RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: mentmore on Wednesday 06 January 10 22:34 GMT (UK)
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Having seen the programme Heir Hunters on TV.
Can anyone see the list which is made available of people dying without making a Will?
If so where please.
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http://www.bonavacantia.gov.uk
The list comes out every week.
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And there isn't 3000 on there so would be nice to see the list that exists elsewhere. This weeks and I think the first of the new year is release in just over an hour
Rob
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Hi Nick and Rob
Thanks very much for the site, I shall have a great time looking for any distant relatives that may have left me a fortune.
Carol
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And there isn't 3000 on there so would be nice to see the list that exists elsewhere. This weeks and I think the first of the new year is release in just over an hour
Rob
I think the Heir Hunters companies themselves maintain their own lists from the Bonavacantia lists. If you think you have a relative that may have died intestate, then you can do a search at the Probate Registry to find out who acted as administrator of the estate (if there was one).
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Nick,
If there is no will and the death is intestate there will be no probate.
I have never come across heir hunting companies maintaining their own lists because these lisst are only released to everyone at midnight Thursdays. What the bigger companies have are the GRO indexes census etc so that they dont have to rely on sites like Ancestry. I am sure Fraser and Fraser will correct me if I am wrong. I also believe they have a complete electorol roll as well because to be able to guess at the value of an estate so quickly would suggest they do.
Rob
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Even when there is no will, the estate still has to be administered, and the person taking on that task has to apply to the Probate Registry for "Letters of Administration". I know this because my half-brother died intestate, and it was a cousin who undertook that (assisted by an heir hunter company), because neither of his half-siblings were aware of his death.
The Bonavacantia List only lists new cases, and Heir Hunter companies keep their own records so that they can keep track, because there's no point in trying to open up a case that has already been solved by another company. Again, I know this happens, because Neil Fraser was able to tell me (from memory !) which company had dealt with my half-brother's case, even though it was 6 years previous (it wasn't F & F, incidentally). Neil has an amazing memory, which I suppose is a necessity of the job.
P.S. F & F have a huge range of records, but they also have something even more precious - experienced people out there in the streets, asking questions, because people can often tell you things that dusty old records can't :)
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Nick, I have to beg to differ about Neil Fraser's memory. He always forgets when it's his round!
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Lar,
Thats a male problem not just Neils.
Nick yes when you apply for letters of administration probate occurs but I was talking about the items on the bonavacantia list which has yet have not passed to that stage.
As Bona only lists new cases then there is no chance of a case thats been succesfully completed being on that list today is there :) Yes F&F keep a complete file of all the cases they have completed and we have all seen how useful that can be. I keep a record of all cases I carry out for clients also and occasionally I refer to them again to see if anything new as come up. I dont believe in closing a case permanently.
I do agree about getting out on the road and asking questions and yes the answers can sometimes tell more than records but again those memories can be very tainted so can't always be taken at face value.
Rob
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[snip]
The Bonavacantia List only lists new cases
A link to the left hand side of the page on the Bonavacatia website gives you a pdf with cases from the mid 1990's
Cheers
Sandra
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I've always been curious as what Fraser's percentage is? Anyone know?
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It varies with the value of the estate.
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I have heard rumours that it varies between 25% and 40% but I wouldnt want to swear to that. Whatever the figure is that is for them to know and us to never find out.
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well if we don't ask ;)
crikey that sounds like a lot but i suppose if it weren't for them the heir would never ever know!
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well if we don't ask ;)
crikey that sounds like a lot but i suppose if it weren't for them the heir would never ever know!
Very true but on some of the cases I wouldnt be surprised if they actually made a loss. Remember if only one heir signs up and is only to receive £2000 then at 25% they would only get £500 and that won't cover the expenses they will have occurred.
I guess if we are asking questions I would love to know the time frame involved from submitting the claim to the treasury solicitor and the cheque being issued.
Rob
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Very true but on some of the cases I wouldnt be surprised if they actually made a loss. Remember if only one heir signs up and is only to receive £2000 then at 25% they would only get £500 and that won't cover the expenses they will have occurred.
I guess if we are asking questions I would love to know the time frame involved from submitting the claim to the treasury solicitor and the cheque being issued.
Rob
I'd be quite certain that they sustain a loss on many cases. Just work out how much it costs to pay an office staff of 50, several mobile researchers, and the cost of running a London office, plus (of course) the £100,000 a year they spend on certificates.
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Nick,
That is why they only go for the cases that have possible 6 figure payouts.
Rob
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If anyone remembers the 1st series the BonaVacantia list used to show the value of the estate of the deceased, but that had stopped by the time the 2nd series was aired, probably too many people trying to do probate research (a loss of revenue to the Govt.)
Great programme, wouldn't we all love a few hours in their library to trawl through all the directories etc. that they have.
I notice that they use FreeBMD a lot, and ancestry/findmypast for census, so although they do have a lot of records to hand most look like they are on microfische (not too sure about the spelling!) so it is probably quicker for them to use these sites.
I have a cousin who when off sick was wathing the programme & found the person they were looking for & ALL their relatives far quicker than they did, and more relatives than shown on the programme. They do try to make it look very hard.
I am always shocked that social services do not seem to try very hard to find relatives, most people (old folk especially) have address books lying around & old letters etc., so it cannot be that hard in many cases. I think it is very sad in these instances as often that person in put in a paupers grave with no marker to save money, disgusting to say the least.
Oooh I do feel better after that little rant :D
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Plummie,
The removal of the values of estate was to stop the possibilty of money laundering. That was made clear on series two.
Yes I noticed today that they were using FindMyPast for the 1911 census and I do wonder if they realise they are breaching the Terms of Use by using that census.
From the 1911 census terms and conditions "10.2 You acknowledge and agree that the Resources are made available for your personal, non-commercial use only and that you may only download material and content from the Resources on one computer hard drive for such purpose. Any other use of the Resources is strictly prohibited."
I nearly died when I saw them on todays program publicising this.
Upon death social services have no juridstinction and therefore have no right to locate blood of the deceased. The law requires a solicitor to publish the death in the paper local to the last known address of the deceased asking for anyone with a rightful claim to do so by a given date. If no one does then it is passed to the treasury. It is also at this stage that HH comonises may be involved.
Techincal point, there are no such things as paupers graves. They are known as public graves
Rob
Rob
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Thanks for that about the graves could not for the life of me think of Public graves, a very senior moment, but it is getting late. I think I will go bye byes now.
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1911 census, we are not allowed to use the findmypast subscription service and have a commercial licence with them we have to pay full price for every one we look at more than £3 each I think.
I have talked about fees before on this forum http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,314836.msg2618375.html#msg2618375 and again http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,420175.15.html so please read them.
There are a lot of cases that we work and do not make money on.
The values were removed because of this case http://cms.met.police.uk/news/convictions/two_found_guilty_of_inheritance_fraud the Met then told BV that they could put the values back, F&F advised that there was no need because legit firms could work out the value. Sorry we have not talked about this case before but we just couldn't compromise the criminal case, one of these cases is featured in the new series that starts on Monday.
F&F probably have the most data recorded we keep our own lists going back to the 1960's.
Ian, if I remember right it is your round next time we meet, I am sure I remember you telling me.
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You may not believe me as HH4 starts on Monday the film crew have just come in for some last minuet pick-ups.
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Oh I believe that all too well. Had a phone call from WDYTYA 4 days before a program aired to check one item that was in Jeremy Clarksons program which was then never mentioned :)
I agree that the values can be worked out with a little time and I don't need the values should I decide to follow one through but it would be nice as then we could leave those cases companies like yours and Anglia would chase.
But my question regarding time scales from sending all the details to the treasury and receiving a payment is still outstanding
Rob
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Are you a probate researcher?
why have you mentioned Anglia?
For us it takes 12-18 months from when we first contact an heir. It can be quicker but there are legal time periods that slow the process please see our web page. http://www.fraserandfraser.com/uk/timeline/timeline.html
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Neil,
No I am not an heir hunter per se but I do the occasional job for people looking into deceased estates. I am a pro genealogist. I mentioned Anglia because I know of them myself along with a number of others.
Re reading my post the para with You and Anglia mentioned together should have read "Leaving those of higher values to companies such as yours and Anglia.
I did look into doing the same as yourselves but being a sole trader and not having huge savings the time required to wait for the TS to act upon a case would see me bankrupt very quickly.
Rob
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You may not believe me as HH4 starts on Monday the film crew have just come in for some last minuet pick-ups.
Don't worry, Neil, we'll all be watching for continuity errors ;D
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What I wonder about these estates is its easy enough to divide up all the things of monetary value but what happens to the things of no money value? I am thinking of things like photographs and letters, bit hard dividing them amongst several competing heirs
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Good question..... maybe a subject for a future HH programme ?
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there is very rarely much left by the time we get the case.
however we try to copy all photos and send them to any heir who wants them.
it is very rare to fine family heir looms, when we do it is up to the family who receives them.
The quicker we get given a case and the fewer people involved then the more chance that there is something to give to the family.
If there is a disagreement between the family then the administrator is advised to place the items in auction and inform all the family.
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Thanks for the replies.
I like the idea of the photographs being copied so each of the heirs can have a copy.
Truth be told if a heir hunter was came knocking on my door (which they won't) I wouldn't be interested in any financial gain but I would like some photos of my ancestors
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As I said the sooner we get involved the better in most cases.
We have worked cases given to us by neighbours that we have solved and the heirs have been able to attend the funeral. It is the best for every one.
Just last year we worked a case that started at over 1.3 mill at the time of death, £300k in property and £1mill in Shares mainly RBS. Because IHT (40%) has to be paid at the value at time of death there was a bill for about £400k to the Gov, it took 2 years for the case to land on our desks and 5 days to have a claim accepted by the TS after that. In this time the share value had reduced to less than £100k by then it was too late to use a dead of variation hence the estate ended up being small. The shares really were a toxic asset worth negative £300k.
So the quicker we can get a case the better
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I was watching episode one of HH4 today on iPlayer and I noticed that the West Midlands based agent was sitting in a register office with a monitor behind him that had a England and Wales BMD search facility on it. You can search the BMD index for a certificate.
I was wondering what database that was?
Is it the one that ran out of money?
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All local offices have indexes that are searchable for a fee even though as Guy will tell you it should be free to search
Rob
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Thanks Rob
I thought that they had not actually completed this task because they ran out of funding.
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/FAQ.html#2
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I love heir hunters as I have said before but noticed this morning that they've made the three Fraser's stand in a courtyard while the camera pans around them.
Neil, you look so uncomfortable with that!! Poor you :)
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Yes didn't really want to do that
not a good shot is it
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You looked like mobsters ;D
Really good show today, thanks goodness for the iplayer as my recording failed.
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Another interesting one today! Nice to see the interior of the Dublin Reg. Office!
Kooky
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Another interesting one today! Nice to see the interior of the Dublin Reg. Office!
Kooky
Except that it was, of course, the research room in the Irish Life Centre, where I had thought that they should be heading ;D
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Oh! How do you know that?
Kooky
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Spent a morning there on my trip to Dublin last year. Was excellent as it gave me an idea of how best to search the indexes (just) before they went on line. As many Irish names have multiple alternative spellings, I would still recommend it for anyone who can get there that is having difficulty finding family as seeing the alphabetic lists can be easier to find names that have been misspelled.
I guess it's rather quieter now that most people can do a lot of their searches on-line for free, although 2 euros for a five-year set of one type of index (B, M or D) really isn't expensive.
Sadly, I've been busy this morning so only saw bits of the programme and I've several questions, which may of course be answered if I can find time to watch again on I-player later.
First, the research room only issues copies, as far as I know, and so you would need to nip across to the Registry Office for certified copies (more expensive). Did F&F need to get certified copies for legal purposes or are the photocopies sufficient?
Also the Research Room will only produce 5 copies on-site in one day for any researcher. Was that enough or did F&F have to wait for more to be mailed out, or was this dealt with by getting the certified copies instead?
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Watched this morning.
Amazed to see a copy of a death cert -"We were able to get it online"!
Was there a time lapse of a day or two?
It seemed to be instant.
Can someone explain?
Oh twere that easy!
Kooky
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Hey, I've seen Neil's hair getting longer and then shorter again between takes. Anything is possible ;)
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As the cameras are around I do wonder if some offices like to appear more able to produce certificates "instantly";
also companies like F & F & Hoopers probably have very good working relationships with some registrars offices & as they often pay over the phone direct, the registrars are probably more inclined to email or fax copies over, so they have an instant copy & a hard copy sent via post.
For legal purposes you usually cannot use a photocopy of any certificate.
Irish records from Dublin are great, and the folks there are so helpful when you phone, visits not always an option.
Ordered some certs via post, filled out 5 forms, got back 4 records & a handwritten note advising me that they could not find the other & to contact local church, number supplied. Great service.
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For legal purposes you usually cannot use a photocopy of any certificate.
You can only get a certified copy of a certificate from a registry office, which is why they will never supply a certificate by email or fax, because it's not possible to certify something sent this way. Anyone can order a certificate by phone, but the fastest delivery method you'll ever be offered in the UK is via secure courier, and that's generally not fast enough for heir hunters who are in competition with each other.
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Watched this morning.
Amazed to see a copy of a death cert -"We were able to get it online"!
Was there a time lapse of a day or two?
It seemed to be instant.
Can someone explain?
Oh twere that easy!
Kooky
I noticed this too - it was for two recent (since 206) deaths. I wonder if FF have access to more recent certificates on line for what I imagine would be a HUGE subscription? Can you explain please Neil?
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Lots of people on Ancestry have copies of certificates online, and F & F have a special subscription to Ancestry (see an earlier post by Neil), so it's possible they got a copy there. You can't get certificates in the UK online from the GRO or any Register Office, because it's not legal.
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Lots of people on Ancestry have copies of certificates online, and F & F have a special subscription to Ancestry (see an earlier post by Neil), so it's possible they got a copy there. You can't get certificates in the UK online from the GRO or any Register Office, because it's not legal.
Sorry but I think that is misleading.
True you can order certificates online from Ancestry, but they then have to get them from the GRO and they are certified copies and take about a fortnight to arrive - and are VERY expensive
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I think what Nick29 is getting at is that people attach scans of certificates in their possession to their family trees on Ancestry.
You can of course order certificates from the GRO directly online, there has been talk of digitising certificates and making an image available when you place an order, but you have to have the certified hard-copy as well.
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I think what Nick29 is getting at is that people attach scans of certificates in their possession to their family trees on Ancestry.
Opps, hadn't thought of that!
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I think what Nick29 is getting at is that people attach scans of certificates in their possession to their family trees on Ancestry.
You can of course order certificates from the GRO directly online, there has been talk of digitising certificates and making an image available when you place an order, but you have to have the certified hard-copy as well.
Yes, that's what I meant. Sorry if I didn't make it clear. Neil F. said that Fraser & Fraser pay a fortune to Ancestry for a subscription, because the fees that you and I would pay are for private use only, and not for business use.
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As I said the sooner we get involved the better in most cases.
We have worked cases given to us by neighbours that we have solved and the heirs have been able to attend the funeral. It is the best for every one.
Just last year we worked a case that started at over 1.3 mill at the time of death, £300k in property and £1mill in Shares mainly RBS. Because IHT (40%) has to be paid at the value at time of death there was a bill for about £400k to the Gov, it took 2 years for the case to land on our desks and 5 days to have a claim accepted by the TS after that. In this time the share value had reduced to less than £100k by then it was too late to use a dead of variation hence the estate ended up being small. The shares really were a toxic asset worth negative £300k.
So the quicker we can get a case the better
So why do some cases take longer than others to get onto to the BV list ?
How much dies the TS investigate before putting it on the list.
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Talking about the search room in the Irish Life building, the person wandering around carrying books is me and my company is Celtic Research. We've contributed 7 stories to the show; 4 shown and 3 more to come.
Not only does Neil F buy drinks for people, including competitors, he has also been known to buy lunch!
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Welcome to Rootschat! ;D
I was watching the other day trying to read the spines on your books :-[ cos they looked like Terry Pratchetts ;D
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Thanks for the welcome. Yes a complete run of Terry Pratchett plus all of the Nero Wolfe mysteries and a thousand or so others.
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Nice pun from Neil this morning......
"I'm looking at the Ivy stem"
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Nice pun from Neil this morning......
"I'm looking at the Ivy stem"
And he didn't even smile ;D
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Loved it when he said all his children will be called Neil
All girls will be Neila or Neilla?
Very George Foreman
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Whose your most famous rellie
« Reply #7 on: Today at 10:42:37 »
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Estate administration: what can go wrong.
My company, Celtic Research has had some problems recently with estates that have either been administered by family members or by so-called "heir hunters" who haven't been in the business long enough to know what they are doing.
One case where an heir on one side of the family got the admin although we had signed the majorit of the heirs on the other side was where that heir decided that you took the sum total of heirs and divided the money equally between each one! And the first thing I knew about it was when the heirs got paid and we got our fee.
I've also got someone who claims to be an heir hunter and submitted a claim to our administrator on the basis of "this is a list of heirs; please give them the money and send me my fee." No family tree, (I eventually got one apparently scrawled on a roll of wallpaper) no certificates and copies of his agreements which committed him to nothing except getting his fee! The estate's worth about £5,000 and there are over 60 heirs so some of them will spend more money proving their claim than they will receive.
Heaven protect us from people who got into the business after series 1 thinking they would make a fortune in three weeks.
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I think it is a shame that the programme does make some of the work look very easy. I wish I could find all my "lost" ancestors that easily.
We all know that genealogy and just researching your own family is fraught with mistakes, so researching a family not your own (and money is a stake) must be even worse. Esepcially with common surnames.
Probate research is not a job I would really want to do.
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I think they may have been listening - on yesterday's programme Fraser & Fraser failed to find an heir on one featured estate, with an estimated worth of over £100,000. After a lot of work, too.
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I didn't see that show but finding a case dead is one of those things. I just had to close a million-dollare estate because all the family were dead.
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I think I've missed something somewhere. How does someone get onto the Bona Vacantia list?
ie. Person dies with no known relatives, whose responsibility is it to notify the Treasury?
In this morning's episode, the house had been empty for some time and was falling into greater disrepair by the day, but it appeared that nothing happened until a neighbour contacted Fraser & Fraser (or was that just poetic licence?)
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If you want to get on the BV list, first thing is to die. After that, you can leave the rest to your friendly neighbourhood social services.
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All local offices have indexes that are searchable for a fee even though as Guy will tell you it should be free to search
Rob
No all registers in the keeping of the local registrar are free to search.
There is a difference
Cheers
Guy
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If you want to get on the BV list, first thing is to die. After that, you can leave the rest to your friendly neighbourhood social services.
So ... 2 things I'd prefer to avoid. Better get round to making a will then.
Thanks Peter.
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Getting onto the BV list is not that hard. Move miles from your family, tell your neighbours nothing, then die leaving no clues as to where you are from. The law then requires a proate solicitor to advertise for heirs to come forward in the paper (usually one local to your death) after set period of time no one comes forward, so solicitor pays any creditors and himself then turns the rest over to the treasury who then put it on BV.
Social Services have no part in it. With no family the estate would pay for the burial if enough money exists. Someone will correct me but I believe all those listed on BV are estates over £5000
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I have a question for Peter Birchwood. What programme do you use to print out the 'basic' trees you use.
It would suit my style ideally, I only want to print out a very basic tree as a back-up to the data I have in files. And the style would be OK for me to send copies of our tree to my 2 elderly cousins.
Look forward to hearing from you. I am sure I am not the only person who would like this system you & the others on the programme use.
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genresearch:
I can understand that solicitors or someone need to make enquiries about heirs, but what I was really thinking (which perhaps isn't clear) is how do they know that there is a person who has died, whose affairs need sorting out? Who is responsible for notifying them? And I suppose that is where Social Services come in.
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Sorry "genresearch"
not quite right, what Peter said is correct most cases are passed by the Social Services; Probate solicitors have no grounds to charge the estate so very few would want to put adverts out the certainly wouldn't pay creditors with out authority and until an heir is found no one has authority.
The house really did sit empty until we were told about it, really several years, with no one even looking for the heirs. If you know of any house like that we would be happy to have a look at it.
Neil
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Touting for customers tch tch!!!!
Glad to see in todays programme (Mon 8/02) that those 2 despicable men got what they deserve. Modern day grave robbers.
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Nationwide there are 10's of 1000's of derelict properties,I know some Councils do make an effort to trace the owners but I wonder if anyone has tried to match the owners with the BV list.Maybe Councils should post lists of known but untraced owners.
I think Andrew Fraser had every right to look pleased with himself after today's prog.
jim
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Neil,
I stand corrected and was repeating information given to me a number of years ago. I do though see numerous of adverts in my local paper asking for anyone with a claim against an estate to get in contact etc. I don't understand though why social services would become involved after a death. Again from experience of an ancetstor dying intestate it was the local council who dealt with the burial.
Once again many thanks for the correction
Rob
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Solicitors have to put an advert in the local paper for claimants even if there is a will. When my mum died last year and my gran in 1988 both of their names went into our local rag.
Carol
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That's because there could be a more recent will out there. Yesterday's show about the fraud surrounding a will which provoked a change in the way that the Bona Vacantia list was issued was extremely interesting.
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and also because, if they didn't pay all their bills before their demise, I think the outstanding payments have first claim before what's left is shared under the will.
Or can someone correct me there?
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Rob, you are more than welcome.
Most the the notices you see in the local paper section 27 notices
Under s27 of the Trustee Act 1925, called "statutory notices". notices are put in the London Gazette and in a local paper covering any area in which the deceased owned property.
Creditors have to be given time (usually 2 months) to make any claims against the estate. If the notices had not been made, and the executor distributed, he or she would be risking personal liability to any creditors who subsequently made a claim.
We monitor a lot of local papers looking for cases (this is where I do another tout Plummiegirl) if you see one pass it to me. for your info we do pay referral fees to anyone passing us a case.
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Neil
Go for it lad - you get nowhere in this life if you do not ask!!
Love the show, you & your colleagues are stars, love Grimble.
Cheers
Plummiegirl
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Neil,
Why is everyone in your office (apart from Fran) called David ;D
Carol
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Neil,
Why is everyone in your office (apart from Fran) called David ;D
Carol
:D loved this post asking NEIL why everyone was called David :P
know what you mean but i found it amusing :-X
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Neil
Go for it lad - you get nowhere in this life if you do not ask!!
Love the show, you & your colleagues are stars, love Grimble.
Cheers
Plummiegirl
I think the director of the HH programme is in love with the blonde Scottish girl with the broad accent - we have about a dozen clips of her per show :)
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I am sure Debbie would be flattered.
Fraser and Fraser is an equal opportunity employer, however in the interest of cost saving we stick to people with the same name to save money on stationary.
David Milchard
David Pacifico
David Slee
David Mansell
David Hadley
Frances "Davina" Brett
However Tony, Marcus, and Me put a spanner in that. At one time DP, DS and DM all sat in a row
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;D ;D ;D
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Don't forget Gareth!
Kooky
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I bet his middle name's David! ;D ;D
I'm going to have withdrawal symptoms when HH finishes :(
(ooh just noticed...nice avatar Neil.....why is it not a photo of you from the panning shot?? :P ;D ;D)
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I've attempted to put this in spoilers as it is about todays program
I probably need to rewatch on iplayer but -
1) How did they quickly know that the Edmonton Harold Smith was the correct one ?
2) Because they didn't know where in Poland father of John Wise was born, it seemed that side discounted and estate distributed to maternal side - was that correct ?
Thanks
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Fraser and Fraser is an equal opportunity employer, however in the interest of cost saving we stick to people with the same name to save money on stationary.
British Rail did this with 2 successive Bob Reid's as Board Chairman.
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What I wonder about these estates is its easy enough to divide up all the things of monetary value but what happens to the things of no money value? I am thinking of things like photographs and letters, bit hard dividing them amongst several competing heirs
That's a painful subject for me. I would have loved to have had my childless uncle's personal papers - I knew he intended to leave his estate to charity but they wouldn't want his apprenticeship induction, bmd docs, photos, etc. He was No.6 of eight children and he was the last to go. Most of my family left our home town years ago and I didn't know who to contact when my letters were returned unopened. I was quite sad when I came across his solicitors letter in the London Gazette about 8 years after his death. I didn't contact them as I thought all documents would have been destroyed by that time.
As he was from a long line of engineering families I used to wonder why on earth he would change careers to go farming in Wales back in 1950. His given names were Kenneth Mackenzie and late last year I actually found a 1780's baptism which showed a birth in a Scottish Highland barnyard. Looks like he'd gone back to his roots
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In today's programme (Thursday) there was an estate where they could trace the maternal relatives but not the paternal relatives as no one knew whereabouts in Poland they came from.
Can someone advise what happens in a case like this ie
1. Does all the estate go to the maternal relatives.
2. Does half the estate go to the maternal relatives and half remain with the Treasury Solicitor until the paternal heirs (if any ) are found.
3. Is all the money kept in trust until such time as it is proved whether or not there are paternal heirs.
Thank you
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I've attempted to put this in spoilers as it is about todays program
1 Via the death certificate which gives the date of birth.
2. Yes that is correct.
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In today's programme (Thursday) there was an estate where they could trace the maternal relatives but not the paternal relatives as no one knew whereabouts in Poland they came from.
Can someone advise what happens in a case like this ie
1. Does all the estate go to the maternal relatives.
2. Does half the estate go to the maternal relatives and half remain with the Treasury Solicitor until the paternal heirs (if any ) are found.
3. Is all the money kept in trust until such time as it is proved whether or not there are paternal heirs.
Thank you
Well, I'm usually wrong when I speculate, but in this instance there was no father's name on the birth certificate, so they would never be able to trace him. Since there is no likelihood that someone could stake a claim, because they could never prove it, I would say that 100% of the money would be paid to the maternal heirs.
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I've attempted to put this in spoilers as it is about todays program
1 Via the death certificate which gives the date of birth.
That would be the obvious answer.
Thanks for answering the question however it was not at all clear in the program that they already knew DOB as they were still working the Godstone Harold with a different birth year.
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...... but in this instance there was no father's name on the birth certificate,
Thank you Nick, I must have missed that part. That being the case makes my question rather redundant.
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...... but in this instance there was no father's name on the birth certificate,
Thank you Nick, I must have missed that part. That being the case makes my question rather redundant.
I've just rewatched the program and never saw the birth certificate. Maybe Fraser & Fraser can answer David's original question re split of estate (please).
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If there is no father's name on the certificate he is impossible to trace and so the entire estate will be distributed to maternal heirs.
In the case of countries like Poland were archives are parochial the research firm will go to every length to trace the family but may end up having to be indemnified.
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Hi Plummiegirl:
Thanks for the enquiry. I use Brother's Keeper 6 which can be downloaded as freeware but if you pay a few dollars you get some extra bits and pieces which are worth-while. It produces a basic family tree with everything that the professional might need and if you trade up to the paid version you get enough extras for your own tree: photos, documents etc.
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Hi Peter
Many thanks for that will have a look. Sorry for not getting back before, other half had surgery tues. & I am running around like a headless chicken at present. So getting on line is rather down the list of priorities at present.
Watched todays heir hunters must say Hector looked very smart in his suit!!
Cheers
Plummiegirl :)
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Fridays was the last one according to the Radio Times as there is something else on in the 9.15 slot next week. It was a good one to finish with, many finding someone who was due a second inheritance and all within 10 months.
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Yes Friday's episode was the last in the current series.
They do 15 per series. Not sure if only 1 per year, but if only 1, can we have 2?
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Are they not repeated on one or more of the digital channels?
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They're usually repeated on BBC 2 later in the day after a while too.
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Are they not repeated on one or more of the digital channels?
Yes on Yesterday (formerly UKTV History or something). Watch is also showing some episodes.
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Yes Friday's episode was the last in the current series.
They do 15 per series. Not sure if only 1 per year, but if only 1, can we have 2?
Hi, there were 20 episodes in the series - they take quite a while to make that man.
You can catch up with the last 13 episodes here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/heirhunters
There will be another series filmed later this year ;D - transmission time tbc however.
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Looking forward to the next series already. Fascinating stuff really and got me very interested.
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The Fraser & Fraser office looks quite cramped - having a camera crew under your feet probably doesn't make your jobs any easier, I would imagine.
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The Fraser & Fraser office looks quite cramped - having a camera crew under your feet probably doesn't make your jobs any easier, I would imagine.
Imagine a camera man accidentally knocking over a box of microfiche! I know from my own research that is something you DO NOT want to do...librarians/archivists tend to get a little miffed at that sort of thing.
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The Fraser & Fraser office looks quite cramped - having a camera crew under your feet probably doesn't make your jobs any easier, I would imagine.
Imagine a camera man accidentally knocking over a box of microfiche! I know from my own research that is something you DO NOT want to do...librarians/archivists tend to get a little miffed at that sort of thing.
Personally I always try and avoid contact with anything around me whilst filming! That often means being equipped with eyes in the back of one's head...
As for the size of the crew, I should imagine that it's possible to film it with a 1 or two person crew (either self shooting "DV director" or camera and director/producer/soundie). Desperately trying to stay out of everyone's way whilst trying to get the good shot!
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An example of how times have changed! I came across this in an 1892 Newspaper today :)
Heirs of Christopher Fisk - The address is urgently wanted of a gentleman from America who a few weeks ago was in Manchester seeking information concerning the heirs of one Christopher Fisk originally of Mutford Suffolk, who went abroad many years ago. If this should be seen by the gentleman, he is requested to communicate at once with Mr Philip G Fisk, 17 Arm Street, Lower Broughton.
I bet Philip Fisk would have been delighted to have been able to employ HHs :D
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Yes how things change, some one sent me a letter signed by my great aunt (on Alfred J Hooper & co, headed paper, yes she is listed first as the senior partner) from the 50's. Some paragraphs in our standard letters are still the same today.
As for film crew, generally we have 2 crews in the office at any one time (about 4 people) see the web page for a independent view about how we work on a day the crew are in http://www.fraserandfraser.com/WDYTYA%20day%20with%20Frasers.pdf . We dont use many fiche so dont have boxes of them, the fiche we do have are all in fiche cabinets, so we have never dropped a box!! only a hand full.
Our office is fairly full though, been here 10 years now would love to have more room but as the work gets easier and more on computer, and the fees less and less it is just not economical to move. We seem to have more and more competition last week we had 5 firms on a case I know was worth £ 12k we ended up dropping out when the fee went bellow 5%, so it is not the film crew we have to worry about just other firms.
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The F & F office is like a ballroom compared to mine. We had to borrow next doors cat to see if we could swing him and that wasn't appreciated. We have our case-officers dotted around the country and that works well for us.
Neil is correct; the problem is other companies one or two of whom are so desperate to sign heirs that they drive the fees down to 2%.
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Hi,
I wondered if some of the professional Heir Hunters here could answer a couple of questions for me.
A (distant) cousin has sent me a letter indicating that a solicior dealt with an intestacy relating to my family in the 1950s. It is evident that they had tried to trace all the descendants of my great-great-grandparents and presumably my father would have been one of the beneficiaries but, sadly, he is no longer here to ask.
The letter indiicates that they were still trying to trace a few of the beneficiaries at the point when they began distributing the money. Oddly, I could now give them some pointers into where they should have been looking.
The questions that I have are:
Is there any place/ court etc. where a complete list of beneficiaries would need to be lodged to complete the proceedings?
What should have happened to any moneys that could not be distributed because, although a beneficiary was known to exist, they were unable to locate them?
There does nor appear to have been a notice in the London Gazette, or at least, if there was, it did not include the name of the deceased.
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60 years is too long ago for anything do be done.
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I appreciate that - and don't think that the £3 or so per person would go far even at todays values.
What would be of great value to me is the complete list of beneficiaries that they identified, to check against all the relatives and connections that I think that I have found. It's the paperwork I'd like to find and the solicitors no longer have it!
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You should drop Neil Fraser at Fraser and Fraser an email. F & F are one of the oldest firms in the country, and may have something in their archives. Neil pops into these forums sporadically - I think he's probably busy at the moment, because they're filming a new series :)
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I have just noticed this thread.
I would be interested in which 1892 newspaper Ebch saw the notice asking for someone to contact Mr Philip G Fisk of 17 Arm Street Lower Broughton was.
The Mr Philip G Fisk was my gg grandfather , not sure which Christopher Fisk it relates to.
Many of the Fisk's went to the USA in the 1800's
Jane
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With regards to the amount of money Fraser make, I was wondering the same thing,it is often quoted in the programme that in the last ten years Fraser's have recovered £100,00000, at ten per cent I make that £10,000000 which sounds brilliant,but with wages,rent etc etc £2,000000p.a. it's a wonder they make any money.
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Sorry Lizanne - only just seen your post. It was in the Missing Friends column of the Manchester Times. :)
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A further notice in the Manchester Times two months later,August, says the inquirer is the grand daughter of the late Benjamin Fisk, land surveyor of Mutford.
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Sorry some of your numbers are not a 100% correct obviously we don't want to put our full accounts on the telly. What we say is that in the last 10 years we have HELPED in cases valued at over £100,000,000.00. now this seems a huge amount of money but it works out at £10,000,000.00 per year and we say helped so some of those cases we will have only looked for a single heir or even a single cert and been paid by the hour for that work, (we charge solicitors cost price for certs £7.50, £9 or £9.25 unless it is urgent then it is nearer £25; thought I would make sure people know that unlike some of the other firms we don't charge extras on the cost of certs; however we do charge for research and have a minimum fee, some times it is easier for us just to tell the solicitor how to apply for the cert direct so we get cut out) It would only take 1 big case to mess up out the numbers, even if I was to receive a couple hundred pound in fees.
F&F are a business and we do hope to turn a profit however we are not rolling in cash and don't give bonuses like bankers.
The series we are currently filming has a lot more on our fees and how we get paid
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DudleyWinchurch,
The questions that I have are:
Is there any place/ court etc. where a complete list of beneficiaries would need to be lodged to complete the proceedings? No, you dont have to file a list of heirs
What should have happened to any moneys that could not be distributed because, although a beneficiary was known to exist, they were unable to locate them?placed in a holding client account for 12 years then distributed to the known family if no one came forward to claim the money
There does nor appear to have been a notice in the London Gazette, or at least, if there was, it did not include the name of the deceased.it is usual practise to place notices these can be in several publications, local papers, national papers ect
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Sorry some of your numbers are not a 100% correct obviously we don't want to put our full accounts on the telly. What we say is that in the last 10 years we have HELPED in cases valued at over £100,000,000.00. now this seems a huge amount of money but it works out at £10,000,000.00 per year and we say helped so some of those cases we will have only looked for a single heir or even a single cert and been paid by the hour for that work, (we charge solicitors cost price for certs £7.50, £9 or £9.25 unless it is urgent then it is nearer £25; thought I would make sure people know that unlike some of the other firms we don't charge extras on the cost of certs; however we do charge for research and have a minimum fee, some times it is easier for us just to tell the solicitor how to apply for the cert direct so we get cut out) It would only take 1 big case to mess up out the numbers, even if I was to receive a couple hundred pound in fees.
F&F are a business and we do hope to turn a profit however we are not rolling in cash and don't give bonuses like bankers.
The series we are currently filming has a lot more on our fees and how we get paid
Thanks Neil, the numbers I had in mind was £2,000,000 p/a which still didn't seem a lot considering your overheads, but thanks for explaining. The programme is very enjoyable and you run a very professional outfit.You only need a dodgy week where people don't sign up or you are beaten to it by the opposition and you have earned nothing a very precarious business you are in, but I note in the programme you enjoy the chase.Cheers Pete
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Neil,
On a recent program I noted that one of the cases you were involved in was refused by the AG yet after new information came to light it was accepted. The program made out that your company submitted the claim in particular one person. I was led to believe that a solicitor acting for HH companies had to make the claim. Can you confirm this is the case please
Rob
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DudleyWinchurch,
The questions that I have are:
Is there any place/ court etc. where a complete list of beneficiaries would need to be lodged to complete the proceedings? No, you dont have to file a list of heirs
What should have happened to any moneys that could not be distributed because, although a beneficiary was known to exist, they were unable to locate them?placed in a holding client account for 12 years then distributed to the known family if no one came forward to claim the money
There does nor appear to have been a notice in the London Gazette, or at least, if there was, it did not include the name of the deceased.it is usual practise to place notices these can be in several publications, local papers, national papers ect
Sorry Neil,
didn't get a notification and missed this one. Thanks for the clear explanations. I don't think that I'm going to be able to use this further to confirm the family connections. However, the names that I already have from the letter concerning this matter do point to the family lines that I have mapped out at present and not to the absurd tree that I found elsewhere suggesting that the family flipped from one side of the Atlantic to the other in between each census leading to the one sister having parallel lives in two countries.
Sheila
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Looks like there's a new series starting next Monday 4th October at 9-15?
It's appeared on my series linked Sky planner already.
Maybe Neil can tell us if it is a new one or not please?
Thanks
Carol
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Carol - according to the listings in the online Radio Times they're starting with the last two of series three followed by series 4 - from memory Neil has mentioned series 5 as the one being filmed (I haven't checked....). IIRC Neil expected the next series to air in 2011.
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Thanks for that - never thought to look at an online RT ;D
I know mine isn't delivered till tomorrow ;)
Neil orginally said they hope to show the new series around Xmas.
Carol
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This is the first I have heard about it!!
it looks to me like the last 3 shows from HH3 then HH4 not sure how many or for how long, sorry
HH5 finished filming still looking like xmas/new year but you never know
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Hi Series 4 is currently repeating on BBC1 at 9:15am
The NEW series - 5 is being finished at the moment - it is due for transmission either towards the end of this year or beginning of next - there are some amazing stories coming up.....
Spies, Models, a PM and cows just to give you a taster
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Neil, how does it work with signing up heirs? For example what happens if you sign up one heir and your rivals sign a different heir? Or if there are 11 heirs you get 6 and your rivals get 5. Great programme but that doesn't seem to have been explained.
Thanks
Peter
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I think all the answers are in this topic
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,314836.msg2618375.html#msg2618375
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In an Heir Hunters programme recently, it considered payments from One Penny per Week insurance policies.
Is there a website where this sort of info. could be checked?
Kooky
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For anyone outside the UK there's just one full episode of the UK version of Heir Hunters on You Tube. You can view it here:-
http://www.youtube.com/user/Acramveh#p/c/3E3A97F231A19810/0/1Sms-qSTolg
C
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Hi
Regarding One Penny Insurances,i put into google uk
old one penny weekly insurance.
Several articles to read.
Omega
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Thank you Omega! I'll try that.
Kooky
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Your welcome Kooky
Husband remembers his Mum having one for him.
Omega :)
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Hi
Regarding One Penny Insurances,i put into google uk
old one penny weekly insurance.
Several articles to read.
Omega
When my mother died in 2003 she left a 1d insurance policy taken out on her by her parents c1910 when she was 7. The payment was about £600.
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When my father died in 2003, he had two policies taken out by his mum when he enlisted inthe army in 1939 (don't know why she did as he was already married, perhaps as her husband had died and left her with young children she was thinking of the future). Anyway, they were with two different companies, can't remember who though, but what I do know is that one company paid up over £1000, having added interest for the years the policy was valid, whereas the other skinflint company just paid the minimum possible about £14! Unfortunately, the skinflint company paid first, so I just thought that was the amount due and banked it. If the other company had paid out first, I would certainly have queried the small amount, but having accepted it there was nothing we could do.
Lizzie
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Whilst your situation is unfortunately true Lizzie, I think I should draw the attention of other Rootschatters to the presense of the Financial Services Ombudsman who might be able to help should another such case occur as it surely will.Perhaps a little adverse publicity by the publication of the name might help them see sense?
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I have just watched an heirhunters programme that I recorded in the last few weeks. I am still puzzled that Fraser and Fraser were able to obtain a very recent death cert on line - on the programme we were shown the cert that they had just printed off. I think it was for the surname Clim*on
Helen
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I have just watched an heirhunters programme that I recorded in the last few weeks. I am still puzzled that Fraser and Fraser were able to obtain a very recent death cert on line - on the programme we were shown the cert that they had just printed off. I think it was for the surname Clim*on
Helen
I think they used a fast track service and pay for it by online/phone and have it sent to them via fax, at least they did in one episode that I remember.
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News on the 5th series
Just heard we have been pushed back, people want "a place in the sun" when it is cold outside. So Heir hunters is set to start on 21/2/2010
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Thanks for letting us know Neil.
Can't wait ;D
Carol
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News on the 5th series
Just heard we have been pushed back, people want "a place in the sun" when it is cold outside. So Heir hunters is set to start on 21/2/2010
Not everyone :(
Thanks for the update Neil!
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I wouldn't mind being in the sun right now but would prefer to watch HH!! ;) ;)
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21 February is such a long wait...
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I just started looking for it in the TV guide - shan't bother for a while yet!
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Oh what a shame, I'd rather watch Heir Hunters. :D
Just realised Christmas smilies are back.
Lizzie
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Me too,
Can't wait to see you all again, especially you Neil
Can you tell Tony to smile more ;D ;D
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Something to look forward to, when Christmas is over :)
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:D
Also can't wait. Woke up snowed in again this morning and just popped the TV on and thought to myself I wish heir hunters was on, only to find this thread with the info.
Will the new series be in the mornings or a prime time slot?
Roll on february. :) :D ;D
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One of the HH series is on 'Blighty' at the moment :)
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Yes I love HH too, I got hooked whilst watching the last series. Thanks to Neil for giving us the date for the start of the new series - won't have to keep trawling the TV schedules to see when it's back on now ;)
The earlier comment from Maries 163 (I think) about Tony on the programme made me laugh - he did come across as a tad grumpy ;D. Makes for good viewing though, hehe.
Janet
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Heir Hunters can now be seen on The History Channel in UK, Australia and NZ
7pm every night in the UK
http://www.history.co.uk/shows/heir-hunters/about.html
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I am going to be in Yorkshire in July and I have my fingers crossed that I will be able to watch the show on reruns like the last time I was over there. I really like the show.
Cheers
Anne
PS. To bad the show is not shown in Canada
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PS. To bad the show is not shown in Canada
Is internet TV a possible option?
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Redroger:
Never thought of that. Will have to have a go and see if I can find it on the net.
Thanks
Anne
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News on the 5th series
Just heard we have been pushed back, people want "a place in the sun" when it is cold outside. So Heir hunters is set to start on 21/2/2010
Hope you mean 2011 Neil !!!!!! Really looking forward to new series.
Christine
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NEW SERIES - Starts Feb 21st 9:30am BBC1
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Excellent news, not to long to wait now, this has been a long time coming.
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We are looking forward to seeing it in Spain, Yes !!!!!
Elsa-Mary
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According to my schedule it starts at 9.15am
Rob
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I've always been curious as what Fraser's percentage is? Anyone know?
I watched an episode last night that I'd recorded (in Aust). The total estate was 182,000 and the descendant got 100,000. A fairly hefty whack (45%), but without them, he would have not known about it. In fact, for a while he thought it was a scam.
Alison
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I've got it on my ReminderFox (Firefox's calendar), so I'll be sure to watch it, or record it.
Lizzie
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I've always been curious as what Fraser's percentage is? Anyone know?
I watched an episode last night that I'd recorded (in Aust). The total estate was 182,000 and the descendant got 100,000. A fairly hefty whack (45%), but without them, he would have not known about it. In fact, for a while he thought it was a scam.
Alison
Yes, but don't forget that burial and other costs are usually taken from the estate before the inheritance is distributed.
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I've always been curious as what Fraser's percentage is? Anyone know?
I watched an episode last night that I'd recorded (in Aust). The total estate was 182,000 and the descendant got 100,000. A fairly hefty whack (45%), but without them, he would have not known about it. In fact, for a while he thought it was a scam.
Alison
I don't know what show you watched but I can be fairly certain that F&F would not have taken 45%!!
The 182k would have been an estimate, the estate would have been shared between several heirs (even if only one is shown on the program) there are several costs that are taken off the top before any share is distributed to the heir, it is only then that our fee is taken, i.e after all other costs.
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Nick,
Thought all debts were taken from the estate prior to it being placed with the treasury?
Rob
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No.
The TSol don't tell us the value until we have proved a claim and even then it is an guess! often miles out. We have had estates valued at several £ 100k and only paid out 100's of pounds. had one 2 years ago told worth over 1.5 mill real value 80k.
The TSol don't have authority to pay off any debts.
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Cheers Neil
Rob
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I've always been curious as what Fraser's percentage is? Anyone know?
I watched an episode last night that I'd recorded (in Aust). The total estate was 182,000 and the descendant got 100,000. A fairly hefty whack (45%), but without them, he would have not known about it. In fact, for a while he thought it was a scam.
Alison
I don't know what show you watched but I can be fairly certain that F&F would not have taken 45%!!
The 182k would have been an estimate, the estate would have been shared between several heirs (even if only one is shown on the program) there are several costs that are taken off the top before any share is distributed to the heir, it is only then that our fee is taken, i.e after all other costs.
Fair enough; only going on what was shown.
Alison
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Neil,
Correct me if I am wrong please. As I understand the TSol's site the first person to make an accepted claim would normally stop anyone else making a claim against the estate held by TSol. With that in mind how would an entitled heir make a claim if another entitled heir had been accepted. Would they then not have to contact the person who had been granted the letters of admon (assuming the estate was over the new threshold for this). Surely this would mean any entitled heir who had initially refused to sign a contract with yourselves or another HH company would end up having to deal with whomever you or another HH company had used to administrate the estate
Rob
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According to my schedule it starts at 9.15am
Rob
Next weeks Radio Times does indeed say that it's on at 9-15am ;D
Carol
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Set your TV recorders boys and girls ,the new series of Heir Hunters starts on BBC1 at 9-15am on Monday 21st Feb ;D
Carol
Moderator Comment: topics merged
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ohhh tg
something interesting for a change
xin
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Already got it set in my Sky+ planner :D
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Me too ;D
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ooh - thanks for that
Milly ;D
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I recorded the first episode and have just watched it in my lunch break.
Two interesting cases - one very sad though.
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Yes really interesting and so very sad.
Xin
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I recorded the first episode and have just watched it in my lunch break.
Two interesting cases - one very sad though.
I did exactly that too David- and have to agree how sad :'(
Carol
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A really good start to the new series with two very powerful and sad stories.
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What a real sad story to the start of the new series of Heir Hunters about the woman who was born in India.
I'm glad they decided not to try and find any other descendants.
Well done Fraser & Fraser
Marie
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Yes, the first one was a sad tale - in the circumstances I wondered where her estate came from - perhaps she'd inherited. I don't want to say more & spoil it for anyone who has recorded & not watched.
Today's pair were also interesting - if the series continues at this level it should be good.
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Thinking of the estate of the lady born in India from yesterdays programme.
There was no mention of the actual value, and considering that when she and her husband divorced she was not in a position to spend money (trying not to give too much away), and by the time she went into the nursing home she was deteriorating mentally so whatever she got in the divorce settlement was probably still sitting in a bank account somewhere.
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The case was never completed, and the value of an estate is not known until claims have gone in (except that it has to be over £5000 to be on the Bona Vacantia list).
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I may have missed the what was actually said because I was trying to work at the same time, but was one of the 'public puzzle' names at the end of today's prog Edward PLumtree?
If so I am amazed that there is no relatives to hand because looking at the 1881 and 1891 census, his father had 6 full blood siblings and 3 half siblings.
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I may have missed the what was actually said because I was trying to work at the same time, but was one of the 'public puzzle' names at the end of today's prog Edward PLumtree?
If so I am amazed that there is no relatives to hand because looking at the 1881 and 1891 census, his father had 6 full blood siblings and 3 half siblings.
How do you know who his father is ?
The Edward Plumtree on the list died 2004 aged 87 (approx 26 minutes into the programme if you want to check) ie born c1917
EDIT: OK I see its quite easy to find his parents, and father - quite a unique name
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Not watched the programmes yet. Was out last night - when I normally watch any daytime programmes I've Sky+ed and had almost 2 year old granddaughter here all day today, or else I might have watched the programmes this afternoon.
Looking forward to them.
Lizzie
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Hi
Do the heir hunters get their fee from the treasury before being distributed to beneficiaries or do the heirs pay the company?
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can any small company or genealogist apply for letters of administration?
Can an individual genealogist do this? and does it cost money
does the genealogist have to employ a solicitor?
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I believe that the heirs sign a contract agreeing the fees payable.
I'm also fairly sure that you have to have a claim on the estate to ask for letters of administration.
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2 interesting stories this morning. Very enjoyable.
Kooky
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Not watched the programmes yet. Was out last night - when I normally watch any daytime programmes I've Sky+ed and had almost 2 year old granddaughter here all day today, or else I might have watched the programmes this afternoon.
Looking forward to them.
Lizzie
They don't get any easier as they get older either Lizzie.
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I believe that the heirs sign a contract agreeing the fees payable.
I'm also fairly sure that you have to have a claim on the estate to ask for letters of administration.
so does the heir hunter have to apply for letters of administration and pay all the deceased debts etc as this seems a lot to do
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I believe that the heirs sign a contract agreeing the fees payable.
I'm also fairly sure that you have to have a claim on the estate to ask for letters of administration.
so does the heir hunter have to apply for letters of administration and pay all the deceased debts etc as this seems a lot to do
The debts will already have been paid from the estate. As far as I'm aware, the heir hunting companies help the claimants fill in the claim forms, and the claimants sign a contract agreeing to pay a percentage of the claim to the heir hunters. The percentage can vary according to how many man hours have been spent on the case, the number of heirs, and the size of the estate. I have to be careful here, because Neil from F & F occasionally appears here and shoots me down in flames when I get it wrong (in the nicest possible way, of course!) :)
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It is advised that anyone making a claim against the BV list employs their own solicitor to act as administrator because the treasury can if they see fit impose someone to do this. I don't think it is compulsory but advised. Also and I am sure Neil will set the record straight if I am wrong but it is also advisable that insurance is taken out on the off chance that an entitled relative comes forward at a later date after the monies have been paid. Whilst anyone could do this job I would say leave it to those who know what they are doing
Rob
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It is advised that anyone making a claim against the BV list employs their own solicitor to act as administrator because the treasury can if they see fit impose someone to do this. I don't think it is compulsory but advised. Also and I am sure Neil will set the record straight if I am wrong but it is also advisable that insurance is taken out on the off chance that an entitled relative comes forward at a later date after the monies have been paid. Whilst anyone could do this job I would say leave it to those who know what they are doing
Rob
well you say that but all probate researchers have started somewhere
I run a genealogy service which has successfully completed many family trees that larger companies have failed on, even tracing into Canada and Transportation
Just the legal side is what I am querying
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Surely the best place to get legal advice is going to be from a probate solicitor? After all you dont expect Neil or any other HH company to give you that info and thus creating more competitors. Have you seen the Heir Hunters Association website http://www.heirhunters-association.org.uk/ which may be a better place to find out.
Also how can you say that the big companies haven't been able to trace these families? They will only trace families where there is a chance they would recover some of their costs.
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Just watched Wednesday's show - "Page/Ardley" - on BBC iplayer (can't keep up!). Excellent programme, I was riveted! In many ways I prefer watching Heir Hunters to WDYTYA - not nearly so contrived. I really like the way the HH programme 'fleshes out' the lives of the deceased people, who are not 'celebrities', as well as showing us the process of tracking down the relatives. George Ardley the farmer, for example, who had an interesting trip to his own funeral on a snow plough - very amusing ;D
I think this series is great so far, they seem to be explaining the tracking process and what goes on in the office (at least at Fraser & Fraser!) better than in previous series'. I'd love to do that job - all those lovely records, compiling family trees - bliss! Ok ok I'm a romantic, it's probably hard graft, pressurised and really frustrating at times ;)
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. George Ardley the farmer, for example, who had an interesting trip to his own funeral on a snow plough - very amusing ;D
I half expected them to say at the end that each heir had inherited 15 and a half cows each !!! That trip to the funeral was hilarious too- can't see anyone allowing that in the middle of a town ::)
I have to record each programme and watch it while I'm having lunch,couldn't possibly wait till the next day to watch it ;D
Carol
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Surely the best place to get legal advice is going to be from a probate solicitor? After all you dont expect Neil or any other HH company to give you that info and thus creating more competitors. Have you seen the Heir Hunters Association website http://www.heirhunters-association.org.uk/ which may be a better place to find out.
Also how can you say that the big companies haven't been able to trace these families? They will only trace families where there is a chance they would recover some of their costs.
No what I meant was when I have traced ancestors for family tree purposes, in particular, I had one customer who previously engaged a large genealogy company and they got a lot of facts wrong
My company is just myself and my husband and we took over and started again and got all the correct information - certficates etc
so when I say sometimes a larger company can trip over its own feet it's true - too many cooks spoil the broth ;D
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I have been a victim of bad heir hunters, and I know that Neil Fraser from F & F agrees with me, that the heir hunting industry needs better regulation. In my case, my half-brother's estate was paid out to distant cousins, because the heir hunting company that dealt with it completely failed to find my sister or myself, even though my half-brother's birth certificate clearly showed the name of our father, and my sister's name was on our father's death certificate, as his daughter ! The whole case could have easily have been solved in about 10 minutes by most of the people on this forum !
The difficulty arises because it is hard to prove that the failure to find the correct heirs were due to an intent to deceive and not incompetence. The reason I say this is because although my sister & I were not close to our half-brother (it's quite hard to be close to an almost total recluse who doesn't own a phone and who doesn't reply to letters), but if anyone had knocked on either mine or my sister's door and told us that someone had died and left us money, there was only one person that it could be. The cousins, on the other hand, had never met our half-brother, so they would sign up on the dotted line.
Fortunately for us, the 'wrong heirs' had taken out missing beneficiary insurance, so we got money from that, but we still had to pay legal fees, so we ended up losing 1000's of pounds, and it still took us more than a year to get the money that was rightfully ours. Still, it was still better than having to sue an old lady in her 80's, and creating animosity with cousins that I'd never met. However, if we had gone down that route, I would have also gone after the heir hunting company and had my day in court with them, even though (as Neil Fraser advised) it was highly probable that this small company would probably have gone bankrupt before we saw any damages from them, even if we had managed to prove the case. I will be eternally grateful to Neil Fraser for the time and advice that he gave, even though his company had nothing to do with our case.
If I were to be doing heir hunting professionally, I'd want to take out some sort of insurance in case a mistake ended up as a court case.
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I have been a victim of bad heir hunters, and I know that Neil Fraser from F & F agrees with me, that the heir hunting industry needs better regulation. In my case, my half-brother's estate was paid out to distant cousins, because the heir hunting company that dealt with it completely failed to find my sister or myself, even though my half-brother's birth certificate clearly showed the name of our father, and my sister's name was on our father's death certificate, as his daughter ! The whole case could have easily have been solved in about 10 minutes by most of the people on this forum !
The difficulty arises because it is hard to prove that the failure to find the correct heirs were due to an intent to deceive and not incompetence. The reason I say this is because although my sister & I were not close to our half-brother (it's quite hard to be close to an almost total recluse who doesn't own a phone and who doesn't reply to letters), if anyone had knocked on either mine or my sister's door and told us that someone had died and left us money, there was only one person that it could be. The cousins, on the other hand, had never met our half-brother, so they would sign up on the dotted line.
Fortunately for us, the 'wrong heirs' had taken out missing beneficiary insurance, so we got money from that, but we still had to pay legal fees, so we ended up losing 1000's of pounds, and it still took us more than a year to get the money that was rightfully ours. Still, it was still better than having to sue an old lady in her 80's, and creating animosity with cousins that I'd never met. However, if we had gone down that route, I would have also gone after the heir hunting company and had my day in court with them, even though (as Neil Fraser advised) it was highly probable that this small company would probably have gone bankrupt before we saw any damages from them, even if we had managed to prove the case. I will be eternally grateful to Neil Fraser for the time and advice that he gave, even though his company had nothing to do with our case.
If I were to be doing heir hunting professionally, I'd want to take out some sort of insurance in case a mistake ended up as a court case.
well theoretically a good job would not need insurance but yes it is adviseable
I will do old cases where there is no rush to 'get there first'
A thorough job is what is needed and no it isn't hard to trace people in this country but taking your time over it and getting it right is most important
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Well, the irony was that when I spoke to Neil Fraser he remembered the case, even though it was at least 6 years old ! Apparently, F & F had considered persuing my half-brother's case, but they didn't, because he wasn't a property owner. Unfortunately there was no way of them knowing that my half-brother had over £230,000 of assets in the bank :o Shame for both of us really, because I know that Fraser and Fraser would have done a good job :)
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One quick query to Neil. Are the meetings with the heirs reconstructions? My husband was watching a programme with me last week and commented on the fact that surely the people in the cars can't have a camera crew with them every time they knock on someone's door.
Lizzie
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I remember Neil saying some time ago that knock on the door first to ask if they'd mind being filmed and then knock again (act surprised!) and make it look like they'd just turned up!
Carol
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Well, the irony was that when I spoke to Neil Fraser he remembered the case, even though it was at least 6 years old ! Apparently, F & F had considered persuing my half-brother's case, but they didn't, because he wasn't a property owner. Unfortunately there was no way of them knowing that my half-brother had over £230,000 of assets in the bank :o Shame for both of us really, because I know that Fraser and Fraser would have done a good job :)
how does the treasury solicitor know how much the deceased has left intestate?
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Well, the irony was that when I spoke to Neil Fraser he remembered the case, even though it was at least 6 years old ! Apparently, F & F had considered persuing my half-brother's case, but they didn't, because he wasn't a property owner. Unfortunately there was no way of them knowing that my half-brother had over £230,000 of assets in the bank :o Shame for both of us really, because I know that Fraser and Fraser would have done a good job :)
how does the treasury solicitor know how much the deceased has left intestate?
Because solicitors acting on behalf of the Crown would have made searches of bank accounts, etc. They would also have advertised for heirs in the newspapers. At one time, the value of estates were advertised in the Bona Vacantia list, but this was stopped to prevent fraud.
You can find out more about the work of the Treasury Solicitor here. (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/ManagingMoney/Bonavacantia/DG_171016)
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With a small handheld camera of the type used for undercover work, a camera crew would not be needed nowadays.
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Nick,
How come the TSol didnt pick up on the fact that they hadn't documented your sister etc when as you say it seems the evidence was before their eyes? If you ask me it all stinks of incompetence on all sides
Rob
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I couldn't agree more. We'd like to know the answer to that, too. I think the outcome may have been better if the social services had dealt with his effects in a more efficient way. All of my half-brother's effects were destroyed. We know that he had my sister's name and address in his possession, and it's extremely likely that he had letters from her, too. I don't know the workings of the Treasury Solicitor intimately, so I'll refrain from making any assumptions, but it's clear to me that the heir hunters were either incompetent or corrupt, but it's time consuming, costly and very difficult to prove either way.
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Nick29
How did you discover that your half-brothers estate had been paid out ?
Although your relationship was clear from your father's death certificate which the HH should have picked up, there must be many situations where half-siblings don't get picked up.
i.e the father/mother goes onto to have more children, especially out of wedlock.
Am I right that it is only mothers maiden name shown in the birth index ? So unless the father married again you wouldn't know that he fathered more children.
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What was the conclusion with the Tim Rose story this morning anyone? We lost transmission for the last 5 minutes so wondered if anyone could let us know!
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Nick29
How did you discover that your half-brothers estate had been paid out ?
Although your relationship was clear from your father's death certificate which the HH should have picked up, there must be many situations where half-siblings don't get picked up.
i.e the father/mother goes onto to have more children, especially out of wedlock.
Am I right that it is only mothers maiden name shown in the birth index ? So unless the father married again you wouldn't know that he fathered more children.
Taking your questions in order......
We discovered that the payout after my sister and I had been discussing my family tree discoveries, and my sister had just finished watching 'Heir Hunters', and my sister remarked that she wondered if our half-brother was still alive. My sister had always knocked on our half-brother's door when she lived in the area, but she had moved about 70 miles away, and could no longer do it. Since I had access to the BMD records, I looked it up, and found that he had died in hospital in the year 2000. We sent for his death certificate, where it was shown that the registrant had been the local social services. Our next step as the probate office, where we found out the name of the solicitors that had handled the probate work.
Our father and mother were married at the same register office as the one where our births were registered. Although both of our parents had been married before, they remained married to each other until their deaths in 1983 and 1996. The sad part is that my half-brother visited my mother (his step-mother) until just before her death in 1996, and my mother had always urged him to make a will, because she knew it would simplify things when he died. Unfortunately our half-brother took this advice to mean "I think you ought to make a will, and leave the money to my children", which she did not mean at all, and so he never made a will, because he was so obstinate. I will not deny the fact that we were never close to our half-brother, especially in his later years, but unfortunately his lifestyle made that practically impossible anyway.
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Thanks Nick for taking the time to reply.
I never meant the second part to seem as if I was questioning your relationship with your brother or your parents marriage although nice that he remained in contact with your mother.
Most families lose contact with someone as years fly and older generations pass on.
I just meant it is more difficult for heir hunters or genealogists to pick up on half-siblings from unmarried relationships.
I'm enjoying the current series. I was a bit confused about Neil's comment the other day about tier 1, tier2 case etc, how can they classify them as such when they don't yet know the value.
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Just watched today's heir hunters and it profiled Tim Rose case. He was great musician and i had not known anything about him. So i had a look around and found quit a bit on his music.
What a talented man he was. He wrote the classic " Hey Joe" and Jimmy Hendrix the big hit with.
Have now down loaded his classic album " Morning dew " and is brilliant.
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That was a good programme, but as I said, missed last 5 minutes, so wondered what F&F concluded about him!
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If you live in the UK, you can catch the program again on BBC i-player ;D
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Thanks Nick for taking the time to reply.
I never meant the second part to seem as if I was questioning your relationship with your brother or your parents marriage although nice that he remained in contact with your mother.
Most families lose contact with someone as years fly and older generations pass on.
I just meant it is more difficult for heir hunters or genealogists to pick up on half-siblings from unmarried relationships.
I'm enjoying the current series. I was a bit confused about Neil's comment the other day
about tier 1, tier2 case etc, how can they classify them as such when they don't yet know the value.
They go on the place of death for example; Westminster or East London, which would probably be the highest house value?
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To save spoiling the ending of today's programme for anyone reading this who is planning to watch it later, I have PM'd Smeni with the closing info.
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Elektra - the Bona Vacania list does not give the value of the estates any more. Heir Hunters have to try to establish the value by finding out if a person owned the property they lived in (by checking with the Land Registry), and by looking at the 2003 Electoral Roll (the last one that was published). They can then allocate 'tiers' based on presumed values. Of course, this is not infallible, as borne out by the man on today's show who had £40,000 cash stashed inside his council home.
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Just a quick question, would a cousin have more claim to an estate than a half cousin if no will had been left? That is the parents of the cousins and half cousins shared a mother but had a different father (two marriages)
Also how easy is it to get hold of a will from 1970?
Lizzie
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LizzieW - for England & Wales "full blood" relation comes before their "half-blood" equivalent. There's a guide on the Court Service website that explains the rules (they changed in 2009) for England & Wales at:
http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/infoabout/civil/probate/why_will.htm#chart
I'm aware that the rules differ elsewhere in the UK.
As regards the 1970 will - again assuming England & Wales it will cost £5 from the Court Service:
http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/1176.htm
(After Ancestry added older probate calendars to their website last year the service via post slowed down - it used to be around 2-3 weeks, I don't know if they're back to those levels).
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Has anyone else noticed that during one of the F&F "stock shots" there's a large bound ledger-type book with the wording "1921 Census" on the spine? (And I have rewound my Sky+ several times to check this!)
Wonder what that's all about?
Pennie
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:o :o
Very interesting!
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Did anyone watch this mornings programme?
One of the unsolved cases they showed was Zillah Joan Forge death registered in Lewes in 2000.
15 minutes have shown me
She never married
She had a twin sister who never married and predeceased her
Found her parents marriage
Found father's baptism together with 3 other siblings at one go
1881 census shows even more siblings for her father
Not even looked at her mother
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That is similar to an experience I had Jaywit - as you say within about 15 minutes I had found parents siblings and chased one line forward to a descendant (and found his address and place of work!).
Are these really unsolved cases, or are they teases for the general public?
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Await F&F's response to that.
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LizzieW - for England & Wales "full blood" relation comes before their "half-blood" equivalent. There's a guide on the Court Service website that explains the rules (they changed in 2009) for England & Wales at:
http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/infoabout/civil/probate/why_will.htm#chart
I'm aware that the rules differ elsewhere in the UK.
As regards the 1970 will - again assuming England & Wales it will cost £5 from the Court Service:
http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/1176.htm
(After Ancestry added older probate calendars to their website last year the service via post slowed down - it used to be around 2-3 weeks, I don't know if they're back to those levels).
Thank you for the info.
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Has anyone else noticed that during one of the F&F "stock shots" there's a large bound ledger-type book with the wording "1921 Census" on the spine? (And I have rewound my Sky+ several times to check this!)
Wonder what that's all about?
I posted a similar query on 10 August on the previous Heir Hunters thread.
I might have been seeing things but on yesterday's programme (which is obviously a repeat, one of the items was doing research to find the heirs to a £250,000 estate and finding out that there literally were no heirs), I thought I saw a file on a shelf marked 1921 census. Was I seeing things Neil, or do you have access to the 1921 census already?
Nick29 though the book might have contained stats from the census as only personal details are subject to the 100 year rule, or it was a 1921 US census.
Neil Fraser from Fraser and Fraser said that the US census was 1920 and when I queried the book again just replied, without further comment "The book does say 1921 census on it".
I have no idea whether F & F have access to later census, it would certainly seem so as in one of the programmes I recorded last week and watched last night, someone in the office said that from census they had found the siblings of the deceased. As his/her parents hadn't married until about 1921 I found that telling too.
Lizzie
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I've just watched part of the relevant prog on iplayer and in the case, the deceased's mother had been married twice. The first time in 1922 when she had 6 children, the first one born 4 years after the marriage. These 6 children would be the deceased's half siblings.
Then there was a comment "Using census records, he thinks he may have found a half brother". This brother was aged 84 so if the programme was made last year, that means the half brother was born in 1926. So how could he or any of the others be seen on a census ???
Your guess is as good as mine as to what is going on.
Lizzie
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That is similar to an experience I had Jaywit - as you say within about 15 minutes I had found parents siblings and chased one line forward to a descendant (and found his address and place of work!).
Are these really unsolved cases, or are they teases for the general public?
Hi these are real unsolved cases as advertised by the Treasury Solicitor.
Some may never have been investigated by Heir Hunters because they believe they have little to no value or they may have just been ignored - it is a long list
It is also possible that they have now been solved and are in the process of being approved by the Treasury. All cases were on the unclaimed list at the time of the programme being made.
Hope this helps
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One quick query to Neil. Are the meetings with the heirs reconstructions? My husband was watching a programme with me last week and commented on the fact that surely the people in the cars can't have a camera crew with them every time they knock on someone's door.
Lizzie
Hi - the meetings with the Heirs are all real - we DO have people in all the cars on Thursdays - If heirs do not want to be on TV we do not film.
We do film the actual moment the Heir Hunters knock on the door - but wait to be invited in.
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I've just watched part of the relevant prog on iplayer and in the case, the deceased's mother had been married twice. The first time in 1922 when she had 6 children, the first one born 4 years after the marriage. These 6 children would be the deceased's half siblings.
Then there was a comment "Using census records, he thinks he may have found a half brother". This brother was aged 84 so if the programme was made last year, that means the half brother was born in 1926. So how could he or any of the others be seen on a census ???
Your guess is as good as mine as to what is going on.
Lizzie
they will have been using census records in combination with BDM records - the Heir Hunters have the same Census records as everyone else.
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That is similar to an experience I had Jaywit - as you say within about 15 minutes I had found parents siblings and chased one line forward to a descendant (and found his address and place of work!).
Are these really unsolved cases, or are they teases for the general public?
Hi these are real unsolved cases as advertised by the Treasury Solicitor.
Some may never have been investigated by Heir Hunters because they believe they have little to no value or they may have just been ignored - it is a long list
It is also possible that they have now been solved and are in the process of being approved by the Treasury. All cases were on the unclaimed list at the time of the programme being made.
Hope this helps
Thank you for answering. I do realise that it is a long list, and firms can't research every case. However, when they do the voice over bit, it sounds to me as if they are implying that teams have tried to find the heirs but have failed. Not to worry - a minor thing in an otherwise excellent programme ;D
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Often inclusion in the programme prompts the Heir Hunting companies to take an other look - so you might see them solved next series. ;D
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""they will have been using census records in combination with BDM records - the Heir Hunters have the same Census records as everyone else""
this doesnt answer question Lizziew asked about the book with 1921 census on the spine!
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I just wonder if they are allowed to look at more up to date census than the general public but don't want to say so. On the previous thread, Neil Fraser did say they have access to records that used to be available to the general public but no longer are ::)
Lizzie
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""they will have been using census records in combination with BDM records - the Heir Hunters have the same Census records as everyone else""
this doesnt answer question Lizziew asked about the book with 1921 census on the spine!
Let's not forget what the purpose of the census is - it is there to track population trends, changes in employment, the numbers of people in different age groups, death rates,etc. This sort of data is published, because it is not subject to any '100 year rules'. Only the personal detail is subject to these rules. So the book may be either about the census, or it may contain general data from it.
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I just wonder if they are allowed to look at more up to date census than the general public but don't want to say so. On the previous thread, Neil Fraser did say they have access to records that used to be available to the general public but no longer are ::)
Lizzie
I think he was referring to the 2003 Electoral Rolls when he said that, Lizzie :)
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Nick - I think you're right about the 2003 electoral rolls, they do seem to use those quite often - not unreasonable of course if you've got access to them.
Being as old as I am ??? I'm not interested in modern records anyway as I already have all the info about my family, aunts, uncles, cousins etc. I'm far more interested in pre 1911. I'm not expecting a knock on the door from any heir hunters any time soon, I have no ancestors who didn't have children, apart from an aunt who died and I was named in her will and an uncle who died many years ago and left a widow. She has since re-married, so I guess if she dies before her husband, she'll leave what she has to him and if he dies first and she hasn't made a will then, of course, I (and my cousins) are not her blood relatives.
Lizzie
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Does anyone know what these heir hunter company agreements look like ?
just in case one comes through the door - if it looks dodgy then I'd ignore it
Is there a format for them?
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sorry for the lack of answers I have been away.
Nigeria, before you ask, and no I hadn't received a letter telling me that a prince had died and left me $100 million, all I had to do was claim it was send money for a plane ticket and my bank details, and not I was not sending out a load of those letters either.
Did have a very nice meeting with the registrar general in Ghana, went in to say hello and we sat there talking for 2 hours, there system is a bit of a mess but I did find out they have a national system of records and currently 65%-70% of births are registered, less than 10% of deaths though. We talked about the future of there registration system.
If you have and question that Matt (Heir Hunters TV) didn't answer then please repost and I will have a go.
Every one wants to know about 1921 census, my lips are sealed, sorry
and as for "heir hunters association" my personal thoughts are how can a person who was once an heir to an estate with no family history or probate research experience form an association giving out advice is beyond me, I think I know; or know of 99% of probate researcher and don't know a single member of the association. Please be careful with any advice given. again this is my personal opinion and not me talking on behalf of F&F
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and as for "heir hunters association" my personal thoughts are how can a person who was once an heir to an estate with no family history or probate research experience form an association giving out advice is beyond me, I think I know; or know of 99% of probate researcher and don't know a single member of the association. Please be careful with any advice given. again this is my personal opinion and not me talking on behalf of F&F
Neil that was my thought when he first started it up. Having looked at the site and in particular the forum its not that good anyway and the cost is unbelievable. Just one point though I feel the need to make and please dont think I am having a pop because that is not my intention. You say you know 99% or know of 99% of probate researchers however thx to the popularity of Heir Hunters and the way the BBC make it look so easy many new people are springing up and I am sure that figure of 99% will actually be a lot lower.
Rob
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Rob point taken may be less than 99%, but we do work a lot of cases and do keep logs of who we find on different cases so that is why I said heard of but it may well be less than 99%
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It is a really interesting programme and its great to see how HH works out trees - in just the same way as some of us do!
I'm sure if we had the direct access to some of the records as F&F do, we'd be able to sort our own tree problems out just as quickly. :-) although I do understand there are a lot more "legal aspects" that the rest of us family history researchers don't have to deal with.
Great programme - just wish I wasn't at work when its on! I have to try and make time to use iplayer!!
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Does anyone know what these heir hunter company agreements look like ?
just in case one comes through the door - if it looks dodgy then I'd ignore it
Is there a format for them?
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some firms have copied ours over the years, so most of them look very similar.
they are generally a single page of A4 with a decent size font (12) and fairly basic really, we don't have small print, although some do. Between 3 and 6 points in paragraphs setting out what is going to happen and how much you will be giving away.
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thanks for that Neil
It helps to know so I can ignore any that look dodgy
even though I don't think I am entitled to anything anyway :P
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Neil,
That was why I said I wasnt having a dig. BTW is there no way you could talk the BBC into making a follow up showing how difficult it is to get TSol to accept a claim it may just show a lot or people that the tracing aspect is by far the easiest part? I doubt they would because am sure it wouldnt make good viewing though. That said its been good to see cases being dropped due to the financial aspects and others where they have been worked put to bed and then reopened.
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Do the BBC do the same with HH as they do with WDYTYA? Basically make it look like it takes all of 10 minutes to trace someone and then a hour to get the money sorted? Realistically, on average, how long does it take from the first search until the heir gets their money?
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12-18 months
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nice to see on Celtic's effort today on Roberts they got to the same stage we were at in 2006/7
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Neil,
Thanks for your input - always interesting to get answers from the firm involved.
Out of idle curiosity, do you deal with estates in the Duchies of Lancaster & Cornwall? I've heard these are separate from the Treasury's Bona Vacantia & wondered how they could be searched - never having seen adverts etc. Incidentally has the day changed to Friday for the Treasury's lists as the advert seems to go in that day's Times rather than Thursday as before?
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Every one wants to know about 1921 census, my lips are sealed, sorry
Perhaps you should hide it from the view of the camera Neil, we Rootschatters are very observant and very nosey ::) ::)
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Neil,
Thanks for your input - always interesting to get answers from the firm involved.
Out of idle curiosity, do you deal with estates in the Duchies of Lancaster & Cornwall? I've heard these are separate from the Treasury's Bona Vacantia & wondered how they could be searched - never having seen adverts etc. Incidentally has the day changed to Friday for the Treasury's lists as the advert seems to go in that day's Times rather than Thursday as before?
Have tried locating the Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall and never yet found it so can't answer that point but with regards to the day TSol release their latest list I can say it is Midnight Thursday it is released which will be after the copy time of the Times and that is why it will be in Fridays paper
Rob
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wonder with the 'heir hunters' how many nasty replies from phone calls they actually get
By the programme it looks like everyone who answers the phone to them are quite nice about it
I wonder if they get reported to authorities as I am sure I would if I telephoned someone out of the blue telling them I am researching their family and they may be due some money ::)
also do the companies have to be in possession of all certs to do with the beneficiaries before approaching the family or do they rely on the benificiaries supplying photocopies for them to send to the TSo
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the firms should supply the certs, however some of them try to do it bellow cost then get the heirs to provide there own certs.
the certs would usually only be ordered after the heirs have signed.
list comes out Midnight on Wednesday (Thursday morning) they are in the paper 4 weeks after the advert on the web. hadn't seen it had changed. they are given to the papers a few weeks in advance and go in the legal and public section, there have been leeks in the past from the papers that is why they are on the web first.
yes we work DoL and DoC cases
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Hi there
There was something a bit weird on today's program. When Celtic went to the welsh registrar, I noticed that the registrar took a register from the safe multiple times to check different queries. It was the same one from the same position on the same shelf.
Now either he must be very forgetful or was it a case of shoot one scene, use for all? ;D
Great to see how the Pros do it though.
Oh yeh, the wall at the end of the office, where the air con is could do with a dust off some time. ;)
John
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the firms should supply the certs, however some of them try to do it bellow cost then get the heirs to provide there own certs.
the certs would usually only be ordered after the heirs have signed.
list comes out Midnight on Wednesday (Thursday morning) they are in the paper 4 weeks after the advert on the web. hadn't seen it had changed. they are given to the papers a few weeks in advance and go in the legal and public section, there have been leeks in the past from the papers that is why they are on the web first.
yes we work DoL and DoC cases
so do you send originals through the post to the TSo and if so do they return them to you to dispose of
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yes
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Neil
Is David Pacifico really that grumpy ? ;D
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nice to see on Celtic's effort today on Roberts they got to the same stage we were at in 2006/7
Presumably you didn't have to wait for the 1911 census to be released like Celtic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ::) ::)
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list comes out Midnight on Wednesday (Thursday morning) they are in the paper 4 weeks after the advert on the web. hadn't seen it had changed. they are given to the papers a few weeks in advance and go in the legal and public section, there have been leeks in the past from the papers that is why they are on the web first.
yes we work DoL and DoC cases
Thanks Neil for the info. Is there an equivalent website for the Lancaster/Cornwall cases or is it a case of scouring ads in local papers? Sorry if that's a trade secret...
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I would be very interested to know what websites they use besides the normal ones we use they seem to be able to find a lot more than I can.
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Hi there
There was something a bit weird on today's program. When Celtic went to the welsh registrar, I noticed that the registrar took a register from the safe multiple times to check different queries. It was the same one from the same position on the same shelf.
Now either he must be very forgetful or was it a case of shoot one scene, use for all? ;D
Great to see how the Pros do it though.
Oh yeh, the wall at the end of the office, where the air con is could do with a dust off some time. ;)
John
Peter was there for quite a while - and asked for lots of different records - we did not repeat the shot (as you asked) :D - I think the poor registrar did get a little fed up...
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Heir Hunters tv,
What I like about the programme is the bits you include about social history eg in todays programme there was a nice piece on the Scottish shepherd's coming down to Exmoor and trying to turn the moors into a rural idyll - (its all relative!)
The more of these bits you can include in the programme the better in my view.
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As you may have noticed we are including more and more social history in each episode - thanks for the feedback and glad you enjoy the show.
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I'm also really enjoying this series. I agree with davidft about the social history aspects being included, I've learnt a great deal from these little snippets. Loved the archival film footage of London's Oxford Circus around the beginning of the 20th C the other day, for instance! (Can't remember which episode, sorry!).
Neil
Is David Pacifico really that grumpy ? ;D
Hehe, I'd imagine it can get pretty stressful when you're working against the clock and nothing is falling into place :(. At least Tony's cheered up a bit I noticed - he seems a bit calmer and happier in this series ;D. One guy I feel a little sorry for at F & F is Ewart, the travelling researcher, who seems to be have been sent on a lot of wild goose chases! You've got to like driving in that job, haven't you ::) ;D
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We have really enjoyed this new format which includes so much social history.
Although sad when there is no conclusion, very heartenenig when distant relations meet and carry on to build their tree..Hope Frazers reps mention RC !!
Spring
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Ewart is one of our favourites..
Will he manage to get to an appointment or will his car break down..??
Hope we don't put the 'fluence on but he looks very trim this series and his car seems to be OK fingers crossed!!
Spring
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Ewart has such a lovely cheerful attitude. Anyone spending that amount of time driving in SE London and maintaining their sanity deserves a medal anyway :)
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Nick,
What do you mean I did it for 8 years and never had a problem in fact that is one of the most relaxed areas I have ever driven in. I still come down there every couple of weeks and love crossing the bridges into Battersea Wandsworth etc. The worst is from Central London to the East End. Brick Lane is awful as is the road through Poplar
Rob
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I think the reason for my anxiety could be because I was born in SE London, lived there until I was 26, and have spent the last 37 years living outside of London. On the rare occasions when I go back these days, so much has changed that sometimes I'm completely lost in the town of my birth :)
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I know what you mean Nick. When I passed my test I said the only place in England I didnt want to drive was London itself because of how it looked to an outsider yet within 24 hours there was I driving up the Embankment lol I have to say I find rural driving more frightening than driving round the South Circular and the M25. Hmm I must be going insane lol
Rob
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Noticed on todays programme that it was said that during wars all forces personal made wills before leaving for the fighting and F & F looked for this for some info..........can I ask where we should look for these wills?
sandie
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Sandie,
During WWI the wills tended to be written on scraps of paper and given to the Medical Orderly. I doubt these would have been processed the same. Missing todays program I cant help more than that
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thanks thought it must be too good to be true
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http://www.nas.gov.uk/guides/soldiersWills.asp this is the Scottish link I cant put my finger on the English one.
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I loved the bit today when Jo explained that if people had their mothers maiden name as a middle name( as my grandad did) it could mean that they were well endowed
I'm still laughing at that one ;D ;D ;D
Carol
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Carol, I missed the program, please enlighten me.
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Watch it here Roger http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00zp6cx/Heir_Hunters_Series_5_Drinkwater_Neaves/
She was trying to say that if they had lots of names they usually had money,but that's not what came out LOL
I replayed it to show my husband-he was surprised they let it go ahead with that bit in the programme ;D
Carol
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Thanks Carol, if it is mysteriously pulled I shall know why!
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it was a little slip, that Flame (the producers) should have removed, certainly if we were paid actors or famous it would have been removed, instead I have a very embarrassed member of staff and a not too happy research room.
Flame have just given us the contract for HH6 not sure I will have too many staff wanting to work with them, especially as they don't get paid for it.
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Poor Old Jo ;D
But it gave us a good laugh and by tomorrow will be forgotten.
My grandad's middle name was Mockridge,his mothers maiden name.
I'm still smiling at the thought of it being true ;)
But we knew what she meant!
Carol
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I really don't see what the hullabaloo is all about. used in the right context the phrase is perfectly acceptable. Just a shame some people can't see beyond its offensive, slang, use
Well-endowed (adjective)
1. Affluent, provided with substantial property, a sizeable income etc
2. Naturally excellent, talented or capable as a result of a natural gift
3. Offensive term, an offensive term meaning a large xxxxx or large xxxxxxx
Think someone owes Flame an apology ..........
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I don't think most men would agree with the third meaning of the word, ladies perhaps, who knows and more to the point the programme surely meant it in the old fashioned version of the term. It used to be fairly often used in that way.
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As you suggest David, it's all in the mind!
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Hi,
Surely all of us that are in to family history have heard of someone receiving an endowment and didn't think of it in the smutty way that some people have taken it.
I for one hope that HH6 goes ahead. F&F are doing a grand job, it's entertaining and I'm sure some of us are learning a lot from the programme.
Bob.
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OK chaps - 20 pages!
If you think it is worth it, please start another ...
8)
Edit: New thread here - http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,522458.0.html