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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Barnee on Friday 15 April 11 09:25 BST (UK)

Title: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: Barnee on Friday 15 April 11 09:25 BST (UK)
Can anyone assist me please. I am trying to locate records of  a John Beckman born 1887 in Healesville Victoria Australia notice of death.Thanks Barnee
Title: Re: Beckman
Post by: sparrett on Friday 15 April 11 09:28 BST (UK)
Who, if you know, were John's parents, Barnee?

Sue
Title: Re: Beckman
Post by: ennael on Friday 15 April 11 09:54 BST (UK)
this looks to be Johns' WW1 service record:
BECKMAN John SERN 1611
POB Healesville VIC
POE Melbourne VIC
NOK W Beckman Gertrude
Page 1 gives date of birth as:
23rd April 1887
digitised and available for viewing online

www.naa.gov.au
record search

Leanne
Title: Re: Beckman
Post by: Barnee on Friday 15 April 11 10:41 BST (UK)
Hello Sue  Johns parents were Hinirich Beckmann and Maria Christina Peterson.
Title: Re: Beckman
Post by: Raylen on Friday 15 April 11 11:51 BST (UK)




Hi Barnee

Just a bit more information from your other posting
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,1307.15.html
 to help us search for you  :D

I  am researching my grandmother first husbands tree. He was a John Beckman(N) who parents were Henry Beckmann and Maria Christina ( nee  Peterson )Beckman. They originated from Europe.  My grandmother married Mr. Beckman in 1914 in Australia. Now Mr Henry Beckman and Maria  travelled to Australia from the America's in around 1863 and was known to be in NZ before arriving in Australia. . Could there be a connection...... as there are a few Beckmans in Sydney area and some from South Australia and  Victoria Australia. You may  wish to view online indexes on those states mention. I am still looking for John Beckman,,,also known as Albert, John, Charles just to name a few alias ....  I would like to find the mystery of my missing Mr. Beckman... as no one knows what has happened.Cheers Barnee

Raylen
Title: Re: Beckman
Post by: ennael on Friday 15 April 11 12:00 BST (UK)
looks like a divorce for John and Gertrude:
0360
1922

BECKMAN John Murray
BECKMAN Gertrude Maria

http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/keyname.aspx

Leanne
Title: Re: Beckman
Post by: Barnee on Saturday 16 April 11 02:23 BST (UK)




Hi Barnee

Just a bit more information from your other posting
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,1307.15.html
 to help us search for you  :D

I  am researching my grandmother first husbands tree. He was a John Beckman(N) who parents were Henry Beckmann and Maria Christina ( nee  Peterson )Beckman. They originated from Europe.  My grandmother married Mr. Beckman in 1914 in Australia.
Raylen
Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: EPB on Tuesday 10 August 21 15:09 BST (UK)
Hi Raylen!

Your query was ten years ago but I believe the man you are looking for may be my grandfather. I have been doing a deep dive into tracking down his family history and if I'm correct, he indeed went by many aliases, I am now discovering! I'd really love to find out what you can tell me about his double/triple/quadruple lives, as my mother had no idea and only knew him by one name.

If your mysterious John Beckman is my grandfather, he died in 1964 in Ballarat, Victoria Australia. He had many siblings, most of them half-siblings, and I believe one full sibling. I believe I have found records for at least four children including my mother, and am scouring to find perhaps more.

If your grandmother was Maria 'Gertrude' Reidy, whom John was married to from 1914-1922, then I have found a John Murray Beckman b1914, Albert Petersen Murray Beckman b.1917, and David Murray Beckman, aka 'Beckman', b.1922.

If your grandmother was another of Beckman's marriages I would love to hear from you, hopefully together we can piece together some mysteries?

Hopefully you are still active here and we can connect.

Em

Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: sarah on Tuesday 10 August 21 16:16 BST (UK)
Hello Em,

Welcome to RootsChat :)

I checked on this member for you and can see that they have turned off email notification from us so they have opted for no further contact. I am very sorry about this it is most unusual as most continue to be interested.  ??? Old members do get in touch all the time, hoping that this is the case for you.

Regards

Sarah
Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: EPB on Tuesday 10 August 21 16:25 BST (UK)
Thanks Sarah!

What a shame, but thank you for letting me know. John Beckman was a real mystery man, I would have loved to join forces with the other person tracking down his aliases! Appreciate your help, perhaps they will check in some day and see this :)

Thanks,

Emma
Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: sparrett on Wednesday 11 August 21 00:05 BST (UK)
Hi EPB,
In the absence of Barnee, if there is anything you would like help with let us know.

Many here have good offline resources for Australian research and will be keen to assist.

Apart from that, much has become available online in the last 10 years so that new material for your search is quite probably available.

So just call out if you want company in your digging ;D
Sue
Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: EPB on Wednesday 11 August 21 02:00 BST (UK)
Thanks Sue!

Some help would be amazing. This is a complicated trail that keeps getting more convoluted! I am currently searching for the following:

Marriage /Divorce records for:
Albert Edward Cotton and Maria Gertrude Reidy Beckman, NSW


('Gertrude' divorced John Beckman in 1922 and seems to have been with AEC at the time and had children with him, she is noted to have died in 1969 but AEC married again in 1942, I can't find any marriage or divorce records of AEC to Gertrude?)
AEC is listed to have been born in Derby, Tasmania circa 1900, and to have died in 1979, Erskineville

Marriage and divorce records for:
Albert Edward Cotton and Delphine Robeson, NSW


I believe they married in 1942 Chatswood but I suspect divorced within ten years?

Any information on Delphine Robeson in Australia? Possibly Delphine Shirley Robeson. Or Delphine Cotton?

I have seen a reference on myheritagecom that she was listed on QLD Electoral roll in 1959 in Charlton, via Toowoomba, QLD, home duties but I can't find a record of it so can't verify that.
I can't find Australia birth records for Delphine, before her marriage to AEC it's been zip. I can find a Delphine Robeson in Texas but no record of her arrival in Australia, so unsure if this is the same person.

A birth and a death certificate for Albert Edward 'Alf' Cotton?

I've seen mentioned that AEC was born circa 1900, perhaps in Tasmania, and there is a Sydney Morning Herald death announcement I haven't been able to access, June 2 1979 Sydney Morning Herald, noting death date of May 31 1979, late of Erskineville

Any clear birth and death records for a John Beckman, born circa 1890-1900.

I suspect 'my' John Beckman was an alias so am not expecting these to be him but if I can rule out any other John Beckmans that would be helpful!

If John Beckman was indeed an alias, I am also curious to find where the 'John' came from, as I know where the Murray and Beckman came from. For anyone who knows about historical aliases (I am new to this), would 'John' simply have been an easy name to assume at the time, or is it likely he would have had to have 'aquired' it somehow?

This is a lot, thank you for anyone who can help me unravel any of these mysteries!

EPB
 
Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: Dundee on Wednesday 11 August 21 02:24 BST (UK)

Marriage and divorce records for:
Albert Edward Cotton and Delphine Robeson, NSW


I believe they married in 1942 Chatswood but I suspect divorced within ten years?

Any information on Delphine Robeson in Australia? Possibly Delphine Shirley Robeson. Or Delphine Cotton?

I have seen a reference on myheritagecom that she was listed on QLD Electoral roll in 1959 in Charlton, via Toowoomba, QLD, home duties but I can't find a record of it so can't verify that.
I can't find Australia birth records for Delphine, before her marriage to AEC it's been zip. I can find a Delphine Robeson in Texas but no record of her arrival in Australia, so unsure if this is the same person.



You can check electoral rolls, Albert and Delphine are still together and living in Eskineville in 1978.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: Dundee on Wednesday 11 August 21 02:46 BST (UK)
Albert was the son of George Fordyce COTTON, Delphine died in 1982.

https://nmclm.com.au/find-a-loved-one/?site_id=6037

COTTON, DELPHIE
16718/1982
Mother: MAY

https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/188431519/delphi-cotton

Debra  :)
Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: Dundee on Wednesday 11 August 21 03:11 BST (UK)
Do you have this marriage cert?  It should name both of John's parents and give an age and place of birth.

1534/1914
BECKMAN, JOHN M
REIDY, MARIA G
ST LEONARDS

Is this info from the other thread from that marriage cert?

Hello   I  am researching my grandmother first husbands tree. He was a John Beckman(N) who parents were Henry Beckmann and Maria Christina ( nee  Peterson )Beckman.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: sparrett on Wednesday 11 August 21 03:39 BST (UK)
Ignore the sighting of Delphine Shirley ROBSON in Qld. 1958.

She was still there in 1980. Not your person.

Sue
Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: sparrett on Wednesday 11 August 21 03:55 BST (UK)
Albert was the son of George Fordyce COTTON, Delphine died in 1982.


Debra  :)

Another son of George Fordyce COTTON was Clement Laurence COTTON
He lived with his wife Caroline in the same building as Albert and Delphine COTTON in the electoral rolls around 1963 and 1868. Elliot Avenue Erskinville.

I see the WW1 enlistment for Clement who names his father and states he was born in Tasmania where his father still lives.
https://www.naa.gov.au/explore-collection

Sue

Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: bitzar on Wednesday 11 August 21 03:55 BST (UK)
BECKMAN sounds Germanic.  OP told us John's father was 'Hinirich' which could Heinrich.  Possibility that John could of been anglicized from Johann?!?!

bitzar.
Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: sparrett on Wednesday 11 August 21 08:46 BST (UK)

('Gertrude' divorced John Beckman in 1922 and seems to have been with AEC at the time and had children with him, she is noted to have died in 1969 but AEC married again in 1942, I can't find any marriage or divorce records of AEC to Gertrude?)
AEC is listed to have been born in Derby, Tasmania circa 1900, and to have died in 1979, Erskineville

 
 

I think there was not a marriage between Gertrude Maria and Albert Edward COTTON.

Her death notice is digitised through google archives and she died in her correct name Maria Gertrude BECKMAN.
The notice lists her named children and their spouses. I can send it to you if needed.

The children use the name COTTON on the electoral Roll with the exception of the eldest John  Murray (Jack) born 1914 at st Leonards (#50317) who uses the BECKMAN name.

On the NSW Electoral Roll, Gertrude uses the name Marea (sic) COTTON
The Death Notice spells it Maria.

At the time of Albert Edward COTTON's  enlistment for ww2. he stated his Next of Kin was Gertrude COTTON. He calls her his wife and states there are 3 children.  He gives her address and his as the same

By his discharge he lives at 135 Arthur Street North Sydney
There is a note of his marriage to Delphine.

https://www.naa.gov.au/explore-collection

 Sue
Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: Dundee on Wednesday 11 August 21 15:26 BST (UK)
Henry and Marie divorced in 1890.  Unfortunately the divorce papers are not digitised on PROV and Ancestry is missing the most relevant page in the middle of the document.  Henry names his seven surviving children out of 9  (it was actually 8 out of 10, he forgot one of the daughters) and the youngest was son Carl born in 1883.  The co-respondent was Robert FORCUS and from the rest of the document it looks like Marie started playing away from home around 1884.

She had two further sons,  Albert Peterson BECKMANN in 1887, father not named, and Leslie Petersen Forcus BECKMAN in 1889, father named as Henry but this seems highly unlikely.  Strangely there is another child registered in 1887....

20578 / 1887
FORCUS, Alfred Nottingham
Born Hotham

Mother: Mary BECKMAN
Father: Robert

FORCUS was later spelled FAWCUS.  I can see a family tree for this child and they have a date of birth as 22 May 1887 from his WW2 enlistment.  He died in 1964 at Ballaarat so do you think he is the same person as John BECKMAN?

Oh OK, in 1941 Alfred says he married his wife 'Anna' on 28 Jan 1914 and that is the same date that John BECKMAN married Maria Gertrude REIDY later COTTON.  Alfred says he had previously served in Rabaul in the Australian Naval and Military Expeditionary Force (AN&MEF) and that was where John BECKMAN served in WW1.

Talk about a tangled web.  ;D

Do you have any birth certs?  I'm still wondering how Marie could have two children registered in 1887 if one was born in May.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: EPB on Wednesday 11 August 21 16:09 BST (UK)
Hi Dundee!

Yes, it's a very tangled web. I can clear up some of this as I've been digging very deep since discovering John Beckman's existence a few days ago! It's been a very busy few days!

I'll post with a bit more detail shortly but to clear up the below discrepancies:

Henry and Marie divorced in 1890 and yes, Robert Forcus was the father of Marie’s two youngest sons, and the reason for the divorce! Marie and Henry’s children were Henrietta, Heinrich (died in childhood), Helena, Marie, Elsie, Anton (died in childhood), Annie, Henry and Carl. Eda, born between Annie and Henry, was understood by the Beckman’s to have not been Henry’s biological child and seems not to have been fully accepted as a Beckman by the family.

Marie left Beckman and had a child with Robert in 1887, whom she initially registered as Alfred Nottingham Forcus, with Robert as father, and a few months later, perhaps after a falling out with Robert, attempted to give Alfred legitimacy by registering the infant again, this time with the name Albert Petersen Beckman, listing her husband as the father, and Albert is the only name (most of) his family knew him by. Marie’s return to Ballarat with Alfred/Albert in tow was not welcomed however, and she returned to Robert, having another son with him in 1889 (Leslie Petersen Forcus Beckman).

And yes, Robert Beckman, Alfred Forcus/Fawcus and Albert Petersen are all the same person! Anna was my grandmother but they were not married in 1941, she was his common-law wife at that stage (they married in 1948) so the marriage date on Alfred’s enlistment papers was referring to his marriage to Gertrude.

They are definitely the same man. Same height, eye colour, vaccination scar, same parents, same marriage dates. And as OP mentioned, ‘her’ John Beckman went by many aliases! John Beckman’s military correspondence even show him using the name Albert, *and* A.N.Fawcus when you look closely, it almost feels like he was asking for someone to find him out!

So it seems we have discovered many of the same things in the last 24 hours! I hope this clears up some of the confusion, I’m piecing it all together rapidly but I’m confident the above is correct.

Was just about to post when I saw your response so clearing your questions up first, but will post more info below.
Henry and Marie divorced in 1890.  Unfortunately the divorce papers are not digitised on PROV and Ancestry is missing the most relevant page in the middle of the document.  Henry names his seven surviving children out of 9  (it was actually 8 out of 10, he forgot one of the daughters) and the youngest was son Carl born in 1883.  The co-respondent was Robert FORCUS and from the rest of the document it looks like Marie started playing away from home around 1884.

She had two further sons,  Albert Peterson BECKMANN in 1887, father not named, and Leslie Petersen Forcus BECKMAN in 1889, father named as Henry but this seems highly unlikely.  Strangely there is another child registered in 1887....

20578 / 1887
FORCUS, Alfred Nottingham
Born Hotham

Mother: Mary BECKMAN
Father: Robert

FORCUS was later spelled FAWCUS.  I can see a family tree for this child and they have a date of birth as 22 May 1887 from his WW2 enlistment.  He died in 1964 at Ballaarat so do you think he is the same person as John BECKMAN?

Oh OK, in 1941 Alfred says he married his wife 'Anna' on 28 Jan 1914 and that is the same date that John BECKMAN married Maria Gertrude REIDY later COTTON.  Alfred says he had previously served in Rabaul in the Australian Naval and Military Expeditionary Force (AN&MEF) and that was where John BECKMAN served in WW1.

Talk about a tangled web.  ;D

Do you have any birth certs?  I'm still wondering how Marie could have two children registered in 1887 if one was born in May.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: EPB on Wednesday 11 August 21 16:12 BST (UK)
Thank you Sue!
Yes I would love to see her death notice. On the electoral roll do *all* her children go by Cotton other than Jack? Even her second son Albert Peterson Murray-Beckman? I know he enlisted under the Murray-Beckman name, as did David.
 
[/quote]

I think there was not a marriage between Gertrude Maria and Albert Edward COTTON.

Her death notice is digitised through google archives and she died in her correct name Maria Gertrude BECKMAN.
The notice lists her named children and their spouses. I can send it to you if needed.

The children use the name COTTON on the electoral Roll with the exception of the eldest John  Murray (Jack) born 1914 at st Leonards (#50317) who uses the BECKMAN name.

On the NSW Electoral Roll, Gertrude uses the name Marea (sic) COTTON
The Death Notice spells it Maria.

At the time of Albert Edward COTTON's  enlistment for ww2. he stated his Next of Kin was Gertrude COTTON. He calls her his wife and states there are 3 children.  He gives her address and his as the same

By his discharge he lives at 135 Arthur Street North Sydney
There is a note of his marriage to Delphine.

https://www.naa.gov.au/explore-collection

 Sue
[/quote]
Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: EPB on Wednesday 11 August 21 16:19 BST (UK)
Thanks so much everyone!

Since discovering this thread, in the last couple of days I've been unravelling a lot we didn't know about my grandfather!
I've been digging more in the last 24 hours so here is more information which might help.

Re: Gertrude and John's marriage and divorce - I haven't viewed these certificates so can't see what parentage was listed, but have confirmed they exist. Given Beckman's predilection for aliases, his own account of his parentage may or may not be accurate!

Gertrude Reidy/John Beckman Marriage: 1534/1914 NSW

Gertrude Reidy/John Beckman Divorce: 0360/1922 NSW

Gertrude/Reidy Children:
John Murray Beckman, b1914 St Leonards NSW  (Apparently had a child who was a roots user here, Bev Eliott? According to Bev, her father was known as 'Jack'. Bev would be my mother's niece, making her my first cousin - Bev if you are still around I'd love to hear from you!)
Albert Petersen Murray Beckman, b1917 St Leonard's NSW (m.Marion?)(d. WA according to niece Bev Eliott)

(Possibly?) David Murray Beckman b1922, nicknamed 'Beckman, d2007'


I've found a family tree that lists David Murray Beckman as the first son of Maria Gertrude Reidy Beckman Cotton, and Albert 'Alf' Edward Cotton, and I believe they had two more children together. Possibly a Judy Wymer née Cotton/Beckman, (m. Neil Robert Wymer?) and possibly a Noel Cotton / Noel Beckman. I believe Neil and Judy(?) may have had two children, one of them may be the OP of this thread (Barnee/Raelen?).

It's very complicated! The more I look into it the more complicated it gets. Here are some of the key mysteries / information, OR you can scroll down to get quickly to the list of known aliases:

David Murray Beckman seems to have been raised by Albert Edward Cotton, Gertrude's second husband. I have seen mention of him being known by the nickname 'Beckman' which seems odd if John divorced his mother over his conception with Cotton. Another confusing thing is the same family tree mentions Albert Edward Cotton was also known as 'Alf' - a bizarre coincidence if true! I've confirmed that the Cotton who became Gertrude's common-law husband was definitely *not* the same man as John Beckman and Alfred Fawcus, despite the names 'Alf' and 'Albert' - his military record clearly shows it couldn't have been him.

OP mentioned that John Beckman had many aliases/names, including Albert, John and Charles. I haven't yet found a record of him clearly using the name Charles, but there are certainly many potential leads to follow. His half-brother Carl Beckman died in 1906 aged 22, so it's possible that he picked the name Charles up from there? Carl was born in 1884, so if this is the case he could have quite easily passed himself off as three years older than his actual age, if using the name outside of Victoria I imagine it would have been quite easy to do but I haven't begun to look into the Charles alias yet! So that is a theory. Below is what I know at this stage about the names my grandfather went by:
Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: EPB on Wednesday 11 August 21 16:20 BST (UK)
1887: ALFRED NOTTINGHAM FORCUS:
Initially registered by birth parents Maria Christina Petersen and Robert Flinn Forcus, as Alfred Nottingham Forcus. (VIC 1887/10058)Maria was married to Heinrich Detlef Beckmann at the time, but had two sons with Robert Forcus/Fawcus: Alfred/Albert in 1887, and Leslie Petersen Forcus Beckman in 1889.

1887 ALBERT PETERSEN BECKMANN:
Marie appears to have quickly had second thoughts about leaving Heinrich for Robert and a few months later registered Alfred's birth a second time, as Albert Peterson Beckmann, (VIC 1887/29668) naming his parents as Marie and Henry Beckman. He was then known to his family as Albert, most of whom appear to have not known him under other names, with the exception of his elder half-sister Eda, who was in touch with him later in life when he was using his original name Alfred Nottingham Fawcus (the spelling Forcus/Fawcus appears to have been used at various times by Alfred, his father Robert, who was born in Collingwood in 1859/1860, and by his grandfather who was also named Robert Flinn/Flynn Forcus/Fawcus). Alfred/Albert/John's father and Marie appear to have split not long after, or perhaps before, Leslie's birth, and Marie returned to the Ballarat area, where she lived til her death in 1934. Her death certificate lists the name Albert Petersen as being her second youngest son, the name most of his family seem to have known him exclusively by. So this seems to be his 'Official' name, though his original name was in fact Alfred Nottingham Forcus I haven't yet found a record of him using it before 1939.
Albert Petersen seems to have been the name he used for most of his earliest life, in Victoria. His birth was registered as being in Lilydale, while 'Alfred' was registered in Hotham. Both 'John' and 'Alfred' named Healesville as their POB later in life. John Beckman passed the name Petersen on to at least one of his children, Albert Petersen Murray Beckman, b.1917. He is listed as Albert Petersen on his mother's death certificate in 1934.

1914 JOHN BECKMAN
In NSW record of marriage to Maria Gertrude Reidy, St Leonard's NSW. Date of marriage was 28th January 1914, 1534/1914


1918 JOHN BECKMAN
Record of Military enlistment, Gertrude Beckman listed as wife
His military record shows he initially enlisted for WWI on 27th April 1918, and he gives his DOB varyingly as 23rd or 24th April 1887, POB Healesville. Other details from his military records from this time:
Age: 31
Height: 5 ' 7 1/4"
Vaccination: Left Arm
Eyes: Blue
Hair: Brown 
Occupation: Agent / Accountant
Address: Both 174 Walker St AND 14 Spring Street, North Sydney, NSW are listed.
Embarkation Record: SS Melusia, from Sydney to Rabaul

1922 JOHN BECKMAN
In record of petition to divorce Maria Gertrude Reidy, NSW


1939 ALBERT JOHN MURRAY BECKMAN / A.N.FAWCUS
In a stat dec and letters to the Base Records Officer, requesting a copy of his military records. The 'Murray' appears to have come from Gertrude's mother. In this stat dec he lists his N.O.K. as being Maria Christina Beckman (his mother) but then has crossed out 'Christina' and above writes 'Gertrude'. The N.O.K. was next to the D.O.B. so I suspect he initially thought it was asking for parental information and then made a correction when he realised his mistake. He requested the records to be sent to the address of A.N. Fawcus, so I suspect he must have been using this name in 1939 also.
Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: EPB on Wednesday 11 August 21 16:20 BST (UK)


1941 ALFRED NOTTINGHAM FAWCUS
In military enlistment for WWII, Service #N273156
DOB as May 1887, POB Healesville.
Lists date of marriage as 28th January 1914
Anna Fawcus is named as his wife - this is my grandmother Ray/Rae Elizabeth 'Anna' Fawcus née Gearey. However Anna was born in 1913, and did not officially marry my grandfather until 1948. The above marriage date matches *exactly* with the marriage record of John Beckman and Gertrude Reidy, however.
Other details:
D.O.B.: 22 May 1887 (differing date to John Beckman, who gave at least 2 DOB, but same year.)
P.O.B. Healesville
Age: 53 1/2
Hair: Medium
Eyes: Blue
Vaccination: Left Arm
Occupation: Consulting Incorporated Accountant / Public Accountant
Address: Jae Flats, Roslyn Avenue, Elizabeth Bay NSW (1941)
Later address listed as 40 Bayswater Road, Darlinghurst NSW (1948)
Previous Military Experience: Rabaul  A.N/ & M.E.F. (Rabaul was British military territory in now Papua New Guinea, during WWI, and the location where John Beckman served in WWI as per his military records.)
Education: Grenville? College Ballarat, Fellow of Corporation of Consulting Accountants
 
Clearly A.N.Fawcus is John Beckman AKA Albert John Murray Beckman, based on their military papers alone, let alone all the other evidence!
 
1943 ALFRED NOTTINGHAM FAWCUS
In a newspaper birth announcement of my mother's birth, where my grandmother is listed as mother. I have this somewhere but need to locate it. I found this many years ago.

1948: ALFRED NOTTINGHAM FAWCUS
In Victorian marriage record to my grandmother Rae Elizabeth Gearey (Who went by the nickname 'Anna' as she disliked the name Rae) 1128/1948

1964: ALFRED NOTTINGHAM FAWCUS
Ballarat death record 10058. Circa 1887-1964, parents listed as being Robert Flinn Forcus and Marie Christina Petersen. By this time Alfred had returned to the Ballarat area. Most of his family would have passed away by this time. Until her death in 1951 his half sister Eda Beckman was in touch with him and knew him by the name Alfred Fawcus, and my mother remembers her from her childhood as her Aunt Eda Beckman.
Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: EPB on Wednesday 11 August 21 16:22 BST (UK)
To answer the above question, John's parentage information originally came to me from the OP, so I'm not sure where they found that information. Hopefully one day they find this post again!

Robert Flinn / Flynn Forcus / Fawcus married Sarah Nelson in 1896, not long after his split with Marie Petersen, and Robert and Sarah remained married til death circa 1945. Their only offspring, Hugh Robert Nelson Forcus, also died around this time, in WWII service. Robert and his son Hugh (my mother's half-uncle) worked in horse-breeding/selling and records of them can be found around Australia, especially between VIC and WA.

Robert's origins are another mystery to uncover, I have his birth details but his father seems to have some conflicting marriage records in various family trees, so I haven't yet established which is correct - but there is enough to uncover about Alfred/John/Albert/Charles? for now!
Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: EPB on Wednesday 11 August 21 17:00 BST (UK)
Current questions burning my curiosity:

What happened to my GF between 1922 (when he divorced Maria Gertrude Reidy as 'John Murray Beckman' and 1939 (when he wrote to Canberra as 'Albert John Murray Beckman' and was likely also already using the name 'Alfred Nottingham Fawcus')? What name/s was he using between 1922-1939?

When did he start using aliases and why? (If you don't count 'Albert Petersen' as his original alias, 'Alfred Nottingham Fawcus' being his original birthname, it's likely his mother didn't confide this to him until later?)

Are there any other marriages and/or offspring to uncover?

Was David Murray Beckman the son of John Beckman, or Albert Cotton?

Why did Albert Cotton go by the nickname 'Alf'? Or is the family tree that lists that incorrect?

When/where did my GF use the alias Charles (as mentioned by OP)?

Are there any other living descendants of my GF? (Via sons John Murray Beckman, Albert Petersen Murray Beckman, or any other as yet unknown / unconfirmed children?)
Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: sparrett on Wednesday 11 August 21 23:49 BST (UK)
Hi EPB
About the death notice of Gertrude.
I viewed it at Google archives dated Dec 22 1967. Sydney Morning  Herald.
I have typed the content and PMed it to you as I am concerned for the privacy of those listed.

If you would like a the snip image in original form, I will need your email address as PM system does not support images.

Sue 
Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 12 August 21 01:38 BST (UK)
Thank you Sue!
Yes I would love to see her death notice. On the electoral roll do *all* her children go by Cotton other than Jack? Even her second son Albert Peterson Murray-Beckman? I know he enlisted under the Murray-Beckman name, as did David.
 

 David Edward died in 2007 using the name BECKMAN.
He had used both COTTON and BECKMAN and appears on the electoral Roll as both. Born around 1930.

I had mistaken one Robert COTTON as the Bert mentioned in Gertrude’s death notice. This was an error and the correct Bert is indeed obviously Albert Peterson MURRAY-BECKMAN.

I see Albert's  first  enrolment to vote in 1943 and I do not see  him using the COTTON name.
Died WA 1965 (#2171) aged 48.

Sue
Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 12 August 21 06:06 BST (UK)
Current questions burning my curiosity:

What happened to my GF between 1922 (when he divorced Maria Gertrude Reidy as 'John Murray Beckman' and 1939 (when he wrote to Canberra as 'Albert John Murray Beckman' and was likely also already using the name 'Alfred Nottingham Fawcus')? What name/s was he using between 1922-1939?




It is likely he is the man in question here.  Given he claims a background in accounting and book-keeping.

Forgery charges in Ryde NSW in 1921. John Beckman
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/213210640

He then went to Qld where the trouble continued.

Theft 1923 in Brisbane.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/184695485
Plus forgery
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/177112756


Drunk driving Brisbane 1926
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/220650144

A range of charges in QLD.  Institutionalised for treatment 1930
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/21617110

Local Brisbane magistrate tried to address his lack of self control re alcohol with a newspaper notice. 1929
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/178909677


Back in NSW by 1936.
Killed a pedestrian while driving a lorry
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/246968082

Search Trove
https://trove.nla.gov.au/

Sue
Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 12 August 21 08:29 BST (UK)
This link to the archived index to mentally incapacitated persons. QLD Archives
https://www.archivessearch.qld.gov.au/items/ITM445677



https://www.archivessearch.qld.gov.au/items/ITM610793?digrep=DR19122

From QLD archives Photographic record, description and criminal history of John Murray, also known as John Beckman, John Murray Beckman, or John Ryder, 10 July 1923

With yet another alias I’m sorry to say! And full of lies about his persona ::)
(might need to scroll down or use ctrl F Beckman)
Sue
Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: EPB on Thursday 12 August 21 12:46 BST (UK)
Thanks for this!

DR19281
Title
Photographic record, description and criminal history of John Murray, also known as John Beckman, John Murray Beckman, or John Ryder, 10 July 1923

Looks like it could be our guy.

Did you notice there were TWO other alias-users going by the name John Murray? Seems to have been a popular name among identity thiefs for some reason!  ;D

I triple checked and none of them are remotely possible but DR19281 looks likely to be him I think? He bears a resemblance to pictures of ANF/JMB's mother Marie Christina Petersen and son John/Jack Murray-Beckman that I have.

It mentions I can find Previous convictions under these records:

NSW 85-290
94-242 Vic 19892

Any idea where I might locate those?

Okay will look into the other links including the mental incapacitation one now! Thanks!

This link to the archived index to mentally incapacitated persons. QLD Archives
https://www.archivessearch.qld.gov.au/items/ITM445677



https://www.archivessearch.qld.gov.au/items/ITM610793?digrep=DR19122

From QLD archives Photographic record, description and criminal history of John Murray, also known as John Beckman, John Murray Beckman, or John Ryder, 10 July 1923

With yet another alias I’m sorry to say! And full of lies about his persona ::)
(might need to scroll down or use ctrl F Beckman)
Sue

Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: sparrett on Friday 13 August 21 04:02 BST (UK)
This link is the NSW Archives record for John BECKMAN.
However the file will not download properly for me.
Just a blurry expansion of the thumbnail.  Cannot be viewed.

https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/primo-explore/fulldisplay?docid=INDEX2080554&context=L&vid=61SRA&lang=en_US&search_scope=Everything&adaptor=Local%20Search%20Engine&tab=default_tab&query=any,contains,john%20beckman&offset=0


You might have more luck.

The trove news items aligin with the Qld  prison record. 1923
Sue
Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: EPB on Friday 13 August 21 06:38 BST (UK)
Thank you Sue! A couple of the Trove news items aren't him but the majority are. The ones that are not him are the driving-related reports. These I think are not my grandfather:

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/220650144
Daily Mail Brisbane 1926
The reckless driver in Brisbane named John Beckman, aged 29 in 1926, a Manager, is unlikely to be the JMB I'm looking for (too young, and also unlikely to have been employed in Brisbane at this time in a managerial position with his established local reputation!). Our JB was already well known to the police so they wouldn't have mistaken him to be that young. This is likely another John Beckman, born in Queensland circa 1900, likely manager at Beckman Brothers, which I believe was a plumbing business in Brisbane in the 1920s.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/246968082
NSW 1936
The lorry driver who accidentally killed a pedestrian would have been my grandfather's son, of the exact same name, who would have been around 21 at the time and owned a lorry driving business in NSW in the 1930s before enlisting in WWII. He notes on his enlistment papers that he has had many traffic infringements.

All the other reports are likely to be him though! I have the same issue with the photo link below - will try contacting NSW archives to request a better resolution version, but comparing it to his QLD photo, it looks to be him (same head shape, same ears) with a moustache.


This link is the NSW Archives record for John BECKMAN.
However the file will not download properly for me.
Just a blurry expansion of the thumbnail.  Cannot be viewed.

https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/primo-explore/fulldisplay?docid=INDEX2080554&context=L&vid=61SRA&lang=en_US&search_scope=Everything&adaptor=Local%20Search%20Engine&tab=default_tab&query=any,contains,john%20beckman&offset=0


You might have more luck.

The trove news items aligin with the Qld  prison record. 1923
Sue
Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: sparrett on Friday 13 August 21 07:07 BST (UK)
Using his name of Albert Petersen BECKMAN, he enrolled to vote in WA in 1910
At Southern Cross Coolgardie, he was an accountant at the bank there

Before he departed Ballarat for this destination, he placed a notice in the local paper about it.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/210352962
Leaving Ballarat for the West.

He resigned the bank position in 1909 and took a seat on southern Cross shire council
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/33298273


There are other Trove mentions of him there.

 Sue

Prior to the WA move, he was an agent at Kings in Ballarat in 1904
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/208877671

 

Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 14 August 21 05:22 BST (UK)
The last sighting I can make of the man in Western Aust is the Post Office Directory of 1911.

BECKMAN, A P Com. Agent. Southern Cross. WA

There is not an entry for that name in 1912.

Sue
Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: sparrett on Wednesday 18 August 21 08:30 BST (UK)
I cant remember whether I sent death notice of David.??
Cleaning up my notes ;D
Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: EPB on Wednesday 18 August 21 10:09 BST (UK)
I don't believe so, no! I'd love to see it  :)

Thank you so much.

Re: notes, tell me about it! I have so many links and notes to follow up on, how on earth to find the time?! It's great though, and hopefully I can find some living relatives on this side.



I cant remember whether I sent death notice of David.??
Cleaning up my notes ;D
Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: sparrett on Wednesday 18 August 21 10:59 BST (UK)
I will let send the death notice in the morning then let  the notes go.
Seems you are up to where you want to be at this point.
My computer gets clogged ::)
Sue
Title: Re: John BECKMAN Death
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 19 August 21 01:02 BST (UK)
Hi EPB,
Here is the funeral/death notice for David
Sue