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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: Leoni on Wednesday 02 February 11 06:48 GMT (UK)
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Hi :)
Please can anyone assist me with any information on Edwin Brooks born 1890 in England.
(Full Name: Edwin Bernard Brooks - later known as Edwin Bernard Brooks-Benning - suspected that his mother divorsed Brooks father (or became a widow) and she remarried Benning hence the Brooks-Benning surname later on)
Possible birth town Surrey - not confirmed.
He later immigrated to South Africa - not sure when. In November 1936 he was 46 years old when my mother was born in South Africa.
I had previous queries about him on Roots chat last year (had the wrong birth year on those queries due to lack of info) but I now have my mother's birth certificate which might help finding more history information about my grandfather in England. See attached.
If anyone can help find more information (His parents, siblings etc.) Whether he finished highschool in england, or studied, and when he immigrated to South Africa.
(According to my mother he was an Accountant if that might help)
Hope to hear from you soon.
thanks so much
Leoni :)
Certificate removed at the posters request 2014
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As long as you are sure Edwin was born in Surrey, then:
Births, December qtr 1889 Guildford Vol 2a Page 65
Brooks, Edwin
1891 census, reference RG12, Piece 557, Folio 20, Page 34
Lamberts Cottages, Mays Corner, Send, Surrey
Brooks, William Head M 30 Gardener Jobbing b Send
Brooks, Anna Wife F 31 b Send
Brooks, Henrietta Daughter F 6 b Send
Brooks, Elizabeth Daughter F 3 b Send
Brooks, Edwin Son M 1 b Send
Probable first marriage:
December qtr 1883 Guildford district Vol 2a, Page 130
Brooks, William George
Collyer, Hannah
1901 census, reference RG14, Piece 600, Folio 9, Page 10
Cart Bridge, Send, Surrey
Brooks, Hannah Head Widow F 40 Laundress b Send
Brooks, Edwin Son M 11 b Send
Brooks, George W Son M 9 b Send
Brooks, Emily K Daughter F 7 b Send
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Can't see a remarriage for Hannah to a Mr Benning.
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I was thinking that maybe the 2nd marriage was in ZA?
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Hi Leoni,
It has been a while since you posted but wanted to try and recap where you are upto with Edwin.
Have you managed to find a Marriage Certificate for Edwin yet that would confirm his father's name? I think that you did mention that you had a death certificate for Edwin does this say where in England he was born??
Regards
Sarah :)
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Hi Sarah :-)
Thank you for your post and interest. Also thank you to those who already contributed to previous valuable information supplied on my post.
Unfortunately I have had no luck in finding my roots thus far. Yes I have some documents indicating that my grandfather was born in England. It seems like back in those days they weren't too worried about detailed information in our country, so I guess states / cities / towns were not that important to record. There's only one England and that was good enough for them I guess (hehehe)... sadly this makes it hard to find him though.
I have an unabridged death certificate of my grandfather but it only mentions his birth country: England, but no further details. See attached file.
I also have my mother's unabridged birth certificate, specifying that Edwin Bernard Brooks-Benning is her father, born in England, but no additional information. See attached file.
I have my mothers hand written birth certificate too where it also specifies his birth country being England, and it confirmed my previous suspicion of him being a Bookkeeper, again no other information about where in England he was from. I am not sure whether his bookkeeping title was based on work experience or whether he perhaps studied towards this. If he studied, it was not in South Africa and therefore suspect he only came to South Africa at a mature age, but it's only a wild guess.
He was definitely born in 1890, I received a hand written marriage certificate, not a unabridged system printed one yet, I must still request this again from our department of home affairs, the first attempt failed, but now that I have the hand written one I can try again. It only says he married my grandmother on 31 December 1935 at the Pretoria Magistrates Court. He was age 45, she was 21, big age gap, but there is no parent details listed on there for my grandfather unfortunately (or grandmother either). According to the marriage certificate it seems like my grandmother was his second wife as his marital status on the marriage certificate specifies divorcee.
I went through our South African archives records and cannot find any court divorce records for a Edwin Brooks, Edwin Benning or Edwin Brooks-Benning, and therefore suspect his first marriage and divorce must've been in a different country maybe.
It's really hard to try and trace my grandfather back to England with such little information. My mother says he was born in Surrey, she's still alive, age 77 now, but she was 6 when he passed away and can't remember much about him. My grandmother was not that keen on sharing details about my grandfather, and when she later on remarried, she destroyed all documents relating to my British grandfather. The only records I could recover was the ones I received this week from our department of social affairs, the hand written birth and marriage certificates. (I waited 4 months for these)
One thing I forgot to mention before is that I have 1 photo of my grandfather, not a good one, it's old and faded, but he's the tall man standing at the back on the left - I attached it. Don't think this might be of any use though. My mother has no idea who the other people in this photo are.
In the census records I can only find 3 x Edwin Brooks born 1890 in England of which one is Surrey, but none with the surname Benning or Brooks-Benning for 1890.
I've tried passenger lists, but there's so many ports, and did they perhaps travel via Canada or US first then to South Africa as I see many came to South Africa via that route for some reason. And also not knowing when they arrived in South Africa makes it hard, but I am currently working on immigrant lists hoping I'd find anything that indicates possible arrival dates.
I have found an interesting record on our national archives South Africa database, although I'm sure it's more likely just coincidence. It's of a Anna Louisa Brooks, widow of William Brooks, the information on the site is about William Brooks's death notice / grave stone issued in 1929, but nothing else I can go on.
It's the same two names that was mentioned in UK census 1891 in a previous post for Anna & William Brooks with a son named Edwin age 1 (therefore born 1890):
1891 census, reference RG12, Piece 557, Folio 20, Page 34
Lamberts Cottages, Mays Corner, Send, Surrey
Brooks, William Head M 30 Gardener Jobbing b Send
Brooks, Anna Wife F 31 b Send
Brooks, Henrietta Daughter F 6 b Send
Brooks, Elizabeth Daughter F 3 b Send
Brooks, Edwin Son M 1 b Send
But I can't find any concrete information indicating that these two coincidences might be a match, I am still investigating this matter. If it's them then there's the mystery of how Edwin Brooks surname went from Brooks to Brooks-Benning.
This is all I have so far - but I won't stop trying. Any advice or information anyone can supply on finding my grandfather in England will be appreciated, more than you'll ever know. Every time I find a piece of information about my grandfather, I see that sparkle in my mother's eye. It completes her, and at the same time me too.
Have a lovely day and thank you,
Leoni
Details of Birth Certificate
Child Brooks-Benning
Born 1930's
Pretoria
Father Edwin Bernard Brooks-Benning
Date of Birth 46 years suggesting birth 1890
Place of Birth "England"
Mother Hester Johanna Theron
22 Years
Orange Free State
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Hi again Leoni
The Edwin Brooks you've found in Send was a son of William George Brooks and Hannah (aka Anna) nee Collyer who had married at Send on 25 December 1883.
Edwin was a chauffeur when, aged 30, he married Violet Elizabeth Newberry (25) in Bletchingley, Surrey on 11 Jan 1920.
His address was Ivy Cottage, Send. Father: William George Brooks, gardener.
Edwin & Violet appear to have had a daughter in the Guildford registration district in 1921. It's too recent to post her details but you can search FreeBMD with Brooks as surname and Newberry as mother's name.
www.freebmd.org.uk
In fact her name is potentially interesting in the context of the female Brooks-Benning mentioned on one of your other threads who when she died in South Africa in 1951 was married to Raoul Raymond Harter. Perhaps worth following up to see whether there may be a connection.
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Wow this is fantastic! You have been of so much help. Regarding your comment about the daughter, I found her death records in South Africa and can investigate it further from there, previously I could not find any information about her parents. You gave me the confirmation I needed, so I finally found my possible ancestors! I am so excited. I will look into this a.s.a.p.
I can't thank you enough.
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You're welcome - glad to help - though I'd caution against jumping to any conclusions about these people being the right ones :)
I do think Mrs Harter, formerly Brooks-Benning, is a really important lead to follow up as there appear to be so few records of anybody by the name of Brooks-Benning.
Incidentally, this looks likely to be her husband's gravestone:
www.eggsa.org/library/main.php?g2_itemId=1669582
Do let us know what you discover.
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I agree with you 100% about not making any conclusions - but believe me this is the first break through I've had since I started my research. I will follow up on that file, the site I use for our records retrieval is only a reference guide so I will have to take off from work to go to the library to retrieve the actual file and see what information is available in there. Once I've done so I will let you know of the outcome :-)
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Is there perhaps be any relation between these two William George Brooks men?
The William married to Anna Collyer mentioned in the previous posts, and the one that married Louisa Benning.
found on FreeBMD
Marriages Jun 1864
Benning Louisa Lambeth 1d 483
Brooks William George Lambeth 1d 483
George Brooks and Louisa Benning seems like the perfect couple who'd register their children as brooks-benning- but I can't pick up that they had a son or perhaps grandson named Edwin though. :-)
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this is what i can find under William George Brooks and Louisa Benning - pure coincidence I guess with their surnames... no Edwin listed here:
Husband: William George BROOKS
Birth/Chris:
... 1836 at ...
Death/Burial: at ...
Wife Louisa BENNING
Married 1867
________________________________________
Children:
1. BROOKS, James Benning - at ...
2. BROOKS, Louisa H - Birth/Chris: ... 1869 at ...
3. BROOKS, Alice Mary - at ...
4. BROOKS, Edgar William - at ...
5. BROOKS, Annie Caroline Maude - Birth/Chris: ... 1876 at ...
6. BROOKS, Charles A - Birth/Chris: ... 1878 at ...
7. BROOKS, Hilda M - Birth/Chris: ... 1880 at ...
8. BROOKS, Arthur Ernest - Birth/Chris: ... 1885 at ...
9. , Ivy VLBROOKS - Birth/Chris: ... 1888 at ...
10. BROOKS, Frederick G - Birth/Chris: ... 1890 at ...
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Hi again :-)
Is it possible to check whether the Brooks family mentioned in the 1891 census was listed anywhere in England in the 1901 and 1911 census? If there's listings of them later on, was there perhaps any additions to the family? A sister maybe born in 1895?
1891 census, reference RG12, Piece 557, Folio 20, Page 34
Lamberts Cottages, Mays Corner, Send, Surrey
Brooks, William Head M 30 Gardener Jobbing b Send
Brooks, Anna Wife F 31 b Send
Brooks, Henrietta Daughter F 6 b Send
Brooks, Elizabeth Daughter F 3 b Send
Brooks, Edwin Son M 1 b Send[/size][/i]
Here's a follow up on Edwin & Violet Brooks's investigation about their daugther :D I collected the 1951 death notice at our archives library, turned out it's not the same person :'( but instead I found information that triggered the 1901 and 1911 census request.
Mrs. Harter, born Brooks-Benning was born 2 April 1895, 5 years after my grandfather. She died 20 January 1951. Sadly the "parents of deceased" section on the death notice only says "deceased", no names/information supplied (very frustrating). The death notice says she was age 58 when she passed away, but if you do the math, she was actually 56, not 58.
Leoni
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We can't give you any details fgrom 1911 - copyright & legal issues!
1901 census: Class: RG13; Piece: 600; Folio: 9; Page: 10
Cart Bridge, Send & Ripley, Surrey
Brooks, Hannah Head Widow F 40 Laundress b Send
Brooks, Edwin Son M 11 b Send
Brooks, George Son M 9 b Send
Brooks, Emily K Daughter F 7 b Send
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Mrs. Harter, born Brooks-Benning was born 2 April 1895, 5 years after my grandfather. She died 20 January 1951. Sadly the "parents of deceased" section on the death notice only says "deceased", no names/information supplied (very frustrating). The death notice says she was age 58 when she passed away, but if you do the math, she was actually 56, not 58.
Does the document give any indication as to where she was born?
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Henrietta was a servant in 1901:
Class: RG13; Piece: 486; Folio: 114; Page: 14
9 Patten Road, Wandsworth, Surrey
Foster, William Head Widow M 75 Living on Own Means b Ockley, Surrey
Brooks, Henrietta Servant F 18 General Servant, Domestic b Woking, Surrey
(Send is practically in Woking!)
Elizabeth is also a servant:
Class: RG13; Piece: 602; Folio: 44; Page: 19
Nightingale Road, Stoke-next-Guildford, Surrey
Harding, William Head M 60 Farm Steward b Horsham, Sussex
Brooks, Elizabeth Servant F 13 General Servant, Domestic b Send, Surrey
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Thank you for the information below.
yes, place of origin says Cape Province (in South Africa) - But this estate file has a few inconsistencies starting from the Will to the Antenuptial Contract drawn up 1 year before her death. (dates / surnames etc.) Her surviving husband, Mr. Harter, completed the hand written death notice I have, and some of his info doesn't correspond with info on the will / antenuptial contract etc. Too much detail to mention but for one, he wrote her incorrect age on the death notice which is weird. Her birth date is only specified on the antenuptial contract, nowhere else, not even on the death notice, and the hand written death notice is the only document that specifies place of origin.
That's why I'm querying the 1901 census. Maybe Winifred was actually born in England, linking her to my grandfather, Edwin, perhaps. If so, then it is possible that the 1891 Brooks family could be my ancestors.
If there's no sister, Winifred, born in 1895 in England with a brother Edwin Brooks born in 1890 (my grandfather), then Winifred Harter whom I have the death notice of, is of no relation to me, then her being born Brooks-Benning is pure coincidence.
There's also the possibility that my grandfather's parents immigrated to S.A. shortly after he was born. Narrowing down my immigrants list from 1890-1895. And then the Brooks family mentioned in the 1891 census won't be my ancestors because Edwin and Violet was still in England in 1921 when their daughter was born.
Many questions / speculations in my head. I'm trying to work on every possibility to try and find information about my grandfather :-)
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Hi Leoni. You haven't said what the surname inconsistencies are regarding Winifred, but from the docuemnts you have is there any possibility that she was in fact Edwin's first wife, and that her maiden name was something else?
Am I right in understanding that the antenuptial contract was only drawn up a year before her death? This would suggest she was only married a year or less to Raoul in her fifties. Plenty of time to have had one or more marriages before.
Since she is the only person of Edwin's generation found anywhere with the very rare Brooks-Benning name combination, and shares a South African connection, I wouldn't discard her from the picture just yet.
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Hi :-)
Thank you, nope not discarding her, I want to know who she is but I'm just playing out the different scenarios of what if's in my head :-) I kind of feel lost because there's so many directions this can go into. I do think she has some sort of link (my gutt tells me shes my grandfathers sister because of the brooks-benning surname similarity and them being born 5 years apart - but one born in England and the other in S.A. - bit weird, unless the immigration happened within that period of time) one would think it's easy to find an ancestor... hehe ;D
Here's what I could see what doesnt quite make sense.
It seems like Raoul Harter was her 3rd husband if I look at the amount of surnames and what I can make out on the death notice.
The death notice reads"No children by the surviving spouse, subsequent to the diseased HS Armstrong, Fernhead whom she was divorced no children of that marriage"
There's no information about the first husband except the surname Fernhead, second was Harold Staveley Armstrong, they had a daughter Jean, Harold passed away 7 August 1936, and then she married Raoul Harter born 14 September 1900. She nominated Raoul Harter as her executor and left most of her valuables to her daughter, the balance was to be divided as per executor's discretion.
What seems odd is that the death notice says Armstrong was the 2nd Husband but the Antenuptial Contract mentions her as Winifred May Langford Fernhead, born Brooks-Benning.... what happened to Armstrong?
Mrs. Harter's will says her daughter's name is Jean Staveley Fern (born Armstrong), also weird because the Death Notice says it's Jean Stevely Epstein, born Armstrong. (She perhaps got married to Epstein but why the Fern on the Will then?)
Perhaps the order of the husbands was incorrect on the death notice Mr. Harter wrote, maybe Armstrong was the first husband, which will explain the Antenuptial surname referral.
Then there's the age issue. The Antenuptial Contract says she was born 2nd day of April 1895 of Johannesburg which is located in a different state (Gauteng) than Cape Province. The Death Notice says she died 20 January 1951 at age 58, and 9 months (supposed to be 56), birth place and nationality says Cape Province. I can't make out the town name, it looks like Mount Frere, there is a mount Frere in our Eastern Cape state.
I still can't get the age thing though... I'm sure a husband won't get his wife's age wrong? But why the birth date on the antenuptial contract? Can that be a typo then?
It seemed like she died while on holiday because her place of death is Badplaas Hotel near Carolina in our Mpumalanga state, it's a holiday resort.
Only additional information on the death notice is that her occupation is a Consulting Engineer, makes sense why she had so many valuables.
I could e-mail these for private viewing if required, let me know.
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I wouldn't read anything into the age thing on Winifred's death. She was 55 yrs 9 months which is only a slip of a pen away from 58 yrs 9 months. It's perfectly possible that a mistake was made and this happens very commonly in family history - death certificates often contain errors as to the age and birthdate of the deceased, who obviously is not in a position to correct them!
The documents created during Winifred's life, into which she will have had input, are likely to be more reliable about her biographical information.
There is a Harold Staveley Armstrong who was born in Leeds, his birth registered in the first quarter of 1885. There are various possible travel records to and from South Africa but at least some of them relate to a different man of the same age, a Harold Simon Armstrong (wine merchant) whose wife was Sutu Alfreda, so beware of that.
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thank you for the information about Harold Staveley Armstrong. I will follow up on this. :-)
I agree with you about the age thing on the death notice, and that's what makes me wonder if her surviving spouse Raoul Harter perhaps didn't record her birth place incorrectly too. It would be interesting to know if there's a family that has a Edwin 1890 and Winifred 1895 Brooks listed as children anywhere on the 1901 census
I will see if I can get more information on Winnifred as well as her daughter perhaps.
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There is a public tree on A******y that has an Edwin Barnard BROOKS, born 1889 England, died 3 Jan 1943 Pretoria. Has his father as John BROOKS, but no other info or names mentioned.
Ian C
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Hi Ian,
Thank you so much for the info - funny you should mention these particular details, my initial post in 2010 / 2011 was for birth year 1889, death 3 Jan 1943... my mother also mentioned back then that she sort off remembers a brother John, but because she was so young when he died, the brother John might have been his father, this info she gave me matches your information below.
Here's quotes of 2 posts I submitted in February 2010:
"Can anyone please help me with information about Edwin Bernard Brooks, born 4 July 1889 in Reigate, Surrey, England.
I need family history of him. Schools he might have attended, brother, mother and father names etc. where he lived, anything will be helpful.
He passed away 3 January 1943 in South Africa"
and then also:
"Full name: Edwin Bernard Brooks-Benning
Born 4 July 1889 in Reigate, Surrey, England
Had one brother we know of named: Johnny (maybe a nickname for John)
He was a member of the High Church of England"
But these were of course information I had before I received the death certificate from our department of home affairs and saw that his actual death was 14 January 1943, not the 3rd of Jan, they have no birth date on his death certificate or any other document, only his age, but if I subtracted his age on his marriage certificate, my mothers birth certificate and his death certificate, it seemed like he was rather born 1890 and not 1889 - but, I've noticed on most of our ancestry records that there's inconsistencies with dates, human error etc.
Thank you again, I really appreciate this and will follow up on this.
Are there any census information for a Edwin Brooks born 1889 with a father John in the 1891 and 1901 census perhaps?
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Leoni, I've now had a chance to look at the Winifred documents you sent by PM.
From these you can extract the following timeline:
1895 (02 Apr): Born as Winifred May Langford Brooks-Benning at Mount Frere, Cape Province, South Africa.*
1st marriage: to Harold Staveley Armstrong. Daughter J born to that marriage (may be alive so can't be named here - you have her birth name and 2 possible subsequent married names for her).
1936 (07 Aug): Death of Harold Staveley Armstrong.
2nd marriage: to Wilfred Fearnhead (ended in divorce, no children with him).
1950 (14 Apr): Antenuptial agreement drawn up in contemplation of 3rd marriage.
3rd marriage: to Raoul Raymond Harter, probably a consulting engineer**. She was married to him when she died, no children with him.
1951 (25 Jan): Date of Winifred's death notice; informant was her husband Raoul.
From the list of jewellery and artwork left to her daughter J I think it can safely be inferred that Winifred was comfortably-off. Incidentally, here is what appears to be a copy of the "Dagga Smoker" bronze figure she refers to in the will (I say a copy because Bonhams have said it is "after" Anton van Wouw rather than attributing it to him).
http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/17848/lot/3/
*NB the antenuptial agreement of 14 April 1950 does not contradict the Cape Province birthplace. It simply tells you that as at that date of that document (14 April 1950) she was "of Johannesburg", not that she had been born in Johannesburg.
** the occupation on the death notice of "consulting engineer" is probably Raoul's. The question asks for "occupation in life of the deceased or, if a woman, of her husband".
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Thank you for laying it out in such a logical way, it makes a lot more sense now and I'm sure I must find something relating to this information somewhere.
Just a general update:
I'm currently investigating the life of Winifred, but I think best would be to request an unabridged birth certificate from our department of home affairs based on the information we have. (if they'll allow me to request it without proof that she's family) It can take anything from 8 weeks up until 6 months. Our home affairs department don't classify ancestral document requests as 1st priority. So I'll only have this available at a much later stage. I'll however keep on searching online in the mean time.
I also phoned a few places today, local immigration offices - they could not assist, by the time I was referred to the 6th department I decided to give it up for today - Mondays are perhaps not such a good day for ancestral research, hehe, will continue another day. Online I'm getting nowhere yet with passenger lists / immigration info, mostly due to a lack of information, but I'll keep on looking. I'm hopefully seeing someone within the next two weeks who can guide me as to how to go about getting our ancestral local immigration records.
A little humor, sorry I have to share this, I found it quite amusing (yet frustrating) :-) I tried to find out whether there's maybe any records of an Edwin Bernard Brooks that might have been adopted which might explain the surname change from Brooks to Brooks-Benning, I'm not saying he was adopted, I don't know, but I have to keep an open mind because anything is possible.
They however refused to do a search, they insisted on getting my grandfathers permission, even when trying to explain to them that he's dead, and suggesting that my mother can maybe give her consent to allow a general search just to get an indication - they still refused and insisted on having his permission, hehehe (I do respect their privacy policy and rules)
I'm also trying to retrieve our local census information, not finding anything yet.
If I do manage to find anything else of use, I'll post an update.
I want to thank everyone that helped me thus far. Every bit of information is truly appreciated.
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A little bit more on Winifred Brooks-Benning's first husband Harold Staveley Armstrong:
He was a chemist & druggist, admitted to the relevant professional body in the UK in 1906.
He was then registered as a chemist & druggist in South Africa on 10 November 1927. At that time his address was c/o Messrs Lennon, Ltd., Bloemfontein.
See: www.rootschat.com/links/0xl7/
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Thank you for the additional info about Winifred :-) I will continue to look for any info about her and Harold. These are solid leads I can try and trace this side.
I really appreciate your dedicated help :-)
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[extract] ... There is a Harold Staveley Armstrong who was born in Leeds, his birth registered in the first quarter of 1885. There are various possible travel records to and from South Africa but at least some of them relate to a different man of the same age, a Harold Simon Armstrong (wine merchant) whose wife was Sutu Alfreda, so beware of that.
Hi: I have just found this input which was posted in January 2014. I am interested in the other Harold Armstrong i.e Harold Simon Armstrong, wine merchant, with South African connections and his wife Sutu Alfreda (nee Cory, I suspect strongly). Please could you tell me the source of your information? Many thanks indeed.
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat
You will find passenger lists for Harold and Sutu (and in one case a daughter D* born c1930) on Ancestry.
*full name not posted in case she is still living.
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Many thanks indeed. I will check the passenger lists on Ancestry as you suggest.
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Hello
My name is, Lorraine Coulson. My great Grandfather was Raymond Raoul Harter, his mother was Bertha Louise Harter nee French.
I would appreciate any information on him.
Thank you
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I forgot to mention that I live in South Africa. Both my grandfather (Raymond) and his mother Bertha Louise are buried in Durban Stellawood Cematery.