RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: Devaney1886 on Sunday 08 May 11 21:36 BST (UK)
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This has been my brick wall for 8 years :(
My Great Great Grandfather was one Thomas Devaney, born in Ireland around 1856. My first sighting of him is in 1881 where he is single, and working in a pub.
In 1882 he married my Gt Gt Grandmother, Annie Morgan in Liverpool. Father's name on the marriage certificate is Patrick Devaney, deceased, Licensed Victualler.
Thomas and Annie had 4 children: Michael, John Patrick, Mary Gertrude and Joseph.
In the 1891 census Thomas is working in a pub in Cheshire, while Annie and the children are still at home in Liverpool.
Later on in 1891 Thomas died in Liverpool workhouse [TB]
I have no idea when Thomas came over from Ireland, or if his Father Patrick came too, nor who is Mother was.
Family hearsay has it they were from Mayo, but I have no concrete evidence of this, and actually despair of even ever finding a county for him.
Can only hope that some one has come across them in their own research and knows a bit more.
Many thanks for any help
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What was his age in 1881, 1891 and death certificate?
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Is that him in Liverpool age 35 at death in 1891?
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Yes, that's him. He was 25 in the 1881. I can't access his death cert at this moment as it's in a box under my little boy's bed whose asleep. :-[
I'm quite sure it was 35 on that too
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There are 3 Thomas' with father Patrick Devaney in a 5 year +- of 1856 on RootsIreland, but only one with the exact spelling. Sorry I've no credits to look further.
Devany Thomas 1853 Co. Roscommon
Devaney Thomas 1860 Co. Leitrim
Devany Thomas 1852 Co. Tipperary
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That's a start, thank you so much for taking the time to look, may have to invest in some credits!
How much detail is the record likely to give? For example: Father's occupation, mother's maiden name, Sponsors? etc.
I think this is what's so frustrating is that I don't think I'm ever going to be able to say " Yep, that's mine for certain' :(
Again thank you for your time
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you need to know where your Devaney family came from to start a proper search for records since not all a prishes have details, and you would have no way of knowing if a particular Patrick Devaney was 'yours' or not. RootsIreland doesn't cover all parts of Ireland and leaves out two of the largest population centres - i.e. Cork and Dublin cities.
see : Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html)
My Ancestor came from Ireland - where do I start? (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,498742.0.html)
The details included on parish records vary over time, and from parish to parish, but in general if the family were Catholic a baptism record would show name of child, date of baptism, parents full names, and probably sponsors (godparents) names.
A Church of Ireland baptism record for this time may include father's occupation, but would not show mother's maiden name.
Shane
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Hi thanks for your input, not even having a county to start searching in is nightmare. I had actually given up for a couple of years as it seemed such a hopeless task.
I've spent hours today trawling through Slater's in the hope that a Patrick Devaney running a pub would leap out at me. :P
Again thanks for your time [they were Catholic]
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.....
In 1882 he married my Gt Gt Grandmother, Annie Morgan in Liverpool. Father's name on the marriage certificate is Patrick Devaney, deceased, Licensed Victualler.
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Someone who runs a pub is a Vintner... a Victualler is different... a bit like a butcher or grocer
Shane
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I have a lot of licensed victuallers and they all ran pubs [explains my love of alcohol ;D ]
I think a vinter is someone who makes wine or a wine merchant
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It looks like the term may have different meanings depending on date or location... in Dublin I'd take that to mean a grocer/butcher. Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victualler) has :
A victualler is traditionally a person who sells food or other provisions, similar to a grocer, and in particular British usage can be used to mean a person licensed to sell alcoholic beverages
and the free dictionary (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Licensed+victualler) has
'1. A supplier of victuals; a sutler.
2. Chiefly British An innkeeper.....'
Shane
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Hmmm, interesting.
Thomas was a licensed victualler, as was his Father-in-law, and they both can be traced to pubs.
I would think Thomas putting his Father, Patrick down as a licensed Victualler on his English marriage certificate would mean a pub landlord too
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Interesting to learn that the terms could have been slightly different on both side of the Irish Sea. In Thom's 1852 (Dublin) there's a large list of Vinters for what we would call 'pubs'. The trade's index for Victualler's has a heading and no entries and states 'see Butchers'.
p.s. had a quick look for any Devaney entries under Vintners, Inns or Taverns/Hotels - none unfortunately
There was (or maybe still is) an off license chain in Dublin named Devaneys...
Shane
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May have to look into that one as well.
Devaneys seem to be dotted about all over the place, with a million different spellings, which doesn't make my task any easier.
Many thanks for all your help, it is much appreciated.
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some related businesses that show up in listing that might be worth keeping an eye out for
Grocer & Spirit Merchant
Grocer & Beer Dealer
These were sort of half shop, half pub.. maybe a uniquely Irish setup, and description..
Shane
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Thank you
I did notice in Slater's that there were a few different titles, just to make my job easier ::)
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There is a Patrick marriage in Mayo that may be worth looking at seeing as the family had specifically mentioned Co Mayo. Maybe they just had the wrong generation?
Church Marriage Devanny Patrick 1854 Co. Mayo
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Thank you once again, will try and follow all avenues
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Just a thought - have you checked the actual marriage register entries? RC marriage registers sometimes have a lot more information than is shown on the certificate.
St Mary's Highfield Street per http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk/liverpoolrcmarriages/marriages.php
(ref 763 - Ann Morgan/Thomas Devany)
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Can't believe I have never come across that site before! Thank you so much, have put in a request. Fingers crossed theirs is one of the 20% with extra detail!
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The Thomas b. 1852 in Tipperary had a father called Patrick and mother called Ellen Orman
in the parish of Cournaganeen(Bournry) RC.
You can discount him as it seems the whole family went to America according to this post http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/localities.northam.usa.states.newyork.counties.orange/317/mb.ashx
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Thank you anyway :)
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Hi my name is Thomas Devaney doing my family history. my family started in roscommon ireland Anne Devaney was my g/g/g/gran mother who came over in about 1871 by the census .with sons Peter John and Michael and settled down in wrexham north wales. she was a widower her husband was Thomas Devaney i have no invo on him as yet?Her son John Devaney my g/g/ grandad who marreid Hanora Rawlins on the 16 may 1881 both 23 years old .Hanora,s dad Benjamin Rawlins was a surveyor all living in wrexham and all coming from roscommon . Anne was born in 1829 in roscommon .I have Hanora coming from Castleland roscommon.There were a lot of irish,s living in wrexham around tuttle st, and mount st. So good invo in wrexham north wales There is a Michael Devaney who was living in everton liverpool my g/g/uncle with a wife and son Thomas.his wife,s surname was Lloyd hope this will help others doing family history.P.S. John and hanora had children john thomas benjamin and hanora and bessy .ben died age 9 in 1896. JOhn was my g/dad who moved to birkenhead with all his brothers and sisters when he lost his mum and dad
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Thank you for the info, will keep it in mind when researching; you never know we may tie in somewhere.
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Hi my name is Thomas Devaney doing my family history. my family started in roscommon ireland Anne Devaney was my g/g/g/gran mother who came over in about 1871 by the census .with sons Peter John and Michael and settled down in wrexham north wales. she was a widower her husband was Thomas Devaney i have no invo on him as yet?Her son John Devaney my g/g/ grandad who marreid Hanora Rawlins on the 16 may 1881 both 23 years old .Hanora,s dad Benjamin Rawlins was a surveyor all living in wrexham and all coming from roscommon . Anne was born in 1829 in roscommon .I have Hanora coming from Castleland roscommon.There were a lot of irish,s living in wrexham around tuttle st, and mount st. So good invo in wrexham north wales There is a Michael Devaney who was living in everton liverpool my g/g/uncle with a wife and son Thomas.his wife,s surname was Lloyd hope this will help others doing family history.P.S. John and hanora had children john thomas benjamin and hanora and bessy .ben died age 9 in 1896. JOhn was my g/dad who moved to birkenhead with all his brothers and sisters when he lost his mum and dad
Lots of info there, thank you, fingers crossed we can tie in somewhere along the line
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This has been my brick wall for 8 years :(
My Great Great Grandfather was one Thomas Devaney, born in Ireland around 1856. My first sighting of him is in 1881 where he is single, and working in a pub.
In 1882 he married my Gt Gt Grandmother, Annie Morgan in Liverpool. Father's name on the marriage certificate is Patrick Devaney, deceased, Licensed Victualler.
Thomas and Annie had 4 children: Michael, John Patrick, Mary Gertrude and Joseph.
In the 1891 census Thomas is working in a pub in Cheshire, while Annie and the children are still at home in Liverpool.
Later on in 1891 Thomas died in Liverpool workhouse [TB]
I have no idea when Thomas came over from Ireland, or if his Father Patrick came too, nor who is Mother was.
Family hearsay has it they were from Mayo, but I have no concrete evidence of this, and actually despair of even ever finding a county for him.
Can only hope that some one has come across them in their own research and knows a bit more.
Many thanks for any help
Hi there sorry I can't help but I'm looking for relatives/ decendants of James & Julia (nee Boylan) Devaney also Fyves?? Some who live in the UK .. Devaney names in the Liverpool area were James (Jim) .Betty & Kevin children?? London John(Jack) sons Paul & Anthony. Della Shields nee Devaney Birmingham Margaret Lynch nee Devaney Son Mark Lynch Daughter Bridget Lynch.
Also family in Cincinnati in the US
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Hi
Take a look at
http://www.yelp.ie/biz/deveneys-dundrum
and scroll to the end of the page, where there is information on the history of this family business, dating back to 1909.
With the same occupation, I wonder if this family is connected to your own. For the record, you can google Deveneys Off Licence and it will show the family's many businesses, all connected with the pub trade!
Wonder if there is a connection.
Cheers (excuse the pun)...
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My name was Thomas Michael devaney when I was born in 1994 until my mother changed it in 1998 to Michael Thomas Mearns, if anyone knows anything about this. Or where I could find my father?