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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Sussex => England => Sussex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Jasmin6877 on Friday 06 May 11 21:40 BST (UK)
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Am trying to find any info re Sara Fleet (?) and George Hutchings (marriage must have taken place 1815 - 1837). Their son George Hutchings was born in Chichester in 1837.
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Hi,welcome to Rootschat
Family Search have a Sarah Fleet
Birth:
06 NOV 1823
Christening:
06 DEC 1823 Presbyterian, Chichester, Sussex, England
Parents Francis Fleet and Mary
It is an extracted record
Jan
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If this is the correct Sarah she would only be c. 14 yrs of age when George was born???
Suz
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Hi Jasmin
Welcome from me too.
From the Sussex Marriage Index George Hutching married FRANCES FLEET
24 th June 1837 at Westhampnett,West Sussex
Hope this helps
Kind Regards
omega
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The family are in Westhampnett for both 1841, when there is also a John Hutchins with them, (Brother?) and 1851 census. George is born Upper Waltham c 1813. He is an ag lab. Frances/Fanny is born Eastergate c1817.
Later children are Thomas c1839, Henry 1842, William 1845 all born Westerton.
HO107 1100 9/7 12
HO107 1652 398 15
Andrea
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Like Andrea,i took a look at the census.
I could`nt find Frances baptisum on SFHG,so looked on Familysearch(Beta)
Frances Fleet
10 Apr 1814,Eastergate,daughter of George & Elizabeth
Frances Fleet
3 Nov 1816,Eastergate,daughter of Elizabeth
I`m useless with Familysearch,have no idea if the above is Submitted or Extracted
omega
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Eastergate registers are on the IGI so I assume both those baptisms are extracted records. Judging from her age in 1851 she is more likely to be the 1816 one but it would be worth looking at the original registers to check if either of those died young.
George Fleet married Elizabeth Alldridge in Eastergate 28 May 1807.
Andrea
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Think i must have left my brain in bed this morning ???
From the SFHG
The Frances baptised 1814 extra info
Dad George,Militiaman.
Frances 1816
No fathers name,but Elizabeth Soldiers Wife .
Could these Frances be the same Frances?.
omega
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That makes it even more likely that the first one died young. Looking at the original register will help I'm sure.
However, to get back to the original post. Where did you get the name Sarah Fleet from Jasmin? There are two George Hutchings on freebmd born in that area around then (not in 1837 though) so we do need to make sure we follow the right one.
Can you quote a later census for him so we know which one to follow?
Andrea
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Hi Andrea
I cant find a burial for a Frances on SFHG.
I have looked on SMI,FindMyPast & freebmd for a marriage of Sarah Fleet,nothing.
Nothing on the 1841/51 for a Sarah Hutching.
We need Jasmin to reply.
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Hello to all and thank you for trying to help .
I have just started tracing my grandmother's side of the family, and it has somewhat turned out to be so confusing.
To be able trace George and Sara it is best I start with their son George.
George Hutchings, the son, was born in Chichester, Sussex. This I am sure of, as Chichester is noted as place of birth on his marriage certificate. It seems he served in the Navy on the 'Shannon' as a 'bandsman' in the Mutiny in Lucknow, India, and this I can also confirm because a medal exists. His age on the marriage certificate, which took place in 1870, is 32.
On the marriage certificate, the parents are noted as George MA Hutchings (farmer) and Sara Fleet. My question mark on the surname Fleet was due to different interpretations at the Registry, as there it was also interpreted as Steel. The certificate also confirms that both were living at the time.
I was told that George, the son, could have been an only child.
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Hi Jasmin
Which Country did George marry in ?. The reason i ask is because on an English Marriage certificate it would not have Mothers name or ask for your place of birth.
omega
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Hi Jasmin
Welcome to Rootschat :D
I have also been looking and came up with the same family as Andrea and Omega.
The Westerton family do seem to be the best fit at the moment - Westerton is a tiny hamlet only a short distance from Chichester and Frances has the right maidename. However although George senior was alive in 1870, he is still going strong at 92 in 1901, Frances seems to have died by 61 when George is married to a Martha and of course frances isn't called Sarah! But perhaps she was known by this name?
In what country did George marry? (Snap Omega :D) and when did he emigrate? did he travel alone or with his parents? any other info?
Jan ;)
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The siege of Lucknow was in 1857 but I had always thought that only involved the army. Are you sure he was in the navy? An enquiry on the Armed Forces board might get you more information on his military service as they will know who was involved. Was the medal handed down through the family?
If Chichester is given as place of birth that leads us back to the two entries on freebmd. One in Chichester and one Westhampnett.
What was his occupation on marriage? When did he emigrate - assuming he did?
Andrea
Edit - amended post as I was muddling the George Fleet soldier with George Hutchings, farmer.
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Interestingly George senior is liivng with son Henry in 1901 and Henry is listed as Retired Chief Officer ( navy off added by enumerater)
Jan ;)
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Hello all
It seems that after 1858 - the end of the Mutiny, George Jnr was sent to Algiers. This is on data found on the Seamen Service search for the 'Shannon'. Although he was severely wounded in the Mutiny, he survived and ended up in Malta, (how and why I do not know), where he met my great great grandmother.
They were married in Malta, hence details on certificate. Also, I am now looking up his death date and details, (I am not sure whether he actually passed away in Malta), only then would I be able to again confirm his parents' names, and his occupation when he passed away. His medal was passed on in the family.
I have found two George Hutchings born in Chichester - in 1837 and in 1841, and I think the first one fits my George. As for his parents, compatable details for Sara Fleet I cannot find, although the George of the 1901 Census at 92 seems to be a possiblity.
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Hi
I'm not sure if you have alreday done so but there is a service record for George on the NA website (ADM 188/76), he was wounded on 15 March 1858 at Luknow. I also have information that he may have died in 1910, but this needs to be checked. By the way I believe his medal was sent to HMS Algiers.
Martin
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Hi Jasmin
I can check out the Westhampnett parish registers and see what I can find for you - probably on Tuesday.
Jan ;)
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hello all
thanks for info
Martin, have looked up NA website and found a George Hutchings ADM188/76, although could not find date when he wounded, also, strangely, dob reads 1835. Where can I look up info on 1910 demise?
does anyone know what there was in Algier at the time? a hospital? Malta was under british rule at the time, with british military hospitals, he could have come here
thanks
Jasmin
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Hi again
Ha! Have just realised that 'Algier' was not meant as in country, but HMS Algier as in ship!
thanks
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Jasmin
My information came from Captain Douglas-Morris book Naval Medals 1857-1880. He collated the information re those wounded from Admiralty Files in the National Archives, and the London Gazette. His entry for Hutchings has (D 1910) [sic], which I interpreted as meaning Died 1910.
On the date of birth issue, this would have been the date HE gave when signing on for Continuous Service.
Martin
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Hi
The UK Naval Medal and Award Rolls 1793 - 1972 has the following entry for the Indian Mutiny Medal 1857-1858
Hutchings Geo Bandsman 395 {Dup 9a2 Party 11.11.1910
L I/28 Sent to Algiers 22.5.1861}
I take Dup to mean duplicate :-\
Jan ;)
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From the Westhampnett parish registers
Baptisms
17 Sep 1837 George son of George and Frances Hutchens labourer of Westerton
16 Jun 1839 Thomas son of George and Frances Hutchens labourer of Westerton
28 Nov 1841 Henry son of George and Frances Hutchins labourer of Westerton
9 Jun 1844 William son of George and Frances Hutchings labourer of Westerton
21 Oct 1846 Allen son of George and Frances Hutchings labourer of Westerton
Burials
21 Oct 1848 Allen Hutchings age 2
26 Dec 1859 John Hutchings age 42 from Appledram
8 Oct 1875 Martha Huthcings age 63
Marriages
11 May 1856 George Hutchins widow to Martha Triggs widow
12 Mar 1867 Henry Hutchings Petty Officer RN to Martha Ticehurst
I could not find a burial for Frances in Westhampnett or Eastergate which is puzzling, maybe she left George senior.
Hope this is all of some help
Jan ;)
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Jasmin
Perhaps the (D 1910) means Duplicate, and not Died as I originally thought.
Martin
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Thanks for all info
It seems that Sara seems to be a frances after all. As soon as we have the death certificate of George Jnr hopefully this would confirm it. With all this info together we would have a whole family to trace back and not have to stop at a Sara who strangely does not seem to exist.
My sister has just managed to get hold of G Jnrs final official Navy logs which confirm him on other ships till 1876, and at long last, posted to Malta. His date of birth on this document is now confirmed as 20th August 1835, born Chichester, Sussex.
Jasmin
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Hi Jasmin
The birth date only confirms what George told them - if the Westerton family are the right ones then George probably gave the right birthday but added 2 years to his age. Perhaps he was actually too young to join the navy? What date did he join?
Jan ;)
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Hello all
Yesterday managed to obtain the (church) marriage certificate of George Jnr and Guzeppa Carbonaro (Josephine).
In this certificate, details re mother and father of groom confirm - Sara Fleet and George Hutchings (WIDOWER OF SARA TURNER).
This new news of a Sara Turner should help us know for sure that our George Snr of Chichester, is the Winterton one.
Trying to obtain George Jnr's death certificate is proving somewhat difficult, as date is unknown and looking up this can only be done manually. The plus about finding it is that it should have even more details.
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Hi
Hopefully someone will be able to find a George Hutchings to Sara Turner marriage on the SMI
Jan ;)
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Hi
Bad news i`m afraid.The marriage is`nt on the SMI but from know from the Mayfield PR cd it mentions some of the marriage on there are`nt on the SMI.
So maybe the answer is at the Record Office ???
omega
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Hi
Bad news i`m afraid.The marriage is`nt on the SMI but from know from the Mayfield PR cd it mentions some of the marriage on there are`nt on the SMI.
So maybe the answer is at the Record Office ???
omega
Jasmin
I will see if I can find anything next time I go - probably late this month
Jan ;)
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Hi
Thanks.
Will be having another look at the details when I call again at offices of church. Will be copying page word by word so I would be able to read it carefully, just in case something was left out. It is in Latin.
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Hi again
More bad news. George Hutchings Jnr did not die in Malta if he died in 1910. The registry have practically looked up most dates from 1875 to 1915 and no sign of death registration.
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Jasmin
I don't think it is clear when he died - the 1910 date seems to have been when a duplicate medal was issued for some reason - so could have been after 1915?
Jan ;)
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Jan
Could not have passed away after 1915, as that year his wife died and on her death certificate we have that she was already a widow.
We are also looking up marriage certificate of their only son's marriage certificate. It should have details of parents and whether they were living. George Bernard Hutchings was born 1875 in Malta and must have married before 1905 as by then he had already had his eldest children.
Jasmin
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Hi Jasmin
Yes, sorry Jasmin now see you have searched 1875-1915 :-[
Perhaps he died in England, back home visiting? A bit more difficult looking for a death for a George Hutchings here though as I imagine there will be quite a lot.
Jan ;)
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Hi Jasmin
More bad news I'm afraid :(
No sign of a George Hutchins to Sarah Turner in Upwaltham or West Hampnett, also checked neighbouring Eartham, East Dean and Sutton with no luck. There isn't a burial for a Sarah Hutchins in Westhampnett. There is one Dec 1830 in Upwaltham but she is age 40 so seems unlikely as George would have been around 17/18.
Sorry
Jan ;)
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Hello to all again
Have got to look at the original marriage certification details of George (jnr's) wedding. It seems after all that Sarah Turner was not his father's first wife. HE was the widower of Sarah Turner, not his father (George snr)! That means that at some point before 1870 he was married.
Also, from what we can understand, he did not die in Malta. We cannot find his death registered anywhere. The only confermation is that when my great great grandmother died in 1915, she was registered as a widow.
We have now started looking up all info re a Sarah Turner for dates between 1850 - 1870.
Any additional help would be great
Thanks to all
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Hi Jasmin
On FreeBMD there is this marriage
George Hutchings Mar qtr 1859 Chichester District Vol 2b Page 217, Sarah Turner is on the same page.
Jan ;)
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Hello Jan
Many thanks for info.
Will be looking it up and start from there.
Jasmin
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To: Gasmine 6877
Hello, I am writing from Malta. George Hutchings (Jn)(GH) happens to be my grand grand father. I just ran into this, Rootschat, site when looking for information about GH's Lucknow Indian Medal. This Medal is in my possession. It has his name and HMS Shannon engraved on the rim round the medal.
I do not know exactly when he came to Malta. Maltese official records say that on the 22/01/1870 he married Giuseppa Carbonaro, aged 35 years of Valletta. GH was declared aged 32 years and to be from Chichister, England, occupation bandsman. GH's (Jn) parents were father GH (Sn), alive, farmer, and Sarah Fleet, no occupation, alive.
According to the Maltese records, on the 15/01/1875, a boy was born to GH(Jn)(from Sussex) and Giuseppa. The boy was named Bernard George Hutchings, who happens to be my grandfather on my mother side. Giuseppa Hutchings died on Sun, 13th June 1915, widow of GH. No information was passed on GH's death (disapperance?). What was verbally passed on, is that Bernard was raised by his mother Giuseppa. Bernard eldest daughter, Jenny, married an Englishman by the surname Ephgrave and emigrated to England. My mother, Doris, was the youngest of Bernard's daughters.
I do have a copy of GH(Jn) service record certificate from the National Archives (UK) but as the original is hand written, it is not easily legible. Numbered as 82976, date of birth of GH is 20th August 1835, place of birth Chichester, Sussex.
I hope was of some help.
Regards
MikeA46
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat,
The original poster has not been online for some time but should get a message to say you have responded. I hope you can make contact.