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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Tipperary => Topic started by: Hammond01 on Saturday 12 February 11 12:23 GMT (UK)
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My grt grandfather James Shea (on his bith certificate,later used the name O'Shea) was born 1891, Carrick on Suir Tipperary in the workhouse.
His mother was listed as Ellen Shea, no father.
From talking to family members we seem to think he had one brother - Garrigan.
I can find no info on the name Garrigan O'Shea (or any record of anyone even having the name Garrigan). Does anyone know if this was an Irish name of the time?
James had a son, Michael O'Shea born 1919 Carrick on Suir, Ballyrichard Road.
His mother was Annie Shea.
Family members seem to think James and Annie also had two other sons, James and Patrick.
I have no info on these.
Lasly, from James' military records I can ascertain that Annie was living on Ballyrichard Road at the time of their marriage (1915) to the time Michael O'Shea was born (1919). Ellen (his mother) was living, what looks like Garryrue or Garysue Carrick on Suir. Does anyone recognise this as a place in Carrcik?
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Here's the topic you started on this family yesterday:
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,513386.msg3693875.html
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I am a granddaughter of a James O'Shea who lived in Royal College St London 'till he died around 1981. Didn't take much notice of things going on around me, but I think it was Harrigan as a surname not garrigan as Christian name. He always said his first wife's name was Hannie. Can't remember his second wife's name or if she was mother to Paddy, Mary and Billy, but his eldest son was Micky.
Hope this helps.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_townlands_of_County_Tipperary
There are three "Garryroe" place names for Co. Tipperary listed on this link.
As Carrick-on-Suir is very close to borders of counties Kilkenny, Tipperary and Waterford, the place you are looking for, could possibly be in any of them. There is also a place name called Garnarea close to Carrick-on-Suir, which I have also seen spelt as "Garrynarea"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_townlands_of_County_Kilkenny
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_townlands_of_County_Waterford
I realize that Hammond01 the original poster has not been on Rootchat since 2012.
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Hi, my Grandfather was Patrick Oshea , born 1900, Carrick on Suir. Also known as Garrigan. Married Anastasia Flaherty and had lots of children. Inc James, Sean, Breda, Francis,Eileen, Stella, Richard, Patrick, Raymond. If anyone can help with more info please??
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Welcome to RootsChat
Patrick O'Shea and Anastasia O'Flaherty 7 April 1927.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1927/09102/5292539.pdf
Do they sound like yours?
The O is only used once with the Flaherty, someone got a bit carried away by the look of it.
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If that is the correct couple this looks like Anastasia and family in 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tipperary/Carrickbeg_Urban/Leaf_Road/838943/
haven't found her birth yet but this looks like her sister Kate
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jfx/
Mothers name Habessy
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Mother's name should be Hahessy and she was registered as Staisa, bottom of the page.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1904/01836/1716815.pdf
The Mother's surname is different for every child Halessy this time
Ellen 1902
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jfy/
I guess I should stop in case it's the wrong family.
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Sinann, thanks so much, that looks like that is the marriage certificate for my Grandparents. I'm going to look at the other links for more but you are a great help and thanks for the fast reply.
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Think this is Richard and Ellen's marriage but if it is there is yet another spelling of her surname
Richard Flaherty and Ellen Hashey 1897
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1897/10465/5811161.pdf
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Sinann you have had much better success then me at finding my family, I'm 99% sure the Flaherty family on these records are my grandmother 's . I'm going to search using the links some more. Thank you
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Patrick is proving more problematic
His family may not have been using the O of O'Shea at the time of the 1911 Census.
I know you said he was born 1900 (that could be a bit out could it?) but he may not have originally been from Carrick on Suir. There is a Shea family at the address he gives on the marriage, they may be relations.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tipperary/Carrick_on_Suir__Urban_/Gray_Stone_Street/839584/
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Yes thanks Sinann, I can't find a birth certificate for him, my father passed away last year but my mother is pretty sure he was born November 1900. I've managed to get info on his brother James from the forum but nowhere near as thorough as your links.
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I think I found my Grandfather on the census, a boy Patrick Shea named as step son to the fitzgeralds of 1 Kerwans Lane, Carrick on Suir. He did have a brother James which leads me to believe his mother re-married.
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I was looking at him but wasn't sure as he doesn't say father deceased on marriage, of course it only says that if the question was asked.
I didn't know he had a brother James at the time of course.
Worth looking at some more.
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Yes all very interesting and presently searching the church records to find Elizabeth fitzgeralds marriage certificate ( to Shea or Fitzgerald). Again thanks for your help and what a superb website.
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This family
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tipperary/Carrick_on_Suir__Urban_/Kerwan_s_Lane/839647/
There is this marriage
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1903/10257/5733301.pdf
But she isn't a widow.
There is also a Patrick Shea, mother Ellen Shea in Feb 1900
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1900/02004/1770432.pdf
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I may just be clutching at straws but it all seems to fit. The fact she isnt a widow may be a show stopper. I'm new at this and can't thank you enough for your help.
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You have to keep an open mind with this genealogy stuff, I haven't found a James though, or an Unknown. (Registered without a first name)
You would need to check out James Fitzgerald more to make sure it's the correct couple as the census.
It's not unusual for people to make up father's when they are getting married but this census and marriage are still only a possible.
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http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Carrick_On_Suir/Church_Street/1694051/
This looks like the same Mr Fitzgerald 10 years earlier, the Fitzgerald kids ages roughly add up and James was a widower.
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Looks good.
A Bridget wife of James died in July 1903 with the same address as James on the marriage to Ellen
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1903/05651/4590952.pdf
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Ellen gets a stable home for her and her sons, James get a mother for his children, but is her son Patrick the correct Patrick?
Do you know if James married, it would be interesting to see his cert to see what is down for his father?
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Hmm, I just looked into that and I may have gone off target. James Shea born 1891 making him too old to be the same step son. , I might rewind a bit.
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Hmm, I just looked into that and I may have gone off target. James Shea born 1891 making him too old to be the same step son. , I might rewind a bit.
The James O'Shea from the other thread, mother Ellen, no father.
Have another look at the original image of the 1911 Census, could James' age be 19 and 11 months, rather than 12 and 11 months.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003370765/
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Meanwhile, on the marriage Ellen's father is James Shea a shoemaker.
There was a James a shoemaker in Carrick on Suir about the right time.
Birth of James Shea.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1865/03550/2306837.pdf
Early births can be a bit hit and miss so Ellen may not have a cert but a cross reference with church records might prove successful.
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Getting back to Ellen's family, I think these are her parents in 1901, even though David's birth place changes.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Carrick_Beg_Urban_Carrick_on_Suir_Town/Leaf_Road/1693562/
The ages are too young but when Julia dies in 1906, it's says she is 65, which seems far more likely.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1906/05552/4557805.pdf
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Although the birth county has changed, carrick on suir is half in Tipperary and half in Waterford, so still possible. But I'm missing the link to David and Julia, what makes you think these are her parents?
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The spelling of the surname keeps changing but
On Richard and Ellen's marriage her father is David Hashey, on the 1911 Census David Hahesy, father in law widower is living with them, born Kilkenny.
And I forgot to add
Ellen born 1877, mother Julia Clifford.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1877/02995/2097635.pdf
The 1901 David born Waterford and wife Julia are the closest match despite the ages and place of birth change.
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... Lasly, from James' military records I can ascertain that Annie was living on Ballyrichard Road at the time of their marriage (1915) to the time Michael O'Shea was born (1919). Ellen (his mother) was living, what looks like Garryrue or Garysue Carrick on Suir. Does anyone recognise this as a place in Carrcik?
I realise that this is an old topic, but from doing a bit of digging in another unrelated topic, I found a reasonable possibility on the specific point of the whereabouts of 'Garryrue' in Carrick on Suir, so thought that I might as well post it for future readers.
In the other topic, there was mention of 'Garryrue' and 'Garry Rue Lane' and a place name called 'Red Garden' in Carrick on Suir. The following item from the 'The School's Collection' of folklore and local tradition compiled by pupils in Irish schools between 1937 and 1939 appears to explain matters:
Garry Ruadh:-
This part of Carrick is situated to the north of Town Wall. It is a large uncultivated patch of earth. When the Summertime comes the place is filled up with wild red poppies. Hence the name Red Garden or Garry Ruadh.
https://www.duchas.ie/en/cbes/4922249/4864102
(I'm wondering... maybe derived from garraí = garden/field, ruadh = red?)
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Found Red Garden on the old map (Orange coloured bit)
https://bit.ly/2FhRBWY