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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: melandjamie on Saturday 23 April 11 05:25 BST (UK)

Title: (COMPLETE)Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: melandjamie on Saturday 23 April 11 05:25 BST (UK)
I'm hoping someone might be able to help me, I'm trying to figure out if this is the relative of mine i've been trying to hunt down.
I've found a newpaper funeral notice for a James Hemphill on the 18th July 1950 of 32 Suffolk St. he seems to have been married to a Clara Hemphill who died in 1947.
I live in Melbourne so i can't just go and have a look to see if there is anything else written on the head stone that might tell us if he's the one we're looking for so i was wondering if anyone knew any other way i could find out.

thanks in advance  :)
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James Hemphill 1950
Post by: majm on Saturday 23 April 11 05:35 BST (UK)
There is the likely d.c. registration INDEXED at NSW BDM online ... showing he was 66 years, reference 15027

A transcript of that cert will give you details of his marriage/s and children  and lots of other family history information that the informant may have provided.  It will also have details of the funeral director and the Revd conducting the service. 

Transcript agents are listed on the NSW resource board here at RChat.  And also on the NSW BDM online website ... 

As you are in Melbourne, while my suggestion doesn't get you the information from any headstone, it does give you an alternative way of finding out if there is a connection. 

Clara Hemphill's NSW d.c. is indexed online at reference 7062
showing Clara Edith was recorded with parents James Cornelius and Alice and that her death was registered at Paddington. 

Edit to add, electoral rolls from 1930 through to 1943 have a James Hempill, tobacco worker at 32 Suffolk St Paddington and also a Clara Hempill at same address.  James was still at that address on 1949 roll. 
Cheers,  JM

Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James Hemphill 1950
Post by: cando on Saturday 23 April 11 05:57 BST (UK)
I can't help you with a possible MI at Randwick Cemetery.  

James' death registration states he was 66 years old ie born c1884.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/Index/IndexingOrder.cgi/search?event=births

15027/1950    
HEMPHILL    James   66 years Sydney
District Sydney

This could be his birth
1420/1884
HEMPHILL James
Father John Mother Jane
District Sydney

Possible marriage
5724/1924    
HEMPHILL    James   
CROWLEY    Clara    
District Petersham

There is also notice on TROVE stating that James HEMPHILL, retired tobacco worker, died intestate.    

According to the electoral rolls 1930 - 1943 Clara and James lived at 32 Suffolk Street, Paddington.  That is the address given for James' residence in 1950 in his funeral notice.

Do you have other information that this is James' wife's death?  She was Clara only [no 2nd given name] on both her marriage and the electoral rolls.

Death
7062/1947    
HEMPHILL    Clara Edith
Father James Cornelius  Mother Alice
District Paddington

You can purchase transcriptions of certificates in NSW for $18.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/howToTraceYouFamTree.htm#TranscriptionAgent

Information on certificates in NSW
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/familyHistoryCertificates.htm

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: cando on Saturday 23 April 11 06:03 BST (UK)
Birth of the above Clara E with mistranscribed surname.

6356/1887
CROWLY Clara E Crowly
Father James  Mother Alice
District Petersham

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: Billyblue on Saturday 23 April 11 06:12 BST (UK)
Mel
You could have a look at this site
http://www.randwick.nsw.gov.au/A_sense_of_community/Library/Local_studies/Family_history/Cemetery_records/index.aspx
and maybe contact Randwick Council to see if there is a headstone?
Or see if AIGS or GSV have the Warwick Adams book of transcripts of M.I.s.  If you're not a member of either  ???   ???  then they probably have a research service which could give you the info in exchange for a nominal amount.

If neither of those work, PM me before Friday and I'll have a look at QFHS library (have to go to a meeting there Friday morning). We have 2 Adams books plus one of St. Jude's cemetery Randwick, I see.

Dawn M
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: cando on Saturday 23 April 11 06:12 BST (UK)
The Randwick Library may be able to help you with a transcription if there is a headstone.

http://www.randwick.nsw.gov.au/A_sense_of_community/Library/Local_studies/Family_history/Cemetery_records/index.aspx

Adams, Warwick: Randwick General Cemetery: burials from 10 September 1874 to 22 November 1983
Adams, Warwick: Randwick General Cemetery: transcripts of monumental inscriptions
Cripps, Ian Thomas: A guide to the historical significance of Randwick General Cemetery
Randwick Cemetery registers on microfiche 1874-1983

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: shakel on Saturday 23 April 11 06:18 BST (UK)
Hi.....
If you know where the grave is located in Randwick Cemetery, I am happy to photograph it for you and send it on - I live close by so it is no trouble......
Shakel
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: melandjamie on Saturday 23 April 11 06:33 BST (UK)
wow!!!! thank you so much everyone boy have i got a lot of work to do lol

This could be his birth
1420/1884
HEMPHILL James
Father John Mother Jane
District Sydney

This i know for sure i the man i'm after,it's after he gets sent to the Sobroan i loose him  :)
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: melandjamie on Saturday 23 April 11 06:36 BST (UK)
Hi.....
If you know where the grave is located in Randwick Cemetery, I am happy to photograph it for you and send it on - I live close by so it is no trouble......
Shakel

that would be fantastic, if i can find out were it is i will let you know  :)
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: melandjamie on Saturday 23 April 11 06:39 BST (UK)
Mel
You could have a look at this site
http://www.randwick.nsw.gov.au/A_sense_of_community/Library/Local_studies/Family_history/Cemetery_records/index.aspx
and maybe contact Randwick Council to see if there is a headstone?
Or see if AIGS or GSV have the Warwick Adams book of transcripts of M.I.s.  If you're not a member of either  ???   ???  then they probably have a research service which could give you the info in exchange for a nominal amount.

If neither of those work, PM me before Friday and I'll have a look at QFHS library (have to go to a meeting there Friday morning). We have 2 Adams books plus one of St. Jude's cemetery Randwick, I see.

Dawn M

thank you, i'll look into all those things and get back to you if i have no luck
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: shakel on Saturday 23 April 11 06:42 BST (UK)
I'll wait to hear from you - sorry i can't help with the actual location  :'(
Shakel
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: majm on Saturday 23 April 11 06:44 BST (UK)
There's James Hemphill aged 4 and John Hemphill aged 7 both placed into care on 27 March 1889 ... as per an online index at NSW State Records Office ...  who offer a copy service for that set of records ...  I would expect these to show the names of the lads parents and if the lads were brothers ... (both entered on same day, so likely)...  That set of records should also show when each was discharged and further details, perhaps most of the details would be on the older lads entry rather than on James own entry.  

Cheers,  JM

Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: majm on Saturday 23 April 11 06:49 BST (UK)
NSW State Records online index also has mention of Jane Hempill and James Hempill under the heading of Divorce Index .... this is from 1894 .... it may be a Divorce, but it may also be Jane seeking some maintenance order from the courts and the courts directing James to provide etc ....  the 1880's and into the 1890's saw an economic depression/recession in NSW ... it may be that the two lads were entered into care because of circumstances brought on by that economic downturn. 

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: melandjamie on Saturday 23 April 11 06:55 BST (UK)
There's James Hemphill aged 4 and John Hemphill aged 7 both placed into care on 27 March 1889 ... as per an online index at NSW State Records Office ...  who offer a copy service for that set of records ...  I would expect these to show the names of the lads parents and if the lads were brothers ... (both entered on same day, so likely)...  That set of records should also show when each was discharged and further details, perhaps most of the details would be on the older lads entry rather than on James own entry.  

Cheers,  JM



thank you
yes these are my boys also  :) the 2 boys were put into care when their mother went back to Ireland (not sure why) and then their father got them out a few months later
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: melandjamie on Saturday 23 April 11 06:59 BST (UK)
NSW State Records online index also has mention of Jane Hempill and James Hempill under the heading of Divorce Index .... this is from 1894 .... it may be a Divorce, but it may also be Jane seeking some maintenance order from the courts and the courts directing James to provide etc ....  the 1880's and into the 1890's saw an economic depression/recession in NSW ... it may be that the two lads were entered into care because of circumstances brought on by that economic downturn. 

Cheers,  JM

thanks  :)
this was the parents of the boys (they had 10 children in total) they did end up getting divorce and from what we can tell off one of the boys entrance forms  to the Soboarn (the mother was running a brothel lol)his father went back to Ireland but i can't find any record of him leaving or what happened to him
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: majm on Saturday 23 April 11 07:08 BST (UK)
I think their mum must have returned to NSW by 1894 .... Do you have copy of that file as it should note the children, ages etc and any maintenance payments etc...

I note there's an index showing a Jane HEMPHILL marrying a Henry GOODWIN in 1903 registered Sydney ref 7856.    Perhaps a transcript of that m.c. would should if Jane was spinster or if a second marriage...  

Have you located the d.c. for the lads father?  Thinking perhaps that one of the lads was the informant and that the address of the informant was noted....


You write that you lost James at the  Sobroan ....  I am sure there's ways to find him again   http://www.flickr.com/photos/state-records-nsw/5474994706/

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: Billyblue on Saturday 23 April 11 08:31 BST (UK)
Tell me, people, what's the Sobroan?   ???   ???   ???

Dawn M
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: melandjamie on Saturday 23 April 11 08:39 BST (UK)
I think their mum must have returned to NSW by 1894 .... Do you have copy of that file as it should note the children, ages etc and any maintenance payments etc...

I note there's an index showing a Jane HEMPHILL marrying a Henry GOODWIN in 1903 registered Sydney ref 7856.    Perhaps a transcript of that m.c. would should if Jane was spinster or if a second marriage...  

Have you located the d.c. for the lads father?  Thinking perhaps that one of the lads was the informant and that the address of the informant was noted....


You write that you lost James at the  Sobroan ....  I am sure there's ways to find him again   http://www.flickr.com/photos/state-records-nsw/5474994706/

Cheers,  JM

i can't find any reference to her leaving the country i'm just going by what was written on  her other son Samuels entrance forms to the Sobroan (they we're naughty boys lol)it said she had taken the other 3 boys from the boat and took them back to England. They all obviously came back as Jane and her 2nd husband Henry Goodwin her sons George Washington Lincoln Hemphill and John Hemphill are buried with her in Rookwood cemetery. Her other son james is the one i think is in Randwick cemetery and Samuel i have absolutley no idea were he went. he was aboard the Sobaron in 1897 and then i have nothing  :)
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: melandjamie on Saturday 23 April 11 08:41 BST (UK)
Tell me, people, what's the Sobroan?   ???   ???   ???

Dawn M

the Sobaron was a ship set up in the late 1800 as a boys reformitary school. If they we're under 16 years old they got sent here if they got caught by the police. There was also the Vernon which was the same thing
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: majm on Saturday 23 April 11 08:45 BST (UK)
Dawn, it was a ship in Sydney Harbour that was used as an school for homeless boys .... pre WW I

Spelling is not quite correct, I think it was NSS (Nautical School Ship) SOBRAON ...

I am very clunky at moment, using wifi kindle reader as ISP cable connection has been disturbed at the street/pit and affecting our remote neighbourhood.  

Try Google NSS Sobraon

Cheers JM
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: majm on Saturday 23 April 11 08:53 BST (UK)
James date of birth 15 April 1883 !  from entrance records and from quick read of his younger bro Samuel's entrance, it is quite possible that James and two other brothers were in England with their mother who may have been known as Jane RISCO at that time ie... Feb 1897.

Statement by Geo Fredk RISCO, civil engineer on oath re Samuel Hemphill .. on 4 Feb 1897

I am a civil engineer residing at 174 Elizabeth St.  I have been acting as a guardian of the boy (ie Samuel Hemphill) for some months.  His mother has gone to England.  Three others of her children were onboard Sobraon but she got them off and took them with her.  .............. His father has deserted his mother ....

So I'm of the view that melandjamie is trying to match the chap who married Clara and lived at Suffolk St with the lad and or his brothers who were on the Sobraon. 

But just how to find him ... particularly as the admission paper notes Samuel's mother as being Jane RISCO in 1897 ... well that's what RChatters are here for ...

So which three lads did she take to England ... and under what surname, and who returned and under what surname .... 

Cheers,  JM 

Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: majm on Saturday 23 April 11 09:43 BST (UK)
Worth considering:

J. Hemphill age 17 of Sydney was crew (BOY) on board SS ALLINGA out of Brisbane into Sydney on 22 June 1899 (I think this could be John rather than James, but it is my own speculation) ...  same vessel 21 July 1899 but as an OS, etc

J Hemphill age 17, of British, was crew (OS) on board Miowera (may be poor transcription) out of South Sea Islands etc, arriving Sydney 5 Feb 1901 (now this could be JAMES, who was born April 1883) ....

Particularly as these brothers had some sea legs from their time on the NSS and on the voyages to and fro England ...

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: majm on Saturday 23 April 11 09:49 BST (UK)
Could this be the father of those lads?

A seaman ?

A.B. John Hemphill, age 24 of Glasgow, crew on the BRITISH AMBASSADOR into Sydney from London arriving 25 January 1881

A.B. John Hemphill, age 25 of Glasgow, crew on the VENICE into Sydney from Hong Kong arriving 11 June 1883

http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: melandjamie on Saturday 23 April 11 10:48 BST (UK)
James date of birth 15 April 1883 !  from entrance records and from quick read of his younger bro Samuel's entrance, it is quite possible that James and two other brothers were in England with their mother who may have been known as Jane RISCO at that time ie... Feb 1897.

Statement by Geo Fredk RISCO, civil engineer on oath re Samuel Hemphill .. on 4 Feb 1897

I am a civil engineer residing at 174 Elizabeth St.  I have been acting as a guardian of the boy (ie Samuel Hemphill) for some months.  His mother has gone to England.  Three others of her children were onboard Sobraon but she got them off and took them with her.  .............. His father has deserted his mother ....

So I'm of the view that melandjamie is trying to match the chap who married Clara and lived at Suffolk St with the lad and or his brothers who were on the Sobraon. 

But just how to find him ... particularly as the admission paper notes Samuel's mother as being Jane RISCO in 1897 ... well that's what RChatters are here for ...

So which three lads did she take to England ... and under what surname, and who returned and under what surname .... 

Cheers,  JM 



we think Risco must have been a man she was living with after her husband John did a runner on her ( i must order a copy of their divorce papers to see what happened) the 3 brother were John,James and George. John was 13 James was 11 and george was 6 when they got sent to the Sobraon. Samuel at the time we think was at Five docks school, i've sent them an email to see if they have any records of him being there.

I have no idea under what name they left on or if they even left at all, the mother and John and George are all buried together in Rookwood cemetery my husband is a desendent of George, Georges full name was George Washington Lincoln Hemphill and his birthday was the 4th of July, you can't tell me the Irish don't have a sense of humour lol
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: melandjamie on Saturday 23 April 11 10:51 BST (UK)
Could this be the father of those lads?

A seaman ?

A.B. John Hemphill, age 24 of Glasgow, crew on the BRITISH AMBASSADOR into Sydney from London arriving 25 January 1881

A.B. John Hemphill, age 25 of Glasgow, crew on the VENICE into Sydney from Hong Kong arriving 11 June 1883

http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/

Cheers,  JM

it's possiable i have'nt been able to find anything on him after the divorce. he was listed as a mechanic/engineer on his wedding certificate so that could be useful on a ship. What does the A.B stand for before the name?
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: melandjamie on Saturday 23 April 11 10:55 BST (UK)
Could this be the father of those lads?

A seaman ?

A.B. John Hemphill, age 24 of Glasgow, crew on the BRITISH AMBASSADOR into Sydney from London arriving 25 January 1881

A.B. John Hemphill, age 25 of Glasgow, crew on the VENICE into Sydney from Hong Kong arriving 11 June 1883

http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/

Cheers,  JM

just re checked this info an unfortunatley it can't be the missing dad. the last child was born in 1893 and in John Jrs statement in 1895 it said his dad had gone back to Ireland so it must have been sometime between 1893-1985
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: majm on Saturday 23 April 11 10:56 BST (UK)
 ;D

Well I do think that many of the lads who spent time on the NSS vessels in Sydney in those days may well have found themselves well trained for crews in merchant navy or service in WWI in RAN which of course was under the direction of the RN...

http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/recordsearch/index.aspx  perhaps some mentions.  

A.B. = Able Bodied Seaman

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: majm on Saturday 23 April 11 11:00 BST (UK)
There's a lot of population movement from Ireland to Scotland and vice versa in 19thC ... so it is possible that was the lads father in the 1880's as crew on ships into Sydney... 

of Glasgow may just indicate when he signed he answered with where he had been raised, obviously it is not possible for him to know in 1880's where his parents (ie grandparents of the lads) were residing in the 1890's ...

JM
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: cando on Saturday 23 April 11 13:01 BST (UK)
Did James marry twice.... :-\

12626/1911
HEMPHILL    James   
GORDON    Julia O    
District Canterbury

Divorce#0195   
1920   
HEMPHILL   Julia Olive   
HEMPHILL   James

The newspaper snippet in 1924
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0cvl/

and then the marriage I have already posted

5724/1924    
HEMPHILL    James
CROWLEY    Clara
District Petersham

Cando
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: melandjamie on Saturday 23 April 11 14:29 BST (UK)
Did James marry twice.... :-\

12626/1911
HEMPHILL    James   
GORDON    Julia O    
District Canterbury

Divorce#0195   
1920   
HEMPHILL   Julia Olive   
HEMPHILL   James

The newspaper snippet in 1924
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0cvl/

and then the marriage I have already posted

5724/1924    
HEMPHILL    James
CROWLEY    Clara
District Petersham

Cando

ooohh you might have found something there, it would explain the late marriage to Clara. i'll have to dig a bit deeper in the morning thank you  :)
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: majm on Sunday 24 April 11 04:29 BST (UK)
From Sands 1900 Directory

Hemphill, J.A. commercial broker, 5 Moore St (I think this would now be Martin Place, Sydney), with p.r. (Private Residence) at George St Marrickville. 

From Sands 1890 Directory
Hemphill, Jane Mrs, midwife, 31 Henderson St Alexandria
Hemphill, John, engineer, 31 Henderson St Alexandria


From Sands 1892 Suburban Directory .... 31 Henderson St Alexandria was vacant.  (noting one of my forebears lived much further up same street in that era, and that) 31 would be on the northern side of the street.

Sands 1905 Directory .... J.A. Hemphill at same addresses/entry as 1900.  Also there's two Mrs M.A. Hemphill entries...
54 Foveaux St (near Central Station) and 14 Wilson St Redfern .... perhaps two ladies ...

NSW electoral roll 1903 ... no HEMPHILL at Marrickville ...

Perhaps these sightings will help...


Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: majm on Sunday 24 April 11 05:04 BST (UK)
Possibly the boys mum arriving in NSW for the first time !

  HEMPHILL Jane 23 Ellora 1879 Sydney and daughter

Jane Hemphill, aged 23, with daughter Margaret aged 4, into Sydney in April 1879 on the Ellora.   Jane is listed as a WIFE and family (not a widow), and she was a housekeeper, C of E and could read and write.  Her native place was Autrim ... I am sure this is in Ireland.

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: cando on Sunday 24 April 11 05:13 BST (UK)
Did James marry twice.... :-\

12626/1911
HEMPHILL    James   
GORDON    Julia O    
District Canterbury

Divorce#0195   
1920   
HEMPHILL   Julia Olive   
HEMPHILL   James

The newspaper snippet in 1924
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0cvl/

and then the marriage I have already posted

5724/1924    
HEMPHILL    James
CROWLEY    Clara
District Petersham

Cando

ooohh you might have found something there, it would explain the late marriage to Clara. i'll have to dig a bit deeper in the morning thank you  :)

Either of these certificates would deatil the parents of both the bride and groom. 

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: majm on Sunday 24 April 11 06:11 BST (UK)
Jane and Margaret may have remained onboard the Ellora and returned to Sydney in Sept 1879 on that same ship.  I am attaching a snip from the Sept voyage as it may help determine Jane's nee name and origins and even poss place of marriage to her husband John who was at that time in Sydney and noted as the Father of Jane's Lanark born daughter.  It is difficult to read.

Cheers,  JM

Should that be ANTRIM, Ireland .... also is it likely that LANARK (daughter's place of birth) would be Scotland .. and I cannot figure out Jane's parents names at all .... (but it does say C of Eng and "do" would be ditto for read and write .... etc)
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: majm on Sunday 24 April 11 07:19 BST (UK)
Perhaps something of interest

From the Andrews Newspapers Index Cards (England) a newspaper cutting

"Would the next of kin of James Hemphill late of Paddington, Sydney, Australia communicate with The Public Trustee of 19 O'Connell St Sydney" .... 

this would be from UK newspaper, which is overwritten in ink pen, I can read 1951, but not the month or newspaper.

Cheers,  JM 
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: Billyblue on Sunday 24 April 11 07:30 BST (UK)

Should that be ANTRIM, Ireland .... also is it likely that LANARK (daughter's place of birth) would be Scotland .. and I cannot figure out Jane's parents names at all .... (but it does say C of Eng and "do" would be ditto for read and write .... etc)

Belfast is the capital of County Antrim in (Northern) Ireland.
Wiki says Lanark was the county town of Lanarkshire (Scotland).  I personally haven't found any other place called Lanark.

If the parents are the two names in the middle of the snip, I read them as James & Margaret (Magt)
Caldwell.

Dawn M
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: melandjamie on Sunday 24 April 11 11:35 BST (UK)
Jane and Margaret may have remained onboard the Ellora and returned to Sydney in Sept 1879 on that same ship.  I am attaching a snip from the Sept voyage as it may help determine Jane's nee name and origins and even poss place of marriage to her husband John who was at that time in Sydney and noted as the Father of Jane's Lanark born daughter.  It is difficult to read.

Cheers,  JM

Should that be ANTRIM, Ireland .... also is it likely that LANARK (daughter's place of birth) would be Scotland .. and I cannot figure out Jane's parents names at all .... (but it does say C of Eng and "do" would be ditto for read and write .... etc)


thank you this is definetly my family. Jane and Margaret arrived on the Ellora. I have Jane and Johns marriage certificate, they got married in Antrim which is part of belfast in Ireland. Janes parents names were James and Margaret Caldwell of Belfast. I've seen it spelt Cromwell and calwell. they must have lived in Lanark Scotland fo a while as i have an address there from Margarets birth certificate. they also had a son before margaret named Thomas William Hemphill and he was born in Sept 1874 but i have no record of him after that and he wasn't on the ships records so i'm uessing he died either at birth or not long after.
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: melandjamie on Sunday 24 April 11 11:36 BST (UK)

From Sands 1890 Directory
Hemphill, Jane Mrs, midwife, 31 Henderson St Alexandria
Hemphill, John, engineer, 31 Henderson St Alexandria


From Sands 1892 Suburban Directory .... 31 Henderson St Alexandria was vacant.  (noting one of my forebears lived much further up same street in that era, and that) 31 would be on the northern side of the street.


Perhaps these sightings will help...


Cheers,  JM

Thanks thats mine as well :O) i didn't have those addresses so thank you
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: melandjamie on Sunday 24 April 11 11:41 BST (UK)
Perhaps something of interest

From the Andrews Newspapers Index Cards (England) a newspaper cutting

"Would the next of kin of James Hemphill late of Paddington, Sydney, Australia communicate with The Public Trustee of 19 O'Connell St Sydney" .... 

this would be from UK newspaper, which is overwritten in ink pen, I can read 1951, but not the month or newspaper.

Cheers,  JM 

wow that's very interesting if that's my James i thought all the family ended up here in Australia but i am still missing one brother Samuel. maybe he ended up back in the UK and that's why i haven't been able to find him.
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: majm on Monday 25 April 11 05:07 BST (UK)
I think that the cutting of 1951 is most likely your lad .... Reasoning : his d.c. is the only likely registration on NSW BDM online index that could have prompted the Public Trustee to place an Advert in 1951 .... 

Clara had died in 1947 (NSW BDM ref 7062) as Clara Edith Hemphill.  Transcript of that d.c. would confirm if she had children by James. 

You have him as having no issue, thus the Public Trustee must have been appointed to administer his estate...  The placement of that Advert in UK paper doesn't mean they KNEW there could be UK family, but that their files indicated there was some reason to believe there could be UK family.... 

NSW Public Trustee is still at 19 O'Connell St Sydney ...

I wonder where their Archives from 1950-51 are held?

Trust Service Centre Sydney   GPO Box 7, Sydney NSW 1005
Email: tagtscsydney(don't forget to put the usual "at" symbol here)tag.nsw.gov.au

Cheers,  JM

Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: melandjamie on Monday 25 April 11 05:55 BST (UK)
Perhaps something of interest

From the Andrews Newspapers Index Cards (England) a newspaper cutting

"Would the next of kin of James Hemphill late of Paddington, Sydney, Australia communicate with The Public Trustee of 19 O'Connell St Sydney" .... 

this would be from UK newspaper, which is overwritten in ink pen, I can read 1951, but not the month or newspaper.

Cheers,  JM 

the site I'm using has this down as a date of 11Th march 1951 and the initials written in pen over the top of it look like it say N.W.H 3-1951 which would make me think they are referring to the 3rd month of 1951 but i have no idea what the N.W.H is maybe the name of the newspaper? any ideas?
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: cando on Monday 25 April 11 06:50 BST (UK)
I thought I had posted this snippet... :-\
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0cwn/

Some certificates would be helpful.

Cando
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: majm on Monday 25 April 11 06:51 BST (UK)
NWH

... no ideas at all .... but your interpretation of the ink overwriting on that Ad is logical, and I agree it is their citation ... and it is definitely a cutting from a newspaper.  It mentions Australia, so definitely NOT an Aussie paper, and it is on an index that mentions ENGLAND ... so most likely an English newspaper.  

H quite often stands for Herald in newspaper speak .... N W ... North West .... New World ....

perhaps a new thread on the Common Room asking for specific info as to NWL in 1951 newspaper cutting .. mentioning this thread ...  

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: majm on Monday 25 April 11 06:57 BST (UK)
Agh,  I must have missed that .... Intestate ... but of course, so that would get fairly quickly to the Public Trustee's domain for action ...

JAMES HEMPHILL late of Paddington N.S.W.. Retired Tobacco Worker, died 14th July, 1950, Intestate. Admini- stration was granted on 27th October, 1950. 

JM

Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: Billyblue on Monday 25 April 11 06:57 BST (UK)
N.W.H. could be North West Herald but google only gives this (that I can find) as a paper in Chicago USA.

Seems feasible that there would be one with a name like that, in UK?

Of course it might just be the initials of the clerk / transcriber??
Dawn M
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: cando on Monday 25 April 11 06:59 BST (UK)
Quote
.. no ideas at all .... but your interpretation of the ink overwriting on that Ad is logical, and I agree it is their citation ... and it is definitely a cutting from a newspaper.  It mentions Australia, so definitely NOT an Aussie paper, and it is on an index that mentions ENGLAND ... so most likely an English newspaper.  

http://blog.fibis.org/?p=241

Cando
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: melandjamie on Monday 25 April 11 08:47 BST (UK)
Agh,  I must have missed that .... Intestate ... but of course, so that would get fairly quickly to the Public Trustee's domain for action ...

JAMES HEMPHILL late of Paddington N.S.W.. Retired Tobacco Worker, died 14th July, 1950, Intestate. Admini- stration was granted on 27th October, 1950. 

JM



uumm ok i'm going to show my ignorance now what does that mean? lol i thought it must have ment he died interstate. what would that have to do with the public trustees domain?  :) i'm learning so much doing all of this thank you all so much for all the information and advice you have given me i really appreciated it
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: majm on Monday 25 April 11 08:53 BST (UK)
 ;D

RChat is wonderful .... Intestate means died without a will .... without determining what happens to the ESTATE

so the courts appoint the PUBLIC TRUSTEE (a government institution) to handle the estate .... debts v any property/cash at hand etc...

Cheers,  JM

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intestacy
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: melandjamie on Monday 25 April 11 09:03 BST (UK)
oh that makes more sense i should learn to read properly there was no R in intestate lol

good news is I've found out where in Randwick cemetery they are buried so that's a step forward :O)

Hemphill, Clara d.15/05/1947 bur. 17/05/1947 Age 53 Section CE S Plot 2 Address & Other 32 Suffolk St Paddington

Hemphill, James d.15/07/1950 bur.18/07/1950 Age 66 Section CE S Plot 2 Address & Other 32 Suffolk St Paddington

James and Clara are buried together in Church of England Section S, Plot 2.

It appears that at least Clara has (had) a headstone, per the Monumental Inscription details:-

Hemphill Clara Edith Section/Plot CE S2 Date of Death 15 May 1947
 Inscription My Wife

I'm going to be so disappointed if this turns out not to be my James, I've ordered the wedding certificate so now i just have to sit and wait :O)
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: melandjamie on Tuesday 26 April 11 11:19 BST (UK)
just wanted to say thank you so so much to Shakel for taking time to go to Randwick cemetery for me and tracking down the graves of James and Clara. Clara had a head stone but unfortunately James didn't so i still don't know if this is my James or not I'll just have to try and wait patiently for their wedding certificate to arrive  :)
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: majm on Tuesday 26 April 11 11:28 BST (UK)
Oh may I please say just a few words


Thank you melandjamie for thanking Shakel ... it is so heartening to read RChatters sharing their thanks so publicly. 

Very touched I am .... and of course waiting patiently for your post when that m.c. arrives.

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: shakel on Tuesday 26 April 11 11:47 BST (UK)
You're very welcome Melissa. Hope it all goes well for you.
Shakel
Title: (COMPLETE)Re: Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: melandjamie on Wednesday 04 May 11 12:06 BST (UK)
Yay it's him!!!!
James did marry Julia O Gordon and then divorced and re married Clara Crowley but the best bit is they had a daughter so more digging to do  ;D

thank you again to everyone for their help, now onto the next brother and this one is a doosy I'm definitely gong to need help with this one  :)
Title: Re: (COMPLETE)Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: majm on Thursday 05 May 11 01:37 BST (UK)
Great  news

Hoping you will find the bro too .... Did you sort out the UK advert?

Cheers  JM
Title: Re: (COMPLETE)Randwick cemetery James HEMPHILL 1950
Post by: melandjamie on Thursday 05 May 11 10:38 BST (UK)
no, no idea what paper it was from