RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: Charlesworth on Wednesday 30 March 11 09:59 BST (UK)
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Today I got a copy of my g g grandmother's probate through, which confirmed that her son did NOT run off with all the family cash. It was always said he'd taken the money and properties that were meant for my g grandmother, but it turned out that after debts were paid there was only £31 left! (In 1927)
I have also found out a great grandfather didn't abandon his wife for my g grandmother as thought - they'd parted years before he met my g grandmother. But that g grandmother wasn't a widow as thought - she'd run off from her husband into the arms of my g grandfather!
I've been told stuff about people being 'killed by a shire horse' when no, it wasn't as exciting as that. There have been so many family myths that have been debunked and balloons burst. And always, along the line, somebody was supposed to have died of a broken heart. And yet it never comes up on the death certs! ;D
How about you all? I'd love to hear yours!
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Grandfather's grandfather's grandfather was a sea captain and 'died at sea'. Newpaper report says drowned in well at home!
Grandfather's grandfather born in Rhode Island (true), was a doctor in Dayton, Ohio (true) and went to Brown Univeristy in R.I. (they have no record of his attendance- turns out he moved to Ohio with mother and stepfather when a young boy and went to medical school in Ohio).
Uncle Harry was related to former U.S. President Richard M. Nixon (strangely enough never mentioned again after Watergate). True story- both families were Quakers and lived near each other in California.
Grandfather was English, orphan and only child- family from Ireland, mother died when he was 6 weeks old and father when he was 13 (but raised by oldest brother and sister- naturally the 'only child' bit was wrong- he was the youngest of ten children).
Original story- James Leslie Hunter died aged about 11 years old. Then, found old photo (labelled for a change) of 'James Leslie Hunter' in Bronx, N.Y. police uniform so looked like he survived and moved to America. Turns out there were two cousins in the family around the same age- one died young and other moved to New York with parents...
However, lots more family stories have been proven to be accurate so it's always worth checking just in case.
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We were always told that our paternal grandfather's first wife ran away to America leaving Grandfather with his two sons. The implication was that she left him alone to bring up two small children. However from checking out passenger lists we discovered she had left for New York when her sons were aged 20 and 14 and by then he had four more children with my grandmother.
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I always hear stories about hidden treasure or money.
Apparently straight after a funeral a family went to the house of the deceased and tore the place apart looking for alleged stash of money - no floorboard left unpulled etc. Needless to say, the deceased died penniless.
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My Spicer line came over with the Normans: strange that I can't trace them before 1821...
My great great grandad was a laypeacher when he was sober which wasn't often, and died in 1900 when he fell downstairs drunk and broke his neck: he turned out to be a coaldealer who died in bed of TB in 1901, and no, he wasn't a laypreacher (though his brother turned out to be a deacon)
Another great great grandad was brought up in someone else's family: no, but after his mother and most of his sisters died in the cholera outbreak, he, his brother and his Dad went into lodgings...
Family legends? Love 'em!
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Love these stories!
A friend had been told that her g grandfather was the illegitimate son of someone from the Bass brewery, and was named Bassey because of this. Turned out he was registered Thomas Bussey, the legitimate son of a gardener and his wife.
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Other than 'they came over with the Normans', though, most of my family legends have a grain of distorted truth in them somewhere...
I'll never find out if great great great auntie Eve was'feeble minded' as was thought by my Nan - she's not shown as having any disability on any census return, but then I can just imagine her mum thinking 'That's not anybody's business but ours' - however, as Eve was born when her mum was in her forties, the only illiterate one of her siblings and always lived a t home with her Mum, I wonder if perhaps she was a Downs Syndrome baby...
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My grandfather was an orphan and studied music at Keller Hall, although he apparently met my gran at a Manchester college of music. He was an orphan in that both his parents were dead by the time he was 15, but he gave the impression he was an only child. Wrong, he had 5 siblings. Keller Hall have no record of him at all and none of the Manchester colleges of music have a record of either him or my gran! As he was in the army from age 15 to 20, from where he was discharged to a mental asylum. He only stayed in 6 weeks and the records only give his date of entry and discharge. Less than 12 months later he and my gran were married. So when did either of them have time to be at a music college.
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You don't actually mention it but I guess you are aware that Kneller Hall is where army musicians are trained etc. Just a thought.
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My grandfather joined the Army at 14, fought in India, had a batman,spoke many languages and was a gentleman that had his nails manicured!!! He joined the Army at 18 (DOB from IGI) and didn't walk around the block to become 18 - he was stationed at Cape Town in South Africa but never fought in a battle and did not receive any medals - and on the 1911 he was a clerk on Liverpool Docks. The best one was that he had a military funeral which I have still to prove! I have his full military records which proves all these tales are untrue, he left SA before the start of the Boar War and had no medals but making my mother beleive this she will only beleive what she has been told. It could be because he was 30 years older than my grandmother and he wanted to knock a few years off.
This all comes from a family that holds lots of secrets and has lied on both marriage & census records, I have still to find the birth of my grandmother as I do not even know what name she was born under (I have posted several times on RC with no outcome) The story of her life is even more remarkable but we wont go there!
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My GrtGrandfather was reputed to be the illegitimate child of the son of the owner of a "Large House" in Derbyshire where my 2xGrtGrandmother was a servant. It was speculated that this may have been the Duke of Devenshire, which would mean we have Royal Blood in our family :)
I have found through my research that actually my GrtGrandfather's parents were married when he was born, but his Father (my 2xGrtGrandfather) was illegitimate - his Mother (My 3xGrtGrandmother) was a servant at a large house nr Dinnington before he was born. She was un-married when he was born and no Father's name is given on his birth cert. Not long after she was living with her uncle & appears to have later married this uncle :o and he is named as Father on my 2xGrtGrandfather's marriage cert ???
Not quite Royal Blood ;D
Regards,
Matt T.
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This is not a family legend but, rather, a newspaper legend. While it is true that Beulah Logan did survive the wreck of the missionary ship “Robert W. Logan” in The Mortlocks in 1899, I have not been able to verify the following story [summarized] from the New Oxford Item, New Oxford, Pennsylvania, 21 February 1907:
In 1900 Beulah Logan sailed on the steam ship “Aragul” from the Caroline Islands to Australia. Near New Ireland, she was swept overboard during a violent storm. Fortunately, she was a good swimmer and she was picked up by a boat manned by Christian Malays. This boat was then wrecked on a sandbar just two miles off New Ireland. A schooner was also wrecked and breaking up on the same bar. Just as the tide was rising and their boat began to float free, Beulah and the Malays saw a large group of cannibals in full war dress attacking the crew of the schooner. The cannibals clubbed and killed all 11 members of the schooner’s crew. Then they cooked and ate them while beating tom-toms, dancing and uttering “weird gutteral cries.” Beulah and the Malays were finally able to get their boat free but the cannibals caught sight of them and pursued them by canoe. As the cannibals gained on them, a German war ship from a nearby station came to their rescue and blasted the cannibal canoe with a four inch shell. Beulah was saved and thanked the Germans profusely.
I have found no confirmation for this story and suspect it was invented by the reporter to titillate the readers of the New Oxford Item.
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:) I read this thread with great interest. Yes it is amazing the 'oral histories' we hear from our families, that are unusually totally untrue or only have a grain of truth in them - that have somehow evolved over the years - like a game of chinese whispers. I too have got tales of Army families, 'love children' ancesters who fought in the battle of Trafalgar - but have yet to find them! not to mention the one born 'the wrong side of the blanket' to royalty - still looking! But I love hearing them all. :)
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Not from my family stories, but coinsidently I just recieved this e-mail from a friend:
It just all depends on how you look at some things..
Judy Wallman, a professional genealogy researcher in southern California, was doing some personal work on her own family tree.. She discovered that Senator Harry Reid's great-great uncle, Remus Reid, was hanged for horse stealing and train robbery in Montana in 1889. Both Judy and Harry Reid share this common ancestor.
The only known photograph of Remus shows him standing on the gallows in Montana territory. On the back of the picture Judy obtained during her research is this inscription: 'Remus Reid, horse thief, sent to Montana Territorial Prison 1885, escaped 1887, robbed the Montana Flyer six times. Caught by Pinkerton detectives, convicted and hanged in 1889.'
So Judy recently e-mailed Senator Harry Reid for information about their great-great uncle.
Believe it or not, Harry Reid's staff sent back the following biographical sketch for her genealogy research:
"Remus Reid was a famous cowboy in the Montana Territory. His business empire grew to include acquisition of valuable equestrian assets and intimate dealings with the Montana railroad. Beginning in 1883, he devoted several years of his life to government service, finally taking leave to resume his dealings with the railroad. In 1887, he was a key player in a vital investigation run by the renowned Pinkerton Detective Agency. In 1889, Remus passed away during an important civic function held in his honor when the platform upon which he was standing collapsed."
That's real POLITICAL SPIN ;D
Regards,
Matt T.
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That's brilliant, the best euphamism for hanging ever!
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You don't actually mention it but I guess you are aware that Kneller Hall is where army musicians are trained etc. Just a thought.
Oops, sorry I meant Kneller Hall. I wrote to them and paid a large fee for a search to be done of their records - zilch. I have my grandfather's army records and there is nothing about him going to Kneller Hall.
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All my life I've grown up with the 'knowledge' that I was descended from the poet Robert Burns, albeit "wrong side of the blanket". Apparently it was all recorded in the family bible, long since lost.
I've spent a lifetime casually dropping this into relevant conversation, reading his work, considering Scotland has a special place in my heart (although carefully avoiding haggis - yuk!), and singing Auld Lang Syne with gusto every New Year's Eve.
4 years of FH research, including contacting another Burns family descendant who had actually paid a professional genealogist to prove it one way or the other, and guess what.................. absolute load of utter rubbish/wishful thinking ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Mrs. T.
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4 years of FH research, including contacting another Burns family descendant who had actually paid a professional genealogist to prove it one way or the other, and guess what.................. absolute load of utter rubbish/wishful thinking ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Hilarious but how frustrating! Did you like the poetry? Maybe you should have tried the haggis too! (I rather like it!) ;D ;D ;D
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Not my story, but my friend's grandfather or ggrandfather (cannot remember which) really was found under a gooseberry bush!!!!!!!! :o :o
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Brilliant, snaphappytoo!
In a similar vein, where we were living when our daughter was conceived, there was a gooseberry bush under the bedroom window ;D
We've never mentioned it to her..... ;)
Mrs. T.
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;D ;D ;D ;D
Hi Mrs T!
No need to be so formal! :D
snaptoo - aka snap, SH, SH2!
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I too have been trying to find some basis to stories found in my OH's aunt's papers on her death. Several handwritten copies of family trees had a royal personage secretly marrying the seamstress who bore him a son. When the royal person had to marry Lady ..... the seamstress was passed to a French Refugee who brought up the son who in turn married and had my OH's g g grandmother. The only proof of this seemed to be her name = Alexandrina Charlotte Victoria (you've got to be descended from royalty with a name like that!!). I'm pretty sure it was a story made up by Alexandrina and her sister when they were both orphaned at the ages of 11 and 7.
Another story is that their father (who married Alexandrina) was lost on the Lady Franklin expedition. After much searching this too is wrong. He was lost at sea but on a ship having nothing to do with the North West Passage (as far as I know). I think this is another story made up by the two orphaned girls.
Yet another older piece of paper - well faded, and almost illegible, hints at a servant impersonating his master and taking all the money. Africa, shipwrecks and children running away to sea are also mentioned. One day I may try and follow this up too, but having spent so much time on royal ancestors and expeditions to the Arctic, I'm staying on the straight and narrow for a while.
Sara
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"Remus Reid was a famous cowboy in the Montana Territory. His business empire grew to include acquisition of valuable equestrian assets and intimate dealings with the Montana railroad. Beginning in 1883, he devoted several years of his life to government service, finally taking leave to resume his dealings with the railroad. In 1887, he was a key player in a vital investigation run by the renowned Pinkerton Detective Agency. In 1889, Remus passed away during an important civic function held in his honor when the platform upon which he was standing collapsed."
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/01/harry-reids-outlaw-ancestor/
;D
OH's family is supposed to have had a huge fortune way back when. I have heard the story from two separate branches of the family who don't know about the other.
No evidence for it, but some family members have apparently spent quite some time talking about it ;D
Cheers,
China
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I'm still looking for that promised family connection between the Mother-in-law and Bonny Prince Charlie....
::) ::) :-\ :-\
;D ;D
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My Mum, the only one in her mostly red-headed family to be born with jet black hair, was told she must have inherited her hair colour from her Spanish ggg-grandmother. (This is one of the reasons I started researching my family history.) Well, the Spanish grandmother turned out to be an Italian great-grandfather - a rogue who fathered her grandmother out of wedlock! I would never have found him if she hadn’t helpfully named him on her marriage certificate.
He was one of my more interesting ancestors. After arriving in England as a mariner, he became a boarding house keeper, then a pawnbroker, and finally a ship owner, who had amassed a fortune by the time of his death at age 91, outliving three wives - and at least one mistress.
It goes to show that these family stories are worth checking out!
Arkay
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My grandmother had all kinds of stories, most of which I've found have no foundation whatsoever!
one that my great great grandmother's sister was in service to Queen Victoria, that we were descended from the Norris' of Speke Hall, Liverpool, that someone else was involved in the planning of Queen Mary's (Princess of Mary of Teck's) wedding and "smuggled" a piece of material out of the dress as well as some material that the covers of the wedding chairs were made out of. I've got both these and admittedly they are very nice silk and velvet pieces but they could have come from anywhere (anyone know if Queen Mary's wedding chairs were burgundy velvet ?! ;) I've seen a colour picture of the wedding dress and its frightfully similar to the piece tho.
the only one I've found out was true was that my great great grandmother's brother was knighted.
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;D ;D ;D ;D
Hi Mrs T!
No need to be so formal! :D
snaptoo - aka snap, SH, SH2!
Like "snap" best, if that's OK for the future?
Great username, either way :)
(By the way, have ancestors from Weston-super-Mare, around 1900-1920, maybe we should compare notes?!)
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My Mum, the only one in her mostly red-headed family to be born with jet black hair, was told she must have inherited her hair colour from her Spanish ggg-grandmother. (This is one of the reasons I started researching my family history.) Well, the Spanish grandmother turned out to be an Italian great-grandfather - a rogue who fathered her grandmother out of wedlock! I would never have found him if she hadn’t helpfully named him on her marriage certificate.
He was one of my more interesting ancestors. After arriving in England as a mariner, he became a boarding house keeper, then a pawnbroker, and finally a ship owner, who had amassed a fortune by the time of his death at age 91, outliving three wives - and at least one mistress.
It goes to show that these family stories are worth checking out!
Arkay
There isn't a Wright or a Da Costa amongst that lot is there? The story is very similar to mine, but for the life of me I can't find anything out about g.grandfather.
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Another story was that one of my 2 x g.grandfather's drank all his wife's fortune and then died. The story goes that the eldest children all had private education (we're talking first half of 1800s here) but after his drinking away the money, the other children didn't get a good education which was why the first children spoke very well, and the others didn't.
Well he did die of Congestive apoplexy caused by excessive drinking, so that part's correct, but there is no suggestion some of his children were privately educated. I think what is more probable, is that the first 4 children who were born in London and Hampshire, spoke with a southern accent and although the others were born in Leicester, they were very young when their father died, so when the family moved to Manchester, the young ones picked up a northern accent. So to northern cousins the older children would have sounded "posh".
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No, sorry Lizzie - Mine were Benussi and Evans.
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My granny Maggie McKay was orphaned by the time she was 5 years old and family
legend has her mother and father being killed in a horse and trap accident and
Maggie being raised by a bishop in Ilse of Sky or Avoc in the Black Ilse, on checking
records it transpires that her father William died in 1887 with a medical condition
and her mother Ann died in 1888 also with a medical condition and Maggie being
raised by an old lady called Ann Smith in New Pitsligo Aberdeen.!
It makes me wonder where these stories originate from.
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Like "snap" best, if that's OK for the future?
Great username, either way :)
(By the way, have ancestors from Weston-super-Mare, around 1900-1920, maybe we should compare notes?!)
HI Mrs T! Sorry, I forgot all about this thread until yesterday :-[ :-[ then, when I had almost finished typing reply my internet went down >:( >:(
snap is fine by me, the only one that I do not like is snappy >:( but I will answer to anything else - within reason of course ;D My user name comes from my love of photography!
snaptoo
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Nonsense?
There's often a grain of truth somewhere, but it can take some finding.
My GGGGmother was an Abbott, and it was handed down in several branches of the family that the first member of that family in Ireland was a brother of George Abbot, archbishop of Canterbury, who was sent to Dublin as Master of the Rolls.
My father's cousin investigated and found that no Abbot(t) has ever held that office. She did find John Abbott, brewer and steward to the Inns of Court. A master at rolling the barrels, perhaps? I can imagine someone saying "your grandpapa had something to do with the law courts"; the story was then embellished with every retelling, John rising rapidly through the ranks until he reached the highest legal office in the land.
More recently I discovered there was a George Abbott brewery in Canterbury. So it seems likely John was just carrying on the family business. From "brewer, of Canterbury" to "Archbishop of Canterbury" is but a small step for a determined myth-maker.
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I had a weightlifter in my family. Told by nan. Have never found such a fact.
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My gran told several stories that turned out not to be true:
Story: Her father went out to China with the Sassoon family and was vet to the Imperial stables
Fact: Her father did go to China and was a vet. No connection found to the Sassoon family and certainly no connection to the Imperial stables which would have been in Peking not Shanghai where he was.
Story: He came in from work one day, and suddenly dropped down dead while ringing the bell for tea.
Fact: He came in drunk from work, had a row with his wife about his drinking & gambling habits, drank a bottle of poison - and then dropped down dead.
Story: On their return to England they lived in a big house where they often entertained the local Army Officers
Fact: On their return to England her mother helped out in the family pub next to the Army Barracks
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I was always told my great great grandfather either built or designed Kennington Oval and for his efforts he was invited for tea with the Duchy of Cornwall and had a walk around the gardens with the King....
He didn't ::) ... He built houses for the poor in Kensington, and as for the rest, probably not true either! Still, I like to believe it is ;D ;D
His son was apparently Lord Mayor of Lambeth, but after asking the council to look into it they found no record of him at all ::) ;D
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My Grandma and her sisters always maintained- and still do- that their mother was raised by her Grandmother whose name was Hannah Brierley, hailing from County Waterford and who trained as a midwife in London.
She was indeed raised by her Grandmother, but her name was actually Caroline Fox, from Wolverhampton! Caroline had a daughter called Hannah who also helped to raise my Great-Grandmother, and Caroline's mother's name was Alice Brierley so it's partly correct. No idea where the Irish ancestry or the midwifery come in!
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I'm still trying not to laugh about my grandmother's assertion that her father's family had given Marlborough House to the Government "during the War" ::)
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Have to say that after the past 24 hours I'm agog at what is showing up to be true. Good grief. I'm realted to this lot???? ;D ;D ;D
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My maternal grandfather was supposedly called Patrick Aloysius Flynn. He was raised by Jesuits in an orphanage in Ireland. At the age of 10 he ran away, made his way to England, changed his name to Alfred, and became an atheist (because of some bad experiences with the Jesuits) and a communist. On his death bed he asked for a priest.
The truth: He was called Patrick Flynn, no middle name. He was in an orphanage--in Preston! He did run away, but at the age of 12. He was a sort of communist; his children called him Red Alf--behind his back. He did not ask for a priest on his death bed.
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::) ::) ::) Put another family story to bed with a shake of the head yesterday - TX to Jacquie in Canada's help on the Canadian board.
Forever and a day I've been told that we have United Empire Loyalists in the family tree. Apparently not. The family in that branch came from Yorkshire, not east of Glasgow & got to Ontario, Canada in the mid-1800s not Connecticut, USA in 1743.
I'll be changing my profile shortly. ;D ;D ;D
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Umm my Dad said we came from Scotland, my eldest bro spent a good part of a European holiday and a lot of cash for accom searching the archives in Glasgow for William Todd, Thats like trying to find Bryan Jones in Wales... We didn't come from Scotland it was England, Durham in fact, close but no cigar.
We have a branch of the family that became close to the Royal family, too close apparently, and adopted secretly the offspring of this Royal along with a huge stash of cash for keeping the mouth shut. Probably lived in London and got one of the chamber maids in the family way more likely. By the way what happened to the cash.....
Coomb's your "weightlifter in the family" was probably a bricklayer???????
The sash and paraphenalia I discovered in my dads cupboard with all the Gold tassles and crimson was not " A royal order" it was from the local pennywhistle band.
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According to my Grandmother, my GGGrandmother always claimed they were related to Captain Cook and that two statues she had in her parlour had been brought back by "Cousin Cook" on one of his travels.
Truth - well her father's family came from a long line of ag labs in Buckinghamshire and her Aunt had married a man called Cook who surprise surprise was an ag lab and came from that county. Her brother had been in the merchant navy and more than likely the "statues" were brought back by him on his travels.
I have yet, to my Uncle's disappointment, never found any connection to Captain Cook or his wife's family. ;D
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According to the step-rellies 4 x Gr Grandfather supposedly died at sea on a journey from NZ to Scotland in 1848 leaving behind a wife and 3 young children. That's why we can't find a death certificate for him.
He was travelling back to the family Estate in Lanarkshire to claim his share of the inheritance after his father had died. His plan was to invest the money in a lucrative NZ shipping enterprise that would have made the family very wealthy.
The man in question was actually born in Surrey. His father, a grocer, died in London in 1850, his mother died in London in 1854.
We still don't have a death cert for him. He was a shipwright so perhaps he did die at sea somewhere off Auckland. Our last "sighting" of him was his involvement in a NZ Court case in about 1847 but that's it........... his "widow" then took up with a local landowner and had another 8 children with him. There is no marriage cert for them either.....
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I've been told I am related to Howard Hughes, Sir Anthony Eden, Jane Russell, and David Moyes.
So far I've found two thieves and a brothel keeper, with no sign of any such proof I'm related to any of the names above.
Sometimes I do wonder that most people fall under the myth of name association. i.e Howard Hughes must be a relation because we have the same surname. I think this is what has happened in my family.
Matt ;)
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Hi
My mother always told us one of her uncles went to Australia and opened an orphanage, after many years searching I found them, they were lodging with a family called orphan
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:) My grandmother was very adamant and proud that she was a 1st cousin of David McCallum (Glasgow Born Actor - as a young man, Illya Kuryakin in "The Man from Uncle"). Years ago I looked at his bio, and did not see a connection. I even wrote to him via his Secretary, just in case, got a really nice letter back, but no relation.
A couple of years later I obtained a marriage certficate for my GGFather, on it one of the witnesses was his sister - Catherine Watson, the other witness, her husband - David McCallum!! Further research showed that Catherine Watson and David McCallum had a son, another David McCallum, born Glasgow around the same time as "the" David McCallum" A bit like Reayboy's post!!
But talking about usually a grain of truth somewhere in the old stories handed down, another cousin of mine told me that a great-grandfather had been a Ships Captain, and our Grandfather had travelled the world with him as a child. . A couple of years later I found that my GGF, the said ships captain, had been an Accountant, a Manager, and a Passenger Agent for CPR. Worked in London, then Boston (where my Grandfather was born) then Montreal.
On his marriage certificate, my grandfather is listed as a ships steward!! So, at the very least, they were actually involved with shipping - so there's that grain of truth!! ;D
Jeanne
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My mother was always told that her cousin was stillborn, but my auntie remembers him being run over and killed by a bus when he was age 9! No idea why people made it up about him being stillborn.
My grandmother was adamant that her mother was born in Hull, Yorkshire, and I do believe that's what she actually thought, not that she had made it up. She was actually born in Walsall, Staffs, where the family have always been. The weird thing is that on the 1901 census she did actually say she was born in Hull, whereas othere censuses have said Walsall.
It all keeps us on our toes!
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There are 2 local myths which have been circulating in my area for years.
1) Actress/dancer Ginger Rogers was a McMath from Blackhill.
Fact- real name was Virginia McMath but no connection to McMaths of Blackhill (I traced both her family and theirs and found nothing even remotely close)
2) U.S. Senator George Mitchell's family came from the Rhee.
Fact- there were Micthell in the Rhee but George Mitchell's father was originally named Joseph Kilroy and adopted by a Lebanese family!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_J._Mitchell
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the myth ... that my sisters were the first girls born on my fathers side of the family in 300 years!!
the facts ... g granma Annie had 2 girls, gg granma Jessie had 4 girls ... :)
the myth ... grandfather lost his (right) arm in WW1
the facts ... grandfather was seriously wounded in WW1 (left shoulder) ... no record of a pension claim for war injuries ... :)
the myth ... Uncle was a pilot who died in his plane during WW2
the facts ... Uncle was a telegraphist/gunner ... :)
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My grandmother always maintained her grandfather was a scottish sailor who came from a rich family and in disgrace went to New Zealand, met a maori princess, and married her on the boat on their way to Australia. The truth is he was born in Guernsey, went to New Zealand at 18 with his parents and siblings, married his English-born wife in Christchurch NZ, and came to Australia in 1898 with his family.
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;D ;D According to my strictly Scottish grandparents, both their families from way way back were as white as the driven snow!! Pillars of the church! No divorces, no alcohol, no scandalous doings whatever - perfect Protestant Christians!
My generation (and me in particular) was the first in history to pluck eyebrows, wear eyeshadow, drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes ("if the Lord had meant you to smoke you would have had a reeky lum on your heid"); first to have Catholic friends, to wear miniskirts, go dancing, go to a Youth Club (and on a Sunday!) stayed out past 9pm, and played sport on a Sunday! A sinner no less! And I believed them too! Yet Robbie Burns was their hero!!
Talk about piling coals on the head! And filling up young heads with guilt!! (All though, tempered by the fact that they were wonderful grandparents and I loved them very much).
Then while doing my FH, I found that my great grandfather, the revered head of our Scottish family in NZ, married twice. His first wife, my ggmother, died and six months after that, he made an "Irregular Marriage" in Scotland. He also "took to the drink"! My other great grandmother had a child before she married a different man, and 4 of their daughters also appear in OPR's - yep -up on the cutty stool!! Luv it!!
Jeanne
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Sometimes I do wonder that most people fall under the myth of name association. i.e Howard Hughes must be a relation because we have the same surname. I think this is what has happened in my family.
Matt ;)
Similar in my family. When a child I was told that Al Capones henchman 'Machine Gun' Jack McGurn was a cousin. NO he nicked our name out of a Chicage phonebook so he could have an Irish name.
Also a Lord Chief Justice Mr Justice Stable was grans cousin. Not so because gran's family spelt their name StableS and came from Manchester area and the judge's family hailed from the South East of England.
However there is a chance albeit very slim that there is a Mathew Stables who had something to do with Parliament in the 1700's and is pictured on a painting. Haven't been able to get that far back as yet.
Jean
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You laugh at stories of babies found under the gooseberry bushes, but this one is true.
A dozen years ago I was living in a flat in a village in southern Germany. It was warm summer weather; every evening at sunset a stork flew in and perched on the lamppost in front of the house. Not sure what attracted it, but it was still there when I went to bed. Gone by the morning, but back the next evening.
That went on for a week. On the seventh day the caretaker's wife gave birth to a daughter and the stork was seen no more. Evidently satisfied with its work, it had moved on to a new haunt.
I'd always wondered where babies come from.
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;D ;D According to my strictly Scottish grandparents, both their families from way way back were as white as the driven snow!! Pillars of the church! No divorces, no alcohol, no scandalous doings whatever - perfect Protestant Christians!
My generation (and me in particular) was the first in history to pluck eyebrows, wear eyeshadow, drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes ("if the Lord had meant you to smoke you would have had a reeky lum on your heid"); first to have Catholic friends, to wear miniskirts, go dancing, go to a Youth Club (and on a Sunday!) stayed out past 9pm, and played sport on a Sunday! A sinner no less! And I believed them too! Yet Robbie Burns was their hero!!
Talk about piling coals on the head! And filling up young heads with guilt!! (All though, tempered by the fact that they were wonderful grandparents and I loved them very much).
Then while doing my FH, I found that my maternal great grandfather, the revered head of our Scottish family in NZ, married twice. His first wife, my ggmother, died and six months after that, he made an "Irregular Marriage" in Scotland. He also "took to the drink"! My other maternal great grandmother had a child before she married my great grandfather, and 4 of their daughters also appear in OPR's - yep -up on the cutty stool!! All farm servants! Luv it!!
Jeanne
Just adding a newly found first child for my great grandparents, mentioned above. This wee girl was born just 6 months after they married. Sadly though, she only lived for about 7 weeks, " debility from birth". She was named Elizabeth, and when my grandmother was born a few years later, one of 7 more chn, she was named after this first little one.
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When I started looking into my family’s history I vaguely remembered a comment my grandmother Ethel had made to me when I was a small boy, about there being an Italian in her family, the Tasker’s.
As Ethel had died half a dozen or so years earlier, I asked my mother about this, as Ethel was her mother, but she had no recollection of there being any Italian in the family.
As I slowly got back through the generations I found that Ethel’s grandfather had a sister, Charlotte Tasker, who was a talented pianist and her stage name was Madame Carlotta Tasca. Here was the “Italian” in the family.
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On the reverse side of the coin, isn't it amazing when an old family story becomes an understandable truth, proving that there is usually an element of truth buried somewhere in the stories. These stories are wee bit like Chinese Whispers 😄😄
A cousin once told me years ago, when I first started with the family research, that our Grandpa had told him that our paternal great grandfather had been a Ship's Captain who had gone down on a sinking ship. I had never heard this story before, in fact, I knew that our great grandfather had been a passenger agent with The Grand Trunk Railway in Boston, then Montreal, where he died in 1886 in Montreal General Hospital, cause of death was Rheumatism!
My cousin wasn't having a bar of that, but a year or so ago, a Rootschatter found an entry in an Australian Gazette, which referred to my Great Grandfather having died at sea, later another Rootchatter very kindly found a death record for my 2 X great grandfather - he found him on a Deaths At Sea Record, when he had died of Inflammation of the Brain caused by sunstroke! He died on a ship just 10 days out of England en route to Melbourne, where his sister was living at the time!
So never discount those little stories, there's substance in them somewhere! :) :). My cousin was simply a generation out, and he wasn't a ship's captain, but a passenger! But he did die at sea!
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I agree, jaybelnz.
My father would very often say "when we were back at the Castle" to which my mother responded "you mean, when you were on your barge". My right my mother was - my paternal great grandmother was the daughter of a Waterman on the Yorkshire canals. ;D
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Nothing on quite this lavish scale in my family (that I know of) but a piece of folklore from my mother said that her grandfather, manager of a quarry at Penmon in Anglesey, had died in some way connected with the Penmon lifeboat. His death certificate (aged 36, late in 1877) said typhoid. I later came across a news item reporting that he and a friend had been rescued when the rising tide threatened to drown the small island where they had been fishing during that summer.
The consequence was that his widow returned to her family in Liverpool, having waited two months for her ninth child to arrive. Luckily her parents' house managed to accommodate them.
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My nan said her mum's father was Irish. The mother Ellen, was from Oxford, and I thought OK maybe she was born there to an Irish dad. But I found Ellen's father was born in Oxford and none of his ancestors so far can be traced to Ireland. Unless there is some distant Irish ancestors and the grain of truth may be there in an old family tale. Ellen's paternal grandfather was illegitimate and her paternal gran's father died in 1849 but was not born in Oxon, as stated in 1841. I was pleased really to find no Irish ancestors (at least after 1800) due to knowing how hard it can be tracing Irish rellies esp if you have a close Irish rellie such as great grandparent.
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Yes Coombs, I have an Irish great great grandmother, no approx 1818 birth found for her, no maiden name on the marriage cert, nor is her mother named. Her husband's the same, born approx 1818, no birth info, on the 1845 Irish marriage cert. Only their fathers are named. Later Census info in England for both of bride and groom gives their birthplaces as Portarlington Ireland and Newry Ireland.
I since found out that the groom's mother was Sarah Annie, but still no maiden name!
I also found out from his military notes, that he was actually born in Moate, County Westmeath, again, but again only his father's name. This bridegroom is the same man in my earlier post, that died at sea in 1873, en route to Melbourne. By now widowed, but I still haven't been able to locate a death record for his wife. Ireland Grrrr!
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Also that dad said there was a weightlifter in the family. Never come across a weightlifter but a cricketer.
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Family legend has it that there is minor royalty on my maternal grandfather's side, the story goes my ancestor was the proverbial "black sheep" and was dispatched to the Colonies for his transgressions. Can't find any trace (yet) but with my lot it's more likely to have been the "wrong side of the blanket". Have found quite a bit of that on both sides ;D ;D
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Well, I had to disappoint my Canadian relatives who are convinced that there is a close family connection to Rudyard Kipling.
My geat great grandfather was George Kipling Burrows, son of John and Sarah Burrows. The Canadian relatives also trace back to John and Sarah Burrows. John Burrows and his son George Kipling Burrows were both East End boot makers. The Kipling connection comes via Sarah Burrows ... her maiden name was Kipling.
However ... after much research and a DNA test on somebody still living in 2014, the conclusions we drew about Sarah Kipling (born 1839) was that she was a Kipling by adoption, not by birth. (She was not baptised until the 1850s, when she names George Kipling as her father; but her widowed mother had not married George Kipling until 1844 ... however, young Sarah Kiplin gIS shown at the same address as George Kipling in the 1841 census (with no sign of her mother) so it was not actually 100% cut and dried until the DNA result came in.
Even if the DNA result had shown a Kipling match, however, George Kipling was from the Nottinghamshire branch of the family, which has no known link to Joseph Rudyard Kipling.
Oh well! (And I have to say, the story which came down to my Canadian relatives that "the rest of the family looked down on him because he didn't have a proper job - he just wrote books" does have a feel of truth about it!)
The family tradition (which I am hearing from more than one source ... although I do not know if they are independent or not) that we are of Huguenot descent remains to be investigated.
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My great-grandmother grew up thinking her father, who died shortly before she was born, was a frenchman. But he was born in Norfolk and no link to France in his ancestry has been found, although the surname is of French origin.
Makes me wonder how she came to think this because her mother was around and could've easily told her all about him? I have a theory that her stepfather forbade all discussion and references to him.
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JA Knighton that's strange my Great Grandmother told us her father was French, he too was Norfolk born and bred! However as he died when she was 12 or 13 I think she was trying to pull the wool over our eyes :-\
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So far none of my family legends have turned out to be complete nonsense. All have had an element of truth in them albeit becoming a little muddled over the years. including "we'd be rich if we hadn't originated from the wrong side of the bed sheets" (grt grt grandfather's half siblings did very well for themselves. "we had family at Edward's coronation" (was actually George VI's).
There are a few I haven't proven but neither have I disproven them. The obituary of one claimed he was the second cousin of Thomas Carlyle, another claimed to have been with Robert Burns when overturned the mouse nest and is quoted in a book from early 1800s and a rumour that somewhere in my Mum's tree there were sheep rustlers. No idea where to start on the third one as the story doesn't tell me which branch of that tree.
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1) One branch of the family is French. The version of the surname as it is used currently by family members can be French, but they changed the spelling only 3 or 4 generations ago.... It's most definitely English.
2) A gtgt-grandfather was a surveyor and also Mayor. He used his connections to make sure the Main Trunk Line went through his property and was generously reimbursed for this land. His granddaughter remembered going in his car when he was Mayor.
Actual facts - he was never a surveyor (usually worked as a labourer and other enterprises) and possibly never owned property. He went bankrupt twice. He was a councillor in a small town for one term. The local paper made fun of him and his wife while he was a councillor and how they spoke and borrowed clothes to wear to functions - he perhaps wasn't as educated as other councillors and not as well spoken.
His granddaughter was under a year old when he died, so could not possibly have remembered riding in his car (if he ever had one, which I doubt).
3) A distant aunt married a man who inherited a title. SURE she did (with eye roll)
This is the story which I was the most sceptical about. The aunt's daughter actually did. After she married her father-in-law's second cousin died in England. There were no other male heirs descended from this man's grandfather, so the title passed to descendants of the grandfather's younger brother. Her father-in-law inherited to title and then it passed to her husband.
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Hello troops,
i am enjoying the thread and giving my versions of "family Legend" and other interesting bits.
While rounding up the "facts" for our family history book you are given stories by well meaning folk and hushed reference " we don't [want to ]know about that?
My Gr Aunty Mary Ann Gilbert married a chap by the name of Jack Aiton where was said to be one of the richest men in Victoria about the turn of the century. He was known to shout the bar in several hotels in Alexandra. Aiton was Scotsman who had a great singing voice and was quite willing to entertain on any given occassion.
When we got the book to final draft form i was able to pass it onto a chap by the name of Bryan Lloyd - a well known author/publisher of the area around Alexandra for inspection. He said it was good job but that there were a couple of inaccuracies
Lloyd's father and uncle just happened to have worked in company with Aiton and that he was not all that wealthy. Aiton was a steam man and looked after the boilers/engines that operated the pumps and crushers in their gold mining enterprises.
Bryan Lloyd launched our book in 2002 with a couple of minor alterations.
cheers
Jack Gee
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Sadly we don't have many family legends.
Legend claimed that my gg grandfather was German and changed his name from Lindenberg (?) to Lintern. From the letters of his that I have which are all in good English and the place of birth given in his marriage lines as "London" I always thought that that was rubbish. Come the internet however I obtained all the available censuses and in two the place of birth is given as Hanover. That line is a total dead end and, with the advent of Ancestry and Find My Past is gone from being the longest line on my tree to the shortest.
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Sadly we don't have many family legends.
Legend claimed that my gg grandfather was German and changed his name from Lindenberg (?) to Lintern. From the letters of his that I have which are all in good English and the place of birth given in his marriage lines as "London" I always thought that that was rubbish. Come the internet however I obtained all the available censuses and in two the place of birth is given as Hanover. That line is a total dead end and, with the advent of Ancestry and Find My Past is gone from being the longest line on my tree to the shortest.
One of the guys in my tree was supposed to have been born in Germany and I got confused when I found his birth in London. Turned out his father was born in German so not completely random legend.
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As a child, my mum was told all sorts of stories about her family.
I turns out that her granddad was NOT the claimed 7th son of a 7th son, though his wart charming still worked. Her other granddad was not born at Lancaster Castle, but in a slum at the other side of town.
The big story, which first prompted us to look into our history, claimed that she was a descendant of St. George the Martyr, and that each generation had a George in his honour. Well, the parish is right for a link, but there's no paper trail to be found. I have found two children named George, but one of those has a middle name of Handel, which fits better with his brother Joseph Haydn than the family story.
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My mother firmly believed that her great uncle had been the mayor of Cleveland, Ohio, and had owned a large cement works. I have since discovered that he in fact owned a small petrol station :-X
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One of my grandmothers claimed she was descended from Romanies. I cannot find any evidence of this. She was from generations of shoemakers, ag labs and weavers.
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Not nearly so interesting as lots of the previous stories, but my mother assured me that her fathers family were wealthy Irish coal merchants. Sorry, mum, your dads family lived briefly in Wales, and all came from Bristol, England. I do have some Welsh ancestry, but it's through my father, not my mum.
Even after being shown my research, with birth records and census records to back it up, she still maintains that "we must be Irish somewhere along the line." My husband, who is of Irish descent, said, in a somewhat earthy way, "the only Irish your lot have is the bit I put into you!"
Sorry! I'll get me coat now!
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My Uncle claimed the we were related to Amy Johnson the famous Aviatrix....when I challenged him for more info when I started to research the family and failed to find a connection, he told me that they lived next door to the Johnson family and he and his sister went to school with Any . .They used to call her parents Aunt and Uncle.
Carol
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Calling neighbours aunt or uncle was common when I was a boy.
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I have two longstanding family myths, both of which I think were invented by someone in my grandfather's family who just liked to tell tall tales with a maritime flavour:
...first that my Harland ancestors owned a shipyard and were related to Sir Edward Harland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Harland) of Harland & Wolff / Titanic fame... nope, they were ironworkers in industrial County Durham and before that ag. labs of course;
...secondly that we were related to Grace Darling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Darling), rescuer of the Forfarshire in 1838. Not a clue where that one might have come from. Technically I haven't entirely ruled it out but equally I've not found a shred of a connection.
Tbh I am a bit disappointed that none of my ancestors ever went to sea. Maybe I'll make up a couple more seafaring legends for posterity.
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Calling neighbours aunt or uncle was common when I was a boy.
I called my parents' friends aunt and uncle as a child.
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This thread is brilliant - only wish I had some interesting tales to tell! The only ones I can think of are that my nan claims to be related to Bert Weedon - no idea how as I can't find a link, and my gg grandad was supposed to have owned a brewery in Stoke on Trent. As far as I can tell, he worked in a brewery but never owned it! :D
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My wife's 2nd g grandfather, John ANTHONY, was said to have been a guard for Queen Victoria, and to have received a baby's bonnet from her. Some members of her family had seen this heirloom.
When we investigated John's life, we found he had indeed been a soldier, and fought in the Crimea. In the 1870s he emigrated to New Zealand, and he died in Melbourne, Australia in 1889.
His death certificate recorded his occupation as "Prison Warder".....so he had been a guard in Victoria...
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I think there's something fishy about this family tale,
My 5x Gt Grandfather was supposedly eaten by a shark, he was 'supposedly' a sea faring man but I just can't find any evidence to prove this tale or disprove it ~ no death record either on land or at sea.
I know he existed, I have his marriage entry in the register, baptisms of his children and his wife a widow 13 years later.
All males in this family line had 'sea' related occupations in Plymouth, so a naval occupation would fit.
I do wonder how these tales come about ?
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Something like Chinese Whispers I would think. Little bits getting changed when people pass on things they've heard about family!
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I was told as a child that my gg grandfather was Lord Mayor of Brisbane (Australia).
When I finally researched, it turns out he was elected to the Brisbane council in July 1877 (although there is some doubt whether he actually sat on the Council as there was a dispute about his eligibility), then died in Jan 1878. So just a verrrry small grain of truth.
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Oh, and my OH's mother's family escaped Russia in 1917. Apparently before they left they buried pots of gold in the ground on their farming estate for safe keeping. Well, whether the pots of gold or the estate actually existed - I don't think I'll ever know, but makes a good story!
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Before you go searching, do you know just where in Russia the estate was. Russia is just a little on the large size. ::) ::)
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Well, my mother-in-law (who wasn't yet born) says they could see Mt Ararat, so must have been somewhere in the south. But I don't think I'll pack my shovel and start looking any time soon. ;) ;)
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Now that's where time travel would very much come in handy Maddy! ;D
You might even catch them at it if you time it right - burying the gold!
Jeanne
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Well, my mother-in-law (who wasn't yet born) says they could see Mt Ararat, so must have been somewhere in the south. But I don't think I'll pack my shovel and start looking any time soon. ;) ;)
Did your mother in law's family travel to Australia? If so, did they marry or die there? Their marriage and death certificates should name their parents and their occupations, so if they were farmers that adds a bit of truth to the story.
I don't think it is too far fetched - they may have expected to return to the farm to retrieve the loot. Gold was often hidden. It may also be that the 'gold' stash may have grown as the story passed down the generations. ;)
Frustrating that you will never know.
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;D ;D So long as they didn't shoot me before I got back in my time machine. ;D
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Well, my mother-in-law (who wasn't yet born) says they could see Mt Ararat, so must have been somewhere in the south. But I don't think I'll pack my shovel and start looking any time soon. ;) ;)
Did your mother in law's family travel to Australia? If so, did they marry or die there? Their marriage and death certificates should name their parents and their occupations, so if they were farmers that adds a bit of truth to the story.
I don't think it is too far fetched - they may have expected to return to the farm to retrieve the loot. Gold was often hidden. It may also be that the 'gold' stash may have grown as the story passed down the generations. ;)
Frustrating that you will never know.
Hi Ruskie, they went first to Lebanon, then Syria, then Iraq (sort of followed revolutions around), then my in-laws came to Australia, so unfortunately nothing on any paper trail. Just memories. ;) ;D
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Not something that made it to family legend but an example of how these things can start. My grandmother always told people that my cousin was a professor at Oxford University. At the time he was in fact a lecturer at what was then Oxford Poly.
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;D ;D ;D
Bless her! University sounds a bit "posher and brainier" than a good old polytech!
I have a cousin who insists our great grandfather was Manager of a coal mine in Ayrshire, he was never Manager, but he was a coal miner! 😄
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Sometimes, however, these family stories do turn out to be true
My great-grandfather drew up a family tree in which he said one ancestor, William, was "Secretary to Earl Fitzwilliam's Estates in Ireland" That particular parson lived & farmed all his life in Yorkshire. But two generations earlier an ancestor of the same name HAD been Earl Fitzwilliam's Agent on his Irish Estates.
But I still haven't tracked down the "James Wainwright, last of the wain wrights (waggon builders) and father of 15 children" that he also mentions! I can't even find anyone that had 15 children either within the family or from an unconnected Wainwright family
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One ancient line in my ancestors claimed descent from Banquo, much like the House of Stewart. Total nonsense, I found out.
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Well, my mother-in-law (who wasn't yet born) says they could see Mt Ararat, so must have been somewhere in the south. But I don't think I'll pack my shovel and start looking any time soon. ;) ;)
Did your mother in law's family travel to Australia? If so, did they marry or die there? Their marriage and death certificates should name their parents and their occupations, so if they were farmers that adds a bit of truth to the story.
I don't think it is too far fetched - they may have expected to return to the farm to retrieve the loot. Gold was often hidden. It may also be that the 'gold' stash may have grown as the story passed down the generations. ;)
Frustrating that you will never know.
Hi Ruskie, they went first to Lebanon, then Syria, then Iraq (sort of followed revolutions around), then my in-laws came to Australia, so unfortunately nothing on any paper trail. Just memories. ;) ;D
ah, that's a shame Maddys52. :(
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My grandmother (bless her soul) was adamant that we were descended from a wealthy (but very discreet) triple-barrelled family, the Marshall-Rawson-Uptons. We were worth something, you know.
Hmm. Funny how long folk memories last. In fact my 4gt grandfather Marshall did marry a Rawson, and their daughter married an Upton. (There is no evidence whatsoever of the names ever being hyphenated together!) That was all in the first half of the 1800s and the subsequent story in that line mostly involves the asylum, the work house, the prison, syphilis, the divorce courts -- nothing too posh there!
The Rawsons were indeed well off and quite big fish in their small pond, but my grandmother's story also failed to mention that the money seems to have run out around 1830 when Mr Marshall went bankrupt whilst on trial for attempted murder ::). I somehow doubt my gran would have spoken of her "wealthy" roots with quite such longing if she'd known what I know now.
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Well, my mother-in-law (who wasn't yet born) says they could see Mt Ararat, so must have been somewhere in the south. But I don't think I'll pack my shovel and start looking any time soon.
Only on a very clear day I should think, as Mt.Ararat is in eastern Turkey. Perhaps they could even make out the remains of Noah's Ark?
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Well, my mother-in-law (who wasn't yet born) says they could see Mt Ararat, so must have been somewhere in the south. But I don't think I'll pack my shovel and start looking any time soon.
Only on a very clear day I should think, as Mt.Ararat is in eastern Turkey. Perhaps they could even make out the remains of Noah's Ark?
Mt Arrarat can be seen from Armenia which was under Russian rule from 1828 til 1917.
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Oh, and my OH's mother's family escaped Russia in 1917. Apparently before they left they buried pots of gold in the ground on their farming estate for safe keeping. Well, whether the pots of gold or the estate actually existed - I don't think I'll ever know, but makes a good story!
I have a similar story.......
Published here about my gg g/father....
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01eog/
Metal detector at the ready for my next holiday in that vacinity ;D
Annie
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People are still burying "treasure" - drug money etc. ;D
One example:
https://linkbeef.com/colombian-farmer-finds-600000000-drug-money-buried-in-his-farm/
;D
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When we were little our Grandma said her uncle John went off to fight in WW1 and "never came home". :'(
We thought this was very sad, and as little girls would sigh over it - that her mum lost her brother in this way.
But this isn't what happened.
Our Grandma and their parents came from Somerset to Australia just before WW1, to join her Uncle John. No sooner had they settled in but war broke out and John enlisted. He was there in France and was gassed, and went to England to convalesce. In 1919 the Aus Army had a berth for him on a troop ship for home - to Aus - but he actually did go home, back to mother, haha, back to his parents in Somerset. 8)
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There were a lot of things my mother told me that didn't quite add up with the records.
She said her mother dropped out of school in 8th grade, but a census record said she went to 10th grade. She said her mother's family lived in a home owned by the coal mining company, but one census says he owned it. She said repeatedly that her grandfather died of black lung disease, but his death certificate says tuberculosis. She said my grandfather on the other side remembered sailing into Ellis Island as a child. However, his ship sailed into Boston.
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Not my relatives (thank goodness!) but I know of one family that insists ancestor built the church they attended. Can't be true since 1) family lived in another county at the time and 2) he was 3 years old at the time.
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There were a lot of things my mother told me that didn't quite add up with the records.
She said her mother dropped out of school in 8th grade, but a census record said she went to 10th grade. She said her mother's family lived in a home owned by the coal mining company, but one census says he owned it. She said repeatedly that her grandfather died of black lung disease, but his death certificate says tuberculosis. She said my grandfather on the other side remembered sailing into Ellis Island as a child. However, his ship sailed into Boston.
Shelley, in terms of your Mother's grandfather dying of black lung disease, and the death cert saying Tuberculosis, he could have had both TB and Black Lung Disease. Tuberculosis is more common in victims of Black Lung.
Here's an interesting article. - https://www.britannica.com/science/black-lung
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That's interesting. I have heard that tuberculosis was considered low class or embarrassing back then (1940's era), so it's possible that the wrong information was deliberately given.
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People are still burying "treasure"
Drifting off topic, when I worked as a bank clerk in the 70s a change of bank note would always bring in a stream of people "upgrading" hoards kept in cash. One did come in with a tin box that, from the smell, had clearly been burried in the garden.
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My McGregor family has a tradition of descent from the legendary Rob Roy’s family, but there is also a strongly held yet fallacious family prejudice that goes with the claim. All “true” MacGregors are supposedly spelt that way and, the story goes, those families spelt McGregor (or any other variants) are not related to our family and are definitely not related to Rob Roy.
In fact, my father’s generation was the very first of our family to be christened MacGregor; Dad’s father and his siblings had their names “corrected” when they started school - late 19th century. In a curious twist, as a boy I had always thought that my own name was spelt Macgregor, but when I had to provide a birth certificate in connection with starting work I found that the registrar had inadvertently spelt it McGregor - the “correction” was thus “corrected”. So, rather than MacGregor being the only “right” way to spell our name, Dad was the only one ever in our direct line to have it spelt that way.
Oh, and Rob Roy himself was christened McGregor!
Cheers, Peter
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This is such a funny thread ! My favourite family legend is about a great aunt who was married to an Indian Rajah. She had two children with him but when he started amassing wives she left him. He refused to allow their children to leave India so said great aunt returned to England alone. She remarried an Englishman and returned to India where they bought a tea plantation. I never believed this story as the person telling it was full of fantastic tales but her husband was
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truthful and knew this great aunt. When I asked about her he was crying with laughter and said " Rajah?" he was a private in the Indian army ! He left her with the children , never to be seen again.
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My grandmother said that she heard something about a relative marrying an American Indian, or at least was associated with them.
I was keen to find out if there was any truth to this, so it was one of my main goals when researching her ancestry.
It's important to keep in mind that my grandmother is the youngest child of the youngest child. By that I mean her parents were approaching forty when she was born, and her father was also born when his parents were approaching forty. So the generation gaps are much larger than normal. Which meant that even close relatives were distant memories to her.
I did discover that three of her aunts, who were all Glaswegians, married Italian immigrants. But she knew this already, and my grandmother actually has an Italian first name referencing that part of her family. But no American Indian connection was found.
Then I found out she had a cousin who became involved with the film industry, and married an actor who appeared in a couple of silent films. There were photographs, and in one film he portrayed an American Indian!
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Some times they turn out to be true as well - one of the tales in my family was of my grandma's brother who died young after falling into a vat of boiling liquid.
I've always taken it with a large pinch of salt, so I was surprised to find it actually true only a few weeks ago. Finding the report in a newspaper article, he did indeed come to his end this way :-[
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Fifty years ago I was often told by my mother that her father in law, James Sedcole Watson had been on the Jarrow March. Current research has shown me no evidence of this, although I suppose it is possible he wasn't one of the 200-odd original marchers, but joined in the following day, near Hartlepool where he lived.
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My gran always maintained her Campbells had a direct link to the Duke of Argylle,I cannot disprove this ;D as I cannot get further back from the families Irish heritage in Fallahogy in Londonderry ;D ;D
As an aside one of the brothers of my ggg grandfather Campbell did stay in a beautiful mansion house and if anyone would like a smile they could check out Germiston House,its on The Glasgow Story web site.
My rellies had a distinct connection with the garden study.
:)
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... My gran always maintained her Campbells had a direct link to the Duke of Argylle ...
That made me grin, it must be a Campbell thing, my mother's claim to be a 'direct descendant of the Duke of Argyll' is virtually a catchphrase in our family and even received a mention in her eulogy some years back!
Having been asked over the years to help out with the family trees of many friends, work colleagues etc., it no longer surprises me to encounter yet another family legend on the same basic theme. For example, there is the one that involves being descended from nobility (usually through an illegitimate birth or a marriage that wasn't 'recognised'). However, my favourite is the one where the family was 'done out of ' some vast wealth, usually involving some shady goings-on with a will and more often than not in a foreign country.
I imagine that there can be an element of corruption ('send three and four-pence, we're going to a dance') in family lore and some measure of embellishment. I sometimes wonder how often a simple opinion about someone in the past, such as 'so and so has done well for himself', just meaning that he has kept a job down and successfully raised a family, has ended up being passed down over time with a much grander storyline.
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... My gran always maintained her Campbells had a direct link to the Duke of Argylle ...
That made me grin, it must be a Campbell thing, my mother's claim to be a 'direct descendant of the Duke of Argyll' is virtually a catchphrase in our family and even received a mention in her eulogy some years back!
Having been asked over the years to help out with the family trees of many friends, work colleagues etc., it no longer surprises me to encounter yet another family legend on the same basic theme. For example, there is the one that involves being descended from nobility (usually through an illegitimate birth or a marriage that wasn't 'recognised'). However, my favourite is the one where the family was 'done out of ' some vast wealth, usually involving some shady goings-on with a will and more often than not in a foreign country.
I imagine that there can be an element of corruption ('send three and four-pence, we're going to a dance') in family lore and some measure of embellishment. I sometimes wonder how often a simple opinion about someone in the past, such as 'so and so has done well for himself', just meaning that he has kept a job down and successfully raised a family, has ended up being passed down over time with a much grander storyline.
Growing up I was told "We could have been rich if we weren't from the wrong side of the bed sheets" and "They even had titles". We just all laughed. Now it wouldn't have ensured that we would have been rich now but I have since proved that one of my Grt Grt grandfathers was illigitimate, he had an impoverished life dying aged 25 of TB. His half siblings on his Dad's side had a very nice early life indeed. His oldest half brother ended up with a title and one of his half sisters married a man who later had a title. So it completely makes sense where the story came from.
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Family legend? One false and one true.
Several branches of my Harrison family tree were told we were related to the two U.S. presidents named Harrison. As a teenager I donated money to the family house and was told I was not a relative and thank you for the donation.
Three of nine branches say we go back in Ireland to Oliver Cromwell who was there 1649-1650. I did not believe it until this year we are doing DNA tests. If we match any of the four test takers we will have traced back to a tax-paying farmer in 1662. It is not long in time from 1662 Ireland to 1650. Could be true.
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My favourite was that my nan's mom's family, the Perry's (mother's maiden name MAYNARD), thought they were above everyone else because they were cousins with the Countess of Warwick, Daisy Maynard. My aunt asked a relative recently about this and it turns out Daisy Maynard was a cousin, 36 X removed......so basically impossible to actually prove. The Perry's were also proud that they were part of the Maynard's who started the Maynard candies. This also has not been proven.
Another goodie was that my nan's 2nd or 3rd great grandmother was Indian and that's the explanation for my brother and my dad having olive skin and dark eyes as well as my brother having a Mongolian Birth Mark. I've traced my nan's ancestors and there's nothing exciting there.
The only exciting story was that my 3rd great grandmother inherited some money when her mother died. With that money, she left her 5 children (one being an infant) and her husband in England to go to America with her boyfriend and started a whole new family. This story was kept a secret and when it was uncovered, the family member that found it immediately gave up on researching the family history ;D
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In complete contrast I have been able to prove all but one of the family stories told by my very dear mother-in-law concerning both her own family and my father-in-law's. She was a wonderful support when I began my research and I just wish she had lived to see what I have discovered. A very Happy Christmas to all Rootschatters :) :) :) :) :)
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The story that's been in our family for many years! My G Grandfathers brother James Brown, captained the Blackburn Rovers side in both the 1885 and '86 F.A cup finals, scoring the winning goals in both of their triumphs and then holding the trophy aloft to the jubilant fans! Also, he was an England International! My old uncle at 87 years old, still boastfully tells everyone about it to this day!
On research, James Brown did achieve all of these things! Unfortunately, not our one! Both born about the same time and place, two completely unrelated sets of parents though!
I'll not say anything to my uncle though, he likes telling the story!
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Another goodie was that my nan's 2nd or 3rd great grandmother was Indian and that's the explanation for my brother and my dad having olive skin and dark eyes as well as my brother having a Mongolian Birth Mark. I've traced my nan's ancestors and there's nothing exciting there.
It could have been another ancestor. As a midwife the only babies I ever saw with Mongolian birth marks were Asian babies.
By the way my dad and his siblings had olive skin and dark eyes, I've got very dark eyes and skin that I call "dirty looking", which goes olive if I get enough sun, but we know that is because my dad's g.grandmother was Spanish. Some of my cousins have the "Spanish" gene as does my daughter and her daughter, whereas my other children and grandchildren seem to have missed it.
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I had two silly stories in my tree.
I was assured my great grandfather played football for Arsenal. Turned out to be wrong - he worked at the Royal Arsenal (and wasn't on their early teams).
Secondly we have an item given to my great grandfather's brother by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (an inkwell). One family member said it was given in thanks because he "saved the life" of Conan Doyle. Complete rubbish. Though I was able to prove they would have met. He was stationed in Crowborough for WW1 training, where Conan Doyle lived. Doyle often used to give gifts away to soldiers and others.
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I was told that my great-grandmother's stepfather was a big man, a six-footer. But I found a picture of him standing next to my great-grandfather who was 5'3" and he is barely taller than him, probably 5'7" at the very most.
My great-grandmother was 4'9" though so he must have been very imposing to her!
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Not my own family that this 'legend' comes from but from an old forum in 1999. They state that the info came from"church records in Dingwall" and I would love to know if there is any truth in it as it may help lots of people. :)
"the name McLennan in Cromarty that before 1745 they were MacLennans but due to the local minister who registered births they were told that there was no such name as MacLennan, and therefore some births were registered as McLeman. Around 1900 the true story of the name came out and most of the people in Cromarty changed it back to McLennan."
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I've been told I am related to Howard Hughes, Sir Anthony Eden, Jane Russell, and David Moyes.
So far I've found two thieves and a brothel keeper, with no sign of any such proof I'm related to any of the names above.
Sometimes I do wonder that most people fall under the myth of name association. i.e Howard Hughes must be a relation because we have the same surname. I think this is what has happened in my family.
Matt ;)
Hi Matt, we must be related!!! My maternal Grandmother was an Edden and the family story was that Sir Anthony had originally had the surname Edden but had removed a 'd' to make the name sound less harsh. Unless Sir Anthony descended from Plasterers from Bury St Edmunds then I think this is very unlikely! :)
Heather
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My family legend story turned out just the opposite to nonsense, my mother parents, my maternal grandfathers side, all mums siblings knew was their Great granddad had topped himself and it was never talked about in the family. Strange story, (one in reality for Sir Arthur Conan Doyle ) it turned out my GT x 2 granddad was a poacher with his much elder brother, in 1859 they had encountered the local gamekeeper, in short being they killed him, the brother got the full blame transported for life and Gt x 2 granddad got 2 years for playing a lesser part in the crime. After Gt granddad got out of prison, he went to working in mining, given the job by a local magistrate who also owned a mine, Gt granddad was in trouble again for killing a women who he was having an affair with but was found not guilty, he put another gamekeeper in hospital, killed 4 more women and admitted he killed the game keeper in 1859 not his brother in his suicide letter after he topped himself after he found out the police had finally cottoned on to and after him.
Mum never found out the truth before she died and I only found out through ancestry research. :-[
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[quote author=HeatherLynne lin
Hi Matt, we must be related!!! My maternal Grandmother was an Edden and the family story was that Sir Anthony had originally had the surname Edden but had removed a 'd' to make the name sound less harsh. Unless Sir Anthony descended from Plasterers from Bury St Edmunds then I think this is very unlikely! :)
Heather
[/quote]Hello Heather,
There are Eddens in this area (Tamworth, Staffs), one of whom was awarded the VC after the Balaclava bust-up. Any links?
Maurice.
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Hi Maurice, no I don't think so. I've just checked my tree and I was getting confused, my Eddens were nearly all plasterers but from Marylebone then St Pancras then Islington from around 1790s to 1940s. I've often come across the Eddens from Tamworth when searching for my folk but not found any links any further north than London yet!
However at least 10 of the men in the family have Rose as a middle name - four Samuel Rose Edden, four William Rose Edden and two George Rose Eddens all born between 1807 and 1891. Are there any Rose connections in the Tamworth clan?
Heather
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Sorry Heather, No knowledge, but I can enquire. We had a neighbour, George Edden, who recently died in his nineties, and my only recent contact with the family is with Roy Ashwood, a local man, who has written a book ("Old Balaclava") about his VC ancestor.
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My paternal Grandmother used to claim that our family was related to Captain Lawrence Oates - he of the Scott's Antarctic expedition. Sadly, there is not even a remote link to the name Oates, let alone Captain Oates.
I have no idea why she made the claim.
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My paternal Grandmother used to claim that our family was related to Captain Lawrence Oates - he of the Scott's Antarctic expedition. Sadly, there is not even a remote link to the name Oates, let alone Captain Oates.
I have no idea why she made the claim.
Sometimes family stories get a bit muddled over the years (think of the game 'Chinese Whispers')- perhaps Captain Oates' family were neighbours or came from the same village/area? Or a cousin of his married a cousin who had a relative related to you...
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Yes I agree ! with aghadowey. If say a grandparents brother or sister marries into a family where a past down family story legend origins comes from a spouses in law family and just tracing back actual direct family maiden and paternal surnames searches of the story reveal nothing.
As a kid my dads brothers wife being my aunty in law, we used to visit her sister a lot as my mum, my aunty in law and her sister were big friends as spinsters being domestic maids before any of them married, I always called and treated that sister as an aunty - even though she was not directly or direct marriage in law related but a side shoot of.....an in law ( and big whole life friend of mum acting like sisters). There are a few tales in that in law side shoot sisters family intermixed with my own direct family, ;D that will pass down the generations that say in 150 years will baffle ancestry researches who will never know anything from BMD records or censuses only - even in the computer age. ~~~~ 60 plus years has already passed since that time !! in the post WW2 years still passing down the tales of old in the family by living people ~ me and my 7 years elder brother. ;D ;D ;D.
Ps. To complicate matters ~ Mums dad, my actual granddad was born 1867 and died 1957 aged 90 and I use to sit on his knee as a kid.- Mum born 1908 spent 12 years of her early life with her granddad born 1844 and told me stories from his time as a kid and her dads. Now its 2017 - mind boggles
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And sometimes a story is deliberately fabricated, to throw people off the scent.
Take the story, for instance, that the King-Spooner surname came about because a Mrs Spooner, after being widowed, remarried a Mr King, and the children were unfortunately named King-Spooner.
I have relatives who have had this story handed down to them through the family, and it has thrown their researches completely off course, because it is pure fabrication. In this case, it appears that it was fabricated to cover up a potentially bigamous marriage.
Happy to share my researches on this point with any other King-Spooner descendants by private message on this site. Not everyone is persuaded by what I have got, but the documentation all seems to point in the same direction to me.