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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: Mundell on Saturday 19 February 11 18:02 GMT (UK)
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My Great Grandparents lived in Macadams Lane, Milton where my grandfather Robert Gledinning Mundell was born about 1870/2. Can anyone rell me where this place was located? I can't find it on any old maps so far
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Hi Mundell
There is a Milton district in Glasgow City. This looks to be the entry for the birth:
ROBERT GLENDINNING MUNDELL b. 25 June 1871 in Tradeston, Glasgow to James Mundell and Mary Currie
Have a look at this Lanarkshire links page, a number of maps links included www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,510660.0.html Sometimes though the specific lanes are hard to find on these maps.
Monica :)
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This might help you to try and locate where McAdams Lane, Milton was http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/LANARK/1999-07/0932697470 which is from the 1881 census:
Enumeration District 41
Garscube Rd
Mc Adams Lane
North Woodside Rd
North Woodside Rd Back Lane
Enumeration District 42
Garscube Rd (Shop)
Garscube Road
Mc Adams Lane
North Mc Adams Lane
North Woodside Road
North Woodside Road St Josephs R C Chapel
You can use the main references of Garscube Road and North Woodside Road to guide you on the maps.
Monica
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Hello Monica,
Thank you so much for that. I was amazed to have such a quick response to my very first query on Rootschat. I will follow that up and it looks as though that link will be helpful in other ways too.
Thanks again. Mary
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Hello again Monica,
Thanks for your second message. Yes, I have a copy of that birth Cert. and the marriage cert. of James Mundell and Elizabeth Currie. That route is quite productive as her mothere's name was Glendinning. However, I hesitate to trust it too far because there is a confusion that I have not been able, so far, to resolve.
Robert Glendinning Mundell married my Grandmother, Alice Marsden (nee Walton) in 1909. He gave his age as 35, which would have made his birth year about 1874. He also named his parents as Robert Mundell and Mary Mundell (nee Munroe deceased). Now a little miscalculation is possible, but I have not been able to find this couple - either a marriage or on census returns. It is possible that he was born to one couple and brought up by another - whichever way round that might have been. So there is more work for me to do.
If anyone has information about this couple - Robert Mundell and Mary Munroe, I would be very grateful.
Regards, Mary
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Mary, have you double checked his death cert to see whether same names were given by informant to his death registration?
Did he use any particular names for his children with Alice that might help give clues? Did he use the middle name of Glendinning on his later registrations?
I can easily see him in 1881 with parents James and Mary. Entries after for 1891 and 1901, less clear that he is there :-\ The release of the 1911 census in Scotland (5 April) might let you reconfirm age and place of birth for him.
Monica
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There is a likely death for mother Mary Currie/Mundell in 1889, twenty years before Robert's marriage in 1909....I wonder if this is part of the problem and your Robert got muddled at the time of his marriage - does happen unfortunately.
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Good Morning Monica,
Thank you so much for those last two messages.
First of all, thanks to your guidance, I have found where Macadam's Lane was. Exactly where you said. It no longer exists, of course, but it does appear on a 1892 map. Don't ask me to explain how I found that because I cannot tell you as I followed so many links to get there.
Robert Mundell's death cert. of 1915 is not too helpful, as he died of pneumonia, emphysema, and pulmonary embolism, in Weymouth. He was a Sergeant in B company 14th Royal Scotts Regiment. So I assume this is a war death. I don't know how to obtain more details of whether this was a normal illness or a trench related condition.
His marriage cert. states his employment as marine stoker at that time, so he may have been at sea for earlier census's.
My grandmother, Alice, was married and widowed 3 times, poor woman, but although I thought this would complicate tracing her back, she has been remarkably easy!
The death of Mary Currie that you identified opens an avenue I had not thought of. Many thanks. Much to think about! Looking forward to the 1911census. Do you know when it will be available online?
Regards and thanks again, Mary
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Poor Robert, reasons for his death sound awful :-\
The Scottish 1911 census is due to be released on 5 April, not too long now!
Monica
PS: Well done for finding McAdam Lane on the map - I was trying to find a couple myself the other day and needed lots of help from other RootsChat members!
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Thanks to all, my great grandmother was born in 8 MacAdams Lane in Milton, Glasgow.
Using information from a few sources, MacAdam's / McAdam's Lane is now called Manresa Place. This is nearer the city centre than where Milton is now (when you search for 'Milton Glasgow' on Google).
I've attached an Ordnance Survey map from 1892 that shows exactly where McAdams Lane was located. It's in the middle-left of the image.
My sources:
- http://www.woodsideonline.org.uk/heritage/education/st-josephs/
- http://urbanglasgow.co.uk/archive/st-joseph-s-north-woodside__o_t__t_1529.html
- http://geo.nls.uk/maps/towns/glasgow1894/openlayers.html
copyright image removed by moderator
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Hi scatterjames, my grandmother was also born at 8 Macadams Lane, Milton, Glasgow in 1898.
Your great-grandmother would not happen to be Henrietta ?? Look forward to your reply. Ian
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My 4th Great Grandfather James Adams lived at on McAdams Lane
Civil parish is Glasgow St George in the Fields
County: Lanarkshire
Address: McAdams Lane
Parish Number: 644/1
I don't really know how to look that up, I'm from the United States. Can anyone help me find it?
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I don't really know how to look that up, I'm from the United States. Can anyone help me find it?
What exactly do you want to look up?
scatterjames posted a link above to a map showing where it is under a new name.
Where did you get that snippet of information and what year does it refer to?
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I got the Information from Ancestry.
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Hi scatterjames, my grandmother was also born at 8 Macadams Lane, Milton, Glasgow in 1898.
Your great-grandmother would not happen to be Henrietta ?? Look forward to your reply. Ian
Hi Ian. My great grandmother was Mary Jane Mullany and she was born there in 1880. I'm guessing she might have moved on from that address by 1898.
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I got the Information from Ancestry.
Oh dear, oh dear.
See https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714261.0
Each historic ecclesiastical parish in Scotland has been given a number by the archivists, and 644 is assigned to Glasgow. It has numerous subdivisions, of which 644/1 is one. However the subdivision boundaries were not always the same over time.
Really, without an idea of the date of that listing (I won't use the word 'record' because it is only an index entry) it's impossible to point you at the right original record.
Presumably you must have come across it while looking for a person?
I suggest that you search the records at www.scotlandspeople for the person you are interested in, and in the meantime forget about Ancestry.
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I attached a picture of the two people's addresses I'm looking for.
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Here's the Picture of David Adam(s) wife and children. I don't have a picture of James Adam(s) his father. David is my 3rd Great Grandfather and James is my 4th Great Grandfather.
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For 1841 there are much better transcriptions at FreeCEN https://www.freecen.org.uk/, and on that site you can scroll back and forwards to see the neighbours.
The Dundee one is transcribed as Hean's Lane on both FreeCEN and FindMyPast and almost every address in the entire enumeration district (ED) is in or off Small's Wynd. It's on this map https://maps.nls.uk/view/74478928 - a very long, straight, narrow street, almost in the middle of the map section. Small's Lane and Hean's Lane are side streets off Small's Wynd.
The Glasgow one is the very first entry in its enumeration district, and all the addresses in that ED are in M(a)cAdam's Lane. It's between Garscube Road and Woodside Road - look for it just above the letter Y at the end of the word CITY on this map https://maps.nls.uk/view/74953123
You should look at the original documents at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk - it's pay-per-view but modestly priced. You can also save them to attach to your tree.
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Awesome, Thank you so much. Would you happen to be related to David and James?
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Not related as far as I know.
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ok
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Good Morning Monica,
Thank you so much for those last two messages.
First of all, thanks to your guidance, I have found where Macadam's Lane was. Exactly where you said. It no longer exists, of course, but it does appear on a 1892 map. Don't ask me to explain how I found that because I cannot tell you as I followed so many links to get there.
Robert Mundell's death cert. of 1915 is not too helpful, as he died of pneumonia, emphysema, and pulmonary embolism, in Weymouth. He was a Sergeant in B company 14th Royal Scotts Regiment. So I assume this is a war death. I don't know how to obtain more details of whether this was a normal illness or a trench related condition.
His marriage cert. states his employment as marine stoker at that time, so he may have been at sea for earlier census's.
My grandmother, Alice, was married and widowed 3 times, poor woman, but although I thought this would complicate tracing her back, she has been remarkably easy!
The death of Mary Currie that you identified opens an avenue I had not thought of. Many thanks. Much to think about! Looking forward to the 1911census. Do you know when it will be available online?
Regards and thanks again, Mary
You should try The Great War Forum. You can register free and then ask questions on Robert as you seem to have good information about him.
https://www.greatwarforum.org/
Good luck
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Robert Mundell's death cert. of 1915 is not too helpful, as he died of pneumonia, emphysema, and pulmonary embolism, in Weymouth. He was a Sergeant in B company 14th Royal Scotts Regiment. So I assume this is a war death. I don't know how to obtain more details of whether this was a normal illness or a trench related condition.
Surprisingly, there is no mention of him at https://www.cwgc.org/ - as he was obviously a serviceman when he died I'd have expected his death to be there even if it was not directly war-related.
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Replying on thread to an off-line message from Steph, for the avoidance of duplication of effort.
I was looking for birth records and anything else I can find on David and James.
As for birth records, the best you will get are baptism records, because civil registration didn't start until 1855.
You have David in 1841 aged 20, in a household whose head is Catherine, who I assume is his mother. Adults' ages in the 1841 census were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 years, so he could have been any age from 20 to 24 and therefore born any time between 1816 and 1821. He wasn't born in Angus. However the two youngest children were: James, 13 and John, 8.
In the church records section of Scotland's People (SP) there are baptisms of James Adam, parents David Adam and Catherine Scoone, on 18 November 1827 and John, parents David Adam and Catherine Scone, on 23 September 1832, both in Dundee, who exactly match the census. There is also a Mary Simmers Adam, baptised 10 May 1830, who presumably died young.
There's a marriage of David Adam to Katherine Skene in Alyth, Perthshire, on 10 December 1815, and baptism of James to David Adam and Catharine Skeen in Dundee on 24 July 1825.
There are burials in the Howff Burial Ground in Dundee of
- John Adam on 23 April 1847, son of David Adam, weaver, Smalls Wynd
- Isabella Adam, 91, born Kinnoull, on 12 April 1850, widow of Adam Caird, Shipmaster, Smalls Lane, Smalls Wynd
- James Adam, aged 4 months, on 26 January 1853, son of James Adam, blacksmith, Smalls Wynd - I do not know if this James is related or not.
However I don't see a burial of either David Adam or of Catherine Scone/Skene or Adam. Check for yourself at http://www.fdca.org.uk/pdf%20files/HowffA01.pdf just in case I missed them.
From the statutory records of deaths on SP, James Adam, mother's maiden name Scone, died in Dundee in 1863 aged 36. Isabella Adam, other surname David, mmn Skene, died in Dundee in 1895 aged 76. Catherine Skene or Adam, 73, died in Dundee in 1860.
In the 1851 census in Dundee are Catherine Adams, aged 64, born Dundee and her son James, 22, also born in Dundee.
Isabell Adam married Peter David in Dundee on 1 September 1841. In the 1871 census Peter David, mason and his wife Isabella, 52, born Auchterarder, Perthshire, are in Dundee with four of their children.
All this is from transcriptions and indexes. The original documents, and more, can be viewed and downloaded at SP - select Search our records > Advanced People Search and then the type of record you want to see.
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Which David Adam was your 3rd great-grandfather - was it the one married to Catherine Scone/Skene, or was it their son?
In 1851 David Adam, born Auchterarder, Perthshire, flaxdresser, is in Dundee with wife Elizabeth Whamond or Adam, son George and daughter Catherine. They're still there in 1861, listed as Adams, with three more children. I don't see them in 1871 or 1881. Are they yours? Did they emigrate in the 1860s?
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He married Margaret Douglas. He was born in 1818 in Roxburghshire and died in 1854 in Chester, IL United States. His parents are James Adam(s) 1780-1851 and Catherine Carlew.
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David, his parents and siblings immigrated to the United States and arrived in 1836 and were on the ship named Czar.
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David, his parents and siblings immigrated to the United States and arrived in 1836 and were on the ship named Czar.
He married Margaret Douglas. He was born in 1818 in Roxburghshire and died in 1854 in Chester, IL United States. His parents are James Adam(s) 1780-1851 and Catherine Carlew.
In that case he cannot be the one in Dundee whose parents were David Adam and Catherine Scone/Skene, whose wife was Elizabeth Whamond, and who was still in Dundee in 1841, 1851 and 1861.
And James Adam in Macadam's Lane in Glasgow in 1841 cannot be his father if his father had emigrated five years earlier, in 1836.
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Name James Adam
Age 60
Estimated Birth Year abt 1781
Gender Male
Where born Lanarkshire, Scotland
Civil parish Glasgow St George in the Fields
County Lanarkshire
Address Mcadams Lane
Occupation Blacksmith J
Parish Number 644/1
I think it's saying that was just where he was born
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Could you help me lookup where my David Adam(s) and James Adam(s) lived?
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Could you help me lookup where my David Adam(s) and James Adam(s) lived?
We could have if they had not emigrated in 1836. The earliest census that records individuals' names and personal details was in 1841, which is five years after that.
Or we could, if the record of your David's baptism had survived. There are three surviving records of baptisms to James Adam* and Carl*. There are also two records of the marriage of James Adam and C/Katherine Carl*, one in Neilston and one in Glasgow, which means that at the time of their marriage one of them living in Glasgow and the other in Neilston, Renfrewshire. See attached screenshots from SP.
Name James Adam
Age 60
Estimated Birth Year abt 1781
Gender Male
Where born Lanarkshire, Scotland
Civil parish Glasgow St George in the Fields
County Lanarkshire
Address Mcadams Lane
Occupation Blacksmith J
Parish Number 644/1
I think it's saying that was just where he was born
It's saying that he was living in Macadams Lane on 7 June 1841. Obviously, if your James Adam emigrated five years before that, in 1836, this cannot be him.