RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Herefordshire => Topic started by: cimbrio on Wednesday 09 March 11 16:11 GMT (UK)
-
Hello everyone!
If anyone has any information or knows where I can search for any facts about my ancestor, Elizabeth. She married William Vickress in 1811 in Hope-under-Dinmore (his place of birth), but apparently she came from Leominster, and was born around 1785-1790. Sadly I haven't been able to find her birth nor her parents' names. When she married her last name was Gatehouse, but I have found no trace at all of a family with that surname; perhaps she had been married previously? I know she died in 1875 and had 12 children, so lived a long life and must have been a strong woman to bear so have so many babies, but her origins are a complete mystery to me. Any help/guidance will be appreciated! :)
Cimbrio
-
There are quite a few Gatehouse baptisms and marriages here
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/
including Elizabeth baptised 7th April 1760 daughter of John and Mary. Could she have been older? There is a younger Elizabeth, and one Elizabeth Vickress age 20 in Leominster in 1841 (daughter?)
This lot are probably all related.
-
Hello RCB, thanks for taking the time to search! I don't think my Elizabeth and the Elizabeth born in 1760 are the same one, for want of a better reason because my Elizabeth started having children in 1811 (at least with William Vickress) and had her last child in 1834, plus she died in 1875 so she would have been a supercentenarian by then...
As for Elizabeth Vickress being 20 in 1841 I think it must be her daughter Elizabeth who was actually born in 1816 (the dates and ages of that generation are a bit shacky but I've managed to trace them all by now).
To me there are two things which are puzzling; first, that there is apparently no birth record of Elizabeth Gatehouse dating from around 1785-1790 (at least that I've seen so far). The second is that perhaps Elizabeth was actually married to a Mr Gatehouse before marrying William Vickress. I know it's before the appearance of birth records but how difficult would it be to trace the death of a Mr Gatehouse circa 1810 and his own marriage to Elizabeth (maiden name unknown) previously?
Best regards :)
-
You could spend a few days in the records office in Hereford. But all those Gatehouse's will be your family, the name isn't common. 30 or so in Herefordshire in 1841 and most in the Leominster area.
I did check some marriages to see if anyone married Elizabeth, you could try other parishes in the area. Good luck
-
Thanks RCB, I actually visited the Herefordshire Records Office last September when I visited England. I live in Spain actually so I suppose it'll take some time before I go back there, but the people there were so kind that I might consider writing to them and asking them if they can have a glimpse at the parish records. Unfortunately at the time I went there I knew very little about Elizabeth Gatehouse and had very little time to search. Can users post requests for people to check the Herefordshire Records Office on Rootschat, do you know?
Best regards!
-
Yes people who use the records office often offer to do a look up. I have to go back to Hereford during the summer. One thing, the Forest of Dean site which lists some Gatehouse BMD for Ledbury, Newent, and Dymock They aren't that far from Leominster, a pity that Leominster parish didn't border Gloucestershire then it would all be there for you to search on line.
-
Hey Cimbrio,
Just noticed that Litmarsh Farm is up for sale with local estate agent Nicholas Craddock http://www.nicholas-craddock.co.uk/details.asp?sections=1&office=1&propid=2641
I think this was where some of the Vickress family lived, so this might be the last chance to contact them if you haven't already (plus you can have a nosy at the pictures!)
-
Just reviving this post, and this mystery, which has never been solved.
I'm still no the lookout for Elizabeth Gatehouse. Her ages in the censuses, all showing her living in Hope-under-Dinmore, are:
1841: 50 (born +- 1791 in "county")
1851: 60 (born +- 1791 in Hope)
1861: 76 (born +- 1785 in Leominster)
1871: 87 (born +- 1784 in "Out Parish of Leominster")
Elizabeth died in January 1875 aged 90, so again, born +- 1784/1785.
The variation of birth dates makes me believe Elizabeth was born between 1784 and 1791 at the latest. I have not seen her marriage certificate, which may contain her father's name. I have not found any marriages in Leominster of a couple who may have been her parents except the one between Henry Gatehouse and Mary West, which took place on 22 January 1791 in Leominster.
I have only scored blanks on Ancestry, and I'm still going through FamilySearch. Does anyone know if findmypast has Leominster's baptism records of around that time?
-
Posting in the hope of reviving this post - Elizabeth Gatehouse continues to be one of my main brickwalls.
With the information published above, could anyone visiting the Hereford Records Office anytime soon perhaps look for her baptism in Leominster around c. 1785?
I live outside the UK and therefore can't access the records easily.
Thank you!
Cimbrio
-
I live in Herefordshire. Can't go to the Record Office this week, but should be able to manage it next week
Kay
PS -Love your cat :)
-
Hi Kay,
If it's not too much of a bother for you, I'd be very grateful if you could look up Elizabeth's baptism in Leominster ("Outer Parish?) around the year 1780-1800 (to put it very broadly).
I know she married in Hope-under-Dinmore, Herefordshire on 26 Aug 1811, but I have not seen the original marriage entry - chances are there may be a clue as to her parentage on there?
Many thanks for your kind offering!
Cimbrio
PS: I agree my cat is to die for ;-)
-
I will have a look for both and follow any lines that I find. Fingers crossed :) The 1811 marriage should say whether she was a widow or spinster at least.
Looking forward to seeing the new offices at Hereford
Kay
-
Thank you Kay! Fingers crossed indeed!
Best of luck,
Cimbrio
-
Well had a good day at Hereford Archive and love the new building. Apologies this is rather long winded.
Before I went I fiddled with Gatehouse records on Family Search and Anc and noticed a tree of Anc had a James Gatehouse b 1811 Pembridge who married in 1837 under the name Gittoes and later becomes Gatehouse –confirmed by both the marriage cert and a child’s birth cert.
With the idea that the surname could easily be misspelt if pronounced with an accent I checked on Family Search and found an Elizabeth Gittoes bapt 1 Jun 1788 Leominster with William and Ann Giddoes Gittoes https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N1P1-GBS which looked a possible. I checked the Leominster records and there was no baptism for an Elizabeth Gatehouse in the right time frame.
The marriage of Elizabeth Gatehouse to William Vickress in 1811 was by licence – both were unmarried and signed their names with witnesses Ed Price and Eleanor Sted? But the best bit is that Elizabeth Gatehouse is listed as the daughter of the Parish Clerk!!
Working on the basis that her father could be William Gatehouse/Gittoes from the 1788 baptism in Leominster I found the burial in Hope under Dinmore of a William Gatehouse age 80 on 20 Nov 1834 – listed working as the Parish Clerk for 40 years . I checked the Parish Book with minutes etc for 1780-1824 and on 7 Feb 1808 reference is made in a Vestry meeting - “It is agreed that William Gittus/Gittoes shall continue to hold the office of Parish Clerk until any just or proper cause shall be shown for removal from said office”
Looking at past marriages in the parish between 1768-1807 they are mostly witnessed and I think written up by a William Gittus/Gittoes and in 1807 Elizabeth Gatehouse starts to witness weddings as well.
Again looking at variations of spelling – there is a possible marriage for Elizabath’s father in Hope under Dinmore as William Gittus to Ann Watkins on 23 Dec 1787 – And most confusingly this wedding is also witnessed by another William Gittus –Presumably you can’t witness your own wedding!!!
At this point I got rather confused and think that the William Gittus/Gatehouse who was born approx 1754 and died in 1834 was Elizabeth’s father and possibly her grandfather was also a William – who witnessed his son’s marriage in 1787 and his son William took over the Parish Council work from him?? There is a possible birth for William Jnr in 1759 in nearby Kimbolton with parents William and Mary https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NRC3-76P There is a possible burial for William Snr on 12 Jan 1804 in Hope under Dinmore and for William Jnr’s wife Ann 6 Oct 1801 at Hope under Dinmore
Sorry this is rather long and I hope it makes sense!!
Kay
Edit - I did wonder if this Thomas Gatehouse, born at Hope about 1790, was a sibling of Elizabeth's but I couldn't find a baptism https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7R7-3RD
The Hereford Times 29 October 1864 lists his death at Bodenham on 16 Oct age 76 - after 3 years illness born with patience - Universally respected. Worked for 50 years at Hampton Court estate -30 as a gardener. http://www.hamptoncourt.org.uk/ Sounds a lovely man
-
Hi Kay,
I am still slowly digesting the mountain of information you have so kindly provided. You have helped me solve years of brickwalls :) The alternative spelling of the surname Gatehouse is a true eye-opener.
I think the Thomas Gatehouse mentioned in your edit was very possibly Elizabeth's brother, as she also lived in the grounds of Hampton Court. Would Thomas's baptism appear in Hope-under-Dinmore or Leominster?
I have gone through baptisms and marriages on FamilySearch in the hope of linking the various Gittus, Gittoes and Gatehouses there. Alas, there isn't much helpful information, but here is what I can gather from your discoveries and what FS can provide:
Elizabeth Gatehouse was baptised 1 June 1788, daughter of William Gatehosue/Gittus and wife Ann (probably the same William Gittus and Ann Watkins who married 23 Dec 1787, i.e. Ann would have been pregnant at the time).
William, church clerk, died in 1834 aged 80 so born 1754 - you mention there is a possible candidate in Kimbolton (I assume there isn't a more likely candidate in Hope-under-Dinmore) - would not the marriage certificate mention his parents' names?
Bearing in mind that William's father's name was another William Gittus is still conjecture, I find it highly coincidental that there are other Gittuses (this is becoming complicated!) in Hope. For instance:
- 19 Feb 1747, marriage between Thomas Gittus and Anne Grummy/Grumpe (she being bapt. 15 Oct 1721, daug John and Ann Grumpe). Maybe William (1754-1834) was their son?
- 14/1/1720, marriage between Edward Gittus/Gitters/Gittoes and Eleanor Croft, daughter of Humphrey and Elizabeth Croft, bapt. 9/4/1689). They had children Eleanor (1721), Elizabeth (1722) and William (1724). Maybe Thomas above was their son?
I also have a William Gatehouse b. Bodenham 1823 who marriedJane Stead and then her sister Rebecca Stead. The Steads were prominent Mormons who emigrated to Utah in the 1800's - is it possible to check on William's parentage? I think Bodenham and Hope are very close...
Maybe these are far too many questions and requests to come back with but anything than can be cleared is already a brick less in this brickwall.
Best wishes,
Cimbrio
-
Hi Cimbro
Re your question about the “William, church clerk, died in 1834 aged 80 so born 1754 - you mention there is a possible candidate in Kimbolton (I assume there isn't a more likely candidate in Hope-under-Dinmore) - would not the marriage certificate mention his parents' names?”
His possible marriage to Ann Watkins on 23 Dec 1787 gave witnesses but no parents names. Sadly church records rarely did pre 1837, which is why his daughter Elizabeth’s marriage was so unusual in 1811. I didn’t see a bapt for this William in Hope. To add slightly to the confusion I forgot to mention that there were a few William Gatehouse rather than William Gittoes witness signatures on weddings about 1808 !
Looking through my notes I found a burial for Edward Gittoes at Hope 25 Oct 1766 and Elnor?? Gittes? 21 Nov 1769 Sadly the older burials list no ages, so after marrying in Hope and having children they stayed and died there.
The marriage of Thomas Gittus and Ann Gummy/Grummy in 1747 was by banns. I found a baptism of two possible children in Hope –
Thomas – 7 May 1769 son of William Gitties /Gitters and Ann
John – 1761 son of William and Ann Gittoes
I did wonder if earlier children were baptised elsewhere. Indeed there seem to be a dearth of Gittoes/etc bmd’s other than the ones we have mentioned, although the records do rather jump about.
I didn’t see a baptism for Thomas b 1791 Hope - the possible brother of Elizabeth - He gives his birthplace as Hope throughout the census, but it is possible he was born elsewhere and lived most of his life in Hope. I found I think a marriage for him to Sarah Gatehouse at Kimbolton on 24 Nov 1819 and both were listed as of the Parish
I think that William born Bodenham 1823 could well be son of Thomas Gatehouse b1791 Hope and wife Sarah and baptised at Hope in 1824 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NK8T-S91 – the parishes adjoin. I am hopefully going to the Hive in Worcester sometime so could check the 1848 marriage for a father
As you say it all can get rather complicated. I will not have time to go back to Hereford until next week at the earliest but would think that looking through other Parish Books for Hope would be useful in case other family members are mentioned and I can relook at Hope and adjoining parishes.
Yesterday we were in the area and had a look at the churchyard at St Marys at Hope, but most of gravestones before late 1800’s have been sadly cleared.
Best Wishes Kay
-
Many thanks Kay for sharing further details on the Gatehouses you encountered.
I am hoping that William Gatehouse (1754-1834) was from Hope, the son of William and Ann (m. 1747) as it would fit like a glove when linking him to the other Gatehouses listed on FamilySearch.
What does seem certain more and more is the link between Elizabeth and Thomas (her brother?). Although he listed Hope as his place of birth, given she was born in Leominster in 1788 and he a couple of years later, maybe he too was born in Leominster?
An even greater coincidence is his marriage in 1819 to Sarah Gatehouse in Kimbolton. As this place has already popped up before I'm starting to wonder whether there were not two branches of the same family, the Gatehouses of Hope and Kimbolton, and in 1819 they intermarried...
It's so frustrating the marriage records don't afford further details about couple's parents. But yes, anything further which might pop up in Hope, Leominster or Kimbolton which might link William Gatehouse (1754ish-1834) to his actual family would be a great leap forward (or backward in this case).
I don't know about Gatehouses buried nowadays in Hope but I remember visiting years ago and some of Elizabeth's descendants are buried close to the churchyard gate.
Thanks again for all the troubles you are taking on my behalf.
Best wishes,
Cimbrio
-
It could well be that the Gatehouse/Gittoes families of Hope/Leominster/Kimbolton were connected however the earlier the records go the more variation in the spelling of their names. Sadly without proof such as Elizabeth's reference to her father's occupation at the time of her marriage in 1811 relationships pre 1800 are often the best option.
Sorry - this might be relevant later - but I got sidetracked by newspaper reports. One of the more prominent person's in the local Gatehouse family at the time seemed to be a Henry Gatehouse born 1759 Leominster parents Henry and Margaret who I think died in 1846 with his will on Anc. Newspaper reports on him in 1815 list him as a Sworn Bailiff of the Borough of Leominster and a report lists him as 88 when he died and another as an Alderman of Leominster. I think his father Henry might well have been Henry Gittoes b 1723 Bodenham parents Richard and Mary -which could well tie into your line somewhere!!
Best Wishes Kay
-
Looking at the Gatehouse/Gittus etc in Hope and Bodenham I had little extra success but I did find the burial at Hope on 7 April 1839 of an Ann Gatehouse age 70 of Juniper?? Hill age 84. Possible wife of William??
I checked the earliest Parish Book from 1720’s- 1780’s and found a few bits of interest.
The first Gittus mentioned is 1772 when a William Gittus signs with others the appointment of an overseer for Highways
1739- Elenor Gittus given money for 12 days work
1742 Thomas Gittus signs accounts
1757/1764 Edw Gittus mentioned- Writing to poor to work out whether he was giving or receiving aid
1777 William Gittoes/Gittus mentioned as Overseer of Poor
1780 William Gatehouse mentioned at a Vestry Meeting
1786 – At Parish Meeting it is agreed that William Gatehouse have warrent to take all persons that do not belong to the Parish before a Justice to swear their parish so that they may be removed
1787 William Gatehouse mentioned as a Church Warden
In the Parish Book for 1823 – 1835 William Gatehouse is mentioned a number of times and Ann Gatehouse is paid in cleaning the church at different times
Sorry there isn’t more, but interesting that there was a William Gittus around as earlier as 1722
Best Wishes
Kay
-
Dear Kay,
Many thanks for the huge amount of information you have kindly noted down for me. My visit to Hereford Records Office is long overdue, but I will surely go through all the records you have listed for me.
Greetings from freezing Brussels,
Cimbrio
-
The Parish Books are fascinating, but do depend on the handwriting of the individual. A Williiam Vickress was the Vestry Clerk (husband of Elizabeth??) for a number of years in the 1820's and his writing was good :)
Looks like the weather may be milder next week for you I think you may need quite a few days at the Record Office when you go!
Best Wishes Kay
-
Hello Cimbrio
I am really hoping that you are still on this site and will see my message. I cant tell you how exctied I was to see Elizabeth's name come up when I googled my 5xGreat Grandfather Thomas Gatehouse born in the 1790's in Hope-un-Dinmore. I have to admit my excited got the best of me and I couldn't read the remaining posts before messaging you so I am not sure if you have stated how Elizabeth is related to you but if you haven't could you possibly fill me in. Thank you so much for your time. I hope this message finds you well.
-
Hi Stacey! Thank you for contacting me!
I'll send you a private message so we can exchange e-mail addresses & discuss more about our apparent connection via the Gatehouse family!
Best wishes
-
Dear Cimbrio
That would be wonderful. I am new to the site so if it takes a bit for me to reply to your private message please bare with me. It may take me a bit to find it as I have not really explored the site much yet. Thank you for your quick response.
-
Hello.
If you're still interested in Elizabeth Gatehouse I've recently seen a gravestone in Marden, Herefordshire of a married couple with that surname. It's dated in the 1700's.
I can send you the photograph of this gravestone if you'd like me to.
I can't give yiyouu the first named now but I only live a couple of miles away and I will go down and sent you more details and the photograph of the grave. Hope it may help.