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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Sussex => England => Sussex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Miss May on Tuesday 18 January 11 08:28 GMT (UK)
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Hello Chatters
Firstly thanks for looking - I really need some help here.
I'm looking for William Thoroughgood or Thorogood b. 1814 in Brighton according to Australian certs of his that I have. He may also have married locally before coming to Australia. Once in Australia he married Elizabeth Singleton in 1862, and died in Stockton NSW in 1891.
I have no documented details of his parents - his marriage cert is frustratingly sparse of anything really useful, as is his death cert. The only consistent snippet I have is that his occupation was that of a blacksmith.
Many thanks in advance. :) :)
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In all probability the place was Brighton, but I have found nothing as yet. There was however, a William Thorogood born in Cambridgeshire c1811, and knowing Cambridgeshire has a place called BRINGTON, I thought I would pass that on just in case there has been a mistranscription somewhere along the line. Does the record you found add the county of Sussex?
Roy G
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Hi Roy
Thanks for your reply, and thanks for looking :)
Unfortunately the record is clear in that the handwriting is legible and does say Brighton - but no county, just Brighton England. None of the shipping records or convict transports I've looked at have anyone by his name from Brighton. His conjugal status at his 1862 wedding in NSW was "widower".
My only other option would be to purchase some more birth certs of his children to see if there is greater detail on any of those. At the moment I have only one of these that pertains to my direct line, but I am resisting buying any more at the moment - too easy to get completely carried away...
MM
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One other thing...
Some other family researchers online have his mother listed as Mary Jeffrey and father William Thoroughgood - but without adding their sources. Might this help? :-\
MM
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Hi
I have just looked for any Thoroughgood marriages pre1837 in Sussex and there are only 5. This would imply that it is not a Sussex name and you may well need to look elsewhere.
When did he arrive in Australia? Might his first marriage be post 1837 and appear on www.freebmd.org.uk?
Andrea
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Having looked at my road atlas I see that there is also a Brighton in Cornwall and a Brightons in Scotland - near Falkirk. Worth investigating maybe?
What was his occupation? Might he appear on a UK census?
Andrea
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Hi Andrea
Thanks for looking.
My problem is that I don't know exactly when he arrived in Australia. The only other clue is in his occupation as a blacksmith, and of all the other convicts that came to Oz that share his name, there is one whose occupation is a black and white smith from Essex who came in 1840 and is listed as married with 1 son and 2 daughters. He was tried in Kent for sheep stealing and sentenced to 15 yrs transportation. But I don't really know if this is my man. I have no idea if my Wm arrived as a blacksmith or learned it later. The previous marriage in England might support his later widower status, but it's a tenuous connection to make. You can see I'm grasping at straws here and have little reliable evidence to go on so far :)
Just saw your other posting. The Brighton in Cornwall might work - but I don't think the Scotland one. His marriage cert in Oz definitely says England.
MM
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Away from home at the moment, but when I get back I will have a look for possible siblings born in Brighton Sussex around the same time.
A problem you may have encountered already is that the surname is so long and repetative, there could be a number of ways of abbreviating it.
There is also a New Brighton near Blackpool by the way.
Roy G
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Bit confusing as Children are;
ELIZABETH 1857
SUSAN 1859
HANNAH 1860
THOMAS 1862
ELIZABETH 1864
SAMUEL 1866
ROSE A 1868
MATILDA JANE 1873 (Died 1874)
Under Thoroughgood, Parents WILLIAM/ELIZABETH Reg Newcastle NSW
So were there 2 Elizabeths if William didnt Marry Elizabeth Singleton til 1862???
Or were the Children born pre Marriage but given the Thoroughgood name?
Williams Death Reg in 1891 has his Father as WILLIAM, Mother Unknown.
An on-line Family Tree has William/Elizabeth having a BENJAMIN c 1870 also.
You may also have found this;
http://incher.homemail.com.au/kai-ancestors/a1.htm#i447
It has Elizabeth SINGLETON 1839-1920, born Bottlesford. Lincolnshire
Parents RICHARD Singleton and Hannah SPEED
Trish :)
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Back home, but found no Thoroughgoods baptised in Brighton, 1813-1835 so no possible siblings. The only baptism was a Samuel, son of a shoemaker Samuel & Augusta, baptised 1837.
I do however have one suggestion that may help though, especially as you do seem to be clutching at straws.
The IGI index does not include baptisms that took place in Preston Village, now a Brighton suburb, and it is common for people from Preston to say they were born in Brighton. Furthermore, between 1793 - 1900, Preston had a Cavalry barracks which initially had stabling for up to 1000 horses. So if your William followed the same trade as his father, the Cavalry barracks would be quite a good place to find a blacksmith, especially one with an unusual surname that originates in another county. Perhaps the parish records of Preston near Brighton is an avenue you should explore more fully.
Roy G
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Hi Trish
Thanks so much for your trouble.
Yes there were 2 Elizabeths. The first b.1857 also apparently d. 1857, but I have not found the death in the indexes to confirm this yet. The second was differentiated by the addition of Ann to her name, so Elizabeth Ann b. 1864 d.1902.
Yes, you are right about Elizabeth Singleton's birth in Lincolnshire in 1839. She died in Stockton NSW in 1920. Richard Singleton and Hannah Speed came out to Australia and died here 1868 and 1874 respectively. I also have Richard's parents as William Singleton b. 1780 Lancashire d. 1888, and Martha Burden m. 14 Dec 1801 Lincolnshire; then this Wm's parents as William Singleton b. 1752 Lancashire d. 1835 IN Singleton NSW. This town was named after a family member 8)
I'm constantly amazed at the speed and expertise of Chatters on this board. Thank you :)
MM
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Hi again Roy
Thanks for all your efforts. A massive storm interrupted our power last night just as I was reading your posts, so it was great to read everything this morning.
Your Preston suggestion sounds very interesting. I shall see how to go about accessing those records and follow up.
When William settled in Australia he lived in Stockton at Newcastle NSW which was even then a busy port town. There are maritime reports of a William Thoroughgood building two 12 metre sailing boats - one called Rose, and the other Ben (incidentally both names of children of my William). Both of these came to grief, but he is recorded as the boat builder and owner of the Ben. I have no evidence that there was a 2nd William Thoroughgood in Newcastle at the time, so I think this may have been my William.
I may also post some info on one of the other boards here which cover Convicts. Hopefully someone with more insight and expertise than I in that area might also be able to help.
I shall let you know if I have luck in the Preston records. Thanks again
MM :)
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Hi
I have just looked for any Thoroughgood marriages pre1837 in Sussex and there are only 5. This would imply that it is not a Sussex name and you may well need to look elsewhere.
When did he arrive in Australia? Might his first marriage be post 1837 and appear on www.freebmd.org.uk?
Andrea
Hi Andrea
I did look at the freebdms, but I don't have the name of his first wife to know which marriage might have been his. I think I need to nail his birthdate/place then I can know which marriage was likely to have been his. Also, I have no real evidence to know what year he left England. My working assumption is that he left in 1840 (when a convict William Thoroughgood was transported - trouble is there are at least a dozen Wm Thoroughgood/Thirgood/Thorogood/Thurgood who were transported and I don't know which one is mine ???).
I shall keep looking. Chatters have been very helpful. Thank you. :)
MM
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Found I could access the early Preston baptism records on the Internet via my membership of Sussex Family History Group, but unfortunately still drew a blank. Your Thorogoods were not RCs were they?
Another side issue to consider by the way,
I found one of my rellies who was transported to Oz leaving his wife and family behind, found himself free to marry after serving his term, even though his wife was still alive in the UK and they had not been divorced.
Roy G
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Hi
Just a thought as your most likely candidate for William is from Essex how about Brightlingsea? It can sound like Brightonsea.
Jan ;)
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Hi Jan thanks for chiming in :)
I will check out your Essex lead - who knows, 'Brighton' might also be a complete furphy and it might just have been his last abode... Will eventually track this chap down. Thanks again
MM
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Hi Roy
Thanks for checking the Preston baptisms for me.
I lucked out also on the 1841 Census - checked it just in case there was evidence of any Thoroughgood family still there. I read for Preston Barracks what I think was a John Thoroughgood aged 20 (handwriting was unclear and I could be jumping at shadows), but nothing in Preston village.
I shall have a poke around on the weekend and see if I can come up with anything else.
Thanks again to you and everyone else for all your efforts. I know some day I'll be able to piece him together accurately.
MM :) :)
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Been checking back for the first appearance of William in the Ozzie records, and found a few omissions. The IGI has the marriage and the following children
Batch Number: 0960338
WILLIAM THOROUGHGOOD - Male Marriage: 1856 Stockton, New South Wales, Australia
Batch Number: 0960338
MARY ANN THOROUGHGOOD - Birth: 1857 Stockton, NSW, md as Thorogood Wm Latham 1875 (d 1938)
HANNAH THOROUGHGOOD - Birth: 1862 Stockton, New South Wales, (d 1947)
THOMAS THOROUGHGOOD - Birth: 1863 Stockton, New South Wales, (d 7 June 1938)
SAMUEL THOROUGHGOOD - Birth: 1866 Stockton, New South Wales, (d 29 Mar 1930)
BENJAMIN THOROUGHGOOD -Birth: 1870 Stockton, New South Wales (d 23 Aug 1927)
A boating record says Benjamin Thoroughgood (1870-1927) was born at Clarencetown.
Batch Number: 0960361
ELIZABETH THOROUGHGOOD - Birth: 1857 Stockton, N S W, Md Wm J Smith 1882
SUSAN THOROUGHGOOD - Birth: 1859 Stockton, N S W, Md Thomas Latham 1877 (d 1917)
ROSE A THOROUGHGOOD - Birth: 1868 Stockton, New South Wales,
MATILDA JANE THOROUGHGOOD - Birth: 1873 Stockton, New South Wales, (d 1874)
It puts his marriage earlier several years earlier than you have (1856 not 1862) adds Mary Ann (1857 unless she was also known as Elizabeth) to your list, but missing is the 1864 Elizabeth. It wouldn't be the first time the IGI got things wrong, but its worth checking the old Stockton / Clarencetown records again in the hope that there was an earlier marriage certificate with much more information on it.
As for Preston Barracks, (not to be confused with the barracks in Preston Lancs) its a bit of a no hope-er because the 10th & 18th Dragoons were there in 1814, and it could be that their blacksmith went where ever the those regiments were posted.
Also noted that there is a complete dynasty of blacksmiths with the Thoroughgood surname, most with their roots in East Anglia or Ireland.
Roy G
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Thanks for that RoyG. Excellent work.
MM,
When I said were there 2 Elizabeths I meant 2 WIVES for William named Elizabeth.
The Children born pre 1862 to a possible first Wife Elizabeth then the others post 1862 to Elizabeth Singleton.
Roys 1856 Marriage seems to confirm that.
Trish :)
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If there were two wives called Elizabeth, it does create an interesting scenario and a few further questions.
We understand Elizabeth Singleton was born in the UK in 1839, making her only 17 if she married in 1856, or 23 if she married in 1862. So did she travel out as a fellon (if so for what crime, where and at what age, and did she serve her time?). Was she a child of a fellon (Parrametta records?) or did she and her family choose to come or were they posted? Another alternative was that about 1849, British workhouses had a hidden practice of unloading marriageable young girls from the city's poorhouses, before, in the words of Micklethwaite, "they became sullied by the other inmates" and finding a reason to send them to Oz to become brides. The aim was to reduce the annual cost of supporting waifes, and to stop crims that had done their time from returning.
Whatever the reason behind Elizabeth's arrival, did she then produce some of William's children before they married or only those born after 1862? Do any of the m certs of William's early children indicate she may have only been their step mother?
Although finding answers is certainly difficult, the fact that those questions even have to be asked suggests both sides of the family had most interesting pasts.
Roy G
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Hi Trish and Roy
So much to think about... You're all being incredibly helpful and very thought provoking. Thanks :)
Sorry, misunderstood about there possibly being 2 wives named Elizabeth. Have searched NSW BDMs however and can't find another marriage listed for William in Stockton (or anywhere else NSW for that matter) for 1856. The only other marriage listed in NSW between 1850 and 1865 is for a William Thurgood to Charlotte Hunt in Sydney in 1852. Don't think this is matches the record found on the IGI. I'm looking for parish registers for Stockton, but microfilms of these seem only to cover 1888-1893. Shall put a call out for a lookup of the actual registers if possible.
If my original working assumption that William is the convict who arrived in Oz in 1840 on the "Eden" - the ships list states that this William Thorogood was married with 3 children (1 male 2 female) when he was transported. The other info from this document is that he was aged 25, could read and write, of Protestant religion, his occupation was a black and white smith, from Essex, and tried at the Kent Assizes on 9 March 1840 for sheep stealing, sentenced to 15 years transportation, with no previous convictions, and he was 5' 8 1/2". This would make this chap's birth year abt 1815.
If this is my man, perhaps those first few children were born out of wedlock to Elizabeth Singleton and that upon the death of his wife in England, he felt free to remarry, hence the 1862 NSW marriage to Elizabeth Singleton... What do you think?
I am ordering a couple of NSW certs to see what else has been documented for a clearer picture. As you know, I already have the 1862 Thoroughgood/Singleton marriage, and the birth, marriage and death certs of their daughter Elizabeth Ann.
Roy, very interesting that you have encountered a familial occupation link between the Thoroughgood name and blacksmithing. This might be very useful in discerning between the different Williams contemporary to mine.
As for Elizabeth Singleton, she arrived in Oz onboard the "Briton" in 1844 aged 5 with her parents Richard (ag labourer) and Hannah (farm servant) and siblings William 15, Martha 12, Richard 9, John 7, Samuel 2. Other researchers have linked Elizabeth to a ?great uncle Benjamin Singleton who founded Singleton NSW and is purported to have paid for her family to come to Oz, and ?great grandfather William Singleton who was convicted at the Old Bailey in 1791 for larceny and transported to Oz arriving on the "Pitt" in Feb 1792. So Roy, not the daughter of a felon, but possibly a great granddaughter. That's my next research endeavour ;)
Many thanks again
MM
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You say
My original working assumption is that William is the convict who arrived in Oz in 1840 on the "Eden" - the ships list states that this William Thorogood was married with 3 children (1 male 2 female) when he was transported.
Looking at the 1841 census index, there is only one family in Kent (Gravesend & Milton district) with the Thoroughgood surname. That was a husbandless Sarah born c1813 (wife?) and children Thomas 1835, Sarah and Emma both born c1839. A good fit for the Kentish family left behind by the transportee. Sarah even appears on FreeBMD as born near Eham (Hythe district) The problem however is the IGI, for it lists the baptisms of each of those children but gives their father the first name of Thomas. Suggest it's worth a look though.
Roy G
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Thomas Thorogood married Sarah Austin 21 Sep 1833 Milton by Gravesend
Shame he isn't a Thomas William :(
Jan ;)
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Roy's census find almost fits. Such a shame hubby wasn't a William. Thanks for checking anyway Jan.
Does anyone know of Bridon outside Bradford. There still exists a Bridon Way not far from Cleckheaton, and I wondered if this had once been a hamlet or something similar :-\
Still thinking up alternatives to the "Brighton" birthplace.
Also, having real trouble finding Elizabeth Singleton's death in the indexes. Some trees have her death in Stockton 1920, but I've searched BDMs to order the cert and can't find her anywhere. Has anyone spotted her?
MM :)
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The reason you can't find her death record in NSW is that she remarried. She died as Elizabeth Snedden. Registration number is 10734/1920.
When I work out how to attach documents, I'll add a copy.
Tina
(Elizabeth Singleton & William Thoroughgood are my 3x g.grandparents)
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Hi Tina
I did eventually find that Elizabeth remarried - but would still appreciate a copy of the cert as I don't see that I have it in my records. I've done a lot more research since this thread started nearly 10 years ago when I was just starting out looking into the family.
Elizabeth Singleton and William Thoroughgood were my 3 x g grandparents too, via their daughter Elizabeth Ann :)
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The reason you can't find her death record in NSW is that she remarried. She died as Elizabeth Snedden. Registration number is 10734/1920.
When I work out how to attach documents, I'll add a copy.
Tina
(Elizabeth Singleton & William Thoroughgood are my 3x g.grandparents)
Welcome to rootschat
You will not be able to attach a copy as it is a look up board. Generally we are only allowed to put images of documents on this site as snippets for translation purposes, it will probably be best if you transcribe the document
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William and Elizabeth are my 2x G.Grandparents, Elizabeth Anns sister Hannah is my GG.
Grandmother. Hannah married James Moncrieff and they lived in Stockton as did my grandparents. I don't know whether you will be interested or already know but i have some info from a family tree
which was done in 1983.
WILLIAM THOROUGHGOOD age 28, wife, 2 daughters, 1 son, sentenced for sheep stealing Kent assizes, 15 years. Ship " Eden. height 5'10", stocky build, fair hair, read and write, black and white smith, County Essex 1840. These details ex "Convicts indents". Mitchell Library, Sydney.
ELIZABETH SINGLETON arrived on ship " Briton" Dec. 1839. Settled at " Windeyer's property at Tomago where her father managed the property
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Hi
I have just looked for any Thoroughgood marriages pre1837 in Sussex and there are only 5. This would imply that it is not a Sussex name and you may well need to look elsewhere.
When did he arrive in Australia? Might his first marriage be post 1837 and appear on www.freebmd.org.uk?
Andrea
Thoroughgood/Thorogood are still roaming around Sussex, I know of atleast two in the area. Although it may not be a Sussex name, some have stayed in the area (not far from Brighton either).