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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: j9dw on Wednesday 27 April 11 13:07 BST (UK)
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Hi, I'm searching for the marriage of the parents of Reine V CUQUEMELLE who was born in Paris in about 1861. Her mother was Reine as well, but I've no idea who her father was (other than being Monsieur CUQUEMELLE).
Perhaps the info would be in Renie V's baptism record, but I've no idea how to go about searching for French baptism records either.
They came to the UK 1861 & 1869. I've found the family in 1881, 91 & 1901, but Reine (the Mum) was already widowed by then & I'm having trouble finding them in 1871, I expect that'll be down to a transcription error. In 1871 they would probably have ben in Clerkenwell or Staffordshire.
Sorry it's a bit empty of substance, but can anyone help?
Thanks
Janine
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(civil) Records from Paris are online here:
http://canadp-archivesenligne.paris.fr/
It will already be a bit tricky as you don't know the area (arrondissement) - you'll have to look at the indexes for each arrondissement in turn. If she was born in Paris (and not one of the nearby communes that are part of the greater "Paris" area, for which the records are separate) she should turn up there.
I think in 1871 they are at RG10/3038 78/48 (Harbourne, Worcestershire)
Adele "Cregnell", 30, (widowed)
Victoria, 10
Charles, 8
Adele, 2
All listed as b. Paris, although Adele Jr is probably the Adele Caroline whose birth is registered in Clerkenwell - her birth certificate would help by giving you the mother's maiden name, father's name and occupation, etc.
It is common to find French emigrants swapping between their first names - I presume she was Reine Victoria and her mother might be Reine Adele/Adele Reine.
freebmd.rootsweb.com - if you search on Cuqu* for the surname you can find a likely death for the father "Alfred Cuqu_melle", aged 40, d. 1869 in Westminster.
For earlier records in Paris you'll run into trouble due to the destruction of many records in 1871 (the Hôtel de Ville was set on fire), which means that pre-1860 records are reconstructed from a mix of sources and some do not survive.
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Wow! Thank you so much. It never occurred to me that Reine, the mother, would have Adele as a middle name, but it makes perfect sense, believe it or not, I'd searched for every Reine, Rene, Raine & Rain born in France with any surname, but with no luck.
Alfred Cuqu_melle is likely as Reine (the mother) was born around 1842 (according to the censuses) so the age would fit, I didn't think of searching in the free BMD for mis-spellings, I must be tired! Mind you, Reine had another daugter, after Adele, in around 1872 in Staffordshire, naughty Reine lol.
Thanks again, that gives me more structure for my searches, now I'll go & find out what happened to Victoria & Charles; that might give me more hints.
Janine
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I have searched the Paris records for around the same time, late 1860s in my case. Like you I had no idea of the arrondissement, but found the records clear and easy to use. I was assisted too by a scarce surname Feuvrier, and it looks as though you will have a similar advantage.
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Note that coverage of French BMDs is very patchy and dependant on area; you might find everything has been indexed or that the archives for the area you want to look at don't even have a webpage.
Took a quick look on the Paris Archives for you, her birth can be found:
9 Jan 1861, 13th arrondissement
Reine Victorine, daughter of Louis Alfred Cuquemelle, aged 32, and his wife Reine Warnier, 21
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Hi Jorose, the people here, on Rootschat, never fail to amaze me!
Thank you so much for looking for me; I'd started, but only got about half way through (I think).
Redroger, I've come acrosss the name Feuvrier or LeFeuvrier in my own falily tree in Jersey, Channel Isles, but on a disdtat branch.
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I wiah I'd paid attention at school, in French!
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There's a nice genealogical word list here which might help some.
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/RG/Guide/WLFrench.ASP
Luckily the format of the French records is reasonably consistent so it won't take too long to get familiar with the common words. The "tables décennales" are the indexes, have a look through those first. Since the name isn't that common it would be worth checking all the Cuquemelle/Cuquemel and Warnier names you can find for the 1860s to see if your family get a mention anywhere (e.g. as witnesses to a birth, marriage, or death).
The 1859 and before records are up but just as indexes (I think they do intend to put the actual records up eventually but I can't find the page again where they were talking about timescales).
https://www.familysearch.org/
does have a possible baptism for Louis Alfred Cuquemelle, bap. St-Sulpice, Paris in 1828 and various indexed records for his family. If this is him, his parents' marriage is indexed as in Saint-Germain-En-Laye - very close to Paris (wikipedia describes it as being part of the "western suburbs" of the city) but officially part of Yvelines department, so the records are at http://www.yvelines.fr/archives/archives/accueilbase.htm
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The Jersey link to Feuvrier interests me, though the birth of my distant relative was in Paris, the family were clock makers who oddly originate nr. Switzerland.
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The Jersey link to Feuvrier interests me, though the birth of my distant relative was in Paris, the family were clock makers who oddly originate nr. Switzerland.
Redroger, I'm so sorry, I was wrong. It's a long time since I've been on that branch of the tree & I'm afraid the name isn't Feuvrier; I was thinking of Le Fevre.
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There's a nice genealogical word list here which might help some.
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/RG/Guide/WLFrench.ASP
[..........]
The 1859 and before records are up but just as indexes (I think they do intend to put the actual records up eventually but I can't find the page again where they were talking about timescales).
https://www.familysearch.org/
does have a possible baptism for Louis Alfred Cuquemelle, bap. St-Sulpice, Paris in 1828 and various indexed records for his family. If this is him, his parents' marriage is indexed as in Saint-Germain-En-Laye - very close to Paris (wikipedia describes it as being part of the "western suburbs" of the city) but officially part of Yvelines department, so the records are at http://www.yvelines.fr/archives/archives/accueilbase.htm
I always forget about familysearch.org! Thank you for reminding me & thanks for the other links.
Janine
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Thanks anyway, Le Fevre is not uncommon in England, in parts of Yorkshire unfortunately to the bearers it is pronounced as Fever.
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Hi
What a brilliant resource the Paris registration is!
thank you very much!
Best wishes
Emms
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Victoria Cuquemelle is also an ancestor of mine so I was really pleased to come across this conversation! Thanks to the advice on here I've been able to make much more progress than I would have done otherwise!
Janine - I've had some luck tracing Louis Alfred Cuquemelle's family but have hit a brick wall with Reine Warnier. I would love to know if you got any further tracing her background?
Many thanks
Karen
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Hi Karen :)
Welcome to Rootschat!
You've come to the right place for help. Briiliant news you;ve made progress. If you have one more post - like replying to mine, you can swop more information with Janine in a personal message too, for instance 9if it's too rrecent to publish on the board.
- Just hover and click pon the icon on the lefvt of one of her posts, then it's a bit like posting.
Welcome again.
Best wishes
Emms :)
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Just a question to which I should know the answer, How far back do the French records go as I have possible Hugenots in my tree in the 18th century and earlier?
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Date of first record epends on location.
Civil records start around 1793 (early years are sometimes a bit dodgy). Before that you have parish records.
Catholic church records, for the parishes I'm interested in the Vendee department, vary in starting dates - 1650, 1688, occasionally going back to the late 1500s. (often there will be damage/gaps, of course). There is one for which the early records seem to have been lost leaving that line hanging around in the mid-1700s.
Protestant records they also have online - earliest 1636. Depending on the location again - there may be some areas for which you go back before 1600 (but probably not far before).
On the side of Reine Warnier, an important document to locate would be the marriage to Louis Alfred Cuquemelle.
I did find a possible birth - Reine Warnier, 21 April 1841 - in the Paris documents, but this is part of the "reconstructed" records so no further info on the index than that (there should be more info but not online, I think).
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Many thanks indeed. My possible Hugenot ancestors "Moule" were in Cambridgeshire in the 18th century, so if they were Hugenot it's sometime back.
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Just registered !not sure what i am doing but interested in links to reine cuquemelle.her daughter Marie was my great grandmother.Reine died in 1926 in birmingham.
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Reine Victorine Cuquemelle was my great grandmother; Reine Cuquemelle was my great great grandmother. She was married (on 16.10.1858) to Louis Alfred Cuquemelle, born 05.09.28, died 11.01.1869 in Clerkenwell.
I'd be very interested to here from 'Janine' or 'Reine' (to whom I must be related) but as this is my first post it would have to be via the forum.
John1789
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Hi John,
Welcome to RootsChat, sadly Reine's email address is not working and I have not been able to find a few one for her :'(
Lets hope that Janine gets in touch soon.
Regards
Sarah :)
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Reine Victorine Cuquemelle was my great grandmother; Reine Cuquemelle was my great great grandmother. She was married (on 16.10.1858) to Louis Alfred Cuquemelle, born 05.09.28, died 11.01.1869 in Clerkenwell.
I'd be very interested to here from 'Janine' or 'Reine' (to whom I must be related) but as this is my first post it would have to be via the forum.
John1789
Yeah Reine Cuquemelle is also my great great great grandmother. It would be interesting to hear from you john
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Cuquemelle married my great great grandfather my great aunt was they're daughter so fascinating
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Hello I know this was written some time ago , since starting my tree I have found out my great great grandfather Frederick Watson married a cuquemelle they had a daughter my great nan Ethel Watson . Does any one have any information on why the cuquemelle family left Paris in the first place
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Hi Dawn
Re Cuquemelle
I too would like to know why they left France. All I can tell you - if you don't know already -is the date - 1862. I know this because I have a document headed 'Passeport a l'Interieur' issued 28th Feb 1862 for the safe conduct of Reine Cuquemelle and her daughter Victorine, aged 13 months, from Paris to Boulogne. Presumably her husband had already moved to England.
Incidentally, Ethel Watson was my great aunt. As far as I'm aware I never met her. I have tried to trace her on the 1911 census. Would be interested to know if her married name was Guest?
John
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Have you tried to find them on a passengers list from Boulogne to England?
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https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
If you type cuquemelle "all types" "all counties" you find many Cuquemelles in England , and a Reine Cuquemelle who died 1926 district Birmingham
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https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS3B-P3RR-B?i=986&cat=142547
The Louis Alfred CUQUEMELLE born in Paris on September 5th 1828 is a son of Jean Georges Marie CUQUEMELLE, serrurier en bâtiments, 36 years old, and his wife Adélaïde MICHAUX 35 years old, married in Saint-Germain-en-Laye in 1821
http://archives.yvelines.fr/arkotheque/visionneuse/visionneuse.php?arko=YTo2OntzOjQ6ImRhdGUiO3M6MTA6IjIwMTgtMDItMDkiO3M6MTA6InR5cGVfZm9uZHMiO3M6MTE6ImFya29fc2VyaWVsIjtzOjQ6InJlZjEiO2k6MTtzOjQ6InJlZjIiO2k6NTk2NztzOjE2OiJ2aXNpb25uZXVzZV9odG1sIjtiOjE7czoyMToidmlzaW9ubmV1c2VfaHRtbF9tb2RlIjtzOjQ6InByb2QiO30=#uielem_move=323.683349609375%2C74&uielem_islocked=0&uielem_zoom=86&uielem_brightness=0&uielem_contrast=0&uielem_isinverted=0&uielem_rotate=F
Frame 26
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https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS3B-5S3R-9?i=1499&cat=142547
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Where did Alfred Louis CUQUEMELLE marry in 1858 ? Is the date given reliable ?
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https://www.eclatdebois.org/recherche_geneanet.php?nom=CUQUEMELLE&prenom=Louis+Alfred
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Louis Alfred Cuquemelle married on 16th October, 1858, in the, 19th arrondissement.
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Thank you.
I am not sure they reconstructed it. What's your source ?
I find a reconstructed marriage record for another son of Jean Georges Marie CUQUEMELLE and Adélaïde MICHAUX, Louis Joseph CUQUEMELLE (31/MAY/1851)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSSK-11XF?i=161&cat=124051
There is a marriage contract (27/MAY/1851 Maître DENTEND notaire à Paris)
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Adélaïde MICHAUX had two siblings, Paul MICHAUD, born on March 5th 1796 in Saint-Germain-en-Laye, and Louise Pauline MICHAULT, born on November 10th 1800, same place.
Their maternal grandfather is Barthélemy MICHAULT, 71 years old in 1800. He is a shoemaker.
He passed away in 1806 at the age of 76. Barthélemy MICHAUX was a widower of Genevieve GUERNEAU. The declaration was made by his son Louis François MICHAUX on September 25th 1806 (Barthélemy MICHAUX died the same day) in Saint-Germain-en-Laye.
Louis François MICHAU was born on September 18th 1771 in Saint-Germain-en-Laye. His mother is Marie Geneviève GARNAULT.
http://archives.yvelines.fr/arkotheque/visionneuse/visionneuse.php?arko=YTo2OntzOjQ6ImRhdGUiO3M6MTA6IjIwMTgtMDItMTYiO3M6MTA6InR5cGVfZm9uZHMiO3M6MTE6ImFya29fc2VyaWVsIjtzOjQ6InJlZjEiO2k6MTtzOjQ6InJlZjIiO2k6NTI2MDtzOjE2OiJ2aXNpb25uZXVzZV9odG1sIjtiOjE7czoyMToidmlzaW9ubmV1c2VfaHRtbF9tb2RlIjtzOjQ6InByb2QiO30=#uielem_move=340%2C-435&uielem_islocked=0&uielem_zoom=99&uielem_brightness=0&uielem_contrast=0&uielem_isinverted=0&uielem_rotate=F
Frame 79
His parents got married in the same city on July 6th 1762
http://archives.yvelines.fr/arkotheque/visionneuse/visionneuse.php?arko=YTo2OntzOjQ6ImRhdGUiO3M6MTA6IjIwMTgtMDItMTYiO3M6MTA6InR5cGVfZm9uZHMiO3M6MTE6ImFya29fc2VyaWVsIjtzOjQ6InJlZjEiO2k6MTtzOjQ6InJlZjIiO2k6MzgzOTtzOjE2OiJ2aXNpb25uZXVzZV9odG1sIjtiOjE7czoyMToidmlzaW9ubmV1c2VfaHRtbF9tb2RlIjtzOjQ6InByb2QiO30=#uielem_move=124%2C-766&uielem_islocked=0&uielem_zoom=121&uielem_brightness=0&uielem_contrast=0&uielem_isinverted=0&uielem_rotate=F
Frame 45
Parents Etienne MICHAUX and Marie FOSSE
Louis GARNOT and Marie Ursulle FOUCART
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Estienne MICHAUD married Marie FOCE in 1704
http://archives.yvelines.fr/arkotheque/visionneuse/visionneuse.php?arko=YTo2OntzOjQ6ImRhdGUiO3M6MTA6IjIwMTgtMDItMTYiO3M6MTA6InR5cGVfZm9uZHMiO3M6MTE6ImFya29fc2VyaWVsIjtzOjQ6InJlZjEiO2k6MTtzOjQ6InJlZjIiO2k6NjMwMDtzOjE2OiJ2aXNpb25uZXVzZV9odG1sIjtiOjE7czoyMToidmlzaW9ubmV1c2VfaHRtbF9tb2RlIjtzOjQ6InByb2QiO30=#uielem_move=-196%2C-399&uielem_islocked=0&uielem_zoom=95&uielem_brightness=0&uielem_contrast=0&uielem_isinverted=0&uielem_rotate=F
Frame 23
He is a native of La Châtre-le-Vicomte, diocèse de Bourges (nowadays https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Ch%C3%A2tre-Langlin). She is from Saint-Germain-en-Laye.
Parents + Mathurin MICHAUD and Marguerite JANOT.
and Nicolas FOCE and Marie DA...
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https://gw.geneanet.org/ricant1?lang=fr&p=etienne&n=michaux
and
https://gw.geneanet.org/pyl?n=fosse&oc=1&p=marie
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Re Cuquemelle
Thanks for all the information on the Cuquemelle and Michaux families very interesting.
Louis Alfred Cuquemelle was one of my great, great grandfathers. I have a document which I take to be the original, or 'an original copy' of, the marriage certificate of L A Cuquemelle and Reine Warnier on 16th October 1858. This took place in the (old) 12th arrondissement - unfortunately I previously misread the smudged number on the official stamp as '19th' arrondissement, but at the top of the page it clearly says 'le marie du douzieme arrondissement'. (Also, I see that there were only 12 arrondissements until 1860).
He appears to have served in the French army from 1849 to 1856, spending time in Africa and the Crimean War.
At some point he moved to London - I wish I knew why - followed in February 1862 by his wife and 13 month old daughter (my great grandmother) Victorine. (I have the Passeport a l'Interieur.)
Hope this is of interest.
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and the document clearly states that he is the child of Jean Georges Marie CUQUEMELLE and Adélaïde MICHAUX, born in 1828, right ?
Who are the parents of the bride ?
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No, you're wrong there, the document is a straightforward certification of the marriage, it does not give details of either set of parents.
I do, however, have a document headed 'Conge de Liberation' for Louis Alfred Cuquemelle which says that he is the son of Jean Georges Marie and the late Adelaide Michaux and that he was born 5th Sept 1828.
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That's why I asked.
I wanted to be sure that we got the right Louis Alfred CUQUEMELLE.
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https://www.eclatdebois.org/recherche_geneanet.php?nom=CUQUEMELLE
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After alot of research I believe I have found the reason Louis Alfred Cuquemelle moved to England. I found that his Father in Law Joseph Warner. Father of his wife Reine Warnier also resided in Birmingham.
I found that the father in Law Joseph was born in 1813. It seems he got married in 1833 to a presumably French lady named Jeanne Guerin in Paris. Then for whatever reason (this I havent found out) he got married again to a lady named Elisabeth Thomas in 1851 in Paris. This lady's name being an English name can only make me assume he moved to England to be with her. With his daughter, her husband and their children later following.
Louis was a brass maker. His wife Reine and her father Joseph were both Lamp makers. Louis died at the age of 40 in the St James area of Westminster, which was an extremely affluent area.