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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Pembrokeshire => Topic started by: sherby on Monday 21 March 11 20:31 GMT (UK)
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For many years now I have been trying to find Thomas Herbert, born St Brides Pembrokeshire c 1822 and his brother James Herbert, born c 1836 St Brides Pembrokeshire. Last found in the St Brides 1851 census. Their father was William Herbert a carpenter.
Any help would be appreciated.
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Hi
The 1851 shows Thomas as a mariner which may be why you can't find him on later censuses.
If brother James followed in his footsteps...................
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to find Thomas Herbert, born St Brides Pembrokeshire c 1822 and his brother James Herbert, born c 1836 St Brides Pembrokeshire. Last found in the St Brides 1851 census. Their father was William Herbert a carpenter.
I was up at the Record Office today. There is no reference at all to any Herbert's being baptised in the established church in the St Brides area or surrounding parishes.
This would appear to suggest that they must have been baptised in non-conformist chapel.
The above said pre 1837 all mrge (whatever faith followed) had to take place in the established church and there is no reference to the mrge of a William Herbert that I can find other than I do have 2 references to the mrge of a William Herbert in my database of all parish registers of Pembroke St Mary in 1832 and 1834, they are both shown as 'bach otp' with no occupation shown.
Sorry can be of so little assistance
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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Not sure if this is the same person but he may have knocked off a few years because he had a young wife!
1881
Thomas Herbert Head age 50 born Pembroke, Wales Mariner
Fanny Herbert Wife age 39 born Pembroke, Wales
M. Herbert Dau age 14 born Pembroke, Wales
S.J. Herbert Dau age 6 born Cardiff
M.E. Herbert Dau age 3 born Cardiff (Mary E on 1891)
A.M. Herbert Dau age 2 born Cardiff (Alice M on 1891)
M.A. Herbert Lodger (female) age 19 born Cardiff (
2 Christina St, Cardiff St Mary, Glamorgan
RG11 Piece 5280 / 119 Page 41
1891 13 Francis St Cardiff
Thomas says age 59 and born Langham, Pembroke (Llangwm?) so perhaps it's not the same man :-\
RG12 Piece 4396/ 67 Page 68
Marriage of Thomas Herbert and Fanny Hire in 1866
Havefordwest volume 11a page 1093
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In the 1881 I suggest ‘Pembroke’ relates to county of birth not town of birth.
Thomas Herbert was baptised at Llangwm in 1837, I had not mentioned him previous due to him not fitting
a] the required date and
b] there being no James Herbert baptised in the area.
Frances (with an ‘e’ not ‘i’) Hire was baptised a Freystrop in 1843, but born in 1840.
;) ;) Morgan's suggestion does throw up an interesting idea ;) ;),
as the 1841 census shows Thomas Herbert aged 13 as "son of the wife" with his sister Sarah Herbert aged 7 and George Herbert aged 10.
We can therefore presume that Thomas Phillips aged 24 had mrd Martha Herbert aged 35, a widow at some point prior to 1841.
I do note that a William Herbert was buried at Llangwm in 1837.
There I would surmise that the mrge of Thomas Phillips to Martha Herbert took place in the 4th Qtr of 1840 in the H'west registration district probably at Llangwm (I can check if required).
So if someone can find Thomas (aged 34 ish) & Martha Phillips(aged 45 ish) in the 1851 it might give a lead to the mrge location of William Herbert to Martha (?), my bet still is that it did not happen in Pembrokeshire.
The above is only of use if the originator of this thread considers it so.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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Hi
From the 1851
Thomas Phillips,35,Fisherman
Martha,Wife,43,Fisherman`s wife
Sarah Herbert,18,Wife`s Daughter
Elizabeth Jones ,Vistor,Nursing
George Herbert,2,Vistor
All born Llangwn
Living Langum,Llangwn
Kind Regards
omega :)
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Hi
On the 1841,Living Begelly Gate,all born of County
Thomas Herbert, 35,Collier
Martha, 25
Elizabeth, 7
Sarah,5
Mary,3
James, 1
Hope this helps
omega
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Thank you for all your comments but I think they may have left the country:
Thomas Herbert was baptised at St Brides 1822, privately, and then brought into the church 1839. No baptism found for James although some other siblings were (not all for some resaon).
Father William was married to Mary Lewis at Camrose parish 1813.
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All baptism private or otherwise are entered into the the Baptism Register. Thomas Herbert was not under any circumstances baptised in 1822 at St Brides.
A Thomas Herbert was baptised at St Brides in 1839 and he had been born in 1822. That does not indicate in any way that Thomas was born at St Brides, in fact such a difference in a childs birth and baptism normally indicates the family are new incomers to the parish at some point very close to or in 1839. I further note, Family Search website does give parents as William & Mary this does not indicate any mrge connection to St Brides or indeed Pembrokeshire.
There is absolutely no reference to any mrge of a William Herbert at Camrose in 1813.
What did happen in 1813 was that
William HARBERT mrd Mary Lewis at Camrose on the 15 Apr 1813
And
Thomas HARBERT mrd Martha Rogers at Llangwm on the 08 Apr 1826
(Martha the widow who mrd Thos Phillips perhaps)
One other entry of interest
Thomas HARBERT a Mariner mrd Dorothy Davies of Burton at Llangwm 02 May 1829
So clearly we have all been chasing the wrong surname, it is Harbert and not Herbert
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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Hi
1841 census,the image is clear
Living St Brides Bay
William HARBERT 45 Carpenter
Mary,Wife,45
Edward,15
David,10
Robert,11
Elizabeth,9
Mary,8
JAMES,1
omega
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Further to my previous I think you will find eventually that Thomas Herbert of the 1881 census at 2 Christinia St., was in fact baptised at Llangwm in 1832 as Thomas Harbett and was probably named after his elder brother Thomas Harbett (1828~1831) along with his sister Elizabeth baptised 1831 also at Llangwm.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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Hi
I think its a case of the surname being spelt differants ways according to who was being told & writing I E, Vicar or enumarator (census)
omega
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I have the Herberts in the 1841 census thanks, and also 1851 in St Brides. William was born in Camrose according to 1851.
There were several baptisms for children of William Herbert carpenter and Mary in St Brides.
All I have seen with my own eyes at Haverfordwest record Office not from Family search -
Esther 02/04/1820
Elizabeth 21/04/1833
Mary Ann 16/01/1835
Apart from thomas there were no baptisms found for the other sons - Edward, Robert, Thomas, David and James. Edward followed in his fathers footsteps and became a carpenter.
I have marriage certificates and other census to verify that they are the children of William Herbert the carpenter of St Brides. And yes there have been many spellings for the name Herbert - Harbutt, Harbet etc.
Thanks for taking the time to look.
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Could these Harbets be the brothers of Hannah Harbet born 1784 Camrose?
Susie