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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Stirlingshire => Topic started by: Gray865 on Sunday 24 April 11 17:49 BST (UK)
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I'm trying to trace the birth certificate of James Boyd b. abt.1800 Cumbernauld. His death certificate shows that he died aged 78 in 1878 at Crookedsheilds, Cambuslang. In 1841and 1851 census he and family were living at Wester Forrester, Cumbernauld (Farmer). His parents named on his death certificate are Robert Boyd and Jane McLaren, in Scotland's People the parents were married in 1818 (on LDS site they have family born from 1819. Can anyone help me?
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Hi Gray865,
If seems a bit odd for his parents to marry 18 years after he was born.
Is it possible that his father had re married or who ever was the informant of James death got it wrong.
In the marriage details of his parents is there a gap in there ages ie is Robert older than Jane by a few years,
Billy.
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Hi Gray,
Something isn't quite right here .......
According to Ancestry's transcription of the 1841 Census, living at West Forest Farm were:
James Boyd, age 38 (born c1803), Farmer
Christian Hay age 35 (born c1806)
John Boyd, age 12 (born c1829)
James Boyd, age 10 (born c1831)
Janet Boyd, age 8 (born c1833)
Joseph Boyd, age 6 (born c1835)
Jean Boyd, age 4 (born c1837)
Christian Boyd, age 2 (born c1839)
Betty Boyd, age 2 (born c1839)
By 1851, Farm now called Wester Forrester ....
James Boyd, age 42 (born c1809), Farmer
James Boyd, age 20 (born c1831)
Janet Boyd, age 18 (born c1833)
Joseph Boyd, age 16 (born c1835)
Jean Boyd, age 14 (born c1837)
Elizabeth (Betty) Boyd, age 12 (born c1839)
Christina (Christian Boyd), age 10 (born c1841)
Agnes Boyd, age 8 (born c1843)
Mary Boyd, age 6 (born c1845)
Ann Boyd, age 3 (born c1848)
By 1861, now at 'Lellsickhills' Cambuslang .... (Ancestry's version of Crookedshields?)
James Boyd, age 61 (born c1800), Farmer
Jean (Jane) Boyd, age 24 (born c1838)
Christina Boyd, age 19 (born c1842)
Agnes Boyd, age 17 (born c1844)
Mary Boyd, age 14 (born c1847)
Ann Boyd, age 12 (born c1849)
Continued .....
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I had a look at the IGI Marriage for Robert Boyd & Jane/Jean McLaren and noticed it was a submitted entry rather than an extracted one, so no substantiating evidence there!!
The only children I could find on the IGI were:
Jean born 10th August 1820
Robert born 30th October 1821 &
Daniel born 7th February 1824
These were extracted entries, so verification of these children's birth could be found on S.P.
There seems to be another Boyd Family living at Mid Forest in 1841:
Robert Boyd, age 40 (born c1801), Wright
Mary Boyd, age 40 (born c1801)
John Boyd, age 20 (born c1821)
Rob Boyd, age 20 (born c1821)
Jean Boyd, age 15 (born c1826)
Anne Boyd, age 16 (born c1825)
Peter Boyd, age 8 (born c1833)
Anne
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There's also on the IGI (Extracted)
John Boyd born 11 Dec 1818 parents Robert Boyd & Jean McLaren
All 4 children found have both submitted and extracted entries with the same information
Mick
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Looking again at the IGI there is
James Boyd born 05 MAR 1802 Cumbernauld, Dunbarton, Scotland
Parents John Boyd and Jean/Jane Waddel (Extracted).
Robert Boyd Bap 08 Dec 1799 has a submitted entry to the same parents.
Mick
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Further information that I have; The death certificate informant was Joseph Boyd (son). Crookedsheild is a neighbouring farm to Lettrickhills Farm Cambuslang. There is a Headstone in Kirkhill Churchyard for James Boyd b. 1800 and goes on to mention his deceased wife Christina Hay. The youngest child Ann Boyd is the connection to my husbands' family. Has there been a mistake made? Where do I go from here?
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If you can, find out when Jane/Jean McLaren was born. if circa 1800 then she won't be James mother.
Mick
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Explaination required on what you mean by 'submitted' 'extracted' records. I'm relatively new to this and hadn't come across this.
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An extracted entry means the information has been 'extracted' or taken from the original Parish Registers and copies of these pages are available from Scotland's People.
A submitted entry means that the information has been 'submitted' by a member of the LDS Church and added to their records - normally this means that there are no existing records which can substantiate the details - i.e. there are no Parish Records available.
Submitted entries ALWAYS have to be treated with caution although now and again, alternative verification can be found.
On the LDS site (the IGI), each entry has the information saying whether an individual entry has been 'extracted' or 'submitted'.
It's just one of the things to look out for when using the IGI, so don't worry - you'll be an 'old hand' in no time and!
Anne :)
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Hi there,
I don't know how late I am in posting this reply, I just found this using a google search.
I may be able to help you.
I am related through his eldest daughter, Janet, and have done a bit of research. I am pretty sure (although not 100%) that he was born on 5th March 1802 to John Boyd and Jean Waddel.
His wife, Christina, was born on 12th October 1806 to William Hay(~1760) and Christina Seaton(~1765).
Hope this helps.
EDIT: Also, Bikermikau, is there any chance you could post an image of the headstone, or even just a transcription if it's easily readable?
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G'day, Welcome to the site.
I think it was Gray865 in Reply #6 who mentioned a Headstone.
MicK
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So it was. My Bad :)
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i am a direct descendant of John Boyd & Jean Waddel
John Boyd & Jean Waddel
Robert Boyd & Jean McLaren
Robert Boyd & Mary-Anne Kennon
Stanley Boyd & Susan Jacob
John Boyd & Jean Waddel lived at West Forrest & Mid Forrest Farm Cumbernaud
Robert Boyd & Mary-Anne Kennon migrated to Australia
I have a letter from James Boyd (Robert Boyd's cousin) who lived at Fergislie Farm Paisley
Johns brother James Boyd who married Christiana Hay moved from Wester Forrest to Cumbusling
Any other information would be greatly appreciated
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Duplicate posting http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=730692.msg6401616#msg6401616
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surely this topic should be in the Dunbartonshire section as that is where Cumbernauld was at that time
check link for the farm with R.Boyd in 1864
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/ordnance-survey-name-books/dunbartonshire-os-name-books-1860/dunbartonshire-volume-05/94
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In reply to the original thread on this page of Gray865.
The contents of my previous comment above is part of the one in the same family which I have a lot of information on.
What I am trying to find out is where John Boyd or married Jean Waddell originally came from as far as the conundrum is concerned I have the answers to this
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i am a direct descendant of John Boyd & Jean Waddel
John Boyd & Jean Waddel lived at West Forrest & Mid Forrest Farm Cumbernaud
Johns brother James Boyd who married Christiana Hay moved from Wester Forrest to Cumbusling
James Boyd (1802-1878) who married Christian Hay was the son, not the brother, of John Boyd who married Jean Waddell.
The family at West Forest in 1841 and Wester Forrest in 1851 are that of James Boyd (1802-1878) and Christian Hay. Christian died after the birth of her daughter Anne in 1847 and before the 1851 census, in which James Boyd (1802-1878) was described as a widower. By 1861 James Boyd (1802-1878) and his daughters Jane, Christina, Agnes, Mary and Ann, and his nephew Robert Hay, were at Lettrickhill Farm, Cambuslang.
James Boyd (1830-1890), son of James Boyd (1802-1878) and Christian Hay, was at Ferguslie Farm, Paisley in 1881 and died there on 8 September 1890. He married Janet Dick but they had no family.
Joseph Boyd (1835-1912), son of James Boyd (1802-1878) and Christian Hay, married Janet Young and succeeded his father at Lettrickhill, where he had 9 of a family.
The Robert Boyd and Mary family at Mid Forest in 1841 is Robert Boyd (1799-1881), son of John Boyd and Jean Waddell, brother of James Boyd (1802-1878) and his second wife Mary Taylor, whom he married in 1828, Jean MacLaren having died. He stayed in Mid Forest for the rest of his life.
There was also a daughter Agnes Boyd (1805-1866) who married Malcolm Brown in 1827 and had 5 of a family. Also, allegedly, a daughter Jean Boyd, dates unknown, who married Thomas Shanks in 1813 and someone Struthers after Thomas' death, but she is proving difficult to pin down with certainty.
I think that Jean Waddell, wife of John Boyd, was a daughter of the Waddells of Magiscroft, but I have yet to find proof of this. If so, I have at least 4 generations of her Waddell forebears.
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Robert Boyd & Jean McLaren of Mid Forrest Farm had a son Robert who supposingly left for America and on his return found that is father had remarried to Mary Taylor and in disgust moved to Australia, where he married Mary Ann Kennon.
I have a hand written letter from James Boyd Ferguslie Farm Paisley cousin of Robert who he describes Roberts sister living in Glasgow under poor circumstances and John who is Robert’s brother was not known of his whereabouts. Agnes Boyd daughter of John & Jean (Waddell) had a son called Malcom that moved to Australia at the same time as Robert. I have more information available if interested.
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Yes, I am interested. If Jean Waddell is one of the Magiscroft family then all these Boyds are related to me. I will send you a PM.
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I have a hand written letter from James Boyd Ferguslie Farm Paisley cousin of Robert who he describes Roberts sister living in Glasgow under poor circumstances and John who is Robert’s brother was not known of his whereabouts.
John Boyd (1818-1872), son of Robert Boyd (1799-1881) and Jean MacLaren, married Margaret Aitken in 1843 and they both died in Airdrie. They had three known children.
I surmised that the youngest brother, Daniel Boyd (b 1824) must have died in childhood, as he does not seem to be in any census and the absence of any mention of him in the letter you have from James Boyd in Ferguslie to Robert Boyd in Australia seems to support this.
In which part of Australia did Robert Boyd (b 1821) and Malcolm Brown (b 1829) live?
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There is a Headstone in Kirkhill Churchyard for James Boyd b. 1800 and goes on to mention his deceased wife Christina Hay.
Which Kirkhill is this? There are several places named Kirkhill.
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His wife, Christina, was born on 12th October 1806 to William Hay(~1760) and Christina Seaton(~1765).
I see that Christian, daughter of William Hay and Christian Seaton, was baptised in Barony, Lanarkshire.
What is your evidence for this Christian Hay being the wife of James Boyd (1802-1878)? Their marriage just says that they were both in Cumbernauld, and the 1841 census says that Christian Hay or Boyd was born in Dunbartonshire.
Also they had no son named William, and it was their fourth daughter who was named Christian. They named their first son John and second daughter Jean, which fits the traditional naming pattern. Their first daughter was named Janet and their second son James, suggesting that Christian's parents might have been James and Janet.
Their fourth son was named Joseph. I note with interest that James Hay and Janet Scott had a son named Joseph, born in Cumbernauld in 1799, and I speculate that Christian Hay, wife of James Boyd (1802-1878) was an unrecorded sister of this Joseph, and daughter of James Hay and Janet Scott.
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Hi, re. Kirkhill Churchyard it is in Cambuslang. I'll have to pull out my Boyd paperwork to check what information that I have. Gray865
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Re the Boyd family at 1861.
The address at 1861 is not a mistrancription of Crookedshields, it's Letterick /Letterick Hill
These neighbouring farms were probably owned and leased by The Duke of Hamilton.
They were sited just inside the Cambuslang border at the 3 way point where Cambuslang merges with Blantyre and East Kilbride
My ancestors farmed at Crookedshields until the end of 1861
If the Boyds moved into this farm, it will have been after 1863
James Boyd left a will which is found on SP.
It should indicate if he was a tenant farmer or owner.
Daughter Jane Boyd daughter of James Boyd and Christina Hay married another of my relatives in 1863.
She was still living at Letterick when she married.
Jane moved to Hamilton, where she died in 1924 aged 87yrs
Further newspaper reports for Crookedshields show that after the death of James Boyd, it was his daughter and son in law, William Craig who lived here.
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Thank you, Anne!
James Boyd and family were in Cumbernauld until at least the 1851 census, and in 1861 they were in Lettrickhill.
We have a copy of the will of James Boyd. It is very uninformative - he left a liferent to his wife, then to his brother Joseph, after whose death the estate was to be divided among Joseph's children, none of whom are named. Joseph's will is equally uninformative.
Thank you also for pointing me at Jane's and Mary's marriages and deaths. Only John, Bethea/Elizabeth, Agnes and Anne to find now.
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Jane seems to have left a will too.
It's on my list of "To Do" things for my GRO visit next week.
It may provide info on the wherabouts of her sons
I found marriages and deaths for most of her children but, a couple of them vanished off the face of the earth at 1881 or 1891
At least 2 sons were lawyers.
I keep my family tree info private but, if you wish to PM me, I can provide you with quite a bit of info relating to marriages etc for other children of Jane and her husband John Henderson.
It will save you looking!
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Hang on Forfarian...Forfarian,
Are you still loking for Ann/Annie's marriage?
She is in my tree only as a sibling of Jane.
If I click on Annie the first hint that pops up on Ancestry is her 1873 marriage cert to John Lennox of Glassford ...which is attached to a public tree!
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Ah, I was wondering if that was who she married. Thank you.
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Robert Boyd & Jean McLaren of Mid Forrest Farm had a son Robert who supposingly left for America and on his return found that is father had remarried to Mary Taylor and in disgust moved to Australia, where he married Mary Ann Kennon.
Nice story, but it won't wash.
Robert Boyd, son of Robert Boyd and Jean McLaren, was born on 30 October 1821. His widowed father married Mary Taylor on 24 January 1828, when young Robert was just 6 years 2 months and 25 days old.
Young Robert was still in the household of his father and stepmother 13 years later, on 7 June 1841.
His obituary in 1908 describes him as 'a colonist of nearly 50 years' standing', but as he married Mary Ann K*nn*n (spellings of her name vary) in 1857 in Victoria, he had clearly been in Australia for at least 50 and possibly over 51 years.
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Agnes Boyd daughter of John & Jean (Waddell) had a son called Malcom that moved to Australia at the same time as Robert. I have more information available if interested.
According to his death certificate Malcolm Brown, born 1829, son of Malcolm Brown and Agnes Boyd, died in Old Monkland in 1911. He was married to Susanna Thom Brownlie, who died in Old Monkland in 1897. They had seven of a family, all born in Old Monkland, and he was in Old Monkland in every census from 1861 to 1901.
I would be very interested in any more information you have about this.
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Hi folks and in particular @Gray865
I have just quickly read thru the last 4 pages but may have some rough info that will be of use, hopefully....
I rent one of the Byres in Crookedshields Farm and use it to store some old vehicles.
The current owner has had the property since roughly 1983 and knows nothing of its history apart from that it was owned by the MOD prior to him.
What may be of more interest however is the name Boyd.
A Boyd family still work all the neighbouring farmland (Crookedshields hasn't been a farm for about 50 years) but to my knowledge had no connection with Crookedshields. However they are mentioned on a local history page in relation to a tolbooth around a mile away from where the current Boyds do their farming.
https://blantyreproject.com/2015/06/stoneymeadow-toll-paterson-boyd-farm/
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According to the 1851 census Stevenson Boyd, 39, was born in Ireland, as were his wife Margaret, 25, and their children Isabella, 8; William,5; and Robert, 3. Two more children, Hugh, 2; and John, one month, were born in Cambuslang.
The death of Stephenson Boyd, 65, was registered in Cambuslang in 1878, mother's maiden surname Stephenson.
So it does not look as if he is closely connected to the Boyd family from Cumbernauld.
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His wife, Christina, was born on 12th October 1806 to William Hay(~1760) and Christina Seaton(~1765).
No, sorry, that's definitely not the right Christi* Hay.
Christina Hay, widow of Malcolm Marr, daughter of William Hay and Christina Hay MS Seton, died in Glasgow in 1868. See death certificate at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk.
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There are a few Boyds in Cumbernauld Parish burial ground, here are the MI's for the male names.
"Erected by Peter Boyd in memory of his parents Robert Boyd and Mary Taylor". (No dates, sorry!).
The adjacent stone to the above -
"Erected by Peter Boyd in memory of his wife Mary Jarvie who died 5th March 1888".
There is an older stone on this plot which may well be an earlier generation of Boyd's. Unfortunately it only has initials.
"1826 RB & MA. IG & IC. RA & AG 1746".
One more stone with a male Boyd -
"Robert Boyd died 4th June 1897 aged 64 years. His wife Louisa Crawford died (........) 1889 aged 50 years. Their children, Barbara died 29th November 1865 aged 5 years. Robert Died 10th March 1870 aged 8 months and Louisa died 6th April 1873 aged 11 days".
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Peter Boyd, husband of Mary Jarvie, was the son of Robert Boyd and Mary Taylor. He was born 1 August 1831 and died 6 December 1904, both at Mid(dle) For(r)rest.
Mary Jarvie was born in Falkirk about 1872/1828. Her marriage certificate does not name her parents, and her death certificate names her father as James Jarvie but doesn't give her mother's name.
Peter Boyd and Mary Jarvie had one child, a son who did not live long enough to be given a name.
Robert Boyd who died in 1897 in Falkirk was the son of William Boyd and Barbara Somerville. I am not aware of his connection, if any, with the family of John Boyd and Jean Waddell, but it is possible that William Boyd was an unrecorded son of theirs.