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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: 85jbk on Saturday 30 April 11 12:38 BST (UK)
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Catherine Mary O'Halloran married Henry Joseph French 1862, Registration # on the Vict BDM was #1765. I do not have the cert.
They went on to have many children all born in Benalla,Victoria,Australia.
1. Mary Ann b 1864 d1866
2. Fran b 1866
3. Catherine b 1868
4. Margaret b 1870
5. Henry Joseph b 1872
6. Mary b 1874
7. Teresa b 1876 d 1876
8. John William b 1878
There is also a death for a Catherine French, aged 39 in 1885 #4216 on the Victorian BDM registrars. Father is listed as Pat O'Halloran and Mother is Catherine Canavan.
Have any of the rootschaters researched this family and are both Catherines one of the same?
Thanks and look forward to your help
85jbk
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Considering that her death was registered in the Benalla & she is buried with Henry their MI proves that it is her :)
Their burial details & a photograph of their grave is available here:
http://www.benallacemetery.com/cemetery/surname/french/2850
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Thank You Merlin. The Clare on The Headstone is fantastic! BUT this still doesnt prove anything.
Now this is where it gets tricky as I am trying to prove if this Catherine is in fact my missing Mary!
Three Sisters, Mary 28yrs, Bridget 22 yrs and Ellen 21 yrs all came from Ireland in 1854 aboard the China to Australia. With their Brother Paul following later..
Their Father John O'Halloran listed as a Corn & Butter dealer had died sometime before they Left Ireland with their Mother Catherine living in Limerick.
We have established that Bridget first married William Sheriff then John Salter. Ellen married John French( and this is why I suspect perhaps Catherine and Henry are the ones, with Henry and John being related) and Paul married Margaret Hernchen. I might mention all these families lived around the Benalla,Violet Town,Tamleugh,Gowangardie townships.
I have unsucessfully tried to find Mary with many certificates later and still no trace of her.
I got to thinking that this Catherine listed marrying to Henry French was a huge possibility but more of a coincedence with her name being Catherine Mary. The thing that throws me is her mother is listed as Catherine Canavan and her Father Pat O'Halloran and not John O'Halloran & Catherine O'Brien(Ryan) as her sisters certificates list.
Is this me grasping at straws or a huge possibility
I look forward to your thoughts... confused and wanting answers ???
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Thank You Merlin. The Clare on The Headstone is fantastic! BUT this still doesnt prove anything.
Your question was to prove that the Catherine who married Henry was the death registered in 1885 which is exactly what I gave you in my reply.
Their marriage registration on the index does not name her as Catherine Mary in fact the only time I can see the name Mary used is on one of the children's births (I haven't checked any of the childrens deaths yet).
Her marriage certificate could possibly hold clues to what you are looking for, they are more reliable than death certificates.
If you purchase the marriage certificate it will contain such information as:
Date and place of marriage
Name and surnames
Conjugal condition, whether bachelor or spinster, widow or widower
Stating date of deceased of former wife or husband
Children by each former marriage
Birthplace
Occupation
Age
Residence present and usual
Parent's names of each party including mother's maiden name and occupation of father
Signatures of the parties and witnesses
Signature of Minister
Prior to 1963 the date of termination of previous marriages of the parties is also shown
You can purchase online & download it immediately to your computer for a cost of $17.50 here:
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage
Apart from that we can always start a search to see if we can pull it together in some other way.
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There is a probate file for Catherine's husband Henry Joseph FRENCH who died 20 Mar 1896:
http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/indexes/index_search.asp?searchid=54
Death:
FRENCH Hy Jos age 61yrs d. 1896 BENALLA #523
Father: French Jno Wm
Cath Sarah UNKNOWN
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If your Mary was 28yo when she arrived in 1854 = born c1826.
You suspect that she married as Catherine in 1862 that would make her 36yo at marriage & 59yo at death if Mary & Catherine were the same person.
The death of Catherine in the index & on the headstone clearly shows that Catherine was born 1846 & 39yo when she died.
Do you still think it possible to be the same person?
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Oh Yes Merlin you are indeed correct and I thank you for your prompt and informative reply.
I apoligize if this read any other way :-[
This was me thinking out loud. I guess what I really should have said was it was great to see Clare mentioned on the headstone as the girls Mary Bridget Ellen and brother Paul all came from an Area in Ireland, Clare. But this wasnt to prove they were related or from the same family.
I will try your first suggestion of dowloading a copy of the marriage cert but failing this can we go with your second suggestion of starting a search.
Thanks for the added probate of Catherines Husband.
85jbk
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In reply to your dates on Catherine/Mary, yes I can see your point and I kept telling myself the same thing but it is not the first time I have had certain kin tell porkies on their ages.
Where do I go from here give up and start again?
85jbk
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Yes, many of them did tell 'porkies' just as many of the immigration records have errors on them.
There are many Mary O'HALLORAN marriages on the index from Ireland & to possibly define which one could be her would be to go through all the deaths & hope that her parents names are listed & correctly at that.
It's up to you, you can purchase the marriage certificate of Catherine to prove either way whether it's the same person possibly with clues to other members of your Mary's family appearing on it or we go the long way around & see what turns up :)
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Hi 85jbk & Merlin
I looked at this thread because of the FRENCH surname, just to make sure you weren't mixed up with the French in my Blue family. Which you aren't, obviously.
I just have a comment, re jbk's query about Catherine Mary's father's name.
Many Irish were known as Paddy, irrespective of their actual name. This would translate as Pat, to someone who didn't know her family intimately, when giving formal info for the death certificate.
Of course, the similarity of other names might be just that. As Merlin says, there are many Mary O'Halloran listings to choose from, too.
Good luck!
Dawn M
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Hi 85jbk,
I would also question whether you have the correct immigration record. Ellen, Bridget and Mary HALLORAN who emigrated to New South Wales on the China were from County Limerick, not Clare, and I see marriages under these three names in NSW in the following two years. These are all very common names so it is only speculation to say that they are the same girls.
What documentation do you have that names your Ellen and Bridget's parents?
The relationship between Bridget O'HALLORAN/SHERRIF and John SALTER is possibly questionable. I don't see a marriage for them ??? I do see a John and Bridget SALTER emigrating in 1854. This Bridget was from Co. Cavan, aged 25, maiden surname SMITH, previously married to William WILLIAMS. It may be their tribe of children born in NSW.
Debra :)
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The girls marriages in VIC have so far eluded me ??? But still searching...
I can see a death for an Ellen FRENCH in VIC, which atm doesn't really prove anything :-\
FRENCH Ellen age 70yrs d. 1903 P MELB #7182
Father: Ohalloran Jno
Mother: Cath UNKNOWN
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In reply to Merlin: yes I had started to obtain marriage certs of Mary to various different parties but so far none that have proved to be correct. i think I will start by obtaining the marriage cert online for Catherine And Henry.
Hello BillyBlue, thank you for your input and comments.
Dundee, thank you also for your comments.
Both Death Certificates of the girls which state parents names and occ of father. Bridgets marriage cert states details as well.
Bridget maried William Sheriff 10 August 1857 St Marys Sydney.
Bridget is supposed to have married John Salter in the Murrumburrah region on 3 January 1864 but to date teir is no marriage cert. Very complex families this lot but probably like many of the day back then.
85jbk
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Try New South Wales
Mary O'Halloran (Halloran) to Patrick Hogan 23 August 1866 at Yass Reg#03447... Dont think this is her!
Bridget O'Halloran to William Sheriff 10 August 1857 at St.Marys, Sydney,reg#640
Bridget is supposed to have married John Salter on 3 January 1864 at Murrumburrah, to date no record has been found on this.
Ellen married to John French 2 April 1855 St Marys Sydney Reg#V1855515138
Paul married Margaret Henchen 24th July 1858 Benalla, Victoria
85jbk
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Marriage Cert Results of Henry Joseph French & Catherine O'Halloran married 22 May 1862 at Beechworth,Victoria, Australia, Registration #1765.
Henry Joseph French,Bachelor born at Co Kent, Farmer,24 of Benalla. Father William French,Publican and Mother Mary Freeman/Foreman.
Catherine O'Halloran,Spinster, born at Co Clare,living with Parents,20, of Benalla. Father Patrick O'Halloran farmer and Catherine Kanavan. Parents gave their consent to the marriage.
I guess this confirms this is not my girl giving she was living with her parents!!!!
85 jbk
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I have read your postings this morning, for the first time, with interest, and will reply to you later today in detail.
Ellen French (nee O'Halloran) was my g,g grandmother who came out on the "China" with her two sisters Bridget and Mary.
I am going out this morning but will come back to you today.
Pam...Sydney
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85JBK
I replied to you privately a couple of days ago.
Pam...Sydney
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Hello Vabre
You did message me and I would kindly like to thank you.
I will contact you later on this evening.
85jbk
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Hello
I know that this is an old posting and I don't mean to put a spanner in the works.
My research shows that the O'Halloran family came out to Melbourne under the name Halloran on the ship Poictiers in 1854. Passengers on the manifest included
Ann, aged 14
Bridget, aged 17
James, under 1 year
Kate (Catherine?), aged 11
Margaret, aged 9
Patrick, aged 7
The parents were Patrick Halloran aged 40 and Catherine Halloran aged 39. My research shows that Catherine (Kinnavane or Kannavane) and Patrick were married in 1836 at Sixmilebridge about 10kms south of Quin. My interest has been in Ann, baptised at Quin in August 1839. She married a Patrick MacGillicuddy. Later death records show Catherine's maiden name as Kannavan
I think our major conflict seems to me to be in the shipping records. However my Patrick was born about 1815 and not late 1790s as other show?? Which one of us is right is the big question. Happy to share information
Ron
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Hi guys.
Yes, I'm descended from Ellen O'Halloran who emigrated with her sisters Mary and Bridget.
I also find it intriguing with the French/O'Halloran connection occurring twice with the families ending up in the same area of Victoria. I'm sure there is a connection, but I have not been able to find it as yet. I would love to know if anyone can update me on this situation. :)
The other thing I want to mention is that Mary, died a few months after arriving in Sydney. She died from the heat which brought an apopolexy. The doctor surmised that she had a heart condition that was exasperated by the heat.
cheers
kerri.