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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: suebeetroot on Tuesday 01 March 11 16:45 GMT (UK)
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Jane Elizabeth Craven born 1878 was my great Grandmother. She was the wife of Francis Bede Craven. They lived in Manchester for some time and i think were quite well to do. Their daughter, my Grandmother, had her birth registered in Didsbury, Manchester on 12 May 1903.
Can i find out anything more about the Cravens as I'm new to all this. Thank you.
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Do you have the family in Manchester on the 1911? and if so what details do you have, Your grandmother name would help and address 1911.
Migky ;)
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Hi
Welcome to Rootschat!
Looks as if it may be a change of area!
Free bmd has Francis Bede Craven married Jane Ellery (or Mary Ellizabeth Harvey), in Bath Apr - June 1901, Index 5c 1224.
Best wishes
Emms :)
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Francis Bede Craven born June 1/4 1871 Chorley Lancashire.
Migky ;)
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PS You can search here
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Once you have that code, you can send for a birth certificate, but it costs, so see what else we can find first.
as Migky suggested, a census would be really useful, especially as the Bath marriage is unexpected. It would give birthplaces. I don't have access at home just now, but we'll see what else we canfind.
Best wishes
Emms :)
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Hi Migky
MMm! Is Bath a Red Herring, were thwere two or did they travel??!!
:) :) ???
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Hi Emms, hows ya keeping?
Duno abot the two Francis Bede Craven's till we get more info from the poster of this?
Migky ;)
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Hi Migky
Back online just now!
Yes, Bath wasn't what I expected, but I can't find another one - not on Lancashire bmd, Lancashire OPC or Free bmd anyway - slightly l;ate, so maybe there're odd ones not online yet.
Manchester and Lancashire Family history Society has a good number of Cravens on its RC database, but mostly earlier - on the other hand, it's a small though amazing sample for RC churches. Looks like St Chads is on now though.
Best wishes
Emms :)
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Thank you soooooo much everybody. This is wonderful. Give me two ticks to collect my certificates that I have and i'll be back.
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Hi
It's great to hear back from you. Look forward to seeing what you've got.
Best wishes
Emms :)
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there is a Bath connection so we're talking on one chap. Here's what I have from my certificates:-
Certificate of Marriage dated 16/06/1901 between Francis Bede Craven 27 years - Gentleman of Poplar Farm, Atworth, Wilts. His Fathers profession is 'Gentleman' and
Jane Elleray 23 years of 9 Pierrepoint Street, BATH. Her father was Robert Elleray a farmer.
Jane Elleray now Craven dies 29/05/27 aged 49 years whilst living at 76 Coverton Road SW17 London.
Their only child, my Grandmother, whom I remember vividly was Hilda Frances Craven born 12 May 1903 and her birth is registered in Didsbury, Manchester. She later married a Lang from Monmouth and thats where my later leads take me.
A couple of photos of my grandmother show her as a child on a porch with veranda in a country house style setting (Poplar Farm?) with fine clothes and there was talk of servants.
Thank you all so much for help and advice. I'll go and check the census. I don't know what you mean about the Index that was mentioned?
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Will send you a PM relating to the 1911 & Hilda
Migky ;)
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ooops - my grandmother - Hilda was born 7 april 1903. the date i put before was date her birth was registered.
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Hi
thank you for all the feed back.
It looks as if you have the marriage, but if you hadn't, by index I meant the General Record Office index of Births, Marriages and deaths and the index reference which I gave, gives the area and page number. It can help find the certificate from the National Office at Smedley Hydro i n Southport.
There are different indexes for the local register offices.
I'll have a look at your info and have a think.
Best wishes
Emms :)
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I've e-mailed you my e-mail address Migky. Thank you. And you are a wonderful woman Emms :)
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Hi
Not sure about that, but thank you!
It is nice when people show appreciation! Rootschat is great for people helping each other out!
I know, I've had loads of help from people all over the world, with more expertise, or where I can't get to.
Enjoy! :) :) :)
Emms
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I'm just so grateful that you lovely people have gone out of your way to help. I know there are lots of sources of info on the net etc but when you a newcomer to all this like me, it can be a bit mindboggling and confusing about where to start.
I'm gathering that the census records are the places to look plus that freebmd site. is it worth paying for ancestry website or the others. Any recommendations?
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Not sure if theres a connection, but your comment a "wealthy family, there was a a well known firm, Craven Engineers from Manchester
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First of all befor you go and splash out a small fortune, i would recommend that you check out your local library. See if they subscribe to the Ancestry libray edition, a lot do and this will give you free access but you will have to book time on one of there computers at the library.
Migky ;)
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Thank you Bodger. I've just googled Craven Engineers Manchester and the info is fascinating. It was founded by three Craven brothers, one of whom is John - John Craven is my Grandmothers Grandfather. Could he be the one and the same? Will need to dig. Thank you again.
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Could this be the same company?
"Machine Making and Machine Tools, Craven Brothers - Product of, Manchester "
Moderator Comment: Image removed
These images are made available for personal enjoyment or private study only. Anyone wishing to reproduce, exhibit, or make commercial use of an image in any medium (including books, newspapers, television, films, public exhibitions, websites or computer programmes) must first seek permission from Manchester Archives and Local Studies.
http://images.manchester.gov.uk/index.php?session=pass
Just put the word "Craven " in this search engine Click here for more images (http://images.manchester.gov.uk/index.php?session=pass)
Migky ;)
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Few bits on youtube to.
Click for youtube & Craven's of Manchester (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opp_6uhGfKw)
Migky ;)
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I'd been looking up this family for the same poster on another thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,517424.0.html
1891 has Francis at RG12/3421 folio 102 pg 10
1871 Westwood, Clayton le Woods RG10/4195 folio 102 pg 9
John Craven head mar 46 tea dealer
Elizabeth wife 38
John son 10
Elizabeth dau 6
Arthur son 4
Charles son 1
all born Lancashire
+ cook, nursemaid, housemaid
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Brilliant! Thanks again for all your replies. Just wish there were more hours in the day - you sit down for five minutes to do a bit of research and suddenly half the days gone!!
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Thanks for all that info osprey. is that from the census? i would love to see that in writing as it were.
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yes, that's my transcription from the census image. You can see the images on sites like Ancestry and Findmypast, They have been filmed from the enumerators' books. It's only the 1911 that has the householders' own schedules.
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I'm off to the library - i've booked a session to scroll through all the records. Can't wait....
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Another image of the Craven company Manchester.
http://images.manchester.gov.uk/web/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=63037
Lets hope this one doesn't go A.W.O.L. ;D
Migky ;)
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so i'm wondering if the connection is with the Craven engineers of Manchester or is he the Tea Dealer that Ospreys has found. How sure can i be that the tea dealer is my John Craven, Osprey?
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you could get the marriage cert from 1901 and see what occupation Francis Bede gives for his father
GRO ref
Francis Bede Craven june qtr 1901 Bath 5c pg 1224 with Jane Elleray on the same page
or you can order by post from the Superintendent Registrar in Bath. There won't be a parish record as the marriage was in the registry office.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0c4d/
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yet again Osprey - I thank you...........
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ah - the marriage certificate I have............ and Francis's Father is listed as Gentleman, so doesn't really narrow it down. Jane's Father was a Farmer. Still a bit stuck on this then........
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sorry, I forgot you mentioned you had that cert. Do you have his birth cert?
Francis Bede Craven june qtr 1871 Chorley vol 8e pg 471
That should give an occupation and you could compare the address to the one I found for the family in 1871. His older brother is still at that address (Westwood) in 1901.
1881 Westwood House RG11/4216 folio 66 pg 8
John Craven head mar 56 wholesale & retail grocer & tea & coffee merchant b. Lancs, Whittle le Woods
Elizabeth wife 47 b. Preston
John son 20 medical student b. Chorley
Ann Dowling 26? general servant b. Ireland
1881 Arthur, Charles & Francis (enumerated as Frank) are at a school in Lower Bullingham in Herefordshire run by the Sisters of Charity of St Vincent de Paul
http://www.visitoruk.com/historydetail.php?id=11338&cid=592&f=Hereford
It's a pity that the house address isn't given on the 1891 census.
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I believe your cravens may have known my Heatleys.
When I can get my head round things i will post more but I belive they were well to do in Chorley.
My Heatleys also came to Manchester.
Marriage: 19 May 1836 St George, Chorley, Lancashire, England
John Heatley - Chemist and Druggist of London in the county of Middlesex
Ellen Jackson - Spinster
Witness: John Roskell Arrowsmith; L Lucas; Ann Heatley; E Craven
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ok goldy - thank you. I'll wait to hear further from you.
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so far I found this
born 1861
John CRAVEN Chorley Preston mum maiden HAYES
1862
Elizabeth CRAVEN Chorley Preston mm HAYES
1871
Francis Bede CRAVEN Leyland Preston mm HAYES
Marriages Dec 1849
Craven John
Hayes Elizabeth Preston
if Francis lived in altworth poplar farm there was also a place called the Hayes mums maiden
http://history.wiltshire.gov.uk/gallery/map/atworth_map003.jpg
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Thats great goldy - thank you. how did you find all this then? I seem to go round in circles when i do my research. So, are we connected?
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not found it yet sorry but it getting intriguing
less is more whilst searching they were either freebmd or lansbmd
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OK thanks. I have lots of certificates from Francis Bede Craven but it gets confusin g after that as there were so many Johns!
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I found John and Elizabeth in market st Chorley on 1851 as tea dealer.
I think next step is his marriage cert to find his dad.
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thats brilliant goldy, thank you so much. what can i do?
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Francis Bede Craven was my Great Uncle.
I have his birth as 24 Apr 1871 in Chorley/Leyland.
I was Googling his name and found your posts, so I joined this group.
I am aware of a marriage to Jane Elizabeth Elleray on 16 Jun 1901, though his age on
the certificate (27) disagrees with his real age (30). His fathers name is correct and
that he is deceased.
I lost track of him after the marriage and did not find the birth of his daughter.
I did find a Francis Craven sailed in 1908 to the USA and states that he has an Uncle,
James Fairclough in Boston. This agrees though Uncle is not the correct description.
I have a fair amount of information on the Craven family, but I am new to this forum and not sure about it. Is there a way to exchange e-mails ?
would prefer to communicate by e-mail
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Hi Paul, this is great to see. Francis was my Great Grandfather so we're connected somewhere there. Will just see how I send you my e-mail. Regards, Sue
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I've sent you my e-mail Paul.
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I've had a look in the papers online and there's a few references to a Francis Bede Craven and Charles Benedict Craven with "the Low Mill Printing and Bleaching Company (ltd)".
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Thanks to this brilliant website I've discovered that Paul, poster just above here is my second cousin once removed!!
He was able to give me a photo of Francis Bede Craven and his dad, John Craven and info on their children!!!
They did all live well, as merchants and dealers, with maids and big houses.
Thank you to everyone who's helped.
I would love to go further back with John Craven now. And would love to find out more about the Elleray line (Francis's wifes side).
To Peter - thank you for that. If i google the company name will i find your info?
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I was looking on a website you need a lancashire library card to login on but there is this in the London Gazette:
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/27157/pages/529/page.pdf
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Thanks Pete, that's great.
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Hi suebeetroot,i see on this page you say you are related to a john craven of manchester,i am also related to him,can you give me more details please.
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Hi Mr Gorby, Francis Bede Craven was my Grandfather and his father was John Craven. Whereabouts are you in the family tree.
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suebeetroot hi can give you more details my middle names are john craven dont know much about family tree other than my grandmothers name was doris standring she grew up in manchester and married a man called ferry both are now dead
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hi again - on page 5 of this post you can see more info on Francis Bede. His father was John Craven. The names you've given, apart from John, don't seem to be mentioned in any of the posts/trees.
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I would be very interested to learn more about the families of Craven & Finch who resided at Westwood House, Clayton-Le-Woods and in particular any photographs of the property which was demolished in the early 1970's.