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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Glamorganshire => Wales => Glamorganshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: george12 on Sunday 24 April 11 15:07 BST (UK)
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Looking for information about the family of David MICHAEL who came to Swansea with his brother c1740 as refugees from Germany.
Particularly interested in BDM records for David (c1715-c1797), his wife Rachael (c1717-1807), and their son Levi (c1754-1841) and his wife Rosy(c1759-1846) - wondering where these records are likely to be held.
Apparently prominent contributors to the civic life of Swansea in late 1700's to mid 1800's - I believe there is a portrait of my 3g.grandfather Francis David MICHAEL (1784-1876) at a Freemason's Lodge there.
Would be grateful for any help to find these records of early Jewish families in Swansea ... Jim
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Hi,
FreeBMD has this death registration:
Rosy Michael DecQ 1846 Swansea 26 375
A copy of the certificate can be ordered from the GRO and cost £9.25.
Nanny Jan
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several mentions on the Cambrian index
http://www.swansea.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=6197
Levi's son David died 1/7/1815
His daughter Fanny married Judah Lion 11/4/1840 GRO reg june qtr 1840 Swansea vol 26 pg 771
His daughter Letitia, wife of Joseph Mier, died in Birmingham 30/10/1846 GRO ref dec qtr 1846 Birmingham vol 16 pg 329
His daughter Ann, wife of Phillips Levy, died in Edinburgh 12/2/1847
Anna Michael married P Levy 24/8/1822
The Goat Street synagogue was detroyed in the Blitz
http://www.swansea.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=38349
The Swansea archives has some surviving records - David's seal & signature here
http://www.swansea.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=38291
http://www.swansea.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=38364
;)
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Thanks Osprey and Jan,
I had seen the Cambrian Index Online but had not realised the records were given to West Glamorgan Archives in 2009 - will get in touch with them.
Thankyou for going to so much trouble to put the reply together - great to see David's signature and seal after all this time.
Hope to see a photo of the Freemason's portrait of Francis 'David' Michael one day.
Regards ... Jim
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the records were deposited not long after the synagogue closed, so possibly the best way of preserving them?
http://www.thejc.com/community/19354/closure-swansea-hebrew-synagogue
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Dear 'Jim'
I was fascinated to come across this site and to see your messages. My maiden name was Michael, and I knew my forebears were from Swansea. I have a mourning bracelet containing Michael John Michael's hair and name engraved on the other side. My grandfather was Reginald Warburton Michael. I have always been intrigued by the family history. All I knew was that they were Jewish bankers or merchants fleeing Hamburg en route for America, but for some reason settled in Swansea. My father (Eric Walter) died when I was thirteen. He had a sister, Phyllis, and two younger brothers, Maurice and Ian. My father was a tea and rubber planter in Ceylon where I was born. I have four first cousins on my Michael side, who are somewhat younger than me. I am a mother and grandmother and live in County Durham.
I should love to have more information from you and as to how you ended up in Australia.
Yours sincerely,
Stephanie Warburton
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Hi Stephanie,
welcome to Rootschat! ;D
hope Jim is in touch soon.
;)
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hi ,do you think if you contacted the swansea synagoue they may be able to help you,
the address is ffynone road swansea west glamorgan ,sa1 6bt
it may be worth writing to them :)
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Hello Hamburgmichael :)
Welcome to Rootschat!
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Kind regards
Morgan
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Dear Stephanie,
It's nice to hear from you.
The Michael family has extended far and wide over the years. My branch is from David's son Levi M then Francis David M to Susanna Penelope M. She emigrated from Swansea to Maldon in Victoria with her husband and five children in 1858 (Brothers from each family emigrated also) Her husband William Attwood Tregaskis came from a miner/engineering family from Cornwall, but had spent most of his life in Swansea and worked with his father as a Baker at the quay .....
My father had a glazing business in Melbourne, then we had a craft shop on the Mornington peninsula. I've now retired to a small property near Bendigo, using my agricultural college training a little.
Do you have access to the family trees on Ancestry.com ? - there are a few trees with comprehensive information about the family back to David M .
You may know your descendancy from David Michael to your grandfather, but just in case :
David M and Rachael ? - their son Jacob(abt 1757-1835) and Leah Hart(abt 1772-1840) - their son Jacob(1800-1882) a London Solicitor and Rosetta Hart(1797-1863) - their son Walter Amos(1832-1903) and Louisa Harriet Seppings(1828-1907) - your grandfather.
Michael John Michael(1792-1861) was the elder brother of the later Jacob, and Mayor of Swansea, Vice-Consul for Sweden and Norway, ...
Some people have David coming from Frankfurt, but perhaps Hamburg seems more likely.
Intend to contact West Glamorgan Archives soon to see what records they hold from the 1700's.
Regards ... Jim
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Dear Jim,
I was delighted to get your reply as I always felt that there must be more family out there somewhere. I never really had the opportunity to discuss any of it as I hardly knew my father and my mother's knowledge was sketchy, understandably, as she was not a Michael! My grandfather, Reginald, otherwise known as Rex, came up from the south of England to farm near Kelso, Scotland. No one knows why, as he had no farming background. There he met and married the local bank manager's daughter, Margaret Kerr. She apparently was rather mystified by her father in-law as having rather foreign ways; i.e. kissing her hand on meeting. Rex was the younger half-brother of Walter Amos, I imagine. Again I don't know his background but I do have three very good oil paintings by him. He was much travelled. I am vague as to what he did, but I do know that several of the Michaels went up to Cambridge and read Law. My uncle Ian, again whom I hardly knew, had a number of early portraits of Michael ancestors hanging on his walls. Don't know what has happened to these as he is now dead. My grandfather's elder half-brother was called Harry M. He seemed well off and was married to a cousin called Letty. Her maiden name might have been Batchelor, as the family solicitors in the City were Batchelor Fry and Burder; now no longer or taken over. Great uncle Harry M. was a very sweet man. He had been in the Indian Civil. He loved horses having been a polo player and kept up his betting interests well into old age. No children from his marriage. My father's brothers were intellectuals and academics and their children are likewise. I have a daughter who is an illustrator of children's books and is married to a furniture restorer and designer. They have two daughters. My son works in Thailand where I have visited several times and hope to go again.
My mother once told me that the original ancestor (David?) was mentioned in a book called Ships that Pass in the Night, but I cannot find it or any mention of it on the internet, so all rather vague.
I have thought from time to time of going to Swansea to look things up but this is always on hold. Presumably you have never visited the UK hence your researches via the internet. Thank you very much for the Ancestors.com suggestion which I shall certainly follow up.
Any more news from you would be much appreciated as I am so pleased to have found a Michael relation.
With best wishes, Stephanie
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Dear Jim,
Just to follow up. You made no mention of William Henry Michael - a pillar of non-conformity, founder of the Ragged School, chairman of the gas company, First Medical Officer and ultimately an eminent Q.C. (Quoted from Swansea records I logged onto sometime ago.) I know he is closely related but could he be the father of my great uncle Harry (or Henry), my grandfather's half elder brother?
My mother once mentioned one of the Michael's as having been responsible for the drains in Swansea; perhaps this was William!
Would welcome your thoughts and news of other Australian Michaels' if you have time.
Yours,
Stephanie
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Dear Stephanie,
Sorry for the delay with the reply - wanted to check some details for a few people, which can be a slow process for me sometimes.
Rather than type out all the relevant information, perhaps I could get Ancestry.com to send you a free invitation to view the tree I have there. It takes a little while to learn how to navigate around the branches, but if you read and open the various boxes on each page it soon becomes familiar. You cannot search Ancestry records yourself unfortunately. The free invitation allows you to view and copy all the information on each page/person on the tree that may be of interest.
The information about people thought to be living is not available to the public. If you wanted to do this, you need to send me a PM (Personal Message offline - click onto the scroll beside the little face near the top left of this Post) with your email address for me to send to Ancestry and they will forward the 'invitation and ability to open' the tree immediately.
A few points of interest :
Your grandfather Reginald W M in 1891 Census was an Agriculture Student at The Colonial College, Hollesley Bay, Suffolk ( rec read online - 'Benefits bestowed: education and British imperialism' by J A Mangan from p199) In 1901 Census he and Margaret were at Corsbie Farm, Legerwood/Earlston, near Kelso. He seems to have gone to New York in 1903.
Walter Amos M (Rex's father!), Railway Company Director, lived in retirement at the Hotel Continental, Ajaccio, Corsica with his third wife Louisa Harriet Seppings ( her g.grandfather Sir Robert Seppings was a Naval Architect ... )
g.uncle Harry was Walter Henry M (1866-1957) only child of Walter Amos M and second wife Pauline Anne Charnock ( Barrister's daughter) - he married Letty Maud Batchelor, his third cousin. Letty was born in Deniliquin, Australia on a brief trip by her parents, Henry Cooper Batchelor and Mary Michael.
The 'pillar of non-conformity' William Henry M was Walter Amos' 2nd cousin.
I mentioned on the last Post that the younger Jacob M was the son of Jacob M , but just found an adult christening for him in 1833 that indicates he was born in 1795, the son of Levi M and Rosetta Hart. They are my forebears, so we are closer cousins than I thought.
Levi and Jacob (brothers) were business partners, Silversmith/Jewellers and Tea Traders and also owned significant original shares and were on the steering committee of the Swansea Canal Company formed to bring the coal down to the port.
I had the customary six month trip to UK and Europe in 1975 and visited Swansea without realising the family significance. Unfortunately not likely to have a return visit.
Thanks for the personal anecdotes - they bring the past back more clearly than anything.
Regards .. Jim
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Stephanie,
Interested to see the posts from you and from Jim. There is lots more as you can imagine. The Harts from Cornwall and the Michaels from Swansea became very closely linked in the late 1700's and 1800's as I guess you already know. If Reginald Warburton Michael was your grandfather, then you and I should be 4th cousins as my g-g-grandfather was David Hart, brother of Rose Hart who married Jacob Michael.
To be honest, I haven't put the tree on ancestry.com and I think its much more complete and accurate than some of those already there - but these things always get amended over time. Its too easy to jump to wrong conclusions (especially over dates of birth taken from census information)
Sometime soon - probably over Christmas - I'll send some further info which might be if interest.
Mike
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:Dear Mike,
Thank you so much; I am intrigued! Yes, confirm that Reginald Warburton Michael is my grandfather. I look forward to hearing more from you. 4th cousins, how amazing. I never knew there were so many of us out there.
With best wishes,
Stephanie
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Hello Mike :)
Welcome to Rootschat!
How exciting to find your 4th cousin on here 8) Once you have made another 2 postings you will be able to exchange private information such as email addresses with other rootschatters.
New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Kind regards
Morgan
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Mike,
I was very pleased to see your recent message regarding the Hart and Michael families.
It occurred to me that the descendants of David Hart would be the most likely to have an accurate early record of the families.
It would be great to get this period of their history correct.
Regards ... Jim
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:Dear Mike,
Thank you so much; I am intrigued! Yes, confirm that Reginald Warburton Michael is my grandfather. I look forward to hearing more from you. 4th cousins, how amazing. I never knew there were so many of us out there.
With best wishes,
Stephanie
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Mike,
I realise the last message was too broad and open-ended, so I hope you don't mind a few short specific questions.
You probably don't want a drawn out correspondence which I completely understand, particularly considering typing and computers do not come naturally to me.
1. Do you know where the Michaels and the Harts lived in Germany and when they left?
2. Who was the original David Michael's wife - Rachel nee? and did they have more than 3 children?
3. What children do you have for his son Levi Michael and Rosetta Hart and who were this Rosetta(Rosy)'s parents?
Any BDM dates, locations and occupations would be appreciated.
Hope this is not a nuisance - we would be very grateful for clarification of this part of our direct lineage.
Regards ... Jim
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Hi, I am descended from a Michael family from the Mumbles/Swansea. I don't know if we are entirely seperate from this line or if we have links but would love to see if we can find out. Any help would be appreciated. My line is via a George Michael born Oystermouth/Mumbles in 1854, died 1903 in the Mumbles Lifeboat disaster. I have his parents as Thomas Michael born approx 1810 and Margaret Brown. I believe Thomas' father was a John Michael born approx 1791 ish and John's father I believe to be William Michael born approx 1760..although I have very little data to 100% confirm John and William as Thomas Michael's father and grandfather so this may not be accurate.
Any help at all would be greatly appreciated. The Michael family was very established in the Mumbles along with several other big Mumbles surnames such as Gammon and Ace. Several history books refer to the Michael's arriving in the area by 1800 and imply they came form somewhere else but as to where I do not know and I would be intrigued to see if we have a connection to the Jewish Michael's of Swansea.
Many Thanks
Angiy Michael
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Hello Angiy :)
Welcome to Rootschat!
Once you have made 3 postings on here, you will be able to use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data, such as email addresses and family names, with other Rootschatters.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Kindest regards
Morgan
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Hi ! Thank you ! :)
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Hi Angiy,
I had noticed another Michael family around Oystermouth and thought they were probably from a more local Welsh family. If you think they arrived in the area about 1800, maybe this is another branch ??
Assume you have access to census records - anyhow I looked at returns for 1841,1851,1861 and 1871 and noticed the 1841 census listed Thomas Michael Junior, a Fisherman at Mumbles Village with wife Margaret(nee Brown married SepQ1837 in Swansea) and children Charles born 1838 and Elizabeth born late 1840. Later censuses list other children as Sarah J born 1845, Thomas born 1849, Margaret A born 1852 and George born 1854. Thomas later married Susan Lewis nee Hill in 1862 in Swansea - she was born in South Molton, Devon abt 1827, her father was Richard Hill born 1796 at Johnstone, Devon. She had at least two Lewis sons Thomas b1852 and Richard b1856 then a daughter Susanna b1868 with Thomas Michael.
From this it seems the father of Thomas Michael jnr born c1810-15 in Mumbles/Oystermouth was Thomas Michael snr, perhaps a cousin of John Michael and David Michael sons of William Michael and Ann Jone - refer to IGI Ancestral file. Unsure of connections here as there are Michaels variously dispersed throughout Wales. Then there are the Welsh patronymics ....
Hope this helps a little,
Regards ... Jim
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Hi
I know this is a few months on since the thread was active but there's a new member who you might be able to help. Here's the link:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,604865.0.html
Thanks
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Stephanie,
Interested to see the posts from you and from Jim. There is lots more as you can imagine. The Harts from Cornwall and the Michaels from Swansea became very closely linked in the late 1700's and 1800's as I guess you already know. If Reginald Warburton Michael was your grandfather, then you and I should be 4th cousins as my g-g-grandfather was David Hart, brother of Rose Hart who married Jacob Michael.
To be honest, I haven't put the tree on ancestry.com and I think its much more complete and accurate than some of those already there - but these things always get amended over time. Its too easy to jump to wrong conclusions (especially over dates of birth taken from census information)
Sometime soon - probably over Christmas - I'll send some further info which might be if interest.
Mike
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Dear Mike,
I was so disappointed not to hear from you as your news was so intriguing. You mentioned getting in touch again sometime in the New Year, but sadly heard no more. I hope you have not been ill?
Jim Walduck, who is doing so much research on the family, I know would also love to hear from you.
Here's hoping .........
Best wishes,
Stephanie
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Stephanie,
Interested to see the posts from you and from Jim. There is lots more as you can imagine. The Harts from Cornwall and the Michaels from Swansea became very closely linked in the late 1700's and 1800's as I guess you already know. If Reginald Warburton Michael was your grandfather, then you and I should be 4th cousins as my g-g-grandfather was David Hart, brother of Rose Hart who married Jacob Michael.
To be honest, I haven't put the tree on ancestry.com and I think its much more complete and accurate than some of those already there - but these things always get amended over time. Its too easy to jump to wrong conclusions (especially over dates of birth taken from census information)
Sometime soon - probably over Christmas - I'll send some further info which might be if interest.
Mike
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Dear Mike,
Happy 2018!
Dear Mike,
Would love to hear from you re the family connection; Harts and Michaels. You were kind enough to write some time ago that you would be sending more information about the family, so would LOVE to hear more. My children are at an age now - in their 50s - to take an interest in our ancestry - particularly the Penzance Harts etc. A wonderful portrait entitled "The Old Jew" by John Opie has just been purchased by the Penlee House and Museum, and the sitter is thought to be that of Rabbi Abraham Hart. Hope very much to hearing from you. Best wishes, Stephanie Warburton
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Hi Michael,
New to this. Hope it works. According to family-lore, I've ancestors who've 1) been hanged for sheep-stealing in Wales and 2) served in the [U.S.] Continental Army - a "Colonel Coombs". If you're interested in particulars, I'll get my sister to track them down. Best, Colby
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Hello!
I am new on here, but have been doing quite a bit of research into the Michael's of Swansea.
I am related through David Michael, Levi Michael, Jacob Michael, Lemon Hart Michael, and Henry Lemon Michael being my g grandfather.
Does anyone know where the Michael family came from in Germany?
David Michael's wife was Rachel ... does anyone know her last name?
Would be happy to chat!
Susan
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Hello Susan,
You may have read my previous posts on the Swansea Michaels, along with those of Jim Walduck - a connection living in Australia who has made me his guest on Ancestry.co.uk, from where I have gleaned a lot of hereto unknown family history; some of which is fascinating. In answer to your query, no one seems to have a clear idea from where in Germany the Michaels' hailed from. One theory was Hamburg where they were supposed to be bankers (money lenders probably.) They were intending to go to the US but stopping off in Swansea decided to settle there. My great grandfather was Michael Amos Michael, who was the son of Jacob and Rosetta 'Rose' Hart. My grandfather was Reginald Warburton Michael. No surname given for Rachel - David Michael's wife. Best wishes, Stephanie
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Hi Stephanie,
I was so excited to see I had received a reply to my post! I really wasn't expecting anything so soon - if anything at all ... thank you so much for taking the time.
Are you referring to Jacob Michael (1795-1882) and Rosetta (Rosy) Hart (1793-1863).. married in 1824? If so, my gx2 grandfather was Lemon Hart Michael, one of their sons.
There are quite a few 'Jacob's and 'Rosy's in the family, sometimes a bit confusing.
Thanks again for all the info you sent, I find it all so interesting and fascinating.
Susan
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Hello again, Susan! Good to hear from you as well. If your gx2 grandfather was Lemon Hart Michael then his brother was Walter Amos Michael - my great grandfather! So we are quite close. I am - a youthful 78 year old - so you will be much younger. It has taken sometime to work out who belongs to whom so hope you agree with my findings. The Lemon rum story is amazing. As I said, we have an interesting family tree. Not sure if you have read the previous correspondence between Jim Walduck and myself on Roots, or is this private to me. Jim has been invaluable. I think he and I are 4th cousins. He once came over from Australia to visit Swansea to see what else he could discover. My first cousin, Jonathan Michael, has numerous Michael family portraits. As Jim's guest on Ancestry I am only allowed to see the tree rather than any histories as this would involve me in paying the full subscription which I am loathe to do, but perhaps you might be interested. Any new info from your side would be invaluable! Best wishes, Stephanie
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Good morning Stephanie!
Wow, so seeing as we share Jacob & Rosy as g grandparents, we are somehow related? This is exciting! Who would ever know!!
I only came to know of my Jewish decent a couple months ago, when I googled 'Levi Michael' and a picture of his tombstone appeared, it was then when I found out he was buried in the Swansea Jewish Cemetery! From there, I was able to find out his Father's name, David, and wife Rachel from the JewishGen.org website.
Also learned David had at least 3 other siblings; Abraham, Jacob and Rosa? (from a Jewish Wills website)
I was also able to get in contact with a writer/historian who had written an article on the Swansea Jewish Cemetery "Exploring Swansea's Graveyards" who sent me some pictures of the cemetery and confirmed both Levi and wife Rosy are buried in the Swansea Cemetery. But could he not find a stone for David.
Do you know where Jacob and Rosy are buried? ..........or Lemon Hart Michael?
Lemon Hart Michael was my gg grandfather, and I'm assuming he was named after the Lemon Hart family business??!! ... seeing as his Mother was Rosy Hart? ..... wow!
I feel so honored and privileged to be part of this family - SOooo interesting - I had no idea!
My Gramma's Father, Henry Lemon Michael, left when she was only 4, so nothing much of the Michael family got passed along. I only briefly gathered some dates and names years ago from my Mom and this is what I had to work on when I started a couple of years ago.
I live in Canada, am 67 and hoping to visit England next Spring, especially to the Swansea area.
I keep reading previous emails trying to piece everyone together. Again, thanks so much!
Cheers! Susan
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Hello Susan, yes we are related but have not worked out how close. What fun. So you are Canadian! I knew very little about the Michael's family history, in fact, my mother only told me about it very briefly and sotto voce, three years after my father died when I was thirteen. I got the impression then that it was something to be ashamed of, I regret to say. However, thanks to my uncle's researches and the timely arrival of Jim Walduck on the scene, I have discovered what an interesting family they are! Yes, Lemon Hart would indeed be whom your gg grandfather was named after. What a shame he wasn't around long enough to give your grandmother his background. Have you seen the history of Lemon Hart and his rum on the internet? His first wife, Letitia, nee Michael - daughter of David and Rachel Michael - had a tragic death which is detailed in the history. Both Lemon Hart and his second wife are buried in the Brady Street cemetary, Whitechapel, London. My daughter has visited it and finds it a little gem, tucked away off the busy thoroughfare. I presume David Michael and his wife Rachel are buried in Swansea, but don't know about a tombstone. Incidentally, I found an entry on Ancestry that Rachel's maiden name was Griffiths, so presume she was a Gentile. The Jews were very good at assimilating unlike other persuasions. Still recommend you joining Ancestry.co.uk. as you will find a lot of answers to your queries there, such as death and marriage certificates. As I mentioned, I used to be able to do this before Ancestry got wise and tightened the rules so that a guest cannot access these unless they pay the full subscription, which I am loathe to do. Hope some of the above is useful. All the best, Stephanie
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Hello Susan, more research for you. Was your gt gt grandmother who was married to Lemon Henry Michael, named Esther Mary Wakeford born abt 1867 in Southampton, Hants? Further dates for Henry Lemon Michael that he was born in 1862 living in Burton Crescent, London. He died on 13th July, 1928 having lived at 117, Geraldine Road, Wandsworth, Surrey. Just found this on ancestry.co.uk in another section. It is quite a confusing site and difficult to get the relationships right as you have to keep moving backwards and forwards. It used to be much more simple with the family tree spread across got identification, but for some reason they changed the format. Best wishes, Stephanie
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Hi Stephanie!
Thank you so much for all the info you have passed along!... all so very useful!....
My Grandmother was Florence Amy Michael, born in Guernsey. The Michaels actually moved to Guernsey for a short time and this is when my GGrandfather (Henry Lemon Michael) met and married Emily May Carre (his first wife). According to the 1881 Census, Channel Islands, Lemon Hart Michael and family lived in St. Peter's Port, Guernsey. Henry Lemon was 21 at the time and still living at home. Then, according to 1891 England Census, the Michaels had all moved back to the London area (Battersea) including Henry who had remarried by then. As I mentioned before, Henry left when my Gramma was very young, and she never saw nor heard of him again.
So Esther Mary Wakeford was Henry Lemon's second wife. His divorce to Emily was registered in 1891. I found much of this info on Ancestery one weekend when it was free. They sometimes have it free over the long weekends.
Also, forgot to mention, if you google Lemon Hart Michael, he was a great artist - one thing my Mom kept mentioning to me. I was able to find one of his paintings put up for auction, but haven't been able to find any more. There must be some floating around London area I would think!
In 1903, my Gramma (Florence Amy Michael) married Thomas Maindonald in/from Guernsey and from there they immigrated to Canada in 1907.
The Michaels were quite impressive, weren't they? .... so smart, so talented!.. artists, lawyers ...
I've been googling the Brady Street Cemetery but Lemon Hart's burial doesn't seem to be recorded. Did your daughter find his actual stone? Noticed most are in Hebrew .. . hard to pick out?.. so neat!
Would you happen to know where Jacob and Rosy are buried?
Thanks so much again, and have a nice day :)
Susan
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Hi Susan, so annoying; my reply seems to have vanished just as I was doing more researches for you. The tombstone for Lemon Hart is in the Brady Street cemetary. Unfortunately I cannot attach the photo to this message, but I could send you it via email if you like. I found it by looking at the R Review: Lemon Hart & Son® Blackpool Spiced Rum
Written By Admin June 19, 2017. Scroll down and you will find the photos at the end. The tombstone is inscribed with both Hebrew and English; easily decipherable. I did know about Lemon Hart moving to Guernsey. A coincidence as my maternal grandmother's family were the Careys. Even stranger, a cousin married to the then bailiff, Sir Ambrose Sherwell had a portrait painted of him by Arthur Cadwgan Michael 1880-1965. Quite excited, I emailed Jim in Australia but he doubted the connection as he could not find any record in the family tree. As he says, Michael is quite a common Welsh surname. All I can find is that there is very little known about him. I have found one of Lemon Hart Michael's paintings - an unnamed European city somewhere - and thought it very good. What a shame you haven't any yourself! Have you googled James Lionel Michael who moved to Australia and became a minor poet plus other interests. He was found drowned in mysterious circumstances having made a few enemies. No, don't know whereabouts Jacob and Rosy are buried. That's all for the time being...... exciting isn't it? Off to bed to read a good book.....! BW, Stephanie
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Hi Stephanie ... me again ...
Wow, I just can't believe ALL that has unfolded relating to the Michael family just within the last two months .... I had no idea all this was out there for me to discover. Yes, I actually just read two nights ago about James Lionel who was found in the river. How dreadful, same with the girl whose dress caught on fire ... that poor girl. What a hard life those people must have lived. I really wish I could meet them all and talk to them, don't you?
I have been working on a family book for a couple years now, and I lay in bed at night wondering just how to put this all together. I think I need more pages!! I find it all so intriguing and I can spend hours searching the different sites!
... I just found a picture of Lemon Hart's stone .....I googled what you said and it came up, along with a pic of him ... thanks so much .... I think I had seen it before, but at the time, didn't know of the close connection! Thank you for forwarding that info.
Also looking to find out where Lemon Hart Michael is buried, the artist, would you know?
And just reading your email again .... it was Lemon Hart Michael (the artist) who moved to Guernsey ... not Lemon Hart ..... there are too many same names here .... a bit confusing ... :) I have to keep referring to my Michael family sheet to ensure I have the names in correct order!
Time to make some dinner, time flies on here .... such fun!
Have a good night! Susan
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Hello Susan; gosh, you have done well and with such enthusiasm! I don't think that there is an awful lot more I can do to help as you seem to be following all the leads. My gt grandfather, Walter Amos Michael - son of Jacob Michael and Rosetta 'Rose' Hart was married three times, having been widowed on the first two occasions. His third wife was Louisa Harriet Seppings whose gt gt uncle was Sir Robert Seppings, who from humble beginnings became Surveyor of the Royal Navy in 1832. His only son, Edward, along with his wife and young sons was murdered during the siege at Cawnpore, India. The wives and children still alive were thrown down a well. What a dreadful way to die..... This is all documented. Walter Amos was a good amateur painter and travelled a good deal, retiring to Ajaccaio, Corsica with his wife Louisa, where he died. For no given reason, he seems to have been awarded the Chevalier de l'Ordre des Saints Maurice et Lazare. Louisa returned to England. Walter's son by his second marriage, was my gt uncle, Walter Henry M, otherwise known as uncle Harry. A very sweet man. He married his cousin, Letty Maud Batchelor, whose mother's maiden name was Mary Michael. They had no children, and after he was widowed, he invited my father's spinster sister, Phyllis to be his housekeeper. I found her rather terrifying as she did not suffer fools gladly, and I always dreaded the invitation to have lunch with them at the end of every holiday. He was very deaf and could never hear what I said, so Phyllis had to shout a version that wasn't always factual. My mother at that stage was a widow - pretty and blond - and Phyllis, who was neither, feared that Uncle Harry, who liked blonds, would supplant her with my mother! My father's brothers were both academics, and one of them, Maurice, spoke at least 5 languages and had his own literary agency. The youngest brother, Ian, was out in Malawi and was Vice-Chancellor of the university and friend to Dr. Banda. My father was not an academic. He wanted to read medicine, but with two younger brothers to educate, he went out to learn how to plant tea in Ceylon at the age of 19 instead. It was in Ceylon that he met and married my mother, whose father was also a tea planter. So there is a bit of my family histoire. I shall leave you be, but if you come up with anything new I would love you to share it. What fun we are having. With very best wishes, Stephanie
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Hi Stephanie,
Your stories are so interesting ... thanks for the info! Sounds like there were many artists within the Michael family. Solicitors and artists - much smart and talented people!
Yes, I must say, I have gathered quite a bit of info on my own, thru Ancestry on free weekends and by just searching the various sites .. it's really amazing just how much info is out there now. I think Google must add more and more info over the time!
And thinking about Jacob and Rosy, I don't think they would be buried in a Jewish cemetery, seeing as they were married in an Anglican church - their religion had obviously changed by then - such a fascinating story really. But I may be wrong, so I will keep searching :)
Am working on a family tree, trying to piece together everyone now that I have more info.
Hope you have a nice weekend!
Cheers! Susan
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Hello Susan, many thanks and do keep in touch. I am puzzled as to these free access to Ancestry, something I haven't seen, so no wonder you have been able to research all the deaths, births and marriages. I hope you have a lovely weekend as well. Autumn is just breaking after an unbelievably good summer - for once. No doubt we shall be in for a bad winter as a punishment, but in recent years these have been pretty mild. So good to have met you through Rootschat. I wish the 'Mike' who claimed to be a 4th cousin and would tell me more about the family that would not be on Ancestry, but sadly never got in touch again. With very best wishes and good look with the family tree. Stephanie
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Hi Stephanie!
I haven't heard any advertisements for a while now for 'free' access on Ancestry, they used to advise on radio and tv frequently, especially if a long weekend was approaching, especially for Family Day in February, but haven't heard anything for a while. And they only open certain passages, last time it was UK records and this is when I got quite a bit info on the Michaels. If you like, I can send you the screenshots I took, not sure if you want to post your email address here, but I'd be happy to send them, along with the one page I've been working on which goes back 7 generations from my Mom. I've noted b-day, date/place of marriages and burials for the ones I know. I keep adding as I go along. I'm like you, I don't really care to pay for anything, as I think I've gathered quite a bit of info on my own, you just have to keep searching which is part of the fun :)
It has also cooled down over here, after such a HOT summer, and I much prefer it this way. We had so many days of high humidity, I don't enjoy those days!
I was just over to London this past April, came with my daughter, granddaughter (1 year) and husband, who was attending a conference. Only stayed one week. Little did I know at the time, how close I was to all this family history. This is why I want to go back. My Father's family came from northern England, near Liverpool, which was too far to travel to at the time. I thoroughly enjoyed London ... I think it's one of my favorite places ever visited!
Yes, please keep in touch! I think it's amazing we've come in contact here!!
Have a nice day! Susan
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Hi Susan, Rootschat advises not to air email addresses, so better take their advice, which is a pity. I have quite a few relevant dates myself, a lot gleaned from my uncle. Take a look at Selim Solomon married to Sophie Nathan - both from Newcastle. You will find him a fascinating man. Details are on the internet as well as a background history from a man called Martin of JGSB Newsletter January 2016. You will note that Selim's mother was an Amelia Woolf, daughter of Lemon Woolf of Penzance!So there is another connection with the family. We live in the North of England but far up nearer Cumbria. Very beautiful part of the country but it can be chilly. We don't care much for London anymore, all so changed from when we lived and worked there and it was safer with not so many immigrants. But my two granddaughters work and love it there so the young don't have the same concerns. All the best, Stephanie
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you can exchange email addresses via pm, just don't put them on the public boards. Click on the icon under the poster's details that looks like a letter.
;)
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Hi Stephanie! Take a look at this!! .......
https://niblettjohn.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=niblettjohn&view=9&ver=40305
I found it last night (late) and if you look for David Michael you can see the first page of his written will!! I guess I was expecting it to be typewritten (as I knew it was available for purchase), but then, typewriters did not exist back then! ... can you imagine writing this with pen/ink via candle light? Very very difficult to decipher, if you enlarge, makes it a bit easier.
Think some of the dates are incorrect? .... but very interesting nonetheless!
Enjoy!
Susan
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"Many thanks. As you say, the handwritten Will is very difficult to read even with enlargement. Just read a message from Rootschat that I can exchange email addresses via pm, just don't put them on the public boards. Click on the icon under the poster's details that looks like a letter." Not sure where this is so will continue exploring..... Stephanie
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I have extensive well-organized material on the Hart family (that includes the Michael family) but don't know how to communicate individually to members of the family. Please advise.
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Hello dkahn,
I was so excited when I saw your posting! I too have done extensive research on the Michael family, as my Grandmother's name was Florence Michael related to the Michael's from Swansea, Wales. I have been researching for about a year, the furthest I can trace back is to David Michael, who married Rachell Griffiths. I'm curious to know if you have any pictures and if you know anything further about David who was born 1727 or Rachell?
Also, how are you related to this family?
Thank you so much for reaching out,
Susan
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hello dhakn
once you have made 3 posts, you will be able to send a private message to a member - click on the letter icon underneath the poster's name. To get your post count up, you can just reply on this post.
:D
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My great grandmother was Annie Teacher. Her mother was Maria Selig whose mother was Hannah Wolff, whose mother was Eddle Hart. So Eddle Hart was my great great, great, great grandmother. I believe she was Lemon Hart's aunt and I think you would be related on the Hart side - ultimately Abraham Hart. Do I have it right?
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Susan, I do see Florence and David Michael...I can go back further but prefer not to post publicly. Please advise...
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I am also a direct descendant of the Harts and Mike would be interested in comparing notes. (I am descended from Eddle Hart, Lemon's aunt as far as I can tell).
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Sorry, I just saw your reply just now. Are you referring to David Michael born 1727 in Germany?