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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Aberdeenshire => Topic started by: Biddydi on Tuesday 29 March 11 15:56 BST (UK)
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I am looking for my ancestors who were born in and around Pitsligo, Aberdeenshire (Kincardinshire) in the 1800's.
If anyone can help me here, please do. My grandfather was John Downie Trail born about 1894 and his father was Wilson Summers Trail, born about 1869, both born in this area. Grandmother was Isabella Allen born in same area about 1866. My grandfather had two brothers, Wilson Summers Trail and George Trail who was a doctor.
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Hi, welcome to rootschat. I've no connection with the Trail family but I have seen Dr.Trail's signature on some of my ancestor's death certificates! How much research have you already done? Have you traced the Trails through the censuses, for example? There are many people willing to help here on rootschat but it will save duplication of work if you let us know exactly what you're hoping to find out!
Regards,
flst
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Hello: We are only just starting out.
I got my information in my original posting from the 1901 census.
An auntie I have found is intending to post a notice in the newspaper in Aberdeen to see if she can find George and Wilson Summers.
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If you click on this link you'll be able to send an email to the editor of "The Fraserburgh Herald". This local newspaper will cover the areas you're interested in. I expect that your Aunt will be contacting the Press & Journal, a much larger newspaper with a huge coverage!
http://www.fraserburghherald.co.uk/community/letters-to-the-editor
Good luck!
flst
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You probably have the following information already, taken from the IGI and online censuses. However, it will help with answers if other people don't need to research this first. It starts with Alexander TRAIL and Jane DOWNIE being married. I'd try and do more, but it's time for my bed.
Alexander TRAIL and Jane DOWNIE married 1 Nov 1832, Pitligo:
William TRAIL born 1 Jul 1835, christened 8 Jul 1835, Pitligo.
John Downie TRAIL born 14 Aug 1838, christened 21 Aug 1838, Pitligo.
Jean TRAIl born 15 Aug 1840, christened 22 Aug 1840, Pitligo.
John Downie TRAIL 1838 (occupation white fisher) married Helen ROBERTSON (born 11 Sep 1844 in St Nicholas, Aberdeen) on 17 Jan 1865, St Nicholas, Aberdeen:
Rachel TRAIL born 11 Mar 1867, Pitligo.
Wilson Summers TRAIL born 22 Oct 1868, Pitsligo.
Richard Robertson TRAIL born 8 Aug 1871, St nicholas, Aberdeen.
Helen Ann TRAIL born 24 Sep 1873, St nicholas, Aberdeen.
According to the censuses, they also had the following children:
Alexander J TRAIL born abt. 1877, Aberdeen.
Margaret J TRAIL born abt. 1881, Aberdeen.
Wilson Summers TRAIL 1868 (occupation trawl net labourer) and Isabella had the following children (according to the census):
John TRAIL born abt 1894, St Nicholas, Aberdeen.
George TRAIL born abt 1896, St Nicholas, Aberdeen.
Wilson TRAIL born abt 1900, St Nicholas, Aberdeen.
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Wow, thank you tim.
Amazing. I did not have that info.
Can you see what happened to George Trail, the doctor or Wilson Summers Trail?
fist: I have passed the info along to my aunt. Thank you.
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Going further than I had the time to yesterday, you might also want to know the following.
I'm looking at the 1851 census, and there are some other children who are listed there and whose births are registered to Alexander Trail and JEAN (not Jane) Downie. I'd be confident the name is an error, and these are also the children of Alexander and Jane. Including the already listed children (William, John & Jean) for completeness:
Margaret TRAIL born 7 Jul 1833, christened 15 Jul 1833, Pitsligo.
William TRAIL born 1 Jul 1835, christened 8 Jul 1835, Pitligo.
John Downie TRAIL born 14 Aug 1838, christened 21 Aug 1838, Pitligo.
Jean TRAIL born 15 Aug 1840, christened 22 Aug 1840, Pitligo.
Ann TRAIL born 6 Aug 1846, Pitsligo.
Jessie TRAIL born 21 Feb 1849, Pitsligo.
Alexander TRAIL born 22 Nov 1853, Pitsligo.
Peter Sim TRAIL born 28 Aug 1855, Pitsligo.
I'm estimating Alexander to have been born about 1803 to 1813 (using the unscientific method of removing 20 to 30 years from the birth of his known first born). I'll also assume he was also born in Pitligo. There's an Alexander TRAIL born to a William TRAIL and Jane (possibly JEAN) RITCHIE in 1808. Strong candidate given his children's names. There's also an Alexander born to Alexander TRAIL and Christian DUTHIE in 1817. This would have meant Margaret would have been born when her father was only 16, and the name Christian isn't given to any of Alexander's children.
There's a Jane Downie born 2 Dec 1810 to John DOWNIE and Ann SIM. Taking this Jane, this would suggest Alexander we want is 1808:
Margaret - unaccounted for (but see Alexander's eldest sister born 1798)
William - named after paternal grandfather
John - named after maternal grandfather
Jean - named after paternal grandmother
Ann - named after maternal grandmother
Peter's middle name Sim - named after maternal grandmothers m.s.
So now we can add:
William TRAIL and Jane/Jean RITCHIE married 23 Nov 1797, Pitsligo.
Margaret TRAIL born 3 Nov 1798, Pitsligo.
Alexander TRAIL born 25 Aug 1800, Pitsligo.
Christian TRAIL born 21 Nov 1801, Pitsligo.
Jean TRAIL born 5 Jan 1803, Pitsligo.
Ann TRAIL born 29 Jun 1805, Pitsligo.
Alexander TRAIL born 4 Jun 1808, Pitsligo.*
John TRAIL born 23 Jun 1811, Pitsligo.
Barbra [sic] TRAIL born 2 Jul 1815, Pitsligo.
*This is the second Alexander to the family, which means Alexander born 1800 has died by the time this Alexander was born. Obviously this Alexander is your grandfather.
Finding William's birth is not so easy, and should be considered a guess. The BMDs should give more clues. However, using the 20-30 year guess, and looking in Pitsligo only, a John TRAIL and Grizel/Grizzel RITCHY/RITCHIE have the following children:
William TRAIL born 20 Mar 1771, Pitsligo
Alexander TRAIL born 23 May 1775, Pitsligo.
There's no indication in the names of William and Jane/Jean's children that this is the correct birth. But then, William apparently doesn't name any children after himself.
Similiary, take the following with a pinch of salt:
John TRAIL born 13 Jun 1741 to John TRAIL and Janet RITCHIE, Pitsligo.
That's as far as the easy stuff goes on the IGI. You should check all my dates add up, and grab the copies of the originals from Scotland's People. The details on the birth, marriage and death certificates will not only help to confirm the ancestry (using names, locations and occupations), but might tell you more about your ancestors. You should also look for censuses between 1841 and 1911 (1911 available next week).
You ask about George and Wilson Summers. To find out what happened to them, you'll need to look on Scotland's People. You know approximately when and where they were born, so you should have no problem geting their birth and death records. It's probable that you wont be able to see their death records online, so you'll need to find when they died (which given their year of birth should be fairly easy if they stayed in the Pitsligo area) and from there order an extract. If ordered from Scotland's People, the cost is currently £10, going up to £12 next week.
Hope that all helps. As I wrote, do check all the information I've given you. I've not done as much genealogy as I'd like to as my own Scottish ancestry is proving more elusive, but I hope I've got you started.
Tim
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Hello,
With a name like William Summers Trail, it's easy to find a death. In all of Scotland, 1855 to 2009 there are on 2 deaths to a person of that name. One is for a six year old boy in 1906, which I'd assume is a son of WS Trail senior. William Summers Trail died on 11th July 1937 - aged 67. At the time he was a 'ships stores foreman'. He was married to Isabella Allan. His parents were John Downie Trail and Helen Trail (M.S. Robertson).
All the needed bmds as 'Tim' has pointed out can be sourced from the official govt website at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk However, do not send off for certs - unless you have to - births up to 1910 deaths to abt 1958 and marriages to about 1937 can all be downloaded for £1.20 each. (one pounds twenty pence each - assuming a 1st time hit).
There are only a few George Trail deaths in all of Scotland of the right age. Assuming he died in Scotland. The most likely passed away in Aberdeen in 1967 - aged 67. SP shows that he had the middle name of Allan.
The site is free to register - and search, but to view and download costs. Min spend currently of £6.00 allows for the purchase of 30 credits which allows for the download of 5 bmds/or census entries - copies - not transctiptions. Good luck.
Regards, Steve
If you pm me your e-mail address I can forward the entry I downloaded. :)
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Tim and Steve:
Thank you so very much for all the wonderful information.
I will sit down and try to sort through it all and then go further. I will make further posts as I progress.
Steve: Don't understand about providing an e-mail address. I am very new at this. Can you not attach it to your initial message for it to come automatically into my e-mail account?
Biddydi
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Hi Biddydi
I'm really pleased that this is all coming together for you so quickly.
If you want to share a personal message in a manner that is not public, simply go to the last post of the person you want to communicate with and click on the little green scroll icon on the left side of the screen under the person's picture.
Happy searching and welcome to RootsChat.
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Ann Trail born 1846 Pitsligo dau of Alexander Trail (fisherman) and
Jane/Jean Downie married John Grant (shoemaker journeyman)June
19, 1875 Rathven Banffshire - Ann died August 11, 1922 at 5 Holburn
Street Aberdeen John died October 6 1927 same address
I have the names of their children,births, marriages & deaths of some
if u are interested I can post what I have..
Ann was a sister of yr John Downie Trail born 1838..
Rosina
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children of John Grant & Ann Trail & their families as follows:
Alexander John Grant (stonecutter) born 1876 Buckie, Banffshire married Mary Ann Simpson Oct 31, 1902 St. Nicholas, Aberdeen
Peter Grant (hairdresser master) born July 28, 1877 Pitsligo married Mary Jane Hay June 15, 1901 St. Nicholas Peter died April 13, 1948 Aberdeen
Mary Jane was born about 1881 & died 1955.
They had a son Peter Campbell Grant born May 29, 1902 54 Rosemount
Viaduct, Aberdeen
Isabella Grant born March 09, 1879 Pitsligo
Jessie Trail Grant born May 16, 1881 died November 7, 1885 Pitsligo
Charles Grant born August 19 1882 died September 2, 1882
James C. Grant born 1884 Pitsligo
Daniel Grant (hairdresser assistant) born March 24, 1887 married Alice Brewster September 24, 1912 268 Broomhill Rd. Aberdeen
Alice died July 1, 1945 14 Holburn Rd. Aberdeen... Daniel died 1960
They had a daughter Alice Brewster Grant born 1914 St. Machar,
Aberdeen - she married Matthew John Charlton in 1939.. She died in
1960
(source Scotlands People)
Rosina
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Hello,
My partner is descended from John Trail and Grizel Ritchie c.1741. If you think you may have them in your tree, we would be interested to hear from you and to exchange information.
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Hello fsmc:
It would appear that your partner and myself may be "relatives". How exciting.
I do have John Trail and Grizzel Ritchie in my tree.
They appear to be the mom and dad of William Trail who married Jane (Jean) Ritchie.
They in turn (William and Jane) were the mom and dad of Alexander Trail who married Jane (Jean) Downie.
I believe Alexander and Jane were mom and dad to John Downie Trail (born 1838).
John Downie Trail and his wife Helen Robertson were mom and dad to Wilson Summers Trail born 1868.
Wilson married Isabel Allan and were mom and dad to John Downie Trail, my grandfather.
John Downie Trail married my grandmother, Edith Isabel Moon.
My grandmother and grandfather had 3 children, one being Wilson Summers Trail. My dad.
My maiden name is Trail.
Does your partner have the "Trail" name There are a great number of Trails and it is very hard to sort it all out but I think I have it right, with a lot of help from the great people at RootsChat.
Would love to hear further from you.
Dianne
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hi pal,
thank you so much for your pm.
i have looked for the summers connection and think it may go back to the helen robertson connection as there was no summers before hand.
have found that helen's parents were david robertson and ann edwards who married 30/4/1839.
will try and source more detail
Joe
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I am new to this game. I want to know more about my grandfather, Alexander John Trail, born 18th July 1876. His father was John Downie Trail and mother Helen Robertson.
Do I have some distant relatives out there?
Thanks.
Iain
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Hello Iain.
It appears that we may be very distant relatives. sorry for the late response.
If you can look above in my postings, you will see my connection to your relatives.
Excerpt is: They in turn (William and Jane) were the mom and dad of Alexander Trail who married Jane (Jean) Downie.
I believe Alexander and Jane were mom and dad to John Downie Trail (born 1838).
John Downie Trail and his wife Helen Robertson were mom and dad to Wilson Summers Trail born 1868.
Wilson married Isabel Allan and were mom and dad to John Downie Trail, my grandfather.
John Downie Trail married my grandmother, Edith Isabel Moon.
My grandmother and grandfather had 3 children, one being Wilson Summers Trail. My dad.
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Hello I am related to John Downie Trail via his youngest brother Peter Sim Trail . It is good to know our family have grown and prospered over the years. John with his brother William joined the merchant navy on the 29 th May 1854. He was bound for 4 years to shipmaster Peter Sim on the vessel Wallace registered at Peterhead,prior to becoming a white fisher in Pitulli and Footdee. Helen and John had 3 other children Rachel, Alexander John and Maggie Jean. John Downie Trail died in 1916 and is buried in St Clements church yard Aberdeen.
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Alice Brewster ( mentioned above ) is in my tree. Lots of the Brewsters lived and died in Holborn Rd, Aberdeen x
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I am descended from William Trail who was born 1835, and was the son of Alexander Trail and Jane Downie. William was married twice, my Great Great Grandmother Margaret Mitchell Downie was his second wife. I have done a lot of research over the years into the Trail family and would be happy to help anyone who is also looking into this family.
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Hello,
My partner is descended from John Trail and Grizel Ritchie c.1741. If you think you may have them in your tree, we would be interested to hear from you and to exchange information.
Just came across your post … my husband descends via James Trail 1721 brother to your John I believe.