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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Norfolk => Topic started by: Rochdalian on Saturday 16 April 11 03:09 BST (UK)
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Hi
I am trying to place Thomas into a family :) I first come across him in in the 1841 census living with Sarah Bowles (possibly Ethelinda Sarah Rainford Cookson), married age 50, and Judith (later known as Sarah) Bowles aged 10 her daughter and a Jaen male aged 6. Due to the limitations of the 1841 census I don't know the relationship between Sarah and Thomas - she could be his mother or auntie?. I know that Judith/Sarah is Sarah's daughter as Sarah is living with her and her husband Christopher Nelson in 1851. I found a Thomas, a carpenter, on the 1851 census as a 'visitor' in the household of the Grand family in Norwich. However I also found a Thomas, of the right age and birthplace, as a transported convict to VDL in 1842/3. On his indent he states his father is Edmund of Yarmouth and his mother Sarah - I can't make out the rest. After his certificate of freedom in 1850 Thomas took ship from Launceston to Calcutta. In 1853 a Thomas Rainford Day Bowles turns up in Geelong getting married, I have not been able to find an arrival into Australia. Also Judith/Sarah and Christopher migrated to Victoria, still looking for their arrival also.
I am trying to find if Thomas and Judith/Sarah were siblings and if the transported Thomas made it back to Australia and added a few names. What makes me think there is a connection is that the names 'Rainford' & 'Day' crop up in mentions of both families.
Sorry to make it so long and I'm hoping some one can help please
Cheers
Bob
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Hello Bob,
I've searched for Thomas under every surname possible - Bowles, Rainford, Cookson, Day, and come up with nothing I'm afraid. I wondered, as I'm sure you have, whether Thomas was born before his mother married.
You've obviously seen the marriage of Sarah Rainford/Cookson to Edmund Bowles, at Lakenham, just outside Norwich. The witnesses don't give any clues either.
I wonder if you have seen this - the baptism of Edmund Bowles by Edmund and Sarah (Rainford) - http://www.rootschat.com/links/0csf/
And this - baptism of Judith - http://www.rootschat.com/links/0csg/
I guess all it proves is that Judith's father was an Edmund Bowles, and they moved around a lot!
Yorkslass
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Thanks Yorkslass for your searching and hints :) The two, possibly three, Thomas' that I have identified as possibles were all born in the vacinity of 1825/6 so yes he certainly was born before the marriage as was a John Bowles that I have just come across as being born c1824 of Edmund & Sarah. I'm not really sure about him but various trees and a DNA project have him as a son. That project has Judith but not Thomas or Edmund, so the Thomas living with Sarah in 1841 may not be her son but her nephew!! ??? Aaaahhhhhh
Hadn't seen the two baptisms you sent as I'm still coming to grips with the new family search site :-[ I must work on that, is there an easier way to search than just opening page after page? ;)
Cheers
Bob
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Yes, it's very complicated isn't it! I did see those DNA projects - fascinating!
I thought perhaps with Thomas indicating his father was Edmund was a good sign you'd got the right Thomas - who was the transported convict. He may have lived with Edmund, Sarah, Judith and Jaen, and never been told he if had a different father.
I had a quick look at the online newspaper site, and found an entry in the Bury & Norwich Post, of 4 January 1843 - "Yarmouth Sessions" - "Thomas Bowles, aged 16, found guilty of breaking into the shop of Wm Beevor and stealing 2s 10d in money, was sentenced to be transported for seven years, with a view to his being recommended to the Reformatory"
Unfortunately, it doesn't say which Reformatory. Shame, cause those records would help a lot, I expect.
As to the registers, I'm afraid there is no other way, as they haven't been indexed - as a good friend of mine says, "It's just guess and go." What I do, is if I find a "right" baptism, I look forwards and backwards to see if there are any more in that parish.
Here's another one for you - this one is a bit "odd" as it says the father is a traveller - but it certainly looks like another child for Sarah and Edmund - this time Sarah is shown as "Sarah Athelinda", baptised 25 May 1834 at St Mary Coslany, Norwich - http://www.rootschat.com/links/0csr/
I'll have another look tomorrow - Bowles is a name that could be mis-transcribed isn't it?
Best wishes,
Yorkslass
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Ah yes it is indeed complicated. Our ancestors played fast and loose with their names didn't they!?
Yes that's Thomas the transported you found in the paper. Is the online newspapre site one that anyone can look at for nothing? ;)
Looks like I'd better start 'guessing & going' through the records! Thanks for the latest one as well. Do you think the 'traveller' meant the same in 1834 as it does now ie. gypsy?
Thanks for continuing to look.
Cheers
Bob
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Hello again,
The newspapers I searched are free to view, but online through my local library, here in the UK.
I would have thought traveller meant the same then as it does now.
I did notice on the 1851 census, that Sarah (living with her daughter and son in law) is down as married, whereas in 1861, where she's living with her son John and his family, she says Widow. So Edmund must have died between then. I've looked for a death, but can't find one.
I've looked at your other post - and it looks as though Thomas Bowles was indeed Edmund and Sarah's son, doesn't it?
But of course, more questions to find the answers to!
Yorkslass
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Hi Yorkslass
Yes Edmund is a worry, however I have found an Edmund Bowles being transported to VDL in 1844. He came from Norwich and he states that he has a wife Sarah and two kids. Only thing that is not quite right is the age he gave at conviction 33 which makes him born about 1811. Of course we do know that they fibbed a bit about their ages on occasion. I'll look into him a bit more.
Bob
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Hi
I have just found your message asking about The Bowles family Norwich,My husband is Edmund and Ethelinda Bowles Great Great Grandson his Grandmother was Ethelinda Bowles the Daughter of John Bowles and Hannah Mace the son of Edmund and Ethelinda.
If you would like to E-mail me at (*) i do have more information.
Best wishes Gill.
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Thanks Gill, email on the way
Bob
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I too am descended from Edmund & Ethelinda married in Lakenham, via their son John. I believe John might be the "Jaen" in the 1841 census. Its my father who did the DNA test as we had come to a complete standstill - well documented back to John Bowles (although I haven't yet found any record of his birth) but then Edmund is a real mystery. Are there any male Bowles descendants of Thomas who could do the test too?
I've found the information about Thomas fascinating. Where should I look to see the transportation details? I've also been trying to trace Ethelinda too as the Rainford Cookson should make her easy to trace but I've found nothing, but then she was born in "America" c 1800 so there isn't much help there.
Edmund Bowles seems to be a rare combination of names - there is the convict who was transported, who was born in Great Yarmouth, but no way of telling for certain if this is the same Edmund who married Ethelinda in 1827. The ages are all a bit fuzzy.
I hope this isn't repeating too much but thought it would be helpful to summarise all the information I have about this family in date order!
Will have to do in bits as there is a character limit.
Birth of Edmund Bowles in Great Yarmouth
Born March 30th, baptised April 7th 1809 in Great Yarmouth son of Thomas and Mary, nee Fleming. (I would like to work out if they had other male children, and any Bowles descendants, but it takes an age working through the images of the parish registers)
Marriage of Edmund & Ethelinda
5th June 1827 in Lakenham, Norwich - all the banns were read in the church and they were both given as single and residents of the parish. They were both literate, signing their names in the parish register.
Parish of St Michael at Thorn, Norwich
The Parish records were all destroyed during the second world war, however one dedicated group has reconstructed some of the baptismal records from the bishops transcripts: There is the following record:
Entry 977 18/5/1828 Edmund Bowles son of Edmund Bowles Weaver and Sarah Rainford, born 12/5/1828.
This looks like an elder brother who died, with John being born between Judith and Martha - age given in 1841 was only 8 I think (my subscription to the censuses has expired, so will have to go to the library to check).
Parish of St Gregory, Norwich baptisms 1813- 1890
Baptised Sep 16th, born Sep 9th 1830, Judith, daughter of Edmund Bowles and Ethelinda Sarah (Rainford), late Cookson.
This gives Edmund's profession as weaver. The date ties in perfectly with the Judith's age of 10 in the 1841 census as this was in June 1841. On the census / marriage records she was sometimes Judith Sarah and other times Sarah Judith. She later married Christopher Ignatius Nelson (her mother Ethelinda Sarah Bowles was living with them in 1851) and moved to Australia before 1861, and died aged 40 in 1870 in Australia.
Parish of St Mary Coslany, Norwich Baptisms
May 25th 1834 (Born 14th) Sarah Martha, daughter of Edmund and Sarah Ethelinda Bowles of this parish. Here Edmund's profession is given as "traveller". This child isn't shown in the 1841 census - could have died, but I couldn't find a burial record in that parish.
Both daughters have been given their mother's name Sarah as one of their names.
1841 Census
Sarah Bowles , married, (40) is living with Thomas (15) Judith(10) and Jaen (6) and is shown as being a confectioner of foreign birth. I haven't been able to find Edmund anywhere. The only other trace of Thomas I found was the 1851 visitor mentioned earlier, a marriage in Norwich in 1845 and a death in 1846 (although I haven't purchased the certificates so don't know if these are relevant)
1844 Edmund is transported to Tasmania.
He is described as being born in Great Yarmouth, has a wife called Sarah and 2 children (do not know if that means 2 non-adult children - presumably Judith and Jaen/John). he can also read and write.
tbc
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continuing:
1849 Marriage of Judith
Judith Sarah Bowles marries Christopher Ignatius Nelson in Norwich. Her father is given as Edmund, a weaver and one of the witnesses is Ethelinda Sarah Bowles.
1851 census
Christopher Nelson, a musician born in Westminster aged 24 and his wife Sarah aged 20 are living in the household of Sarah Bowles a married woman aged 51 (whose place of birth is not known) in Norwich.
I have not been able to find John Bowles in this census.
2nd July 1855
John Bowles, son of Edmund a Weaver, marries Hannah Elizabeth Mace, both of St Paul's, Norwich. John is a sailor "of full age" - possibly the reason he was not in the 1851 census if at sea.
They have various children from Edmund, born 1856, to Samuel, born 1871, including also Ethelinda, Martha, Christopher and George.
1858 Tasmania : marriage of Edmund Bowles to Ann Robertson a widow aged 40. It seems unlikely that they had any children
1861 Census 7th April
Ethelinda Sarah Bowles, a widow, aged is living in the household of her son John in Norwich. Her birthplace is now given as America. Edmund is not in fact dead (see next entry) - although he soon will be.
1861 12th April Death of Edmund Bowles
Death Place: Bothwell Dist., Tasmania, Australia Age:50 Occupation: Confectioner Married to Ann Bowles
It is interesting, but not at all conclusive, that Edmund is described as a confectioner, as this was the profession (Ethelinda) Sarah gave in the 1841 census
I know this doesn't relate directly to Thomas but hope it is of interest anyway. Maybe between us all we can sort this family out. Of course if we do there is then the challenge of tracing further back...!
Best wishes
Sally
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Hi Sally,
An answer to at least one of your questions;
BOWLES Baptisms St Nicholas, Great Yarmouth, Parents THOMAS/MARY
nee Fleming;
SARAH, 02 March 1805
SAMUEL, 16 June 1806
EDMUND, 07 April 1809
Just under, St Nicholas, Yarmouth (no Great);
JONATHAN, 09 March 1803
Source www.freereg.org.uk
Trish :)
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Trish
So much so quickly! :)
Many thanks - I hadn't used Free Reg and was slogging through the images of the parish registers on the IGI site!
Sally
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Do you have when Thomas and Mary Flemming Married??
It may be much earlier than 1800's.
Trish :)
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Hi All
As the bloke who started all thisa I should say I'm not related to any Bowles - sorry Sally. It is my partner who's sister-in-law is a descendent of Judith & Christopher Nelson.
Transportation records are at the following, for Edmund:
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?detail=1&type=C&id=6248
To save you 'browsing' his Indent is image 92-93, his description is image 134 and his conduct record image 35.
For Thomas it is http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?detail=1&type=C&id=6264
Sorry I didn't take note of the image numbers for him :-[
As I may have alluded to in my initial post Thomas left Launcestion bound for Calcutta in 1850 and a fellow calling himself Thomas Rainford Day Bowles turns up in Geelong in 1853 and marrys Winifred Carthy. We have no idea where the name 'Day' comes from, anybody any ideas? Interestingly when Judith died she is referred to as Day Judith Nelson, I think I have it the right way round but anyway the Day is in there??
More tomorrow I'm off to my bed as it's nearly midnight here in OZ.
Bob
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From this Site I found these Burials;
http://www.genealogy.doun.org/transcriptions/index.php
SARAH Bowles, 1793, Infant, Daug of Thomas and Mary nee Fleming
SAMUEL Bowles, 1797, infant, Son of Thomas and Mary late Fleming
Hi Bob,
Goodnight, I'm in Sydney :)
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Everything points to this Marriage;
Thomas BOWLES, Bachelor
Mary HEMMAN, Spinster
Both of Great Yarmouth
28 August 1784, St Nicholas, Great Yarmouth, Norfolk
Witnesses, William HEMMAN, Mary GOODINGS
Source FreeREG
IGI has a Submitted Entry as Mary FLEMMAN
Someone on Anc. has these Children for Thomas/Mary;
MARY 1787
EDWARD 1789-1849
THOMAS 1791
SARAH 1792-1793
SAMUEL 1794-1797
WILLIAM 1799
JONATHAN 1803-1840
SARAH 1805
SAMUEL 1806
EDMUND 1809
Sorry to take over your posting Bob.
Trish :)
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I have found: Thomas Bowles m Maria Flemman 28 Aug 1784 St Nicholas Gt Yarmouth
but I am finding it hard to work out who married whom in these old parish registers - especially when there are several Thomas Bowles' around - I have found several born in great Yarmouth that could be the one who married here :
Thomas son of Edward & Elizabeth bapt 28 Nov 1760 who would have been 24 ish
Thomas, son of John and Lydia Bowles, baptised 17 Aug 1763 who would have been 21+
Thomas, son of Thomas and Mary baptised in 1767 who was 17+ (never sure with these baptism dates how old they actually are!)
I have been working forward through the registers from 1784 and found the following children for Thomas & Mary Bowles so far:
Elizabeth born 26th, bapt 28th Sept 1785
Mary, born 21st, bapt 23rd Feb 1787
Edward born Feb 24th bapt Jun 27th 1789
Thomas born March 13th and bapt mar 28th 1791
Sarah born March 3rd bapt July 7th 1793
Also found Mary Flemming D of William and Sarah bapt 3rd Feb 1764 - which would mean she was 20 when she married and 45 when Edmund was born.
Actually just looking at these together I would guess that the Thomas is the on of Edward and Elizabeth and they named their first born son and daughter for the paternal grandparents, second born for themselves and 3rd born for maternal grandparents (which would seenm to predict the next son a William between 1793 and 1799's jonathan!
Thanks for your help - its helped spark me back into action again
Sally
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Bob
A message for you in the morning! (I'm in the UK and it's an unseasonably sunny April day here)
So Judith & Christopher did have children! I hadn't been able to trace any. Well I'd love to find out more about them if possible. I think Gill has been in touch with you - her husband and I are both descended from John, Judith's brother.
The only reference I found to Judith's death was the following :
Saturday 17th September 1870 : The Argus, Melbourne Victoria
NELSON—On the 16th inst at her residence, No 3 Stewart-street Melbourne, Sarah J wife of Mr Christopher Ignatius Nelson aged 40 years.
Sally
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Trish
I think there is a lot of confirmation between these sources of information. Thank you again for your help - I hadn't seen your last 2 posts as I was in the middle of writing mine.
Best regards
Sally
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I agree with your conclusions Sally :)
And I was off watching TV so didnt see your post til now.
Trish :)
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Thanks Sally and Trish for joining in and taking over 8) ;D
I snipped a section from the remarks column in Thomas Bowles convict indent and as I couldn't read all of it I placed it on the Deciphering & Recognition board a few days ago (you may have seen it). Anyway if you haven't this is what those great people on that board came up with:-
F Edmund of Yarmouth
M Sarah 1B 1S Jno
Judy I lived with my Uncle
Thom
I think that puts Thomas the transported one in the frame to be connected to this family.
Bob
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This is what I have on the children of Christopher Nelson & Judith/Sarah Bowles.
Christopher b1857 Melbourne, Victoria
Albert Horatio (would you believe) b1859 Melbourne, Victoria.
m Ada Pendleton 1879 Queensland
d1834 Melbourne, Victoria
Henry b1861 Melbourne, Victoria.
Children of Albert Horatio Nelson & Ada Pendleton
Emily Victoria b1880 Paddington, NSW
Lillian Blanche b1884 Thebarton, South Australia
Albert Henry George b1886 Melbourne, Australia
Ada Francis Anni b1887 Carlton, Victoria
Horace Carlton b1890 Fitzroy, Victoria
Elizabeth Violet Eveline b1893 Fitzroy, Victoria
Dorothy May b1901 Bunyip, Victoria
I think they should have called the last one ADA - Another Damn Accident ;D
I'm afraid the only person we have followed as yet is Albert Horatio then on through his daughter Emily as that is where the relationship lies.
Bob
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Sally, if you haven't already had a look at the Convict records for Thomas his conduct record is image 15 and his indent is image 96-97.
Bob
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Sally, I have looked at the 1841 census for the given age of 'Jaen' and although it's not altogether clear I put it at an 8 which would make him born about 1833.
Bob
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Found this the marriage of Edward Bowles to Elizabeth Edwards 20/11/1755 Gt Yarmouth. Identified by you Sally as most likely parents of Thomas Bowles.
Bob
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I knew I'd seen reference to the name 'Day' in connection with Judith/Sarah Nelson nee Bowles (as well as Thomas Rainford Day Bowles) and now I've found it again (teach me not to make notes :-[) Anyway on the death registration of Judith & Christopher's son Albert Horatio in 1934 his parents are given as Christopher Nelson & Judith Day Bowles! ;)
Bob
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Hi Bob
Thanks for all the info - I think John - if he is "Jaen" which seems likely - must have been born 1832/1833 - its just from his ages on various later documents give a range between 1828 and 1834! However from the documented birth dates of his other siblings some of these can be ruled out. However as no two of his siblings seem to have been baptised in the same parish I guess its "just" a case of buckling down to go through all the images for all the parishes in that area of Norwich!
However it is clear that Edmund and Ethelinda were both John & Judith's parents, and seems likely that Edmund was the Yarmouth son of Thomas and Mary.Thanks for finding the marriage of Thomas' parents Edward and Elizabeth - but there still isn't the "Day" there. I'm wondering if that, like the Rainford might have come from the maternal side but I've had no success in tracing Ethelinda's family
Regards
Sally
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Another little snippet - Henry Nelson b1861 son of Chris & Judith died in 1862.
Bob
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Bob,
I've been going through the baptism records for St Nicholas Church, Yarmouth 1813 -1816, looking for more Bowles babies and have noticed a couple of "Day" surnames too - although none connected to Bowles that I can see so far. There must be some connection though.
Sally
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Hello all descendants of Thomas Bowles!
I am writing a book on Great Yarmouth Borough Gaol and in particular on the work of the prison visitor Sarah Martin with inmates. A memoir of Sarah's life was published after her death and this contains extracts from her journals. One of these includes her account of a conversation with Thomas, following his release from gaol (pp. 130-2). You can read the account here:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Wmo4AAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=sarah+martin+prison+visitor&hl=en&ei=ngzWTarfMJOxhQfCq_nVBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
Here is an extract from a paper (not yet published) where I talk about Thomas. You will see that Sarah was very strict but she was trying hard to set Thomas on the straight and narrow!
Thomas Bowles was imprisoned in 1841, aged 14, for breaking a window with intent to steal. Martin judged him a “clever boy – and both diligent and obedient.” While regretting that he had a “bad father” and a mother “in want and distress,” she hoped that with “judicious guidance he might become a better character.” But the boy found Martin’s strict code of conduct hard to follow. His elder sister, married to a shipwright, took Bowles in while he tried to support himself by selling sticks. To enable him attend Sunday school, Martin ordered a twopenny loaf for the sabbath and directed him to a school, promising him a blue slop if he attended regularly. Bowles called on Martin to say he had work as a bricklayer’s laborer and had given four shillings to his sister for his lodgings, washing, food and clothes. He appeared to be taking Martin’s advice to heart, saying he had taken his cousin to Sunday school and declined an invitation to go fishing on the sabbath, advising a former cellmate to attend school too. However, when Martin called on Bowles, she found him playing marbles. This prompted a lecture. If he wished to play, he should drive a hoop or throw a ball; marbles was a form of gaming that would lead to worse. Despite his good intentions, Martin feared the boy’s bad temper which was “remarkably violent,” and his sister worried he would provoke her husband. The teacher was relieved to hear Bowles had won a berth on a fishing ship and, after he had proved himself honest, allowed him to choose a pair of canvas trousers. But he was imprisoned again for leaving his master and, in 1842, sentenced to transportation for seven years for housebreaking. Apparently, Bowles had failed to inculcate the virtue of familial reciprocity emphasized by Martin and his sister. As he told the convict authorities, he had been convicted of stealing £50 pounds from his uncle; at the time of the offence he was living with an uncle.
Helen
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More on Thomas Bowles and Sarah Martin:
Thomas was transported for housebreaking. The Gaol Register records that he broke into the house of William Beevor and stole £50. In his Convict Indent, Thomas gives the name William Bevis but also says William was his uncle. In 1841 a William Beevor, baker, lived on Gaol Street in Great Yarmouth. Do any of you know if this man was related to Thomas.
Thomas also states in his Convict Indent that he was living with another uncle, Thomas. This may be the uncle mentioned in his conversation with Sarah Martin. Does this fit any of your records, and can anyone confirm who Thomas's aunt was?
This link takes you to the convict records on Thomas:
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?detail=1&type=C&id=6264
Helen
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Another possible link to Thomas Bowles and Edmund Bowles.
John Bowles was transported to Van Diemen's Land per Blenheim in 1837. He was sentenced to Life 6 Feb 1837 at Great Yarmouth for horsestealing. He had been working as a boatman. He was about 20.
I've not yet found any connection with Thomas and Edmund but does anyone know of a link?
I'm very keen to find out about the Bowles family and what effects the imprisonment and transportation of Thomas and Edmund may have had on their families and descendants in England and Australia. I am also looking for evidence of whether they continued to get in trouble after their sentence ended, or whether they finally settled down since my book is exploring punishment and rehabilitation in the early nineteenth century.
Best wishes, Helen
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More on Edmund Bowles:
Edmund's Convict Indent states he had been a policeman in Yarmouth for five years. He was committed for 40 days to Yarmouth Gaol 23 Feb 1842 for a debt owed to Thomas Wright. The Gaol Register says he has worked as a policeman. On 3 May 1842 he was remanded on charges of secreting the watch of Thomas Bowles executor but released the same day. His trade was listed as sugar boiler, and he could read and write.
Looks like there was some trouble in the Bowles extended family!
Helen
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Hi Helen
I am the bloke who first started this thread, although it was taken over by a couple of very knowledgeable experts ;) ::) 8)!!!
As you will see from the very start I am trying very hard to connect Thomas the convict, who left Australia's shores bound for Calcutta in 1850, with the Thomas Rainford Day Bowles who turns up in Geelong Victoria three years later. So, an extra mind with fresh eyes working on this would be great. I've been trying to think about the question you raise but without my files I am no good, and I won't be able to put my hands on them for about another 5 weeks as I am in the UK on holiday.
Perhaps one of the other Bowles sleuths has some fresh ideas.
Cheers
Bob