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Some Special Interests => Occupation Interests => Topic started by: amazon510 on Saturday 29 January 11 05:07 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I'm researching the career of Captain William Enon. Shortly after obtaining his first mate's certificate he was promoted to captain of the brigantine Rosebud when the original captain went missing while in port in St. John's, Newfoundland in January 1897.
The crew agreement say the captain, George Beznon (?) (might be Seynon, or possibly even Seymor) was "missing, supposed to be drowned in harbour".
Would this be considered to be a "death at sea"? The harbour master notes in the comments at the end of the agreement that "forms B&D 1 and B&D 3 have been forwarded to London". How would I look up the report that was sent to London?
Jennifer.
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hello jennifer
2 things with your post what is the story behind the surname of george only it,s a long way between beznon to seymour !! also i,m wondering if lloyds of london would be your best bet for a look up as they deal with all ships matters, but could also be in deaths at sea but need more definite surname for him .
trevor
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Have you tried to get the death cert from the Newfoundland register office?
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Was the body ever found? What reports appeared in the Newfoundland papers at the time?
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Isn't there a 'deaths in foreign parts' section in the UK BDM records?
B & D forms would supposedly be forms for reporting births and deaths on / from a British ship?
Dawn M
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Seems his name was George Beynon. Born Fowey 1855. Masters certificate 06932 obtained Plymouth 1882.
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Hi,
The challenge with the name is the handwriting - the captain signed the agreement with something that looks like Beynon (maybe), but the harbour master wrote the name down more like Seymor. Seaweed, I think you found the right man, his place of birth in the crew agreement is Fowey and residence was Plymouth, so I think George Beynon is correct.
I haven't yet had the chance to look up newspapers of the day but that's my next move for sure. Also the newly-minted Captain Enon wrote a letter to London regarding irregularities in the log book and he mentions there was a magistrate's inquiry, so I'll be looking for that as well.
Re the local death records, I haven't looked yet, but I'm not sure if it would actually be in Newfoundland. Given that forms were sent back to London, would that be where the death certificate would be? If this was considered to be a death at sea or a death in foreign parts, would it be recorded locally as well? Surely there wouldn't be two certificates? Or would there?
I also am intrigued about the BD1 and BD3 forms - a little taste of Victorian bureaucracy. Why two forms I wonder?
Jennifer
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Actually I'm an idiot - now that I squint a little bit more I can see he actually wrote his certificate number above his position on the ship - 06932. George Beynon for sure.
J.
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If the "Rosebud" was a British ship the captain would have to report deaths (& births) to UK authorities as having happened 'on British territory' wouldn't he?
Have you looked in the UK records Jennifer?
Dawn M
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Jennifer - Where did you find the crew agreement relating to George Beynon?
Seems his name was George Beynon. Born Fowey 1855. Masters certificate 06932 obtained Plymouth 1882.
Seaweed - Where did you get that info from? I'm desperately trying to find my g.grandfather who was supposed to be a fisherman/trawlerman/seaman.
Lizzie
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The information came from the on line index of Lloyd's Captains Registers.
It only includes Masters/Captains of foreign going vessels and would not give details of fisherman/trawlerman/seaman.
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Ok, thanks Seaweed, that's a shame.
Lizzie
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Hi LizzieW - I found the crew agreement at the Maritime History Archive in Newfoundland. They have most, but not all, of the crew agreements. I was actually tracing my g-grandfather who was also a sailor/fisherman.
It was a bit of a stroke of luck that I found him at all, because while captains were registered, ordinary seamen were not. You need to know the ship, then you can look up the crew agreement if it still exists. I found my g-grandfather because my grandfather recalled his father used to visit a Captain Enon. I gambled that maybe they had sailed together. I looked up the captain, looked up what ships he served on, and then looked up the crew agreements. Got lucky on the first ship.
Crew agreements exist for foreign going vessels and coasting vessels, but fishing vessels under a certain size didn't need to be registered. Whether there is any record of your g-grandfather will depend on what kinds of ships he worked on. And, you need a ship or a captain's name. If you haven't seen it already, the Crew List Index Project has a good discussion on how to find seafarers: http://www.crewlist.org.uk/findingonindexes.html
Jennifer.
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Hi Dawn,
I haven't looked in the UK records - I'm in Canada and don't have ready access. Before I start hunting, I have basically the same question as you - if an English captain falls off his ship into a colonial harbour, who registers the death? I've read the National Archives page on BMD at sea and I am not at all clear.
(I'm reminded of a Canadian movie which starts with a dead body hanging on the boundary sign between Quebec and Ontario. Much jurisdictional humour ensues.)
Jennifer.
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YES It's a bit of a quandary isn't it?
I'm in Australia so I know what you mean about access. But I thought you could access these UK BDMs online and order certs online? Don't know as I haven't tried.
Dawn M
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Jennifer
Therein lies the problem. I don't know which ships my g.grandfather was on. He was on the 1891 census living with my g.gran who is shown as "wife", so either she put him on herself, or he was not at sea on that occasion. He was shown as a fisherman in 1884 on my gran's birth certificate. His life before that is a complete mystery. By the time of the 1901 census he has left the life of fishing.
Lizzie
ps. I already transcribe for CLIP (Crew List Index Project) in the, so far, vain hope that I may come across my g.grandfather.
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Lizzie, Where did he live at the time of your grandmother's birth registration? I realise I am probably tramping over old ground but I hope it was a fishing port like Grimsby or Hull.
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hello all
just had a look in both ancestry and free bmd and both give this as the earliest birth for a george lucas beynon born cornwall mar 1856 dist st austell vol 5c p 139 .
lizzie if you have an english look up you want doing let,s have the name and i,ll do my best to help
trevor
ps should also have said there is no death reg for g beynon in eng for the time frame your looking at not that i can find if that helps
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Which suggests possibly the death was registered in Newfoundland, or maybe fell "through an administrative crack" between the 2 jurisdictions and was never registered.
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Roger - He lived in Hull at the time of my gran's birth, but was apparently born in Bethnel Green. I have no idea when he went to Hull. I've found newspaper cuttings that, if they relate to him, then he was in Hull in 1879.
Trevor - If by any chance the man in the newspaper cuttings is my g.grandfather, then he was the owner of a ship called Fortitude. On CLIP this has the number 60210, first registered in 1870. He could also have been a member of the crew of a ship called Gratitude 65284, skipper Alfred Whittleton or a ship called Pioneer 60223, skipper A Button/G Wright.
My g grandfather's name was George William Wright, born Middlesex, possibly Bethnal Green (but that is only from census 1891-1911), born sometime between about 1857 and 1860ish. Not very helpful I know.
Lizzie
ps. Sorry I have hi-jacked this thread.
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Yes. It seems to be getting a little confusing. So back to the original topic
Posted by Redroger.
Which suggests possibly the death was registered in Newfoundland, or maybe fell "through an administrative crack" between the 2 jurisdictions and was never registered.
Posted by t mo
ps should also have said there is no death reg for g beynon in eng for the time frame your looking at not that i can find if that helps
The attachment to my first post, Reply #5, was a copy of the GRO Marine Death Indices 1897. I thought people would have recognised this. Sorry for any assumption.
No doubt his death was also recorded by the Registrar General of Shipping and Seamen. The relevent records are contained within the series BT334 at Kew. The information contained would be
Name of ship, official number, port of registry, date of death, place of death, name of deceased, sex, age, rating [for seamen], rank or profession or occupation [for non-seamen], nationality and birthplace, last place of abode, cause of death, remarks.
Given that most of this information has already been given in this thread, there would seem little point trying to obtain this file from Kew.
amazon 510
Did your ROSEBUD have the official number 87483, 47947 or 88880? If not could you tell me what number it was please.
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I ought to have realised that the list was part of an official document, but thanks for the clarification.
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The Rosebud in question was ON 47974. Capt. Beynon's last voyage on her began Oct. 26, 1897, and terminated April 12, 1898 (without Capt. Beynon, obviously).
Theystarted out from Glasgow, going to St. John's via Greenock with a load of coal. After the death of Beynon, Captain Enon signed on a whole new local crew and carried on, taking the ship down to Brazil and Barbados (presumably with a load of dried fish), then back to St. John's, then again to Brazil and Trinidad, then back to London. They had a stowaway on the first trip down to Brazil, so Capt. Enon signed him on as a cabin boy for 1 shilling a week. He deserted in Barbados.
I have had some progress re the death of Capt. Beynon. A note written by his successor, Capt. Enon, made reference to a magistrate's inquiry into the affair. I had a look in the Newfoundland archives and found the proceedings of the magisterial inquiry into "the death or mysterious disappearance of George Beynon, Captain of the Brigantine Rosebud which occured on Monday Jan 11, 1897." It contains sworn statements from first mate Enon, Samuel Wilkinson the Boatswain, Richard Vogler, ordinary seaman, James Mann, agent for the owner, James Gearin, a pilot who had previously sailed with Beynon, and Dr. Fraser the attending physician.
The conclusion of the attending physician was that the captain was very ill from chronic alcoholism and probably fell overboard as a result. He was already very sick before they left England and had spent 3 days under doctor's care in Greenock. He contacted the owners in Greenock and asked to be relieved of command but was refused. On arrival in St. John's, he spent two weeks under doctor's care, staying at the agent's home, but then returned to his ship.
Capt. Enon and the boatswain tried very hard to avoid discussing Beynon's drinking, attributing his illness to other causes, and both spoke very highly of him. However after the testimony of Vogler, Gearin and the doctor, Enon was recalled and in his second statment admitted that yes, the captain had been drinking and the doctor had told Enon to take chare of the key for the store room so Beynon couldn't get any more.
Someother interesting notes from the statements - apparently Beynon's wife had sailed on most of the voyages, but on this voyage had left the ship at Greenock and gone home to Plymouth. There is even a mention that she sometimes operated the chronometer.
Finally, there is a rather gruesome account of two night watchmaen who found the body on May 29.
J.
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A great piece of research. Well done. May I ask the source/s of your information?
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I had a look in the Newfoundland archives
I presume as you have a Canadian flag as your avatar that you live in Canada. Does that mean that you physically went to the Newfoundland archives?
Lizzie
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Source for the inquiry is GN 5/3/A11, Magistrate's Court Central Circuit Minutes box 212, Newfoundland Provincial Archives.
The source for the Rosebud is the crew agreement for the voyage in question. I found it in the course of researching my g-grandfather's career as a seaman. I remembered my grandfather saying his father used to go visit "Captain Enon", who owned a shop in downtown St. John's. I took a guess that perhaps he had sailed with Captain Enon. I found a William Enon on a 1930s Newfoundland census, then looked him up in Lloyd's Captain's register. The Rosebud was Enon's first vessel, and to my delight, I found my g-grandfather on the 1897 crew agreement - he was one of the St. John's crew Enon signed on after he took command of the ship. I think it was my g-grandfather's first foreign-going voyage.
Lizzie:
Happily I live in Newfoundland and I was able to go there myself. They have evening hours on Wednesday night, so that's the only time I can get there.
J.
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Happily I live in Newfoundland and I was able to go there myself. They have evening hours on Wednesday night, so that's the only time I can get there.
Lucky you. They charge quite a substantial amount to look things up for people and then you already have to know the ship's name or number, they can't search on a name. So for someone like me, who doesn't know the name of the ship(s) their ancestor was on, it's hopeless.
Lizzie
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Hi Lizzie,
The crew agreements are at the Maritime History Archive, not the provincial archives. MHA have rotten hours, daytime only and they close for lunch so basically I can never get there even though I live in the same town. And yes, without a ship name it's tough. I had a bit of a stroke of luck to find my g-grandfather on the Rosebud. I've traced his travels to 1900 in South Africa, but so far no luck finding his next ship, so I feel your pain.
J.
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Hi J
I am researching Capt Enon......he is related to a friend who asked me to do her family tree - found your messages very interesting and in case you are interested I have a number of Enons discharge papers from various sailings which are too large filewise to post here