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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: troymaclure on Saturday 05 February 11 04:24 GMT (UK)
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born in germany in 1850 moved to dublin married rosanna moretan ran a lodging house in chancery lane any one got any info on either him or rosanna
he married 3 times in all reverted back to his german name in the 1911 census died in 1934
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There is a death in Family Search for A George Schlicher in 1934 born 1849
Dublin South Jan -March 1934, 85 years of age, this is possibly him.
You will have to request the death cert.
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Thats Him alright hadnt he lived quite a long time for people from that era and in particular around the inner city
is there any slickers out there with connections to south inner city (slicker,schlicher,schlichor,schleicher) any of these spellings will more than likely match
George had a son frederick who also reverted back to the german spelling he lived in cork street around the 1939 elections he also had son Daniel who may have died in celbridge and louis and a george junior although there a probably lots of louis and georges by now
im trying to find out when george arrived in ireland from germany he may have handed down some stories ???
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Shane,
if your out there a quick question for you, if a person is buried in grange gorman do they have to be in the military or married to somebody in the miltary
troy
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I am not familiar with the cemetery history, but according to the details on Internment.Net (http://www.interment.net/data/ireland/dublin/grangegorman/index.htm) the cemetery was originally for 'British Forces, wives and families. After 1923 only servicemen and their next of kin could be buried there.'
Shane
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Forgive me shane for being lazy and thanks again you always have the answers
is there any site that you know of where i could check if somebody was in the services
ie for example george slickers grandson george who was married to catherine.
co incidentally there is a grave listed to both in grangegorman as it is such an uncommon surname what are the chances of that
troy
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Forgive me shane for being lazy and thanks again you always have the answers
is there any site that you know of where i could check if somebody was in the services
ie for example george slickers grandson george who was married to catherine.
co incidentally there is a grave listed to both in grangegorman as it is such an uncommon surname what are the chances of that
troy
that would depend very much on the dates involved - for pre-Independence Army records you can try websites like Find My Past. I dont think any Free State/Irish army details will be online anywhere.
given the rarity of the surname in Dublin I'd say it's worth following those details up..
Shane
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Sorry shane misled you there that should have read georges son Frederick and it was him he was in the royal Irish fusileers joined on 27 oct 1910 discharged with a pension in 1913
his father and other brothers are mentioned on his attestation have downloaded all 4 pages
thanks for the heads up it was on that site find my past
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does anyone know any history for Louis Slicker I think he was a Handball champion and lived in Dublin early 1900's and was the son of George Slicker (Schlicher)
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Hi Troy thank you for your message I have found Louis he is the Son on George senior who was born in Germany 1834 and came to Dublin in 1849, he lived in Chancery Lane, Wood Quay at number 13 and was a guesthouse proprieter and Barrel Organ owner. It was his Son Louis that is my great grandfather. this would make us cousins I think. please contact me if you have any info on Louis Life, thanks for your help all the best Edd
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Hi Troy thank you for your message I have found Louis he is the Son on George senior who was born in Germany 1834 and came to Dublin in 1849, he lived in Chancery Lane, Wood Quay at number 13 and was a guesthouse proprieter and Barrel Organ owner. It was his Son Louis that is my great grandfather. this would make us cousins I think. please contact me if you have any info on Louis Life, thanks for your help all the best Edd
Hi Edd L, my Great grandfather Peter Kelly shows up on both the 1901 and 1911 census as living at the Lodge House that your great great grandfather owned. I have a birth Cert of my grandfathers which shows his father (peter kelly)'s occupation as Organ Grinder! At first I thought this was a mistake, then I stumbled upon him in the census. He must have been thought by George or louis at that house. Do you have any more info of the lodge house or the area, any photos?
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hi Kelly im sorry i do not have any photos at the moment if i do get any i will post them to you. Edd
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Kellydynasty,
are you sure that its the same peter kelly, in the 1901 census hes 16 the peter kelly in 1911 is 24
this was my great great grand fathers house I dont have any photos either ,still trying to track some down
I know Georges sons thought music at some stage in waterford and one of them stayed in lodgings in dunlaoghrie (kingstown) as an organ grinder by the next census they were all coal delivery men obviously more money at that, organ grinding died with the on set of the wireless, modern technology eh.
troy
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George and Rosanna Schlicher were both witnesses to the marriage of Francis Gaspurd (Gasparro) and Kate Doyle of 14 Chancery Lane in 1876
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Dathai
Fyi, george sliocher was a musician too chancery street was home to alot of immigrants ( george was german)
They had an annual festival on the street for some time I believe where all the accordian players used to congrgate and play george later owned one of the houses along chancery street which he ran as a guest house alot of musicians stayed there check it out in 1911 census
Doug Royal
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Yes Francis and Joseph Pacelli were musician's before they appeared on the 1901/1911 census as confectioners and the 3 Gasparro brothers Francis,Nicholas and Anthony the same.
Thank's
Dathai
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Dathai
Would pacelli have been anglicised to patchell?
By any chance
Doug
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Hi Doug
i dont think any names for the Pacelli's were anglisised,Francis had two sons all male's from these lines still use the proper spelling.
You will see the odd Picilli and other variations but this would be down to mid wives who registered the children as they would have understandably have had a strong Italian accent and very little English as they came to Dublin between 1880 and 1890 possibly via Scotland where their siblings lived in the 1890s
Joseph Pacelli had a tough oul time married in 1894 wife died by 1898 and a daughter Philomena 1899 he had 3 daughters 2 here in Dublin and one possibly born Scotland as she is registered there.
His daughter Philomena did not appear on the 1901 census and there does not appear to be a death recorded for her however after much fiddling with the Glasnevin index and going through the alphabet i found her buried there aged 2 in 1899 as Flumina Pacelli so you can imagine a grieving Italian trying to get the name Philomena across to an Irish undertaker,other than this i dont appear to be missing anybody through change of name.
Dathai
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Dathai
The reason I mention this is because of george schlicher all of his decendants are now anglicised as slicker in inner city dublin its very easy to happen it just takes one person thru non eduacation or non understanding of the lingo and they were numourous dont count it out also most names were written in latin in the cathoilc church which is an added conundrum
I have many spellings to my surname depending on the year or century, part of the country its incredible
Royal royle ryall ryle rile royale all relevant and worth researching
Best of luck keep us posted
Doug
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I am doing research on the burial places of men and women who died as a result of WW1 service but whose graves have not been officially recorded.
DANIEL SLICKER died on 8 June 1918, aged 41. He had served with the Royal Irish Fusiliers from July 1915 until medically discharged. He was head of one of 3 Slicker families at Chancery Lane in Dublin (1911 Census), the only families of that name in Ireland. The other two families were headed by George and Louis - all in the coal trade and probably all brothers.
Daniel's name is not recorded on any memorial ( as far as I know) probably because he was discharged before the War ended.
Does anyone out there know where Daniel Slicker is buried? Any clue would be gratefully received.
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Trevalyn
Not too sure about the info you have yes they were all brothers and the father also George reverted back to his original German spelling of his name Schliocher for 1911 census he was also in chancery lane his daughter their sister Mary Ellen married William Royal which is my surname the royal also lived in chancery lane and hauled coal
George snr was my great great grandfather
Frederick (another brother)was definitely in the British army and was discharged I have a copy of both his attestation and discharge papers he's buried in Cabra where a lot of exservicemen from the British army were buried Daniel was a music teacher at some point and died pretty young he lived in Celridge I don't think he was in the army he may heve been if he was he would possibly be in an exservicemans grave yard maybe near the barracks he was based in which could have been the curragh there was talk of louis been all ireland handball champion but this is unconfirmed i have tried the gaa website but no luck
George senior was a very interesting character married 3 times and lived until he was 85 I think
What is your connection
Doug
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Glasnevin
Search Glasnevin Trust and his name comes up 1918 aged 41
http://www.glasnevintrust.ie/genealogy/
death cert say George took care of his burial
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1918/05187/4432609.pdf
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Daniel is buried in Glasnevin
http://www.glasnevintrust.ie/genealogy/results/
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https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/75453314/slicker,-daniel/
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FYI
http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/dublin/photos/tombstones/grangegorman/dublin-grangegorman-mil-cem-3/target181.html
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Wow ,thank you all for such swift replays and info
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Thats Him alright hadnt he lived quite a long time for people from that era and in particular around the inner city
is there any slickers out there with connections to south inner city (slicker,schlicher,schlichor,schleicher) any of these spellings will more than likely match
George had a son frederick who also reverted back to the german spelling he lived in cork street around the 1939 elections he also had son Daniel who may have died in celbridge and louis and a george junior although there a probably lots of louis and georges by now
im trying to find out when george arrived in ireland from germany he may have handed down some stories ???
According to this record he arrived in 1871 from Bavaria: https://www.familyhistory.ie/docs/aliens/Aliens.pdf
He was my great great grandfather.
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There is a reference to a George Sicker in the Irish Times dated 12th June 1884 at Page 3 in the section of The Lord Mayor's Court, if that is of any assistance . The address was given merely as Chancery Lane.
Felixquaxer
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Thanks for that. I checked the Irish Times archive but you have to pay to access.
Would you have an image of the article?
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Kslicker
I regret not. The only image I have is on microfilm and of course I have no viewer. Some libraries are open and they have in stock past issues (especially in Ireland)
Felixquaxer
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I found the piece and its not fully legible! Could you transcribe the microfilm version by any chance?
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I found the piece and its not fully legible! Could you transcribe the microfilm version by any chance?
There is a much clearer version in the Weekly Irish Times of 14 June 1884:
THE LIFE OF AN ORGAN GRINDER
At the Lord Mayor's Court, this week, Mary Hickey, a good-looking girl, summoned George Sleker, a German, residing in Chancery lane, for 15s alleged to be due for work and labour done. The complainant, who had been a tailoress out of work, said she had agreed to accompany the defendant, his wife, and family - five children - through the country. Sleker was a "musician," and witness's business was to grind an organ, and for this she was to receive 5s a week, with her board and lodging. They were away about a fortnight, walking 20 and 23 miles a day generally. On returning to Dublin she remained with the family, making and selling artificial flowers for them, at a salary of 2s 6d a week. Finally, defendant's wife and witness quarrelled, and she had to leave, 15s owing to her at the time. Evidence was given for the defence to the effect that all wages due had been paid. The Lord Mayor dismissed the summons.
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Gaffy
Many thanks. You did what I could not do as I have no microfilm viewer and with Covid 19 restrictions etc.
Felixquaxer
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No problem, a 20+ mile trudge each day, carrying the required paraphernalia, must have been exhausting. :o
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Hi Everyone,
I’m looking for information about George Schlicher. Have come across a discussion on this site and got some useful information. Would like some further help and an update on the progress people have made.
Thanks
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Hi and welcome, is this the topic ?
Regards
Sarah
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It is yes. Thank you.
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I have just merged your reply to the topic so that the person will be notified of your reply ;)
Regards
Sarah
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There is a death in Family Search for A George Schlicher in 1934 born 1849
Dublin South Jan -March 1934, 85 years of age, this is possibly him.
Died 21st February 1934 at 21 Chancery Lane. His grandson George Royal was the informant.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1934/04848/4308397.pdf
His daughter Mary Ellen Slicker (aged 15) married William Royal (aged 16) on 4th April 1910 at St Nicholas RC Church.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1910/09983/5630416.pdf
George Royal (grandson) born 1910.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1910/01572/1633966.pdf
1911 census for Royal.
House 26.3 in Chancery Lane (Wood Quay, Dublin).
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Wood_Quay/Chancery_Lane/63487/
KG
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Hi Troy (et al)
Reading this thread with great interest as my own family has strong links to Chancery Lane and would certainly been acquainted with the Schlickers and others mentioned. More on that later but first I think the photo and text in the link below will be of interest. Seems like the German Jewish immigrant referred to his George Schlicker. If so that would make his wife Rosanna an Italian. The brothers referred to is presumably a misspelling of the Gasparo brothers:
https://www.broadsheet.ie/2020/10/27/old-dublin-little-italy/
if it is indeed the case then that would probably make those in the picture would be the residents of 13 Chancery Lane...
My own families connection is to various other addresses in Chancery Lane, including 14, where the Gasparo brothers lived.
14 Chancery Lane was between about 1876 and 1884 the address of Louis Rolleri aka Louis O’Leary. Like George Schlicker, the Gasparos and many others in Chancery Lane he was a musician. His first wife was Margaret Rigoli (aka Regan) who was my great great great aunt. She was born in Dublin to Giovanni Rigoli, a figure maker who came to Ireland c 1835. He also lived in Chancery Lane (no 24) c 1851. Louis Rolleri later moved to 25 Chancery Lane with his second wife and family.
One of my great great great grandfathers Jacapo Basquale Cheverini (which would have originally I think have been Chiavarini and later morphed into Chavrine) lived at 17 Chancery Lane in 1864. He was an organ grinder and would certainly have know. George Schlicker. Pretty sure 17
was also a boarding house used by itinerant Italian workers as Jacapo moved between Belfast and Dublin.
By the way there is a record of death for a Rosanna Slicker aged abt 45 in 1899, Dublin South. That could be George’s wife. I’ll bet if you look hard enough you’ll find Rosanna was from an Italian family. Martini maybe? There were plenty of Martinis in Little Italy. Just a thought...
Cheers
Dan
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George and Rosanna Schlicher were both witnesses to the marriage of Francis Gaspurd (Gasparro) and Kate Doyle of 14 Chancery Lane in 1876
They were
also sponsors of the baptism of Christoper Donahue in 1878 - whose family also resides at 14
Chancery Lane/
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/8cf2d10345263?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fnamefm%3D%26namel%3Dschlicker%2B%26location%3D%26yyfrom%3D%26yyto%3D%26submit%3DSearch
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Dathai
Fyi, george sliocher was a musician too chancery street was home to alot of immigrants ( george was german)
They had an annual festival on the street for some time I believe where all the accordian players used to congrgate and play george later owned one of the houses along chancery street which he ran as a guest house alot of musicians stayed there check it out in 1911 census
Doug Royal
I think the annual festival you refer to was the traditional new year celebration when all the organ grinders and other musicians would stand outside their houses and entertain the crowds. There is a lovely plaque commemorating this event at the junction of Bride St and Chancery Lane. you’ll find pictures of it online. Believe it was designed by a Dublin artist called Chris Reid.
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Hi again
A search of the baptisms for Slicker family members is instructive in two counts:
1) it shows that in the 1870s and 1880s before settling at 13 Chancery Lane the Schlickers moved a lot and were at different addresses in Little Italy: 14 Chancery Lane; 17 Chancery Lane; Golden Lane; Kennedy Lane.
2) it perhaps gives a clue as to Rosanna’s original maiden name. He appears variously as Moran, Moreton and Morton. My best guess is that she might have been a Mortoni. Not a common name but one found that seems almost exclusively associated with Lombardy:
https://www.italianames.com/italian-last-names-maps/MORTONI
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At this Slicker baptism the sponsors were Joseph and Catherine Morton - most likely Rosannas parents, though Joseph could be a sibling, as could Catherine.
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/31bd420343497?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fnamefm%3D%26namel%3Dslicker%26location%3D%26yyfrom%3D%26yyto%3D%26submit%3DSearch
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I think this is possibly George
and Rosannas marriage:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/1566917:2572?tid=&pid=&queryId=6944ecb46443424c335c3ed398e0154d&_phsrc=wZK2&_phstart=successSource
Rosanna Morton and George Schleche [sic] 1871 Dublin South. Time frame and location fit.
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Mistranscribed names can throw a spanner in the works. Here is the marriage record Defonitely your George Schlicker. He is at 14 Chancery Lane.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1871/11362/8171370.pdf
His father was Jacob, also a musician. He is not shown as deceased at time of marriage. Maybe he also came to Ireland?
Rosanna’s father was Daniel, a witness to the marriage. That probably makes Joseph her brother. Catherine either her mother, sister or sister in law?
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....
and it looks like Rosanna’s father was
a cordwainer which according to the dictionary of old occupations was a skilled leather worker:
Cordwainer: made a variety of goods from fine soft leather which originated from the Spanish city Cordoba. The term Cordwainer dates back to the 12th century. Down through the centuries the occupation evolved into being known as a maker of luxury boots and shoes.
.. or just a shoemaker working with leather?
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Looks like he got himself into a bit of bother for ‘obstructing the public thoroughfare’ in Waterford. I imagine he might have been on the road and selling his shoes in the street... year of birth and profession match:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/3072831:61943
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Marriages for Mortons in Dublin reveal that Rosanna had several siblings, Joseph, Catherine and Marianna.
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/search.jsp?namefm=daniel&namel=morton+&location=&yyfrom=&yyto=&submit=Search
At least two of the marriages look to me like they are into other Italian families (Ventreen probably Ventrini, Dargan could conceivably be Dargenio).
Note George Schlicker is a witness for one of the marriages .
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FWIW I think Ventreen is probably Venturini. There was a Mary Venturini listed as a confectioner in the 1850 Dublin directory.
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I’ve seen it cited that there were around 400 Italians in Dublin’s Little Italy at its peak. My feeling is there were far more as so many were quick to anglicise their names. There are probably many more people in Ireland with Italian roots than realise it.
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They were
also sponsors of the baptism of Christoper Donahue in 1878 - whose family also resides at 14
Chancery Lane/
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/8cf2d10345263?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fnamefm%3D%26namel%3Dschlicker%2B%26location%3D%26yyfrom%3D%26yyto%3D%26submit%3DSearch
danbonino, you're reasonably new to RootsChat but just a gentle reminder to use RootsChat's URL shrinker when posting a long link.
https://www.rootschat.com/links/
It can be found at bottom of page in the dark brown section.
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Yes Rosanna and George had several children. His daughter Mary Ellen Slicker married William Royal and they are/were my grandparents. George my great grandfather.
I’ve seen mention of Jacob his father and Isaac Jacob referred to and I know George came from Frankelbach in Bavaria. This was prior to a unified Germany existing. Sadly I can’t find him before he came to Ireland. Have to keep researching!
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His daughter Mary Ellen Slicker married William Royal and they are/were my grandparents.
.................
So after George born in 1910-
Lydia Royal born 1912
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1912/01483/1603698.pdf
James Royal born 1914 (but registered 1917)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1917/01305/1539764.pdf
William Patrick Royal born 1916
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1916/01337/1551886.pdf
Mary Ellen Royal born 1918
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1918/01273/1527907.pdf
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george may have had family roots in ireland long before he arrived. here a list of arrivals from the Palatinate in England in 1709:
https://www.genesearch.com/genealogy-records/1709palatines/june.html
Includes a George Schleicher.
Several hundred families from the Palatinate were resettled in Wexford and Limerick.
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Both George and his father Jakob were musicians went they? And they came from Palatinate. This would fit with the info in this link:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Palatine_travelling_music_tradition
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Very useful info ty. What I’ve seen from the Alien registration form 1914-1922 (posted earlier in this thread) which was completed by Dublin Metropolitan Police is that George Schlicher arrived in 1871. Birthplace Frankelbach, Bavaria. His date of birth was recorded as 6 June 1849. So He was indeed from Bayern, Pfalz now part of Rhineland Pfalz or the Rhineland Palatinate. He also registered 3 sons born in 1876, 1879 and 1883. Place of birth for all 3 is specified as Dublin.
So that list of arrivals seems too early. Is the list of arrivals from 1709 or just in 1709? And do you know of further sources detailing arrivals? I’ve been searching but had no luck so far. I’ve also been checking births in German records and found a couple of possibles in Bavaria but not in Frankelbach.
Of course any part of these records is subject to misspelling and dependent on correct facts being given and recorded etc which further complicates matters.
The list of arrivals
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Very useful info ty. What I’ve seen from the Alien registration form 1914-1922 (posted earlier in this thread) which was completed by Dublin Metropolitan Police is that George Schlicher arrived in 1871. Birthplace Frankelbach, Bavaria. His date of birth was recorded as 6 June 1849. So He was indeed from Bayern, Pfalz now part of Rhineland Pfalz or the Rhineland Palatinate. He also registered 3 sons born in 1876, 1879 and 1883. Place of birth for all 3 is specified as Dublin.
So that list of arrivals seems too early. Is the list of arrivals from 1709 or just in 1709? And do you know of further sources detailing arrivals? I’ve been searching but had no luck so far. I’ve also been checking births in German records and found a couple of possibles in Bavaria but not in Frankelbach.
Of course any part of these records is subject to misspelling and dependent on correct facts being given and recorded etc which further complicates matters.
The list of arrivals
I think these articles might help explain how and why he ended up in Dublin;
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Palatine_travelling_music_tradition
http://www.essweiler.de/cont3/geschichte/76-geschichte/wandermusikanten/itinerant-musicians-other-languages/178-the-itinerant-musicians
More the location of Frankelbach cf the other villages. He and his father were both musicians. His Dublin neighbour Henry Sheer was from Rothselberg.
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Very useful info ty. What I’ve seen from the Alien registration form 1914-1922 (posted earlier in this thread) which was completed by Dublin Metropolitan Police is that George Schlicher arrived in 1871. Birthplace Frankelbach, Bavaria. His date of birth was recorded as 6 June 1849. So He was indeed from Bayern, Pfalz now part of Rhineland Pfalz or the Rhineland Palatinate. He also registered 3 sons born in 1876, 1879 and 1883. Place of birth for all 3 is specified as Dublin.
So that list of arrivals seems too early. Is the list of arrivals from 1709 or just in 1709? And do you know of further sources detailing arrivals? I’ve been searching but had no luck so far. I’ve also been checking births in German records and found a couple of possibles in Bavaria but not in Frankelbach.
Of course any part of these records is subject to misspelling and dependent on correct facts being given and recorded etc which further complicates matters.
The list of arrivals
I don’t have any further info on the 1709 arrivals and clearly way too early for George BUT it may give context for why he chose Ireland if there were family roots there.
Btw it seems he was thrice married. Months after Rosanna died he married Kate O’Brien in Nenagh. but if you look on the 1911 census he is married to an Elizabeth an says they have been married for three years...
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... or maybe not:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000180854/
The original entry has been amended and Elizabeth crossed out. My guess is he was living with her as a common law wife. A bit of a mystery. Equally unclear is what happened to Kate.
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Very useful info ty. What I’ve seen from the Alien registration form 1914-1922 (posted earlier in this thread) which was completed by Dublin Metropolitan Police is that George Schlicher arrived in 1871. Birthplace Frankelbach, Bavaria. His date of birth was recorded as 6 June 1849. So He was indeed from Bayern, Pfalz now part of Rhineland Pfalz or the Rhineland Palatinate. He also registered 3 sons born in 1876, 1879 and 1883. Place of birth for all 3 is specified as Dublin.
So that list of arrivals seems too early. Is the list of arrivals from 1709 or just in 1709? And do you know of further sources detailing arrivals? I’ve been searching but had no luck so far. I’ve also been checking births in German records and found a couple of possibles in Bavaria but not in Frankelbach.
Of course any part of these records is subject to misspelling and dependent on correct facts being given and recorded etc which further complicates matters.
The list of arrivals
According to the 1914 alien register Henry Sheer was from Frankelbach but no mention of George being from there. It does though have a note added later re him being widowed and wife being Elizabeth died 1925....