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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cambridgeshire => England => Cambridgeshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: tracerstlm on Thursday 03 February 11 16:40 GMT (UK)
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I have had no luck in finding a marriage between Thomas Ward (b. 1798 in Fenstanton) and Mary ?? (b. abt 1800 in Bluntisham). They are living in Witchford by the 1841 census with children Thomas (b. 1826), William (b. 1830), Daniel (b. 1835) and Rose Ann (b. 1842). There is also a stepson, Thomas Isberton (b. abt 1822). I am trying to confirm when Thomas Ward married Mary and which children are hers. I have not found baptism records on any of the children nor marriage records for Thomas and Mary nor Mary and a Mr. ?? Isberton. BMD database on Ancestry.com doesn't seem to have any of them. Any help much appreciated!
Regards,
Tracy
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as Rose Ann was born aftr 1837 she should have a birth cert .. which should clarify MAry's maiden name
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Cambs Baptism Index at http://www.cfhs.org.uk/Search.html , which I gave you on the other board, shows Daniel and earlier children to be the children of Thomas and Ann, not Mary. But in 1851 they have William 20 born Littleport and the baptism index has an 1830 baptism of William Ward, son of Thomas and Mary at Littleport. Very odd!
On the face of it Mary's name should be Isberton but there are no references to that name that I can find
I agree with lizdb
David
Still working on it, but must dash now as I have a rendezvous with a barman
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Yes, I have gone in so many directions I'm getting confused! William is my concern, I have not been able to get confirmation on the mother from my contact in Littleport and he's before 1837 so I cannot get a birth certificate from the GRO. I ordered his marriage certificate, so I finally have definitive confirmation that his father is Thomas, but the mother eludes me. The search continues and I will follow both your suggestions! Thanks for the help! :)
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This is definitely strange. I'm not getting any hits on the earlier children at all except for Daniel, son of Thomas and Ann and William, son of Thomas and Mary. I don't know why only William was born in Littleport. His sister, Edith, marries and lives in Littleport and raises William's daughter, Elizabeth. Sorry to repeat, I've been focused on a million other lines and just came back to this one following some great Ward family discoveries in Fenstanton!
Thanks again! :-)
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I've had a quick look at Bluntisham and Witchford PRs on fiche but no luck with the marriage-Bluntisham doesn't have an index which didn't help.
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There is a marriage at Witchford on 3 December 1832 between Thomas Ward widr otp and Mary Saberton wid otp, witnesses John Ward and William Haylock.
Selina
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Nice one Selina! Saberton was not a variation that had occurred to me!
Per Cambs baptism index Thomas Saberton baptised at Ely in 1821 son of Thomas & Mary
Burial of Thomas Saberton age 29 in Witcham on 16 Aug 1828 (per NBI)
Thomas Saberton and Mary didn't marry in Hunts (Hunts Marriage Index)
There are trees on Ancestry which show Mary as being Mary Youngs, married at Ely on 10 Mar 1821, which would tie in with Thomas Saberton's birthplace in 1851. But there are others which show her as Mary Lakin. The Ely alleged marriage seems to be favourite; at least it gives an exact date, but it doesn't show which parish in Ely it took place.
David
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Hi David,
It was Ely St. Mary. Same as the Thomas baptism.
I looked at that but it throws up another puzzle really.
Says that Mary Youngs was commonly called BRUFF and marks Bruff.
Witnesses were Mansfield Saberton and John Ellis.
Later in the year Mansfield Saberton marries a Sarah Bruff, witnesses John Ellis and John Ellis jun
Selina
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Buying the birth certificate of Rose Anna Ward would be interesting but may give a different result to that expected.
On 25 June 1821 a Jane Ward was baptised at Ely Holy Trinity daughter of Thomas and Ann Ward, otp lab,
Birth registered March quarter of Rose Anna Ward, Ely district.
Baptism at Ely St. Mary 11 January 1842 Rose Anna Ward the daughter of Jane Ward sp of Union House.
Census gives Rose's place of birth as Ely.
I haven't looked to see what happened to Jane.
Selina
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I am wondering if the confusion with the mother's names on the baptisms, i.e. Mary and Ann can be explained by the burial in 1831 at Witchford of a Mary Ann Ward otp aged 36?
Worth considering.
Selina
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Oy! You guys are amazing, first off - THANK YOU! I don't know WHAT to think though! I did "meet" someone on Ancestry.com who was descended from a Rose Anna Ward born in Ely in a workhouse - that is definitely NOT my Ward family (according to her and I think she was correct). I'm most concerned with William's parentage, obviously, since he is my direct line. Daniel Ward witnessed William Ward & Jane Golden's marriage (just got the certificate in the mail) in Witchford in October 1851 and he also is listed as the witness for their daughter, Elizabeth Ann Ward's marriage to John Thomas Washington. Not that that helps in determining their mother at all. :-(
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P.S. Pardon my ignorance, but what does "otp" mean? (I'm still pretty green with all of this!)
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Selina - I'm thinking about that Mary Ann Ward buried in Witchford in 1831. I've run into that before, where a Mary Ann has gone by both names as well as one or the other. Perhaps Edith, Thomas and William (b. 1818, 1826 & 1830 respectively) are the children of that Mary Ann Ward and Daniel and Rose Ann (b. 1835 & 1842 respectively) are the children of the second wife, Mary?
Thomas Ward's brother was John Ward. They were both born in Fenstanton and I found burial listings in Witchford for a Daniel Ward (b. 1757) and a Rose Ward (b. abt 1772) on David's link today... I think that might be their parents, Daniel & Rosamond Ward, originally from Fenstanton? Daniel Ward (the elder) was the only Daniel Ward on the parish list a gentleman sent me from Fenstanton. He was baptised in 1760, do you think he might have been born in 1757 but not baptised until 1760? Did that happen, do you know? His parents were listed as John & Edy Ward. He also sent me the marriage entries - John Ward and Ede Muns. When researching, I found an EDITH Muns. I'm wondering if Ede/Edy is short for Edith? It seems to me it would make sense that there are later generations with the same names - John, Thomas, Daniel, Edith, and Rose.... but then, everyone seems to be names Thomas, John, William, or George. LOL.
My head is spinning!
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Do think about the MARY/ANN variants - I was thrown by my gg granny using either/both at various times throughout her life.
Good luck - from a Lans. Ward lass.
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otp = of this parish. ie they were resident in the parish at the time of the marriage, not necessarily that they were born in the parish.
I'm pretty sure that William comes from the first marriage, which is proving to be strangely elusive. It was probably in 1817/18, and it wasn't in Hunts, and as Thomas was probably living in Witchford at that time it's likely the marriage was in Cambs.
I covered some of the ground regarding Daniel on your thread at http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/localities.britisles.england.hun.general/1595/mb.ashx including the possible burials of Daniel and Rose, and other possible children born in both Fenstanton and Witcham.
I'm sure Edy is a shortening of Edith. My great aunt was always known as Edy and it was only when I started doing my family history that I found her name was Edith
Yes, it wasn't uncommon for children to be baptised late, but you need to look at the pattern of baptisms in the family - were the other children baptised at the normal time, is there a gap into which Daniel could have fitted, when did John and Edith marry? But you're getting ahead of yourself; finish one generation before moving back to the previous generation.
Burial ages were often inaccurate, particularly the older the person was. Daniel who was buried in Witchford aged 70 may have been a year or three younger - his wife was already dead and the informant may not have known his exact age.
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Just to confuse things further-lots of Mary Anns were nicknamed Polly for some reason.
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I see that you were given details of Thomas Saberton in your thread of last summer on this board at http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,476923.msg3367817.html#msg3367817 so I'm surprised you are still referring to him as Isberton. Perhaps you need to step back, and reread all the information you've been given on this board and the other which I referred to in my previous post today. It might help to clear your confusion which you mentioned in reply #3
And move backwards a generation at a time. Trying to research John and Edy before you've established who and where Daniel married could result in a lot of wasted effort.
David
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To be honest, David, I can't even locate my old post on this board. I've looked for it before because it wouldn't allow me to copy and paste any of it last time so I have my hand written notes, I confess I am disorganized. (Quite nerve-wracking for one who organizes for a living!). I find this board quite difficult to navigate, but that could also be my lack of experience with any kind of board posting/blog type of stuff.
Please accept my apology, I am not meaning to irritate, merely trying to learn these things. I have only a couple months' "experience" in trying to understand records and do not know everything about the UK system. I still never found the records you mentioned previously through my worldwide membership on Ancestry.com... frustrating!! I am enrolled in a class starting in May, hoping that will help.
Again, my apologies. I certainly do not wish, nor was it my intention, to waste your time.
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I'm also looking for the same People, especially Ann Ward who doesn't seem to have a maiden name. Thank you
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Thomas Ward's first marriage was to a woman called Ann. He has two children named Jane and William Ward. I'm a descendant of Jane, her daughter was named Rose Anna Ward who I believe was illegitimate. I have her birth certificate. It looks like we might be looking for more information on Ann who was Thomas' first wife.
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Rose Anna Ward was the the daughter of Jane Ward. According to her birth certificate, there was no father. Jane's father was Thomas Ward and her mother was a woman named Ann. I'm also looking for the same people. Thomas married a second time after Ann passed away.