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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: aspin on Monday 21 March 11 21:25 GMT (UK)
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Jessie McKenzie Sutherland was born 1889 Sutherland Scotland
daughter of John Sutherland and Janet (Jessie) McKenzie
In familyseach I have found her married to David Alexander Gunn
26.1.1912 Vancouver Canada this making her 23 years old
Any help on emigration or family would be most helpfull
Elizabeth
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Just a quick start, but David enlists in WW1 from New Westminster, BC, occupation is road foreman. He gives his next of kin as Jessie Mackenzie Gunn from New Westminster.
Here's a link to his Attestation papers with the CEF.
http://tinyurl.com/45s28tw
David dies in September of 1940, and is a widower by this time.
Here's a link to the Bowell Funeral Home record.
http://www.nwpl.ca/bowell/bowell.php?operation=Display&id=9957
Try searching that site for other references to the Gunns, and you might locate some children or another line of family.
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Thank You
cocarson
I have fun with this tonight
I couldn't find Jessie's death
and no family is there another site like that for births please
Elizabeth
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From what I can see on David's funeral card, it looks like they may not have had any children, or at least not any that outlived him.
I've also had trouble finding Jessie's death, but both David and Jessie are buried in the Fraser Cemetery in New Westminster BC.
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Thank You she wouldn't come under the name of Janet as that is a family name too
Elizabeth
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Hi Elizabeth,
Canada has strict privacy laws and births are protected for 100 to 120 years depending on the province.
Here's the link to the BC Cemetery Finding Aid. There are 11 records for Gunns buried in Fraser cemetery.
http://www.islandnet.com/bccfa/homepage.html
I found your Jessie's immigration to Canada. There was a Jessie M. Sutherland, age 21, domestic, born Scotland, aboard the Dominion sailing from Liverpool arriving Portland, Maine on March 30, 1912. She was destined to Vancouver, BC, to join her fiance, Mr. Gunn. If you would like to see the image, send me your email address via PM and I'll forward it.
I've searched both the BC Archives and the pilot family search sites for Jessie's death but have had no luck. Have you checked for a death in Scotland on the off-chance that she may have returned to Scotland for a visit and passed away there?
Susan
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Was Jessie's middle name McKay or McKenzie? The marriage registration you referred to has it as McKenzie and indicates she was born in Caithness, not Sutherland.
There is a Janet McKay Sutherland who was born in Olrig, Caithness on 25 Feb 1890 but her parents were James Sutherland and Isabella Ritchie.
There is a Jane MacKenzie Sutherland who was born in Rogart, Sutherland on 24 Sep 1887 but her parents were Donald Sutherland and Elspeth MacKenzie.
There is a Jessie Sutherland on the 1891 Scotland census who is listed as the daughter of John and Jane Sutherland in Clyne, Sutherland who was born about 1885. From looking at births, none of those Jessie/Jane/Janets have a middle surname listed in the search results.
Do you have her birth registration from Scotland? I can't seem to find a Jessie/Janet/Jane McKay Sutherland who was born in Sutherland at that time.
The only Jessie McKay Sutherland I can find who was born in Sutherland to a John Sutherland and Jessie McKenzie was born in Kildonan, Sutherland on 1 Aug 1864.
Jacquie
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Sorry I have just noticed i put McKay instead of McKenzie for Jessie's middle name
I have that many McKenzie all related but some they are entered as Mackenzie
Sorry about this
Jessie born in Kildonan is mine too
familysearch has the marriage of Jessie McKenzie Sutherland Parents John and Jessie McKenzie
Elizabeth
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Sorry I have just noticed i put McKay instead of McKenzie for Jessie's middle name
familysearch has the marriage of Jessie McKenzie Sutherland Parents John and Jessie McKenzie
If you go to your intial post and click on modify you can correct her name in the post and thread title.
Jacquie
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I'm still a little confused. In your first post you indicated that the Jesse Sutherland you are looking for was born in Sutherland. From looking at the passenger list entry that Susan found it says that Jesse was born in Caithness just as her marriage registration also says.
What information on Jesse do you have other than the marriage registration in BC?
Jacquie
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Jacquie,
I had a this all written out and all of a sudden it disappeared
So Here I go for the second time
Starting with the first Jessie as I have so many
Jessie McKay Gordon ( mother ) born 1812 M Alexander McKenzie
Daughter Janet ( Jessie ) McKenzie b 1840
Daughter Jessie McKay Sutherland b 1864
in 1861 census Janet ( Jessie ) is living at home under the name of Jessie McKenzie (not Sutherland )on the bottom of the census is Roberta McKenzie daughter B 1860 and Angus Sutherland grandson b 1860.......................... So I found the births of these two little ones lucky on the one page scotlands people so I got 2 for the price of one and found mother and daughter were pregnant together ..Mother 48 Roberta's and Angus mother Jessie father John Sutherland .I found the marriage of Jessie to John Sutherland 1859. They went on to have 8 children one named Jessie McKay Sutherland born 1864.I began to think did the first Jessie die and they had another naming her Jessie McKenzie Sutherland this would make her mother 49 years old a late birth like her own mother as familysearch have Jessie McKenzie Sutherland's parents as John Sutherland and Jessie McKenzie .Hope you can follow this
Elizabeth
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I found a marriage for Jessie McKay Sutherland, domestic servant, daughter of John Sutherland, coachman and Jessie McKenzie to Robert Munro, police constable, son of Donald Munro, gameskeeper and Mary Sims (deceased) in St. George, Edinburgh on 2 Jun 1892. So definitely not two daughters named Jessie born to John Sutherland and Jessie McKenzie. Jessie McKay Munro, wife of Robert Munro, police constable, daughter of John Sutherland, coachman and Jessie McKenzie died 7 May 1898 at the Royal Asylum in Edinburgh.
From the 1881 Scotland census at House Roadside, Swiney, Lathon, Caithness:
Jessie Sutherland, 37, born Helmsdale, Sutherland, wife of coachman
Jessie Sutherland, 16, born Helmsdale, Sutherlandshire
Maggie Sutherland, 11, born Latheron, Caithness
Alexander Sutherland, 10, born Latheron, Caithness
Minnie Sutherland, 8, born Latheron, Caithness
John Sutherland, 7, born Latheron, Caithness
Williamina Sutherland, 3, born Latheron, Caithness
Annie Sutherland, 5 months, born Latheron, Caithness
At ScotlandsPeople there is a birth for a Jessie Sutherland (illegitimate) who was born 28 Nov 1886 in the Village of Swiney. Her mother was Jessie Sutherland (domestic servant).
To me it seems likely that Jessie (born 1865) had an illegitmate daughter named Jessie who was then raised by her grandparents John Sutherland and Jessie McKenzie. If Jessie (born 1886) was raised by her grandparents she may have listed them as her parents on documents.
Jacquie
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Thank You
Jacquie
I will have a look for Jessie born 1886 birth in scotlandspeople
Elizabeth
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I have just got the birth of Jessie
illagitimate daughter of Jessie Sutherland
I have also gone into 1891 census and found the family
You are right little Jessie is with them along with some more that might be illagitimate
John Sutherland 49 Head Coachman
Jessie Sutherland wife 47
Alexander Sutherland son 19 Draper
John Sutherland son 15 Scholar
Williamina Sutherland Daur 12 scholar
Annie Sutherland daur 8 scholar
Ina Sutherland daur 4
Jessie Sutherland daur 4
all born Latheron
Elizabeth
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Here's a little more to add to the mystery of Jessie.
I spoke via email with one of the reference folks at the New Westminster Public Library, and I think the reason no one can find Jessie's death is she wasn't recorded as a Gunn.
Here's the response I got, which really made me go .... hmmmmmm
In the Fraser Cemetery records there is a BUDGE, Jessie Gunn who was buried under the name of BUDGE, Jessie Sutherland . There are 2 records of Budge, Jessie Sutherland. They are as follows:
BUDGE, Jessie Sutherland..<SOUTH>.. Jessie Sutherland/ Budge / Born Caithness, Scot. / Died / Jan15, 1914. Aged 72 years
BUDGE, Jessie Sutherland..<NORTH>.. Jessie Gunn / Wife of John Budge 155-1896 / Christine E Budge / 1890-1965
I Do Believe I Will Believe
That Jesus Died for Me
..<EAST> .. Margaret A / Daughter of John and Jessie / Budge/ 1884-1901
It looks to me like the first Jessie is the mother and the second Jessie would be the younger one who repoertedly marries David Gunn. Trouble is, the second Jessie here dies in 1896 at 43, which is not possible for your Jessie.
Are we certain that the Jessie you are looking for is the same one who marries David Gunn? Jessie McKay Sutherland is really quite different from Jessie Mackenzie Sutherland.
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According to BC Death records on the pilot family search site, the Jessie Sutherland Budge who died at age 72 in 1914 was single and the daughter of Donald Budge and Annie Nichol.
Susan
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This has happened twice to me lately on this thread
Looks like Jessie does not want to be found
I had a letter written here and its gone somewhere but not to rootschat so will try again
First of all as suggested by Jacquie I amended the subject to the correct name ...Jessie McKenzie Sutherland ...
she was the illegitimate daughter of Jessie McKay Sutherland born 1886 .
Jessie McKenzie Sutherland was brought up by her grandparents John Sutherland a coachman and his wife Jessie McKenzie we think as she is with them in 1891 census as a daughter aged 4
So I think we are on the right track
In familysearch she is married to David Gunn living in Canada and shows her parents as John Sutherland and Jessie McKenzie you have given me the information on David so its back to Jessie .
Elizabeth
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Whew. I love family mysteries ;)
Second letter from the NWPL regarding the graves in Fraser Cemetery.
Hi Chris,
I received a call from the caretaker who went out to look at the stones and confirmed there is no Jessie Gunn buried next to David Alexander Gunn at Fraser Cemetery.
The unfortunate thing about some of the cemeteries in New West from the era is that some are no longer there, and records are sparse about the ones that are gone. I'll keep digging, I'm sure she will turn up somewhere under one of the names or another....
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LOL yes I too like a mystery
Thank goodness I didn't get named Jessie after my by gone relatives
Thanks again
Elizabeth
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Jessie McKenzie Sutherland was born 1889 Caithness Sutherland Scotland
daughter of John Sutherland and Janet (Jessie) McKenzie
In familyseach I have found her married to David Alexander Gunn
26.1.1912 Vancouver Canada this making her 23 years old
Any help on emigration or family would be most helpfull
Elizabeth
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Sorry about this post I'm back looking for the death of Jessie McKenzie's death
born Caithness Sutherland Scotland b 1889
She married David Alexander Gunn he died 1940 and found his headstone as a widow
On the headstone is David his brother Donald and an Isabella 1894 to 1960
I have searched family search and Scotland people but cannot find a death for Jessie
I was looking back on this page to find more details to finish off this part of my family tree
Cheers
Elizabeth
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At a quick glance - didn't see any reference to an obituary for David. This one does not mention his wife Jessie.
The Vancouver Sun (Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) 28 Sep 1940, Sat - Page 25
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/28758596/david_alexander_gunn/
Sandra
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Another obit listed - The Province (Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) 28 Sep 1940, Sat - Page 21
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/28758710/the_province/
Sandra
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Thank you Sandra once more for your help
this is interesting how do I get his war records
I have the births of the twins David and Donald
Jessie seems a mystery doesn't she
Elizabeth
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That's great thanks again your a gem
gives me more to search for next week ??? ;D ;D
Elizabeth
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Canadian Attestation Papers - David Alexander Gunn
https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/personnel-records/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=431593
Sandra
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Donald John Gunn marriage to Isabella Galbraith. 24 September 1915
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JD8J-KLQ
Sandra
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Donald John Gunn death - 24 April 1958 New Westminster BC - Informant son J A Gunn
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FL51-NLP
Certificate - http://search-collections.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/Image/Genealogy/4f970372-3764-49e1-a1f5-37e88675c52d
Sandra
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Attestation Papers for Donald John Gunn
https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/personnel-records/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=431601
Sandra
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You probably have this one.
FIND A GRAVE
Donald John Gunn - 1885 - 1958
Fraser Cemetery New Westminster, Greater Vancouver Regional District, British Columbia, Canada.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/144854718
Sandra
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Isabella Gunn (wife od Donald John) Informant son James Gunn.
Death certificate.
http://search-collections.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/Image/Genealogy/22e4742f-92b4-422e-811d-a004714d3703
Sandra
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Family thanks - Isabella Gunn
The Vancouver Sun (Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) 19 Jul 1960, Tue - Main Edition - Page 23
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/28759207/thanks_isabella_gunn/
Sandra
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Obituary Isabella Gunn
The Province (Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) 13 Jul 1960, Wed - Other Editions - Page 2
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/28759249/isabella_gunn/
Sandra
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The son James Andrew Gunn passed away 12 February 1972 - New Westminster BC.
Spouse's Name Laura Alexandria Mclean. Informant was his wife.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FLT4-6R1
Death Cert - http://search-collections.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/Image/Genealogy/546e756e-1c2f-4853-a5da-daa0ed323928
Sandra
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FIND A GRAVE
James Andrew Gunn
Hatzic Cemetery Hatzic, Fraser Valley Regional District, British Columbia, Canada
Plot 20 23
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/92983747
Sandra
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FIND A GRAVE wife of James Andrew Gunn
Laura Alexandra Gunn 1915 - 1998
Hatzic Cemetery Hatzic, Fraser Valley Regional District, British Columbia.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/100119169/laura-alexandra-gunn
Not finding anything on Jessie :-\
Sandra
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Donald and Isabella were in New Westminster in 1921 with 2 children. (under Guan)
Donald John Guan 35
Isabella Guan 27
James Andrew Guan 6
Isabel Margaret Guan 2
http://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=Census1921&op=img&id=e002873975
Sandra
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GUNN, Jessie Fraser New Westminster Southwestern BCGS-C-55
http://bccfa.islandnet.com/bccfa-search.php
GUNN, David Alexander Fraser New Westminster Southwestern BCGS-C-55
http://bccfa.islandnet.com/bccfa-search.php
Both are listed at Fraser. New Westminster. Must surely be buried together.
No death certificate for Jessie :-\
Sandra
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Gosh Sandra you've been busy
Iv'e been away all afternoon just catching up now
Thank You once more
Elizabeth
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There is a photo of the grave marker at the following site:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/144854717/david-alexander-gunn#view-photo=119390646
From the inscription, it appears that David Alexander is buried with his brother Donald and sister-in-law Isabella.
Susan
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Thank you Susan yes I have this one
Elizabeth
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Gosh Sandra you've been busy
Iv'e been away all afternoon just catching up now
Thank You once more
Elizabeth
You're very welcome, pleased to try and help. Sorry I couldnt find any trace of a death notice/obituary or divorce in the newspapers.
Jessie still remains a mystery.
Regards
Sandra
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I looked in Scotland people like you thinking she had come home picked up two I thought be her got the certificates but the parents on both were not hers
She might pop up somewhere 😔😔
Elizabeth
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Jessie Mckenzie Gunn tried to cross the border to the USA 23 Jan 1918 but was debarred. She did indicate she had been in the US in 1917 for a visit. She was going to visit a Mr Foster. Relative husband David, 47th Btn at the front.
Don't see any other sign of her.
I was wondering if you have contacted the cemetery to inquire about the Jessie Gunn burial?
PB
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Whew. I love family mysteries ;)
Second letter from the NWPL regarding the graves in Fraser Cemetery.
Hi Chris,
I received a call from the caretaker who went out to look at the stones and confirmed there is no Jessie Gunn buried next to David Alexander Gunn at Fraser Cemetery.
The unfortunate thing about some of the cemeteries in New West from the era is that some are no longer there, and records are sparse about the ones that are gone. I'll keep digging, I'm sure she will turn up somewhere under one of the names or another....
Hi Polarbear,
There was this reference in 2011 that the caretaker had been out and checked there was no Jessie buried next to David. The headstone for David also indicated Donald John and his wife Isabella were buried with David.
Sandra
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Thanks *Sandra*
I guess I missed that bit when I scanned the earlier posts.
PB
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Wow its getting better
I was making the tea when my phone pinged and when I looked here once more rootschat calling
Thank you Polarbear and Sandra
I'm now sitting at my computer having my tea my husband says I'm barmy
I have been through all sorts of sites looking again this afternoon
Many thanks again
Elizabeth
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Lol. Your Jessie is my obsession at the moment, morning noon and night ;) ;) She is very evasive. Nothing on census :-\ Frustrating. :'(
Sandra
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I've been sitting here looking at a site that came up when I Gooled the name Gunn's of Caithness ???
Interesting all about the clans history in Scotland
Got to go and get the dishes done or I'll get my p45
Speak
Later
Elizabeth