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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Surrey => Topic started by: Roy G on Tuesday 05 April 11 17:00 BST (UK)
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Ripszam Henrik was born in Hungary on 1 Feb 1889.
He became a famous sculptor and Orienteer and married Mary L Keay in London in 1932.
His final years were spent in Ockley Surrey and I have it from Wikipedia that his ashes were buried (not scattered) in December 1976 in the cemetery Oakwood Hill Church.
A Briony Thomas wrote about him in the Oakwood Parish Magazine in January 1977 so I would be very interested to know what that article contained. A bonus would be if anyone has any further information on him, where he lived, or knowledge of any descendants that are still around. Roy G
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or knowledge of any descendants that are still around.
Mary died 1968 in Surrey aged 74
They are both shown arriving in Liverpool from Bombay on 31.5.1939 - Henrik 50 occ artist and Mary L 45
Address shown as Hazels, Wallis Wood, Ockley, Surrey
No children with them and given Mary's age at that time - doubtful they had any
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Thanks for that CW. The age of Mary and year of her death adds another couple of pieces to the jigsaw.
I understand that every year the village has a flower show and a race in his name and makes an award, but little else is known about him, other than he represented Hungary in the 1912 Olympics. Topical thought, given that it's the centenary of that event next year. Roy G
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CaroleW: (or anyone else)
Could I ask another favour regarding a childless Henry & Mary Ripszam arriving in Liverpool from Bombay on 31.5.1939.
A recently translated letter of Henry's suggests that although they had no children, Mary had two sons from a previous relationship. I know nothing about them, no first or second names, only that in 1939, they would have been of college or university age (late teens or early 20s).
I am therefore hoping that these two accompanied Henry and Mary back from Bombay and the passenger list you obtained the information from is not alphabetical so that their names precede or follow Henry & Mary's. The only other information I can offer is that their surnames COULD BE any of the following. Keay(s), Whitehouse, Hagan, Rutter, or Jacobs.
The chance that all four of them were together is very remote I know, but I'm at that clutching at straws stage. Roy G
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The page on which their entry appears shows only 2 other entries of persons in their 20's - both were female employees of the Bank of New South Wales in Berkeley Square. All others were in their 30's and upwards. The page is not in alphabetical order
I have searched the incoming lists under all names given above and none match an arrival date of 31.5.1939
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Thanks anyway, hope you didnt mind looking. (What was the name of the ship by the way?) Roy G
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The Samaria - Anchor Line - Official Number: 165934
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The Times 11th August 1932
Mr H. Ripszam and Miss M.L .Keay
The marriage arranged between Mr. Henrik Ripzam of Budapest, member of the Hungarian Salon, and Miss Mary Lillian Keay, younger daughter of the late Mr. and Mrs. E.C. Keay, of Edgbaston, will take place quietly in London, on August 25.
The Times 5th March 1968
Memorial Services
A memorial service for Mrs. Mary Lilian Ripszam will be held on Saturday March 9th at St George’s Church, Oakwood Hill, Ockley, Surrey.
The Times 4th December 1976
Deaths
Ripszam – On December 2nd 1976, peacefully at his home, The Hazels, Wallis Wood, Henrik in his 88th year, Service December 16th at Oakwood Hill Church near Dorking.
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Thanks Dave Jones,
Those three entries from the Times convert supposition into fact. Next step which may also be in the Times, is to find whether Mary Liliian Keay was actually a single woman, widow or a divorcee who had reverted to her maiden name. (I think she brought two children into the marriage) Would the Times have record of an earlier marriage or a divorce, for the late Ernest Charles Keay (died 1932) was a major industrialist and the family were well placed financially?
Note Mary was born 1894, so could have married from about 1914 onwards. My suspicions fall on a Walter Hagan but I have no proof that that was her marriage and it ended,
Roy G
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Next step which may also be in the Times, is to find whether Mary Liliian Keay was actually a single woman, widow or a divorcee who had reverted to her maiden name.
A copy of the 1932 marriage cert would not only give you that info but would also give her fathers name and occupation which gives you her birth surname and possibly enables you to find her in 1901 and 1911
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Thanks CarolW
I do have that info, well all except the 1911 census when I presume she was at finishing school abroard. What I am trying to sort out is when she married Henry at the age of 39, was she still a miss as The Times writes, but with two teenage sons?
Logic suggests she got divorced and reverted to her maiden name. The kids probably hardly ever saw their mother anyway for they too would have also been educated at private residential schools. Perhaps the answer may be in a Birmingham electoral Roll or her father's will (in 1932 he left Ł400,000)
Roy G
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Presume this is her birth reg?
Births September qtr 1893
Mary Lilian Keay Kings Norton 6c 423
If you are using the 1914 marriage on freebmd to Walter Hagan to guess at a possible marriage - www.staffordshirebmd.org.uk show her as Mary Louisa Keay
but with two teenage sons.
If you know she had 2 sons - you presumably know their names and birthyears so have you checked freebmd for their birth registrations to see what surname they were registered under? Births from the September qtr 1911 show mothers maiden name against the entry
Logic suggests she got divorced and reverted to her maiden name.
She may well have done - but it is also possible that both sons were illegitimate
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Thanks again Carol, I had the birth but had not spotted that one marriage was for a Mary Lilian the other to a Louise. As for her sons, I have no names, ages or anything. All I have is a copy of a letter from their stepfather dated 1937 saying in Hungarian .he was not going to send their sons abroad to study his language with the Nazis so close He stated one wants to be doctor the other a diplomat.
Have nevertheless checked Freebmd for possible base borns but due to the family background am sceptical of those that do occur in the area. She being a wealthy divorcee seems the most plausible solution Roy G
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Perhaps the wills of the Ripszams would give you the answer.
You would expect at least one to mention any children.
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Now waiting for copies of the wills Roy G
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To Dave Jones.
I hope you dont mind Dave, but I am seeking a little verification on the following piece from The Times 5th March 1968.
Memorial Services
A memorial service for Mrs. Mary Lilian Ripszam will be held on Saturday March 9th at St George’s Church, Oakwood Hill, Ockley, Surrey.
I am advised by the parish Archivist that the church is St John The Baptist, so just wanted to check whether The Times had printed the incorrect saint, or there was a momentary loss of concentration on your part. Roy G
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This is Csaba from Hungary. I wanted to know my anchestors better, so I searched the Internet tonight. I hoped I would find some hungarian data, but fortunatelly I found this forum.
My grandmother was called Ripszám Klára. She was born in Bóly, Hungary. Just like Ripszám Henrik. Ripszám Henrik must be a relative of mine!
Ripszám Henrik, or Henry Ripszam was born in Bóly in 1889. He became an artist and orienteer. Hungarian champion in 1911, and athlete of the Stockholm Olimpic Games. He left Hungary in 1926, and went to England.
My grandmother's father (my great-grandfather) was called Ripszám Nándor. He also lived in Bóly. My father told me, Nándor visited somebody in England in the '30s, or the '40s. But he didn't know, who was visited, or why my great-grandfather travelled to England that time. This was a poor family, so my great-grandfater was no turist, for sure.
My great-grandfather died in the '70s, so the story had been forgotten in my family.
When my grandmother died, I found two porcelain cups in her house. They were english made cups, from the 1910s. My father told me, my great-grandfather brought them from England.
I think, Ripszám Henrik and Ripszám Nándor were brothers. So Ripszám Henrik was my grandmother's uncle. I will make it clear.
If somebody knows anything about his English life, please inform me. If somebody has a photo, I will be glad, if I can take a look on it. I would like to visit his house and his tomb.
Thank You
Csaba
Hungary
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Hi Csaba,
I live in Hungary too and conducted the research on Henry Ripszam on behalf of the Hungarian Orienteering Association. I have a lot of info on Henry, including pictures of him, his work and his grave, and know of his 3 sisters, brother Josef, but nothing on a brother or cousin Nandor, so I would be interested in comparing notes with you.
For example, I have Henry's grandfather and his aunts and uncles
Grandfather Lucas Riepszam Grandmother: Barbara Kaeszdorf
Their children:
Johanes 1860, Henricus 1864 (Henry's father), Josef 1868, Katalin 1870, Adam 1873, Borbala 1875.
With 4 uncles, probability suggests your Nandor Ripszam was Henry's cousin.
I have sent you a personal message with my Hungarian e-mail address so we can discuss things off list.
Roy G (Budapest)
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Csaba
Érdemes lenne összevetni a kutatásainkat, amit eddíg sikerült Hanrikről kiderítenem azokat már feltettem a wikipediára, még nem jöttem rá hol csatlakozik a mi családunkhoz. Gyerekkoromban emlegették mint távoli rokont, de még hiányzik 1 láncszem. Ezek szerint valahol összeérnek a gyökereink.
Az Ancestry-n és a MyHeritage-n is fent van már a fa, de nem publikus, mai címre tudok küldeni betekintést ha érdekel.
gmailra is írhatsz
Üdv Ripszi
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Dear All,
It looks as though I have found another Hungarian Ripszam researcher who has his family tree but cannot see how it links to the sculptor/athlete Henry Ripszam who came to England in 1926. I have sent a personal message to him in Hungarian off list so that we can swap info, and am hoping his information ties into the family I have documented from Henry's Grandfather Lucas (born c1820) to the present day. They were Catholics from the region around Pecs and the family spread is quite extensive.
Looking forward to hearing from you Ripszi
Roy G
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Megkaptam a személyes üzenetet de sajnos nem találtam rá a válasz gombra ezért újra itt írok.
Gmail-en könnyebb lenne, ugyan ez a név csupa kisbetüvel.
Szívesen megosztom és cserélem az infokat. Apám mindkét felmenő ágán Ripszám és Riepsam név is előfordul, eddig legkorábbi Anna Ripszam ~1837, apja Johann Riepsam valószínű a Henrik felé vezető ág.
Bonyolult inkább megmutatnám a fát- ;)
Üdv Ripszi
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Ripszi
Sorry, but this site has a moderator that reads every message in order to ensure we do not infringe any of the UK privacy laws or pass e-mail addresses in an open forum. I can see that you have not infringed those laws, but as it is unfair to discuss research in a foreign language, I shall be getting in touch with you direct. Roy G
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Dear Roy G
I know I am being a little bit hopeful as it is some 18months since this topic has been active but in the course of doing some research I have just come across this exchange of information.
I have a couple of small pieces of figurative sculpture by Riszam and I am trying to discover if there are other examples about, or even photographs of other examples.
Do you by any chance have any pieces or know the whereabouts of any examples.
My pieces are both signed and dated 1958 so the were done fairly late in his life ( at 69years old I think) so were presumably presumably done when he lived in Ockley.
Any sort of information regarding the artistic side of his life would be most welcome.
Best regards
B and S B
I am situated not too far from Ockley. About 20 miles away and if there is any information or records available to the public in that area I would be happy to travel to see it.
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Hi B & SB.
I thought the Rippi topic was done and dusted, just shows, you never can tell.
It's great to hear of people in the UK that still have some of Rippi's sculptures, most were either lost or not appreciated for what they were, although a few have found their way into UK and Hungarian State collections. In the early 1970s, a major Budapest art gallery even held an exhibition of his work, and they recently let me copy of some of the artifacts shown in the programe published at the time.
I don't have any sculptures myself, I was just helping someone out here in Hungary unravel the life history of the man who is credited as having introduced the sport of orienteering into the country after participating in it in Scandinavia. What I do have is a book of his sketches of significant Russians that he drew whilst in captivity. The former Communist leadership banned that book soon after its publication, but I did manage to get a copy post 1990 when collections from their own archives were up for grabs.
His life story is most intriguing. Born in the rural south, studied at various art colleges, designed houses, became an Olympic athlete (1912), conscripted into WW1, captured Poland 1915, held prisoner in a Siberian labour camp, and on his release became a poster designer, cartographer, artist, sculptor, and a conservationist. He eventually married the daughter of a bridge designer and manufacturer from the Birmingham area whose father's firm (I presume) may have had a hand in casting his bronzes. His ashes were placed by the wall of Ockley church, but the bronze motive he designed to go over the spot, has been 'removed' by a less scrupulous member of the public. Hopefully they were impoverished appreciators of his technique rather than just seeking its value as scrap metal.
I will try to send you a personal message so we can chat off line and hopefully, in exchange for some further illustrations of his other work and details of his general artistic background, you will kindly let me have copy pictures of the two artifacts you have obtained. They may even appear in a some post WW2 photos I have of him in his studio surrounded by his work.
Yours Roy G
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Brian: Thank you for your off list response. I have sent a couple of messages direct to your home e-mail address, but if you have not received these, check your virus vault. There have been occasions where messages from former Eastern Europe which contain funny accents in the provider's supporting text, have been treated with suspicion by the recipient's computer and for safety's sake, they have been sidelined. Regards, Roy G
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Roy, hi! I just came across your posts about Henrik Ripszám and am now hoping to be able to get in touch with you. I am interested in Ripszám in the framework of my PhD, in which I am researching painters who were war prisoners in Siberia during WWI. I have been on the topic for a while, but have only recently started to do more in-depth research on the Hungarians, seen as I only just about now have worked up the language skills.
So far, I know very little about his time in Siberia apart from a 1923 exhibition catalogue. Especially seen as you mentioned you had a sketchbook of his that he drew whilst in captivity I would be really happy to get in touch and find out more! Here's hoping for the best..
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Hi IrkutskLena
I have sent you a personal message with my e-mail address so that we can converse more conveniently.
We are fortunate that a Hungarian writer colleague of Henry's was also imprisoned with him so we have quite a detailed description of his journey to Siberia and the time he spent incarcerated.
Have you also looked at his prison details on the WW1 Red Cross website?
What I found most fascinating was that when Swiss agents from the Red Cross made prison visits they purchased trench art from the captives. As he was both a sculptor and artist, Henry sold many artifacts and in doing so, incurred the wrath of his compatriots whose less talented work was rejected.
Roy G
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Hello! Thank you very much for your rapid response!
I literally discovered Ripszám's name today as I was going through Hungarian exhibition material from the early 1920ies, so I haven't even had the chance to look him up in Hungarian art dictionaries.
I must admit that I am not even familiar with the Red Cross website providing any information on single POWs. I usually work with the POW catalogues of their home countries.
Indeed it was very common for the representatives of various relief agencies to buy POW art, sometimes for their private collections, and sometimes for their institutions. I have the impression that the artists in Russian captivity functioned just like elsewhere, that is some supported each other and organized exhibitions together, while disregarding others for their "lack of talent" or professionalism. There were those that were happy to make money producing applied artwork, while others were purists and insisted on creating only "pure" art, even if that meant foregoing the possibility to make a living. In any case it is very different from what you expect to have happened in a prisoner of war camp.
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Afternoon.
I was wondering if you can help. I understand that Mr Henry Ripszam bequeathed some land around his house in Ockley when he passed away to the Wildlife Trust. The Wildlife Trust have today submitted a planning application to turn this into a camp site. Surely this is not what Mr Ripszam would have wanted. In previous messages I have seen a reference to his will. Would I be able to check this and see if their were any conditions? I look forward to hearing from you and thank you for your assistance. Many thanks. Kind regards Gerry (a neighbour of The Hazels where Mr Ripszam used to live.)
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Welcome to Rootschat, gerrydmartin.
You can order a copy of the will online - it will cost you Ł10. Probate was granted in 1976.
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#calendar
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Hi Gerry,
Thank you for your message and the information about recent developments relating to the former home of Henry Ripszam.
I think I am going to sit on the fence with my own answer, for I have deduced that Henry and his wife Molly loved gardens and open spaces, and as former Olympian himself, Henry was also keen on young people enjoying the countryside and participating in sport. As you may recall, the couple left cups bearing their names to be presented annually at the local flower show and running race. What may be less known is that in his past life in your locality, Henry fostered both the local football and (surprisingly for a Hungarian) the local cricket teams. So whether the couple even considered that their former home with its beautiful gardens would become a guesthouse, or the land around it could be put to the use that undoubtedly concerns you is a matter of conjecture.
Yes I do have copies of Henry's and I think Molly's wills somewhere, but have admit it is a long time since I looked at either of them. I will endeavor to find them and look at the wording of the bequest, but from what I recall, that aspect was brief and not very informative. The land was just given to the Trust without conditions to do as they thought best.
Regards Roy G
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Hello again
I have now found the only copy I have which is a codicil to Henry's main will.
There are no restrictions placed on the land or its usage. The text is as follows.
I devise and bequeath to the Surrey Naturalists Trust Ltd whose registered offices are at Juniper Hall Field Centre Dorking in the county of Surrey, all that piece or parcel of land surrounding the Studio at Hazals Wallis Wood Ockley aforesaid as the same is for identification purposes only coloured green on the plan attached to a deed of gift dated 27 February 1974 and made between myself on the one part and The Surrey Naturalists Trust of the other part.
There was no map attached to my copy of the will, so you may wish to follow up that particular aspect with The Trust themselves.
Roy G
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Thanks Roy for your emails, which are greatly appreciated. Kind regards
Gerry
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Can Anyone point me in the direction of any details of this artist sculptors work please. I have discovered I am the owner of one of his pieces and looking for information