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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Essex => Topic started by: a1emslie on Tuesday 08 March 11 22:26 GMT (UK)
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I wonder if anyone could possibly suggest an avenue of investigation?
My grand-father was John David Jenkins (also documented as David Jack Jenkins, the same as his father).My father John Frederick J was born in Blofield, Norfolk in dec 1919.His father's marriage in the previous jan 1919,says the husband was David Jack J,aged 24 yr, and using the Colchester Cavalry Barracks as his address.I do not know the names of any great aunts/uncles(none on certificate).Can I deduce anything at all from his address ?He was in the RASC as a driver which doesn't really help me.Why would he have ended up at Colchester Barracks?Would there be any geographical reason for this?Would he have started out there?
I know that later on he had the Jenkins Cafe in Felixstowe.I see that there was a Jenkins Cafe in Colchester too, in the same street where my aunt, Mabel May Jenkins was born in 1925.Daisy M D J was born in Colchester too in 1923.Could this be a link, and how could I investigate this further?
If anyone has any suggestions at all about further research, please let me know.I would love to make content with any descendants too.I never met my aunts, but I believe that one of them may have married a Bernard Unknown and had a child.
Thank you in anticipation of any suggestions!
Annabel.
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Hi
When you joined the army you went wherever the regiment was sent My father joined up in Middlesex with th e17 21st lancers but still ended up stationed at the Cavalry Baracks in Colchester which is where he met my mother...... :)
Ronnie
I will see what I can find out from the local records office
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hello annabel
have you tried tracing back through the censuses for siblings of your grandfather .
if your dad was born in norfolk do you know was your grandad stationed there ?
and what st was the cafe in in colchester , as an old col boy it,s always nice to find fresh info on the old place ,
best wishes
trevor
ps hows it going ronnie you,ve been keeping a low profile lately it seems ! ;)
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Hi Annabel,
From the info. you have given have been looking at the censuses this appears to be Mabel - your father John Frederick Jenkins born 1919 Blofield mother's maiden name Gamble
1919 marriage Blofield
David J Jenkins
Mabel N Gamble (should middle initial b ‘M’ )
This looks to be Mabel with her family on 1901 census
1901 Sandy Lane, Little Plumstead
GAMBLE, John Head Married M 39 1862 Railway Platelayer Gt Plumstead Norfolk
GAMBLE, Adelaide Ann Wife Married F 39 1862 Lt Plumstead Norfolk
GAMBLE, Adelaide Ostor Daughter Single F 10 1891 Gt PlumsteadNorfolk
GAMBLE, Fanny Daughter Single F 8 1893 Gt PlumsteadNorfolk
GAMBLE, Mabel May Daughter Single F 6 1895 Gt Plumstead Norfolk
your grandfather John David Jenkins (David Jack J) proving more difficult from the marriage certificate you say he was 24 years at marriage 1919 so a birth date around 1895 - I can't seem to find him with his father of the same name on 1901c ???
Found these John Jenkins with father John Jenkins but John jnr. date of birth is way out compared to his age of 24 on marriage cert in 1919
so probably not him :-\ see added info. below
1901 Colchester
JENKINS, John Single M 20 1881 Private Infantry Militia Leyton Essex
1891 2, Avenue Road, Leyton
JENKINS, John Head Married M 42 1849 Tin Plate Worker Hackney London
JENKINS, Maria Wife Married F 40 1851 Worcester
JENKINS, John Son M 12 1879 Scholar Leyton Essex
JENKINS, Thomas Son M 6 1885 Scholar Leyton Essex
JENKINS, Amy Daughter F 2 1889 Leyton Essex
JENKINS, Harry Son M 0 (6M) 1891 Leyton Essex
**ADDED**
Have discounted the above as there's a birth entry for
John THOMAS Jenkins 1879 W Ham (this covers Leyton Parish)
What occupation given for father on marriage certificate for David J J ?
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Annabel
I can see no obvious John David/David John/Jack Jenkins born around 1895 living in the Colchester or Norfolk area in 1901 with a father of the same name I could have overlooked something :-\
This is all I've found for a John David Jenkins born 1897 father John mother Eliza Ann - don't know if this will help any - Eliza & family living in Derbyshire 1901 :-\
1901 Egg Buckland Devonshire
JENKINS, John Head Married M 38 1863 3rd R W Fusiliers Mold Denbighshire N Wales
1901 Nelson Street, Newbold And Dunston, Derbyshire
JENKINS, Eliza A Wife Married F 28 1873 Mold Wales (married to John above)
JENKINS, Thomas Son M 9 1892 MoldWales
JENKINS, Mary Ann Daughter F 6 1895 Mold Wales
JENKINS, John D Son M 4 1897 Mold Wales
JENKINS, Edward Son M 2 1899 Newbold Moor Derbyshire
JENKINS, Arthur Son M 0 (7 MOS) 1901 Newbold Moor Derbyshire
LITTLER, George A Boarder Single M 17 1884 Coal Miner Liverpool Everton
Birth entry
John David Jenkins
Jun qtr. 1896 Holywell (covers Mold)
1891 Pentre Hill, Pentre, Mold
JENKINS, John Head Widower M 58 1833 Coal Miner Mold
JENKINS, John Son Single M 30 1861 Coal Miner Mold
JENKINS, David Son Single M 23 1868 Coal Miner Mold
JENKINS, Martha Daughter Single F 14 1877 Scholar Mold
ROBERTS, Richard Visitor Single M 4 1887 Scholar Wakefield
Marriage entry
Jun qtr. 1891 Holywell
John Jenkins name on same page
Eliza Ann Norman
Hopefully someone else may be able to come up with something
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Dear All,
Firstly, thank you so much for your suggestions!
Ronnie, I guess I just wondered whether he might have come back to Colchester because he had started there( I don't know where he enlisted).Wishful thinking .So Colchester Barracks almost a red-herring for me I suppose.
Trevor, I have had a go at the siblings with no results that have been helpful, but perhaps when 1911C comes on to Ancestry this year, I will have another go.
The street in Colchester is St John's Street.In 1925 the family lived at 45.The Jenkins' Cafe I think, was at 42.Again this may be another red-herring for me, but it just seems a bit of a co-incidence, and as I'm clutching at straws anyway, why not have a go at another!
I just wonder if one of my aunts decided to come back to an area she knew after either my grand-parents died, or the Felixstowe Cafe area was redeveloped.I know that both the girls helped out in Felixstowe.One married and may have had a child with a hearing or sight problem.Attached photo is of one of my aunts ?Daisy and her husband.
Hi Ladyhawk.Yes, you are spot on for the Census, and I can trace the Gambles back a fair way, thank goodness.I don't know what happened to Mabel May though, as my mother said that she ran off.......anyway that's another conundrum!I never met any of my grand-parents, and all 4 have complicated stories!
I had thought that my father's parents might have been living in Blofield at the time of his birth 1919.Recently , I have wondered whether Mabel May (grm) simply returned to her mother's for the birth.
Occupation of grf:
Jan 1919 driver RASC.His father "gentleman!' Both same name (grf and grgrf) and listed David Jack.
Dec 1919 John Frederick Jenkins' birth cert-informant mother, lists father's name as John David--commercial traveller in fancy goods.Late Driver RASC.
Aug 1925 Mabel May Jenkins' birth cert--informant mother, lists father's name as
John David--Draper (master).In fact I hadn't registered this last fact, so it's good to realise that.
I have spent some time looking at a cdrom of Kelly's for 25/26 norfolk/suffolk/essex, but haven't found them yet.....back to the Drapers now!
I do not know when the family moved to Felixstowe and I think that I shall have to go to the Records Office one day/week just to get another point on the timeline.
My grf and my aunts were alive in the '70s.
Thank you all so much for your suggestions.
Annabel.
PS I see you have posted again whilst I have been typing.Thanks for your hard work!I will explore what you have come up with further and I will apply for the other aunt's b cert, just to know her initials, in case there is an unusual name there :)!
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Here's the photo as described above.
Annabel.
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hi annabel
i can remember a cafe in st johns st close to what was the playhouse cinema obviously this is a lot later than your rellies time but still may have been the one ! , i should have asked where the cafe was in felixstowe as well seeing as that,s where i live now,i get over excited when col comes up ;D and if i had a brain i,d be dangerous ;D, also can you scan the pic bigger only i can,t make out what the folk look like and if i enlarge it it blurs out
best wishes
trevor
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Hi Trevor,
The Felixstowe Jenkins' Cafe was near the sea and had a higher row of large houses a bit above it!!
Unfortunately, I cannot enlarge the photo without it blurring at this end ::)
Somewhere, I have another photo, and I will try to post that one today if I can find it :)
Until then,thanks again,
Annabel.
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Here is a rescan of the said photo.I hope that it is better--in fact I can't upload it, probably because I have used a higher resolution.Sorry Trevor, I'm nor sure I can try anything else.
No promises, but I will try another way with a link to this message!
Annabel.
/Users/a1emslie/Desktop/F_H 1.jp2
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I don't think that this will be any better unfortunately!
Annabel.
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Just to complete the picture, here is a family line-up.
To the left is the step-mother, then my mother, my father, then ?May, ?Daisy and lastly my grf.Approx 1945.
If anyone recognises any faces, please say!
Many thanks to you all for your help.
Annabel.
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hi annabel
there perfect now the pics well done , as to the cafe if it was near the shore was it also near the pier ?can you remember only there are still 2 cafe,s and other ice cream type places there now ,
do you hnow what branch of the airforce your dad was in and his rank
trevor
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hello annabel
have you tried tracing back through the censuses for siblings of your grandfather .
if your dad was born in norfolk do you know was your grandad stationed there ?
and what st was the cafe in in colchester , as an old col boy it,s always nice to find fresh info on the old place ,
best wishes
trevor
ps hows it going ronnie you,ve been keeping a low profile lately it seems ! ;)
Hi Trev
Im fine been trying to find out about Bridgebrook Estates on another search
maybe you know something about it as its not far from where you were living
Was hoping to find the jenkins at the Library but havent managed to go in yet Will see what I can do tomorrow
Ronnie :)
Hope you are well.
Ronnie
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Hi Trevor,
I know that the cafe doesn't exist anymore.The area has been redeveloped.I wish I could put my hands on the little information that I have about it...no such luck!
My father was a flight lieutenant and a Pathfinder.Bomber Command.
Another of the crew members had the surname Cochrane.N for Nuts springs to mind for the plane.
Annabel.
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hi annabel
i do know that near to the pier there was a hotel which was pulled down and the leisure centre put up n it,s place so could have been around there or further along another hotel was pulled down and a block of flats and a carpark cover that area i,ll have to ask an older resident there bound to know it .
as to dad are you aware you can send off as next of kin for his service record it,l cost you £30 go to www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/service_records.html there you can download the forms you,l also need his death cert
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Thanks Trevor,I may well do that as I have his death certificate.
Annabel.
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Hi
If you google "Jenkins cafe colchester" it will show you a picture It is 42 Sy Johns Street I will try to get a look at the Street Directory ect in the records office See if it helps
Trevor will recognise it Ha ha
Ronnie
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Thanks Ronnie!Presumably it has gone now?
Annabel.
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Annabel,
Looks as if it's still there in the high street address
Jenkins Cafe
42 St. Johns Street
Colchester
CO2 7AD
as Ronnie said if you google the address Jenkins Cafe 42 St. Johns Street
you can either then pick up the yellow person & drop on the map marked 'A' you can walk up and down the street, you can even see what's on the menu!!
Or on the left hand side you will see 'A' Jenkins Cafe, just click on the name, the full address comes up again just click street view and it takes you straight to it :)
There doesn't appear to be a number 42 on 1881c but from 1891c to present census 42 St. John's Street, Colchester the Edwards family are living there Head Henry was a Teacher of Music
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hi annabel
please do get dads service record only i don,t know wether you realise what a great job the pathfinder squadrons did in going ahead of the main bomber force to light up a target i,m sure it will make good reading and as an historic document on a part of dads life .
ronnie i,ve looked up the cafe it looks like it must be nearly opposite where the old bus station used to be , but i don,t remember it as such i can only remember the pink basin on the corner of schergate steps where all the teddy boys hung out oh those heady days of yore , we,ve been down this road before if you remember ;D
best wishes both of you
trevor
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I can feel a little trip coming on.......!I will have a look for a phone number.
Can I just pin you down on 'present census?' 1901 or 1911?
I will have a virtual walk shortly.....thank you so much.
Trevor, thanks for that.I will apply for the records as I have all the nec info.How exciting!
Annabel.
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I can feel a little trip coming on.......!I will have a look for a phone number.
Can I just pin you down on 'present census?' 1901 or 1911?
I will have a virtual walk shortly.....thank you so much.
You will see the telephone number when you have googled the address, No. 42 address 1891,1901 & 1911c :)
**ADDED**
St. John's Street Colchester
Holy Trinity & St. Mary at the Walls
on censuses 1841 - 1881 some have just schedule numbers, others some house numbers - none however have the number 42
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hi annabel
i,m so pleased your going to send for dads service record :D :D :D it may take a while to get it but i hope you,l return here as and when to let us know what is on it ! , also it would be worth while posting a message on the ww2 section of the armed forces part of roots as there are a couple of really good experts on there that may well be able to give you more background info if you give them dads name to get you started .
Hopefully it will open up a whole new avenue of info for you i,m so pleased , at last a lady is taking notice of what i,m telling her ,( take note ronnie ;D ) forgive my teasing annabel .
very best wishes
trevor
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It seems like a logical progression Trevor.Thank you for your suggestion.
As for the Jenkins' Cafe, I think that I'll have the lasagne....
Technology is so wonderful!
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Yes it is .....make that two please :)
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You are on!
Have phone number and will try (soon) when the time is right..... :D
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The internet phone number 01206766641 does not receive incoming calls. :(
Does anyone have a local directory and is able to look them up and see if there is an alternative number by any chance?
Thanks in anticipation!
Annabel.
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My father was in 156 Squadron, according to wedding announcement in newspaper. :D
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hi annabel
we need ronnie now for a col number or better still send her round she,s always up town at the library ;D, but she,s never about when you need her, she,s more trouble to me than all my money ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
will have alook to see what comes up for 156 sqn well done for finding that
trevor
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me again
google ww2 156 sqn that way you,ll find several sites worth a look including bbc ww2 peoples war and this one dedicated to 156 sqn www.156squadron.com .
trevor
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Oh excellent!
One thing I have learnt from all of this, is that I need to organise my info better.I only found out about 156 Sq today, but the info was there all the time.I had briefly read it before , but not taken it in......and please don't comment on that! ;D
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Could this be your father
http://www.156squadron.com/display_awards.asp?pCrewId=1693
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Oh Trevor, that is a fantastic link.Thank you SO much. I now know he was 115 Sq beforehand.
Does anyone know what RAFVR stands for, and also how I can get a copy/look up a citation in the 1944 London Gazette?
(Gosh what would I do without you lot out there in the ether? ;D).
"Since the award of the DFM, this officer has taken part in many more operational sorties.Some of the targets he has attacked have been amongst the most heavily defended in Germany.Flight Lieutenant Jenkins is a most resolute and determined officer who has always displayed an outstanding keenness for operational flying, setting a fine example of devotion to duty."
My heart swelled with pride on reading this.
Thank you so much Trevor.
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You beat me to it....just :)
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A big thank you to you too!!
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Annabel,
When I found the award details and read it I can only imagine how you must have felt
Here's a link to the London Gazette,
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/
happy searching :)
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Annabel,
Just in case you havn't found it yet his names on page 3, I remembered that it took an age to find my great uncle who received the Military Medal with Bar. By using the 124669 number it came straight up - you will be able to print it off
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/36831/supplements/5633
:)
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Does anyone know what RAFVR stands for,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Air_Force_Volunteer_Reserve
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hello annabel
do you see what i mean about just how important and accurate a job they had with marking a target before the main bomber groups came in a true bunch of heroes when you think of all the flak they flew through plus the night fighters looking for them . you have every right to swell with pride at his obvious courage and all his colleagues , i,m truly pleased for you the other thing is where are his medals ?.
trevor
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....locked in the safe ;D
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My thanks go out to both of you for all your help, and everyone else of course!
I was thinking about his medals the other day and whether it would be safe to display them in some sort of frame in the house.I ended up photographing them and putting them back in the safe!
I wish he had known how proud of him I was.
Perhaps he does now :)
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hi annabel
yes it,s a shame that you can,t have them where you can see them on a daily basis such as framed rather than hidden away but at least you have them , another thing i just went back over the posts and looking at the photo of dad and mum and the others in the family am i right in thinking that it was taken outside buckingham palace presumably at his investiture for the dfc .
as to his knowing how proud you are of him he knows be assured he knows !!
trevor
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Thanks Trevor for your kind words.
Yes, outside Buckingham Palace.
I am so lucky to have the photo. :)
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hello annabel
woul it be possible to scan the photos of the medals please only i,ve seem pics of the dfc but haven,t seen a dfm it would be good to see them both as it brings the whole of this post together , it,s just the funny way my mind works in a spiritual way .
trevor
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Aaahhhhh.....the files are too big!
Hangon......
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Just have to downsize photos.I will try with Picasa , but might not finish tonight.
I will try to get the photos posted here.....
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First:
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Second:
I should say that if anyone would ever like me to attempt to improve a photo, it is quite easy on a mac.I don't have any special programs installed, but can still do quite a few useful things! :)
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And the reverse of the latter:
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And just for completeness...
Thank you everyone;sleep tight!
Annabel.
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bless your heart annabel thank you for posting the pics
trevor
ps speak tomorrow ;)
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Aaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I love it when a plan comes together
Well done all of you
Ronnie
:)
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Hi,
Noting concerns regarding having the medals framed and displayed I'm wondering if you've considered buying reproduction medals and framing those.
There is at least one company in the UK who sell good quality repro badges and medals, I should mention that I have no connection to the company. I have a collection of British Army badges and I found the company when I needed two Victorian era Essex Regt badges to make an "Essex set", the real McCoy were far too expensive for my budget.
I have just checked and they are still in business, their site has photos of all their comprehensive range, if you are interested I can PM you their site URL, by the way they also offer a mounting and framing service.
Just a thought ;D
Regards.
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Thank you:yes, I'd like to see the web-site!
I photographed them partly because I did think that I might put together some sort of framed overview of my father's war-time life.Another little project.......! ;D
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Hi a1emslie,
Have sent a PM with the URL as you no doubt know, just a shame that medals have to be guarded and put out of sight just because low lifes can't keep their hands off other people's property.
Regards
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That has arrived safely.
Thank you!
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hello annabel
going back to the begining of your post i,ve been looking for anything army for your grandad hoping that there may be a service record for him but nothing looks likely did find this medal card for a david john jenkins in the army service corps no t4/037471 , now do you have any info on his army service .
trevor
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Hi Trevor,
Unfortunately, I know nothing more about my grand-father.
BUT last night I had an email following an experimental GenesReunited email I had sent out that day.Apparently my aunt, Daisy Grigor , might still be alive and living in Felixstowe!
She was born in 1923.I have never met her (families are complicated, aren't they? ;D).She has children........ :).
She would be Daisy M D Grigor, possible Griegor, but probably the former.Does anyone have a local phone directory so that I could make contact via phone or letter?Better still, does anybody know her?
Last night I wanted to jump in the car and do the 3 hour drive immediately--but I realised that this might not be the best approach!!
Trevor, thank you for digging out the MIC;I just wish that I had more to go on in order to be able to say whether it looks likely or not.Perhaps there may be family info which I might now be able to access .I live in hope.I had thought that I had come to a completely dead end, but perhaps the door is now ajar ......
A big thank you to all of you who have given me so much help and to Ladyhawk who provided a big pointer via PM.
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hi annabel
i,ve sent you a pm re daisy
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Thanks so much Trevor!
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Annabel, I am your cousin John, Daisy's son. Daisy is still alive and lives in Felixstowe. She always wondered what had happened to her brother. Ray contacted me & I have sent you my contact details. For info Jenkins cafe was in Undercliff Road West, Felixstowe. There is now a block of flats on the site. Look forward to hearing from you.
John
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Well John,thanks so much for posting here......
Thank you everyone for making this possible.
John, I hope to phone you tomorrow.
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Annabel,
Wow - wonderful news :)
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All due to the hard work put in by yourself and the other very generous people contributing to this board.
:) :) :)
I wish i could repay you all.
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we have the best people here in essex So Glad you have had so much success
Well Done You! and everyone who helped
;D
Ronnie
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The internet phone number 01206766641 does not receive incoming calls. :(
Does anyone have a local directory and is able to look them up and see if there is an alternative number by any chance?
Thanks in anticipation!
Annabel.
[/ Will call in and see if they have a card
Ronnie
quote]
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Thanks Ronnie.
I still don't know whether it is a red herring or not.
I am still overwhelmed by the fact that I now have 4 'new' cousins.....!
:)
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....I mean 5! ;D
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hi annabel
i must add my congratulations as well let,s hope you find the end of the rainbow now i,m sure that this will open up a whole new chapter in your family history search .
warmest best wishes
trevor
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Thanks so much Trevor....it has been a true voyage of discovery!
Annabel.
PS If you want me to polish the medals and take better photos, I would be happy to do that. :)
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i must add my congratulations as well let,s hope you find the end of the rainbow now i,m sure that this will open up a whole new chapter in your family history search .
ditto :) :)
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annabel yes a polish of the gongs ! and a rephotograph would be good dad will be pleased as well i,m sure .
re johns post as to where the cafe was i go past that spot a lot and will look at it from a totally different aspect now in fact it would have been better to have what was there than the eyesore it is now felixstowe councils over the years have this urge to rid itself of as much heritage as pos and put nothing back to sooth the eye but i,m off on a rant that,s not what were here for .
hopefully out of this whole will come more info on your grandfathers history i probably don,t need to tell you but here goes anyway ;D it may pay you to make up a list of relevant questions in the hope that daisy will be in a position to help you obviously it will be a case of softly softly to start with but with any luck it may be fruitful hope you understand my drift ;), keep in touch please with developements as were all longing to know the outcome of this .
very best wishes
trevor
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Hi Trevor,
I know exactly what you mean.I am composing a list of questions for John, tonight, as I write this!
Now what is the best polish to use, as I have never touched the medals before?
You will have to wait a short while for the photos----but they will arrive here in due course. :)
I think that you are well justified in your rant ;D
Thanks a million.
Annabel.
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hello annabel
well done on the question front it,ll be so much easier to deal with , only i can see tonight being an emotional time as much as anything and normally the old brain goes into free fall till you step back from it and think why didn,t i ask about so and so .
i,ve put a post on the documents and artefacts sec for the best way and products to use for cleaning medals and silver ( i,m thinking of the dfc regarding silver or plated silver ) the last thing we want is to make a wrong decision on something so valuable .
don,t fret about the photos any time will be good and while i think of it when you get dads service record a piece on that would be great as well so you won,t see the back of us for awhile i,m sure ;D ;D .
trevor
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.....my brain is already in free fall.....
;D ;D ;D
Thanks for enquiring about the polish;I shall then be hard at work ;)
Annabel.
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whato annabel
well i may be able to save you a bit of polishing cos the consensus of opinion seems to be to leave them alone unless you feel the absolute need .
hope all goes well tonight ;)
trevor
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So no elbow grease then? ;D
Wonderful to talk to my cousin...lots of puzzles to try to sort out!
Hopefully an imminent family reunion.....
I cannot express my gratitude.
Annabel.
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no you can put your feet up just give them especially the dfc a good buff with a soft cloth and treasure them and think on what dad did and his crew to earn them it was a team effort back then almost a family for a lot of them god bless all who served and still do .
so glad you made contact with your cousin , hope you like jig saws it,ll keep you busy , and a meet up will be good .
it,s always a pleasure to help and even better when light enters the end of the tunnel !
very best wishes
trevor
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Thanks for everything :)
Best wishes,
Annabel.
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I now know that there was a half-sibling Ada (who later married a Charles and lived in the Wimbledon/Putney area), not brought up in the family home.I don't know whether she had the Jenkins surname or where she fits into the timeline.
This may go some way towards explaining why my grandmother disappeared leaving her children behind, after 1925!
I remember my father saying that he was in care for a while, presumably following the departure of his mother.I know that Barnados were not involved (I have contacted them).
My question to you knowledgeable folks, is where would children have been placed from the Colchester or Felixstowe area between 1925-1929, if they needed fostering/temporary care
......and , of course, the big question, might there be any records somewhere?
A big thank you in anticipation of any suggestions, seems woefully inadequate after all the help I have already had.
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hi annabel
well there were 2 homes in colchester on east hill one was for those with disabilities and the other i feel sure was for orphans /abandoned children and i,m again certain it was an all boys home so it may be that one they were there when i was a sprog many moons ago up until the sixties at least i,m also sure one was called east hill house they were big georgian houses ,hopefully ronnie will pick up on this being another colchestrian of long standing ( she,ll kill me for that ;D ) .
will do a google search as well see what if anything comes up, hope you slept well after your hectic evening !
best wishes
trevor
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Thanks so much Trevor.
The matchsticks are in ;D ;D
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There is a lovely picture of the house on line, but little else seemingly....
Do you think that the best way forward might be to contact either the colchester library or the chelmsford records office?Or both.Or the people redeveloping/who redeveloped the site....?
Sorry for the earlier incorrect spelling of Barnardo's..... ;D
Annabel.
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colchester library has a good local history department/section so i,d make that the first port of call .
have you done a google street view then for east hill ?only i,m wondering if you.ve looked at the bit right at the top next to the bus station if so there was a home there i,m sure but if you come back down the hill and look for the doctors and chemists opposite them was /is a redevelpoement of the other home !.
don,t fret on barnardos i always get it wrong ;D ;D
trevor
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Thanks Trevor--I will contact the library.
That's very helpful.I will go for a walk on Google shortly ;D
Annabel.
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whato annabel
have a butchers at this .
adelaide o jenkins
born blofield 1921 jan - mar vol 4b p344
adelaide o jenkins wed charles t taylor
fulham jan - mar 1947 vol 5c p 1221
trevor
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hi annabel
well there were 2 homes in colchester on east hill one was for those with disabilities and the other i feel sure was for orphans /abandoned children and i,m again certain it was an all boys home so it may be that one they were there when i was a sprog many moons ago up until the sixties at least i,m also sure one was called east hill house they were big georgian houses ,hopefully ronnie will pick up on this being another colchestrian of long standing ( she,ll kill me for that ;D ) .
will do a google search as well see what if anything comes up, hope you slept well after your hectic evening !
best wishes
trevor
This is the old lady of Colchester calling in on her zimmer frame lol
Actually the orphanage building is still there I think it is private flats now If you do the google map walk it is at the bottom of east hill on the left hand side almost on the roundabout A really lovely building Funnily enough I look at it every time I pass I dont know why I often wonder if I will find one of my family in it
East Hill House at the top near the bus station was definaly for children with some ind of disabilities My m.i.l was a cook there for almost 20years The building is still there and is an office of some kind (council)
As to finding a particular person I gusee a google on the name might bring a census up
Try the walk and look at the Orphanage though
Regards
Ronnie
x
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Hi
another thought is that a lot of the local children of unmarried mothers etc went to Dr Barnardos in Kelvedon You must remember tat one Trev its a very large building and quite famous
Worth a shout too
Ronnie
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WOW....I just wonder......your skills never cease to amaze me.Now why didn't I find that?(Don't answer that!) ;D
The dates would fit because they were there 1919, but by '23 were in colchester.
John thinks that he might recognise the surname, so I will suggest it to him when we next speak.I will probably get the certificate anyway......it's just too much of a coincidence!
Out of interest, how did you search for that?
I found my grand-father's death record tonight (see I do do some work): d of b 28/8/1894 d 1971 Samford 4b 2841.I haven't found his birth record yet, and looking at the photo, I do wonder if he was older than he said ;D
Another restless night coming up--but I'm not complaining ;D ;D
PS emailed library :)
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Thanks Ronnie :)
ALL suggestions gratefully received.
Many thanks to all of you out there in the ether.
Annabel.
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Interesting that Mabel May had a sister called Adelaide Orton Gamble......... ;)
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ronnie me old duck i knew you,d come up with summat so the home for disabled children was the one next to the bus station i wasn,t sure which it was , but you,ve got me confused as to the building near the round about the one i mean is nthe one with a big garden on the side of it which has now been built on between the old auction rooms and priory street the home it self is flats i believe right opposite the doctors .
as to the barnardos at kelvedon was it prested hall or the what became the spastics ( god i hate that name )centre in the village proper right near the s bend . do you remember the good shepherd hostel opposite priory street that was for unmarried mums as well .
you best go off and have your cocoa now and don,t stay up to late ! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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All this reminiscing.....it's time for cocoa all round, although it might not sit well with the chinese I've just had. :-\
Thanks to both of you.
Sleep tight.
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ronnie me old duck i knew you,d come up with summat so the home for disabled children was the one next to the bus station i wasn,t sure which it was , but you,ve got me confused as to the building near the round about the one i mean is nthe one with a big garden on the side of it which has now been built on between the old auction rooms and priory street the home it self is flats i believe right opposite the doctors .
as to the barnardos at kelvedon was it prested hall or the what became the spastics ( god i hate that name )centre in the village proper right near the s bend . do you remember the good shepherd hostel opposite priory street that was for unmarried mums as well .
you best go off and have your cocoa now and don,t stay up to late ! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
the one at the bottom next to the little post office that has now closed you must know the building I believe it is grey brick Do the walk you lazy thing and yes it was Prested Hall
Ronnie. ;D
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Trev
if you google "orphanage east hill colchester "it will tellyou all about it and there is a lovely picture You will remember it at once
Good night
:)
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annabel
yes i thought the same when i found it but it happened quite often back then to share a name .
well done on finding the death reg that,s another piece of the jig sawso he died in samford suffolk wonder why he was there if all the rest were in felixstowe or colchester .
i,ll stick my neck out and say i,m certain that birth and marriage record is for what you,ve been told was an ada in fact is adelaide o it came up with your dads birth reg when i did a check on norfolk births i hadn,t even read the post about ada then but knew i,d seen the name adelaide in one of the posts so did a back track .
i,ve searched for children of adelaide and charles taylor and found more than all you do is put taylor in the search box for a surname nothing else and in mothers maiden name jenkins and press search it works most times without getting too many hits but this time it came up with loads even when just using either london or middx the best one was this for a linda taylor born march 1948 fulham vol5c p 668 ( that was a good year 48 ) also got others for chelsea southwark stepney islington all around 1948 to 1950 none shew up for wimbledon i had to check what county it came under back then apparently it was surrey but only got hits for surrey s e . oh well off to bed i think will pick up on the morrow from here sleep well my brethren speak tomorrow
very best wishes
trevor ;)
ps a chinese indeed now she tells us , i had to go out and fight a seagull for a crust of bread and he won oh woe is me ::)
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ronnie i,ll do that tomorrow then , youd best wait ready for another journey down memory lane once i,ve seen it as i used to have to walk past the place every wednesday morning about half 9 rain hale or snow !!
t
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whato ronnie why didn,t you say that in the first place about that orphanage yes i know the building now that,s another one i walked past nearly every day ( when i wasn,t pleading with me mum i,d got a bad stomach )on my way to st james infants school and i,ve still got the scars and photos to prove it !!, well if that was an orphanage i never knew it , and i,m sure me mum would have threatened to put me in it if it was ( on more than one occasion ;D ;D poor old soul i did play up back then sorry mum ) well i,ve looked and i,m amazed after all these years to find that piece of info and the fact it was to do with st james ch as well which takes me on to my post last night ! so what was the building opposite the doctors thats been renovated into flats only that had children in it that,s definate unless it was another orphanage or a private school , only as we were at a ch school on wednesdays we had to go to ch at at st james on the hill unless the weather was that bad we,d have a service in school(scott never faced worse weather in the antarctic than we did climbing that hill at times well to an 8 yr old it felt like it ;D ) i may as well get all my reminiscing out the way at once me and my bro and sis were christened at st james and my sis married there as well !
if you do a google street view coming back past the orphanage go just over east bridge opposite the siege house there is a pair of houses in the same style with the upper floor jutting out well the first one with the passage beside it was were we were all born mum annd dad moved into there just prior to ww2 and we lived there till the early seventies next door to us mums aunt flo lived and opposite us at 72 my gran lived and i can run on even more about other relations who lived around that part and other folk !!
sorry annabel for hi jacking your post we usually manage to do it somewhere along the line it,s ronnies fault i have to put her right ;D ;D ;D ;D sooner or later .
hope your refreshed and ready for another days onslaught in the furthering of family knowledge , you,ll be pleased to know i may be off line for a few hrs to day i,ve been told we need to go hopping if it,s not too foggy ( it was as thick as hells waistcoats yesterday till late afternoon) speak soon
trevor
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Dear both, let me say that you can have a well-deserved day off ;D
It is our daughter's birthday and I have decided to zip up to london to see her :) :) :) :)!
So Trevor, do enjoy your hopping ;), and Ronnie-just turn the computer off....
No seriously, thank you both so much...I can't put it into words....
Might have news about at w/e meet up v soon. :)
I am suspicious about Adelaide.If true, I have a mirror image story on my maternal grandma's side ;D ;D! Families!!
Didn't Samford records cover the felixstowe area?
Time to be quiet(me).Do continue with the reminiscing--I love it ;D
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well annabel have a lovely day with your dau and take care zipping about ! , i don,t know about enjoying hopping but i don,t mind shopping in fact it,s quite nice if peeps keep out of my way and don,t keep walking in my path ( yes i,m a grumpy old man now i,ve earned the right for lasting this long ;D ) , oh don,t worry about ronnie she needs to be kept busy it takes her mind off things ( dear old soul ) ;D .
well spose i,d best get ready for the trials of the day , have a nice one , one and all speak soon .
trevor
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evening all
i forgot last night to add a pos death reg for a mabel may jenkins 1969 bristol 7b 227
i,ve had a look for pos david john jenkins using your dates i tried different combinations of name but this sticks out above them all david j jenkins dist bridgend county glamorgan qtr jul-sep 1894 vol 11a p728it might be worth asking daisy or getting her son if he will to ask her if she knows where her dad came from .
looked as well for mabel may jenkins and came up with this again using bernard as husbands first name and it looks to me mabels changed her christian names round .
may m jenkins wed bernard h kennard jul-sep 1948 samford vol 4b p 2623
then looked for children and best pos matches alexander w kennard apr-jun 1958 samford 4b 1457
theresa m kennard jan- mar 1954deben 4b 1018
hope you,ve had a nice day
trevor
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Lovely day; just back (!).
Thanks for your hard work.
Back later ;D .........
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Trevor , you are spot on with the Kennard surname.
I had a message with contact info for Alex waiting for me last night.......
As to the welsh connection :o ...didn't some nice lady suggest that Jenkins had cornish origins?(I'm rather attached to west country parts!).And I did rather like the idea of being related to a market trader.. ..oh well!
Birth cert.for Daisy 1923, 22, Eld Lane, which isn't too far from St John's St., I see.John David J, commercial traveller, stationery.
I will work through your suggestions today Trevor.
Thanks.
Annabel.
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morning annabel
that birth reg for grandad i,m not that happy it,s anyway correct i don,t know why but it after i posted it i wished i hadn,t so don,t take to much credence from it but having said that i looked in the 1911 cen last night and the number of david j jenkins is amazing and virtually all in wales i trawled through them and only i think 2 came up with father and son with the same name and with approximately the right age for the son to the 1894 you posted for david j jenkins .
as to cornish origins i,m with you a nice breed of people in cornwall i,ve a mate i used to work with who,s been living there for 30 odd years now and a little anecdote comes to mind when he first moved down there he was living in a holiday chalet so no phone so on a sunday he,d ring me firstfrom a public call box then i,d ring him back to save his money well this particular sun where nattering as you do when he starts talking to someone outside the box then he comes back to me and tells me an old lady asked him when he was finished to keep an ear open if the phone rang only her daughter was going to ring the box number so would he come and get her if he heard it the upshot is they just hope someones about when they ring so they go and get the person concerned ( well it made me laugh ;D ) also if you want any jobs done it,s a case of oh i,ll be round tues but they don,t tell you which tues there so laid back and the pace of life is completely different to ours he hates it when he comes up country as he calls it , no cornish is best welsh they set fire to your house down there and talk in a foreign lingo behind yer back ( that should stir up some controversy ) .
as to eld lane blimey there aren,t many houses down there so that should be easy to pin point .
best wishes speak later
trevor
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Morning Trevor!
I can't wait to trawl through your suggestions, but I must attack the house first ;D, as my poor husband doesn't know what has hit it this week!!And I was gallivanting in london yesterday, so I can't complain :)
I'm trying to work on photos to incase there is a meet up.
There aren't enough hours in the day......
;D
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I have dug out Mabel May's birth cert and her d of b is 11/7/1894, so no joy there as yet, unfortunately!
Thanks for the suggestion anyway.
Annabel.
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hi annabel
forgive me but your confusing an old duffer with that last post what do you mean about mabel may and her birth date and , so no joy there as yet , i,m presuming you mean the death i found can,t be your mabel may ? , which doesn,t surprise me as it,s tentative at best .
trevor
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Yes, I realise that- and I was grateful for the suggestion.I guess that I had hoped that it was her.... :)
She seems to be quite elusive to me.Even if she reverted to her maiden name and then remarried -or not-there don't seem to be any relevant records.Same for keeping Jenkins surname too.
I suppose that when her death was recorded, it's possible that the year of birth was incorrect, and so confuses the issue ;D ;D.
(I can get very confused :)!)
With any luck, there may be some positive family info soon anyway.
Thanks so much for your help!
Annabel.
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Evening Folks
Got a bit sidetracked recently with some posts looking For Breeds the Bakers
havent been able to get back on here ....However.......
and this is for you too Trevor as I know you like a good ferret
I found this on the 1911 census for Norfol k
Albert Jenkins born 1876 Sea Palling Norfolk assistant naval pensioner
Daisy Jenkins wife of 1 year born 1885 in Nacton Norfolk
living at 116 stafford Road Norwich
They could be related It was the daisy that I picked up on and you did say Grandad was born in Norfolk
I guess we need to check som Norfolk records
Ronnie
Must finish the washing up then i can get back on the case :D :D
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Hi there!
Thanks for coming back--we have missed you ;D
Well I can't wait to investigate your latest theory, but it will have to be tomorrow as I have about an hour's work to do on something completely different....
The good news-a family reunion on saturday with an aunty and cousins I have never met before.Wow :)
As a sidetrack, where was the local workhouse for Colchester?There is a rumour that grannie may have been in there....... (1925-?1927.....).
No luck with the boys' home from the library , but have sent enquiry to Chelmsford.
Have ordered half-sibling's birth cert (should have shares in GRO ::))!
That's all for tonight.
Thanks again everyone for your help.Sleeptight!
Annabel.
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Hi again
We had more than one work house I would imagine living in town she could have been in the one which was made into St marys Hospital which was in the town centre so handy for St Johns street people There was also the large main one at Stanway St Allbrights There was supposedly a small one in St Botolphs Streeet which would have met up with both St Johns street and almost Eld Lane Trevor and I did some research on the workhouses not long back will have another look Not so sure about that time scale though did we still use workhouses then We also had Turner Village and Severalls and Essex Hall next to North Station which housed mentally ill and also unmarried mothers etc Another puzzle coming on i feel .........It was captain Peacock in the Worhouse with an iron bar..lol see im cracking up now haha
Enjoy your meeting i bet you are excited, and nervous at the same time
Have fun Take your camera too
Ronnie
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Thanks for that Ronnie.
Bearing in mind that she had a child in 1925, if she had post natal depression, then he might have managed to get her committed.It's only supposition, but if he had another woman hovering in the wings.....mmm.....
Camera fully charged.Photo album stocked--still have to do some modern ones though.Just have to fill the car with petrol and sort out the satnav!! ;D ;D
Sleeptight and thanks.
Annabel.
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well it,s my turn now for a late runto the winning post ronnie i looked in tna for that albert jenkins navy pensioner thought i,d got him until i looked at the dates so this may throw a spanner in the proverbial
albert jenkins navy no 350204 born sea palling date 10 feb 1873 now you,ve got a birth year of 1876 so they can,t be the same person but could be father and son ! so more investigation if pos tomorrow on that if i can get to me ferret the flaming things got laid up somewhere ;D .
annabel re workhouses that will need a search at record office / library i think as ronnie says we,ve been here before i think i,m right the workhouses were abolished around the end of the 1920,s and it was 1948 before the national health service started lets hope if gt gran was in any of them it was st mary,s and certainly not essex hall severalls would be bad enough tell more tomorrow .
well i hope you,ve both had your cocoa again
speak tomorrow so good night my children
trevor
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Good morning Annabel
Concerning John Frederick Jenkins married dorothy may Hemmings in Bath Somerset had a daughter Helen Elizabeth 4/8/1951 died 5/9/1963
Is this your family
Ronnie
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Yes, that's us.......!
Mummy was born in Bath, and daddy was RAF, stationed nearby.
Annabel.
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I wonder if I have just found Mabel's death?
Fulham 1953 aged 58,5c,726.
The age is correct and it appears that her step-daughter/niece was living in that area at the time.
Wish I had shares in GRO.... ;D ;D!
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hi annabel
well i wondered how long it would take you to find that one !! ;D ;D ;D ;D
yes it certainly appears to be right , so is the step dau /niece adelaide or have you another revelation up your sleeve i,m beginning to think you know all the answers and just dripping them out a bit at a time to have us oldies over ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
trevor
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I have been looking for a long, long time ;D (don't tell me you had found it already..... ;D).
I had nothing to link her with Fulham though,until now.
Obviously, i won't know if this is the correct person, but it feels right (?female intuition--no comment thank you!).I may have to eat my words--anything seems possible on this side of the family. ;)
I couldn't help but wonder how a mother could disappear from her childrens' lives.If it is correct, then it is possible that Mabel heard about her children from Adelaide/Ada (still waiting for cert.)who might have maintained contact by letter with her father.
Another reason I feel happy about all of this is simply that as a student at uni, I used to revise in the Fulham cemetery (no don't laugh! ;D).Wouldn't it be lovely to think that I had walked and sat by my grannie's grave ;D ;D?That thought will keep me happily going until the certificate turns up..... :)
Watch this space....... ;D !
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no i hadn,t found it just teasing you , but i have found your grandads army record at long last and it was so obvious i don,t see how i could have missed it comes under david jack jenkins army no 313675 rasc driver birth place tottenham occupation clerk wed mabel may gamble 18 jan 1919 witnesses adelaide & john gamble permanent address little plumstead norfolk given for when he was demobbed now it starts to get interesting address of wife while he,s in the army 14 crouch street colchester .
NEXT OF KIN LAURA EDWARDS 88 --WELL ST CLAPTON I CAN,T MAKE OUT THE FIRST 2 LETTERS IVE TRIED CO CA CE & OR / NOTHING APPEARS CORRECT ON FindMyPast 1911 CEN USING ADDRESS FOR LOOK UPS WILL HAVE TO DELVE FURTHER , ANY WAY THIS NAME AND ADDRESS THEN CROSSED OUT AND MABEL MAY JENKINS PUT IN !!
on the record search first page on ancestry it gives his residence as 14 forest rd dalston again i,ve tried finding it and so far no luck in 1911 cen just in case he was there at that time . if i don,t speak to you before i hope you have a great day tomorrow and get some goodies for us to help with take care driving and if you don,t stop by the end of the a 14 you,l get your feet wet !! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
speak soon
trevor
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Trevor, words fail me........... :) (Thank you!).
How did you do that? (obviously skill, pure skill ;D)
I am running out of time here as still printing of some certs.Wish I had time for some work on what you have just found.......!
Well folks,rose coloured specs on, matchsticks in,flippers in boot, and........chocks away....!
;D ;D ;D ;D
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morning annabel
no skill i assure you just pure luck and the fact maybe grandad didn,t want to be found till yesterday on the eve of your adventure !! time tomorrow for delving into it ,you just take care driving hope you have a lovely day and come back armed with alsorts of info it,s time to put to bed some mysteries within your family
speak soon
trevor
ps the barriers are up on the end of the a14 diversion in place can,t think of much else we can do ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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That's given me a good laugh before I set off!! ;D ;D ;D
Hope the weather's as good with you as it is here.
Must get everything in car now.......
Thanks!
Annabel.
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yes the suns shining the birds are twittering seagulls dive bombing strangers ;D just another perfect day on the east coast riviera ( who am i kidding but the sun is out for you ! )
trevor
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yes the suns shining the birds are twittering seagulls dive bombing strangers ;D just another perfect day on the east coast riviera ( who am i kidding but the sun is out for you ! )
trevor
you are so poetic lol ;D ;D ;D actually it is beautiful here in colchester really really warm been out doing the garden in between watching the cricket Now I am back to listen to the Col U game
Catch you later :)
Ronnie
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i thought you,d put pathetic in that first bit till i looked again ;D ;D well i,ve been down along the front ( driving that is mustn,t get to adventurous ) and the old north seas like a mill pond only wider, there won,t be any surfing to day ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D .
if all you,vr got to do is sit and listen to col utd get beat i,d best look for a job for you blimey it must be like watching paint dry only more boring ::) ::) ::) ::) well i spose i may as well put the kettle on .
speak soon
trevor
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So glad you two have obviously been having a good day ;D
I didn't come across any dive-bombing seagulls, just blue skies and calm seas....and cream buns :).Yummy!
Extremely happy family reunion :) :) I am still trying to take everything in...little snippets and wonderful photos.....and more 1/2 cousins somewhere.....
Sleep tight everybody! :)
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Something about this has been niggling in my mind all day.....I am sure that I have seen a relevant census record...somewhere.. ;D
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What I mean is...something about your earlier revelation Trevor.... ;D
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so glad you had a good time .........catch up soon
Ronnie :)
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was laura edwards his first wife or did his mother remarry .Or have I lost the plot??
ronnie ??? ??? ???
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well i come out with so many revelations i couldn,t possibly remember one in particular oh dear me no ! ( says he tongue firmly in cheek ) well it,s good your home safe and well stuffed to the gunwhales with buns will speak tomorrow sometime only i,d forgotten i,m supposed to be going out for the day ,so i will exit stage left and toddle off to bed i think .
night all
trevor
ps ronnie you,ve lost the plot sad but there it had to happen sooner or later ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
laura edwards was supposed to be david j jenkins friend full stop when he married mabel lauras name was crossed out as n o k i think you need your cocoa then you,ll be ok ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I think that I lost the plot last week.... ;D
I have just reread Trevor's message and I realise that I read it so quickly this morning that I though that she was 88 (lol ;D ;D ;D)....ie his grannie!
Mmm .....yes...it looks like that.
Can't find a record yet.There was a rumour that he had run off with an officer's daughter.....perhaps they didn't marry....which would be better from my point of view ;D ;D
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ;D
Have a good day tomorrow Trevor--you have a temporary reprieve ; ;)
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I don't understand..... :( ;D
My neurones aren't connecting---no comment please ;D ;D
Someone please explain....... :-[
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in the morning go to bed and sleep it off or in future take more water with it ;D ;D ;D t
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well here we go again , a thought came to mind early on with this if david was just an ordinary working class bloke where would he have got the money back then to start up not only 1 buslness but 2/3 could some of the rumours be true could it be that if he had run off with an officers dau he was payed off to leave her alone if so it was well hidden only his service record is squeaky clean no mis doings in it at all . i know you touched on the issue of where the money came from and that rumour had it he ran a sweat shop if that were true it was probably to do with tailoring as colchester had several companies doing it at that time especially hollingtons being the biggest at a guess what say you ronnie !.
speak later
trevor
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just looked for births london none for 1895 on free bmd but 1896 looks promising ,
david john jenkins march st george in the east vol 1 c p 365
david jenkins june 1896 islington 1b 240
david jenkins dec 1896 islington 1b 301
the next birth isn,t until 1899 on free bmd .
i should have said on last post re the confusion of laura edwards address it reads 88 ( then i couldn,t make out the next couple of letters ) well st i tried orwell st -cowell st but they didn,t fit in the 1911 cen street look up section but i know now this sn,t very reliable so another form of searching needs looking at as it might be one of them !
trevor
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The water worked..... ;D!!
I see, so he was living with Ms Edwards, and then along came Mabel, who incidentally may not have gone into a workhouse as she went to Liverpool and had a daughter Davina ;) (so much for the Fulham theory!?). ;D ;D.Ada appeared but probably didn't marry John, but Gladys did after both Ada and Mabel had passed away...... ???
Well now that's all sorted we must wait for some evidence!
Are there any records for 'batmen' from WW1?I wonder if officer Edwards lost his daughter?
Perhaps you are right Trevor,and he was paid off.That would explain a lot.
It's a bit of a murky story, but for me quite fascinating.
To gain some wonderful people as cousins and an aunty in clearly a close knit family is the icing on the cake ;D
Trevor, have a good day off and enjoy the sunshine which, like us, I hope you have.And you have a breather too Ronnie.
Watch this space.....again ( and lots of thanks :)) ;D ;D
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this sounds like the lead up to that american soap called "soap" ;D ;D
have a good day I need a drink already after reading that ;D
ronnie
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..........I know the feeling.....reaching out now ( ;D).....damn....too early! ;D ;D ;D
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If the time feels right ......................... ;D ;D
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....it is sunday.....perhaps with the roast ;D ;D
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Dear All,
Firstly, thank you so much for your suggestions!
Ronnie, I guess I just wondered whether he might have come back to Colchester because he had started there( I don't know where he enlisted).Wishful thinking .So Colchester Barracks almost a red-herring for me I suppose.
Trevor, I have had a go at the siblings with no results that have been helpful, but perhaps when 1911C comes on to Ancestry this year, I will have another go.
The street in Colchester is St John's Street.In 1925 the family lived at 45.The Jenkins' Cafe I think, was at 42.Again this may be another red-herring for me, but it just seems a bit of a co-incidence, and as I'm clutching at straws anyway, why not have a go at another!
I just wonder if one of my aunts decided to come back to an area she knew after either my grand-parents died, or the Felixstowe Cafe area was redeveloped.I know that both the girls helped out in Felixstowe.One married and may have had a child with a hearing or sight problem.Attached photo is of one of my aunts ?Daisy and her husband.
Hi Ladyhawk.Yes, you are spot on for the Census, and I can trace the Gambles back a fair way, thank goodness.I don't know what happened to Mabel May though, as my mother said that she ran off.......anyway that's another conundrum!I never met any of my grand-parents, and all 4 have complicated stories!
I had thought that my father's parents might have been living in Blofield at the time of his birth 1919.Recently , I have wondered whether Mabel May (grm) simply returned to her mother's for the birth.
Occupation of grf:
Jan 1919 driver RASC.His father "gentleman!' Both same name (grf and grgrf) and listed David Jack.
Dec 1919 John Frederick Jenkins' birth cert-informant mother, lists father's name as John David--commercial traveller in fancy goods.Late Driver RASC.
Aug 1925 Mabel May Jenkins' birth cert--informant mother, lists father's name as
John David--Draper (master).In fact I hadn't registered this last fact, so it's good to realise that.
I have spent some time looking at a cdrom of Kelly's for 25/26 norfolk/suffolk/essex, but haven't found them yet.....back to the Drapers now!
I do not know when the family moved to Felixstowe and I think that I shall have to go to the Records Office one day/week just to get another point on the timeline.
My grf and my aunts were alive in the '70s.
Thank you all so much for your suggestions.
Annabel.
PS I see you have posted again whilst I have been typing.Thanks for your hard work!I will explore what you have come up with further and I will apply for the other aunt's b cert, just to know her initials, in case there is an unusual name there :)!
Hi Annabel
When did you last have a sighting of David Jenkins
I found a David Jenkins born aged 29 .Drapers Assistant left england on 5th August 1926 on the Barrabool official number 145424 Bound for Melbourne Australia
Could me a real red herring as he gives his last address as in Wales
ronnie
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Hi Ronnie,
I am 90% sure that he was purely uk based.However, with the drapery link, it's possible that there was a family link.Worth bearing in mind.
Somewhere in my memory I have a thought that on a 1911C there was a Jenkins clerk the correct age.....Perhaps I am kidding myself, and it was on a 1901C.So frustrating ;D ;D
Yes, it is similar to a soap opera!!I can hardly believe it all really. ;)
It has been lovely to have a day off today apart from some photo editing; I hope that you have had a good day too.
Thanks for the suggestion,
Annabel.
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Hi Trevor,I hope you've had a good day!
Please can I ask you exactly where you got all the info about the service records?
I have the anc. ref to Dalston road, but where and how did you get the rest?(ie explicit instructions needed ;D).
That's all for today ;D ;D ;D (you've got off lightly!).
Annabel.
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Thought for the day ;D
.......I can see that it may be difficult to pin down grandpa John!
I have always thought that in the Buck Palace photo, he looked older than 50/51.
From Trevor,he enlisted in 1917.
If the rumour about his being a Batman is correct, could he not have enlisted at the start of the war?Then run off with the' officer's daughter.'Presumably classified as AWOL.Wanted to re-enlist, but just doctored some of the information in order to lay a bit of a smoke-screen ie make himself younger (perhaps he had a babyface at that age ;)-slightly difficult to imagine ;D) and just change the John/David/Jack around a bit.
Could this have been possible?
That then opens up a few possibilities ;D ;D
Anyway, back in due course with certificate info, when it arrives ;D
The housework really does get in the way............ ;D ;
Have a good day everybody!
Annabel.
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Hi Trevor!Did you by any chance locate his MIC on your hunt?
313675 David Jack.
I can't find it atm..... ;D ;D
Hope the sun is out with you and you're not being bombed by seagulls ;D
Annabel.
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morning all
just reporting in firstly the service record is on ancestry go into military sec put in david jack jenkins and he comes up first abd only one with that name , i,ve just been through it again it looks to me that the address for this laura edwards is 88 oswell street can any one find it as it doesn,t show up on the 1911 cen ,on doing a google search an oswell st , farthing fields london e1w comes up but my knowledge of the area doesn,t stretch that far is it the right area ? .
have also looked for d j jenkins in 1911 cen without much luck just one very tentative record
thomas lloyd jenkins 59 occ draper born pencorreg camarthen shire
elizabeth 52 wed 35 yrs
annie may 32
david j jenkins 25 occ assistant ( ? )born lambeth
gertrude stealey jenkins 22
address 194 stockwell rd brixton
as to this batman rumour i,m sure i,m right in that if he had been one and had done a runner then it would be on his record certainly if he,d gone awol it would as i,ve seen one before who got 7 days ctb for being on church parade with dirty boots , my thought if anything is that maybe as he was in the clerks office if he had access to his own record possibly he substituted a bad record for a squeaky clean one , but then why bother it made no difference as i see it he wasn,t in long enough to get a pension his record would not be needed for any other purpose other than for the armies benefit he didn,t know that donkeys years down the line we,d get access to them it doesn,t make sense , if he joined up at the beggining of the war then did a runner it,s possible he could have been court martialed and thrown out but why run the risk of being caught especially as he wasn,t going to make a career of the army unless he was until he married , a thing to look at is the time line between enlisting 1917 and his getting married in 1919 only it doesn,t look as if he knew mabel in 1917 else why put laura as next of kin , so when and how did he meet mabel ?.
this whole begs more questions than answers !.
over to you now
trevor
ps i,m with you on his age in the pic but that flat cap doesn,t flatter him much that,s for sure !
just about to post this when your last one came in now this raises another question like you i can,t find a medal card for dj now i did wonder if as he was a non com would he have been entitled to any medals certainly he wouldn,t have got the 1914-1915 star possibly he would have been entitled to victory medal and the war medal the question needs to be asked on the armed forces sec , but then so does this little gem i tried firstly using all names d j jenkins rasc 313675 nothing then took out the dj leaving jenkins and the rest still nowt so took out the rasc and jenkins just leaving the number and up comes this mic for an edward w higgs r e spr wr/313675 now the question is would the army use a number twice even though it has the wr in front of it to designate the difference , it doesn,t look right to me ( but what do i know ;D )so this needs looking into as well
trevor
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....not another can of worms Trevor? ;D.....I shall be on the valium soon ;D ;D
I have always said to friends that you shouldn't investigate family history unless you don't mind what turns up.I have a sneaky feeling that I might have to eat my words(--should slip down with the right bottle though ;D ;D)
Medal card of above suggested person:
Corps Regiment No Rank
Royal Engineers WR/313675 Sapper
Essex Regiment 23017 Sapper
Machine Gun Corps 23552 Sapper
Royal Engineers 173164 Sapper
I assume that date order is top to bottom.
To me this just doesn't make sense, in that I can't see how this would have worked.And how would you ever engineer a particular regt no?
I will look into Higgs a bit more just in case he died early on in the war.Perhaps the REME lot had a different set of numbers.....
Oh---George Pitts also
Corps Regiment No Rank
Northamptonshire Yeomanry 145093 Private
Royal Garrison Artillery 313675 Private
How very strange.I thought that the regt numbers were unique.This is from NA.So there are 3 people with the same regt no..... ???
And Jenkins doesn't pop up when you put the number in.
Ok so that might all be a red herring...(fingers crossed).
At 1911 he would have been 17(or older ;D), possibly living away from home, and might have escaped the C...
I think that you lot have been fantastic with all your help and suggestions.I'm sure that you have other people to help, so please don't feel that you have to continue.I have learned more than I ever thought I'd be able too, and I can't say more than a BIG thank you :) :) :).
Once again if anyone needs help in the east sussex area or possibly fife, I would be more than happy to lend a hand, and I am happy to help with photos (corrections etc)too.
I reckon that I owe you all big time.
I will post the cert info as it comes through, just to keep you hooked.....
Annabel.
;D ;D ;D ;D
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...I just can't help myself ;D
Clapton , London is a bit further north than Farthing Fields.
There is an Oswald St there.
There is an Oswell House , which might relate to a previous st/rd., in Farthing Fields slightly south.Both north of the river.The fact that Clapton has been put down makes me think that it is possibly Oswald street and that perhaps he wasn't talking very clearly on the day ;D ;D ;D
No other great suggestions! :)
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hi annabel
well you,ve looked further than i then to find that mic for g pitts that in it self is very strange as like you i,d have sworn that a mans army number was unique and for life in fact all the old boys will tell you that the one thing you don,t forget is your numberespecially come pay day without it you got nowt ;D like i said these questions regarding the records need posting on armed forces sec for an answer from the experts .
leave the valium alone it,s addictive ( a bit like this caper i suppose) there,s far better stuff than them and don,t pop pills and drink , just drink ! ;D ( says he who doesn,t imbibe ) , as far as finishing it,s your call if you want a rest that,s fine i,m still out there ferreting about for other others in need .
best wishes
trevor
ps just looked for oswald st 1911 and there is an 88 but laura ain,t in it just some geezer and his family who is an officer for the lgb workhouse
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Trevor, any info would always be welcome--I just don't want to appear to be greedy when there are other folks out there in need too....... ;D ;D
I will post about the nos. in due course.It is strange, that.
Shame about 88....
There is a Laura Edwards b 1898 Clapton though.The parents run a pub, but not in Oswald St of course.....Sounds just the sort of young lassie--or 'friend' as he calls her--to fall victim!
Ah well, until the next post....... ;D ;D ;D
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Hi you guys
More coals to the fire
Been into town had a look at 14 crouch street It is the left hand portion of what was the old Reagl Trevor will know what I mean Will have to look at an old map next time I go to the Library and see what I can find out
However Looked on the Electrol rolls for 1923 and living at 42 crouch street
is Claude Josiah Edwards
Catherine Eliza Edwards
and Florence Kate Freeman,,,,,,,,,,,,curiouser and couriouser ??? ???
ronnie :D
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whato ronnie
well if it,s that end surely 42 must be above a shop only there aren,t any buildings i can think of built as houses till you get to balkerne hill mmmmm very interesting !. cor haven,t bin to the regal for donkeys yrs
i never forget qeuing up outside when zulu was first out and the old commissionaire came out and said there were 2 seats left right at the front so me and my mate had them blimey what a fiasco it,s the first and last time i,ve seen zulu warriors standing about fifteen feet tall and yelling war cries though stereo speakers making more row than concorde taking off no wonder i,ve got tinnitus oh never again mother oh dear me no (just another little anecdote from my colourful life ;D ;D )
trevor
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Gosh that's something to think about Ronnie!
As to the zulus....words fail me ;D ;D
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whato ronnie
well if it,s that end surely 42 must be above a shop only there aren,t any buildings i can think of built as houses till you get to balkerne hill mmmmm very interesting !. cor haven,t bin to the regal for donkeys yrs
i never forget qeuing up outside when zulu was first out and the old commissionaire came out and said there were 2 seats left right at the front so me and my mate had them blimey what a fiasco it,s the first and last time i,ve seen zulu warriors standing about fifteen feet tall and yelling war cries though stereo speakers making more row than concorde taking off no wonder i,ve got tinnitus oh never again mother oh dear me no (just another little anecdote from my colourful life ;D ;D )
trevor
tried to imagine it as living accomodation there are two floors upstairs that you could live in but on the electrol rolls there were names for all numbers so I am thinking they must have been pulled down Do you know when the regal was built. It is actually an eyesore at the moment Such a lovely building but because they would not let Peris leisure do what he wanted with it he says it can stay empty for all he cares
will check on when it was built and look again
ronnie
Also there was no record of any absent voters or voters by the name of Jenkins in Electoral rolls 1919 20 21 22 23 24 I checked cavalry barracks too How odd
Wonder if he was in the mctc trev ???
ronnie
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Apparently a regimental number is not unique to one person!
;D
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i,m with you now ronnie you mean 42 was actually part of what is now the regal ?! typical local council ,s all round by the sound of it as you say a lovely building .
mctc well if he went in there no wonder he looks older than he is ;D ;D ;D
but it would be on his record if he had .
as to the zulus words didn,t fail me when we came out believe me ;D ;D ;D i knoew stanley baker and michael caine were big stars but not that ------- big
trevor
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ps the regal cinema opened in 1931 apparently, google cinemas col it,s on seax
t
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update ,annabel do you know the singing hills golf club ! only thats where the theatre organ that was in the regal cinema now resides check this site for all info on the life of the organ what a small wrld . www.theatreorgans.co.uk/features/singinghil/opus1840.html ( well i thought it was interesting ) ;D
trevor
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hi Trev
Yes I thought that was all very interesting too. Which proves my theory I suppose that the building there now was built in the 1930s
Also Annabel I dont know if we are lookingin the right place but There was a Laura C edwards born in dec 1966 in Blofield Norfol and also a marriage of a Laura Elizabeth Edward in sept 1896
perhaps she was closer to home than we thought or maybe his mother???
Ronnie
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It's so sad--the link didn't work for me, but I looked at the general site and listened to some music....what a lovely site! Very nostalgic ;D
Those were the days ;D ;D
Yes the Edward's have links to Norfolk, but how they fit in with my F/H I just don't know ???
It's all one big puzzle to me ;D ;D.
i suppose that John could have lodged in london-by chance-with Laura Edwards who might have been related to the Colchester Edwards, hence a later move to Colchester post marriage and my father's birth.
It does seem an amazing coincidence, but coincidences do happen ;D.
i will have a look for a Jenkins Edwards link in due course.......and the Blofield happenings.
It would be nice to get a certificate tomorrow, but probably unlikely.Midday post folks-on a good day ;D
Sleep tight everybody!
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To add to this..................
No 42 Crouch Street in the 1933 Kellys Directory is Scott Bros(Colchester) Motor Garage.
This was between Maldon Rd & Wellesley Rd. It's not there anymore.
Not sure whether this helps or hinders.................
Cobbs.
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yes cobbs i was aware of the scotts garage i worked on the the extension for it .
trevor
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.....all info gratefully received ;D ;D
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To add to this..................
No 42 Crouch Street in the 1933 Kellys Directory is Scott Bros(Colchester) Motor Garage.
This was between Maldon Rd & Wellesley Rd. It's not there anymore.
Not sure whether this helps or hinders.................
Cobbs.
Hi Cobbs
Yes you are right I remember the garage and yes it does help because it proves our theory that the original houses have gone Thanks for that all info is good
Thanks
Ronnie :)
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No relevant post today >:(
Just a thought ..........
1901 C Wales:
Cardiganshire, Gwnnws Lower,
David Jenkins b london 7yr, grandson, with Evan Jenkins Head 62, wid ,and his daughter Margaret 23, single.
Perhaps Margaret is his mother....perhaps he returns to london to escape his start in life, using his middle name.Perhaps his father's name was unknown so he just used his own name+ gentleman for father's trade on his own marriage certificate.
Oh, by the way, there is a John Jenkins along the road, wid. :o
Mmmmn....might go some way to explaining how he related to women.
Yes, yes, yes----I know----lots of ifs and buts. ;D ;D ;D
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hi annabel
blimey you,ve got a wilder imagination than i have there,s an awful lot of perhapsesssss in that ;D ;D ;D
trevor
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as far as i can see there are only 3 birth reg,s for london between 1890 - 1898 for a david john jenkins
1892 lambeth apr-jun 1d 459
1893 pancras apr-jun 1b 63
1896 st geo in the east jan-mar 1c 365
!!
trevor
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annabel i,ve been going back over all the posts to see if we,ve missed anything and something caught my eye in one early post you mention an ada something about he probably didn,t marry ada before mabel or was it when laura edwards popped up !! where does ada fit in or am i missing something !!
trevor
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I know, it is all very bizarre......
I have asked the family for what they think is his date of birth.
Army records reaffirmed death records, so it's not as if the last wife got her facts wrong ;D
But the dates could be out by a year or two I suppose......nothing leaps out of a search though as you have shown Trevor.So frustrating ;D ; ??? ;D
Trevor have just seen your last post.It goes Laura (army unm),Mabel gr/m (mar), Ada (stepm prob unmar surname ?Bloomfield), Gladys (mar)-after Ada's death. Those are the ones we know about ;D
Ada brought up the family after my grandmother disappeared.The 1/2 sibling Ada/Adelaide you picked up on was with the children a bit when they were small-one photo of 4 seen-but essentially the next generation (my saturday cousins) didn't know about her until after grpa's death.
Now, I suspect that is as clear as mud..... ;D ;D
(I knew you'd appreciate my latest theory ;D)
Sleep tight everyone! :)
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well your not wrong it looks on a par with hieroglyphics to me or is it a code from bletchley park do i have to get me own enigma machine blimey i wish i hadn,t asked now ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D .
well this may be something or nothing a
david j jenkins wed ada herriman jan mar 1916 st george hanover sq vol 1 a p1128
ada herriman born jan mar 1892 st george hanover sq vol 1 a p415
and may be relevant or not hugh d jenkins mums maiden name herriman edmonton sep 1920 vol 3a p 968
as you say good night one and all i need to lie down in the dark now after that answer ??? ;D ;D ;D
trevor
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Hi Trev
You have had more luck than me I have searching everywhere ha
Having said that your Ada Herriman listed with her parents in 1911 15 Arlington Street which is a good area Her father Harry is listed as a Lodgings housekeeper with wife Emma helping in the business
Ada is a civil servant Good Job eh? Wonder if Harry owned the house and maybe that is where the money came from??
Trying to think outside of the box
Back to David Jack was he called up or did he volunteer when the war broke out Thinking aboout his age here
Ronnie ???
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Well it's certainly worth bearing in mind.........and I may have to get it the cert at a future date if all else fails......
There is a John christened in 1896, son of David (dairyman) and Mary.The only reason I mention it is that Tottenham is on the A10 into London as is Dalston, and this christening (I think) took place at a church not too far from that main road.No other Jenkins family christened at the same time.
Yes, you've guessed, clutching at straws again ;D ;D
Although he looks old for his age-John-just possibly, it is life that has worn him down.Perhaps his father suddenly died young and he had to add a few years in order to get a job etc ;D
That's all for the mo :) :)
Ooh....I see other thoughts are floating through the ether............
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If nothing new comes to light with the certs this week, perhaps I ought to order that one??!! ;D ;D
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ie trevor's marriage--so to speak ;D ;D
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Have printed out service record, but difficult to read ???
How do I know whether he was called up or volunteered?
Form says "For men deemed to be enlisted...."
Enlisted 1916 service from 1917.
I need to 'doctor' the images.... ;D
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Well the post has come.....
Am I further down the road to discovery? More stuck in a boggy mire ;D ;D
Ada/Adelaide, and indeed I have a photo of the 4 together as I think I have said before,was daughter of John and Mabel May .......
I cannot find an early death record for her .So Grannie took one child with her, which begs the question about parentage, in spite of the certificate....
...and increases the chance of the death cert record being correct,when it arrives.That bit would make much more sense (thank goodness ;D).
In the early photo, the girls look extremely similar.A later photo of Ada and I wouldn't spot the similarity.I'll have to go over the photos/scans, carefully.
I really shall have to write a book ;D ;D
You lot only know one side of the history;the other side is not dissimilar, and took years to untangle!!
So where does that leave me?Yes, you've guessed, stranded in London :)
;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hello again
little did I know when I picked up your thread that morning what we would uncover and what a journey we would embark on ;D ;D A Magical Mystery Tour
from Norfolk to Essex To London and all corners inbetween ha
and how many drinks we would need ;D ;D
Still on the case .catch you later ....... Perhaps Trev can tell us how we can find out if Jack volunteered or was called up ??? Hes usually good at military things
Ronnie
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I didn't know either Ronnie ;D
It has really been amazing for me...
5 new 1st cousins and possibly 4 more ;D ;D ;D ;D, ....somewhere!
I do know though, that I could not have done this without help from you and Trevor + a few others.
I really am so grateful! :) :)
Annabel.
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evening each
i,ve been back over all posts again twice can you clarify why you said that david john had the same first names as his father or where it came from .
also where did the info come from when you posted jan 1919 dvr rasc father gentleman , in the list of info on dj jenkins .
as to the army record it looks like he was called up as conscription started in march 1916 and as far as i can make out he joined 11/ 4 /1917 and was transferred to army reserve on 27 / 12 /1919 .
trevor
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ok smart alec I knew you would know 8) 8)
ronnie
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Hi Trevor, the info came from the certificate for my grandpa's marriage to Mabel May Gamble.
David Jack...David Jack, gentleman. Blofield 18/1/1919.Same source again for the profession.Cavalry Barracks, Colchester for his address. Batchelor.
I have asked the family for any info whatsoever, but none has been forthcoming so far....
I will post here if there are any more revelations!
Thanks so much for trying to help ;D ;D
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hello both
heres another couple of bits ready for tomorrow i went looking for davina jenkins and found this
davina m jenkins oct-dec 1937mums maiden name gamble fulham 1a 375 so then looked for a marriage for her
davina m jenkins wed michael j bulcock
jan mar 1959 blackburn 10 b 817 then looked for children these were the only 2 out of the first 100 that had a mum jenkins
roger a bulcock apr- jun 1964 gosport hants 6b 651
brian robert bulcock apr jun 1967 bury lancs 10b 1122
also looked for adelaide o gamble she wed harry rice apr jun 1925 blofield 4b 441
couldn,t find any children that would easily match pos then they never had any ( that,s stating the obvious ;D )
sorry ronnie some of us have got it and some haven,t but whatever it is i wish it would go away ;D ;D ;D
annabel i see that clears that up only i hoped it may lead off on a tangent some where if you can see any small snippet however insignificant it may be any thing to keep us focused .
any old how i think it,s nerly that time me heads beggining to get heavy ( it wouldn,t if it wasn,t so big hey ho ) will speak to you girls annon don,t stay up to late now night each
trevor
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Oooohhh, as usual you have managed to tempt us with a little morsel.........
What a star!! ;D ;D
Now tomorrow I am a bit busy folks--I am really sorry.So just put your feet up both of you, eat some of those lovely cream cakes which I now can only dream about, and avoid the seagulls ;D ;D ;D
I promise I will post if a certificate turns up.
Fulham as a centre of activity beginning to get v interesting......
Well done Trevor.Neither child on Facebook.
PS If it helps, I have a public tree on ancestry--although at this rate it will soon be going private!! ;D ;D
Sleep tight everyone ;D ;D
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Night both of you :)
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A quick interlude in a busy day...I hope you lot have got your feet up and the cream cakes out ;D ;D
I think Davina may have married 2nd time around a David Goldie 1979.
The cousins thought she married a David.TBC
Roger A Bulcock seems to be up in Bury and works for 'Tru.'I have a post code for him so could take a chance and write a letter with a vague address but proper post-code.He's on Linkedin, but I don't have the right membership to be able to contact him.....
Harry Rice had 2 children, John and Margaret, born in Leicestershire.That's from a GR contact from years ago when I was trying.....very trying, I know, I know ;D ;D.I haven't confirmed this although initial hunt seems ok.
That's it for now.............. ;D Hope the sun is shining with you............. :)
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hi annabel
well i,ve had a day of faffing about no cakes involved though i bet you got yours from the bakers in trimley thinking about it ?! your correct about davina she married david goldie qct dec 1979 bury lancs vol 38 p0361
also looked up these births john a rice mum gamble jan mar 1923reg dist leics
margaret i rice oct dec 1924 reg dist barrow s 7a 221
jean m rice mar jun 1928 reg dist blaby 7a 68
well looks likely you weren,t trying enough but then we haven,t finished yet ;D ;D ;D ;D
trevor
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I expect that I will have my nose to the grindstone very soon---probably later today! ;D ;D
From the family, it sounds as if my grandpa was the father...the daughter concerned sent him a christmas card every year.(Known after death).I don't think that would have happened unless he was the father.
So I now have 9 1st cousins ;D WOW! It's going to take me the rest of the year to recover!!
Until later......sleep tight.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Early post delivery..... :) (rare event in this neck of the woods ;D)
Yes we are all on track: 1953 Fulham Hospital Mabel May Jenkins of 82, Colehill Lane,Fulham died of a stroke.Post mortem, no inquest ie she died unexpectedly, but not under suspicious circumstances.
Death reported by her sister A O Rice, 12,Vincent Road,N15.
Well, the addresses might possibly be useful.It's good to have supposition confirmed.
But the 'best'-if you can call it that- bit for me. Fulham Hospital was knocked down, and Charing Cross Hospital built, which is where I was at university.........!Talk about coincidences, twists and turns ;D ;D
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have you still got your nurses uniform ;D ;D ;D ;D do you still do hospital corners making the bed ;D ;D ;D.
it,s interesting her sister was the informant and not her other dau davina !! even if she was living up north , or am i reading too much into it
trevor
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Yes, I wondered about that too.....until I realised that Davina was only 16 years old.
Ada was 32 and already married (Fulham) and possibly living nearby.I wonder if Davina then moved in with her, or even with her aunt.Perhaps the house was in turmoil at Mabel's relatively young and unexpected death, and the aunt wanted to spare the daughters.There may well be a story there....
I suppose that the logical next step is to try to find out where she was buried---hopefully fulham, but possibly closer to her sister's address.If anyone has any good suggestions for how to go about this, please let me know.Presumably there might have been a notice in the local newspaper, and perhaps I should start with that avenue.
Ah Trevor.......I just love it when men assume I was a nurse ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D But I can still manage a hospital corner, even though I was never taught!!(He he!).
;D ;D ;D
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Can I pick your brains( ;D)?
I think that I have found the contact details for Davina(my 1/2 aunt), who will be in her 70s.Obviously, I can't be 100% sure until I make contact.
Do I write to her, or phone her?I don't want to give her a dreadful shock, poor woman.
Mmm...I can't quite make up my mind.....any advice, would be very gratefully received.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;
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hi annabel
well it looks like mabel did things to cause upset right to the end if davina was 16 and losing her mum as the other children had earlier when young ok she didn,t ask to fall off her perch but you get my drift i hope .
if you google fulham cemetery it gives you several local cemeteries and who/how to go about finding rellies .
as to the hospital corners i notice you side stepped the question of the uniform nicely ;D ;D ;D ;D , this is what testosterone does for you although i need a top up nowadays ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D .
brain picking time , looking at it obviously for a quick answer is to ring her but like you say for someone that age a letter would be less of a surprise to take in , i know i,m sure what you want to do but the letter would be safer that way she can talk things over with her family before making her mind up wether she replies to you just means waiting ,
unless you can find a contact number for one of the children then a phone call would be ok
trevor
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Hello people
You have been busy........For my two pennyworth I would write a letter which as you say she can disuss with any family members. Actually nowadays 70 is not old as such so hopefully she may just be excited but obviously cautious! :)
I am a bit lost at the moment as to who if any we are still looking for Do you still think we are looking for a david jack and his father David Jack
Ronnie :)
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Hi Ronnie,thanks for that.Of course, I do not know that she is still there-if you know what I mean........
I will think on it for a bit longer.I cannot get anything to her for the weekend now anyway.
As for Jack the Lad, I got lost about 20 posts ago-lol- and really don't know how to proceed.Nothing more from cousins at present.I guess that part of me feels that our only chance is to get a nugget from the family;hence a concentrated effort to find someone else.
Last saturday's cousins thought that he was known as John.They all called him Pop, so I don't think that we can be absolutely certain.My father was John, and the only boy so that adds a little weight.Basically, your guess is as good as mine ;D, but I would probably plump for David John (and David John)accepting that Jack was probably used when he was young.Now that that is as clear as mud, I suppose that it's onwards through the records......I certainly haven't found anything that really leaps out yet ;D ;D
Please don't feel that you have to continue with this!!
I will continue to post as any little pieces of info come through, and am very grateful for any suggestions at all. ;D ;D
Hope that the weather is still good with you :, and thanks for your help :)
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Hi There
yes our weather is still beautiful and I will continue to dig for you
I know how frustrating it is as I am still trying to find the details of my ggg grandmother is aberdeenshire I have hit so many walls but I leave it a bit and go back every so often They dont seem so helpful on the scottish boards
unless I am just unlucky :'(
Anyway speak soon Something will turn up I am sure
Ronnie
;)
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What was her name Ronnie?My husband's family were from Aberdeen and around there.Send me a PM-you never know there may be a link ;D ;D!! (Now that would be a coincidence!).
Trevor seems very quiet(----do you think I have offended him?) ;D ;D
Perhaps the seagulls have won.......or the cream cakes ;D
;D ;D ;D
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Hello
Just sent you a pm so you can feel more at home about your rellies ;D ;D
and No you havent upset Trev He is too sensitive for that He would have asked you Bless him . Hes probably along the front eying up the talent all this nice weather Or her indoors has him painting ;D ;D
He will probably be on later with some more goodies for us
Ronnie
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Ooooh....have just found Facebook connection to 4 close relatives.
Watch this space......... ;D
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Quiet that,s not a thing i,ve been accused of for a long time , no i,ve been keeping me eye on you 2 ;D while looking at some census records trying to see if something shows up for dj or his family .
trevor
ps shall i have the eclair or the cream puff ( seems like a nice boy ;D )
pps it,s too dark for talent spotting did that earlier while in town it,s one of the last pleasures when you get to my age ;D
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See what I mean ........Speak of the devil he is sure to appear ;D ;D
ronnie
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like you trev I am going to backtrack on all the info and just list the relevant facts and go from there he is out their somewhere waiting to be found
and something very obvious is staring us all in the face :-\ :-\
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Yes, I'm sorry---there has been a lot of woolly chat, mainly by me ;D ;D
But, I have just sent a message to one of Ada's daughters.I can see that she is in touch with 2 siblings and Davina's husband, so just possibly, she may reply to my message, and more leads may be forthcoming.
By the way, I can really recommend the cream puff.It was soooooooooo delicious ;D ;D
I'd better be quiet now--I wouldn't want to distract you two from good work!
;D
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where did adelaide get her middle name Oster from
There are Osters in Norfolk are they rellies?
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it,s the cloven hoofed little devil again ;D
i,ve looked for births for a dj jenkins on free bmd and between the years 1896 to 1905 there are only 3 possibles born in london
david j jenkins mar 1896 stgeorge in the east 1c 365
david j jamieson ? dec 1897 west ham 4a 34
david j jenkins dec 1901 west ham 4a 130
so if the army record is correct and he was born tottenham / dalston can one of these be the one or going further back apart from one birth record for a david j jenkins born in derby this is the next one in the list for a david j jenkins june 1892 lambeth 1d 459 which may be why he looks older than the date he gave for his army record on the pic .
trevor
ps theres a lot around mersea island as well ronnie !
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They are oysters you wally ;D ;D ;D
Just found an entry for John Jenkins single age 20 Private Infantry Militia Born Leyton stationed at colchester barracks in 1901 ???
im going to bed now Got to watch the cricket in the morning
ronnie
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This is from Ancestry ...............
Name: David John Jenkins
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1896
Baptism Date: 15 Apr 1896
Father's Name: Edward Jenkins
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Jenkins
Parish or Poor Law Union: Stepney St Mary
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Birth date....................14th Jan 1896.
Fathers occupation.....Waterside Labourer.
Address......................63 Lucas Street.
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Thanks everyone for your suggestions, including Cobbs :)!!
My grandfather and his father have the same name, if we can believe the marriage certificate.The more I think about it though, same name and 'gentleman' for his father's occupation , sound a bit suspicious ;D ie a suitable thing to write down at a wedding ceremony, if you didn't know......Also 'gentleman' can cover a multitude of sins.
Mmm...the Colchester Barracks one is very interesting...I wonder....
The other one I have found is: John David Jenkins,1892,Oct 1/4,Hackney.1b, 471.
It appeals because it would be the right quarter allowing for an august birthday.If he changed the year--say his father died young and he needed work--then he'd only have to remember that rather than a completely new d of b.
.......yes I know it's John David, rather than David John ;D ;D, but who knows?.......(certainly not me!)
Anyway, that's the thought for the day.....I'm off with the m in law today, but back later, and just hope I get a response from a london cousin.Have messaged two of them.
I haven't sorted out the Oster/Orton connection yet......in due course ;D
Rather a miserable day in sussex today;I knew that it was too good to be true 8)
Back later!
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It's so sad--the link didn't work for me, but I looked at the general site and listened to some music....what a lovely site! Very nostalgic ;D
Those were the days ;D ;D
Yes the Edward's have links to Norfolk, but how they fit in with my F/H I just don't know ???
It's all one big puzzle to me ;D ;D.
i suppose that John could have lodged in london-by chance-with Laura Edwards who might have been related to the Colchester Edwards, hence a later move to Colchester post marriage and my father's birth.
It does seem an amazing coincidence, but coincidences do happen ;D.
i will have a look for a Jenkins Edwards link in due course.......and the Blofield happenings.
It would be nice to get a certificate tomorrow, but probably unlikely.Midday post folks-on a good day ;D
Sleep tight everybody!
Hi people
Like I said I do like a good ferret about.Found this listing which again seems interesting and worth a further investigation
John Jenkins married Charlotte Edwards December 1879 in lambeth ID 720
Im on the case ;D ;D
ronnie
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whato ronnie
that looks good for a pos link for dj jenkins mum and dad , well done .
see eng took a hammering in the cricket .
trevor
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Ronnie, this is looking v good.... ;D ;D...and sounding good too ;D ;D ;D ;D
I am off for a quick ancestry fix now, armed with new info.....!
How very exciting!!
No reply to my Facebook messages--probably gave them both rather a fright... ;D Hopefully a response in due course.
As for hammerings---what about the boat race?
;D ;D
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Hi you two
Couldn't get on Roots at all yesterday Kept saying site too busy
Yes England took a real pasting Never mind the Ashes was the important one to me
And Col U won trev 5-1 perhaps we should play against 9 men all the time ha ha
Yes I was pleased with that Jenkins Edwards info but will keep on digging
we are like the three muskateers ...........all for one..one for all ;D ;D ;D
catch you both later
Ronnie
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morning girls
yes i had probs last night getting access to roots same thing re busy so did noone go out last night or are they just fed up us hogging the limelight .
5-1 never mind 9 men they must have been playing with the lines men and ref on there side as well ;D ;D ;D
forgot about boat race what happened there as there,s nothing in any of the papers online this am , yes before you ask i am too tight to buy one ;D ;D ;D , musketeers ahh i must be porthos then the big chubby one ;D ;D ;D ;D.
i was doing a check back trying to find a connection to the orton name but didn,t come up with anything , annabel have you looked down the line following the adelaide name back if so i won,t bother posting results of it ! .
speak soon
trevor
spose you,ve both got the old roast and yorkies in the oven by now ?! :P :'(
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Hi Trev
Found this on ancestry what do you think? living at 3 Berkely road Tottenham
1901
David J Jenkins 28 b stamford hill
Ada M jenkins 27 b hornsey
John H Jenkins 3 b tottenham
Ada M Jenkins 1 b tottenham
still clutching at straws ???
ronnie
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Morning both!
Yes, roast in the oven with the potatoes and parsnips.Can't wait ;D
I didn't think that my post had made it last night, but it must have squeezed though the ether.......
After a few hours on ancestry, with no real results, I can see that this is still a complex hunt.If there is a link, it is a complicated (surprise, surprise ;D).(On re-reading that, I can see it's a real understatement!!).
IF there is an Edwards/Jenkins link, then I suppose the mere fact that my grandpa put Laura Edwards as a friend and next of kin might hint at a more remote relationship......Ok she could well have been the latest female acquisition, but say his parents were dead or had moved away (or forces abroad), and he had lodged with a distant relative, it would not be unreasonable to describe her as friend ie not aunt or 1st/2nd cousin, but a relationship more removed or just too complicated to describe on paper.
Ok that's the thought for the....day...and of course it doesn't get me anywhere.....yet ;D ;D
Trevor, I don't know why the Orton and all variations, name was used as yet, but most of that side of the tree is easy to trace back to the 1700s.To be honest for the last few years I have been working on my husband's tree, with only the occasional dip into my side as I knew very little about my 4 grandparents.I have had a look for the said connection before and failed, but I haven't looked as hard as I could, I feel. :o
Well the sun has popped out, thank goodness.It was very cold on the boot fairs fields today........ ;D
Trevor, you're the only one of us who hasn't posted a family tree enigma here!Feel free ;D. 3 heads are definitely better than one........................ ;D ;D ;D
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firstly ronnie
that looks promising if only as a pointer that a jenkins connection in tottenham was about in early 1900,s as it ties in with dj,s army record stating place of birth tottenham will check that address against 1911 cen to see who,s there then ! .is there any more jenkins in the area ? .
annabel
don,t forget that it may just be with d j that he just fell out with parents , or even by using lauras name was a way of distancing him form all relatives as i would have thought it more likely to use a relative for nok as it is it was probably a closer relationship than just friend was the case as you say ,pure speculation of course and one we could run with for ages i suppose and not get anywhere .
as to my family tree i didn,t even know a facility existed for such or do you mean on here now !! between us , don,t confuse an old geezer as it doesn,t take much at the moment ;D ;D ;D
enjoy your roast i can hear slavering from here ;D ;D
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yes about four more families
search on ancestry for jenkins no first name and tottenham
ronnie
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hi ronnie that family in 1911 had moved to 1 a fourth ave bush hill park edmonton so after that did what you said but for 1911 and 113 names come up for jenkins in the tottenham /edmonton area so they weren,t all in wales , unless they were on a charabanc outing of couse ;D ;D ;D
trevor
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i told you you were a wally ;D ;D
put a year in that will cut them down ;D ;D
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Definitely on a charabanc outing I feel...........there's certainly enough of them then ;D
The roast was great, and hubbie is recovering upstairs .......
Perhaps all the Tottenham lot should be plotted on a big piece of paper--I have some, and might try this week, just to get an idea of who is moving where and when, as similar names keep cropping up and no-one leaps out of the page.
Yes, Trevor, I think that you could be right about him wanting to distance himself.That would fit in all respects together with the lack of 'keeping up' with relies post wedding.Either that or a singleton and parents died young.
I am sure that we are all happy to help with Trevor's family history..... ;D ;DIt would probably have to be via PMs though, or the moderator might step in .... ;D ;D ;D
The sun is shining here.............. :)
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just to add to it i put in london for a county and 4,ooo odd came up you,d better make that a roll of lining paper and a gross of pencils to write that lot down and cross check , better still i wouldn,t bother doing it ;D ;D , it keeps going cloudy about here but still quite nice ,calm at least sea must be like a mill pond i ,d say with only a slight breeze for the sailors , here ends the shipping forecast .
as to my family i,ve only got a couple of queries both for parents of gt grandads one in london tother in norfolk.
trevor
ps just off to wrestle a seagull for a crust of bread for me dinner ( i don,t have lunch i,m not posh enough ;D )
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.......at this rate, we'll have the violins out...... ;D ;D : a full orchestra soon......?
Might pass on the 4000 then.....(but it might be worth doing the Tottenham lot).
Could have a breather and move on to other family trees??Ronnie has a query, I think.....then a blitz on yours Trevor.....?Just a thought ;D ;D
Anyway, must have a quick prune and plant in the garden.
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Thought for the day...... ???
I have been looking again at that 1894 grandson stuck in Wales, born 1894, David, with his grandfather Evan and Evan's daughter Margaret.It is easy to trace the family back in Blaenpen(n)al to a point where, on the 1871 C there is a David (I haven't looked at the other siblings)with mother Margaret, father Evan and siblings Philip and Evan.
This older David moves to London and marries a Mary(or marries and moves), and in 1891 they are in Shoreditch,2, Fanshaw St., with children Sarah A, 4, and Margaret E,1, b Bloomsbury.Father is a dairyman.
In 1901 it looks as if they are in East Ham, Essex,113 Green Street.Father is Provision Dbi (?).The birth places are slightly different, but could be classed as close enough I think to previous records.Children:Margaret E as before 1890 St Pancras,William D 1891 Hoxton,Evan J, 1895 Bermondsey,Elizabeth M, 1900 East Ham,a servant and someone to help the father.
No overlap with 1994 David.
Am I on to something?Could the grandson just have been with grandfather to help him as he was widowed?
My brain is frazzled.Any input/ thoughts on this much appreciated. ;D ;D ;D
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There is a JohnJenkins baptised 21/6/96.Father David dairyman and mother Mary.Living 7 Sheldon Street.
Islington.No birth date, frustratingly!Aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ;D
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i think you,l find there,s 2 like that i found them the other day , have you seen this one as well d j jenkinson mar 1896 st george in the east 1c 365 , where did you find that one .
t
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I found it on the London,England Births and Baptisms part of the ancestry birth search, putting David and 1894 in.
My logic ( ;D) is that the census for 1901 only seems to have that boy with the correct age.He is in a household where he might have been staying with his grand-father for some time.Perhaps the grand-father believed that he knew the child's correct age, but he didn't, and the error just got continued with time.
Mmm...I have a suspicion that they had a William David in 1891, and I can't find an early death...so maybe that all goes out of the window ;D ;D
Do you know if one can view the actual registers anywhere now?The FRC doesn't exist now does it?
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I feel that we have all explored the obvious and less obvious avenues here now, and I am truly grateful for all the input on this board, without which I would not have made such fantastic discoveries!Ok, so the elusive grand-father is still elusive, but I now have a much clearer idea of the family dynamics, and to know that I have 9 1st cousins, I still find completely amazing.THANKYOU ;D
I will post if further information comes my way, which is useful to the search.
I have ordered one birth certificate, but I realise that I may not be able to know if it is correct.I suppose that I am keeping my fingers crossed that it will have the correct birthday, but ((presumably) an incorrect year.
Trevor(I will put new photos of medals up soon...... ;D) and Ronnie, to you both, such a big thank you.I can't put it into words......If I can ever help you as much as you have helped me, please ask.
I feel the need to move on to new enquiries, and give my brain a rest from going round in circles.....well it does that anyway, without much encouragement ;D ;D, as you have probably already realised!
;D ;D THANK YOU AGAIN ;D ;D
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Hi Annabel
So glad you are still about I can understand you wanting to move on for a while Its that Wall effect isn't it :(
I did that with Amelia which is why i try to help others It makes you look afresh at tracing people and you meet a lot of really nice people on this site and always helpful and theres Trev too of course ;D ;D ;D
I will keep all your people in mind and continue looking
Come back and let us know how you are doing and how ou are enjoying all those new rellies I am sure lots of people have enjoyed your journeys lately
Take care and if you manage to find my amelia I will be ever grateful :)
Regards
Ronnie
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morning annabel
it,s always a bit sad when a long running post comes to a conclusion either in the fact that all avenues have been covered and answers found , this has been a major time of discovery for you and i feel i can say for my part and ronnies too that we are more than happy to have been in on the hunt , and yes a time now to move on for you and as ronnie says keep us posted as and when new thoughts or info comes up were always here for you , i,ll miss the banter as much as the importance of the searching , you take care and remember there is an end to the rainbow it,s just a matter of looking in the right place at the right time and as yet the time isn,t right but we will all find the answers to all our questions one day .
i look forward to new medal pics and if you feel half as proud of your dad as i do of mine (and he did nothing heroic just took part in the whole scheme ) we all owe them a debt we can,t pay but as long as we remember them were half way there .
god bless annabel hope we speak soon
trevor
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Well the hanky's out for the parting of the ways...... :'(
No more cream buns or seagulls getting in the way........ :'(
......but the memory of 2 great people I don't even know, who have gone out of their way to point me in the right direction-or the wrong direction ;D-depending upon which way you are looking at it ;D ;D ,all of which has been hugely helpful and sometimes inspirational in more ways than one.
...Amelia is next on the agenda ;D, together with another little F/H foray for a relative ;D ;D
Medals soon....watch this space ;)
xx
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As promised!
They are not quite as clear as I would have liked them....and no comments about the bits missed on polishing please! ;D ;D
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...
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..and finally...
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hi annabel
thank you so much for those pics and the close up,s that brings out the detail very well .
bless your heart
trevor
ps what bits did you miss ::) ::) ::) i,m keeping quiet i know when i,m on a warning ;D
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Sorry to butt in on your temporary interlude on this topic........ ;D ;D
Well, today's post has brought John David Jenkins b 28/8/1892, son of Ellen Gooch and John Evan Jenkins,journeyman printer.In this family there is a transcription error for the 1901 C---John J rather than D,which could explain a lot. ;D
Hackney district, with address 31,Albert Road, not a million miles from Tottenham.
So what are your thoughts folks?We have the correct birthday, but incorrect year and a John Evan Jenkins as father, rather than John David.
If this is correct, then it's no wonder none of us got anywhere.......!
Is the birthday just a happy co-incidence, I wonder?if only the father had been John David........ ;D ;D
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Hello again
Well one wonders what will come up next!
If the birthday date is correct that is an amazing coincidence :o
I had a quick look on ancestry as I have an Ellen Gooch in my tree born in colchester but its about 1852 ....so much earlier but I did jump for a minute ;D ;D ;D
Ellen seems to have been born in Haverhill suffolk which we haven't come across before have we?
I'm on the case again................
Ha
Hope all is well
Ronnie :)
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Ronnie, you are so sweet!
(It would be amazing to discover that we were distant cousins ;D ;D).
The 1901C says Ellen was born in Hackney, but other records point to Suffolk, which is what it states in 2 other public trees.She is meant to be Ellen Mary according to the trees.She might be related to the Peck family also.
I cannot find a marriage record-yet-;I did think that perhaps his parents might have married after( grpa )John's birth, and that this might be the reason for the year change.
If suffolk,that might explain why grpa ended up in Felixstowe.No other link to Haverhill as far as I can see.
Still hunting for the moment.........watch this space! ;D ;D
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Hi Alemslie,
Harking back to the medals, just remembered a while ago seeing a cleaner advertised on TV in which you can dip objects made of metals such as copper and silver, it was claimed to remove tarnish etc without removing any metal. If my memory serves me correct it could be bought in shops such as supermarkets, quite inexpensive, it was of course advertised on Aussie telly but if it's sold here you can bet your bottom dollar (or pound) it's in the UK also.
Lord knows what made that thought pop up when reading the latest in this topic, perhaps it's my brain sending a message that it's not really dead after all. surprise, surprise. ;D
My brain now working again has reminded me of a method I used to clean a few silver and copper coins many years ago, put some water in an aluminium saucepan put the objects in and leave for a while. Can't remember how long it took except it wasn't long, I can recall that when I was told of this method I thought what a load of hogwash but it worked and without removing metal. Try it with a two pence piece that's brown and see for yourself.
Regards
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Oh thanks for that......how sensible.I wonder if the equivalent is silver dip?
As a child I used to leave coins in tomato ketchup, but I thought that this method might not be a good idea for the medals ;D ;D
I'm just trying to remember from my chemistry days, whether an electrolytic process might be harmful or not......
Hmmm....I don't think that those neurones are connecting any more .. ???
As to the potentially new revelations,I can see that I haven't benefited much in terms of research.It's going to be a slog back through the Jenkins family.... ;D ;D
(I have made contact with a potential 2nd cousin though in case there are any family resemblances :-\ --still clutching at straws!).
;D
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Good morning Annabel
Hope all are well
A quick question to mull over If John was stationed at cavalry barracks why was Mabel living in town? Makes me more inclined to think perhaps they met in Colchester I would have expected wives only to travel with their hubby if there was married quarters ??? I am still on the case
Also whilst on the subject of Hackney ......the mind boggels the way i jump from place to place ;D ;D......There was a laura Edwards died in Hackney March 1919 aged 63..........more coincidences?
ronnie
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and another thing........... ;D ;D have you got granpas death certificate if so who was the informant and does it give any next of kin etc
Ronnie ;)
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Hi Ronnie, I wish I could help you as much as you help me!
It would be good to be able to work out how they managed to meet up.Her father was a railway plate layer though, so I suppose that it's not inconceivable, that some rail travel might have occurred....it might have stretched the finances a bit at that time though.... ;D
Married Jan 1919, demobbed at end of year close to when my father was born.
I am not sure of the date of her mother's death.Perhaps being pregnant she wanted to be near her husband, although my father was born in Blofield, the home village.It is strange.Perhaps she met John through Laura Edwards...I suppose one can hypothesise for ever.....
I am posting the bit on the service record about Laura Edwards.What might be friend is very difficult to read because it is crossed out.See what you think.Anything smaller gets very blurred!
No other thoughts for now..........(probably just as well, I hear you all yell ;D ;D).
Just seen your new post.......he died in 1971.I thought that I had this, but can't seem to find it atm, which is strange....He had remarried about 3 years beforehand to Gladys Hales...... ;D ;D ;D
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Can't attach atm...... ;D
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At last.....
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Perhaps it is just friend crossed out and replaced by wife....seeing it up here seems to clarify the writing a bit.
I haven't got grandpa's death certificate.....I obviously thought that with a newish wife and quite a few family members living close by, that it wasn't top of my list.Perhaps I should, just for completeness.. ;D
I shall be going back to work soon at this rate...... ;D ;D
No other thoughts at the moment... 8)
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Hi
I thought it looked like Husband.............. ???
ronnie
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Hee, hee. Me thinks that you are just trying to confuse the issue! ;D ;D
(It's murky enough as it is...... ;D).
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I think the answer is there........ if you go to page 54454 on his Service Record on Ancestry.
It clearly states that....."Next of kin Friend... Laura Edwards 38 Orwell(?) St Clapton.
Which is crossed out.
Hope this clears up the mystery.
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oh Cobbs thank you so much ;D ;D ;D but we do love a good mystery
Are you in Oz
Ronnie
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No Ronnie.......what made you think that ?
A lot closer than you think.
I live in CO2..............
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as you say a lot closer i am c04 ;D
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Hi Annabel
Gonna have to go to the library again There are two things puzzling me
A John D Jenkins died in Colchester age 28 Jun 1912
Also There was a John Jenkins born March 1840 who I think is the one listed on the 1901 census living at 63 leuthall road Hackney with his wife Elizabeth and Daughter Ada
Might take a while as there are lots of parishes but I think I will concentrate on the areas we know ie St Johns street etc ;D ;D.i feel a drink coming on ;D
Ronnie
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I find it's quicker to search the Essex County Standard in the Interments as they give the parish.
You only have to search 12 issues maximum.
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Thanks Cobbs for that...it was just so indistinct.....
It's amazing how much a signature can change over several years too....... ;D
Anyway, more unnecessary muddying of the waters, I suspect.
The use of the word friend might of course imply deceased parents, so Ronnie, your find of a John D Jenkins dying within a suitable time frame is very interesting.....I may have been maligning the poor man beforehand, and who knows, perhaps he didn't have any siblings..... :o
As an aside, there was a link on Facebook which showed mathematically that for people to have a greater than 50% chance of sharing a birthday, you would only need 23 people.This did NOT take into account the year, only the date, but it's an amazingly small number....Jenkins is quite a common name too.... ;D ;D
As a further spanner in the works, although probably much more of a red herring than anything else, I noticed that a tree user on ancestry had imported some of my photos on the Jenkins side.I couldn't easily see why so I contacted them.They have a Norman Jenkins b 1913 Wandsworth in their tree and also my Jenkins link through the Norfolk Gamble side.The connection between their Norman and my Jenkins crowd involves lots of in-law relationships and jumps between generations.There isn't an obvious connection that I can see easily through ancestry, but perhaps it's just a name to bear in mind.... ;D
Well, the sun shineth in sussex, and I hope it does with you lot too........ :) :)
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Hi Annabel and Cobbs
Yes I agree with your comments and I too had noticed people who had copied your photos but the families did not seem to fit yours......odd
and yes I did intend to look at the papers Cobbs. I worked for the gazette for some 20 odd years so I know roughly the layout and I was hoping for a bit of a write up or something.....fingers crossed
Annabel I know this is a stupid question The picture of John he looks like he should be in his 70s and this is a serious comment I am not being facetious
Are you sure it is your dads father and not his grandfather? Just a thought which I am having too many of ;D ;D ;D
Back to my cuppa ahhhhh
Ronnie
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Hi Ronnie,
It is definitely not a stupid question.....keep them coming!
I agree with you completely about the photo....it has always made me think....like you, probably a bit too much!I have compared him with the stepmother, far left on the photo, and thought that he looked younger than the theoretical one year difference.But when I went to Felixstowe there was the attached photo, where, although not that clear,they appear to be similar in age.
'Your' John Jenkins died before the birth of all children--it would be marvellous if he were a family member!
I think, on balance, my John is the father.He worked hard for the whole of his life running a large cafe.Perhaps his wife leaving him, had a worse effect upon him than I give him credit for.Who knows, perhaps Mabel took the child he was closest too.That part of the story we shall never know........
Of course, he may be older than we realise,as already explored.... ;D ;D
I have sent the line up to the person who is a grgrandson of John Evan, just in case his father spots a family resemblance.....I live in hope ;D ;D ;D
Enjoy the sunshine---I hope this isn't our summer........ ;D
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I of course meant older..... ;D ;D ;D
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Hello again
Well not a lot of concrete help I am afraid
Could not find any thing in the papers but did come across this which only makes life more ...........interesting...... might be a good word!!!
John David Jenkins 19th May 1912 (which is probably why I couldn;t find him it said 28/061912 on freebmd) will have to go back again was Buried at Colchester Cemetary grave number 8359
Now comes the interesting bit...... Parish of Deceased St Marys Islington
"Buried in Unconsecrated ground" ..which usually means a suicide doesn't it?
42 st Johns Street in 1912 Electoral Rolls was owned by Mrs Emma Edwards
Claude Josiah Edwards rented a bedroom on the first floor for 15/- pw including board
at 46 St Johns Street Was Daisy Ella Edwards
I dont know what I learned really :D :D
What do you think?
Ronnie
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Well Ronnie I think that you are a star for going to all that trouble!
You have added to the library of information, even if it is not necessarily useful right now.
Unconsecrated can mean he committed suicide or was of another faith, I think.
I have just emailed the cemetery to see if they can clarify things....
What does this mean?Well, I don't know.There weren't that many JD Jenkinses, as we well know.Hackney and Islington go together....mmm.... ???We don't know his age, so if the cemetery comes up with something, that might possibly help.Could he be my grgrpa?Or possibly a cousin?
So the Edwards family owned a fair bit of property.We still don't know if they were related---I haven't found anything yet, but am still looking.I suppose that grpa could simply have lodged with the family either by chance or because of family friends/relatives.He must have been fond of Laura... ;D
If grgrpa died in 1912 and his wife previous to that, then perhaps Laura was as good as next of kin, if there were no siblings, or no' suitable to name' siblings.
All supposition of course...but the death is very interesting....I hope that we hear some more on that from the cemetery.I can feel another trip coming on....... ;D ;D ;D
No other great suggestions tonight, I'm afraid...... :)
(Just a big Thank You).
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sorry he was 28 :)
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\hi again
I will go back and look in May Newspapers for info as i only searched June and July So we may find something more Those properties in St johns street were all houses then soI wonder when Jenkins cafe first opened I will have to investigate
Well off to bed now Will ponder awile I am sure ;D ;D
Good night
Ronnie
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So he wasn't my grgrand-father....that little theory goes out of the window ;D...
Emma was the mother of the other 2 Edwards that you mentioned...
No link to Laura unless that was Daisy Ella of course.... ;D..I think that Daisy possibly married in 1916...Frank Fairclough.
That all gets us nowhere----surprise, surprise ;D
Sleep tight ;D ;D
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Morning Ronnie!
I have just heard back from Colchester and they say that the grave ref needs a letter in front of it.It was obviously doc incorrectly on the library ref.....They have looked for the obvious, but will now do a search, which is very kind of them.Results ? next week.This could drag on for years ;D ;D
I am ploughing through the Edwards family...and the 1818 father Henry John was a sergeant in the Essex Rifles.Another Edwards family, not linked yet, has a connection to an army officer....
Stlll working on this as Emma had 10 children (that I can find so far).Sadly a lot of the boys died before middle age....I digress.I haven't looked at the girls properly yet.No Lauras are leaping out at me......
Anyway......where are we? Mmm, Ronnie, do stop when you have had enough.I feel as if we are scratching at a brick wall with a teaspoon!!
I hope that the sun shineth with you.......enjoy--it might rain next week ;D ;D ;D
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......Building up a substantial Edwards family tree ;D ......but still no sign of Laura.I wish that the 1911C was out on ancestry ::)
I'm not too sure whether finding her, or the Edwards link is going to really help the search overall though.....but then we are clutching at every passing straw ;D ;D ;D
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Hi annabel
just come back from the library and I am hoping this is not one of your rellies
Checked on the cemetary the only reference with a letter is AWent and referred back to the newspaper and found out John David Jenkins killed his girlfriend Theresa Anderson and then cut his own throat It was a very big story and I have printed them off but there are about 15 pages you will need to pm me an address and I will forward them to you
He had a brother Jenkin Jenkins Have you heard of one in your family?
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Gosh, how terribly sad.....What a tragic tale...
I have come across Jenkin Jenkins in the searches, but had never come across the name before otherwise.
I am glad to know the story Ronnie, whatever the link.......
Thank you for double checking the grave ref.
In fact, thank you so much for all your help.
Enjoy the sunshine ;D
Annabel.
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I am now beginning to favour John Evan Jenkins as the father of John David, even though he is not John David as reported on my grpa's wedding cert.
The birth address for the John David son of JE is exactly in South Tottenham, as per service record for my grpa.
The JE family then moved down the A10 towards Dalston, where a sibling was born in the late 1890s, and the address is about 100 yards from the address give on my grpa's service records.All a coincidence?Perhaps....
I wonder whether my John might have changed his dob because his parents weren't married at the time.He was the 1st born, as far as I know.However, I cannot find a marriage ref for them.Perhaps they didn't get married......I still think that the Ellen Gooch for the JE family(mother), was born in Hackney rather than elsewhere.I have no evidence to the contrary atm in spite of ancestry family trees.Not that it makes any difference anyway, I still can't find a marriage!
If anyone can, that would be fantastic....... ;D
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HI Annabel
Did we ever ponder over david J jenkins b Hampstead Hill and Ada M Jenkins born in Hornsey John H born in Tottenham b 1898 and Ada M born in Tottenham
The father is wheelwright body builder What was your thinking?
Ronnie
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Hi Ronnie,
I hope that you are well.Envelope caught today's post ;D
I haven't looked properly at him, but need to....As usual I have got caught-up with something else---a local gravestone hunt ;D ;D
Anyway that's another story.I suppose that I thought I would wait until hearing back from a potential 2nd cousin to see if a family resemblance could be spotted.No meaty news from any cousins.It feels a bit like the proverbial brick wall....you have been so helpful at looking at all possibilities.
I will now look at your David.......the correct one is there somewhere.I expect that between us, we know him quite well!!.
;D
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Hi Annabel
Envelope arrived today and I have sent it back next day delivery so it will be with you tomorrow ... :)
I have read it so many times Will be interesting to see what you make of the couple
I feel so sorry for John I think he could have been a really nice young man
Dont worry we will find your gggd and my ggggma Think positive ;D ;D It will get us through tese walls
Ronnie
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You are a star Ronnie.
Think I might owe you some more stamps ;D
I will start work on the alternative solution tomorrow.Have been clambering over graves today ;D ;D
Annabel.
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whoever were you looking for ;D ;D...and no you owe me nothing Thanks for the sachets they were beautiful :)
Did you find who you were looking for
ronnie
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Trying to find a grave for a canadian lady(well, her relative of course ;D), buried around the corner from me.
Another rootschat!
Couldn't find the headstone sadly-the graves weren't reference marked.Lots were unmarked anyway....Sounds like a disaster, but not really, as took some pics, and I just might have missed it.If I can get a graveyard 'map' I could pin point it.All these projects ;D ;D
Looking at Your David J,wish he was mine as relatively easy to go back a bit--must be the only one of the Jenkins family to be like that ;D .Going to work a bit more on him, but feel he probably isn't the man.....a bit young and wrong initial although father correct.
Made contact with another Hackney Jenkins descendant whose ancestor ran a Fleet Street printers.Interesting bearing in mind that the favourite was a printing machine minder.....Difficult to find out more in that direction though.
Nearly time for bed; hope all well with you.
Looking forward to reading tomorrow's missive.
Sleep tight!
Annabel.
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Gosh Ronnie, that is an amazing story.....
I was a bit worried when he was quoted as being about 30 in case he could've been my grgrpa, but fortunately that was soon clarified!He could of course, be a cousin and I can think on that.
What a story.I do wonder if the jury would reach the same verdict today though....What did you think?Forensics would be a great help today of course.
Mmm...there was obviously more to the mother than meets the eye too.And then there was the demon drink...and debt.....and jealously, so we are told, BUT no quarrelling seen/heard on the day.Something doesn't feel quite right somehow...
If he took the razor, then there was intent, but the slight cut on her neck doesn't ring true.She would have screamed and been heard and then he would have had to put the tie round after that.Difficult to imagine...
Anyway, we shall never know.How terrible for the 2 families.Such a sad story........
Good news-I found the grave for the other enquiry :)
I think I owe you some more stamps Ronnie ;D ;D
Ooh, the sun has popped out at last.
Thanks for all your work.
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Hi Annabel
So glad you agreed with my thoughts The mother was" definately a stranger to the truth" and John and theresa sounded a very polite and respectable couple Even down to their hats ;D
I found the letters very enlightening and the fact that he had only had the one job since school told you he was a loyal person
I wondered if when he got the telegram he thought the loan sharks were after him and not his Boss The mother didn't say who was looking for him did she?
All very sad. :(
Anyway back to your sunshine So glad you found the grave See one good turn deserves another Well done
Take care......and no stamps please :)
Ronnie
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Scotland next week---perhaps a Fyfe or two?That would be nice ;D
Annabel.
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Hi Annabel
Another for you to check out
1901 census
Catherine Jenkins married age 32 born Aberdare glamorgan
John son born 1892 sheringham Norfolk
Frederick son born 1894 Sheringham Norfolk
William son b 1900 Fulham London
living at 20 basuto road Fulham
Fylham.Norfolk .....John.Frederick lots of coincidences
Ronnie :)
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That's interesting Ronnie.I must have missed that one along the way.
I shall have to investigate...... ;D ;D
Time for bed--too much fresh air today ;D
Sleep tight and thanks....still mulling over the cuttings!
Annabel.
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ah bless..........goodnight
:)
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Hi there!
No joy with Catherine, I'm afraid, as there are rather a lot of them born in Aberdare at around the same time.
Of minor note, one family emigrated, and another was married to a Jenkin Jenkins.......Otherwise, nothing that has leapt out at me....
I got very excited-briefly-when I looked at a family tree match with Edwards and Jenkins in it.I have emailed the owner, but I think that it's very unlikely that anything will be forthcoming.
At this stage, I think that the only way forward as cousins/contacts have no further info, is to write to Davina up north (I have a postcode), and perhaps to drop a line to The Jenkins Cafe in Colchester.I do not have any current London addresses for cousins.
If anyone has any other ideas, please do post.
Ronnie, you ,Trevor and the others have been real stars and beacons of light along the way.
A big thankyou.
Annabel ;D ;D
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For anyone still following this ( ;D), today I made contact with Davina( and her husband), my father's half sister.
Yet more cousins ;D ;D ; ..........!
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Hi There
Thats brilliant news because every person has a ittle bit of info tucked away
we may still find jd
Ronnie
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........so eleven 1st cousins in total who I never knew about!My mind is still reeling.... ;D ;D
JD is still elusive....
Have a good weekend everyone!
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Well, I can see from another thread, that I might have to give you lot a brief update....(nice that this thread has been missed ;D)....
Now where was I? No real news on the John David front.At the moment I still favour JDJ from Tottenham, with the correct birthday, but incorrect year.I have made contact with a descendant of a sibling of that JD, but no other info is forthcoming in that direction.That family is difficult to follow too and the father is John Evan when my grpa had put John David/David John as father's name on own marriage cert.(Perhaps he didn't really know).
I worried about my grpa looking older than he should.Last week a rellie by marriage who had met him told me that he looked the correct sort of age--similar to his father in fact-- and they were only a year apart.That was helpful.
I'm not sure that the Hackney records are absolutely complete, and have thought about going up to the LMA and also to Hackney for a browse around--probably later in the year.Needle in haystack job.
Hopefully 1911 will be on Anc. soon as I want to hunt for a John David/David Jack 1894/2 who is a clerk and probably lived in Hackney ?Dalston. With any luck he will be living near the rest of the family.
Today I am following up on the fact that grpa was said to be a master draper, on one of the marriage certificates.An email will be pinged to the livery company in due course....but I would be amazed if they had ever heard of him ;D Thanks to cousin Alex and his wife Anna for suggesting that.......I cannot tell you how lovely it is to be in touch with some 'new' family members.
I am not in touch with all my cousins, but all bar two know that I have tried to make contact.This would not have been possible without this board together with you Ronnie and you Trevor. THANKYOU (again ;D ).
Back in scotland--peace perfect peace.Just recovering from cough bug, otherwise would have called in on Davina on my way up yesterday.I shall have to wait until next wednesday instead.......watch this space ;D
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HI
Nice to hear from you Sorry about your cough bug.Enjoy Scotland .catch up later
:)
Ronnie
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Hope all is well with you.
Happy hunting! ;D
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Hello again
Any luck in finding John David yet
I keep trawling lol ;D There is a John David Jenkins listed as an MD I was looking on Old Bailey on line and he was the Doctor witness to a murder at Bethnall Green Just a thought There are a few John Jenkins too both witness and suspect Ha Ha Hope you and yours are well Let me know when you find him
Regards
Ronnie
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Hi Ronnie, I was thinking about you and your lady on my return (again) from scotland yesterday....... :)
I hope that you are well.
Am I any further...probably not!
I am still in favour of 1892 John David being the man, provided that he was given the name John David at birth.There is no-one else on ancestry and FindMyPast who fits.Of course, the records may be incomplete.If he was only John and Tottenham was only a guess by him on enlisting, then there isn't much hope at the moment.
Against this (apart from year not being 1894 and father not being John David but John Evan) is that a potential 2nd cousin showed his father the Buckingham Palace line up, and the father didn't see any family resemblances at all.Mind you the father's mother apparently had a big argument with her family (she would have been John's sister) so may have had little contact....
I have been lucky enough to meet my lovely aunt Davina now, but she has no further information, but I did obtain a photograph of my grand-mother and her sisters.Wonderful.
I had nothing positive back from the Drapers livery company in london--a long shot as he had called himself a master draper.
I have had a quick delve into the London Met Archives, but will have to go back to check the electoral roll for the early war years later in the year.
Although the 1911 is there on ancestry, I can't really accurately search it yet--hopefully soon though, which might shed a little more light.
That's it in a nutshell ;D
It's so sweet of you to ask; he's still that elusive grand-father!! ;D
Enjoy the lovely weather.Any other queries your end I can delve into?
Have a fabulous weekend.
Best wishes,
Annabel.
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Hi Annabel
1911 census has a David John Jenkins aged 38 metal rod builder from stamford hill
wife ada mary
son John Herbert Jenkins born tottenham 13 yrs
daughter edna margaret 6 born Tottenham
daughter Elsie Katleen 3 also born tottenham
Could be rellies
living at 1a Fourth Avenue Bush hill Park Edmonton
:)
ronnie
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Hi Ronnie,
Yes could easily be relies...how exciting!Thank you so much.
Definitely food for thought with a David John.
I shall have to investigate more.....
Best wishes,
Annabel...................... ;D
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hi Annabel on the question of east hill house i was there from 1955 to 1960 and yes there was two homes on the east hill i was at the one nearest to the castel mr chadwick (senior
hi Annabel yes there was two boys homes on the east hill i was at east hill house from 1956 until 1960 Mr Chadwick (senior)was our headmaster and Mrs Chadwick (senior) was our matron i so enjoyed my time at the east hill and would love to chat to anybody who was there at that time to talk over old times there were three classrooms a bc there was also a clubroom, please contact me its strange no one talks about the place it was so butifull grounds