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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Neil Todd on Tuesday 22 March 11 00:21 GMT (UK)
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Hi i am trying to trace what became of my GGAunt Mary Ann Todd b1839. She came to australia in 1854 on the ship Kate and the family settled in Sydney at Chippendale where her father William passed away in 1859.
I have checked resources and have come up with a possible. May have married a Charles Jackson in Victoria in 1860 then she disappears and my next referance is a death of a Mary A Jackson Pyrmont Sydney in 1883. It has correct first names for parents William and Ann... could be a stretch.
Did she have children? What are their names and births where and so on? Did they have children? Lots of question marks sorry.
Thanks in advance for any help
Neil
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I cannot locate a marriage for a Charles Jackson to Mary Todd in Victoria in 1860 or at any other time
However I can see a marriage to a James Jackson in 1860 in Victoria
Jenn
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Hi there,
NSW Electoral Roll 1878 for seat of West Sydney, polling place PYRMONT
Issac JACKSON, residence 32 Mount St Pyrmont ! Warning though, there's many with that surname in and around Pyrmont in that era, some were descendants of families who were still living at The Rocks.
I will look up my trusty book on Pyrmont!
Cheers, JM.
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Hi there,
City of Sydney Assessment books (include names of the tennants as well as their landlords, eg perhaps look for a Mrs Jackson)
Pyrmont was in the Denison Ward
http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/AboutSydney/HistoryAndArchives/Archives/ServicesForResearchers/AssessmentBooks00.asp
Cheers, (still looking for my trusty book)
JM
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Info on the book (no mention of TODD or JACKSON in the index)
ISBN 0 86806 514 5 Pyrmont and Ultimo : Under Siege
Fitzgerald & Golder
Part of a series of six books commissioned to mark the Sesquicentenary of the City of Sydney
The six titles
Chippendale : Beneath the Factory Wall
Surry Hill : The City Backyard
Millers Point : The Urban Village
Sydney 1842-1992
The Accidental City : Planning Sydney Since 1788
Pyrmont and Ultimo : Under Siege
Cheers, JM ... Sorry I don't have the one on Chippendale.
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Thanks Jenn & JM, Mary Ann has been a bit difficult to trace she has been an enigma in my tree since I tracked her father through the USA in the 1830/40s.
Mary Ann was born in Tennessee in 1839 they apparently went back to London and then came here.
I have what happened to her brother William 1835, her mother Ann d1865 and a lot of conjecture on her?
Dont know where I referanced the other marriage in 1860 it was some time back. Maybe it was James? If so what happened to them?
Neil
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Hi, I just checked the records for deaths NSW Charles Jackson, I think this is where I made a mistake, It has father as James and Mother as Mary A. This was in 1889 at Glebe name Charles F Jackson possibly a Son?????
Neil
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Here's the marriage your spoke of in Victoria:
JACKSON James m. TODD Mary Ann 1860 #3496
This possibly took place in the ECHUCA district on the border of VIC & NSW.
There are two children's births registered in country Victoria to them, possibly more if you search the NSW BDM considering the first one was registered at ECHUCA on the border of VIC & NSW before the other five years later in BENDIGO.
JACKSON William James b. 1861 ECHUCA #15517
Father: James
Mother: Mary Anne TODD
JACKSON Charles Frederick b. 1866 SANDHURST #10842
Father: James
Mother: Mary Ann TODD
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Hi Merlin, Thats fantastic! I was going off the wrong name. That makes sense these names. William after her father and Charles after her brother that died in London just prior to them leaving for Australia. Unfortunatly it looks like he (Charles F) only lived until 1889 when he is recorded at Glebe in Sydney.
I have come up with a couple of possibles two in Chippendale one in 1860 Sarah and another in 1862 Mary.....The family is building. There are quite a few which is going to make it hard to work out who is who????? there is a James and Elizabeth at Redfern Sydney 1864 & 75 respectively but could be anybody's also.
I wonder if Mr Jackson came from Echuca or elsewhere? I will keep checking!!
Neil
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Hi there,
Noticing two lads admission to Randwick Asylum on 5 August 1872
Charles JACKSON aged 9 and John Andrew JACKSON aged 7
Neil, I am not sure if the practices for recording ages of the children were pedantically accurate in that era, but do you have a John Andrew Jackson to James and Mary Ann.
Also noticing an intestate estate for a Mary Ann Jackson in 1901 in the Manly district, she a widow.
And among several intestate ones for James .... there's a James in 1874 in Sydney.
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/keyname.aspx
(Jackson is not as popular as say Smith or Jones, but there's soooooo many of those Jacksons ... its the elimination of the 'wrong 'uns ;) )
Cheers, JM
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Hi , I didn't really have much until an hour ago, some suppositions that proved sort of correct if in an roundabout way??
I dont have any John Andrew's, what Randwick Asylum? would they be referring to a hospital? Also dont have any connection to Manly except thats were I met my wife.41st anniversary yesterday. I originally had her pencilled in as 1883 which was pretty young. Could be wrong though, but how come her death is not on BMD?
Neil
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This link will explain about the Randwick Asylum for Destitute Children:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0cck/
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Randwick Asylum .... as in where children (err boys) were placed when they had no one caring for them
THANKS MERLIN, was just looking for that link too ...
Manly ... ;D (I'm being cheeky) did you really mean you wife was born in 1883 ...
Deaths not on BDM online...
short version .... even after civil registrations commenced, the practise of forwarding quarterly returns to the NSW Reg General's BDM office has had its troubles. Up until WWI one of the issues was funding. Also re death certs .... it may seem surprising now, but even until WWI it was possible for a cleryman to bury a person if he was satisfied that the identity had been established, and to bury without a doctor certifying that the person was deceased. Thus there was no document for anyone to complete to forward to the NSW BDM Reg Gen to then issue a formal death certificate. Also, a funeral director could bury without a doctors certificate IF he was directed to so do by a coroner. I have noticed several instances where there was the inquest but no d. c. on the NSW BDM index.
In a practical sense, at the end of each quarter of each year one of the clerical tasks required by the deputy registrars (or their staff) was to compile the returns for HO... When these were completed they were then sent by ordinary mail to HO .... and until the introduction of the typewriter into NSW BDM HO the info was then transferred into HO's ledgers by HANDWRITING ... thinking about how many hands involved, transcription errors etc). So, if a return was either a) not prepared or b) lost in the mail or c) too hard to read and discreetly 'lost' in the paperwork at HO ... then the name is NOT found on the INDEX ....
(And err that's a short version.... sorry)
Cheers, JM
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Is this your Ann TODD's funeral notice inserted by her daughter Mary Ann JACKSON:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0ccl/
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Hmm, No bit later than that ;D. I was referring to Mary Ann Jackson/Todd. ::)
Gee no certifying doctor, no wonder they buried them with bells to ring. I probably need to find out about this Mary Ann jackson death 1901. Intestate,no will,wonder what happened then. If the kids were sent to the Asylum then they were in there with an awfull lot of family. There were 154 Jacksons in there up to 1901??? Like a second home to them. ???
I think my parents said they were going to send me to a home several times. never knew what they were on about?
These jacksons are a bit thick on the ground as you say. Who'da thought. Might have to go and find some certs if I want to progress.
Anyway to check Glebe Sydney for residents? A couple of births in that area for parents same name?
Getting somewhere, thanks all
Neil :D
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Merlin, did you notice that the notice immediately above was inserted by William TODD ... ;)
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Several notices for Mary Ann JACKSON's death & funeral in the newspaper.
Naming husband James, son William & brother William :D
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0ccm/
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Merlin, did you notice that the notice immediately above was inserted by William TODD ... ;)
Yes, JM & I just listed Mary Ann's also naming the same family ;D
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Hi Neil,
I have already got to my trusty book re Glebe ... there's a Harold JACKSON, a clerk who fell on the Western Front in France, he had written a letter from Lone Pine,... otherwise, no mention of Jackson or Todd in the index of that trusty book.
Re Rates books etc for Glebe/Forest Lodge ... as far as I am aware, these are not yet indexed but are held by the City of Sydney waiting for volunteers to either start or complete the tasks involved.
Also, again from memory, I think the Balmain Cemetery records may be hard to find. Merlin may have some more reliable knowledge than me though.
Cheers, JM
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Hmm, No bit later than that ;D. I was referring to Mary Ann Jackson/Todd. ::)
I was referring to her mother's death ;)
I have also given the links to Mary Ann (TODD) JACKSON's death notices for you to read also ;D
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Sorry merlin and Majm, Got out of sync. replies wont go from my puter until other posts have been done. Lousy satellite broadband.
The posts on family notices are great I had lost all trace in a computer meltdown some time back, backed up now! Frederick Cox, son in Law, means a Daughter?
The two Williams are father Son. Glebe makes sense. Thanks for all that it is opening up this area that i have neglected a bit in my searches back in UK.
Thanks
Neil
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Also, again from memory, I think the Balmain Cemetery records may be hard to find. Merlin may have some more reliable knowledge than me though.
I have to dissapear for a short while but I will check the cemetery records I have when I return later ;D
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City of Sydney Assessment Books for DENISON ward 1877 online (linked earlier see #3 reply)
Mrs Jackson, 56 Ultimo Road, Pyrnont, landlord/owner HARRIS family,
B & S (Brick and stone) building
shingled roof
2 floors, 4 rooms
valued at £30 pa (valuation for rates etc)
Cheers, JM
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Mary Ann and James must have had a daughter Ann C E Jackson who married Frederick Cox in Sydney in 1880.
She must have been born in Victoria as well as she doesn't come up in NSW?
Neil
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And Sadly she may have been named after
Ann JACKSON, aged 1, who died at OCE, Victoria, dau of James and Mary Ann .... VIC rego 1863, ref 28m (I think this 'm' indicates a modification to the record,)
JM
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Oh That is sad :'( They lost two children. I suppose more common than we have grown accustomed to. My own mother lost two.
The link to the assesment books looks like a great link to dig out some old facts. I had not used this. It never ceases to amaze me how you people,1 help so much and 2, know so many methods of ferreting out very useful facts.
It makes all of our searches so much better. :o
I will still have to find this other Ann who must have been quite young in 1880 if her predecessor died in 1863?
Modified, also meant to say the link to the landlord in Ultimo, Harris. Pretty famous landlord. Funny thing ::) he named his daughter Mary Ann and then a street was named for her. (Useless information file) 8)
Thanks Neil
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Victorian Certificates do have a good deal of information on them
If you are able to purchase the Wedding certificate of Mary Ann Todd and James Jackson it sould give her parents names and her place of birth etc
Registry of BMD Victoria
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=getHistIdxSearchCriteria
· Details on ALL Certificates for Victoria
· http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,373754.0.html
· http://www.jaunay.com/bdm.html
You can purchase and download to your computer.
Jenn
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Hi Jenn, If it is the right Mary Ann and it looks as if it is, given the posts with the Trove information. I already knew who, when and where she was born (just haven't figured out why Tennessee USA)
I had almost all other information on the whereabouts in NSW of all other members,JUST NOT HER. She disappeared off the radar in 1859 after her father William Snr's death. Now I am left with another quandry who was the Ann jackson that married Frederick Cox in 1880. Looks like a sepparate post after a bit of imaginative searching. Problem with me getting anything out of online BDM Vic is I dont possess a credit card, hate em. Wont have one!!!!
So its back to the old methods. Funny thing, its not set up for that anymore.
Ah well, "that old chinaman". Thanks
Neil
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For Majm, A connection to Manly?
Frederick Harford Cox whose wife was Ann Jackson married in 1880 died in Manly?4891/1936 COX FREDERICK HARFORD FATHER DANIEL HARFORD MOTHER HANNAH AT MANLY.
I cannot find a death for ANN or a Birth??? Now she is the enigma!!!
Neil :o
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Electoral Roll 1933
Frederick Cox 30 Victoria Pde Manly, traveller
Annie, same address, home duties.
1936
Annie at 30 Victoria Pde Manly, but NO Frederick...
Cheers, JM
PS, if you can get to a good local library or family history group, they may have access to those electoral rolls !
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Hi, Thanks for all that guys.
Now I have established the Ann to the Mary Ann and now it looks like ANNIE who apparently didn't die either.
Gee didn't they register their dead in this group????? Or for that matter their births properly either?????.
I can follow up with some names to work on now. :o
My thanks to all :D
Neil
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Neil,
Some of the various clergy in the various denominations had a great deal of difficulty coming to terms with the civil rules which oft clashed with their own church practices... particularly when it came to informing the civil authorities about members of their local parish. NSW parliamentary debates went on for DECADES and decades ... There was a great deal of mis-trust betwixt the civil and the ecclesiastical institutions... and they all had funding issues ....
What you are finding, doesn't appear to be any more odd than what I have found when tracing my tree back. I have the benefit of a wonderful set of family papers with various detailed records passed down to me going back on one NSW line to 1817, and it took me several decades to work through confirming/rejecting those details, getting certs, saving up for more certs etc. I have also re-validated the info since the internet came along, and more especially since that wonderful digitised newspaper site, TROVE ... came to my puter.
As I see it, you are only noticing the apparent long list of NO CERTS because we have been able to 'concertina' your searchings into such a short time span ... the tyranny of time being almost overcome by the internet and the current popularity of family history leading to so many resources being uploaded.
I remember my late gran who explained to me that although she was orphaned before QV had made Australia a Federation, some of my Gran's family had arrived in NSW before QV was ever even a twinkle in her Dad's eye. I inherited my Gran's "genealogy" notes books back when children were not permitted to even ask for access to the Reference books in the main (Adult) library. But our local librarian understood my desire to learn, so she turned a 'blind eye' as I devoured anything to do with NSW ... What a change in emphasis I have noticed in the way history is researched, themed, delivered and devoured over the past six decades or so...
Cheers, JM
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Re Records, thanks. When I was a little fella a couple of years ago now. i had sort of a Maiden Aunt. She was the only family historian, she had a little religious book with sayings. In it were pages alloted to months of the year BLANK. until she wrote in it all the family history she knew bit by bit year after year. Seems I was the only one who knew it was there in her dresser.
Many years after, I had the job of cleaning out her house after she passed on. I went with my eldest brother, the Ute and some blankets for wrapping. When we went to clean out the dresser, there was the book. I said to my brother keep it it has all the family history! 2 days later he rang me, he had a look at the book and found heaps of pages torn out. I painstakingly went through the book and found the impressions she had made when she wrote, I had to do this under a microscope.
She had erased all mentions of my Grandmother her Husband and her half sisters. She asked to be buried with her Grandmother not her mother to whom she was named after.
Scandal of any kind was not tolerated even for histories sake.
Neil
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Yes, well ... Gran had a separate note book for ALL the "scan-DELLS" and it is (from my point of view) the most interesting .... especially thanks to trove !
I do so hope you can put all the many pieces of this jigsaw together.
Cheers, JM
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The ending of the search...maybe...
What a family. Mary Ann Todd b1839 Tennessee USA comes to Australia in 1854. Moves to Victoria and marries James Jackson they have three children one of them, Ann b Victoria? c1860 Marries Frederick Cox in 1880 in Sydney.
They have 1 or 2 children then separate and Ann Dies destitute in 1906.
Meanwhile Frederick is having an affair with Catherine Ross because he has a child with her, their first Eliza in 1889 up in Gosford. They go on to have a few more (5) one of which they name ANNIE b1895. Fred decides to make an honest woman of Catherine and marries her in Manly in 1900 and they go on to have 4 more little Cox's prior to 1910 up in Gosford which fortunately is where the searches end anyway.
Catherine Cox died in Gosford in 1923 and Frederick in 1936 at Manly where he was married.
I get the feeling Fred may have cheated a bit on poor Ann but he sure left a legacy of children. He also left me a headache!!!!
Neil
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Does this help? I am soooo confused by this part of my family. I can't find anyone!!!
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https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/17320751?searchTerm=Cox%20frederick%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&searchLimits=l-state=New+South+Wales|||l-decade=193|||l-year=1936|||l-category=Family+Notices
Since this thread was in 2011 a lot of Australian newspapers have been digitalised on a site called Trove giving us a treasure trove, no pun intended...