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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Canada Lookup Request => Topic started by: Rowefamily2 on Wednesday 16 March 11 22:37 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I am trying to find my Paternal Grandfather.
William Maton Smith, born around 1899
Was married to Agnes Winton Forbes Kent Robertson on 29th April 1921 in Edinburgh Scotland at the age of 22
Agnes returned to Edinburgh in 1927, whilst pregnant with my Father, David Robertson Smith
There are believed to be 2 sisters, both born before 1926 - possibly May or Mary and Cecilia or Cecily or Cathy?
An address given was Alva House, Rural Route No.1, Scarborough, Toronto.
Any help much appreciated.
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I looked at the marriage registration for William Smith and Agnes Robertson and it gives William's parents as Thomas Smith and Margaret Makin. There was a William Makin Smith born in Alva, Clackmannan in 1898 (family trees at Ancestry give the date as 11 Oct 1898). If this is the correct person the family trees posted indicated he married Edith Joliffe on 14 Aug 1930 and died 25 May 1963. The family trees don't say where he married Edith or where he died. They also don't have information on a first marriage.
Also on the marriage registration for William and Agnes, it indicated that Agnes' address was 95 Restaloig(?) Road, Edinburgh. I found an incoming UK passenger list entry for Agnes Smith who gave a UK address of 95 Restalric Road, Edinburgh. She was on the Athenia which arrived in Glasgow on 29 May 1927. The passenger list had her travelling alone.
I also found Form 30 cards for William, Agnes and two daughters. They arrived in Quebec on 18 May 1924 on the Marburn. William was listed as being 23, born in Alva, Clackmannan and was destined to his father, Mr. Thomas Smith of Toronto. For some reason he listed Agnes as his nearest relative from the country he came from even though she was with him. Agnes was 25, born in Edinburgh and listed Thomas Smith as the person she was joining. She lists her nearest relative in the country she left as David Robertson, father, 95 Restaloig(?) Road. The two children were Sarah (2) and Margaret (11 months).
Jacquie
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Jacquie, that's amazing!
You have found overnight what I've been looking for for years!
Do you know if there were Canadian Census records, or if there's any way I can trace the 2 girls, Sarah and Margaret?
Kind Regards
Sue
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Another adjective for jacquie! ;D Well done...
A marriage of his brother, James Smith age 23 in 1924 Toronto has the father's full names as Thomas Fulton Smith
also, brother George Smith, born Alva, died in B.C.
Harder to find more information within the last century, due to privacy laws & .Canada cesus only available to
1911...but perhaps one of the descendants will see this site and join in..
Use modify button & change your subject line to "William Makin Smith" which will help. I have changed mine
http://pagesofthepast.ca/ might have something for you, but the name Smith might make it expensive ( pay per view)
Perhaps you can contact the site owners if they left a link on the site jacquie found....Did they leave a contact
email for Rowefamily2, jacquie?
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Hi,
I found a death notice for Thomas Smith (William's father) in the Toronto Star. He died on June 9, 1947 in Toronto and is buried in Pine Hills Cemetery. If you would like, I can PM you the details. You just need to make 1 more post.
There is also a family tree site online that might be of interest to you:
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/p/a/r/Jayne--Paradis/GENE4-0006.html
RK
PS - Jacquie IS amazing!!
PPS - I believe that Pine Hills cemetery is in Scarborough (an eastern section of Toronto)
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You guys are making me blush!
I think one of the family trees at Ancestry may have been put up by the same person whose tree Lisa posted a link to. The ones I saw at Ancestry were all public trees if you can access Ancestry then you should be able to contact them.
Jacquie
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I found a death notice for William Makin Smith in the Toronto Star but it is really difficult to read. It appears to indicate the name of one of the daughter was Clara, not Sarah. It lists other children as well as the married names for the daughters but, as I said, I can't read it. When you are able to send personal messages if you PM me your email address I can send you the death notice.
Jacquie
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I don't know how you do this! Do you stay up all night?!
It's fantastic!
Thank you so much..... I really hope I can do this for my Dad! He would so love to know if he has any relatives still living.
Sue
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Do you stay up all night?!
And sleep all day. ;)
Jacquie
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re:William Makin Smith's obit
I've sent jacquie what little I could glean from the newspaper writeup. Someone might just volunteer to look at the actual reels for you one day....if you are lucky. If jacquie thinks it makes sense I'll sent it to you...
Giffen-Mack Funeral Home still exists, so they might have more information for you
http://www.giffenmackdanforth.com/dm20/en_CA/locations/37/3778/index.page
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Great - and I sent Sue a PM with my transcriptions of both Thomas's and William's death notices from the paper. Thomas's is quite easy to read and sheds some light on what William's might say. William's is really hard to read. Hopefully, between all of our tries, Sue may be able to get some ideas.
RK
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Some amazing info there... thank you all soooo much!
Anyone know where can I look up marriage information for Scarborough, Canada?
No idea how to proceed next! :-\
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I think JJ, RK and I all agree on Norma Whitmore. RK and I thought it was Margaret Collins which is close to what JJ thought. We all seem to be stuck on Clara's married name.
Jacquie
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No idea how to thank you all for this amazing information!
My Dad is now 84, and as far as he knows has no living relatives. Since my Mum died, it's become a bit of a mission for me to try to find someone for him. I tried many years ago, before things took off on the internet, and got no-where.
You have given me so much information now to work with!
Hoping I can somehow track down his sisters, and although they may well no longer be around, I guess their children will be and will be able to give him some information on his Dad etc.
Any idea what I do next regards searching in Canada?
Sue x
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Hi again,
As for tracking down his sisters - the easiest seems to be Janet (Mrs A Lee). She is mentioned in both of the obituaries - AND she is in the family tree that I mentioned above.
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/p/a/r/Jayne--Paradis/GENE4-0006.html
Janet's 5 children are also listed on this family tree. I won't mention their names, in case they are still living, but you can see them for yourself if you follow the link I posted. Just find Janet (number 55) and click on her name. This should give you more leads - and some cousins for your Dad!!
According to this tree, Janet's husband is Arthur. It says that he died on Dec 27 1967 in Barrie, Ont. This is about an hour north of Toronto. The Barrie Examiner index has a reference to his death notice. You could see if the Barrie library would look up his obituary for you - it may contain more information about Janet and their children (where they might be living - married names etc.)
http://news.ourontario.ca/Barrie/results?q=Arthur+Lee
As you can see, the obit/death notice was published on 2 days. Just click on one of the entries and scroll down to the bottom - the contact information for the Barrie library (email and website) is here.
RK
ADDED - Here is a link straight to the Barrie Library Genealogy section:
http://www.library.barrie.on.ca/programmes/genealogy.htm
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Hi again,
It doesn't look like the Ontario Genealogical Society has transcribed the tombstones in the Pine Hills Cemetery. I just looked up the publications of the Toronto branch, and it is not there (see under Scarborough).
http://www.torontofamilyhistory.org/cemeterypubs.html#scarborough
This is too bad - it would have been interesting to see if any of William M. Smith's siblings or children were buried near him or near Thomas.
There is a partial transcription at the interment.net site, but your relatives aren't listed. This cemetery appears to come under the umbrella of the "Mount Pleasant Group" of cemeteries. They manage most of the huge Toronto area cemeteries and - I suppose because the number of burials they have on file is so enormous - they charge 30 dollars per look up! Ouch. (Look on the navigation pane on the left and click on Genealogy)
http://www.mountpleasantgroup.com/otherinquiries/cemeteries/contactus
There is no way to "Browse" through the listings. :P
RK
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If you give me the date that William's obituary appears in the Star, I'll look it up on the microfilm at the Central Reference Library and see if that's any more legible. Some of those microfilms are awfully overexposed though.
I can also nip over to Pine Hills Cemetery for you. Is just Thomas Fulton Smith of interest there or are there others to look for?
mat
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If you give me the date that William's obituary appears in the Star, I'll look it up on the microfilm at the Central Reference Library and see if that's any more legible. Some of those microfilms are awfully overexposed though.
I can answer that for you. The date of the paper was 28 May 1963 (Tuesday) and it was on page 29. It's located at the top of the last column with the "Deaths" heading.
Jacquie
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Mat...so nice of you to go to the trouble, awesome favour...I'd hold off on the cemetery peek, though, until the obit reveals more for the poster of the thread.. J.J.
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Some luck at the library today but not much.
From the Toronto Star on May 3, 1948:
GAWMAN-SMITH VOWS
TAKEN IN SCARBORO
At the home of Rev. S. H. Pickup,
Scarboro Junction, Claire S. Smith,
daughter of Mr. and Mrs. William
Smith, Old Danforth Rd., became
the bride of J. J. Gawman, son of
Harry Gawman, Toronto. The bride,
given in marriage by her father,
wore a tile gabardine suit with
navy accessories, hat, shoes and
gloves. Her corsage was deep red
roses. Mrs. Margaret Collins, the
bride's sister, attended the bride in
a pale blue suit with pink acces-
sories. Her corsage was coral roses.
Barney Andrews was groomsman.
The bride's mother received in a
navy floral dress with a corsage
of red roses. Following a wedding
trip through western Ontario the
couple will reside in Toronto.
Note that she's called "Claire" and her sister's married name is given as "Collins".
Barney Andrews turns up in the next item I found. The June 29, 2004, edition of the Toronto Star has the obituary for Henry Maxwell "Mac" Gawman. It states "Predeceased by brothers Charles, Joseph and Barney Andrews; Jack and Lenny Garman." It looks like Clara's husband J.J. was either Joseph
or Jack. I don't know what the semi-colon signifies. Are all five deceased or just the first three?
A search of the Toronto city directories came up empty. No J.J. or Margaret Gawman. Several H. Whitmores. A Robert Collis and dozens of entries for R. Collins. Eighteen entries for Leslie Smith in 1963.
That's all I can do until some new information comes to light.
mat
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Fabulous find Mat!!
I think that the semi colon likely means that Henry had some brothers with the last name Gawman (Jack and Lenny) and some step brothers with the last name Andrews (Charles, Joseph and Barney). So, it looks to me like the J. J. Gawman who is married to Claire Smith would be Jack. :)
I think they ALL predeceased Henry, so J. J. died prior to 2004.
It looks like it is a rotten snowy day in Toronto. Very nice of you to go to the library :) :)
RK
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That opened up some information, Mat...Great find!
Gawman (Smith), Claire - Death News Advertiser Ajax edition
February 12, 1986 page 11-S; spouse John Gawman
http://www.pada.ca/bdm/results/?name=23986
( Note that Jack=John) Gawman, John J. - Death February 17, 1982 page 10-S; spouse Clair Gawman (Smith)
One contact in Pickering http://www.canada411.ca/res/9058311956/S-Gawman/140396969.html
Only a handful more in Ontario with the surname http://www.canada411.ca/search/si/1/gawman/ontario
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Just wanted to apologise for not replying sooner.
Using only my iPhone for Internet at the moment as lines are down here!
Thank you all so much for researching all this info! I spoke with my Dad today, who's just come out of hospital after an operation. He is thrilled to hear the info I've given him, and especially pleased to hear his name was given in his fathers death notice as he was sure his father knew nothing of him.
I'll be able to reply better once my Internet is back, and will be able to input all the info you guys have found into the family tree at ancestry.co.uk
You can only begin to imagine how thankful I am!
Kind regards
Sue
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All our best to your father, and quick healing! ;D also hope the internet comes back up soon for you...
Well done once again, Canada Board!! You Rock!
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Hi,
been trying to look at the PADA link you gave me
http://www.pada.ca/bdm/results/?name=23986
but I am not able to view the image, other than as a thumbnail. It won't let me download, even tho I have Adobe.
Any idea how I obtain a login for this site... always assuming I can?!
Thanks
Sue
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There is no image uploaded, sorry I figured you would read that when you hit the link...Perhaps someone will do the lookup for you if you request on this thread. ( Never make a new thread re: same person or family for which you already have posted a query...) J.J.
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Thanks JJ. :)
I've only got this one thread running, I think! (I hope!)
Just putting all the info you guys have found into the tree on Ancestry.co.uk, now I've got my internet back!
Hoping it might turn up some new links.
Sue
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I got out to Pine Hills today. Their computer records aren't the best. They gave me gravesite coordinates for a Thomas Smith interred in 1947 but I found an interloper (John Smith, deceased 1931) in that location. They did tell me that Thomas, Margaret and Norma were buried together but I'll have to go back another time and hope I get lucky.
It took some poking around before I found William and Edith. Here are a couple pictures.
mat
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Hi,
I just looked up Edith's obituary in the Toronto Star (using the date from the tombstone photo). It appears that 3 of her children are living - as of 1998. The obit mentions "the late Margaret Collins, Claire Gawman and William George Smith". I assume (from the sentence construction) that these 3 have passed away.
I will send you the details via PM.
RK
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Wow!
I didn't expect to feel emotion like I did when I saw those pictures!
That has totally blown me away!
Mat, Thank you so much!
I really don't know how to thank you all for the amount of help you are all giving me on this thread.
The really interesting thing now is the info RK found on Edith's obit.....
Toronto Star - Friday, August 7, 1998
SMITH, Edith Florence- Peacefully at Scarborough General Hospital, on Thursday August 6, 1998, in her 93rd year, Edith, beloved wife of the late William, and dear mother of N and her husband H Whitmore, D and his wife B, L and his wife B, and the late Margaret Collins, Claire Gawman and William George Smith. Lovingly remembered by eight grandchildren and many great grandchildren. Friends may visit at the Jerrett Funeral Home, 650 Kennedy Road, Scarborough (between Eglinton and St. Clair Ave E.) after 12:30 pm Saturday August 8 followed by funeral service in the Chapel at 2:30 pm Saturday. Interment Pine Hills Cemetery. As expressions of sympathy, donations to the Arthritis Society or the Heart and Stroke Foundation would be appreciated.
The D mentioned can't be my Dad! He was married to Agnes, my Mum, and lived in Edinburgh. Dad had never been in contact with William, and knew nothing of Edith. So could that mean he has a half-brother with the same name????!!!!
D is a family name on my Dad's side. It goes a long way back, and indeed my brother, and my own son, are also called D.
Erm... I may need to be careful what info I give my Dad now, as he's chuffed to think his Dad knew of him, when it may have been another brother!!!!!
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It is still possible that William knew about your father but his second wife and children didn't.
Jacquie
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It opens up a whole can of worms!
Was William actually my Dad's Father?.... My Grandmother returned to Scotland when she was around 4 months pregnant with my Dad.
The story was that she and William had argued about her talking to another man. She came back home to Edinburgh, and was to return to get the girls - Claire and Margaret, but never did, due I believe to the War and lack of money. She never remarried, and as far as Dad knew, William was his father and is named as such on his Birth Certificate. As far as we know, there was never any contact between William and his first wife, Agnes.
I wonder what will pop up next?!
I would so love to find Dad a living relative who can tell him more.
Sue x
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Just modified my earlier post and taken out actual names. Sorry!
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Been digging around again this evening and found more info on some living relatives. ;D
Found an obit for David James Smith for March 20th 2008 in the Toronto Star on 23rd March 2008, and it names quite a few people.
Come up against all dead ends since tho.... :-\
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Hi....
I am in the process of trying again with my search, as I ended with a run of dead ends!
Sadly my Dad died very recently on 1st March at the age of 91. I’m now going through old folders of info to see what I can find, hence trying agin to unearth any info I can.
Sue
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What info would you like to revisit ?
Sandra