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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (North Riding) => Topic started by: carna on Saturday 12 February 11 08:25 GMT (UK)
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I am looking for any information relating to Barker Joseph BENSON, apparently born in Whitby around 1815.
Possible parents are Thomas BENSON and Sarah BAKER, both also born in Whitby around 1779.
I believe Barker Joseph came to Australia around 1841.
Any help greatly appreciated,
Thanks
Carna
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Is it Whitby for definite?
Familysearch.org has a Barker Joseph Benson baptised 23 Dec 1815 at Chigwell in Essex with parents shown as There is also a daughter Ann Barker Benson baptised 20 Jul 1813 at Chigwell in Essex.
In both cases parents shown as Thomas and Sarah Benson.
All the dates and names match up but Whitby in North Yorkshire is around 250 miles from Chingford in Essex........
just a coincidence and not them?
I can't find any Bensons in Whitby at that time.
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Thanks for that 'The Mc'.
Family members still living, know nothing of their great-grandfather Barker Joseph, so the only info I have so far has come from looking up other family trees on internet.
I know these are not always based on fact, so I start my search for proof.
Barker Joseph BENSON was married to Hannah Emily VANDERVORD in New Zealand,18/6/1841, after they both travelled on the ship "Katherine Stewart Forbes" from Gravesend 5/2/1841.
Other family trees show Hannah as born in 1824 in Essex, England, so it makes sense he could have been born in same area..
The same family tree shows Ann Barker BENSON as born in Whitby, 13th July,1813. It also shows Thomas BENSON born 1812 Whitby, & Dorothy Ann BENSON born 1814 Whitby.
It also shows 3 other children born in London, William John Chapman BENSON 1817, Robson BENSON 1820, and Willis Allatson BENSON 1822.
I assume that Barker Joseph BENSON would not be a common name, so I would imagine the Essex BENSONS to be the ones I am looking for.
Thanks again for your trouble,
Carna
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Carna,
The will of Thomas Benson Esq of Upper Woburn Place, Middlesex, dated 20 Oct 1838. Probate 9 Aug 1849.
Its hard to read, but mentions his wife Sarah, his four youngest sons William John Chapman Benson, Barker Joseph Benson, Willis Allatson Benson, and Robson Benson, and his daughters Dorothy Ann Benson and Sarah Benson.
Also the will of Sarah Benson of Brixton, Surrey, dated 29 Dec 1850. Probate 3 June 1851.
Mentions her late father, Joseph Barker, and her sons Barker Joseph Benson, Thomas Benson, Willis Allatson Benson and Robson Benson, and her daughters Dorothy and Sarah, and her late son William John Benson.
There is this family in 1851 census :
2 Belmont House, Acre Lane, Brixton.
Sarah Benson, Head, W, 72, Annuitant, b. Whitby, Yorks,
Thomas Benson, son, U, 39, Shipbuilder, b. Whitby, Yorks,
Sarah Benson, dau, U, 32, Annuitant, b. Middlesex, Mile End,
Robert Benson, son, M, 29, Lieut. East India Co., b. Middlesex Mile End,
plus Roberts (might be Robson?) wife and children, and some servants.
HO107/1575/87/32
A marriage reported in the York Herald, 22 September 1810.
"Last week at Whitby, T. Benson Esq. to Miss Sarah Barker, daughter of the late Joseph Barker Esq. of that place."
pm me your email address and I'll send you copies of the wills.
Alan.
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The family in 1841 census :
Upper Woburn Place, St. Pancras, Middlesex,
Thomas Benson, 25, Ind, Y,
Willm John Benson, 20, Ind, Y,
Willis Benson, 20, Y, Ind, Y,
Dorothy Benson, 20, Ind, Y,
Sarah Benson, 20, Ind, Y,
Sarah Benson, 50, Ind, Y,
HO107/686/10/33/60
Alan.
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Hi Alan,
Thanks heaps. I am so excited.
It starts to paint a picture of family before me.
My living grandfather (90yrs) was Barker Joseph's great-grandson.
It is exciting to be able to tell him about family he never knew.
Thanks for the info on the will. I would love a copy. Will pm you.
Much appreciated,
Carna
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There is a short account of "a young man of fashionable exterior" - Barker Joseph Benson of Upper Woburn Place, St Pancras - stealing a basket of apples from Covent Garden Market from a newspaper dated 24 Dec 1837. If you PM me with your email address then I can send you a copy.
Purp72
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Hi Carna!
Barker Joseph Benson was my great great grandfather. I have lots of information about him. I don't really know where to start! He and Hannah had the following children: Thomas Barker Chapman Benson b. 1844 at Carcoar; William Robson Benson b. 1845, Gosford; Edward Vandervord Benson b. 1847 at Gosford; John Havindon Benson b. 1849 at Gosford; Joseph James Benson b. 1852 at Gosford; Emily Lancaster Benson b 1854 at Gosford; Willis Allatson Benson b. 1860 at Gosford. Which of his children are you descended from? William Robson Benson was my great grandfather.
Barker's father was Thomas Benson b. 23.1.1779, d 1849. His father was also Thomas Benson b 18.9.1738, d 1782. His father was William Benson b. 1708 at Lythe, d. 31.5.1747 (drowned at sea). His father was William Benson b 11.5.1657. His father is thought to have been William Benson b 1630. Have lots of information also about the Vandervords. I also have pictures (photos taken of portraits) of Barker and Hannah that I could send you. Let me know what else you would like to know.
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Wow, what a great result for this posting!
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Hi blynch2,
I can't believe it!
Willis Allatson BENSON (b.1860) was my great great grandfather.
We are related to him through his son Jack.
I would love to share pictures, I have one of Willis and of his wife if they are of interest to you. I also have a post on the Australian board, where someone has also mentioned a gaol photograph of Willis.
Years ago, someone gave our family a hand written sheet with a snippet of BENSON family on it. It was taken from research done by Kim Lynch, at the Sydney Registrar General Office.
Is she possibly related?
This is the only info I really had until a week ago when I joined RootsChat.
I haven't really known where to look for info, and everyone is so kind for looking it up and then sharing it.
I have found out heaps in just a week.
I just have to connect the dots and then I would love more info.
Sooooooooo excited,
Thanks heaps,
Carna
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Hi purp72,
Thanks heaps for that info.
I love how they described people back then.
I will pm you as I would love a copy so I can show it to his still living great grandson.
Can't wait to show him that his 'naughty streak' ran in the family.
Thanks again,
Carna
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After nine months of searching we seem to have found relatives. We are of the direct line from Barker through to his son William's son Eric, then to Eric's son William and then Richard, to Mark to Liam. Most of the information is correct that people have posted here and we have verification of it from British newspapers, archives etc. We also went to Whitby Museum and Philosophical society in 2010 and found yes william 1657 with brother Thomas (no date) and parent Jane Benson(2nd marriage Cowltas). We would love copies of any photos of the younger generations, especially Barker. Are you all familiar with the rest of the family -it's massive especially the intertwining of relationships with the chapmans, walkers etc and did you know they probably all knew Cook personally? do you know that Thomas and Ann, then Thomas and Sarah got married at St Mary's whitby? Ohh so excited won't be able to sleep now we know there are others out there who are on our wavelength.
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Hi Barkrelsatthepoint,
As mentioned on previous posts, I am Barker Joseph's great-great-great granddaughter.
We are related through his son Willis Allatson.
As I am in Australia, I have also posted on the Australian board of RootsChat. Have a look there, maybe different info?
I have a photo of Willis Allatson and wife. if you want to PM me with your email address, I am happy to share some pics.
blynch2 mentions pics of Barker Joseph and Hannah, seems happy to share!
I have only really started family history end of 2010, so don't have much info to share, but happy to share what I have.
This RootsChat is absolutely brilliant. It is sooooo exciting to find family members we didn't know about.
Carna
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Hi Carna,
Great to chat, have looked up rules on PM's and we have to have 3 posts before being able to use this facility. Are you aware that Willis Allatson Senior -Barker's brother died in America either on the way or at New York. This info is available on a Google site so it may be worth you looking it up. He was quite a man. I have seen info also on his son Ernest could be spelt Earnest, he 'made' it too so to speak. In his early days Willis and William John were sailmakers - just go to London Archives of the British Newspaper and type names in. His wife was Emily Knipe and she died in Sunderland-Yorkshire not long after the children were born. When Willis died according to the article his oldest brother Thomas and William John (don't quote me see article) went over to America to sort the business out. For an interesting tie to Whitby download the Muster Rolls for 1747 - the Thomas there is Thomas 1696 - never married and Widow Benson (his sister-in-law) is your numerous times grandmother. Thomas Benson1779 was brother-in-law to Aaron Chapman MP for Whitby via his sister-in-law Elizabeth (Sarah's sister). Download Ruswarp Hall on the net and know that Willis' Dad Thomas 1738 lived there - Thomas 1779 was born there, we're in OZ too - visited it in 2010. Should keep you going for now. Cheers talk again soon.
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Hi blynch2,
Are you in OZ.? Would love to hear from you about the top of the tree. We are great grandson of William Robson via his son Eric. Do you know anymore about William 1630 or William 1657? We have a copy of William 1657's brother Thomas' will and know that their mother was Jane. Didn't know their father's name. Seems it may be William. Also they are related to Woodhouses, Cliffes (old spelling) and Chapmans via Thomas Chapman husband of Elizabeth who may have been a sister. A William Chapman also a witness to the will seems likely to be William Chapman husband of Mary Temple (2nd wife) his first wife was Ellinor. Any info you have will certainly help all the other inquirers on this forum.
Cheers barkrelsatthe point
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Carna,
Whoops too early in the morning and a cold to boot. Change Willis Allatson to William John Chapman Benson - Canada - should get you the site and it was Willis and Thomas who went to America to rectify things hence why William John Chapman Benson is deceased in the 1851 census info posted by WolfieSmith. Otherwise the info is correct. I'm presuming Willis came to OZ sometime? I haven't researched him yet because I've concentrated on Barker and his son William our direct relative.
Cheers barkrelsatthepoint
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Hi Barkrelsatthepoint,
Sounds like you've been at this for a while.
There are a few Willis Allatsons, which can make it confusing. I think Barker Joseph had a brother Willis Allatson, then he had a son Willis Allatson (b1860 Gosford) to whom we are related, then he had a son Willis Allatson (b1883 Glebe) to his 1st wife Emily Knipe (m1880 Sydney).
There is also a death notice for Willis (b1883) NSWbdm 1891 aged 8yrs 8mths.
We are related through Willis's (1860) 2nd wife Angela Rubie (m1891).
We knew he had been married to Emily Knipe but didn't know of any children.
I recently found 4 children born to Willis and Emily , through NSWbmd.
I also believe that this Emily Knipe died in NSWbmd as Emily Baddeley in 1950 (parents names seem to match.)
Willis and Angela had 5 children; Gabrielle (b1886), Jack (b1887, our relative), Dorothy (b1892), Muriel (b1897), and Reginald (b1899).
You mention a wife also Emily Knipe, who died in Yorkshire. Is this coincidence?
So excited to start looking up some of the things that you mention. Getting started straight away.
Through these kind RootsChat members, I have a 24/12/1837 newspaper account of Barker Joseph and copies of the wills of his parents Thomas and Sarah. Can pass these on when you PM me your email, if you haven't already got them.
Thanks heaps for the info,
Carna
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Hi Carna,
Will have to gather my info together. We've been concentrating on the top of the tree as we needed to fit in as much research as we could while in the UK. I've found most of my early information via the Robert Chapman website and Geoff Walker who we both are related to. Will need to check my info re 'Emily' in UK as I haven't looked at it for a while.
Think I'm in shock to find not so much new info but confirmation of my own research which is awesome. Sarah Benson(Barker) was my loose end so am grateful for info on her. I confirmed her by an online donation to the Marchioness' Travel diary. Will give you the site when I sort it out. I've looked at the Aus site comments and I don't think we need to worry about Barker's character - he was involved in two at least bankruptcies but he was a well respected doctor as can be read by the friend of his who signed his death certificate which was what got us started on the english side of things. Got info from his involvement with the Anglican church in Kincumber (East Gosford) which was moved stone by stone to its present position early 1900's again I'll have to check. William his son's involvement with the Mercantile Rowing club is interesting and being Mayor of Marrickville earned him many accolades.
All for now until I get around to it all again. Happy 'surfing'. rels at the point
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Hi again Carna,
It was bugging me about Willis Allatson senior - Barker's brother as I knew there was something unusual about him.
This is his marriage notice which appeared both in the Morning Chronicle- Thurs 27th ? 1856. and also in the Malton Messenger 1856 both British Newspapers online - costs you to download - think its 7 pound for a 100 hits. Great site as they give you a peek to see if it's relevant.
On the 21st Instant at St Mary's Church, Whitby in the County of York, Willis Allatson Benson, fourth son of Thomas Benson Esq of London to Dorothy, daughter of William Esq of Whitby.
Thomas 1779 (Sarah Barker)(our direct common ancestor) and William 1775 (Elizabeth Walker) are brothers - William's line is very interesting too. Therefore Willis married his first cousin.
The notice about William J C and Willis A is in the London Gazette 28th Feb. 1845 p.692. When I was trawling this site last year it was free, but I'm not so sure now.
There are several references in the Sydney Morning Herald that confirms your info.
Marriage info for Willis and Emily is in the 21st June 1880 edn
Willis the grandson who dies at 8yrs and 8months is in Tues 20th Oct 1891edn.
Willis' sentence to 18 months hard labour was in Tues 9th April 1889
Wytham (which is one of our Eric's (another naughty one) names) marriage to Ruby was in the Sat 22nd Nov. 1902 edn of SMH
There's a Willis death appeared in Thurs 16th Dec 1915 SMH as the son of Barker Joseph - Have other notices of the family showing that the family would put deaths from abroad in the SMH e.g Barker's sister Dorothy Richardson and his brother Thomas both died in the same year in England and it was in the SMH. So don't know where he died.
Thanks for your info again, it will save a lot of staring at the computer screen and means we can add in more relatives to what is becoming a rather large family tree.
Will give you more info on Barker later. By the way Allatson is an interesting name that would have died out if it wasn;t for the propensity of the Benson family to carry names down. Have a look for the Horngarth story on the net.
Cheers rels at the point
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Hi blynch2,
Haven't heard from you for a while. Hoping you got my PM.
I noticed that you have only made one post, and maybe you have to make 3 before you can send or receive PM's
It has been so exciting to find both you and barkrelsatthepoint.
I believe you two are more related than me, as I gather you are both descendants of William Robson Benson.
Please make contact again as I would love to share info and photos.
Carna
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Hi Carna and anyone else who's watching this site for info on Barker.
In year order,
10th Feb. 1842 Notice in SMH: East Gosford/Brisbane Water
Calling at Benson and Parkinson Wharf - The Steamer William IV
2nd June 1842 in SMH Barker 2nd meeting for insolvency
Thurs 22nd Dec 1842 Proof of claims
William Robson's birth certificate 1845 records Barker as a surgeon.
Tuesday 26th Sept 1848 Dr Barker Joseph Benson takes the chair at Brisbane Water for a meeting of the Episcopalian Church.
Thursday 20th Sept 1849 SMH
Barker is charged with embezzlement
Wed 28th Nov. Barkers countermands and John Harrison is charged with perjury which Barker wins,
Sat 22nd Feb. 1851 SMH
A Coroners Inquest - seems that Barker is the Coroner or a doctor reporting?
It's a good read.
Sat 11th May 1867 SMH he's insolvent again.
Not sure whether Wolfiesmith could pick up the tone of his father Thomas' will but the number of codicils that basically show a need to keep control over Barker's inheritance raises questions of his ability to handle money?
I've got the death notices in the paper somewhere but can't find them.
Regarding William John Chapman Benson's wife, she was Emily (nee Horn) and she died in Sunderland 1848 at the age of 30? according to the Newcastle Courant Friday October 6th.
As for blynch 2, if you are reading this. Which of William's son's or daughter are you related to us through? He and Ida or should I say Ida with regard to the children must have had a busy time. My father William's son Eric's youngest son died at 85, five years ago and was the oldest living Benson male in that direct line back. Pity he didn't know it, we've only just worked it out.
Hope this helps barkrelsatthepoint
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Hi Barkrelsatthepoint,
Thanks for all that info, it so paints a picture of Barker.
Have you seen the newspaper account of Barker from 24/12/1837 care of purp72? It is so funny and seems to confirm his personality. I can email a copy if you want to PM me your email address.
Was your William Robson also a doctor, as this post by JM on the Australian board mentions?
(Sands 1885
William R BENSON, surgeon
The Hermitage,
New South Head Road
PADDINGTON
I think "The Hermitage" was heritage listed or subject to some protection order in the past decade
Cheers, JM )
I'm so glad we are living longer now. We still have 4 living brothers and sister grandchildren of Willis (b1860), the oldest turns 90 in Aug.
Great to hear from you,
Carna
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Hi Carna,
We have the newspaper article of Barker's misdeamour - considering the times - we weren't that far from 1st fleet stuff, we couldn't help feeling he was pretty lucky.
I have heaps of info on William Robson, but the stuff about being a doctor I'm not sure about. Again I will have to check what info I've got on him. He and Ida had heaps of kids and I don't how he had time to work to be honest with you. They seem as though they were well off.
I would love someone to put info on this site about him as what I have paints a picture of his life as a very diligent citizen from a young age, more like his grandfather Thomas in London. I can tell you Thomas was President of the London version of the Mercantile Seamen's Union for displaced persons and families of seamen who left them destitute.
His own Great Uncle 1696 Thomas was a Burgess of the Seaham Hospital in Whitby which was a charity of the same kind. Benson comes from benevolent and that's exactly what they were. Not surprising Barker became a Doctor, as did his cousin Alfred Robson (williams son) - he has a mountain named after him in British Columbia.
Another tit-bit did you know Barker's brother General Robson's wife had an orchid named after her? It's called Thunia Bensonaie (spelling?). Look it up on the net it's beautiful.
Chat again soon. barkrelsatthe point
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Hi Barrelsatthepoint,
Sorry I have taken so long to reply. I am related through William and Ida's youngest son, Richard Benson (b.1900). Your father and my father( Richard William b 1922) were first cousins! My mother mentioned meeting Uncle Eric when she first got married, in the late 1950's.
This is what I have about the Bensons. Don't know if you know all this stuff already:
Barker Joseph Benson's father was Thomas Benson (b.23.1.1779, d. 1849) Married Sarah Barker (b.14.2.1779)
Thomas Benson was the son of Thomas Benson (b. 18.9.1738, d.1782) and Ann Robson.
Thomas Benson was the son of William Benson (b. 1708, d. 31.5.1747) and Dorothy Chapman.
William Benson was the son of William Benson (b. 11.5.1657)
William Benson was the son of William Benson (b.1630) Not too sure about this last one!
Sarah Barker was the daughter of Joseph Barker (1743-1809) and Ann Rain.
Joseph Barker was the son of William Barker (b.1716 d. 1780) and Sarah Martha Huggins.
Dorothy Chapman was the daughter of Ingram Chapman (b. 28.4.1682 d. 1.5.1755) and Elizabeth Linskill (b.1679 d. 1743)
Ingram Chapman was the son of William Chapman (b. 19.4.1646 d. feb 1720) and Mary Temple ( b.3.11.1659 d. 17.5.1739). Through Mary Temple we are supposedly related to Leofric, Earl of Mercia and Lady Godiva!
I hope this wasn't too confusing! I also have lots of stuff on the Rutters and Vandervords.
I have enjoyed reading your little snippets of information. I am lucky enough to have in my possession some diaries written by Barker Joseph Benson that another distant relly copied for me years ago. I would be very happy to share these with you if I can figure out how. I have just bought a new scanner and when I figure out how to use it, I will post some photos of Barker and Hannah. I also have a nice photo of William Robson Benson in his mason's regalia. He looks very distinguished.
Let me know if I can help you with anything else!
Regards,
Blynch2
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Hi Carna and Barkrelsathepoint,
Regarding William Robson Benson's occupations:
Pretty sure he wasn't a doctor. There was another William Benson from Tasmania at this time who was a doctor, so perhaps that has led to some confusion.
Our William Benson at various times listed his occupation as accountant, Lord Mayor of Marrickville, Manager of a wharf association, journalist (he knew Cook, who was the editor of the SMH) and estate agent. They seemed to have some money as the children all went to private schools - my grandfather went to Newington, but he left school as soon as he could! When he died, William's estate was only valued at 69 pounds. William was very busy as he was the secretary of the NSW rowing association for many years and was also active on other various sporting committtees e.g. rugby and cricket.
Did you know that he was a member of the first intercolonial rowing eight that competed against Victoria? He must have been a multi-talented man!
regards, Blynch2
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Hi blynch2,
Great to hear from you.
Thanks for the emails, the links were interesting reading.
I am fascinated that we are so closely related and can share info through this site.
Are you also based in Oz?
Sounds like you two were related to the model citizen, and we were related to the crook! :-[
I only knew a little except what has been posted here.
Thanks again for sharing.
Carna
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Hi Carna and Blynch 2
This is so exciting. I'm sure I was named for your Richard 1900 and I remember my Dad - William (Bill) talking about Uncle Dick. Dad (Bill) was born in 1919 not 22 and Gwenneth Marion (Gwen) his wife was too.
I need to tell you both now, we at this point have the whole tree on the computer but as it includes all of my wife's family and we're related through Gwen and her Dad, it's massive to say the least - too big to put here. We are of course lacking loads of dates, some which this site has already helped us with. Carna you are so lucky - My wife spent nine months on the net getting all this info for our family and here it is so quick. But so to our benefit too.
My wife Angela is writing up the story so that the kids and grandkids know there roots (no pun intended with the site here but so glad it exists).
We do not have any info on the Rutters (are they related to the songwriter Rutters?) or the Vandervords. Would so love all the photos etc of all the rellies. We ahve heaps of the Chapman's who we related to many times over from our visit to Whitby last year.
I have additional info too from the Herald on a Regatta where all the important people in the Colony at that stage were at and William as a young man was there too - He started his community awareness very early. Do you also have the stuff on his involvement with Marrickville Cottage hospital? He was in that area at an important time in the growth of it and the surrounding areas with regards to being on the council.
We started this research on 2 anecdotal statements of Dads - We were related to the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dad's dad was the Mayor of Marrickville (which we've proved) the other is harder unless someone knows something we don't.
Also Dad did not live with Eric much he live with his Uncle Ambrose and Aunty Sis, family circumstances related to the death of his wife (Pauline Mitchell) and his daughter Marie within eighteen months of each other plus the depression playing a huge part in the fate of 'Our Bill'.
Have to go now but will look forward to any more post and will add more ourselves when we've got time.
Cheers
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Hi, blynch and Barkrelsatthepoint,
Sorry for the long time between posts.
I can't believe we are talking about rels who would have been part of the 'colony' of NSW.
To me it was always History, but now it's kind of part of me.
I appreciate all you have shared with me and wish I had more to share.
I can help with most of the rels from Willis Allatson down to the latest generations in some cases, if you want to go that far.
Do either of you know how Barker Joseph and Hannah went from NZ to Australia?
Thanks again,
Carna
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Hi Carna,
Good to hear from you. It's Angela here. We too are blown away by all this. Re your info on Willis, the dates of births deaths of him, his wife and children and the family down to today would be awesome as we could fill it in on the tree. Did he go anywhere in the world like the rest of the boys? I know he ended up in America there for a while when WJC Benson his brother died looking after his business with his brother Thomas? Otherwise to us at this stage he is just a name.
You will be interested in the help I've received from Whitby Museum. I requested the wills of Thomas Willis and Ann Willis (Benson) (Robson). It is Thomas Willis' will that is most interesting. He is not very pleased with his own son, and leaves him an annuity, (has rings of what Thomas Benson -Barker's father did to him). But it does mention the massive estate the children received both his and Ann's - William Benson and Thomas Benson only as Dorothy had died. Ruswarp, Fylingdales and other properties in Whitby (not named) as well as the ship Dorothy plus other shipping, are all included in the estate - boy were they wealthy!!!!!! It also links us to step relatives - Sanders and Gowlands.
How awesome is that! Have to admit I'm really still very interested in the top of the tree at the moment and I'm trying to sort out why Thomas (Sarah) moved down to London. Also I would love the top of the tree before 1690. The question there is 'Do we go back to Thomas of Branga Woods 1490?"
Chat again soon.
Angela
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Hi Carna and other 'cousins',
Have been researching but haven't come across anything new other than a Gen forum post by Tiffany back in 1998 would you believe who has written out the whole tree that I've got and is also a relative via - (complicated) -
Thomas (And Sarah)' brother William's son William who goes to America which makes her a cousin a few times removed. Haven't tried to contact as its an old post and no one replied who was on our wavelength. Just put in Benson genealogy - loads of 'rels' in America so to speak!
Also I think someone mentioned here already the Trove page on Barker (I hadn't come across it until now : Here's the address:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/result?q=joseph+barker+benson
Contacted Oxford Uni re Benson papers but they weren't of much use.
Still can't get further back than William and Jane and his father about 1630.
Trying to make the links between Robert of Bingley, Christopher of Pately Bridge and a William (and/or Thomas) of ours.
We're from an industrious and illustrious line and yet no one seems to have put any info out there. Shame really.
Hope all our Benson cousins are well.
Cheers barkrelsat thepoint
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Hi Angela,
Sorry for the lack of posts.
Thanks to Blynch, I now have pics of Barker Joseph and Hannah Emily. (I think they are photos of portraits.)
They were sent in an email in a word document and so far I have been unable to save them as anything else so that I can print them off at Big W. But will keep trying and then pass them on.
Thanks for the Trove links. I have been on Trove before but there were heaps I hadn't seen. Maybe they are newly tranferred.
It is so annoying that the family doesn't seem to change the middle name when they name a child the same as a parent or other family member, e.g. Willis Allatson x3, Barker Joseph, x 2 ( ours and his grandson through James Joseph, who died at 23yrs).
My grandfather recalls his dad mentioning that his grandfather (our Barker Joseph) just put a sign up out the front saying that he was a doctor.
Has anyone found evidence of Barker becoming a doctor?
The Trove entries mention him a few times as a surgeon and he also gave reports on suspicious deaths. Surely he had qualifications !
Thanks also for the info on the wealth of the previous Bensons. Mum (Dorothy) was chuffed that there was a ship in the family, also called Dorothy.
I will get that info together on Willis down to us, so that I can pass it on to you.
Thanks again for all the info that you are sharing with us,
Much appreciated,
Karen
P.S. If you have any cracked or damaged photos that you want help fixing, the people on the 'Photograph Restoration and Dating' board on RootsChat, do an absolutely fantastic job.
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Hi Karen, (interesting that's our daughter's name)
Nice to see this post. I've been gathering all the notices I've got from the London Gazette on Thomas (and Sarah). I've written up the previous generations and come to the conclusion they had much to put up with regarding children dying at early ages, like James Joseph 23 there's Ann Dorothy 11months, Robson 6, Dorothy 19 etc.
I viewed over 90 entries for Thomas when I was trawling the London Gazette site - he's the one who must have inspired William Robson to be so socially aware! Barker's grandmother Ann didn't have it easy either with rearing her four kids and three of Thomas Willis' in her second marriage. She lived to a good age though.
It would be anecdotal to say that the Barker misdemeanour with apples seems like a Uni prank. I have a notice from the NZ Gazette where he and the ship's surgeon and another fellow thank the Ships Crew for their 'Good Work' in getting them to NZ. Maybe you get to be a doctor by association?! I have commented before that the fellow who signs off on his death notice gives the impression that he is 'letting go' of a colleague.
It's mystified me where he got his credentials except that where they lived in Bloomsbury (Camden) is right next to the one of the old British teaching hospitals. Maybe he got his credentials there? I've searched the hospital websites for some evidence also the Uni results for Barker's years when he might have been at 'Uni'. Maybe they didn't get those sort of credentials in those days? I think he might have been 'learning' the trade when they were still digging up or paying for bodies to 'learn from'! We lose track of how 'primitive' in many ways it still was back two hundred years ago.
Will be more into Barker's life when I finish the first five generations from William 1657, which is essentially the 'Whitby story'.
We can't understand why he came out and set up first in a timber business and then turned to being a doctor other than, that was what his brothers were all involved in as in WJC Benson in New Liverpool Quebec and Willis and him in London, then Thomas went to help out when WJC died.
It's a dilemma I guess that may not have an answer.
We're pretty lucky that we've got so much info really - the research we've already done on the Godwin line (that's another story!) draws a blank after 1790 which is not far back at all.
Anyhow have every intention of searching 'high and low' until I get bored with it, which isn't in the near future. So will look forward to more posts even if they're just mentoring ones.
Love this service that Root's chat has provided.
Cheers for now Angela at barkrelsatthepoint.
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Dear Angela,
I can't believe you get so much information. :D
I have posted a question on the Australian board on RootsChat asking if anyone knows where Barker got his qualifications.
Have a look as some I had read before, but others were new to me. (understandable due to me being a newby to family history). You have possibly seen it as you sound like you have been at it longer.
One post lists Barker as MD M.R.C.S.L. (Member of the Royal College of Surgeons London?)
I also find surgeons listed as 'Sawbones' interesting and possibly relating to your reference to practising on bodies?
Do you know how Barker and Hannah arrived in Australia?
Speak soon,
Karen
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Hi Karen,
We seem to have stirred up a 'hornet's nest' so to speak. I'm wondering if all this chat sometimes gets things more complicated than it really is. Do people know that Barker's first cousin Alfred Robson Benson who had Mt Benson named after him in British Columbia was also a doctor and some people seemed to feel he was a 'quack'. Think that was more about personality than qualifications though.
I need to look up Alfred Robson's dates as it is possible he and Barker are of a similar time frame - maybe there's more info on him and where he got his qualifications especially as he became more famous so to speak - didn't feel any need to go down this line before now. Alfred Robson worked with the Indians and was greatly loved. As a relative I wonder if that is how people felt about Barker and maybe qualifications weren't so important in those days as they are held now?
Cheers - too much discussion today on the other thread to absorb it all.
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Hi Angela and Karen !
I have enjoyed reading your postings, but haven't had much to contribute.
I have often wondered about Barker's qualifications as a doctor. Many years ago I contacted the Royal College of Surgeons in London about Barker and another rellie, John Yates Rutter, also a doctor. They confirmed that John Yates Rutter was registered with them, but there was no record of Barker Benson. I get the feeling that he wasn't a doctor when he travelled to New Zealand, as he was listed on the passenger list as 'Mr'. Usually if they were a doctor, they were listed as 'Dr'. He was quite well educated, so I wonder if he did just hang up a sign and declare himself to be a doctor. Maybe this was acceptable back then!
Earlier, he had worked in a law firm, but was very unhappy doing this. He then travelled to Quebec and later India (he definitely wasn't a doctor at this stage). He seemed to have the job of supervising the unloading and loading of the cargo etc. I had the feeling that this is what he was doing when he travelled to New Zealand, but am not sure.
It is quite intriguing, isn't it!
I am trying to work out how to post the photos on this site. Will work on it this weekend.
Regards,
Kim.
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Hi Kim
I guess I'm not surprised by what you've written. I presume you're saying he went to these places before he came to NZ and OZ? Thanks for the info on John Yates Rutter, I presume he was Ida's father?
It's not surprising he went to Quebec to see his brother William John Chapman Benson and his brother in India - Madras General Robson who I think was only a Lieut. Colonel in those days - well he was when he married Maria Balcarras over there. Do you know their daughter's marriage to John chapman bought the two lines of the family back together (from Dorothy) and then her daughter Sarah Melanie linked the Walker (Whitby fame) back together too? Also do you know of cousin James Coultas (Cowltas) in the St Laurence?
I confess that I'm fairly au fait with the English side of things because I did a heck of a lot of pre-research so we would go to all the right places while we were over there when we went over last year. (Young grandchildren prefer photographs and they're loving the overall shipping history) I've even recently found a lovely quote on a history page saying how much the Benson's of the 'Egton'; area among other many other names that carry down with them through history were the backbone of the coal, shipping and ship-building industry. It's plastered all over the net so to speak and the Whitby museum helped us heaps.
My issue rather than the qualifications ones is what happened to all the other of William Robson children? I know Thomas Barker Chapman the eldest managed Brenda Station for 25 years, Edward got bankrupt and was waiting on his Aunt Dorothy's inheritance payment to get him out of trouble. Eric (our rellie) got in to trouble but there's a plausible explanation for that. Willis' history is covered by Karen (Carna) is there anything on the others?
Likewise - of course I've got a little bit of stuff on Eric and Pauline and I'm fairly confident that Ida's sister Charlotte married Henry Kendal the poet - is this your understanding too?
On a sad note we have only one photo of Pauline and her other four sisters and 'Billy Benson' my father-in-law did not know which of the five girls in the picture is his Mum - hence neither do we. Billy was brought up by the girl's brother Ambrose. The Depression and the War caused a lot of tragedy on the home front as well as overseas!!!!
It's good to know in some ways that more money spent trying to contact the College of Surgeons wouldn't be worth it.
I've nearly written up the first five generations - Whitby- London and was going to get started about now on Barker down. I wish I thought the Australian picture was going to be as 'romantic' as the English one but somehow I don't think it will be. Looking for inspiration I guess at this point in time.
Would love to have the pictures - do you have William Robson too. I guess if they won't upload you could email them to me but I'm not putting my email address here as I just took it off the Yorkshire Dalesman site because we were getting too much SPAM.(Ugh!!!)
Look forward to seeing them.
Cheers and thanks again for the inspiration barkrels (Angela)
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Hi there,
At the thread at this link, one of the RChatters kindly provided info re Barker's birth/baptism and noted the names of his parents and a sibling for him too
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,523166.0.html
Its at reply #33, and the RChatter noted that this information had been found earlier by another RChatter.
I am looking for any information relating to Barker Joseph BENSON, apparently born in Whitby around 1815.
Possible parents are Thomas BENSON and Sarah BAKER, both also born in Whitby around 1779.
I believe Barker Joseph came to Australia around 1841.
Any help greatly appreciated,
Thanks
Carna
Cheers, JM
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Thanks again JM. . . .
I appreciate all your research on my behalf.
I am also grateful of your family's help in making records more accessible.
I can't believe that you have been searching your family history for such a long time, and I'll bet you aren't finished.
I've heard that not only is it addictive as you mentioned, but also it is never finished.
Thanks for making my journey easier,
Carna
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Dear Kim and Angela,
I love how much info you both have.
On the John Yates Rutter story and the marriage of Charlotte Rutter to Henry Kendall, I found this website about Henry Kendal and Charlotte and about John Rutter etc.
If you haven't seen it, I hope you get something out of it.
http://www.kendallfamily.name/kendall_family_nsw/wc01/wc01_019.html
Hoping all is well for you both,
Carna
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Hi Karen and Kim,
Thanks for that site. Seeing that John Yates Rutter is Charlotte's father and he is named in the SMH 1878 notice for the marriage of William Robson and Ida Florence Rutter as her late father:
Tuesday 19th November 1878 Sydney Morning Herald
BENSON -RUTTER.-November 14, at the residence of the bride's mother, by the Rev. J. Kinross, H.A., Principal of St. Andrew's Collège, William Robson, second son of the late Barker Joseph Benson, M.D., to Ida Florence, youngest daughter of the late John Yates Rutter, M.D.
I guess that makes them sisters? Anyhow I checked it out ages ago on the BMD site. I have a note somewhere there were eight children all together.
I'm sure my father-in-law Billy Benson had a signed copy of Henry Kendall's poems but it hasn't come down the line to us, feel it might have got lost in his several moves. Shame really.
Tried earlier to upload a photo of Thomas (1779) and Sarah's and Thomas(1738) and Ann's Banns notice from St Mary's Whitby but the file was too big and seeing it was 10mbs it will be hard to reduce.
It's great being at this stage of the research and having people to chat to about it. Generations 1-5 in England was a hard slog as the only relatives we were in touch with and that only happened because of a funeral were John Benson, Janet Bensonand Margaret Baxter (Benson) who are my hubbies first cousins from his Uncle John - Eric and Margaret's eldest son (Marie, John and Billy's sister died young from TB same year as their mother. They knew nothing of the family as their mother married a second time and the family lost contact. That essentially means in the last nine months we've found something like ten relatives including yourselves - eleven if you include Tiffany from Quebec which is awesome and some of it because 'Carna' created this thread!!!
Have a good weekend everybody.
Cheers again Angela
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Hi all,
At Henry Kendall Cottage (Gosford) today to see if any local history on Barker.
Nothing at museum, but hopefully some in book collection.
"Gosford and the Kendall Country," by Charles Swancott 1966, had a few snippets.
The book describes the area at the time Barker was here.
Two snippets to follow:
"On 27/4/1851, the Bench stated that the population of the district in connection with the census in the town of Gosford was 95 persons, village of East Gosford 116 and the residue of the district 1240 making a total of 1451."
(In 2006, there were 3514 just in East Gosford)
Also "On 24/6/1862, Dr Barker Joseph Benson sued John Smith Butcher, for 6 pounds, for herbage eaten and destroyed by cows and calves on land at the Doctors at Peeks Point."
I found this interesting. I know he was always after money, but this also puts him in a more specific locality, Peeks Point is now East Gosford.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Gosford,_New_South_Wales
Explains the early history of this area,
http://www.gosford.nsw.gov.au/library/local_history/subdivision/documents/Gosford/East%20Gosford%20Wells%20survey%201840.pdf
Is a parish map if the area in 1840. From dates so far, I gather Barker and Hannah were in this area by the end of 1841.
From "Place names of the Central Coast", by Eileen Pratt,
"By 1841, East Gosford was a flourishing settlement. There were two wharves, a regular boat service to Sydney, two hotels, 21 houses, others in the course of erection, three thriving stores, some small shops, a school, a bakery,and a smithy."
I hope this paints a picture of where they lived in their early days here.
All the new info for now,
Carna
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Oh Carna you've been busy,
I've been checking all my downloads tonight to finish up my English part of what I'm writing.
I found a couple of things that add to what you've found. Will have to post them tomorrow as I'm tired tonight.
1. A notice on the 'ship' William IV (don't quote me yet on No.) arriving (might be departing) I think at Benson and Parkinson Wharf.
2. Another site discussion on Barker as a surgeon in the district and the birth dates of four of his children.
I also read a 'thesis' online to night about what they called 'Generalist' doctors in England a term they adopted out here. It was a 'heavy' read but essentially it showed how much change was going on in Barker's time as far as qualifications went. It even suggested that some people just attended lectures and then called themselves a doctor. The important thing about the generalist definition was that the doctor did what he had to because of a concern for people and I'd like to think that was how Barker was - it was certainly what he would have been taught by his predecessors from Ingram Chapman all the way down (He was 1600's 'medico' of sorts).
It's been a great discussion all the way and we certainly wouldn't know half as much as we do if it wasn't for all the help we've got from everyone.
Sleep tight.
Cheers Angela
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Hi all,
Possibly new info from Gosford Library local history books . . . .
Barker Joseph and Hannah Benson (wife) came to Australia from NZ on a ship called 'Harrington' which apparently arrived in Sydney 11th September 1841.
Have found arrival of the ship, but cannot find passenger list.
Does anyone know where I might find the passenger list to clarify this info.
Thanks,
Carna
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Monday 13 September 1841The Sydney Monitor and Commercial Advertiser (NSW : 1838-1841)
ARRIVAL-SATURDAY. HARRINGTON, schooner, 187 tons, Mercer, master, from Port Nicholson, the 14th ultimo. Cargo-Sundries. Passengers, Mr. and Mrs. Benson Mr. Haswell, Mr. Bennet, Mrs. Mercer and child.
found ONLINE at trove newspapers within couple of minutes of reading your post
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper
Cheers, JM EDIT TO NOTE Surgeons are often referred to as "Mr" rather than as "Dr" .... "Mr" indicating their additional medical qualifications over and above that of "Dr"
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Thanks heaps AGAIN JM,
Another puzzle piece!
I tried every other shipping website and forgot all about trove.
I really do appreciate your help,
Carna
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Also these cuttings have Harrington arrival and passenger list
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/12871111 13 September 1841 The Sydney Herald
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/31732873 14 September 1841 Australasian Chronicle
Perhaps other papers also carry information about Barker Joseph BENSON .... the following link is to digitised newspapers from the 1840's but is NOT keyword searchable ... there's many other NSW papers there though
http://www.nla.gov.au/ferg/browselist.html
Cheers, JM
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;D Well you won't forget trove again ! Its a Treasure Trove ... that's the best way to remember to look there ;)
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Definately wont be forgetting that Treasure Trove again. It will always be my first port of call from now on.
Thanks for the reminder,
Carna
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Hi Carna & Angela,
Maybe we should organise a get together to share our info. Is that too weird? I keep reading stuff that I already know, and it would probably save you a lot of time and effort. What do you think?
regards,
Kim.
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Hi Kim and Karen,
Angela here, Rick (your rellie) and I feel that would be a good idea. I sent off an Easter email message to the more immediate cousins and there will be another 'Benson wedding' (Gemma) in June which made me think how good it could be to catch up with the wider 'cousins' as well.
We feel very happy with any extra information we have gained here which essentially only applies to Barker at the moment, although as you say we knew much of it already. I have a fair amount of info from newspapers on William - Barker's son, but the rellie connection is closer so it would be nice to build on that. I have nothing much to offer on Eric his son as Dad (Bill) had hardly anything to do with him so when Barker's stuff settles down I will be channeling energies into that.
If you're not familiar with the big picture behind Barker, we may be able to help there. I confess as a 'Pom' myself that situating the family in the Whitby area has been a real treat and given Rick his 'English roots' although 'Robin Hood's Bay is the place that really captured our hearts as it is still a living picture of life reflecting how it all looked back in the 'Whitby Benson's' time. My own roots are - born in Lichfield (within the sound of the bells of the three-spired cathedral where my own Dad sang) and then Cheltenham - of Spa and racecourse fame. We're related through his Mum and my Dad so that's an interesting family tree too. Otherwise it would be nice to just compare notes.
We are away for a couple of weeks with friends touring in our caravan and won't be back until the 6th May. I will put a post here when we get back and then hopefully all four of us could get together. We're about 20k's out of the city. Can't help wondering if there's more rellies out there watching this site - 1300 + watchers is a large no of 'interested' persons!
Good to hear from you and wondering if Karen found out anything of interest in her 'Probate' visit. Regardless,
Cheers and have a 'Happy Easter' (and all the watchers too) barkrels
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Hi Kim, Angela and Rick,
A get together sounds great. Just let me know a time and place.
Went to State Archives and viewed both Hannah and Barkers probate.
Fantastic to see original paperwork but dissapointing content.
Although he did only write his will on 30/11/1871 and died on Christmas Day same year.
He must have known something was wrong.
No property involved, both estates around 100 pounds.
Great to see original signatures, clarifying spelling of names e.g. Willis Allatson has been spelt in many ways. Also Hannah was in contact with her brothers in Sydney as one witnessed her will and during insolvency a piano was listed as belonging to a Vandervord.
Insolvency/Bankrupcy records were also good and a little more informative.
In the 1843 case for Barker, his possessions were listed as surgical instruments and the wearing apparel of Barker and his wife 30pounds, as well as store goods 100pounds and Abraham Parkinson's wearing apparell 5pounds. Barker was the senior partner and so seemed more liable. It seems Barker's father helped with the debt in this case.
For Barker's 1867 Insolvency, he lists the times (depression) and subsequent falling off of business, supporting a large family, and him being frquently laid up with gout stopping him running his business as a surgeon in Brisbane Waters. It also mentions that his wife and children have been sick for a considerable time.
Even though Willis is not your direct relative, his divorce papers were an insight into the man. He had 2 children with my great great grandmother(2nd wife), whilst still married. When his wife questioned him about it , he said that he would cohabit with as many women as he liked and started to treat her cruely, hitting her with a clenched fist, kicking her, and even holding a knife to her.
Carna
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Hi all,
As I am local to East Gosford, I am still looking around up here to provide insight into their life.
From the 1840 map of East Gosford combined with other local documents, I think I have pinpointed where the wharf and store were, even Benson Lane (not around today). Still need to confirm by looking at the 1843 map (in State Library NSW)
I went to this spot the other day and the sight is soooooo steep, I dont understand how the goods etc got to the wharf. The landscape can't have changed that much, surely.
Will keep searching,
Carna
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Hi Carna,
Presuming you found the right spot for that wharf, they may have unloaded onto the wharf and then used "flying fox" cages to get stores up to the top .... Similar systems used at many steep and remote locations including mine sites etc in the 1850's in NSW....
Alternatively, if the main wharf was accessible for deep draught vessels up from Port Jackson etc (thus built near cliff faces or steep ravines giving depth even at low tide etc) then perhaps stores were unloaded onto that wharf and then re-loaded onto several smaller and/or flat bottomed vessels (tinders etc) for transfer to more accessible shorelines with those very long jetties etc around Brisbane Waters.
EDIT TO ADD This is a restored cage used in FNQ, Barron River area (up above Cairns) to move cargo and people via a Flying Fox installation across a gorge during construction of a Dam, much later than 1840's, but same principle.
Cheers, JM
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Hi Carna!
Love all the work you have done! All those little details are so interesting and add to the total picture. I don't think Barker was a terribly well person. In his diaries he talks about not being well and having to spend a day in bed now and then, but he doesn't say what was wrong. He was only a young man at the time. If we get together I cab bring the diaries to show you and maybe copy some.
Regards,
Kim.
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Hi all,
Thanks JM, that makes sense and thanks for the picture. There were at least 3 wharves operating at the time, so that could be what happened.
I also looked at Max Sollings book at State Archives. It was interesting reading about medicine at the time and about Glebe. Thanks for the source JM.
Can't wait to get together. It would be great to look at the diaries, thanks Kim.
Barker's 1867 insolvency mentions gout.
Maybe he suffered this over a period of time.
I will continue to search local resources and will hopefully have more definite info when we get together.
Thanks to all,
Karen
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Hi everyone,
Great to see so much discussion in our absence. We called in at Carcoar on our trip to Willandra NP (Nothing to do with us), and I left my details for the Historical Society there. A lady by the name of Jill has responded and says she has no record of Dr Barker Joseph Benson but has some information on him. She wants me to tell her what I've already got so we don't double-up. I looked back through the messages on this site and Kim, you seem confident that Thomas Barker Chapman Benson- his and Hannah's first son, was born there so I'll chase that line for now as we've got so much other info.
Guess what Richard his great great grandson suffers badly from time to time? - you got it 'Gout'!!! Unfortunately goes 'hand in hand' with heart trouble which he has too. Who says there nothing in genetics?
Having been to Carcoar by car etc - up and down Victoria Pass etc, one wonders how on earth people survived. It's been good reading Vivian Stuart's 'The Australians' factual historical novels which gives a bit of an insight into the personal side of things. Carcoar was a gold town and one wonders if it might have been 'gold fever' or a posting as a Dr Neilsen gets an official posting to there 'about the time Barker 'left' and he came from you guessed it 'Brisbane Waters'.
Sad what you've written Karen about Willis. I know reading all this stuff here is light-hearted and heady and it's nice to paddle around in the 'romantic stuff' but the reality is 'Resilience' is not a 21st century phenomenon. It seems to me that what it brings home was that times were so tough and 'broke people' which is still going on today. I'm sure Richard's grandfather's issues with the grog stemmed from the depression and the deaths of his wife and daughter.
As Karen lives Gosford Way and we're south of Sydney, perhaps we need to meet somewhere in the middle. Any suggestions?
Cheers for now barkrels.
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Hi everyone!
I have always wondered why Barker and Hannah went to Carcoar. They were there well before the goldrushes, so it couldn't have been that. I always wondered if they knew someone there, but haven't been able to find any connections. I've also wondered why they went to Gosford too. Did they know someone there? It was a bit out of the way as well. It is interesting that Edward Hammond Hargreaves "discovered" gold, and also lived on the central coast at the same time as Barker and Hsnnah were there. A weird co-incidence? I'm pretty sure the Rutters were also at Gosford in the early 1840's, but don't know for how long.
I'm in the Blue Mountains, but don't mind where we meet. Sometime on the school holidays would be good perhaps.
Regards, Kim.
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Hi everyone,
Just a quick reply, this site is so... interesting. Have emailed the lady in Carcoar, and waiting on her reply. I was interested in the Hargraves connection too Kim, and had noted the Rutters presence in Gosford.
I'm posting here a comment from an email that is ten years old by Gwen Dundon who I noted on the Kendall site as a researcher. Karen you may be able to chase this as you are closer and I'm wondering who the great-great grandson is who is mentioned?
>Another early medico at East Gosford was Barker Joseph Benson, a
surgeon, whose wife Hannah Emily gave birth to four children while there...
William Robson 1845, Edward 1847, Emily Lancaster 1854 and Willis Allatson
born 1860. I had a letter in 1989 from a great grandson of this doctor
looking for information.
Private nurses and midwives cared for people in the early days of
the district, along with the doctor, and anyone seriously or injured was
transported (painfully!) to Sydney Infirmary etc, as I understand it.
In the 1920s, perhaps a bit earlier and later, there were some private
hospitals conducted in Gosford, by nursing sisters such as Khandala
(Sister M. Ricketts) in Hills St. Gosford District Hospital was not opened
until 1945, although a fund to build a cottage hospital in the town was
inaugurated in the late 19th century.
I would be grateful for any information about early medicos to add to
my very small file.
I tried the email address but it bounced (asking a bit much anyway)
Could we get together sometime in June as Rick and I are planning a trip north for the whole of July?
Cheers barkrels
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Hi, Everyone. I am new on here, But just had to comment. I am also related. Through General Robson Benson, he was my Great great great grandfather (hope thats enough greats :-\ )
I have been searching for the Benson family for several years now. Last year i hit the jackpot and have been handed heaps of info thro my mums aunt. also it confirmed all I searched is correct, bonus. I have a will of Sarah Benson, havent sat and worked out which one yet tho. Been busy trying to id a photo??!! Also given letters couple Birth, death, baptist certificates etc and have Diarys James ( Hamish ) Benson wrote. They had me in stitches!!! i now know why most of my family are slightly... strange hahaha.
Anyone following the Benson Simpson Chapman Walker trail, knows how confusing it can be and sooo addictive! I love the Bensons lol.
I got real buzz reading everyones posts. My partner found you all and emailed me. I will read thro again because i skimmed over to get to message box! Think i saw few things i didnt know about.
Thank You all
;D
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Hi Naughty Gene!
Wow! How interesting! I would love to know more about General Robson Benson, Barker's brother. I do know he had an orchid named after him, and that he lived at Ruswarp House (which I saw when I visited the U.K. two years ago.
I'd like to know more about his children etc..
I'm happy to share any info you might need about the rest of the family.
Regards,
Kim.
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Hi again to all Benson Rels,
Sorry for the delay in posts. Have returned to full time teaching after 20yr gap (only until Oct, so should be back on track then). Soooo much preparation. Not much time for anything else.
Had replied about get-together and have only just realised that I mustn't have hit send.
Great to hear from you Naughty Gene.
Where in the world are you situated?
Karen
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Hi Kim, Karen & all
I live in Surrey, Uk. I have attatched some info i think may help you in your search.
I am travelling to Whitby this weekend to further my search and will post any new finds and pics upon my return.
Gill
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Hi Gill!
Many thanks for the info. There were a few names there that I had come across in my research but until now hadn't been able to place exactly. I was lucky enough to travel to Whitby 2 years ago. Didn't have much time, but visited the church and cemetery.
Karen - weird coincidence - I have also just returned to full time teaching after many years of casual. I know what you mean about having limited time!
Regards, Kim.
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hi all, went to whitby fri till sun, went to cook museum and whitby museum, couple churches saw lots graves although lots where sadly very worn. We cheekely went door knocking!!!!! to the addresses in census records and personal diaries of James Hugh Benson ( Hamish ). grandson of General Robson Benson & son of percy Hugh Benson & Mary Eden Walker. Saw Bensons House, now b&b :O( opposite Walker street lol. great fun wkend. want to go back and stay there!
Gill x
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Hi Gill,
Great to hear that you had a great time in Whitby.
More info!!!
Like how did you go in the door knock? Anyone helpful?
Is Bensons House called that, or is it just where they lived?
And I assume Walker St was named after a relative?
Thanks for the family tree. I have only gone from us backwards to Barker Joseph, so this is all new to me.
Greatly appreciated,
Karen
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Hi all,
Hopefully these pics come through.
I believe they are the photos of portraits of Hannah Emily and Barker Joseph.
All credit for these is thanks to Kim.
Thanks heaps Kim. (It has taken me until now to work out how to post them.)
Thank again,
Karen
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Hi all i cant quite get grips with this site and how it works lol. tried posting pictures and posts but seems hit and miss?? would love to share pictures with you will try again.
Gill x
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Wow!!!!!
Apologies for being offline. We have just returned from a trip up to Cape York and back. So....
It now seems like we have the relatives of three brother's as in Barker Joseph, Willis Allatson, and General Robson on this site. Good to meet you Gill.
What an amazing sight to finally see Barker and Hannah Emily 'face to face' so to speak - thanks so much Karen.
We have always been fascinated with General Robson's story and it would be easy to divert from our quest to stick to our central line which for the most part is the same for all of us until we separate down the respective brother's lines. Interestingly for us we are the carrier's of the 'name' and it still has a possibility of going on with our grandson Liam (in about 20-30 years -he's only 2 at the moment).
I'm presuming we all have the copy of the will of Thomas Benson of Esdaileside who ensured that William 1657 inherited the family fortunes at that time?
I have the wills (courtesy of Whitby Museum) of Ann (Robson-Benson-Willis) and Thomas Willis her second husband and I find it fascinating that he leaves her Ruswarp in his will as technically it was the house she would have brought to the marriage. Thomas Willis owned much property and left it all to his stepson's William (1775) and Thomas Benson(1779) which is why the family got such a good start after their sad struggles with the men dying young. Young William Willis his own son must have been pretty peeved when he was described as imprudent.
We visited Lansdowne Cemetery, Bath, Gill, where General Robson is buried but did not find his grave. Fascinating place though with all the military people and their exploits recorded on their tombstones.
I was also fascinated recently by a piece in a 'Google online book' when I put General Robson and 'Rattlesnake' (the ship) into the search engine. He sure was a celebrated man and you can rightly be proud of your heritage. He is written about in a few online books. Have you got his write-up from the newspapers of the time? Interestingly it appears after a piece on Afghanistan (which shows nothing much has changed).
It's a shame we can't get more on William Benson c.1629 as he is the top of the tree for us. The will of Thomas I mentioned earlier has been our starting point in writing (actually that's trying to write) up the family history for our children and grandchildren.
The stuff the Museum has from the Lillian Clarke Chronicles is fascinating as has been the help of the Walker and Clemesha websites.
Like you we have several hundred people on our family tree and it's going to get even bigger when we add in the info you've shared Gill.
Cheers to everyone, glad this site is still going and we will keep on looking for what we can to help.
As for the Aussie connection we're still up for a get- together if we can find a common time. Oddly my cousin 'Gill' from another branch of our family is coming to Oz in October. We will be away again sometime in October showing her the sights.
Cheers again Angela and Richard
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Whoops given credit to wrong person for uploading the photos - so thanks Kim.
Gill will try again on attaching a file which has General Benson's death notice from the Somerset News in it.
Cheers A &R
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Hi again all,
While I'm on a roll, do you have photos of William and Ida, and/or Eric and Margaret Pauline - Kim?
We have a quirky thing in our family called the 'Benson' nose (Ha-Ha). All the kids and grandkids have it. Trouble is now we've seen Barker it's not a trait of his - seems like it may be Hannah's family coming through. Can't help wondering 'Does William feature his father or Eric his grandfather?' I may have mentioned before Dad (William) had no photos of his mother Margaret Pauline Mitchell so any help in this regard would be amazing.
Cheers again and it's time to go to bed. A &R
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Hi there,
RE PHOTOS...
I recall mentioning on one of the several threads about Barker Joseph BENSON to which I have contributed, that there are photos in a published book that may be of interest.
One photo is captioned :
"The Benson Family, Gottenham Street, 1908. At fifteen years of age Bill Benson (sitting third from left) became the bread winner after the death of his father"
Edit to Add There are six children in the photo, and one of these children is seated on their mother's lap.
Another photo is captioned :
"The Rebels 1917 - Glebe District Rubby League Club, First Grade Team .... Front Row .... W Benson...."
This book also mentions Barker Benson and William Anderson (I gently remind you that they began the first medical practice in Glebe).
The book's around 300 pages, with a good index, and detailed references. It is my view that the author (Max Solling) has a deep understanding of the history of Glebe and may well have further family history information on Barker Benson and other Benson family members.
So here are that book's details again :
Grandeur & Grit : a history of Glebe. Max Solling.
ISBN 978192083187 (HARDBACK)
Published by Halstead Press, 66/89 Jones St Ultimo NSW 2007.
This suburb of Glebe is an inner west suburb of Sydney NSW Australia.
Cheers, JM
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Hi there JM,
Thanks for the info again. Will certainly purchase the book when we get to writing up Barker's story and so on. Just still very much preoccupied with the first generations in Whitby at the moment and getting them written up.
Cheers barkrels
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Hi all,
Thanks once again JM. I have seen the book at State Archives and am unsure if it is our William.
(Can't remember but I think in the photos, William's mothers name is not Hannah, like our Williams)
Info about the Glebe area at the time and about Barker Joseph were good though. Thanks
Angela and Rick,
Great to hear the you are all back safe and sound. Most of the info you posted is new to me, so thanks heaps. We also have the 'Benson nose' in our family, but we were always told it was from my great grandmothers side of the family. Maybe not?
Definitely still want to catch up . . . . . . .
Any suggestions as to a good place in Sydney? I don't really know Sydney that well, but happy to travel anywhere to meet.
So excited about about finding you all and painting a picture of our relative's lives before us.
I knew my great grandfather until I was almost 20yrs old and Barker Joseph was his grandfather. So they don't really seem that distant.
Thank you all again for bringing them to life,
Karen
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Hi there,
I had understood that Eric Carr Withan BENSON was born at Glebe in 1885. And that his parents were William Robson Benson and Ida Florence Rutter who had married at Glebe in 1878. I had understood that Ida Benson died in 1908. I had understood that William Robson Benson was the son of Barker Joseph and Hannah Emily BENSON, and that William Robson Benson’s baptismal record of 29 June 1845 would support that.
And therefore that the children of William Robson and Ida Florence BENSON would seem to include:
Barker b 1881, Claude b 1883, Eric b 1885, Montague b 1888, Florence b 1890, Bertie b 1892, Bertha b 1894, Theodore b 1896, Marie b 1898, Richard b 1900.
I had also understood that Eric Carr Withan BENSON seems to have been married firstly in 1914 to Margaret Pauline MITCHELL who died in 1938, and then secondly to Alice May TONDUB at White Cliffs in the Western Division of NSW in 1941.
While I am not sure of all the names of the persons in the photographs in the book that I have at hand, however, as they were at Glebe, and as it seems to be that the children were all surnamed BENSON that they could well be first cousins to Eric Carr Withan BENSON, and of course the children in those photos in that book are likely to be descendants of Barker Joseph and Hannah Emily BENSON images have been uploaded to this thread.
I was prompted to again provide the information about that book simply because the discussion on this thread was making mention of photographs and of facial features. The photos in the book clearly show each person’s facial features. The book is available in various public libraries, including the National Library of Australia.
I have had another quick look at the book and cannot find where Bill Benson's mum's name is mentioned. (Bill was apparently aged about 15 when his father died as per the caption, and from the photo he was perhaps the eldest, and there is a infant on his mother's lap so perhaps Bill was still around 15 or 16 when the photo was taken in 1908).
Hi again all,
While I'm on a roll, do you have photos of William and Ida, and/or Eric and Margaret Pauline - Kim?
We have a quirky thing in our family called the 'Benson' nose (Ha-Ha). All the kids and grandkids have it. Trouble is now we've seen Barker it's not a trait of his - seems like it may be Hannah's family coming through. Can't help wondering 'Does William feature his father or Eric his grandfather?' I may have mentioned before Dad (William) had no photos of his mother Margaret Pauline Mitchell so any help in this regard would be amazing.
Cheers again and it's time to go to bed. A &R
However, as I am not a family member, perhaps I have overlooked some details, so I apologise for my apparent mis-understanding.
Cheers, JM
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Hi Everyone!
The photo of the Benson family at Glebe may be our family, but I know that there was a very good footballer who played for Glebe called William (or Bill) Benson, and that he was not related to us. I'm pretty sure that he was of Irish descent, because I got excited about possibly having a sporting champ in the family, and tried to find out if he was a cousin. I found out that he wasn't one of our Bensons. I think this could be him.
I do have a photo of William Robson Benson, in his full mason's outfit. He looks to be about 30-40 when it was taken. I also have a photo of Richard Benson (my grandfather), and yes-they do have the Benson nose! I will try and post them .
Regards,
Kim.
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William Robson Benson
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Richard Benson (b.1900)
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Ida Florence Benson (nee Rutter)
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Wow again !!!!
It was only sheer chance the other night that we decided to look at the site again after a long period of inactivity and now it is mind-blowing how much information has come to light in the last few days.
Thank you so much Jim and Kim for all the information especially the photos Kim. Richard only said this morning 'If we could get William and Ida's photos we could have all the Australian heads of generations on the wall albeit we have to guess at which of six sisters Margaret Pauline (Mitchell) is in the only photo of her that Dad had.
Eric second wife was actually Alice May Tonduit and she lived to quite a good age. Have to say Richard (your grandfather Kim) was a good looking fellow as was William his Dad in his uniform. Masonry affiliation was on both sides of our family (the other being Coyle).
It would be good for our family tree to confirm some dates of the children as I have them (good to see some of the old family names coming through as in Barker, Temple, Robson, Oswald, Carr - not sure where the Witham comes from?):
1. Thomas Barker Rutter Benson 1881- ?
2. Claude Temple Benson 1883 - 1994
3. Eric Carr- Witham (spelt with an m on his death certificate in our possession) 1885 -1961
4. Louis Robson Benson 1887 -1958
5. Montague Oswald 1888 -?
6. Florence 1890- 1940
7. Bertie 1892-1893
8. Bertha 1894 -?
9. Theodore 1896-1961
10. Marieville 1898 -1938
11. Richard 1900 -1979
This would mean Eric and Theodore died in the same year - 1961.
Also Marieville - Eric's sister, Margaret Eric's wife and Marie his daughter all died in the same year 1938. Could be said "Enough grief here to drive a man to drink" - or 'Thank God' for Alice.
I think some of the ? mean the child did not live long? Although in Montie's case we did hear Dad refer to 'Uncle Montie'. Dad (Bill) always had trouble remembering the names of his 'Uncles' and at 85 (born 1919 - died 2004) could only think of 8 which we now know is pretty good remembering for his age considering also that he was brought up by the Mitchells from a young age.
Once again thanks so much for sharing the information - it has made this site so interesting which I'm sure Karen and Gill concur with.
Cheers A &R
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Hi Kim,
Thanks for the pics. Definitely similar family traits e.g."the nose".
There is a section on the FORUM page of Rootschat that is specifically for photo restoration and dating.
I have posted a very cracked old photo on here, with fantastic results. I got 4 different versions of the photo back, sepia, cracks removed (couldn't even see where they had been), and the photo cleaned up so that I could see the facial features clearly.
This is NOT a Benson relative, but to show you to use the photo restoration page.
Oops! Sorry. Forgot to credit Studio1 for the restoration. Thanks again Rootschat!
Try posting the photo of Ida to clear it up and remove the cracks ! ! !
Karen
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Karen,
What a wonderful thing you started with your query "Looking for Barker...." and as for this forum and what Root.chats can do for you re the photos - absolutely amazing!!!!!!
Cheers A&R
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Hi everyone!
Here are a few answers to your questions.
The Carr-Withan comes from Ida's mother. Her full name was Charlotte Martin Carr-Withan Strike. This was a very flash name for someone whose father was a farm-labourer. I don't know where it came from originally!
Filling in the other dates:
William J.P. Benson (known as Percy) b. 1880, m. Alice Rusfeldt 1911 in Sydney.d.1921 (approx.)Buried Kew, Victoria.
Barker Rutter Benson b. 1881,m.1916 in England to Mary Maria Westall. (taken prisoner on the Raider Wolf during WW1) d. 9.8.1949.
Claude Temple Benson b. 11.6.1883.Not married. d. 15.4.1944 (mental hospital, Ryde)
Eric Carr-Withan Benson b.1.1.1885 at Palmerstone Terrace, Glebe Pt Rd. m. 1913 to Margaret Mitchell.m.1941 to Alice May Tonduit. d.29.11.1960.
Louis Robson Benson (known as Jack) b.1887. m. 1914 to Estelle (Stella) Hayes. d. 8.8.1958.
Montague Oswald (Monty) . 1888.m 1902 to Ina Geneva Myers. d.2.11.1942.
Florence Ida (Florrie) b.1891.Not married. d.11.12.1940.
Bertha. b. 1894.m.1919 to Edward E Walker. d.21.5.1972.
Theodore William. b.1897. m.to Sophia Winnifred Browne in 1919. m. to Isabella Dansten Bennett in 1952. d. 12.10.1961.
Marieville. b. 25.4.1898.Not married. d. 15.7.1959 at Bloomfield Hospital, Orange.
Richard (Dick) b. 15.5.1900.m.7.2.1922 to Nora Dunn. d. 1979.
I also have some information about their children. Will post later if you are interested!
Apart from my grandfather Richard, the only one I met was Aunty Bertha. I remember her (I was a young child at the time) as being rather plump, quite loud, but rather outgoing and jolly! My grandfather was quite a grumpy old man, but he didn't enjoy the best of health. I think he was more sociable in his younger days.
Regards,
Kim
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Thanks heaps for that Kim.
I knew none of this.
Extremely grateful,
Karen
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Thanks so much Kim,
Would love the info on the kids as well. You've obviously been at this for a long time. It is now only twelve months since I (Angela) started to research the Benson family tree and the English half was all researched via the net etc and confirmed by going to England late in 2010.
I was thrilled when I discovered Barker's parent's names were Thomas and Sarah and they came from Whitby. Being English myself born in Staffordshire, it felt really important to find out where Richard's roots started from. Whitby, Sleights and Robin Hood's Bay are such awesome places and then being able to go to Ruswarp and be welcomed by the present owners who made us a cup of tea and showed us around was great.
The Australian half consisted only of what I could glean from newspapers and Thomas' will, so once again we have to thank Karen for her initial query. With such a large family from William and Ida alone, it raises the question of how many Benson's there must be around who can claim Barker and Hannah as their forbears?
So thanks once again Kim for the information on William and Ida's lot. It's my belief Ida is buried out at Waverley, do you know if William is there too? One of the most awesome moments in Whitby was finding the altar grave of Thomas and William and their relatives at St Mary's and then finding out that Thomas and Sarah's and Thomas and Ann's banns of marriage are still in the church locked away for posterity. It would be nice to touch base with the Aussie ancestors too so to speak.
Have a good weekend everyone and I hope this site continues to inspire us.
Angela
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Hi all,
The National Library of Australia’s TROVE website is a valuable resource, and includes free to search digitised newspapers from c1803 to c1954. http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/home
Here’s two relevant examples that may help advance the Australian lines of the Benson family history:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/15844559 SMH 8 November 1919 Bertha BENSON’s marriage
that cutting would seem to match up with the NSW BDM online marriage index with gives Bertha BENSON marrying Edward E Walker in 1919 in the Ashfield district #8253. (Summer Hill would of course be part of the NSW BDM's "Ashfield" district.
and
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/15861172 SMH 29 July 1919 BENSON.-The Remains of the late Mrs. IDA FLORENCE BENSON will be laid to rest in the C. of E. Cemetery, Waverley, Vault Section, at 10.30 a.m. The Funeral Is appointed to leave Hinemoa, 230 Old Canterbury-road, Summer Hill .....
That cutting would seem to match up with the NSW BDM online index which shows that the death of Ida F BENSON, dau of John Y and Charlotte C was registered in 1919 in the Ashfield district. #14705 and supports the notion re Waverley Cemetery as mentioned at reply #85.
Here is a link to the NSW Resources board at Rchat, I recommend it to you all. http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,369703.0.html
there are so many links there on so many topics. Perhaps there's a link to lead your research to Waverley Cemetery to follow up on Ida Florence Benson and to find who else was interred in the same Vault.
Here is a link to the NSW BDM online http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/howToTraceYouFamTree.htm
Transcript copies of NSW BDM certificates are cheaper and quicker (they can come by email) and contain the same information as the formal certificates. I find that BDM certificates have been great for validating my own research on my own tree.
Cheers, JM
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Thanks again JM,
I'm sure there are other relatives at Waverly Cemetery.
Seeing Nana today and will ask her as they used to visit the family gravesites regularly and should know. will keep all posted.
After a few reminders. . . . . I'm back to Trove !
Thanks again,
Karen
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Re Dr Barker Joseph BENSON...
From the digitised newspapers, the last surviving son of the late Dr Barker Joseph BENSON MD was William Robson Benson. William R Benson died 9 June 1926, at age 84 or 85. (two notices on same page of same edition of the SMH of 10 June 1926. He died at a private hospital at Marrickville, the widower of the late Ida Florence Benson.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/16297916
From the NSW BDM online index it gives a clue about that private hospital... “Home of Peace” The NSW BDM index reference #7441.
;D Trove is a wonderful resource ;D it is free to search online from just about anywhere around the globe... There are many on-going projects associated with trove, including additional newspapers being added regularly. The National Library of Australia is one of our great institutions.
Cheers, JM
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Hi Jim,
Thanks for all the information, which confirms information we have. To add to this he was not only looked after in the hospital but was one of the 'Founding Fathers', so to speak.
Information about William is easy to glean as he is well written up in the newspapers especially as an Alderman and then the Mayor of Marrickville. Considering the numbers of kids he and Ida had he was an amazing fellow. I've said before that I love the council report about the decision to tar Canterbury road. It sort of really sets him in the time of Australia history when everything was progressing into the modern era.
You and others may be interested in these other dates and his accomplishments. Have a read of:
Thursday 29th May 1873 SMH
Queens Birthday Regatta - He is on the guest list along with others as a rep of The Marine Board of NSW - Have a look at the company he was keeping.
Tuesday 26th Jan 1875 SMH 87th Anniversary of founding of the Colony - he is listed as WR Benson Esq in the 'Guest of honours' and as a committee member.
14th October 1875 SMH he's the Honored Secretary of the Mercantile Rowing Club.
4th January 1890 is another story.
9th February 1894 SMH he is the manager of the Wharf Association Marrickville.
7th May 1898 SMH is Hospital Saturday - fund raising day and he is an Alderman.
3rd September 1898 SMH he addresses the Stanmore Congregational Church.
20th January 1899 the hospital is now known as Marrickville Cottage Hospital and William is noted as JP and Mayor.
Same date is a reference to a Banquet in his honour.
Monday 12th June 1899 SMH is a story about the opening of the hospital
11th September 1900 SMH is another reference.
If anyone's got any other info or you can source other stuff Jim I'd be happy to read it.
He fascinates us as a man with such a huge social conscience. As Kim wrote in a previous post - He died 'penniless'.
Cheers and thanks for your interest - this site is really portraying an interesting part of Australian history.
Angela
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Hi Angela,
I consider trove to be a great secondary resource, easy to access, easy to search and among the best for NSW 19th Century searching on the growth of democracy in the colony. To me, the digitised newspapers (an on-going project with many volunteers helping with OCR 'translations') are a grand way for following the development of much of the written history of Australia. I prefer though to get closer to primary records when it comes to specific events about my own family members,as I have many private papers across a number of generations. Thus for example I have found a great deal of detail in the holdings at the NSW SRO and these support much of both my oral history and the private papers. Many of the NSW SRO indexes are online. These indexes are all freely available and do not require any "log in" or subscription payments to access.
So if I had found BENSON in any of my own family trees, and they were NSW based, I would consider checking every file that mentioned that surname at the NSW SRO, including for example these two that mention another of Dr Barker Joseph Benson’s sons.... Willis. (I have done similar for each of my NSW forebears lines, and on one line I am 7th generation NS Waler :) with our newest family member being 10th generation)
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/keyname.aspx .
Divorce papers 1890, # 0574 Emily Benson v Willis Allitson and also
1891 #0683 George Dagg v Mary Ann Dagg, with co-respondent as Willis Allison Benson.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,513004.msg3693249.html
The are many many links on the NSW Resources Board here at RChat.
Re WR Benson’s civil positions in the community, has anyone contacted the archivist at the local government level? http://www.marrickville.nsw.gov.au/council/contact_us.html?s=904188452
Re Dr Barker Joseph Benson ... has anyone contacted the author of the book I have mentioned on several occasions.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Solling
Cheers, JM (I am not "Jim", wrong gender to be Jim, and spell check can give confusing options ;D ;D ;D )
Hi Jim, ...... Cheers and thanks for your interest - this site is really portraying an interesting part of Australian history. Angela
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Hi everyone!
William Robson & Ida Benson are buried at Waverley. I have been to visit them several times and last time took a photo. Will post it when I have time. They are buried with their infant son.
regards,
Kim.
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Hi everyone watching this site,
Haven't forgotten you all and now wish you a Happy Christmas.
Will be printing up the first part of the Benson history - Whitby and London for the kids for Christmas. It's 70 pages long so not a bad start.
Whilst ensuring I'd got enough info on General Robson Benson to pay him enough homage (He was an influential man) I started to come across stuff related to the Bowler's and it would seem that Major John Bowler's father Henry was in Madras at the same time as Robson. This makes me wonder if Barker went to Carcoar on a recommendation or something?
That said we sent away for Thomas Barker Chapman's Birth Certificate and received a copy of his Baptism Certificate. It has some interesting info on it.
Baptised 2/4/1844 at Parish of St James, Sydney performed by Chas C. Kemp
Barker and Hannah's abode is recorded as Carcoar and Barker's profession is M.D.
Major John Bowler was the Police Commissioner in Carcoar in 1839 -? Also retired in the district and buried at Kelso, Bathurst.
Starting on the Aussie stuff next year and looking at our 46 pages of discussions this has been an awesome information resource for 2011.
Wishing everyone good health and cheer
BRATP (Thank goodness it wasn't an S at the end!!!!!!)
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Hi everyone!
How interesting! I always thought that Barker must have known someone at Carcoar, but couldn't figure out who. What great detective work! It's funny how one piece of the jigsaw puzzle leads to another.
Regards,
Kim.
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Hi im not sure if youve seen this..
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13213213
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Thanks Bakerboy,
Yes, Have seen it before
Cheers
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Hello Family !!!!
My name is Simone Allaston I am Barker Joseph Benson 5xGreat granddaughter. Willis Allatson was my 4x great grandpa... hence my name. It changed in his children's generation by a typo would you believe. I have spent years and have collated a booked on Barker, his family in England, his Australian family and also Emily Knipe's family. I have a bible of Emilys and photo of the families graves.
Would love to chat and compare notes and share what I have.
I'm new to this site so not sure how to contact you directly.... will check back in the next few days.
Simone xx
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P.s. I have copies of Barker's hand written journals from his travels too. I know of the distant cousins of another of Barkers sons that have the original and also they have the original painting you have as your profile pic.
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Hi Carna,
I would love a photo of Willis. I am a descendant from is first marriage so we lost track of him and never new how he ended up. These threads have been amazing.
You mentioned a relative Kim Lynch, who I've spoken to and exchanged family info with 5-6 years ago.
So exciting to put more pieces in place.
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Hi Simone,
Angela and Richard here (He's your direct relo.) Good to see this thread start up again. I have read yours and JM's discussion on Dr Benson and also Thomas BC his eldest son so will reply there with relevant info.
Cheers
PS It seems you may be in OZ - where?
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Hi,
I was hoping people were still checking these threads... I'm in Sydney.
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Hi, I'm new to this, but am also a direct descendent of Barker Joseph Benson through his son William Robson - my grandfather was Theodore, born 1896. Have been searching info for a few years now and have a few questions that others may have answers to:
Is there an explanation for Barker Joseph Benson to be travelling steerage on Catherine Stewart Forbes with Hannah, while a Joseph Benson Barker travelled Cabin? A bit of a coincidfence?
Also, on my grandfather's birth certificate twins (I think) are shown as 16 years - William & John P. - yet I can find no other mention of them anywhere.
I will sift through my info once I have read all the prededing to see if I can add to it - my mother tells me that William Robson enjoyed the drink and also that Barker had an orange orchard - this is, however, word-of-mouth.
Barker is also shown as a surgeon on William Robson's birth certificate & his own death cert - he died suffering rheumatic gout, disease of the valaves of the heart and anasarca, which is an accumulation of fluids in the body.
Thanks for all this new info,
Lou
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Wow, another rellie. Angela, the genealogist, wife of Richard (who is the direct descendant via William's son Eric) here. Good to hear from you Lou4lou. Others have gone quiet on the two threads - have you also looked at the Dr Benson or Quack forum?
Looking across the family tree, I have often wished some of the other descendants from the other 'kids' were watching and could add to the discussion. Will have to look at the Catherine S.Forbes passenger list again - but as Sarah Barker's mother was a Barker and her sister Elizabeth was also in London and married to a Chapman it seems likely the Barker boy if it isn't just the same person would be a relative of their brother therefore Barker's nephew.
The twin situation I've never come across - that's a newie.
Also Barker having an orange orchard - there is a big display on one of the orange orchards - a McPhee (our daughter-in-law's maiden name) at Mangrove Mountain at Henry Kendall Cottage museum - so orange cultivation for Barker is not too remote I suppose.
Not surprising Eric enjoyed the drink if if Dad William did, but William spent so much time in pubs as the chairman of some committee, it's not surprising if he liked it a lot.
Keep in touch and check out the other forum also. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say 'any new info welcome' on this enigma of a man Barker J, who is managing to keep this rootschat forum bouncing along.
Cheers Barkrels - are you in Sydney too?
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This is just an aside note and may amount to anything. but I noticed the Hannah was sponsored by her aunt Mrs Lancaster when she came to Australia. From what I understand Hannah's family didn't arrive in Sydney till maybe 5 years after her. But I noticed that he Aunt Mary Vandervord married Charles Lancaster? Could this be the mysterious sponsor? I can't find anything on Aunt Mary but maybe she is the missing link that could explain Barker and Hannah's early movements?
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Hi Simone,
Can you tell me how you found out about Hannah being sponsored? I'd like to find out if other relatives came out the same way. I have Hannah's father as William Heard Vandervord, with 6 siblings - Mary Warrington (1790), Mary (1788), George John (1792), James Wilson (1795), Alfred (1797) and Haratio (1801). This is from Family Search IGI: P018041. Probably one of these Marys is the sponsor.
I cannot find a record of William's marriage, but have his wife as Ann Kemp.
Just realised that the first Mary died shortly after birth, so Mary Warrington must have been aunt referred to - does anyone know where the Warrington came from?
As for Charlotte Carrwithin - her mother, wife of John Strike, was Johanna Carrwithin - hence the middle name. Records show her surname as Cowbrethen, but if you view the original, you can see how a misinterpretation of the spelling could occur
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Hi Lou, Angela, Simone Etc,
I have been a bit busy with work and other things lately, so haven't had too much time to spend family treeing, but just had a quick browse and was happy to see some new posts.
How interesting that you and I share a great grandfather, Lou. My grandfather and your grandfather were brothers. I am related to William Robson Benson's youngest son, Richard, b 1900. Which one of Theo's children are you related to? They would have been my father's cousin, and would have known him. I will try to answer some of your questions:
I think that Barker Joseph Benson & Joseph Benson Barker are the same person. I don't know why he would have been recorded twice on the ship's log, but have come across this kind of error before.
There were no twins. The eldest child of William Robson Benson was William J P Benson (known as Percy).
I had also heard that William Robson Benson enjoyed a glass of whiskey and a game of cards, and that is why they never had much money!
I believe that Hannah's aunt, Mary Vandervord Lancaster was her sponsor. The mystery is why Hannah decided to travel to New Zealand as an assisted emigrant, when she came from a very wealthy family. Was she running away from home, with the help of her aunt?Her uncle George John Vandervord married Ann Chapman. Does this provide a link with the Bensons? Did Hannah know Barker before she left England? I don't know if we will ever find out the answers to these questions.
I have Johanna Strike's name as Johanna Carruthers. I think that they were very bad spellers.
Charlotte Strike's full name was Charlotte Martin Carrwithan Strike.
I was fortunate enough to visit Linkinhorne a few years ago and found the grave of John & Johanna Strike. They are buried with their grandson John.
I don't know if all this is any help, or just adds to the confusion, but it is interesting, isn't it?
Simone, I did get your phone message, and will ring you soon!
Best wishes to all my Benson rellies,
Kim.
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Hi Kim,
Thanks for your information. My mother is Thea - eldest daughter of Theodore. She remembers your grandfather & grandmother, and remembers also that they had two sons, but had little to do with the boys, as they did not live nearby.
The reason I thought that there were twins is because, on Theodore's birth certificate William AND John P. are named as being 16 years.
I have Johanna Strike with the maiden name Cowbrethan, but when you view the original marriage certificate it is easy to see how the writing could be misinterpreted, and Carrwithen seems more probable. I cannot find and info on her family even after being in contact with the county clerks in the areas around Northill. Have you been able to verify John's parents? There were a few John Strikes born in Northill around the same time.
Once again, thanks for your input.
Lou
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Carna: The woman whose picture you use as your message icon is apparently my mother's great grandmother. Some 34 years ago my mother and I visited Ruswarp Old Hall nr Whitby where her research indicated that her great grandfather had lived. I understand that this person was Barker Joseph BENSON. My mother's research records him as a "doctor" and that (as I recall) he married the daughter of a Dutch sea (fishing boat?) captain.
One of his sons was Thomas Barker Chapman BENSON (1844-1916) who was for many years the manager of Brenda Station nr Goodooga in north western NSW. He is my maternal great grandfather and I understand that my grandmother grew up on Brenda Station with her 5 sisters and her 4 brothers. She had the most extraordinary handwriting, very difficult to decipher, and this was excused by the explanation that she and her sisters had been educated by governesses rather than being exposed to the rigours of the NSW education system as it was then.
I was surprised that earlier replies to your enquiry say that baptismal records show that Joseph Barker's eldest son, Thomas Barker Chapman BENSON, was born in Carcoar. This is contradicted by his obituaries that all say that he was born in England! An example is at http://oa.anu.edu.au/obituary/benson-thomas-barker-c-101. However a search of the NSW Register of Deaths, Marriages and Births (BMDs) confirms that Thomas B C BENSON was born at Carcoar, NSW, on Mar 16 1844 to Barker J BENSON and Hannah E BENSON.
The obituaries also say that Thomas B C BENSON was a first cousin of E.W.BENSON (Edward White) who was Archbishop of Canterbury.
That suggests that his father was a bother of Edward White BENSON but I have seen no evidence for that. I now wonder why he would wish to claim that he was born in England and was a first cousin of an Archbishop of Canterbury. Did he want to distance himself from his father and brothers for some reason and appear to be more "respectable"?
According to the online NSW Register of Deaths, Marriages and Births, the children of Barker Joseph BENSON and Hannah E BENSON were:
1844 BENSON, THOMAS B C
1845 BENSON, WILLIAM R
1847 BENSON, EDWARD V
1849 BENSON, JOHN H
1852 BENSON, JAMES J
1854 BENSON, EMILY L
1860 BENSON, WILLIS A (at Gosford)
It was interesting to read in earlier replies about the life of some of my great grandfather's siblings listed above. However this list is not very detailed and reference should be made to more in-depth research on this family carried out by 'blynch2' and cited in reply #7 to this thread. I would be grateful to have any further information that adds to or confirms (or otherwise) any of the above.
The obituary cited earlier for Thomas B C BENSON also said that he "is survived by a widow and eight children, one of whom is Mr. Thomas J. Benson, of Braeside, Dalveen". Again, a search of the online NSW Register of BMDs shows that he and his wife Amy (nee Single) had 10 children between 1879 and 1894, among them my maternal grandmother. I always thought the daughters were known as Edith, Ella, May, Maude, Gert and Ivy but the records from the NSW online BMD Register caused some initial doubt about this. However there is much more detailed information on the family at http://www.myheritage.com/family-2_2000072_63276681_63276681/benson-thomas-barker-chapman-benson-amy-adams-single-benson and this provided all the given names of each child which I have set out below. Obviously some of the girls chose to be known by other than their first given name! The 10 children were, in order of birth:
08/01/1879 BENSON, GERTRUDE DOROTHY (b. GLEBE, d. 09/05/1965)
01/03/1880 BENSON, SARAH MAY (b. WARIALDA, d. 06/07/1965)
25/10/1881 BENSON, THOMAS BARKER JOSEPH (b. WARIALDA, d. 22/02/1936)
03/05/1883 BENSON, AMY MAUDE (b. MOREE, d. 03/06/1960)
03/05/1885 BENSON, FRANK CHAPMAN (b. MOREE, d. 1912)
14/02/1887 BENSON, ELLA R (LILLIAN) (b. MOREE, d. 26/11/1987)
10/08/1888 BENSON, EDITH SUSANNA (b. MOREE, d. 16/05/1975)
27/01/1890 BENSON, MURIEL IVY (b. MOREE, d. ?)
04/09/1891 BENSON, RAY OSWALD (b. GOODOOGA, d. 27/05/1921 at BREWARRINA)
07/02/1894 BENSON, FREDERICK ERIC (b. GOODOOGA, d. ?)
Frank pre-deceased his fathe who died in 1916. On the other hand, Ella, who I remember well, died 3 months short of her 101st birthday in 1987! One of the more curious coincidences is that Thomas died in Chatswood age 54 on 22 Feb 1936 just 4 days after his mother (Amy Adams BENSON) who died nearby in Roseville on Feb 18, 1936 at the age of 80. I grew up in Chatswood and we often passed the house in Roseville where my mother's grandmother had lived as a widow until her death.
This is my first posting to RootsChat so apologies in advance if I have got the etiquette wrong.
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I hope that contributors to this thread can help shed light on the following mystery and related enquiry.
BACKGROUND: The obituaries of the eldest son of Barker Joseph BENSON, Thomas Barker Chapman BENSON (1844-1916), strongly imply that he represented himself as being born in England and that he was a first cousin of Edward White BENSON (1829-1896) who was Archbishop of Canterbury from 1883 until his death. One such obituary that makes this claim is at http://oa.anu.edu.au/obituary/benson-thomas-barker-c-101.
However earlier replies to this thread, supported by a search of the online NSW Register of Births, Marriages and Deaths, make it clear that T B C BENSON was actually born in Carcoar, NSW, in 1844, not England!
This puts into doubt the other claim of T B C BENSON of being a first cousin of E W BENSON.
QUESTION: What exactly makes you a "first cousin" to somebody? In the present case I understand it to mean that his father, Barker Josepf BENSON, must be a brother of E W BENSON. However there is no evidence to support that relationship. Can Barker Josepf BENSON be some other relation of E W BENSON so that his son would still be a first cousin to the latter?
Thanks in advance for any help with this.
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Hi Gill,
Stumbled across your posts while I was surfing the net for family tree stuff. I am a descendant of Barker Joseph Benson, who was General Robson Benson's brother. Would love to share info with you if you are interested.
Regards,
Kim.
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Hi,
I am hoping Majm will see this post.
What was the name of the book of photos you were referring to?
I was prompted to again provide the information about that book simply because the discussion on this thread was making mention of photographs and of facial features. The photos in the book clearly show each person’s facial features. The book is available in various public libraries, including the National Library of Australia.
I am a descendant of Barker via Willis Allatson.
Cheers,
Simone
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Hi there,
RE PHOTOS...
I recall mentioning on one of the several threads about Barker Joseph BENSON to which I have contributed, that there are photos in a published book that may be of interest.
One photo is captioned :
"The Benson Family, Gottenham Street, 1908. At fifteen years of age Bill Benson (sitting third from left) became the bread winner after the death of his father"
Edit to Add There are six children in the photo, and one of these children is seated on their mother's lap.
Another photo is captioned :
"The Rebels 1917 - Glebe District Rubby League Club, First Grade Team .... Front Row .... W Benson...."
This book also mentions Barker Benson and William Anderson (I gently remind you that they began the first medical practice in Glebe).
The book's around 300 pages, with a good index, and detailed references. It is my view that the author (Max Solling) has a deep understanding of the history of Glebe and may well have further family history information on Barker Benson and other Benson family members.
So here are that book's details again :
Grandeur & Grit : a history of Glebe. Max Solling.
ISBN 978192083187 (HARDBACK)
Published by Halstead Press, 66/89 Jones St Ultimo NSW 2007.
This suburb of Glebe is an inner west suburb of Sydney NSW Australia.
Cheers, JM
Hi,
I am hoping Majm will see this post.
What was the name of the book of photos you were referring to?
I was prompted to again provide the information about that book simply because the discussion on this thread was making mention of photographs and of facial features. The photos in the book clearly show each person’s facial features. The book is available in various public libraries, including the National Library of Australia.
I am a descendant of Barker via Willis Allatson.
Cheers,
Simone
;D
JM
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Thank you so much! I look for it now.
I am a decedent from Barker's son Willis. Any information I can share please let me know.
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Hi all, interesting to see these posts after so many years. We have moved, changed email address etc and yet our old email account still exists and I happened to look at it and found Simone's post. Must be the boredom that has got people searching again.
I've written four books since the last time I posted - thanks to the Hearth Tax documents on line I have sourced Barkers rels a lot further back even to America also our other 7 lines (ours that is). Also I've researched the Isle of Pines connections, Major John Bowler being an associate of General Robson -Barkers brother. Thomas Barker no 1 son being born in England and baptised by Charles Kemp - a relative here - so much info out there, and have several theories but not necessarily provable ones. He (Barker ) certainly doesn't want to be forgotten.
Hoping everyone is well and coping with the lockdown.
Angela
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Hello Angela,
I will update your old profile with you new details and send you out a new password ;)
Regards
Sarah
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Hi Family,
Angela I'd love to read or buy copies of your books.
Are you on Ancestry.com?
Cheers,
Simone
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Hi Simone, unfortunately there is only one hard cover of the book pertaining to the Bensons and I didn't write it for sale, it was written for our kids and grandkids to know where they came from. As I said many things came together to pose pictures and it depends whether your interest is with Barker or the Benson family backwards.
If it is the family backwards I can recommend documents to find on line so that you can look at them and see if they present the same picture to you as they did for me. Also the book that helps show the Benson family being involved in Shipping for nigh on 300 years.
As for Barker again I can point you to documents or articles I found that 'explain' some possible things to explain Barker's law and 'doctor' degrees and other co-incidences.
I did buy your book on line but as your line comes from Willis and Richard's through Eric it was more a help to see how the Temple line joined in.
As an aside Richard and I are 4th cousins -confirmed by DNA and our common line there is the Godwins. My interest was, till I gave up and decided it was too hard to prove, would be having us joined together into Henry Godwin Temple as well as our Godwin 3 times great grandparents. Cheers Angela