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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Midlothian => Topic started by: marcie dean on Tuesday 07 September 10 15:46 BST (UK)
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According to a census 1891 he was born 1869, according to his marriage to Marjory Brown in 1904 he was 32 which makes his birth 1872
His parents were William Laidlaw and Margaret Laing, this I know and have the details of.
I have his marriage info and the birth of his son William Walker Laidlaw in 1904. I have the birth years of his children including my grandad. I cannot find his death year. The name is so common in Edinburgh that it is difficult to ensure you obtain information on the right John Laidlaw. Spoke to my mum today and she thinks grandad was in his mid/ late teens when his dad died.
Apparently John had a sleeping sickness due to being in Africa or somewhere hot and dusty during the WW1 and she said that he died from this illness, this is the only clue I have. Having GReat difficulty with this, seems that he was older than I thought when he died. More than 39/42 yrs old, possibly by 8/10 yrs older. I have John Laidlaw records coming out of my ears there are so many!
Marcie ??? ;D
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I have searched the records for Scotlandspeople and the LDS with no true results. Cannot think of anything else which would help, with the exception of actually going up to Edinburgh to do the research.
Perhaps try alternative years 10 yrs at a time.
marcie
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Hi Marcie,
Just linking these two threads ... http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,478330.0.html
John Laidlaw died April 4th 1923 at the Royal Infirmary in Edinburgh. He was 53 and parents were registered as you note (William was a cab driver like his son). Marjory, widow, registered the death. They were staying at 3 Albert Street. He died of encephalitis lethargica, which is described (as far as I can see) as some sort of sleeping sickness.
hume
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Hi Marcie, :)
1871: Address: 49 Duke Street, South Leith
William Laidlaw, m, head, 29, cab driver, b. Leith
Margaret Laidlaw, f, wife, 25, -, b. Edinburgh
John Laidlaw, m, son, 2, -, b. Edinburgh
1881: Address: 3 Laurie Street, South Leith
William Laidlaw, m, head, 36, cab man, b. Leith
Margaret Laidlaw, f, wife, 33, -, b. Edinburgh
John Laidlaw, m, son, 12, baker's message boy, b. Edinburgh
1891: Address: 38 Duke Street, South Leith
William Laidlaw, m, head, 48, cab - hirer, b. Leith
Margaret Laidlaw, f, wife, 44, -, b. Edinburgh
John Laidlaw, m, son, 22, cab - hirer, b. Edinburgh
1901?: Address: Hill Street Cancer Hospital, Glasgow
John Laidlaw, m, patient, 36, formerly coachman (domestic), b. Leith
Marriage:
William LAIDLAW and Margaret LAING, 1863, Leith
Children (extracted from IGI):
Charles William LAIDLAW, 1863, Leith (mother Margaret Ann LAING)
I cannot find a birth for John to these parents so it would be interesting to find where you found his birth certificate. It looks like he could have been registered under another name and brought up as William and Margaret as their own.
hume
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Hume,
Thank you!
That is just as well, because his youngest son Alexander whom my uncle was named after because alexander died, was born in 1915 I believe from memory and I did wonder if he died before the child was born then who was my great granny seeing on the quiet ;D
Sad, I dont think I ever met him unless he came down south when I was a baby. I know that Marjory did with Rob Robertson and Jimmie and Wyn his wife and stayed over. Drunk as Lords, I was about 4 at the time.
This will help because I needed a time line to work to. He named his eldest boy Robert Clermiston Laidlaw and of course there was Clermiston Hall/House which is where the Zoo is now or just the other side of it on land adjacent. And the family have always said that he was the son of a Laird who lost his family during the war and decided to talk to John to try and repair the damage of ignoring him all his life, was prepared to leave him monies so that he could live comfortably for the rest of his natural. But he refused to have anything to do with him, his own grandfather. So the land and such went to Edinburgh.
He advertised in the papers for the whereabouts of his Grandson. Need to find the newspaper to confirm my suspicions that I have the right family, so that I can feel comfortable that the family was not lying and that our history lies somewhere else other than with the Laidlaw family entirely. If that was the case, the truth, then my grandad would have inherited from his father being the eldest, my grandfathers eldest died before his 2nd birthday and my uncle Alexander is dead, but his eldest son Robert would be in his forties, and would possibly welcome the news, though I have not seen him for 32 yrs. so know nothing of him, which is also sad. Have to take a guess as to the time that John met his grandad and go from there.
Once again, thank you so very much for this ...Marcie
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Please remember not to post details of living, or possibly living, people.
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Hume,
I looked under William Laidlaw and Margaret Laing. Did not know that his first name was Charles nor that Margaret had a middle name of Ann, so that is news.
How would i find out what name John was registered under, if not their names,
my nan told me that the birth mother died in labour or soon after john was born, and that she was either a friend of the family or was connected to the family whilst working as a servant in the house. She gave the child to them to look after and bring up. I dont think that they ever had any other children. Would his death cert, and marriage certificate be enough to use as a reference with the Registrar in Edinburgh to find out for sure. It was also said that as his way of showing John acceptance he seconded him for the masons in Edinburgh.
marcie
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I was going to say that they are all dead, but my uncles wife remarried and possibly renamed her children, so does that count?......
Robert Laidlaw b. 1908 died aged 74
Alexander died after the war, drunk set fire to his bed by accident
Alexander (uncle) Jimmie identified a head less corpse (so he's dead)
Wyn died 18mnths before Jimmie about 20yrs ago
my nan died 16yrs. ago.
Older generation of family is dying out rapidly now so must unravel this conundrum asap. and tell the younger generation whether its false or true.
marcie ..... I understand, keep forgetting that I am not having a conversation just with hume, but everyone and their aunty. ;D ;D 8) ::)
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Hi Marcie, :)
Unfortunately with family stories, they can be very hard to prove unless you have some exact names or connections. I have a similar story in my family (an ancestor being closely related to aristocracy) and I'm afraid although I have made headway with her family, I haven't been able to prove any close links.
Can you post a full list of John and Marjory's children? Providing, of course, all are deceased and their details are allowed to be posted. It may help with names but if the story is right, it doesn't seem like John would name any of his children after his "natural" family. :-\
hume
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Would it be easier to send a pm with the list of names, most are dead, dont know about Lily or Margaret(Peggy) Have not researched them as yet.
marcie
Mis read your posting initially, have re-read it and now understand that Charles William is a son to them, another fact I did not know.
Also, because these names are so common, have a Henry Laidlaw and Helen McLeod as Williams parents, but I will now check to make sure that williams father is not Charles William as they are apt to name their children after their fathers etc.
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There were 5 girls and 3 boys living.
William Walker laidlaw born August 1904 died the same year as birth, he was also named after another William Walker born in 1843.
Agnes Barron Brown Laidlaw 1906
Robert Clermiston B. Laidlaw 1908
Lily Laidlaw 1909
Margaret 1910
James Hutchison Laidlaw 1912
Marjory 1913?
Alexander 1915 I also think that there was a Mary Margaret not sure on birth year
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William Laidlaw m Margaret Ann Laing
William and Margaret had a son Charles William died at the age of 6months on the 1st wedding anniversary of his parents.
Williams father was Charles Laidlaw and his mother was Joan Foster
cannot find Joan Foster on SP. John Foster was a (seaman)
Charles parents were John Laidlaw and Christian Guilland or Robertson
Christians father was Robert Robertson and her mother was Jas? Guilland
it definately state Jas so knowing that the male form of James is Jas I wondered what the female form Jas would be abbreviated for.
marcie
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Jamesina is the Scottish feminine form of James but I've never seen it abbreviated. Are you sure it isn't Jane rather than Jas?
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No, I am not totally sure. Writing is not too clear, but will see if I can upload it onto here see what you think aghadowey. It would make some sense, it would possibly explain why one of the boys were named James. Thank you, I did wonder if her name was Jasmin but it is not likely that they would use a name like that in that era, would they.?
None of the adults within 100 yrs were called James, no brothers were called James only John.
marcie
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Dont seem to be able to attach this, which is strange as I managed to attache a photo and there should be no difference
will try again later
marcie
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name are a lille blurred
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Finally I managed to get it small enough and place it where I could find it easily, at last.
Can you have a look at the Laidlaw area and see what you think the females name is. Jane or Jas.
marcie ::) ;D
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Had a look at your marriage reg Yes John L and Christian Guilland were married on 23 Jan. She is the daughter of Jas (James) Guilland and the relict (widow?) of Robertson a weaver or tailor. No mother's name evident. The IGI of this marriage has her family name as Guilland or Robertson. I know it's not much but does seem to make better sense. T
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Hi Thinlizzy,
I read it that Robert Robertson was the weaver or Tailor and Jas. Guilland was his wife/partner which is why Christian used either name. I am sure that it said Jas.Guilland and Robert Robertson.
Now I am even more confused. ::)
I will go and look to see if Christian was married before to Robert Robertson to affirm if this is the case. Though it does not say deceased on the marriage to John laidlaw 1782
marcie :)
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Can we have a cancel button please.
Just read the piece again that I obtained from SP. it could certainly say relict
will definately buy more credits and research a previous marriage.
I read that as Robert or the abbr. of. Do I feel embarrassed or what! :-[ :-[ :-[
Thanks Thinlizzy from not so confused
marcie :-[
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Am now looking for her mothers name and both parents birth details, marriage etc. Hope that James Guilland does not have the same problems as James Laidlaw, Smith or Brown.
marcie
Wish me luck with the hunt.
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Looked on SP for the birth and the marriage of Christian Robertson to James Guilland.
No marriage found to James either on SP nor LDS but many choices regarding births of Christian Robertson and possible parents thereof. Too many.
marcie
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I found an RCE for John Laidlaw. Will try to load it so you can see for yourself,
is this maybe one of the clues I have been hoping for. dont seem to be able to will have to load it to the desktop first.
Details: 1873 Laidlaw, John
Statutory births 779/00 0016 (RCE) Page 11 779(Whats this?)
Register of corrected entries for the parish of Yarrow in the County of Selkirk
20th April 1875 signed Wm Bell Registrar then there is another date of 3rd May 1876 It says about changing the year from 1873 to 1872 and has other information on there as well. Is it possible that he was not born in leith and if his original birth was registered in Selkirk then it may show who his real mother was atleast.
marcie
Moderator Comment: topics merged
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We have John Laidlaw married to Joan foster
John Laidlaw married to Christian Guilland - found her death/burial record she died aged 34 of cholera, still quite young and such a shame.
John laidlaw married to my grgran marjory McDonald Charles Ferguson Barron Brown. Had a look at a family history site for Selkirk. could not find a link for it for here. but they are dealing with the Poor law for the area, getting the names together and for burial so maybe one of the moderators might like to obtain the links necessary? Dont know if this is how its done?
Have not as yet had my reply from St. Andrews. uni. Left another message with their Archive Library.
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Marcie, can I offer you some advice? Why don't you focus on one research point at a time, otherwise it gets very confusing to follow your thread for everyone who may happen to look at it and be trying to help. I for one don't understand what the reference to St Andrews University is in the context of your last post for example.
Have you been able to work through on the entry from Register of Corrected Entries (RCEs) that you mentioned in your previous post regarding John Laidlaw?
Monica
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Sorry Monica,
no, run out of credits and wont be able to do any more for a few weeks. Which is why I tried finding a link for the Parish records for Selkirk and Yarrow Family History site.
St. Andrews is a reference to Cornelius Omay in Argyll, so peeps ignore that,
just thought I would let you know, (as requested) that I have not had a response as yet.
next time I will send you a pm if i do and see if I can find a link for anyone else who might want to use their Historical archive.
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Just for reference, if it turns out you need it, this is the link that I think you were trying to find www.bordersfhs.org.uk/Index.asp
Monica
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Thanks monica,
Yes that will be very helpful. On top of everything else, my lap top has decided to play up and won't stay on for very long :-\ the screen keeps going blank. Have gone back to sharing one with OH. Will have to transfer the RCE record over from mine to his and raise it on here.
marcie
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[quote author=marcie dean link=topic=499248.msg3427050#msg3427050 da
found her death certificate, she died of cholera aged 34 I think it said. Cant have been married very long, just long enough to have one child
:-\
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Curious that they did not know when he was born.
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Could someone take a look at the RCE attached and tell me what they think please. Looks to me as though someone wrote in with information pertaining to Johns birth, so does that mean that there is more information to be found if only we know where to look.
Maybe a letter with a copy of this to Edinburgh/Mitchell Library?
marcie
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marcie,
An RCE is there to correct a mistake the original entry and what you have posted is the correction. In the case of births, it can be used to change the name that was origianlly registered. In the case of deaths, it is often the cause of death being added to the entry following a report from the procurator fiscal's office.
It would seem in this case that the date may have been entered incorrectly. It may have been a simple clerical error, but not noticed initially. What did the original entry say? I don't think there is any other information to be found.
Nell
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Little Nell,
will have to find the birth cert and take a look. Hume said that he looked and could not find a birth with parents Margaret Ann Laing/ Lang and William or Charles William Laidlaw.
See the thing is he was supposed to be born in Leith, yet this shows him in Yarrow, the query I have is what deposition? Would this have been something which may have been sent into the registrar to change his name, dob etc and if so, If i write to them do you think they could tell me any more information. Hewas supposed to have been taken in by them, as their own child died on their wedding anniversary, 10 yrs previously, his name was William Walker Laidlaw, wasnt even 1yr when he died. So my grgrandfather must have been a boon to them because I do not think they had any other children, at least I have not found any.
marcie
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Little Nell. Memory is failing.
The RCE is to do with a birth certificate for A John laidlaw but with parents Janet Laidlaw and George Laidlaw, same years, but definately not my grgrandad.
So if the child was not registered now what? Keep thinking that there is something which I am missing. It is a shame that they did not have a register of women who died in childbirth, seperate to everything else. At least the mothers death record would help, if only we knew who she was. Its a shame that she died at all, though I suppose she would have been hounded by them to either give him up to them, or to give him away.
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My Grgrandfather was born in 1872 his name was John Laidlaw.
This is what it states on his marriage certificate and his death certificate,
would his birth have been registered when his birth mother died, if so, would an RCE been raised when he had his name changed by the couple who took him in as their own, knowing that there were no adoption rules or regulations at this time.
If so can I use his death certificate as a way of tracking him to his birth, using the GROS numbers
marcie
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if you are talking about England and Wales the birth should have been registered within 42 days of his birth
it was not necessary for him to change his name if he was adopted he can be called / call himself whatever he liked as long as the purpose was not for fraud.
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Is this his birth?
Sep 1872
Laidlaw John Ralph T Sunderland 10a 576
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There's already a long thread about this on Midlothian board so I've merged it with the new thread started today in Common Room.
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Is this his birth?
Sep 1872
Laidlaw John Ralph T Sunderland 10a 576
Hi groom,
Nice thought, but I do not think so. He was supposed to be born in Scotland, in Leith. What I do not get is unless they were there at the actual birth of the child and death of the mother, I do not see how they could take him and register him as theirs, although I have not seen any proof that they did. No birth certificate with Margaret Ann Laing or Margaret Laidlaw and William Laidlaw on it anywhere. So my question is was he registered under his birth mothers name, which because we do not know what that is we will never find it, unless there is a way of tracking it back using the Gros ref numbers and those that Edinburgh would use as their ref to find him.
This is one brick wall which is not easily going to be broken down.
marcie
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Hi Marcie
Just catching up as I have been away and reading through your latest posts :)
This RCE entry that you have found, I am guessing has come from SP and is connected to a specific birth cert that you have viewed there for the birth of a John Laidlaw?
I am not sure if this RCE/birth cert has anything to do with your John :-\ There is this entry on IGI which I think relates to the possible birth cert you have viewed (although you have quoted different names for parents):
JOHN LAIDLAW Birth: 17 NOV 1873 in Yarrow, Selkirk
Parents: JOHN LAIDLAW and JANET ANDERSON
The informant for the amendment referred to on the RCE shows as John Laidlaw, likely the father to son John, (1872 v. 1873 birth year).
I've been reading though this post again from the beginning. I think most of the info to be found has already been posted by Hume in the very early posts.
- William LAIDLAW and Margaret LAING, married in 1863, Leith
- Charles William LAIDLAW, born 1863, Leith looks to have been the only child born to them. He died at the age of six months from the death cert you have found
- Hume has included census entries for your John, with 'parents' from 1871 to 1891, birth year c. 1869 and born in Edinburgh in all censuses
- From all the info that Hume put together, does look likely that John was taken in very young and raised as the son of William and wife Margaret, who do not look to have had any more children apart from Charles in 1863
Not sure how you can establish who the actual birth parents were of your John unfortunately. John gave William and Margaret (Laing) as his parents on his marriage cert. and same parents were given on his death cert. Without knowing the name at least of his birth mother, you will not be able to establish his birth details. He may well not have know that William and Margaret were not his parents if he was raised by them from at least the age of two where he shows with them on the 1871 census.
Monica
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Hi Monica,
You are quite right. I came to this conclusion. But he did know that they were not his birth parents. His death cert which you found for me, means that he was born abt 1872. That is if his age is correct.
There are only two possibilities of finding out anything one being the newspaper article which was supposed to have been posted in the papers around Edinburgh and two trawling through deaths of women in labour.
I have already tried a third of contacting masons' lodges in Edinburgh, but they are not talking.
Of course with my grandfather dead, I cannot clarify anything or ask questions.
My mum only knows what she was told which is the same as myself and is not much.
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His age on the early censuses between 1871-91 is pretty consistent (born c. 1869) which is probably as close as you are going to get to his actual birth year.
It was Hume who found his death cert which showed an age of 53 in April 1923, so again, a likely birth year of circa 1869.
John Laidlaw died April 4th 1923 at the Royal Infirmary in Edinburgh. He was 53 and parents were registered as you note (William was a cab driver like his son).
Monica
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You very kindly helped me with finding his wife and mother of Charles
which was Christian Guilland or Robertson. I have a date of 1782 for his birth,
so I took a look on SP and came up with 3 alternatives.
John Laidlaw born 1771 parents Alexander and Isobel Caryll (Nrth Leith)
discounted this one due to the date being too far away. the other two were 1797 John Laidlaw, parents John and Janet Cunningham
or 1798 Parents John and Anne Mudie.
Tried plugging in 1782 John Laidlaw, tried Midlothian, tried Edinburgh city no matches.
Tried the IGI and came up with John Laidlaw married a Jean Hog 17th May 1782 in Stow Midlothian batch no M116995, Source 1067791. Wondered whether they are his parents and he was born later in the year. But nothing comes up for a John Laidlaw in that year in a search for a birth. On sp so must be doing something wrong?
Marcie
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5 choices from 1780 - 1785 from Falkirk to Roxburgh and Berwick.
J>L> born 20/02/>1780 Falkirk: Parents: Robert and Barbara Brydon
J.L. born 14/03/1785: Channelkirk, Berwick:Parents: Alexander and Agness Grant
J>L>born 09/04/1783 and bapt:14/03/1785 Peebles:Parents:Thomas &Margaret Ronaldson.
J>L>or Maxwell B:15/09/1780(Cummertrees)Dumfries,Parents:Maxwell & Janet Laidlaw
J>L>bapt 25.09.1785: Hawick, roxburgh: Parents: James Laidlaw and Mary Learmont. and I am none the wiser, need to connect to trees to see where they lead. Marcie