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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Lydart on Sunday 15 May 11 20:10 BST (UK)
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It says to put queries on this board if I'm not sure where to put them !
This man married my aunt late in life when I was a child. He wasn't a blood relative, so I've not bothered to find out much about him ... until now !
He used to say he came from County Cork in Ireland, and I vaguely remember him going visiting someone in Eire ... Aunt said he had no family; that he was an orphan ...so why did he go to Cork ?
So now I checked him out, and find he was born in West Ham, London !
His d.o.b. is 21 Sept 1909, West Ham, 4a 303.
Marriage (to my aunt) Q3 Ealing, 1952 5e 3
He died 26 May 1973, Ealing, 5b 123.
And that's all ... did he have family in Cork, or was that just some Irish blarney ??
And that's all I can find ...
Any ideas ?
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And in the 1901 they are in Stamford Hill, 53 Narford Road, John a Mercantile Clerk, Olive and Ellie J, daughter, aged under 4 months.
Can't see the marriage yet though. Rather a lot of John McCarthy's. Will see if Olive pops up in the 1891 with her Regent's Park birth, and relatively unusual name.
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Ancestry searches not helping, can't see Olive in 1881
Here's Ellie Irene
Ellie Irene McCarthy Jan-Feb-Mar 1901 Hackney Middlesex
Vol 1b, Page 434
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You're quicker at this than I am !
I've just got to them on the 1901 !
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And I think this will be Nora(h)
Norah McCarthy Oct-Nov-Dec 1902 West Ham Essex
Vol 4a Pg 124
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I found Lixnaw, population 248 ! And the church there was designed by a J J McCarthy !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lixnaw
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Lixnaw = swimming flagstone ? :o
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Yes ... I saw that and wondered ... ::)
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More clues with the marriage:
John Devona D McCarthy
Olive Alice Bustard
Apr qtr 1898
Hackney
Now there's a name to play with!
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Devona ??
And Bustard ??
:o
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Gosh, no wonder I couldn't find Olive Alice in the 1891, she's transcribed as Olvin Alice Gushard, born in Negent's Pack.
Unfortunately a visitor in Stoke Newington so can't see her parents. Wonder who she is in the 1881?
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I just found this ...
Name: John D Mccarthy
Birth: abt 1872
Death: Dec 1953 - Ealing, Middlesex, England
Death: QApr-Oct-Nov-Dec 1953
If thats the father, then Cedric wasn't an orphan when he married my aunt ! But I went to the wedding as a child ... Cedric had no-one there; it was all my family
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Quite normal, Olive Bustard, but apparently born 1866 as she's 15 in the 1881. Perhaps she reduced her age a bit because John McCarthy was younger?
She's in Hornsey, Myddleton Road, daughter of widowed William Bustard, a pianoforte maker, born 1834 Broadclist Devon. Five daughters at home, 22, 20,19, 15, 13. The 20 year old, Frances, is shown as paralysed.
Re the death, well, it could be him but Ealing is right over the other side of London....
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But Ealing is where Cedric and Aunt were living when they married ...perhaps his father was there too ... perhaps Aunt knew about him but for some reason kept quiet ... or perhaps Cedric did and didnt tell Aunt his father was still alive ? I sense a mystery !
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ooooh!
Wonder if Olive Alice was still about?
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Strangely can't see a death for Olive.
Suppose there wasn't a divorce, or something else shocking?
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Just found Olive Alice's birth. She was born 1865, so a lot older than John Devona D
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I'll leave this with you for now ...got to be up VERY early !
We always thought it very odd that aunt appeared with this man and said she was going to marry him ... she was 46 ! Hardly a shot-gun thing ! :o
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Good luck with the op! ;)
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Hello Igor ...
I got an email from the Copyright Editor saying this to topic had been split ... cant find out where to !
I read through it again ... cant see any copyright enfringements ... and all the people mentioned are dead ...
??? ??? ??? ??? ???
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Yes, me too. Was worried I'd infringed something!
Io think we're at a stop though as I can't see death for Olive or certain marriages for the sisters. Worth a punt on the John D death?
In any case I bet Cedric had some Bustard cousins around at the time of marriage....
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Yes; I'm intrigued by his marriage to my aunt, but not enough so to persue it much more ! Somehow she, and the family had the strong idea that all his family was dead at the time of the marriage, yet they obviously weren't ! He must have had reasons for his visits to Cork, but we'll never find why ... so we seems to have got to a natural end !
Thank you for all your help ... I've got the details noted on my family tree ... and thats it !
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Yes; I'm intrigued by his marriage to my aunt, but not enough so to persue it much more ! Somehow she, and the family had the strong idea that all his family was dead at the time of the marriage, yet they obviously weren't ! He must have had reasons for his visits to Cork, but we'll never find why ... so we seems to have got to a natural end !
Thank you for all your help ... I've got the details noted on my family tree ... and thats it !
I'm relatively confident that Cedric was the nephew of my 3x great grandma. Using Irishgenealogy.ie, I was able to determine, after finding his father at long last in the 1911 census, that there were only 2 John McCarthys born in Lixnaw during the year that would have made John D. McCarthy the right age. One is a son of Michael McCarthy and Mary Walsh, and is unrelated to me as far as I know. The other is the son of Denis McCarthy and Catherine Stack, and therefore the younger brother of my 3x great grandma Ellen "Nellie" McCarthy, who immigrated to the US in the 1880s. It was long known that her brother had relocated to England by 1901 when their mother died, and there is apparently a photo in the possession of one of my relatives that depicts John, and created by a Brighton photographer. Being from the USA, I have no idea how likely an Essex man would have been to have a portrait done in Brighton, but I nevertheless believe that this John and mine are one and the same.
Lixnaw is not particularly close to Cork, but I've had enough otherwise unexplained Cork DNA matches to think that perhaps there were relatives there. I know that John's father's side was entirely in Lixnaw by 1832 at the latest, when John's father was born there. John's paternal grandmother, at least, had been born in Lixnaw in 1812. The McCarthy grandfather was likely from there too, but since he doesn't appear in the baptism records (which start in 1810), I can't confirm that.
The family of John's mother is less clear. There were 4 Catherine Stacks born in Lixnaw parish alone during the period during which she was likely born, and I have no clue as to which, if any, were her.
Based on voter registration info from England, it appears that John's actual middle name was Denis (further increasing the likelihood that he is indeed my relative). Devona may have been a half-hearted attempt at latinization by the priest that performed the marriage.
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I'm attaching a picture of Cedric's father, John McCarthy. He died 27 Oct 1953 in Ealing, so although it's certainly possible he was in poor health at the time, he was certainly still alive when your aunt married Cedric. When I gave this address to their sister Ellie's great granddaughter, her father recognized the address immediately as Cedric's sister Nora's address into later life (she died in 1981).
I can't confirm Olive's being alive or dead in 1952 at the moment, and the oldest sister Ellie had died in 1947, but Cedric's father John and sister Nora were definitely still around. Also, Cedric's niece Estelle would have been in I think her 20s at the time and living in the London area, too. Cedric would also have had first cousins in the US, Ireland, England, Canada, and possibly New Zealand at that time. He had an uncle, Stephen McCarthy, living in Middlesex, as well. I believe his aunt Mary McCarthy was still living in Lixnaw, but I don't know when she actually passed.
I notice that Cedric and Margaret got married in the Church of England. My guess would be that his Catholic family boycotted the wedding for that reason.
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He doesn't look anything like I remember Cedric .... but that was 50+ years back !
I've just remembered a couple of things .... I believe he was working in the Civil Service, as did my aunt; and secondly, he had quite a pronounced stammer.
That's it !
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You're in luck ! Searching through hundreds of ancient family photos, I have found two of Cedric .... no idea what date, but maybe the 50's, 60's ??
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You're in luck ! Searching through hundreds of ancient family photos, I have found two of Cedric .... no idea what date, but maybe the 50's, 60's ??
Thank you so much! I’m actually about to catch a flight to visit his father’s hometown in about 2 hours, so the timing couldn’t be better!
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Enjoy your trip, and may you meet up with near or distant relatives !
Go well, stay well !
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For what it's worth, the picture of him on the donkey was taken at the Cliffs of Ballybunion. It's very near Lixnaw. I visited there today and recognized it, and my cousin's husband who grew up there confirmed the location.