has acquired another son named William,is it possible he and Janet parted and he either re-married or moved in with someone else and simply took the name of his new partner.Just going by the fact he died in Fife and Janet in Glasgow.Just an idea and probably wrong ;D
Could be. However the death certificate does say 'Married to Janet Murray'.
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Hi folks,
I think we have 2 marriages here, in the 1881 census, I think this is John Storry with a new wife also called Janet and he has started a new family. There is a submitted record on IGI gives John Storry marriage to Janet Wyper 1873 at Whitburn. If original Janet Murray married a Stewart maybe her Storry children added Stewart to their surnames.
Dwelling: Hillhead Cottage Census Place: Whitburn, Linlithgow, Scotland
John STORRY M 53 M Whitburn Head Occ: Retired Farmer
Janet STORRY M 32 F Whitburn Wife
Jessie STORRY 9 F Whitburn Daur
Kate STORRY 7 F Whitburn Daur
John STORRY 6 M Whitburn Son
Glaud STORRY 4 M West Calder Son
William STORRY 2 M West Calder Son
Alexr. STORRY 6 m M Whitburn Son
Margt. THOMSON 27 F Whitburn General Servant
Tom
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I think we have 2 marriages here, in the 1881 census, I think this is John Storry with a new wife also called Janet and he has started a new family.
No, sorry, reasonable suggestion but it won't wash. The John Storry who married Janet Wyper in 1873 died in 1933, and I have seen his marriage and death certificates. He was in fact the son of John Storry (aka John Storry Stewart) and Janet Murray. I think the '53' in the 1881 census transcription is an error for 33. (Just to complicate things, his brother William Storry, the one who died in 1891, married Christina Wyper, sister of Janet Wyper)
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Hi Forfarian,
It's a good little problem, you've got.
I found another 2 x John Storry's on SP Wills, both from Whitburn, 1 in 1878 +1 in 1891, maybe relatives of yours, who died in 1906.
There is no mention of Stewart in your family tree then, because names were changed outwith the law and changed back when it suited them. I have similar in my tree, I can see that they did it, but not why. I suppose that is the problem with genealogy we may see it black and white but not always the reason.
I wish you good luck with your chase.
Tom
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I've found John in the 1851 census;
Holehouse Lum, Whitburn, West Lothian
John Storry 27, Farmer of 60 acres
Janet 24,
John 4,
William 7,
Janet 2 months.
Regards,
flst
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Was the William Stewart who reported the death an illegitimate son?
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Was the William Stewart who reported the death an illegitimate son?
I don't know, but I think he has to be. He certainly wasn't John's legitimate son William Storry using a different surname.
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I think we have 2 marriages here, in the 1881 census, I think this is John Storry with a new wife also called Janet and he has started a new family.
No, sorry, reasonable suggestion but it won't wash. The John Storry who married Janet Wyper in 1873 died in 1933, and I have seen his marriage and death certificates. He was in fact the son of John Storry (aka John Storry Stewart) and Janet Murray. I think the '53' in the 1881 census transcription is an error for 33. (Just to complicate things, his brother William Storry, the one who died in 1891, married Christina Wyper, sister of Janet Wyper)
Could there possibly be a bequest in a will that caused the family to change their name? I think you might have to do some research on the WYPER side of the family:-
I found this in the Scottish archives under WYPER:-
Andrew Stewart, iron manufacturer in Glasgow and Coatbridge (d.1901), William West Watson, City Chamberlain of Glasgow (d.1882), and James Stewart Wyper, rancher in Chile (d.1915))
http://www.scan.org.uk/catalogue/
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1901 census
Janet Storry 76 born: Bathgate, Linlithgow occ retired farmers wife
Claud Storry 41 son born: Lothian, Mid
Jessie M Mungall 74 ??? grand daur
John S Mungall 22 grandson
Peter Mungall 23 grandson
Address: 3 Overdale Gardne Cathcart
Can't see John on this census
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Who was the informant on Janet's death in 1906?
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I've found John in the 1851 census;
Holehouse Lum, Whitburn, West Lothian
John Storry 27, Farmer of 60 acres
Janet 24,
John 4,
William 7,
Janet 2 months.
Regards,
flst
Thanks, flst. I don't quite understand why I couldn't find him - it looks straightforward enough. (It will be Holehouseburn, I think, not Holehouse Lum).
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1901 census
Janet Storry 76 born: Bathgate, Linlithgow occ retired farmers wife
Claud Storry 41 son born: Lothian, Mid
Jessie M Mungall 74 ??? grand daur
John S Mungall 22 grandson
Peter Mungall 23 grandson
Address: 3 Overdale Gardne Cathcart
Can't see John on this census
Thanks, Sancti. Looks about right. Jessie Mungall was born in 1876/7 so she would have been aged 24, so that must be a transcription error.
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I found another 2 x John Storry's on SP Wills, both from Whitburn, 1 in 1878 +1 in 1891, maybe relatives of yours, who died in 1906.
Yes. The one in 1777 is my umpteen-greats-grandfather. The one who died in 1878 was my mysterious John's father, and the one who died in 1891 was his uncle. So all of them are related to me.
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Hi Forfarian,
There is still a J Storry and a Hugh Storry at West Badallan Farm, Bathgate, had a wee search on phone directory, and there is a Michael Storry in Cathcart. The present day family may not know about it anyway.
Tom
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Hi Forfarian,
In the Glasgow Herald archive of 24 September 1906, there is a death notice,
"Stewart - At Bellevue Terrace, East Newport on the 21st inst, John Storry Stewart aged 83 yrs."
The age is out by 6 years, was the death certificate the same.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=GGgVawPscysC&dat=19060924&printsec=frontpage
Tom
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There is still a J Storry and a Hugh Storry at West Badallan Farm, Bathgate
They are almost certain to be related. 'Mystery John' was a member of the Badallan family. His direct ancestor was William Storry of Badallan, who was a brother to my gggggf John Storry of Braco who died in 1777 and left that will.
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In the Glasgow Herald archive of 24 September 1906, there is a death notice,
"Stewart - At Bellevue Terrace, East Newport on the 21st inst, John Storry Stewart aged 83 yrs."
Thanks, Tom, I hadn't got round to looking in the Herald. Yes, the dc gives 83 years.
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What census records do you have Janet and John living together?
Could this be her in 1881 and 1891 without john?
1881
Alexander Starry 23 head
Janet Starry 55 mother born Whitburn, Linlithgowshire
Gland Starry 31 brother born: West Calder, Edinburghshire
Isabella Douglas 24
Address: West Broomhill Farm West Calder
1891
Janet Storry 62 born: Whitburn, Linlithgowshire
Jessie Mary Mungall 14 grandaughter born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
John Shrry Mungall 11
Peter Mungall 10
Address: 5 Park Terrace Govan
Could John have left the family and lived with a woman called Stewart and had a family with her?
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Hi Forfarian,
On the IGI, an extracted record gives John Storry birth 29 Oct 1822 @ Whitburn parents John Storry and Mary Walker, does this tie in with OPR.
Tom
NB Still no nearer finding out why he introduced Stewart to his name, I have exhausted all my thoughts, checked NAS records too.
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Thanks, sancti.
I have them together in 1851, 1861 and 1871, and I did have the 1881 with John missing that you have found, but not the 1891.
It must be something like that, I imagine. Now if I could find John in the 1881 under either surname, it would help. I have the LDS CD set but so far have not found him as either Storry or Stewart.
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Only 1 that comes close for 1881 is this
John Storay 61 head born: Whitburn, Linlithgow Occupation: Farmer (Of 70 Ac. All Arable Employing 1 Man & 1 Woman)
Elizabeth Shanks 51 wife born: Stirling, Slamannan
James Owens 22
Christina Brown 25
Address: Northfield Farm House Fauldhouse
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Only 1 that comes close for 1881 is this
John Storay 61 head born: Whitburn, Linlithgow Occupation: Farmer (Of 70 Ac. All Arable Employing 1 Man & 1 Woman)
Elizabeth Shanks 51 wife born: Stirling, Slamannan
James Owens 22
Christina Brown 25
Address: Northfield Farm House Fauldhouse
Yes, I have him too, thanks. He's another cousin of Mystery John.
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What was the occupation given for him and address when he died in 1906?
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What was the occupation given for him and address when he died in 1906?
1906. Deaths in the Parish of Forgan in the County of Fife. [No] 39 John Storry Stewart (formerly Storry), Landed Proprietor, married to Janet Murray, [died] 1906, September twenty-first, 5hr 30m AM, Bellevue Terrace, East Newport, M, 83 years, [father] John Storry, Landed Proprietor (Deceased) [mother] .... Storry MS .... (Deceased), [CoD] Senile Decay As certified by T P Stewart MD, [informant] William Stewart, son (Present), [Registered 1906, September 22nd at Newport, Fred G kemp, Registrar.
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1901
John Stewart 65 head born: Linlithgow, Linlithgow occ retired farmer
Christina Stewart 56 wife born: Glasgow, Lanark
Lily Stewart 30 daur born: Glasgow, Lanark
Sophia Stewart 18 daur born: Glasgow, Lanark
Isaac Stewart 16 son born: Glasgow, Lanark
Address: Bellevue Terrace Forgan
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1891
John Stewart 58 born: Carluke, Lanarkshire ??? living on private means
Christina Stewart 42
Lily Stewart 16
William Stewart 14
Alexander Stewart 10
Sophia Stewart 8
Isaac Stewart 6
Address: Wellshot Hill Wellshot Driv Saltcoat's Villa Cambuslang
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sancti I think you've got it! Thank you very much indeed.
This is from the 1881 census
67 Park Road, Barony
Christina McDONALD Head Mar 34 Wife Of Harbour Labourer Shotts
Adam McDONALD Son 9 Scholar Son Of Land Proprietor Glasgow
Lily McDONALD Daur 8 Scholar Daur Of Land Proprietor Glasgow
William McDONALD Son 4 Son Of Land Proprietor Glasgow
Alexander McDONALD Son 2 Son Of Land Proprietor Glasgow
Sophia McDONALD Daur 9m Daur Of Land Proprietor Glasgow
Mary BEVERIDGE Serv 14 New Monkland
Christina Stewart died in Glasgow in 1926, described as widow of (1st) John McDonald, butcher and (2nd) John Storry Stewart, farmer. Her parents were Isaac Glencorse and Agnes Ditchburn, and she had married John McDonald in Glasgow on 24 August 1868. I am not surprised to find that there is no other marriage of a Christina Glencorse in the SP index. The IGI has a birth of Lillias Storey McDonald on 30 December 1873, parents listed as John McDonald and Christina Glencorse. I have not found Adam, but there was a John McDonald registered to the same couple on 30 April 1872 who would have been very nearly old enough to be Adam. The others are too young to be in the IGI.
So John had a mistress, and eventually left his wife to live with his second family, hence the change of name. But still no indication why they should have chosen Stewart (other than to hide themselves with a very common name, or to confuse future genealogists).
I'll have a look for all the children's birth certificates when I next go to Edinburgh.
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Great!
The wall is weakening ;D
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On the IGI, an extracted record gives John Storry birth 29 Oct 1822 @ Whitburn parents John Storry and Mary Walker, does this tie in with OPR.
Yes. I still have to see the actual OPR to confirm details. The 1827 date is (I think) from an online tree, and as you all know it is never wise to trust online trees, or 'submitted' IGI entries.
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Hi,
Well done Sancti and Forfarian, eventually pinned him down by the address that he died at. So he left his wife did not divorce her, stayed with his new partner. Would be interested to see his will, he had quite a few children and step children. Like it when you get a result.
Tom
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I wonder how William knew about the name change as he was born a McDonald
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Looking at the 1881 census it looks like Christina was still married and had left her husband.
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I wonder how William knew about the name change as he was born a McDonald
William was apparently better informed than his brother Alexander, who registered their mother's death. William obviously knew that their father had changed his name, that he had not married their mother, and that their father's wife was still alive. Alexander described their mother as the widow of their father, which she wasn't. Maybe Alexander was telling a diplomatic lie.
The law assumes that all children of a married woman are her husband's unless she specifically declares that they are not. The children can only be registered in the biological father's name if he accompanies the mother to the registration office and signs the birth certificate at the same time as she does, in which case the children are registered under her own name, her husband's name and under their father's. The father's name cannot be added later except by an entry in the Register of Corrected Entries, or the birth can be re-registered if the parents marry subsequently. The original birth certificate cannot be altered.
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Hi Forfarian,
On NAS, found the following, not sure if it is the same person but may shed light on why Stewart was picked.
Country code GB
Repository code 234
Repository National Archives of Scotland
Reference CS230/MC/14/26
Title Christina McDonald or Stewart: Note for Poors Roll
Dates 1863
Access status Open
Tom
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Thanks Tom, but I'd be surprised if it's the same one, given that her maiden name was Glencorse and that she wasn't married to John McDonald until 5 years after that. I'll check it out some day when I'm in the NAS.
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When a relative died childless, it was sometimes the practice to leave the inheritance to a member of the family on condition that they changed their surname to that of the childless relative so that the line was 'continued'. Have you checked the Retours which would cover inheritance of land and estates. BTW, my great great uncle Peter Mungall was married to Jessie Storrie of Garvieside.