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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Stirlingshire => Topic started by: Seoras on Thursday 27 January 11 00:17 GMT (UK)
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I have been on the trail of my GG grandmother on and off for weeks.Have been trying to find a death.I worked out that she had her last child Jennie in 1886 aged 40 but was missing from the 1901 census so I presumed she had died between those dates.However I noticed on the census her husband was still entered as married and not widowed.Well I finally,sadly found she had died in 1903 in Larbert lunatic asylum.Would this asylum cater for Armadale/Bathgate districts? Does anyone know anything about the place? Would there be any records available anywhere so I can see apart from the obvious why she ended up there.
George.
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Have a wee look here George. It might help.
http://www.falkirk.gov.uk/services/community/cultural_services/museums/archives/medical_records_for_familiy_history.pdf
Page not found.
You can search the Archives here -
http://collections.falkirk.gov.uk/
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Cheers Fergie,will go have a look at that.
George.
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Very useful Fergie,thank you very much.An address and phone number to go on.I will get in touch with them.
Thanks again.
George.
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Hi George
Larbert Lunatic Asylum is still there but is known as Bellsdyke, the guy from Forth Valley NHS is very helpful he sent me details of a relative of mine. I find it strange that someone from Bathgate/Armadale would have went there considering Bangour is just down the road
Steven
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Hi Steven,thanks for that.Still trying to find something out.Though I have been on another trail for a while.I have no idea why she was there.The rest of the family were still in the Armadale/Bathgate area.Her family before marriage were from Bo'ness so it seems a bit strange.
George.
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Hi George
I just re-read your original post and realised the date was 1903, Bangour didn't open until 1906 so Bellsdyke could have been the closest psychiatric unit
Steven
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Hi Steven,I have since been told that she may not have been there with a mental problem,though it is possible.She could have had some disabilitating disease that needed special care.Hopefully I will find out one way or the other.
Thanks for your help.
George.
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Is it Thomas Selbach you are dealing with at Forth Valley NHS, it was him I spoke to, he was very helpful
Steven
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Hi George,
How are you?
My GG Grandmother was in Bellsdyke Hospital in 1901 - the reason was post natal depression. The reasons are amazing that pateints were in here - not like today at all.
I'm close by the hospital, there are still a few partial remaining blocks of the original hospital left (most have been badly damaged by fire now though)
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An aunt of mine died in the Asylum, Larbert of Enteritis - she lived in Avonbridge, near Bathgate.
I think Larbert Asylum was probably a general hospital eventually - that was in 1933.
Hazelnuts.
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...Would this asylum cater for Armadale/Bathgate districts?...
From my own family, it would appear that it did. My mum's great aunt died at Larbert in 1917, although her usual address was in Broxburn [which is even closer to Bangour!]
I suppose it may have depended on the circumstances and the nature of the person's condition. I also think that Bangour was requisitioned as a Military Hospital during WW1, so that perhaps made a difference.
Best wishes
Rockford
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Hi Rockford
You are correct about Bangour and WW1, there was, in fact a rail line direct to the hospital at the time. Bangour developed the top burns/plastic surgery unit in Britain which was still the case into the nineties where it was used during the first Iraq conflict before being transferred to St John's in Livingston.
It is worth bearing in mind that there were two parts to Bangour - the General Hospital (no longer exists) to the north and the Village (Psychiatric) to the south. The Village buildings are still standing although they are unused.
Steven
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Apologies to all who have replied,I don't seem to have been alerted to replies on this thread.Though my GG gran is entered as dying at Larbert,strangely no proof of her being admitted has turned up yet.Interesting the comment on depression as she did have a last child quite late in life and at the time of her death this was the only one left at home with her husband.Are the bulding that are still their the former asylum?
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some of the buildings are still there and in use as a psychiatric unit
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None of the original Bellsdyke Hospital is still in use. There are parts of the original hospital still in existence - mainly being supported by Scaffolding now as in the last few years it has been the target of arsonists.
Mental Health Services are within the remaining Bellsdyke Hospital which consists of Tryst Park, Tryst View and Russell Park. These are fairly new build units, there is also a Therapuetic services unit on site and a shop. THe area is rapidly being surrounded by new housing.
The newly opened Forth Valley Royal hospital is on the site of the former Royal Scottish National Hospital, the old hospital was gradually shut down and patients transferred back to their originating health boards in 1999. There are some Learning Disability units (known as the Bungalows) on the approach to the hospital. Grounds maintenance recently uncovered a tunnel leading from Larbert House (on the RSNH site) to the lake - as yet details of what it would have been used for are a mystery.
If I get a chance I'll go and take some photos of the existing structures. I'm led to believe that permission has recently been given to demolish the old Larbert House and another building at Central Boulevard - not sure how accurate that information is at the moment.
Gill x
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Thanks Gill,that tunnel does seem strange,why would it lead to the lake?
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Another possible reason for being in there could sadly be dementia
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Hi,
I'm looking for contact details for the Larbert Asylum if anyone can help please? My grand uncle died there in May 1902 age 24. Its a little hard to decipher the cause of death, but would appreciate any ones guesses. Thanks
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Hi petbro,
Hope this explains it
Cause of death was Phthisis, a chest illness , a form of TB. Infectious and not pleasant. You didn't necessarily have to be poor or living in bad conditions to contract it.
Several of my ancestors died from the same thing
Sorry can't help with contact details for the Asylum, someone may spot your post as I move it up the board again.
Cheers
lemur41
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Hi petbro,
Hope this explains it
Cause of death was Phthisis, a chest illness , a form of TB. Infectious and not pleasant. You didn't necessarily have to be poor or living in bad conditions to contract it.
Several of my ancestors died from the same thing
Sorry can't help with contact details for the Asylum, someone may spot your post as I move it up the board again.
Cheers
lemur41
Thank you, lemur41. Much appreciated. Yeah, quite a few of my relatives seem to have succumed to TB, though i hadn't heard of it as phthisis. Most death certs stated tuberco etc etc.
Thanks again
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I'm looking for contact details for the Larbert Asylum if anyone can help please?
See Fergie38's post on the first page of this thread - the surviving records of the Stirling District Asylum at Larbert are in Falkirk Council Archives.
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I'm looking for contact details for the Larbert Asylum if anyone can help please?
See Fergie38's post on the first page of this thread - the surviving records of the Stirling District Asylum at Larbert are in Falkirk Council Archives.
thanks, mate. i had read the entire thread, but couldn't work out if anythink had been finalised regards who to contact today.
btw Lol
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Hi petbro
TB & Phthisis are not quite the same things, but would need similar nursing care. Check it out in a dictionary if you haven't already done that
It's likely that your Grand Uncle was in the Larbert Asylum for nursing care for the Phthisis rather than a mental health problem.
Good luck with your search for more info.
lemur41
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TB & Phthisis are not quite the same things, but would need similar nursing care. Check it out in a dictionary if you haven't already done that
That is very interesting - I always thought phthisis was an older or informal name for tuberculosis of the lungs.
My dictionary says
"phthisis: a wasting disease; tuberculosis, especially of the lungs"
"tuberculosis: consumption or phthisis"
"consumption : wasting of the body; pulmonary tuberculosis"
I would be interested to know what is the difference between phthisis and tuberculosis?
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The records of Stirling District Asylum are in the care of Stirling University Archives and part of a project to make them accessible. See http://libguides.stir.ac.uk/content.php?pid=337208&sid=5607777 for information on access etc
[Added] As your uncle died in 1902 there should not be any issue over access to his records, unless there is a restriction due to the last date of entry in a particular volume.
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Hi Forfarian
A good point to raise and I'm not exactly sure, but my thoughts run on how both diseases can be contracted.
The diagnosis of Phthisis was still in use in the medical world about 15 years ago, had a friend given that diagnosis. I was shocked at the time, because as below I had come across the disease
Point of infection proved to be a pet bird, friend made a good recovery with modern drugs.
With my family the loss of 5 of them over an 18 year period all dying in the same house. They were well to do, well nourished, lived in the same house over 40 years, it's nearly 200 years old and still standing.
1st death was 20 year old, dc reads Pulmonary Inflammation +Phthisis
followed 5 years later by 15 year old sibling ( who was 10 when brother died) , mother 6 years later, presumably she had nursed both boys as well .
Then 30 year old sibling 6 years later who was nursed by youngest sister age 27 and she died 18 months after that. All 4 of their dc's just say Phthisis
My x 2 Gt. Grandfather was one of the survivors, + one sibling who emigrated, and one who married and moved county.
I have no idea why the disease ran such a long course through the household, and also no idea if they had any contact with birds !!!http://cdn.rootschat.com/forum/Smileys/classic/smiley.gif
Can birds be a source of infection for TB in humans
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Hi all,
Spoke to Jean at Falkirk Archives (01324 503779) who was a tremendous help as regards both records and burial of my grt uncle J. He was a patient registered as a lunatic (1901 Census states he was feeble minded) but only entered the Asylum due to the Phthisis which he had for over two years. I guess his parents knew he was close to death.
On the animal side of things, J worked and looked after his father's horses - he was a coachman - so could j have contracted it through his work with the horses? I'm due to see my doctor next week so will raise the issue with her and let you know what she says. I hope it won't be the usual 'Google it' reply!!
thanks for the records update link too.
Peter
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I haven't visited this thread for a while but as an update, and with thanks to Guy Etchells who visited the archives and found a wealth of information for me, I can give a conclusion to my original question. It would appear that my great great grandmother was in there for the reason that she was mentally unstable. She had delusions and believed that two of her children were replaced at birth by cats and planned to kill them. Given that one of these children was probably my great grandfather George, I can only be thankful she was foiled. Indeed she was deemed so dangerous that the Procurator Fiscal forbade her release without his say so.
This also clears up the little mystery that of my grandparents five daughters, none were given her name.
Apparently she was in Morningside before Larbert so I think that will be my next stop.
Thanks to all who helped and especially to Guy for his fantastic digging for me.
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Hi there
Can anyone help me with records from the Larbert Asylum. I am wondering if there is somewhere i can obtain copies of records from.
My ancestor was - Alexander SPARK who died there in 1902 and his daughter Janet SPARK who died there 14th May 1909. any help appreciated. hoping the records have photos possibly?
Any help appreciated. the original link at beginning of post does not help.
Cheers
peter from Australia
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I haven't visited this thread for a while but as an update, and with thanks to Guy Etchells who visited the archives and found a wealth of information for me, I can give a conclusion to my original question. It would appear that my great great grandmother was in there for the reason that she was mentally unstable. She had delusions and believed that two of her children were replaced at birth by cats and planned to kill them. Given that one of these children was probably my great grandfather George, I can only be thankful she was foiled. Indeed she was deemed so dangerous that the Procurator Fiscal forbade her release without his say so.
This also clears up the little mystery that of my grandparents five daughters, none were given her name.
Apparently she was in Morningside before Larbert so I think that will be my next stop.
Thanks to all who helped and especially to Guy for his fantastic digging for me.
I think today they would call her condition as Post Puerral Psychosis.
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Hey Scouseboy
Do you have a contact email or something to see if it is possible this Guy Etchells could visit the archives for me to chase up my ancestors? greatly appreciated. Happy to pay a fee to have someone get the records for me. I am in Australia and not somewhere i can easily pop into.
Cheers
Peter spark
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Guy posts on RootsChat. Use the search to find him and send him a Personal Message.