RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: YJC on Friday 21 January 11 15:40 GMT (UK)
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Son of Hannah Watts (c1786-1858) but who was his Father ??
His Mum was married to Robert Cornwell who was in the army 1819-1835 & away from home a great deal. It is thought Robert was away from home when John & his brother James (born c1826) were both conceived. Robert & Hannah separated & when he left the army he went to live with another woman in Ireland ! On John's marriage cert to Mary Weeks, 29/6/1851 @ Wadhurst he names his Father as John Cornwell - was this a real person or a made up name, perhaps simply his first name & his Mum's married name ?? I am unable to trace an exact date of birth for John.
It is known that Robert & Hannah had 2 daughters = Harriett born c1815 & Eliza born c1817. There may also have been a 3rd daughter , Hannah c1822-1838 but not 100% sure about her.
Hope this all makes sense ! I'm very confussed ??? over John's parentage - can anyone help please ??
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I had a look on IGI, but only 1 Baptism is showing:
Eliza Cornwell / April 20, 1817 / Heathfield, Sussex
Father: Robert Cornwell / Mother: Hannah
Looks Like Robert is in Liverpool on 1851 Census.
HO107 / 2176 / 13 / 18
8 Beau Street, Liverpool
Robert Cornwell / head / 57 / Hospital Servant / b. Sussex
Ann / wife / 66 / Hospital Servant / b. Ireland
plus 2 other staff and Patients - looks like some sort of Military Hospital
I had a look on FindMyPast at the Military section to see if I could find anything on Robert - nothing showing.
I don't know who John's father is. It might be worth trying to find the Baptism Records and see if there is anything for him and the other Cornwell Children.
Robert & Ann back in Sussex 1861 Census
RG09 / 2757 v/ 27 / 16
Moss End Cottage, Park Hill Road, Aughton
Robert Cornwell/ head / 67 / Pensioner / b. Warbleton
Ann / wife / 75 / b. Ireland
+ Ann's daughter & granddaughter
Looks like he is living with his daughter Harriet Russell in 1871. So it is possible that John may have had some contact with Robert - whether he was his father or not I don't know.
Madri
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This could well be Harriet with her hubby and kids. Robert is here with them too. Did she die?? He states here he is a Widower in this census
Living in Lower Burwick?
George Russell head 50 Ag lab b. Berwick
Harriett do wife b Heathfield
robert Cornwell Fathr in law 81 Widower , Persnioner of Greenwich b. Warbleton
Abraham Geale stepson 18 ag labourer b. Ripe
Charles do stepson 14 Ag Lab b. Ripe
Will see what else I can find
In the 1841 Census it is just Hannah, James and John in the household
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Robert's 2nd wife Ann, died. Here is probable death
Ann Cornwall / Ticehurst
June 1863
Vol No: 2b / Page No: 50
Madri
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Woo Hoo ;D ;D found John in the 1851 and surprisingly enough Mary Weeks is a servant there too !
living in 53 Halbowen? Wood - funny that he is living with the Tompsett's but the wife is Philidelphia, I did see another census that had a Philidelphia Cornwell on - any connection? Thought it might be a realtion of John's................
1851
Census
James Tompsett 76 Farmer b. Ticehurst
Philidelphia do 75 b.Cranbrook, Kent
Samuel do son 40 Farmers son b. Ticehurst, Sussex
Martha do dau 35 farmers dau b. do
Mary Weeks 21 House servant b. Wadhurst, Sussex
John Cornwell 21 farm lab b. Heathfield
Alfred Chapman 16 Farm lab. b. Hawkhurst, Kent
Ann Attwood 50 Washer woman b. Mayfield, Sussex
HO107 / 1639 / 137 / 16
No luck with bapt. sorry yet.............. :'( :'(
Living in Wadhurst in 1861 with mary and 5 children, can post details if you don't have them already
Still in Wadhurst in 1871 with Mary and nine children
In Ticehurst in 1881 with Mary and 6 children
The only John Cornwell b. heathfield (I can see) in 1891 is living with a Caroline Tester and her son Tommy Will see if I can find mary and the kids............
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Hi there
I put in John's details omitting father but put in Hannah as mother on the pilot family search site and this is all it bought up - don't think it is him but it is all I have found for a John born in Heathfield so far
http://pilot.familysearch.org
There is a John Cornwell b.2 June 1830 and christened 29 June 1830 BUT the parents are noted as Ann and James ??? ???
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Found Harriett on the pilot site - still no John or James
harriett
born 29 October 1815, Parish Church of Benenden, Kent
Parents: Robert and Hannah cornwell
Just a thought, wonder if he was born in Heathfield but christened/bapt. somewhere else as they appear to have moved around a bit???
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Sorry - I should have made it clear from the start, I have details of John's marriage, death, all the census between 1841-1881 (not 1891 or 1901 yet) + his descendants up to modern day. His Mum was defo Hannah.
The son of James & Ann is not 'my' John.
Yes the family seemed to flit between Sussex & Kent quite a lot, I wonder why / dare I even ask ????
As far as I can tell the only missing piece of the jigsaw is the true ID of John's Father - I've travelled down so many avenues looking for this but so far they all seem to have brick walls, nearly the size of the one in China, at the end !!!!!!
Thanks for all your help & please don't give up on me !
Bye Yvonne
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1891 Census - sorry no bapt. as yet :'(
Living 37 Wood Knowle, Burwash, Ticehurst
John Cornwell 59 Widw, Farm Labourer Agr, b. Heathfield
Caroline Tester 38 Servt, Housekeeper, b. Wadhurst
Tommy Tester 13 son, Houseboy, b. Wadhurst
1901 - 85 Valuicessa? , Burwash
John Cornwell 68, Farm Lab b. Heathfield
Caroline Fester (spelt with F not T here) 47 Housekeeper b. Wadhurst
RG 13 / 892 / 119 / 14
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Wow - many thanks.
The bapt is proving very elusive but fingers crossed it is out there somewhere !
Y
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Hi YJC
Have you seen on nationalarchives.gov.uk
Settlement examination PAR372/32/4/10 dated 30/11/1838
Re: Eliza Cornwell age 24. Father Robert and children John and James
Regards
Sue
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Hi Sue
Thanks for that & yes I have seen the settlement info. It is believed the John & James given as sons of Eliza (we know she was the daugh of Robert & Hannah) are not the same 2 Cornwell boys I am enquiring about. The reason being -
1841 census - Eliza is living in Heathfield with her 2 aforementioned sons John age 5, James age 3 + her daughter Diane age 1. She married James Hook, 4/5/1840 @ Hadlow Down, Sussex.
Her Mum, Hannah, also appears on the 1841 census living in Heathfield with 2 boys James 15 & John 12 , we are assuming these are Hannah's sons but can't be certain unfort.
I 'll just need to keep digging - I have a very large spade !!!!! :D
Bye Yvonne
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I am a direct descendant of John and Mark Cornwell and have been looking for John (snr) for the past 30 years (without success). Would be interested in the military records of Robert if anyone can help.
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Hi
I don't know if this will help or not.
I have been adv by a 'Cornwell' contact on GenesReunited that she has found the ARMY rec , consisting of 20 pages, for Robert CORNWELL, under the Chelsea Pensioners Collection @ FindMyPast. I haven't actually seen it. I have emailed her to see if she has downloaded it & if so if she would send me a copy, I'll let you know if & when I hear anything.
You mention in your message that you are a direct descendant of John & Mark Cornwell + you speak of John Snr. Is your John Snr (1830-1902) the one who was marr to Mary Weeks & John (1865) was their son ? Who was Mark ? John Jnr's son perhaps ??
Bye for now
Yvonne
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Hi - I forgot to say in my earlier message - my husband is also a direct descendant of John Cornwell (1830-1902). I have his Mum as Hannah Watts, Father - N/K even though Hannah was married to Robert it is not thought he was John's Dad ! I have Hannah's Dad as Samuel Watts & his wife Hannah surname N/K. Does this all tie in with your tree recs ?????
Look forward to hearing from you.
Yvonne
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Hi Yvonne,
Sorry for the original error but Mark should have read Mary. I forgot that John and Mary (nee Weeks) had a son called John (b. 1865). My John Snr is the 'missing' John Cornwell and is given as John's father on his marriage cert. with Mary (1851). Understand from other messages in this chat room that Robert re-married and is anyone aware of the date/location? Were Robert and Hannah divorced or was it a case of bigamy? I have found a copy of Robert and Hannah's marriage in the Benenden parish records and on the same page is the wedding of Thomas Cornwell and Sophie Martin (1814). Robert was a witness so was he Thomas' brother? More questions than answers.
Regards
Kevin
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Hi Kevin
Thanks for the clarification re Mark/Mary !
I did wonder after I had sent my earlier message if the elusive John was the person named as John's (who marr Mary) Father. I'm started to think he wasn't actually a 'real' person but simply a name on a cert ????? I have also hit a BIG BRICK WALL with him.
I have heard back from my GR contact - she has Robert's Army recs saved but is currently having probs sending them to me ............watch this space !!!!
She has said she would be interested in making contact with you - do you want to arrange this by way of direct email ? If not I will ref her to your details via Roots.
You haven't said how far you have managed to trace the Cornwell clan back in time - have you got any further than me ?
We are not convinced Robert actually marr Ann as there do not appear to be any divorce recs for him & Hannah, although they do appear to have lived together.
Bye for now
Yvonne
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Hi Yvonne
I've been searching my Cornwell family tree and came across this thread. My Grandmother was a Cornwell, her parents were James and Emily. James was the son of the John and Mary you are talking about. I find this quite interesting as the line ends with John in my searches as well. Just wondering if you ever found anything out?
Cheers
Rhonda
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Just re-opening this very old subject re the Cornwell family.
My interest is that there is a Cornwell's Bank in Newick, East Sussex, so not very distant from Heathfield.
From what I can trace, the road used to be known as Colonels Bank - perhaps the Sussex dialect caused a mishearing of the name?
Point is, I need to establish
a) WHO was the "Colonel" that the (em)Bank(ment) was and
b) Were there Cornwell's in Newick around in the 1700/1800's?
The term "Colonel's Bank" shows in the 1841/1861 and 1901 Census Returns and even in a newspaper report of a suspected murder in the 1950's but at some stage the name changed....
Any of you bright Cornwell researchers up for digging this for me?