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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Derbyshire => Topic started by: Mangano on Sunday 08 May 11 19:33 BST (UK)
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I've been trying to find more information on my great-great grandfather Thomas Howe who lived in Sheffield, from what I understand.
My great-grandmother came to America, I'm told, around 1882 with her sister Mary H. Howe(known as Polly to family) and stayed with an aunt in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Their brother, Jonah Howe stayed in England and married a woman named Emily Palmer or Benningfield.
Thomas Howe was reportedly married on the 6th of March 1870 at St Phillip's Church in Sheffield to Hannah Taylor. I don't know their birth or death dates though a cousin, Ernest Howe, said it could be around 1910 to 1912 that Thomas died, and that his grandfather lived at Bradwell, Derbyshire, at the time. He went to the home with his parents, Jonah & Emily Howe, to collect Thomas' es things.
I'm also told that Thomas remarried after the death of his wife Hannah to a woman whose name may have been Rose.
There were 2 children listed in a 1881 census who may have been step children. Hannah Howe may have died around 1876 after the birth of a child named Charles, who may have died at several months.
I have 2 photographs of Thomas Howe. None of Hannah.
I tried searching some of the sites dealing with cemeteries and found several Thomas and Hannah Howes listed...
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It should be noted, my great grandmother Emma Howe left with her sister Mary because her new "step sisters" would blame things on them for nothing. The new children were favoured thus their father, Thomas Howe, sent them to America to be with their aunt in Philadelphia.
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I've read some things on THE GREAT FLOOD OF SHEFFIELD on the 11/12 of March in 1864, which was caused by the bursting of the Dale Dyke Dam...
There was an item of one Thomas Howe..."...there were several narrow escapes. Mrs. Howe, the wife of Thomas Howe, was lying on the sofa down stairs waiting for her husband when the flood came. The water rose to nearly the ceiling but she managed to escape on to the stairs. An apprentice in the same house escaped in a similar manner..."
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For the 1881 census I have Thomas Howe...
THOMAS HOWE 35 born in Bradwell, Derby a railway signalman (birth 1846?)
MARIS HOWE 23 born in Holms, York wife
MARY H HOWE 9 born in Greasbrough,York
EMMA HOWE 7 born in Masbrough, York
ROSA B A HOWE 2 born in Greasbrough, York
and KATE E BOOTH(visitor) 18 born in Sheffield, York, England( a nurse)
My grandmother always thought that her grandfather Howe's second wife was Rose Beatrice Howe, and not Maris...my grandmother liked to name her dolls Rose Beatrice...
My great-grandmother Emma Howe is known to have been born on 2 March 1874 and according to some records, baptised on 1 April 1874...Her parents, Thomas and Hannah Howe are listed.
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Hi this is Thomas and Hannah in 1871:-
Thomas Howe 23 occ Railway Porter b Bradwell
Hannah 22 b Whitwell Derbyshire
Joshiah 2 mth? b Masbrough Yorks.
Residing at Amen Corner, Kimberworth, Masbrough, Yorks
Census Ref RG10/4705/24/2
Keyboard86
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thank you.
The small child born around 1870 may be the Uncle Jonah that we know of. He stayed in Great Britain and had 3 children: Dora, James and Ernest Howe.
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Hi this is 1851/61 for Thomas:-
1861 Census
Jonah Howe 48 Widower occ Farmer
Mary 21 occ Cotton Factory Worker
Robert 19 occ Lead Miner
Thomas occ Lead Miner
Emma 13
All born Bradwell
Residing at Smithy Hill, Bradwell, Derbyshire
Census Ref RG09/2544/30/17
1851 Census
Jonah Howe 38 occ Lead Ore Miner
Harriett 36
Mary 11
Robert 10
Thomas 5
Emma 3
Residing at The Hills, Hope, Tideswell, Derbyshire.
Census Ref HO107/2150/523/10
And this is Jonah with his Uncle and Aunt in 1881:-
Robert Howe 37 occ Farmer & Butcher
Nancy 47
Jonah 9 Nephew b Rotherham
Residing at The Hills, Bradwell.
Census Ref RG11/3453/29/4
Keyboard86
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Hi and lastly:-
Original copy of 1841 very hard to read, but family appear to have been dittoed with the family above by the name of Bocking?
Jonah 25 occ Miner
Harriot 25
Alice 5
Mary 2
Robert 7 months
Residing at Hills, Hope, Bradwell, Derbyshire
Census Ref HO107/186/ 7/10/ 14
Keyboard86
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thank you so much...Jonah makes sense being that a son was named Jonah Howe...
As to Thomas's sister Mary. She, too, may have been called Polly. My great-grandmother Emma Howe and her sister Mary(Polly) were supposed to have been staying with their Aunt Polly in Philadelphia. It's possible that she is the one listed in the 1851 census....
the picture below is of William Anthony Wenzell(1871-1965) and Emma (Howe) Wenzell (1874-1939) taken in a park in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Untied States...
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It is said that some of the Howe family attended the Roman Catholic church. Don't know if in Great Britain but In America, possibly. They later left and joined the Episcopalian Church.
After a lack of sympathy after a bout with smallpox in the family, from the RC Church, Emma Howe's husband William A Wenzell joined the latter.
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Jonah Howe, son of Robert (miner of Bradwell) and Mary was bapt in Hope 18/4/1813.
He married Harriet Bocking there 17/4/1837.
There are two candidate marriages for Robert Howe to a Mary in Hope. The first was on 11/6/1805 to Mary Middleton, and the second was on 24/12/1806 to Mary Furness. The Robert in the second was from Castleton (a village about 3 or 4 miles away). Only one of these couples appears to have had children bapt in the parish, so it would appear likely (but far from certain) that the second couple went to live in Castleton, thus making the first marriage your Robert.
Robert (70, Lead miner, born Bradwell) & Mary (65, born Bradwell) were in Bradwell in 1851 with a grandaughter Alice Howe, age 16. Alice would appear to be Jonah's daughter who is on the 1841 census but missing from his household in 1851.
Taking Robert's age from that census he would seem likely to be the Robert Howe son of Thomas and Alice of Bradwell, bapt in Hope 22/10/1780. Thomas How and Alice Middleton had married there 13/7/1778.
There were How(e)s in Bradwell from at least the mid 1600s.
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Could both Robert Howe and his father Thomas Howe have married a girl with the same last name: Middleton?
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But with my great-great grandfather Thomas Howe....I have him as marrying Hannah Taylor on the 6th of March 1870 at St. Phillips Church in Sheffield, England....can this be backed up with records?
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There's no reason why a Howe shouldn't marry a Middleton in two consecutive generations - especially as both were fairly common names in that parish at the time. I have similar happening in my ancestry a number of times (sometimes they were closely related, sometimes they weren't).
As for backing up the marriage with records - yes I'm sure it can be (as long as it really happened ! ). You'll either need to get the marriage cert or check in the parish register. If you ask on the Yorkshire board someone may be able to do a look up in the PR for you.
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There's no reason why a Howe shouldn't marry a Middleton in two consecutive generations - especially as both were fairly common names in that parish at the time. I have similar happening in my ancestry a number of times (sometimes they were closely related, sometimes they weren't).
I've had that happen in my family history as well. In the town where I live, the name Berenato is like Smith in other places. I have the name come up in 2 different branches of the Mangano family, plus others have intermarried with that name.
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[quote But with my great-great grandfather Thomas Howe....I have him as marrying Hannah Taylor on the 6th of March 1870 at St. Phillips Church in Sheffield, England....can this be backed up with records?
The marriage is transcribed on www.sheffieldindexers.com
HOWE, Thomas (Bachelor, age Full, Plate Layer, residing at Portland Strreet).
Married Hannah TAYLOR, on March 6, 1870, by Henry James Barton (Banns) at
St Philips Church, Shalesmoor. Father's name is John Howe (Farmer).
Married in the presence of Abraham Howe, Mary Ann Rodgers (mark).
TAYLOR, Hannah (Spinster, age Minor, ~, residing at Portland Strreet).
Married Thomas HOWE, on March 6, 1870, by Henry James Barton (Banns) at
St Philips Church, Shalesmoor. Father's name is William Taylor (Woodman).
Married in the presence of Abraham Howe, Mary Ann Rodgers (mark).
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Thank you, Tuppie.
We never knew Hannah's father's name before.
With the name followed by(mark) must mean that the person in question could not wrtite...for some reason.
thanks again...
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Hi this looks to be Hannah Taylor in 1851/61:-
1861 Census
William Taylor 54 Widower occ Woodman b Staveley Derbyshire
Hannah 11 Daughter b Whitwell Derbyshire
George Burrow 11 Boarder b Chesterfield
Elizabeth Burrow 36 Boarder b Bodham, Durham
Residing at High Hill, Whitwell
Census Ref RG09/2422/28/18
1851 Census
William Taylor 39 occ Farm Lab b Staveley Derbyshire
Sarah 40 b Brampton Derbyshire
Peter 15 occ Ag Lab
Ann 12
Sarah 6
Grace 4
Hannah 2
Residing at Whitwell.
All children born Whitwell
Census Ref HO107/2122/532/34
1841 Census
Sarah Taylor 30
George 10
Mary 8
Peter 6
Ann 3
Residing at Whitwell
Census Ref HO107/196/ 10/29/ 23
Keyboard86
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thanks Tuppie,
though I notice that Thomas' s father is listed as Jonah in other places. I suppose the names are similar.
I have an elderly relative who will be thrilled to hear of this information. I also have relatives in New Zealand, and England who will be equally happy!!!
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thanks Tuppie,
though I notice that Thomas' s father is listed as Jonah in other places. I suppose the names are similar.
I have an elderly relative who will be thrilled to hear of this information. I also have relatives in New Zealand, and England who will be equally happy!!!
Hi
Bear in mind this is a transcription also the incumbant probably heard it as John
Hannah HOWE aged 28 was buried at Greasborough St Marys 12 JUne 1877.
Thomas HOWE then married Maria Elizabeth GUEST in the June Q of 1878. registered in the Rotherham registration district 9c 695.
There is also a birth registration for a Rosa Beatrice A GUEST in 1879 who I would assume was the daughter of Thomas and Maria, rather than his wife.
Tuppie
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thanks Tuppie,
Also, I wrote earlier that my great-grandmother Emma Howe and her sister Mary Howe left for America soon after. Their mother died so young and they didn't get along with the "new" family.
Thomas Howe did visit them in America. He travelled(according to family members) 18 times to and from.
He passed away in Bradwell. Cousin Ernest Howe remembered his mother and father(Jonah and Emily Howe) going to settle things after the death(1910-12?) and he going along.
John
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Hi.
He is still alive on the 1911 census and living at Bradwell.
The only death I can find that fits is registered in Bakewell in 1917.
Deaths Jun 1917
Howe Thomas 71 Bakewell 7b 881
Tuppie
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My great-grandmother's brother was named Jonah Howe and he was supposed to have been born around 1870, dying around 1947. He married (Rebecca) Emily Benningfield(sometimes Palmer) most likely before 1895.
I have a Uncle Jonah Howe with his friend Mr. Watson, and Mr Watson's son Donald. Jonah is on left. The dog's name is Bruce, according to the back of the photograph. Looks like they're going out hunting....
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Jonah and Emily Howe had three children: Dora(1895-1983), James (1900-1981) and Ernest Howe(1904-1989).
Exact dates of Jonah and Emily are approximate.
Jonah must have been named after his grandfather Howe.
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I have recently been on ancestry.com and have found my great great grandfather Thomas Howe's ancestry, at least on the Bocking side of the family.
Thomas's maternal grandfather was William Bocking 1782-1869 and i can't believe that googling his name brought up 2 photographs of him from a photograph studio in Bradwell, Derbyshire, England.
To find such a treasure is rare!
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Hi this is 1851/61 for Thomas:-
1861 Census
Jonah Howe 48 Widower occ Farmer
Mary 21 occ Cotton Factory Worker
Robert 19 occ Lead Miner
Thomas occ Lead Miner
Emma 13
All born Bradwell
Residing at Smithy Hill, Bradwell, Derbyshire
Census Ref RG09/2544/30/17
1851 Census
Jonah Howe 38 occ Lead Ore Miner
Harriett 36
Mary 11
Robert 10
Thomas 5
Emma 3
Residing at The Hills, Hope, Tideswell, Derbyshire.
Census Ref HO107/2150/523/10
And this is Jonah with his Uncle and Aunt in 1881:-
Robert Howe 37 occ Farmer & Butcher
Nancy 47
Jonah 9 Nephew b Rotherham
Residing at The Hills, Bradwell.
Census Ref RG11/3453/29/4
Keyboard86
Been trying to find more on my Uncle Robert Howe and his wife Nancy. He's listed as a farmer and butcher and his wife looks a little older than he. I was wondering if they had any children. They took in their nephew Jonah Howe, to live with them according to the 1881 census.
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Hi again, Robert Howe married Nancy Downing Dec qtr 1866 Chapel le F. 7b 1113 (Chapel en le Frith, Derbyshire)
1871 Nancy aged 38 Married occ Cotton Mill Hand b Bradwell is home alone at The Hills, Bradwell, her husband Robert aged 26 occ Coal Miner b Bradwell is a lodger at Railway Terrace, West, Staveley, Chesterfield, Derbyshire Census Ref Nancy RG10/3633/45/17 and Robert RG10/3622/41/31 living almost next door to Nancy in 1871 is a widowed Jonah Howe aged 56 b Bradwell, Nancy and Robert are together on the 1891, but by 1901 Robert has now married an Ann b c 1847 Denby, Derbyshire.
Death Nancy Howe March qtr 1893 Bakewell 7b 467 aged 59
Death Robert Howe March qtr 1907 Bakewell 7b 580 aged 65
Hope this is of help?
Keyboard86
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It does help a great deal but looks like there were no offspring. They had their nephew Jonah Howe in their home at one point. Thank you for the information...
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Jonah and Emily Howe had three children: Dora(1895-1983), James (1900-1981) and Ernest Howe(1904-1989).
Exact dates of Jonah and Emily are approximate.
Jonah must have been named after his grandfather Howe.
In the past few weeks, I've been informed that Jonah Howe and Emily Benningfield had another child. Arthur Howe was born in 1900 but died in 1901. It's the first that I've heard of thisl
Also, can't seem to find a father for Emily Benningfield, though her mother married a man by the last name of Palmer.
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Hi again, I think you will find that possibly Emily Benningfield is the illegitimate daughter of Phebe Benningfield, both born Mildenhall, Suffolk, Phebe can be found with parents Isaac and Jane in Mildenhall 1861 census aged 11 Census ref RG09/1143/112/11
Keyboard86
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Having found extensive family information about my Bocking ancestors, I noticed there is one notorious Backing named Hannah. At age 16, she was executed for poisoning a co-worker, of whom she was jealous of.
I don't know if she is related or not. Can't seem to find the names of her parents. From what I understand, she tried to implicate relatives when evidence against her became evident.
Would like to know if there is a relation. She, too, is from the Bradwell area.
Her name was HANNAH BOCKING and she was hung in 1819.
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It is said that some of the Howe family attended the Roman Catholic church. Don't know if in Great Britain but In America, possibly. They later left and joined the Episcopalian Church.
After a lack of sympathy after a bout with smallpox in the family, from the RC Church, Emma Howe's husband William A Wenzell joined the latter.
The picture listed as Emma Howe turns out to be Mary "Polly" Howe, her sister