RootsChat.Com

England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (West Riding) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests => Topic started by: thecohens on Friday 18 March 11 03:41 GMT (UK)

Title: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: thecohens on Friday 18 March 11 03:41 GMT (UK)
I have the census records for 1901 and 1911 for Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds.  I believe I have identified Esther's death in 1939 but have not been able to find a burial or  death index entry for Moses, and would appreciate help finding out when and where Moses passed away and was buried.  They were Jewish but I did not find a burial for either  when I searched the United Synagogue site.
 
Moses was a "Travelling Jeweller" born in Russian Poland about 1871.  I know he was widowed but still alive during World War II as my cousins stayed with him briefly at that time in Leeds.

Thank you  for any help you can give me.
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: Evie on Friday 18 March 11 07:06 GMT (UK)
Hi

I cannot see a death for Moses I'm afraid.

Regarding Esther, she is listed in the index of wills and administrations. She died 7 Aug 1939 and left £360 to husband Moses, master jeweller of 18 Mexborough Street Leeds.

evie
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: Evie on Friday 18 March 11 07:14 GMT (UK)
Hi

Moses is listed in the British phone books directory living 18 Mexborough Street Leeds, publication year 1950.

His name also appears on this database which states he died before 14 Oct 1955. However I am not familiar with this site and so I am not sure where the information comes from

http://british-jewry.org.uk/leedsjewry/getperson.php?personID=I16790&tree=1

evie

Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: thecohens on Friday 18 March 11 07:29 GMT (UK)

Regarding Esther, she is listed in the index of wills and administrations. She died 7 Aug 1939 and left £360 to husband Moses, master jeweller of 18 Mexborough Street Leeds.

evie

Thank you.  

 I have ordered Esther's death certificate, on the rare chance it might have her maiden name, but I know that will not tell me when she was buried and have not yet identified any living family members to be able to ask if they know.

 I did also check the cemeteryscribes site, which has many Jewish  burials.   Do you have any idea how else I might find out either of their burial locations when I did not find them at the main synagogue site?

I have now seen your other reply as well.  Since they say Moses had died by 1955, there is probably something like an obituary or someone named after him in 1955, if that is accurate.  I do know his brother died in 1952. 

It will take some more poking around to check that out.  Is Paul Palestrant who died in 1952 also listed somewhere that might be helpful?  I did find this brother Paul was buried in Willesden.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: Evie on Friday 18 March 11 12:41 GMT (UK)
Hi

Sorry I don't know much about searching Jewish roots. I couldn't find anything for Paul apart from his possible marriage to Beatrice Straussler in 1909 which you probably know of.

evie
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: thecohens on Sunday 20 March 11 03:57 GMT (UK)
Sorry I don't know much about searching Jewish roots. I couldn't find anything for Paul apart from his possible marriage to Beatrice Straussler in 1909 which you probably know of.
Hi, thanks for checking, I was more interested if you turned anything up about Paul in the general resources that were not necessarily Jewish.  Yes, I have Paul's marriage as well as birth names of his children.  I wondered about probate on him as well, maybe that is what I was thinking, but it might be too recent.

But finding Moses in the directory is a big  help, as is that site you found. It looks very useful, although it clearly is not guaranteed accurate.  It gives parents names of some people I did not have the parents of, so appreciate that a whole lot.

It is strange, it would seem Moses would be listed in probate if he owned property, it is amazing his death has not turned up except as "before" that 1955 date.  I bet the surname may be misindexed.  I'll try hunting in his first name alone at fbmd for the death during those years 1950-1955.

Thanks so much again!
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: Evie on Sunday 20 March 11 09:09 GMT (UK)
Hi

I've tried all variations of Moses to try and find his death but no luck I'm afraid.

Paul took the oath of allegience on the 19th August 1904, address 27 Samuel Street, Leeds

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/27719/supplements/6379/page.pdf

As the date for Moses suggesting he died 'before' was quite specific, I wonder if something special had taken place on that day? Strange :-\

evie
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: Evie on Sunday 20 March 11 09:55 GMT (UK)
Hi

I wonder if it is worth registering with the link I gave you in reply#2. I had a look again and information for Paul was last modified 1 Jan 2011. Interestingly though they have his death date as Bef 21 Aug 1953. I wonder who is inputting the information.

evie
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: thecohens on Monday 21 March 11 04:58 GMT (UK)

I've tried all variations of Moses to try and find his death but no luck I'm afraid......

Thanks, yeah, I also tried searching all Moses' with no surname for 1950-55 without anything turning up.  There might have been some wedding he was noticeably absent from or mention in an obituary in 1955.

I had searched the gazette and seen that notice.  When I can work on this more intensely in a few weeks, I will try to track down what happened to Paul's children, maybe it was one of their marriages.  Will let you know if I find the event ma4tching that date.

But we may be chasing coat tails.  I saw some of the dates in that Jewish site were way wrong compared to the BMD Index entries I found, but we won't know for sure until his real record turns up.

I have some additional marriage records on the way that might shed some light on this, after I follow through researching more family members.

Thanks again so much!
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: thecohens on Monday 21 March 11 05:03 GMT (UK)
Interestingly though they have his death date as Bef 21 Aug 1953.
They aren't getting their information from the standard web sources...I have Paul's   date of death from the United Synagogue site as 30 Jul 1952, buried
Willesden.
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: JeannieR on Tuesday 22 March 11 15:16 GMT (UK)
Hello There....

Hope you do not mind me "butting" in.

I have the CDrom of Leeds Burials, and neither Esther or Moses appear on it, I am afraid.

One thing I have found though, is Moses , travelling from New York, and arriving at Liverpool, 5th March 1910 on board The Lusitania. He gave his birth place as Makowa , Russia. I think this is quite significant for you, as other members of your family were born there.

JeannieR
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: Evie on Tuesday 22 March 11 15:30 GMT (UK)
Hi JeannieR

Welcome on board :)

Interesting that Esther isn't buried in Leeds.

evie
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: thecohens on Wednesday 23 March 11 13:42 GMT (UK)
Hi Jeannie,

Thanks for taking an interest.

I have the CDrom of Leeds Burials, and neither Esther or Moses appear on it, I am afraid.

I am not familiar with this CDRom. Does it include Jewish cemeteries in the area? Or just Leeds proper? 

I suppose since they were fairly well off, they might have gotten buried in Israel?   I had not thought of checking Israeli burials, some religious Jews have themselves shipped there for burial upon their demise.

The other more likely possibility is that they may have been buried in a Jewish cemetery somewhere in England but their burials not indexed.

One thing I have found though, is Moses , travelling from New York, and arriving at Liverpool, 5th March 1910 on board The Lusitania. He gave his birth place as Makowa , Russia. I think this is quite significant for you, as other members of your family were born there.

Yes, I have seen the associated arrival in New York, and appreciate your finding the date he returned to England.  I was extremely interested in who he was going to see in the United States, as I do not yet know which of the Palestrants in the United States are related to my family.

Unfortunately, I think he was going to visit a nephew, Jack Cohen, in New York.  That is an extremely common name, and the most likely match is a child at or near the address given on that manifest whose family I have not yet researched thoroughly.

There are two thrusts to my research.   One is to figure out which Palestrants are related to Moses and Esther and how, and I have ordered a number of records from the GRO to help with this.

Many of the Palestrants who migrated to the United States had family members who lived in Leeds at some point, although some were born as Palestines!    But residence in Leeds at some point does not tell me how they are related to Moses, or if they are related to my family.

So, the other goal is to figure out how Moses's family is related to my Vishnick and Feldberg families.  For this, I am also hunting his mother Rosa's death and burial, although even if her tombstone has a familiar first name on it for her father, may not provide final resolution.

The BMD records for Makowa were destroyed in a fire in 1898, so I am not able to take the question back to Poland to find appropriate birth records in Makow.   All I can do is see if I can turn up appropriate related records elsewhere.

With regards to Rosa's death, there is not a clear entry at FreeBMD for her, but some entries with odd Palestrant first names.   These 1916 and 1918 Leeds death certificates for Arish and Rany are on the way to me.  I wish we could see the original handwriting, I have found that the official transcriptions often misspell foreign first names.  I hope I can tell who died on those dates!

Anyhow, I don't know if you saw that FamilySearch also has an 1897 record for a Moses Palestrant born Makow whose relation was Esther Segel, I think in a Belgian Passports database.  It might be my Moses, but I did now know what to make of it, if this was giving me Esther's maiden name or was a different Moses.

If Moses owned his house, would there have been a will and letter of administration?   I have not had the best luck ordering wills, but I wonder since we have a small range of years (early 1950's), and his is not a common name, if it would make sense to order a copy of his Probate file.   If it can be found, it would give his date of death, and maybe the names of other relatives in addition to  his brother Paul's family.

Thanks again for your input!
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: JeannieR on Saturday 26 March 11 16:30 GMT (UK)
Hello again.....

I cannot find Rosa's death either, and I have trawled the death indexes.  I hope that the certificates you receive, turn out to be the ones you need...

I have found a marriage, which may be of interest.

Shiah Mendel Palestrant to ESTHER SHILLING, which took place March qtr 1892 / Mile End Town / vol 1c page 604

I also found that Joseph Leopold Palestrant, changed his name to TRENT, by deed poll in 1938 . Could Moses have done the same ?

I worked in the Jewellery industry, for many years in Leeds, 1960-1988 , and do not recall the name....

You could contact The Jewish Telegraph , founded 1950 . They do have a " looking for information " section

www.jewishtelegraph.com

JeannieR
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: thecohens on Sunday 27 March 11 05:51 BST (UK)
I have found a marriage, which may be of interest.

Shiah Mendel Palestrant to ESTHER SHILLING, which took place March qtr 1892 / Mile End Town / vol 1c page 604

Yes, that is indeed!  I have ordered that marriage.  I had been thinking it is another Palestrant, but am getting suspicious that Shia Mendel and Moses are the same person, possibly explaining why I saw no sign of Shia Mendel in 1901. 

I also found that Joseph Leopold Palestrant, changed his name to TRENT, by deed poll in 1938 . Could Moses have done the same ?
I doubt that he would change his surname in his old age, not after his wife died and shortly before he apparently did as well. 

Joseph Leopold was Moses's nephew, the son of Moses' brother Paul.

Now, it is possible his death got misrecorded under a different surname accidentally, but I think I searched all Moses' (no surname entered) who died between 1950-1955 and did not see any likely matches.

I have updated my online tree to show more clearly  what I know so far at this point, before getting the marriage and death certificates that I have ordered.

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=REG&db=palestrant&id=I5

A friend suggested maybe Moses was travelling and that he died away from England.

I worked in the Jewellery industry, for many years in Leeds, 1960-1988 , and do not recall the name....

That is an interesting coincidence!

But, according to one website that Evie found, Moses died before 1955, so I would guess you most likely would not have heard of him.  Plus I think he was already retired by World War 2 when my cousins stayed with him.   He was born about 1880.
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: thecohens on Sunday 01 May 11 15:45 BST (UK)
I have found a marriage, which may be of interest.

Shiah Mendel Palestrant to ESTHER SHILLING, which took place March qtr 1892 / Mile End Town / vol 1c page 604

Sigh.  I have now received the 1892  marriage certificate from the GRO for Shiah Mendel Palestrant, but it says he married Hannah Milchich!  He was age 21, a journeyman tailor, and his father was Simon Palestrant.  It says they were married East London Synagogue on 9 Feb 1892.

My Moses Palestrant was a jeweller born about 1871, but I believe his father was Joseph Palestrant (a nonmatch), based on his brother Paul's marriage and mother's death certificates.

I had not mentioned the bride when I ordered the certificate.  I am not sure how to proceed.  I checked the United Synagogue marriages and did not find anything resembling this  marriage listed, although it should be as it looks like they have posted 1892, and their listings include the East London Synagogue.
 
Where did you find that Shia Mendel married Esther Schilling?    How do I know which source is correct?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: JeannieR on Friday 06 May 11 12:14 BST (UK)
Hello Again..

I am sorry, that through information I gave you, you purchased a certificate , that was of no use to you....

The details were from Ancestry, and Freebmd
March qtr /1892 / Mile End Town / vol 1c page 604

Louis Diamant
Hannah Milcrich
Shiah Mendel Palestrant
Esther Shilling

I did research the couples, before I notified you. There is no Louis Diamant with a wife Esther on the 1901 census, nor do they appear to have left England or died. But there was, of course a Palestrant with a wife Esther in Leeds.

I spent most of yesterday trying to find Moses passing. I tried every possible variation of the name . I feel he must have died c1949/1950 , as this is when mention of him stops in the telephone directory. I searched from 1949-1970.

On the 1911 census, apart from the family you know of, there is one other Palestrant in Leeds,
Aria ? Palestrant  I wonder if this is Shiah ? He was also a tailor. There is no Hannah though.

Ariah's death was registered in 1916, and there is a death for a "Hany" Palestrant registered in 1918 age 82. I wonder who this was .

Living where Moses did, he would have used the Louis Street Synagogue on Chapeltown Road.
I will try to find out if there are any archives. I also thought he may have entered a nursing home, as he would have been around 79/80 in 1950. I am not sure when Donisthorpe Hall was opened, but it is the oldest Jewish nursing home in Leeds. They would still have to register his death though

Had Moses decided to go to Israel, I feel certain he would have sailed there, but there is no record of this on passenger lists. I do not think there would be many flights then.

Moses is a mystery. I am not sure when I can get to Leeds again. I no longer drive, and my husband is waiting for a hip replacement, but I will see what I can come up with for you. We have quite a few Jewish friends who may be able to help . One of them had a father, who took his Oath of Allegiance on the same day as Paul Palestrant in 1904.

JeannieR
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: thecohens on Friday 06 May 11 15:09 BST (UK)
Hello Again..

I am sorry, that through information I gave you, you purchased a certificate , that was of no use to you....
No need to apologize, I intended to order that certificate anyhow as I wanted to see who Shia Mendel was.  I just thought you had found a definite listing linking Shia Mendel to Esther Schilling, and got rattled when Hannah was his bride.

Since I do not know where my Vishnick family connects in to the Palestrant family as cousins, whether it was Moses' mother or one of his grandmothers or great grandmothers who was a Vishnick or Feldberg, all Palestrants are of interest to me.

I do suppose it is possible we are related through Moses' wife Esther, if she was a Vishnick or Feldberg, I cannot rule that possibility out.  Even though my family did stay connected with Paul's son, it does not confirm our connection was through their ancestors as opposed to the  wife of Moses.

I also had hunted for Louis Diamont with no luck, having seen  the partial listing at FreeBMD that did not include Esther.

I can answer your questions about Ariah and Hany as I now also have their death certificates.  Ariah is Moses' brother and Hany is their mother, apparently a very bad transcription of Rosy.  FreeBMD has it as Rany.  But the death certificates are very clear as to their relationships.

I do intend to obtain the 1911 censuses for all of them, but have not yet got my credits.  I am sure this will answer many questions, although of course it will not tell me when Moses died or where he and Esther were buried.

I spent most of yesterday trying to find Moses passing. I tried every possible variation of the name . I feel he must have died c1949/1950 , as this is when mention of him stops in the telephone directory. I searched from 1949-1970.
...
Moses is a mystery. I am not sure when I can get to Leeds again. I no longer drive, and my husband is waiting for a hip replacement, but I will see what I can come up with for you. We have quite a few Jewish friends who may be able to help . One of them had a father, who took his Oath of Allegiance on the same day as Paul Palestrant in 1904.

JeannieR
Thank you so very much for your efforts on my behalf.  It sounds like you have a lot of other things going on in your life besides genealogy and have your hands full.

If Moses was on vacation in Ireland (and we did have Vishnick relations there), his death would be in Irish rather than in British records.  But I would still expect he and Esther to be buried together in England.

There is a little less urgency to finding Moses's burial now that I have his father's name Joseph from his mother's death certificate and brother's marriage certificate.  I would like to know, and make the tree more complete, but at least I have his father's name. which is what makes Jewish tombstones so helpful in obtaining.  But of course if we tie together through Esther, her tombstone would be extremely helpful.

I also am researching the families of Moses' sisters who have turned up, as well as looking at the family of his brother Paul.  When I can take this far enough forwards, I expect to contact descendants to see if anyone in the family has done genealogy that is not on the web that will help  answer the basic question of how we are related.

So, I am waiting on more certificates to confirm the likely families I see in the censuses for sisters of Moses, are indeed mine before tracking them forwards after 1901 and 1911.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: JeannieR on Friday 06 May 11 17:35 BST (UK)
Hello Again

Not sure if you have this information, but here go's anyway.....

1901 census

49 Albert Grove , Leeds

Abraham HOFFMAN / head / age 34 / Travelling Jeweller / born Austria
Annie Hoffman / wife / age 25 / born Russia
Joseph Hoffman / son / age 5 / born Manchester
Noah Hoffman / son / age 3 / born Manchester  ( registered as Marcus Noah Hoffman )
Jack COHEN / nephew / age 20 / Travelling Jeweller / born Leeds

I have not , as yet found them,  in 1911.

Abraham HOFFMAN married Annie POLESTROUT at the New Synagogue, Chapeltown Road in 1895 (from Yorkshirebmd)
on Find my past it is transcribed as POLESTRANT / reg March qtr 1895 / Leeds / 9b 602

I did have a look to see if I could find Moses and Esther's marriage, as badly mistranscribed with no luck , I am afraid....

JeannieR
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: thecohens on Friday 06 May 11 19:35 BST (UK)
1901 census

49 Albert Grove , Leeds

Abraham HOFFMAN / head / age 34 / Travelling Jeweller / born Austria
Annie Hoffman / wife / age 25 / born Russia
Joseph Hoffman / son / age 5 / born Manchester
Noah Hoffman / son / age 3 / born Manchester  ( registered as Marcus Noah Hoffman )
Jack COHEN / nephew / age 20 / Travelling Jeweller / born Leeds

I have not , as yet found them,  in 1911.
You are amazing!

Yes, thanks, I do have the Hoffman census and have their marriage as well.  I have ordered Joseph's birth...I believe he is registered as Isaac Joseph Hoffman, that makes sense as our known Feldberg patriarch's name was Isaac, although it could also be a coincidence.

Yes, finding them in 1911 is very difficult.  I keep wondering if they left England for South Africa or the USA but the passenger listings for  Hoffmans with unknown first names or initials are way too long.  If they came to the USA, then having Joseph's exact birth date may help me find them, and his birth cert will be coming.
 
I believe that is the same nephew Jack Cohen who Moses said on his Ellis Island record that he would be visiting when he came to the USA in 1910.

I also have Jacob Cohen's birth record hopefully coming, there were only 2 registered likely to be him, I hope I picked the right one.  That can help confirm his mother was a Palestrant and help me find him in the USA.

I have Jack Cohen family's censuses as well for 1881 and 1891 in Leeds.  I do not think the family was intact in 1901, at least not in England, but not sure why.  His parents were probably Napthali and Mary.   Listed under Head of Household Naphthali in the 1881 census and Napthall in 1891 at Ancestry.
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: JeannieR on Saturday 07 May 11 12:18 BST (UK)
Hello...

It appears that the Hoffman's did go to South Africa, at some point.

Isaac Joseph Hoffman, born December 12th 1895, married Rose Joseph and had at least one child. Mervyn at Cape Town in February 4th 1936-1988

There is someone on Ancestry (Hoffman Tree) with Isaac as a relative. Mervyn's wife and children are still living. They do not appear to know who Isaac Joseph's father was, or his mother's maiden name though

Jeannie
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: JeannieR on Saturday 07 May 11 13:20 BST (UK)
I am quite excited !!

Looking to ascertain Jack Cohen's parentage I came across this family

1891 census
49 Hope Street, Leeds

Hyman COHEN / head / age 30 / Travelling Jeweller / born Russia
Betsy Cohen / wife / age 29 / born Russia
JACOB Cohen / son / age 10 / born Russia
Owe Cohen / daughter / age 7 / born Leeds
Abraham Cohen / son / age 5 / born Leeds
Joseph Cohen / son / age 3 / born Leeds
JANE POTESTRANT / mother in law /married / age 46 / born Poland

The actual image is very good, and it looks to me as if the first T, is in fact a L
Although it states Jacob was born in Russia, there is birth registration for a Jacob Issacher Cohen in Leeds at that time.......
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: ..claire.. on Sunday 08 May 11 00:45 BST (UK)
Hi have found this and think it is a part of what you are looking for;

New Briggate Cemetery        Plot   926   Date of death: 7 Aug. 1939

Name: Esther PALESTRANT    aged 69

Hebrew name- Esther Malcah b. Issur Nachamon.

Can't locate Moses but there is a Rany Palestrant buried there.

I found the record on the Jewishjen site.

Claire.t
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: thecohens on Sunday 08 May 11 06:03 BST (UK)
Isaac Joseph Hoffman, born December 12th 1895, married Rose Joseph and had at least one child. Mervyn at Cape Town in February 4th 1936-1988
Wowee zowee!   Is this from some index or the tree you found?  What does 1935-1988 mean?
There is someone on Ancestry (Hoffman Tree) with Isaac as a relative. Mervyn's wife and children are still living. They do not appear to know who Isaac Joseph's father was, or his mother's maiden name though
That is pretty common for trees, most people don't bother doing extensive research on spouses of relatives.  I am sure they will like to hear from me once I resubscribe, thanks for the tip.

And thanks for saving me from more fruitless hunting elsewhere!  They may not know much, but that doesn't mean that nobody knows. 

I find many older folks do not want to tell their offspring someone is studying the family history, yet I often hear from their grandchildren who are ecstatic to have found their family history when searching the web.  So there is still a chance for some more leads, someone in a tree can be a link to folks who do know more.
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: thecohens on Sunday 08 May 11 06:19 BST (UK)
I am quite excited !!

Looking to ascertain Jack Cohen's parentage I came across this family

1891 census
49 Hope Street, Leeds

Hyman COHEN / head / age 30 / Travelling Jeweller / born Russia
Betsy Cohen / wife / age 29 / born Russia
JACOB Cohen / son / age 10 / born Russia
Owe Cohen / daughter / age 7 / born Leeds
Abraham Cohen / son / age 5 / born Leeds
Joseph Cohen / son / age 3 / born Leeds
JANE POTESTRANT / mother in law /married / age 46 / born Poland

The actual image is very good, and it looks to me as if the first T, is in fact a L
Although it states Jacob was born in Russia, there is birth registration for a Jacob Issacher Cohen in Leeds at that time.......
Wow, very good!  Hmmm, I guess we wait to see the other Jacob Cohen's birth cert to see if this little fellow is Jacob Issachar or just Jacob.   I recall seeing this Potestrant before and not placing her. I wonder who and where her husband is but I guess we should wait and see the certificate.

But it looks like you are on to something big.  Too bad all the records where my family was from in Makow were destroyed thru 1897, it would make it a whole lot easier if they had survived to research this.
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: thecohens on Sunday 08 May 11 06:29 BST (UK)


Can't locate Moses but there is a Rany Palestrant buried there.

I found the record on the Jewishjen site.
This is fantastic, if I can find a way to get Esther's and Rany's tombstone images I will be ecstatic.

But do you mean Jewishjen or JewishGen?  I cannot find a jewishjen, so assume you mean JewishGen.org

Can you tell me where on the JewishGen site?  When I search the online burial registry, I am told there are no Palestrants in England.

http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/cemetery

thanks!
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: thecohens on Sunday 08 May 11 16:46 BST (UK)
claire.t helped me find the listings at the following JewishGen database for Leeds:
 
http://www.jewishgen.org/jcr-uk/Leeds.htm

They search the entire UK database for Leeds entries for the surname of interest, and the burials are apparently not in the Jewishgen Worldwide Burial Registry, which is a totally separate database.
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: thecohens on Tuesday 10 May 11 19:48 BST (UK)
Isaac Joseph Hoffman, born December 12th 1895, married Rose Joseph and had at least one child. Mervyn at Cape Town in February 4th 1936-1988

There is someone on Ancestry (Hoffman Tree) with Isaac as a relative. ...
I have not been able to turn up this particular Hoffman Tree at Ancestry, or a Mervyn Hoffman except one who went to Australia.   Can you help me find the tree?

Thanks
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: JeannieR on Tuesday 10 May 11 20:01 BST (UK)
Hi.....

I just put in Isaac Joseph Hoffman , year of birth 1895 , Manchester in to the search. Then clicked on family trees, and he came up about the 7th down the list "The Hoffman Tree "

Good Luck
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: thecohens on Wednesday 11 May 11 01:58 BST (UK)
Thanks JeannieR!   I had to do some fiddling with my nonstandard browser, but did finally find that.

I also found the marriage of Marcus Noah Hoffman to Polly Cohen in April 1922 by searching Hoffman at the Kaplan Center Jewish Site for South Africa.   Abraham's naturalization and Annie's death may also be listed there, not sure if the records are theirs.  Am hoping connecting the with the Hoffman Tree owner will get me in touch with family who will know more.

http://chrysalis.its.uct.ac.za/CGI/cgi_RootWeb.exe?entry_point=Marriages

Thanks so much again!
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: JeannieR on Wednesday 11 May 11 10:52 BST (UK)
Hi.

What a fantastic site ! I have been playing with it for a hour.

I did find Annie's death age 86 , and burial 1 / 7 1962 at Pinelands 1 Cemetery , Cape Town
Section 4b grave 4662. No other details......

However !

Abraham Hoffman
Avraham ben Mordecai Noah / Grave 4661

Annie Hoffman
Haya bat Yitzchak Yosef / Grave 4662

Marcus Noah Hoffman
Mordecai Noach ben Avraham / Grave 10845

I got this information from Jewish Cemetery, Cape Town Administration site
You can contact them at  exec@uoscape.co.za

I think this means we are still looking for the Palestrant connection ?

JeannieR
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: thecohens on Wednesday 11 May 11 17:26 BST (UK)
I did find Annie's death age 86 , and burial 1 / 7 1962 at Pinelands 1 Cemetery , Cape Town
Section 4b grave 4662.
...
Annie Hoffman
Haya bat Yitzchak Yosef / Grave 4662

...
I got this information from Jewish Cemetery, Cape Town Administration site
You can contact them at  exec@uoscape.co.za

I think this means we are still looking for the Palestrant connection ?
How cool!  No, these are likely to be my family.  Isaac Joseph's birth certificate will be a better source to confirm that we do indeed have the right Hoffman family.

Yitzchak Yosef  translates to Isaac Joseph, Joseph is still in the name, and if this is the right Hoffman family, it gives me Moses Palestrant's father's full Hebrew name.  It also tells us exactly who Annie and Abraham's son Isaac Joseph was named after.

Thanks for finding the cemetery site.  I am going to explore, it may help with a lot of my other research.
Title: Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
Post by: cohenvernonportner on Monday 07 December 15 00:01 GMT (UK)
I am quite excited !!

Looking to ascertain Jack Cohen's parentage I came across this family

1891 census
49 Hope Street, Leeds

Hyman COHEN / head / age 30 / Travelling Jeweller / born Russia
Betsy Cohen / wife / age 29 / born Russia
JACOB Cohen / son / age 10 / born Russia
Owe Cohen / daughter / age 7 / born Leeds
Abraham Cohen / son / age 5 / born Leeds
Joseph Cohen / son / age 3 / born Leeds
JANE POTESTRANT / mother in law /married / age 46 / born Poland

The actual image is very good, and it looks to me as if the first T, is in fact a L
Although it states Jacob was born in Russia, there is birth registration for a Jacob Issacher Cohen in Leeds at that time.......
Wow, very good!  Hmmm, I guess we wait to see the other Jacob Cohen's birth cert to see if this little fellow is Jacob Issachar or just Jacob.   I recall seeing this Potestrant before and not placing her. I wonder who and where her husband is but I guess we should wait and see the certificate.

But it looks like you are on to something big.  Too bad all the records where my family was from in Makow were destroyed thru 1897, it would make it a whole lot easier if they had survived to research this.


I recognise some of these names please get in touch