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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (East Riding & York) => Topic started by: broadgate on Wednesday 18 May 11 09:43 BST (UK)
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This is a wild shoot, but I am trying to track down a Mr Watson first name may have been Joseph who lived in either Beverley or Wetwang not sure which. This would be at around the turn of the centuary (1900), his wife was not well and had a carer by the name of Alice Hood. At around that time for some reason or other Mr Watson and the carer ran off to Canada.
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Have you checked for Passengers outbound to Canada or they could have gone by way of New York then onto Canada??
Have you checked the 1911 census to see if any of them were still in UK??
Have you found a death for Mrs Watson??
Did Mr n Mrs Watson have any children and if so have you found any of them??
bendywendy
The search for information is also on the Canada Board, by permission of Broadgates
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=537891.msg3917966#msg3917966
and a possible connection of dau Dorothy E Watson marriage to Fawcett Pudsey
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=538020.msg3925675#msg3925675
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Hi and welcome to rootschat
There are various free sources you can use to help your search. www.freebmd.org.uk has civil registration records, www.familysearch.org has parish registers and the 1881 census. Freecen may provide later census.
We can't do look ups but the 1911 census index is free to search and there are lots of suggestions on this thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,492718.0.html
If you can give a little more information as to how these people fit into your family history then it may make it easier to trace them.
Regards
Andrea
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Thanks for the responses, I am a bit new at this and to be honest have not done this kind of undertaking before. I have a e-mail friend in Canada who is the grandchild of the two who eloped off to Canada and he asked me if I could find out where they were from and any other information I could uncover. How do I access the passenger list for ships that left for Canada? I will also try these other sources you have directed me too, like the census.
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I will have a looksie later for you and some more pointers too, lots of folk will help you on here too, if you not sure or don't understand just say so.
bendywendy
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Found these for an Alice Hood travelling to Canada...
Year of Birth Year of Travel Port From Country Port To
HOOD Alice 1901 F 1911 Glasgow Canada Quebec
HOOD Alice 1919 F 1927 Southampton Canada Montreal
HOOD Alice 1913 F 1930 Greenock Canada Saint John NB
HOOD Alice Unknown 1946 Liverpool Canada Halifax
HOOD Alice 1930 F 1955 Liverpool Canada Montreal
HOOD Alice Isabel 1907 F 1926 Southampton Canada Quebec
HOOD Alice Isabel 1907 F 1926 Southampton Canada Quebec
HOOD Alice M 1885 F 1917 Liverpool Canada Montreal
the last one 1885 is most likely, as the others will be too young, if she was working by 1900, there is the possibility that they married?? and both were Watson, there is almost 2 pages of an Alice Watson of varying ages and travelling at varying times to Canada.
There is far too many Joseph Watson to know which may be him, we need more specific information, like his first name, approximate date of birth, his wifes first name etc., also did he and Alice Hood marry in Canada or UK??
Will have a look and see if I can find the Watson's on the 1901 census for the areas you mention.
bendywendy
This is the site for looking up sea travel, you will need to pay to see the full information, but if you have most of their details this cuts down on the amount you need to view
http://www.ancestorsonboard.com/
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1901 census Woodmansey with Beverley Parks (part of)
Alice Hood 15 yrs Single born Walkington which is near Beverley occupation Housemaid.
living with parents Francis & Sarah Hood at 14 Queensgate Road.
RG 13/4463
It dosen't appear she is a Housemaid at home, so must be working out, could be a daily housemaid or was at home at time of Census.
1901 census St Silas, Sculcoates, Hull, East Riding
Joseph Watson Married Head 59 yrs Born Beverley Occupation ???? Builder Employed as Worker
Maria Watson "" Wife 56 " " " Hull no occupation
living at 41 Browley ?? St
RG 13/4490 Folio 11 Page 13
Did he do building work in Canada??
I cannot find any others in Beverley/Wetwang areas, but these above do not mean the are correct either, you need to do a bit more searching and to cross reference the DOB and POB when you find some info from your friend.
Can you ask if they took any children to Canada??
bendywendy
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The only marriages I can find for a Joseph Watson to a Maria ?? are these
Joseph Watson to Maria Tomlinson @ Sculcoates District 9d Mar Q 1863
Joseph Watson to Maria Drinkall @ Howden District 9d Sep Q 1883
Joseph Henry Watson to Maria Stacey @ Ashby Zouche District 7a Jun Q 1908
bendywendy
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Can you ask your friend..
If they took Canadian Citizenship/Naturalisation.
Has he got the details of the children they had, were they born in Canada or UK, also where did they live in Canada and what did they do for occupations.
Did either of them ever return to UK for a visit, if they did, we might be able to find them on Uk Incoming Passenger Lists.
bendywendy
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14 Queensgate Road
I was going to take a picture of No 14 today, further research shows the family were not living at number 14, they were living at number 14 on the schedule.
If you look at previous images No 1 on the schedule was Beverley Parks
The first house down Queensgate Road is number six on the schedule
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Thanks SteveJW, I will have another look at the census info, very kind of you to go and take a photo for her. Someone did this for me in Lancashire, I was really grateful to her.
bendywendy
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Hi , you have identified the correct Alice hood, of 14 Queensgate this is the lady who worked for Mr Watson and who eloped off to Canada with in 1907, it is thought that Mr Watson may have lived at Chalk Villa Queensgate Beverley where Alice was the house maid.
Broadgate
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will do something abt this later on, got baby grandson for the day.
wendy
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how abt this for a possible birth for Joseph Watson, Driffield District, Sep Q 1857
Driffield District at the time of this Birth Registration covered these areas...
Bainton, Beeford, Bracken, Brigham, Butterwick, Cottam, Cowlam, Driffield, Eastburn, Emswell, Kelleythorpe, Little Driffield, Fimber, Foston on the Wolds, Foxholes, Boythorp, Garton on the Wolds, Gemblin, Great Kelk, Harpham, Helperthorpe, Hutton Cranswick, Kelk, Kilham, Kirkburn & Battleburn, Langtoft, Little Driffield, Little Kelk, Lowthorpe, Luttons, Luttons Ambo, Middleton on the Wold, Nafferton, Neswick, North Dalton, North Frodingham, Rotsea, Ruston Parva, Skerne, Sledmere, Southburn, Sunderlandwick, Tibthorpe, Towthorpe, Wansford, Watton, Weaverthorpe, Wetwang.
Ask your friend if Joseph ever mentioned other areas in this list, as well as Wetwang n Beverley, some names might just jog your friends mind, this may well mean this birth to be more accurate than these others I have found in Howden & Sculcoates Districts.
Now to find his first marriage details.
bendywendy
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Heres the location of Chalk Villa
Check out
http://treasurehouse.eastriding.gov.uk/ArchiveMap.aspx?sheet=210
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Hi SteveJW
thats a good map, the link opens but says I need a "plug in" - do you know what that may be??
Broadgates... think I have found your Joseph Watson, but still work in progress, will let you know asap.
bendywendy
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Hi Broadgates, still working on this info I have found, but awaiting some info from UK/Overseas from someone who has a rellie still living from within the family I believe is that of Joseph Watson, as soon as this info comes to me I will be ready to post the info I have found and lots of it too.
bendywendy
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Can you ask your friend if this is the child that Alice was carrying when she left England for Canada?? If this is their first child, then they did not leave England for Canada until 1910/11
birth: 25 Feb 1911 —Ontario
parents: Joseph Watson, Alice Hood
record title: Ontario Births, 1869-1912
name: Zena Martha Alice Watson
event place: Ontario
gender: Female
father: Joseph Watson
mother: Alice Hood
registration year: 1911
registration number: 057350
digital folder number: 4530
bendywendy
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Have you any news re the birth Zena Martha Alice Watson???
I am still awaiting some info from overseas in relation to what I have found, trying to ascertain if this person knew of the story of Joseph Watson going to Canada, in which case I will have found the correct family.
bendywendy
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Hi Bendywendy,
Just got back from my Rome trip, got your lastest message,you've been busy and the info looks very interesting that you have dug up re the birth in Canada so I have sent it on to Canada and await a reply.
Thanks Broadgate.
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IF.... I have found the correct family and this elderly person in NZ knows of the story of Canada, then I think I can say 99% that the family is that of Joseph, still awaiting news from NZ/Aus, will let you know asap.
bendywendy
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Just got a reply from Canada, I dont know how you do it but you hit the jackpot.
Zena is the second child to Joseph & Alice the first being William Gordon Grey Watson born 1907 who is the father of my friend who is asking me to find out about Joseph Watson and where he is from and who was he.
Well done Wendybendy, carnt wait to hear what else you can discover.
Broadgate.
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bendywendy
Did you get the plugins, was ahead of myself if you go to
http://treasurehouse.eastriding.gov.uk/
The plugins are on the left hand side
Should be able to get a picture of the houses that No 14 on the schedule is in. It appears the houses have been renumbered over the years. The row of houses were numbered odd and even (1,2,3,4 etc) they are now numbered odd only (1,3,5,7 etc). Houses are only on one side of the street
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works now, thanks..
Watson info to follow tomorrow.
Broadgate's and his friend have now confirmed that the family I have found is indeed the correct family. Starting with Joseph's Grandparents, his parents and then Joseph's family.
1841 census Kirk Ella Grange, West Ella, Sculcoates, Hessle, Yks. All born in County of Yorks.
This entry has been transcribed as WaLson !!
Joseph Watson, 55, Farmer
Elizabeth Watson, 45
Hannah Watson, 20
William Watson, 17 married Elizabeth Holmes - some checking to do on this as he states F. John W ?
Sarah Watson, 15 married George Henry Wilson 2 Sep 1848 York Marriage Bonds & Allegations York 1618-1887
GHW bap 15 Nov 1827 Wakefield F. Robert Wilson M. Bessy Parkinson
Elizabeth Watson, 12 married John Rowland Curtois @ Sculcoates 24 Apr 1855 Marriage Bonds & Allegations York 1618-1887
JRC born 14 Feb/bap 14 Mar 1834 Kirton Lindsey F. Thomas Curtois M. Anne Chappill
Rebeckah Watson, 10
Joseph Watson, 7
Jane Watson, 4 married David Barr 29 Jul 1856 York Marriage Bonds & Allegations York 1618-1887
DB Born 20 Sep 1833 Bap 20 Oct 1833 Normanby near Spittal in the Street, Lincs
F. William Barr M. Ann poss Awcock/Johnson
Charlot Ellerton, 40 Servant Cook
Go to page 10 reply 96 by Pankpop for more info on these children and who they married and their children
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continue..... Broadgate's and his friend have now confirmed that the family I have found is indeed the correct family. Starting with Joseph's Grandparents, his parents and then Joseph's family.
1851 census All residing at Kirk Ella Grange, Kirk Ella, Yorks HO107/2360 437 1
Joseph Watson, Head, Widower, 66 B. West Ella, Yorks Farmer occupying 460 acres employing ..... difficult to read how many employed
Elizabeth Watson Dau, Unm, 22 Farmers Dau B. Little Weighton, Yorks
Joseph Watson Son, Unm, 17 Farmers Son B. Kirk Ella, Yorks married Martha Walker
Jane Watson Dau, Unm, 14 Scholar B. Kirk Ella, Yorks
Edward Atkinson Grandson, 8, Scholar B. Cottingham, Yorks
George H. Wilson Visitor Marr, 24 Corn & Seed Merchant B. Wakefield, Yorks
Sarah Wilson Visitor Marr, 25 B. Little Weighton, Yorks
James Wilson Visitor 1 B. Hull, Yorks
Charlott Smith Servant Unm, 24 General Servant B. Brigg, Lincs
Hannah Hammond Servant Unm, 18 General Servant B. Beeford, Yorks
Hannah Baxter Servant Unm, 19 ?? Servant B. Holme, Yorks
William Acey Servant Unm, 19 Waggoner B. Welton, Yorks
George Baxter Servant Unm, 19 Plough Man B. Leconfield, Yorks
William Atkin Servant Unm, 21 Plough Man B. Grimsby, Lincs
William Atkinson Servant Unm, 16 Plough Man B. Swanland, Yorks
Charles Maw Servant Unm, 21 Plough Man B. West Ella, Yorks
Richard Shields Servant Unm, 16 Groom B. Anlaby, Yorks
Nevil Ennis Servant Unm, 16 Cow Hand B. Hull, Yorks
George Savige Servant Marr, 25 Shepherd B. Cawood, Yorks
1861 census All residing at Kirk Ella Grange, Kirk Ella, Yorkshire RG9/3578 69 18
Joseph Watson Head, Marr, 27 Farmer 900 acres of land employing Labs & 4 Boys B. Kirk Ella Grange
Martha Watson wife, Marr, 27 B. Preston, Yorks
***Joseph Watson son, 4 B. Kirk Ella Grange
Arthur Watson son, 2 B. Kirk Ella Grange
Annie G Watson dau, 11mths B. Kirk Ella Grange
Martha Dean Servant, Unm, 18, House Servant B. Leconfield, Yorks
Sarah Herdsman Servant, Unm, 16, Nurse Maid B. Beverley, Yorks
John Bruning Servant, Unm, 24 Groom B. Colchester, Essex
***Joseph Watson c 1857 (Canada)
Possible Marriage for Joseph Watson to Martha Walker, Mar Q 1857 Sculcoates, Yks
1871 census Joseph's Parents n Sister All residing at Kirk Ella, Sculcoates, Hessle, Yks RG10/4777 9 12
Joseph Watson, Head, Marr, 37, Farmer of 1360 acres employing 15 Labourers & 11 Boys B. Grange Kirk Ella
Martha Watson, Wife, Marr, 37 B. Brantingham, Yks
Ada Watson, Dau, Unm, 7, B. Kirk Ella
Ann Nicholson, Servant, Unm, 21, Housemaid B. Newland, Yks
Lavinia Andrew, Servant, Unm, 21, Cook B. West Ella Grange
Annie Srain/Snaie, Servant, Unm, 14, Nurse Girl B. Ridley, Yks
John McKee, Servant, Unm, 24, Groom B. Skirlaugh, Yks
Joseph Watson c 1857 son of Joseph & Martha Watson
1871 census Church Street, Great Driffield, Yorks RG10/4807 58 7
Arthur Watson, Boarder, 12 B. Kirk Ella - Mistranscribed as WaKson !! tis clear on original as Watson.
Joseph Watson, Boarder, 14 B. Kirk Ella
Schoolmaster was a Mr James Firth with wife Kate. There is 33 other boys listed. This would be a private school, possible connected with the Church.
1881 census Joseph's Father & Sister All Residing at Woodhouse, Cottingham, Sculcoates, Yks RG11/4748 110 9
Joseph Watson, Head, Widower, 47, Farmer of 3000 acres of land employing 34 men and 35 boys B. Kirk Ella
Annie Watson, Dau, Unm, 20 B. Kirk Ella
Harry Dalton, Visitor, Unm, 22, Merchant Clerk B. Hull, Yk
George Stephenson, Servant, Unm, 21, Groom Domestic B. Sutton, Yks
Emma Parrott, Servant, Unm, 19, Cook B. Paul, Yks
Possible Death for Martha Watson, Mar Q 1873, Sculcoates, Yks age 39 yrs
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Joseph Watson c 1857 son of Joseph & Martha Watson
1881 census All residing at Kirk Ella Grange Farm House, Hessle, Sculcoates, Yorks RG11/4750 85 6
Joseph Watsan born Kirk Ella, Head, Unm, 24, Farmer of 500 acres of land, employing 14 men.
Ada E Watsan, Sister, Unm, 17 B Kirk Ella.
Ellanor F. Bean - visitor - Unm, 16 B. Hull
Amy S. Bean - visitor - Unm, 16 B. Hull
Matilda Gravel, Servant, Marr, 20 Cook B. Epworth, Lincs
Elizabeth Kirby, Servant, Unm, 30, Housekeeper B. Sheffield
Eliza Fetherston Servant, Unm, 16 Housemaid Domestic B. West Ella, Yorks
Arthur Kirby, Servant, Unm, 16 Groom B. Anlaby, Yorks
George Taylor, Servant, Marr, 53 Shepherd B. Beverley, Yorks
Note surname was written as WatsAn
1891 census All residing at Farm House, Low Gardham, Etton, Cherry Burton, Beverley, Yorks RG12/3909 57 12
Joseph Watson Head, M, 33 Farmer & Employer B. Kirk Ella
Lavinia Watson Wife, M, 27 B. Hull
Joseph Watson son 7, Scholar B. Kirk Ella see 1901 census Melbourne, Butcher App
Dorothy E Watson dau 2 B. Gardham, Cherry Burton
Cyril D (Douglas?) Watson son 1 B. Gardham, Cherry Burton
Clara E Ridd/Rise Servant S. 30 School Governess Employed B. Hull
Jane Cooke/Croke? Servant S. 27 Housemaid (Domestic) B. Hull
Mary Kell Servant S. 24 Cook (Domestic) B. Foggathorpe
Mary Kay Servant S. 16 Nurse (Domestic) B. Dalton Holme
Geo W Crawford Servant S. 25 Groom (Domestic) B. Swanland
Possible Marriage for Joseph Watson to Lavinia Sanderson, Mar Q 1883, Sculcoates, Yks
Possible Birth for Lavinia Sanderson, Sep Q 1863 Hull 9d
Possible Birth Joseph Watson, Sculcoates Dec Q 1883
Possible Birth Dorothy Ethel Watson, Beverley Sep Q 1888
Possible Birth Cyril Douglas Watson, Beverley Mar Q 1890
1901 census All residing at Low Gardham, Cherry Burton, Beverley, Yorks RG13/4463 23 13
Joseph Watson Head 44 Married Farmer & Employer B. Kirk Ella
Dorothy E Watson dau 12 B. Gardham, Etton
Cyril D Watson son 11 B. Gardham, Etton
Enid L. J. Watson dau 5 B. Gardham, Etton
Kate Clarke Boarder S. 25 Governess/Domestic B. Hundon Clare, Suffolk
Ellen Glasby Servant S. 22 Housemaid/Domestic B. Hedon, Yorks
Jessie Hatfield Servant S. 31 Cook/Domestic B. Barton on Humber, Lincs
Mary J Sanderson Servant S. 16 Kitchenmaid/Domestic B. Sancton, Yorks
Ada R. Usher Servant S. 21 Nurse/Domestic B. Beverley
Birth Enid Lavinia J Watson, Sep Q 1895
Note:- No Lavinia Watson and Joseph is not noted as Widower either, but...
1901 census Nursing Home 22 Albion Street, Sculcoates (part of) Kingston Upon Hull RG13/4496 73 16
Lavinia Watson Married 36 Patient B. Hull
I would presume this was a private nursing home given the amount of Servants etc this family has employed over the years. The building is still standing, the numbers go in numerical order down one side of the street.
Possible Death for a Lavinia Watson Jun Q 1908 Beverley District 9d 44 yrs.
Lavinia died 1 yr after her husband Joseph Watson eloped with her pregnant Carer Alice Hood, to Canada.
1901 Census – Melbourne, York In the home of Arthur C Dales, Butcher
Joseph Watson 18, Servant – Butchers Assistant Born Cherry Burton (this could be because he ws living in CB on 1891 census, so maybe grew up there and thought that was his birthplace.
RG13/4453 34 13
Does anyone have any information on this Joseph Watson, did he return to live back home when his father eloped?? Who did he marry??
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Genuki – Kirk Ella http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ERY/Kirkella/index.html
Baines Directory 1823 http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ERY/Kirkella/Kirkella23.html
William Watson, Farmer, West Ella
Post Office Directory 1857 http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ERY/Kirkella/Kirkella57Dry.html
Joseph Watson, Farmer, at Grange Kirk Ella
William Watson, Farmer, at Grange Kirk Ella
Bulmer’s Directory 1892 http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ERY/Kirkella/Kirkella92Dry.html
Mrs Ann Watson, Trader, Kirk Ella
Kirk Ella Grange Farm is now in the hands of John Henry Tiffin & Son NOT Watson anymore, but maybe one of the dau’s married into the Tiffin family??
1834 Electoral Roll for the parish of Kirk Ella http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/Misc/CBW/ERYrolls/Kirkella.html
3723 Watson, Joseph Kirk Ella Grange 50 acres of land, as occupier Kirk Ella, Grange Farm
3747 Watson, William West Ella 150 acres of land, above the yearly rent of £50, and occupier West Ella Grange
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Canada Info for Joseph Watson & Alice Hood
1911 Canada Census @ Mimico Village
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1911/pdf/e002037533.pdf
Province.. Ontario
District No.. 136 York Centre
District No... 6
Enumeration District.. 1
Mimico Village, June 5-6th 1911
57 Buckingham Street. Watson, Joseph
Head 51 yrs Born March 1862 England.
Year of Emigration 1907.
Race English. Nationality Canadian.
Rel. Anglican. Can Read & Write. Speaks English.
Occ Gardener 0.6.08. Weeks employed in 1910 = 35 wks. Total earning in 1910 = 350. Insurance Upon Life = 200. Cost of Insurance in current year = 1300.
Alice, wife 27 yrs Dec 1883 England.
Year of Emigration 1907.
Race English, Nationality Canadian. Rel, Anglican. Can Read & Write, Speaks English
William Gordon, Son, 3 yrs born Aug 1907 Ontario. Race English. Nationality, Canadian. Speaks English
Zena Martha, Dau, 3mths born Feb 1911 Ontario.
Lodgers with them..
Ainsworth, John 23 yrs Born Sep 1887 England. S. Year of Emigration 1908. Methodist. Labourer Nationality. Canadian
Ainsworth, Robert 21 yr Born Jun 1889 England. S. Year of Emigration 1911 Methodist Labourer Nationality English
Ainsworth, William 15 yrs Born July 1895 England. S. Year of Emigration 1910 Methodist Pipe Maker. Nationality Canadian
Information of:-
William Gordon Gray Watson 1907 & Zena Martha Alice Watson 1911
No marriage details found for Joseph Watson to Alice Hood, although they became members of the All Staints Anglican Church in Robinson Street Niagaga Falls. They are both buried there. Joseph Watson born 1857 and died 1931 Stamford township Niagara Falls. Alice Hood born 1885 died 1979 aged 94
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Chalk Villa
The building is still standing, it looks an impressive house. It is situated up a private drive so this is a picture taken from a public track. Unfortunately it is of the rear
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wow SteveJW, that is impressive isn't it.
Thank you, I know someone will be happy with that.
bendywendy
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Alice Hood
I think this is the row of terraced houses where Alice was living in 1901
First picture is looking toward the town, second picture looking from the town
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Same area from Ordanace Survey map dated 1910
Aknowledgement to Ordanance Survey, copywright expired.
Copywright is for 50 years as detailed on O/S website
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Well these houses look old enough to have been there at the time, these type of houses are maybe c late 1880's ish give or take a few years, don't think they would be before 1880, but I stand to be corrected on this.
Any pics of what was the nursing home where Lavinia was in 1901??? is that the area you mentioned abt the numbers now being in numerical order as the other side of street has "disappeared"??
bendywendy
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1901 census Nursing Home 22 Albion Street, Sculcoates (part of) Kingston Upon Hull RG13/4496 73 16
Lavinia Watson Married 36 Patient B. Hull
Have you considered Lavinia was expecting a child
Cannot say any more due to restrictions on 1911 census
Bendywendy these are the houses in Beverley now numbered 1,3, 5 etc, as peviously stated I think the 1901 census does not give the house number but the number the property is on the schedule
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thanks SteveJW,
Patient, with child, makes sense of what I have seen too.
Yes I recall abt the numbers and the schedule numbers now Steve, thanks.
b
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Broadgate
What evidence have you got that Joseph Watson lived at Chalk Villa, it may be enough to persuade the people who live there now to let me enter the property and take some better photographs
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Hi SteveJW
I will contact Broadgates on this matter and be back with a reply soonest.
b.
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Thanks for all this info. The Canadians arrive Sunday.
The Hood story is that Alice worked at Chalk Villa's, but I don't know who lived there at the time, the story then goes on to say she eloped with a gentleman farmer.
The Canadian Watson story is that Alice was the nurse to Joseph Watsons wife until her death and then they both went off to Canada (we know that is not quite true). I notice she is not on any of the census for Low Gardham farm, though there is reference to two other persons at that farm who are nurses, so Alice could well have turned up at the farm for the employment of nurse after the 1901 census , but Lavinia is also not on that census due to being in the nursing home in Hull, so did Lavinia return for a sort while only then to be nursed by Alice and then again return to the nursing home. It must have been some sort of illness that required some sort of intensive care.
So not to sure how these two became acquainted in order to become lovers.
Broadgate.
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The York Herald (York, England), Monday, July 18, 1887;
Beverley police court
Ellen Roberts a tramp pleaded guily to stealing a skirt from a hedge, the propery of Mrs Watson of Chalk Villa , and was sent to prison for one month.
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A little more on the family.
The Hull Packet and East Riding Times Friday, February 5, 1847
Death
February 2nd after a long and protracted illness borne with Christian meekness and resignation Barry Wride second son of Joseph Watson , Kirk Ella Grange aged 19.
The Hull Packet and East Riding Times Friday, September 10, 1847
Death
Sept 8th of consumption after a long and painfull illness, Anna the wife of John Atkinson of this town and the second daughter of Mr Joseph Watson , Kirk Ella Grange aged 28.
The Hull Packet and East Riding Times Friday, April 9, 1852
Marriage
April 7th at Holy Trinity Church Mr Edward Ingleby of Hull to Miss Ellen Watson daughter of the late William Watson Esq, Kirk Ella Grange.
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Wow, thanks for this info, so the Watson s did live at chalk villa. I wonder if Joseph Watson had two properties Chalk villa and Low Gardham Farm ?
So Alice Hood did work at Chalk Villa and this must have been where she encounted Joseph Watson with whom she eloped off to Canada with.
Broadgate
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I,ve just worked it out that when the skirt was stolen the property must have been owned by Joseph Watson the grandparents to Joseph Watson who eventually ran off to Canada so I now wonder if this property remained in the family until such time that Joseph the grandson either aquired it or another member of the Watson family/ this would then bear out the fact that Alice worked for the Watsons.
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Chalk Villa, Beverley. This is all I can find so far.
Some of these are not really linked to your thread, but might be of help in working out when the Watsons were there, and of some interest to someone.
Finding the right Watsons is more difficult, there are so many of them.
The Hull Packet Friday, February 27, 1835
Inquest at Beverley held at the house of Mr Wm Brown , the Chalk Villa Beverley, on the view of the body of George Merrit aged 15 who was found hanging in an outhouse adjoining the premises.
Deceased had made a prior attempt of a similer nature and the jury were of the opinion that it was not his intention to hang himself but merely to try the sensation occasioned by hanging which unfortunatley proved a fatal experiment.
The Hull Packet and East Riding Times Friday, May 25, 1849
On Monday as the foreman of Mr Ralph Dunning was at his work at Chalk Villa he fell into a lime kiln and injured himself severley, surgical aid was speedily prepared and he is in a fair state of recovery.
The Hull Packet and East Riding Times Friday, October 19, 1849
Death.Oct 12 at Chalk Villa Beverley aged 55 very suddenly Mr Charles Symonds greatly respected by all who knew him.
The Leeds Mercury Saturday, December 18, 1858;
Death. On Saturday last of cancer aged 33 at her uncle`s Thorpe le Williows, Ellen Swann eldest daughter of the late Deputy Commisioner General Brown , Chalk Villa Beverley.
The York Herald Thursday, October 25, 1877;
Birth.
On 17th Sept at Chalk Villa Beverly , the wife of Joseph Goodfellow Esq of a son.
The Hull Packet and East Riding Times Friday, May 1, 1885
Arhtur Pearce, engine driver Chalk Villa Beverley was charged with refusing to quit licensed premises .
The Yorkshire Herald, Tuesday, June 21, 1892
Beverley.George Selburn of Chalk Villa summoned for riding a bicycle on a footpath after he ran over a little boy .
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Hi
According to the census I found for the Watson's it wasn't until 1891 that the Watson's entered Low Gardham, Cherry Burton, now is this Chalk Villa where they lived??
I have had another look at the original census info and the schedule there is 14 pages, the Watson's are on page
13 ...
the census starts at Page 1 No 1 Wold Farm, followed No 2 Furrows followed No 3 The Grange followed No dunken Hill...
page 10 the Primitive Methodist Chapel is No 68 on the Market Weighton Road..
then working from page 12 No 78 Market Weighton Road then to No between 83/84 Manor House home of Jackson - Farmer
then onto page 13 Manor House continued then No 84 Market Weighton Road home of Anderson - Farmer
then onto No 85 Low Gardham - Farmer home of Joseph Watson & wife Lavinia
followed by No 86 Low Gardham home of Piercy - Hind and lots of boarders/servants. - this one is the last entry for Cherry Burton
From the above it should be easy for someone with local knowledge to work out which properties are still standing in respect of Low Gardham. Is No 85 Chalk Villa and could No 68 be cottages?? could this property be part of the Watson's??
b.
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Now can anyone find this person on this census... I have looked n looked, even tried looking through all the Hull census returns BUT I cannot find ST Jude !!!!! :o
I think this is the child Lavinia had either before or during her stay at the Nursing Home, but where was he staying ??
taken from familysearch.org, but I cannot find him on the 1901 census with these details
name: Harold Watson
event: Census
event date: 31 Mar 1901
gender:
age: 0
relationship to head of household: Visitor
birthplace: Gardham, Yorkshire
record type: Household
registration district: Hull
sub-district: Myton
ecclesiastical parish: St Jude
civil parish: Holy Trinity And St Mary
county: Hull, Myton, Holy Trinity And St Mary, Yorkshire (East Riding)
bendywendy
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Chalk Villa in Beverley, is about half a mile from Queensgate
Low Gardham is about five miles from, Beverley. If my memory is correct there are only about four cottages there. If I get out on the bike (bicycle) at the weekend I will take a picture
Will look at the census further
Little bit confused regarding Harold and familysearch.org
Harold is down as born at Gardham on 31st March 1901 (census day) this is in East Yorkshire, not Hull so would not be in the Hull registration district but would be Beverley. That would make St Judes wrong
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Hi SteveJW
thanks,
as for Harold, well still trying to find where he is, been at this for 2 days now!!!! if only it gave the Head of Household name, would make things easier, do you think he could have been taken to someone to be looked after, like a Wet Nurse if his mother was ill, so he could have been living in Hull???
take a look at this photo, what do you think, The large white house is Low Gardham Farmhouse and Gardham Cottages are behind it.. scroll down the page for more pictures....
http://www.geolocation.ws/v/W/4cf224951d41c86e2c0074b4/low-gardham-east-riding-of-yorkshire/en
Furrows Farm, on 1891 census was schedule No 2 on page 1
http://www.geolocation.ws/v/W/4d6f2b888786560f75001f8e/furrows-farm-near-gardham-looking-south/en
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Could this be Harold.
Births Jun 1901
WATSON Harry, Sculcoates 9d 237
Modified , perhaps not. ???
1901 RG13; Piece: 4495; Folio: 159; Page: 23. Living in Sculcoats.
Harry Watson 1 month, son of Edward and Louisa.
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could be, Harry for Harold and if he was born in Q before but towards the end then he may well have been registered in this Q.
Cherry Burton, which takes in Gardham is in Beverley Registration, so wht abt this... Harold Watson Dec Q 1900 BEVERLEY 9d
There is another Harold W but born Sculcoates Dec Q 1900, but this covers the Kirk/West Ella area not Gardham?
Also found these for Passenger Lists..Travelling between 1911-1930 to Canada
Birth Year Year of Travel From To
WATSON Harold Unknown M 1911 Liverpool Canada Montreal
WATSON Harold Unknown M 1911 Liverpool Canada Quebec
WATSON Harold 1901 M 1912 Bristol Canada Quebec
WATSON Harold 1902 M 1920 Liverpool Canada Saint John NB
WATSON Harold R 1900 M 1922 Southampton Canada Montreal
Does anyone have access to view the passenger list details please??
bendywendy
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BUT I cannot find ST Jude !!!!!
1901 census for Holy Trinity Hull, District 12 enumerators route .
Sub district Myton, Civil parish Holy Trinity, ( part of) Ecclesiastical parish St Jude, ( part of ) so where was the other part.
District 25 is St Thomas.
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umh, where is it???
I have waded my way through to District 1-24 and no sign of him being mis-placed/transcribed, as yet!
Districts 3 & 5 are not listed for Holy Trinity & St Mary
Holy Trinity St Mary (no and) has Districts 25-33 plus District Hull Royal Infirmary
Holy Trinity (Myton) has Districts 2a, 3, 4, 5, to 50. District 5 is St Judes, just looking through this lot now.
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A friend has found it on FindMyPast.
1901
117 Argyle Sreet Kingston upon Hull, Holy Trinity, St Jude.
Francis J Barrick ? 41 printer compositor
Mary wife
Percy son 12
Alice Johnson boarder S 41 sick nurse own acc b Hull
Harold Watson visitor 4 mon ? hard to make out. b Gardham
I can email you image if you like. send a PM.
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Ah thanks wilcoxon,
Sick Nurse, is this same as Wet Nurse?? or was Harold ill, maybe born prematurely?? but if this is him then his mother must have been really ill to still be in the Nursing Home 1901. I wonder if this woman took Harold for breast feeding to his mother and that is why he was living in Hull and not being nursed at home??
Argyle Street, is the road that runs down side of Hull Royal Infirmary, off Anlaby Road onto Springbank Ave. Originally called Asylum Lane as that is where the Hull & East Riding Refuge for the Insane 1838 was.
Albion Street, Nursing Home, is east of Argyle, in City centre off Ferensway, 10 mins walk between them.
...most likely is the Harold Watson we are looking for, so this could be him that I posted earlier Harold Watson Dec Q 1900 BEVERLEY 9d as that would make him abt 4 mths if born towards end of that Q 1900 as census was end March 1901.
b.
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1891 census
Alice Johnson was an Officer/Nurse age 31 born Hull - at Liverpool Workhouse, Mount Pleasant, Liverpool, Lancs. RG12/2917 65 4
this one does not appear on the 1901 census at any workhouse or similar, age and POB matches.
The other family Barrick on the 1891 census too, 10 Hilda's Gnore? Printer Letterpress, 1 child Percy.
Sculcoates, Kingston upon Hull, part of Beverley.
His father was a Printer Compositor too b. Hull. 1871 cen Vincent St, Sculcoates, Hull RG10/4784 70 7
I wonder if these printers did the Letterheads etc for the Watson's and maybe Mary Barrick is the sister to Alice Johnson...
Marriage for Francis John Barrick to Mary Johnson @ Sculcoates Jun Q 1884
FJB Parents
William Sharpe Barrick married Elizabeth Skelton @ Hull Dec Q 1840
b.
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SteveJW, please
48 Grovehill Road, Beverley is the next stop for information.
b.
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Passenger Lists.... found the elopers!! Only the basic transcribed image, can anyone help with a full image please? maybe a few more details on the original.
Name: Mrs WATSON departure: 17 January 1907 Port of departure: Liverpool
Passenger destination port: Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada
Passenger destination: Saint John NB, Canada
Date of Birth: 1882 25 yr Married Occupation: Wife
The following people are potential travelling companions from your search: -
Jos WATSON
IONIAN
J W Numan
Allan Line
Saint John NB, Canada
~~~~~~~~~~
Name: Jos WATSON departure: 17 January 1907 Port of departure: Liverpool
Passenger destination port: Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada
Passenger destination: Saint John NB, Canada
Date of Birth: 1858 49 yrs Married Occupation: Lab
The following people with the same last name travelled on this voyage: -
Mrs WATSON
IONIAN
J W Numan
Allan Line
Saint John NB, Canada
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now did they marry here in UK, bigamously, before departure, or did they marry Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada before moving further into Canada??
I presume they would have needed passports?? anyone know anything abt finding those??
DEATH:
Joseph Watson
Death date: 05 Sep 1931 place: Stamford Twp, Welland, Ontario, Canada
70 yrs
Father: Joseph Watson
Mother: Martha Walker
Digital Folder No: 4002313
bendywendy
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Barrick,
Not really involved in the thread, but may be of use to someone out there. :)
The Hull Packet Friday, December 31, 1841
Death, On Friday 24th after a short but severe illness in the 20th year of his age, John Sharpe Barrick printer, youngest son of the late W Barrick basket maker of this town.
The Hull Packet Friday, October 16, 1840
Marriage . On Monday 12th inst at St Marys by the Rev R Hancock, Mr William Sharpe Barrick printer to Ann eldest daughter of the late Mr James Satters both of this place.
There are also metions of a W J Barrick printer of Hull.
-
you help is greatly appreciated wilcoxon.. and interesting info too.
Broadgates is busy putting the info in order for the Canadian Rellies arrival on Sunday and still no direct
rellie found for them to meet or contact, fingers crossed.
b.
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The Ships List
http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/lines/allan.html
The Allan Line / Montreal Ocean Steamship Company
1901 - 1917 Liverpool - Halifax - St. John NB (winter)
Ionian Built 1901 1917 transferred to Canadian Pacific; torpedoed and sunk off Milford Haven; loss of 7 lives.
She was built by Workman Clark & Co Ltd, Belfast in 1901 for the Allan Line of Liverpool. Her details were - 8,268 gross tons, length 470ft x beam 57.5ft, one funnel, four masts, twin screw and a speed of 14 knots. There was accommodation for 132-1st, 160-2nd and 800-3rd class passengers. Launched on 12/9/1901, she sailed on her maiden voyage from Liverpool to Halifax and St John NB on 21/11/1901. On 15/5/1902 she commenced her first voyage from Liverpool to Quebec and Montreal and on 27/5/1905 started her first Glasgow - Quebec - Montreal run. On 17/5/1906 she resumed the Liverpool - Quebec - Montreal service and on 20/7/1907 went back to the Glasgow - Quebec - Montreal run. In 1909 she was converted to carry 325-2nd and 800-3rd class passengers and started her first London - Quebec - Montreal voyage on 25/4/1912. Her last run on this service started on 30/7/1914 and she then went onto trooping duties to Bombay via Suez. In 1917 she went to Canadian Pacific who had taken over Allan Line, but returned to trooping in October of that year. On 21/10/1917 she was sunk by a mine laid off Milford Haven by the German submarine UC.51 with the loss of 7 lives. [North Atlantic Seaway by N.R.P.Bonsor, vol.1,p.322]
Saint John, New Brunswick - Photo
http://www.theshipslist.com/pictures/saintjohnNB1898.htm
Logo of Montreal Ocean Steam Ship Line Logo, (Allan Line)
http://www.theshipslist.com/pictures/mosslogo.html
I think this is the picture of the Ionian, scroll to the bottom of page
http://ronaldimiller.com/ships.htm
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Possible marriages for:-
Dorothy E Watson to Fawcett Pudsey @ Sculcoates Sep Q 1912
Possible birth for:-
Fawcett Pudsey @ Hull Dec Q 1882
Possible births for Pudsey (F) Watson (M)
Allan F Pudsey, Edward E Pudsey, Harold E (R) H Pudsey all east coastal area
Now if I am correct with this Fawcett Pudsey, he too came from a wealthy family with servants.
1901 census 200 Anlaby Road, Holy Trinity, St Matthew, West Hull RG13/4504 86 6
H Fawcett Pudsey, M, 54 Born Hull. Gen Merchant Co, Vol ?? Artillery. Own A/c
Clara, M, 50 Wife B. Hull
Eleanor, S, 27 Dau B. ""
Hilda, S, 26 Dau B. ""
Lilian, S, 23 Dau B. ""
Arnold, S, 21 Son B. """ Timber Merchant CC to Clerk
Fawcett, S, 18 Son B. "" Machinist Engineer Apprentice. Worker
Gertrude Walford, S, 18 Servant B. Hull. Cook Domestic
Eva E Levitt, S, 16 Servant B. Hull. Under Housemaid Domestic
Possible marriage for:-
Henry Fawcett Pudsey to Clara Denison @ Hull Sep Q 1872
Working on the info above of H Fawcett Pudsey dealing in Artillery, could this also be him too...
Colonel H Fawcett-Pudsey Hull Museums Collections
http://www.hullcc.gov.uk/museumcollections/collections/search-results/contactsheet.php?newsearch=new&person=H.+Fawcett-Pudsey,+artist&keywords=&title=&place=&date=&material=&accessionnumber=&sorton=date
THE LONDON GAZETTE, DECEMBER 28, 1906. 9183
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/27980/pages/9183/page.pdf
For the East Riding of the County of York
Henry Fawcett Pudsey, Sutton, Hull - bottom right
I cannot find what this is about??
The Transactions of the East Riding Antiquarian Society - printed 1898
http://www.archive.org/stream/transactions37socigoog#page/n6/mode/2up
Colonel H Fawcett Pudsey, 6 Crown Terrace, Hull List of Members page xi
Hull Trades & Professions 1892
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:q8WV_pyB9FEJ:www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/Misc/Transcriptions/ERY/Hull1892StreetsA.html+h+fawcett+pudsey,+hull&cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&source=www.google.co.uk
Anlaby road (Henry's arcade, Carr lane)
Crown Terrace
6 Pudsey Lieut.-Col. Henry Fawcett
Broadgates, I think you may need to purchase the marriage cert for this Dorothy E Watson to see if it is the dau of Joseph Watson
bendywendy
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A bit on the Fawcetts`s. Not much to be found ???
The York Herald Saturday, September 07, 1872
On the 29th inst at St Marys Hull by the Rev John Scott and the Rev J W Hunt,
Henry Fawcett Pudsey Esq. to Clara eldest daughter of Councillor William Denison, Hull
The Sheffield & Rotherham Independent Monday, April 30, 1900
After a false rumour that the Yorkshire Penny bank was in `trouble` over 1220 people
rushed to withdraw their money. Colonel H Fawcett Pudsey was one of the directors.
The Yorkshire Herald Saturday, October 31, 1899
Colonel H Fawcett Pudsey awared the prizes at the Artillery
competition at Park St Barracks
The Yorkshire Herald,Friday, May 25, 1894
Freemasons
H Fawcett Pudsey mentioned as member of the Eboracum Lodge
The Yorkshire Herald, Saturday, December 03, 1892
LOCAL VOLUNTEER OFFICER DECORATIONS
Colonel H Fawcett Pudsey awarded by Royal warrant.
The Hull Packet Friday, March 30, 1883
Mrs H Fawcett Pudsey took part in an amatuer dramatic performance :)
The Yorkshire Herald, Saturday, October 07, 1899
EAST RIDING ANTIQUARIAN SOCIETY .
Colonel H Pudsey mentioned in a `visit` to Goodmanham.
DENISON
The York Herald Saturday, December 20, 1884
Death On the 12th inst Alderman William Denison of Hull aged 65
The Hull Packet Friday, February 29, 1884 . ( connected ? )
Patents furnished by Hughes & son 5 Chancery lane London.
Frederick William Denison Hull -wine merchant for an invention of `Improved apparatus for discerning the height of liquids in casks and barrels`
The Hull Packet Friday, December 17, 1875
William Denison, Alderman 5 Anlaby Road Hull. elected to comitee to award shares in the Hull Street Tramways Company
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THE LONDON GAZETTE, 14 DECEMBER, 1915 12493
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/29402/pages/12493/page.pdf
Re Colonel HENRY FAWCETT PUDSEY,
Deceased.
Pursuant to the Act of Parliament 22nd and 23rd
Vic., cap. 35, intituled " An Act to further amend the Law of Property and to relieve Trustees."
NOTICE is hereby given, that all creditors and other persons having any claims or demands against the estate of Henry Fawcett Pudsey, formerly of "The Hall," Sutton-on-Hull, in the East Riding of the county of York. Justice of the Peace for the city and county of Kingston-upon-Hull, the rest is not scanned...!!!
FreeBMD Henry F Pudsey 68 yrs @ Sculcoates Sep Q 1915
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UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960 Record for
Fawcett Pudsey of Carlton Lodge, Cliff Road, Hornsea, East Yorkshire. Age 41. Occ Civil Engineer.
Port of Departure West Indies. Ship Intaba. Port of Arrival London. Harrison Line No 129345. 18th June 1924
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1518&iid=30807_A000768-00631&fn=Fawcett&ln=Pudsey&st=r&ssrc=gr_t27238447_p5028266649_ktidz0q3d27238447z0q26pidz0q3d5028266649z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q252c32768z0q252c32782z0q26pgPLz0q3dpidz0q252cpidz0q252ctidz0q257cpidz0q26pgPSz0q3d5028266649_h6342576438&pid=5224413
Now this most likely bears out the children that were born to a Pudsey Father and Watson Mother on the East Coast.
But is the Dorothy E Watson, the wife of Fawcett Pudsey, the dau of Joseph Watson & Lavinia Sanderson ??????
Broadgates is rather busy getting ready for the arrival, tomorrow, of the Canadian Grandson of this Joseph Watson who eloped to Canada, so
he has told me to do whatever to try and find some rellies, so I will open a new thread for Pudsey family at Hornsea and see if anyone can clarify
anything about the wife of this Pudsey.
bendywendy
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National Probate Calendar .
Henry Fawcett Pudsey of The Hall , Sutton on Hull died 4 the Sept 1915 probate 25 th October 1915 to John Campell Thompson Esq.
justice of the peace and Arnold Pudsey captain Royal Artillery Garrison and Arthur Tinley Sissons captiain Royal Artillery Medical Corps.
Effects £8457 6s 3d
Lavinia Watson of 12 Grove Terrace , Grove Hill Road ,Beverley ( wife of Joseph Watson) died 2nd May 1908. Probate London 27 May to Charles Fisher and Alan Kershaw esquires. Effects £2254 15s 4 d.
Interesting she is still described as `wife`.
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I have recd info regarding the Death & Burial of Joseph Watson in Canada.
Death
Joseph Watson 70 yrs Caretaker Born England cause of death Apoplexy
Burial
All Saints, Niagara Falls, September 7th 1931, Block G, Range 18, Grave 1, Cost of Grave 20.00 (I believe this is a single grave)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nothing can be found for his wife Alice Watson at the same cemetery which is where she is buried, so I am wondering if she remarried??
No Baptism's can be found at same church for the children, so maybe they were baptised somewhere in Mimico before they moved to Niagara Falls??
bendywendy
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There is a print of Chalk Villa, Beverley @ Treasure House, Beverley
Art. Print. Burton, Thomas Bonfrey
Beverley
Ink; paper; card
W:55/28cm, L:40.5/38cm
View up the lane (stone wall on the right) to a white walled house, evening scene. The building stands on the west side of Victoria Road, accessible via a driveway. It was built in 1835-9 for William Brown, an army officer, probably with chalk blocks from the nearby quarry.
ERYMS (BAG) : 1997.458
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Also at Treasure House, Beverley
Indictment of Maria Fay wife of John Fay of Kirkella, labourer 8 Apr 1851
steal 4 hempen sacks value 6 pence each from Joseph Watson at Kirk Ella
Transportation 10 years
Previously convicted 3 Jul 1849 by the name of Mary Scott wife of John Scott
Witness: George Spenceley, George Pashby
QSF/571/B/33
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At Treasure House, Beverley
Kirk Ella Grange (as noted on census info)
Sales particulars relating to Kirkella Grange, Riplingham Road, Kirk Ella Feb 1991
Includes photographs of exterior of building and floor plan
SP/2/124/19
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Some info of who owned/tenanted Kirk Ella Grange before Joseph Watson....
Award of John Dalton of Kirk Ella Grange gentleman 23 Dec 1811
Dispute over tenancy and tenant rights between Thomas Leason of Ellerker and Teavil Leason of Everthorp gentlemen.
DDBD/68/18
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Picture of Kirk Ella Grange, The farmhouse at Kirkella Grange, looking north across Riplingham Road.
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1185890 © Copyright Paul Glazzard
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Woodhouse Farm, Cottingham, as noted on 1881 census, at Treasure House, Beverley
Sales particulars relating to Woodhouse Farm, Raywell Jun 1988
Includes photographs of interior and exterior of building, floor and location plans
SP/2/180/7
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Re: Lavinia Watson death of 12 Grove Terrace, this area was redeveloped 1975 and is part of Norwood, Beverley.
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Hello, I have been searching for information on this family for a while so was really pleased to come across this. Enid Lavinia Julia Watson(daughter of Joseph and lavinia Watson) was my grandfathers mother.
My grandfather was born in 1917 and was then adopted,(Peter Watson) so we have very little info about his real family.
I would love to hear more about Enid L J Watson if anyone has any more information?
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Good morning cpncpn
Wow, someone at last who is related to this family.
I know that the living rellie in Canada would love to be in touch with you personally.
What you read on this thread is what has been found for the family, no one else has come forward.
I will PM you my email address, I can take it from there by putting you in contact with the living rellie in Canada.
bendywendy
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Hi cpncpn
Where was your grandfather born?? His mother was living in Beverley, E. Yorks on last available census.
Was he put for adoption immediately or sometime afterwards??
Have you found his adoption details. The reason I ask, see info below, do you know to whom he was placed with and when???
Adoption Search Reunion
http://www.adoptionsearchreunion.org.uk/search/righttosearch/lawbasics.htm
Adoption law: the basics
When did adoption become legal?
In England and Wales adoption first became legal in 1926, while in Northern Ireland it was 1929 and in Scotland it was 1930.
Does this mean that there were no such thing as adoption before then?
Before the introduction of legislation adoptions were arranged informally by organisations, or directly between the birth mother and adopting parents, and in some cases agreements may have been drawn up by lawyers. Permanent placements may also have been made by Guardians of the Poor or Public Assistance bodies and county record offices are now the main holders of this information.
Were all adoptions arranged through a registered adoption agency or local authority?
No, not all adoptions were arranged through a local authority or voluntary adoption agency. Until 1983 private adoptions were legal. These were placements arranged through private individuals, often doctors, nurses, lawyers, local vicar etc. In such cases there was no Adoption Agency involved in the placement of the child with prospective adoptive parents. For people who were adopted privately it can be a much harder to find information about their adoption. In these situations it is possible that the court records will have some background information.
bendywendy
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Hello, my grandma thinks that one of the servants or servants friends/mothers adopted him. We knew she was living in Beverley. We are all still living close by.
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I have two photos of Enid L J Watson, which I will try to find and post on here.
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thanks, so I take it your grandfather is now departed??
Have you got my email address I have sent to you?
sending a PM to you.
bendywendy
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Attached a photo of Joeseph Watson
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Hi broadgate
Isn't it wonderful that someone has come forward re Enid... struggling to find anything for her though.
I have been working with cpncpn offline and offered info of what to do to see if they can trace her through the Parish Registers, a long haul, but one never knows unless one tries.
I wonder if Enid has any resemblence to Joseph, hoping cpncpn can upload a photo of her.
Hope you are well and your rellie in Canada too.
bendywendy
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Thanks again for your help in assisting my canadian rel, hope you are in contact with them and have notified them of this rel on the watson side of the family.
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Canadians now been emailed, hopefully they make contact with cpncpn.
bendywendy
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These records are held at Hull History Centre
The Newington Board of Health
Applications for the post of working road foreman
Ref No C BHN/10/11/11
Application from Joseph Watson, Kirk Ella Grange
Date 1874
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Papers of the Hotham Family of Scorborough and South Dalton
Ref No U DDHO/x3/49/25
Building Scheme: Cherry Burton: Gardham Farm, tenant Joseph Watson: 4 new cottages
Date 4 Jun 1886
Surveyor's report
Ref No U DDHO/x3/49/9
Building Scheme: Cherry Burton: Gardham Farm, tenant Joseph Watson: improved water supply
Date 10 Dec 1884
Ref No. U DDHO/x3/49/88
Building Scheme: Etton: Gardham Farm, tenant Joseph Watson: covered yard
Date May 1893
Ref No. U DDHO/x3/49/2
Building Scheme: High Gardham, Cherry Burton: land in occupation of Joseph Watson:open sheds and cowhouse.
Date 9 Jun 1884
All the above include a general outline with locational plan (derived from 6 in. O.S.), plus a detailed building spec and plan.
Ref No. U DDHO/x2/7/3
Inventory of fixtures at Gardham Farm.
Date 20th cent.
Ref No. U DDHO/x2/5/24
Lease. Joseph Watson jnr.
Date 24 Mar 1884
Gardham Farm in Cherry Burton and Scorborough (1144ac.1r. 9p.)
Ref No. U DDHO/x2/5/25
Lease. Joseph Watson senr.
Date 29 Jan 1887
Gardham Farm in Cherry Burton and Scorborough (1144ac. 1r.9p.): With counterpart.
Ref No. U DDHO/x2/5/26
Lease. Joseph Watson senr.
Date 13 Mar 1891
Gardham Farm in Cherry Burton and Scorborough (1144ac. 1r.9p.): With counterpart.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kirk Ella Estate Papers (Property of Joseph Sykes)
Kirk Ella Estate (Kirk Ella; West Ella; Ferriby; Swanland; Willerby)
Ref No. U DDKE/8/41
10 Aug - 12 Nov 1720
(a) Final Concord: for ?200: Robert Walker, Henry Watson & Richard Burton plaintiffs & many others, deforceants: 3 messuages, 12ac. land, 3ac. pasture and pasture for 6 beasts in Hull, Hessle, West Elley and Kirk Elley: (12 November 1720)
(b) Will of Henry Watson of Swanland. Bequests to sons Henry, John, William, Thomas and Samuel; daughters Mary and Margaret: farm in Swanland. 3 closes at Seaton. Close and 10ac. in fields of Kirk Ella and West Ella: Witnessed James Fox, Elizabeth Watson, Timothy Williamson. 10 August 1720. Probate 25 September 1723.
Ref No. U DDKE/8/50
Final Concord: for ?60: Joseph Sykes esq. plaintiff and William Watson senr. and jnr. deforceants
Date 8 Jul 1764
Description Messuage, 2 curtilages, garden, orchard, 10ac. land, 5ac. meadow and 10ac. pasture in Swanland, Kirk Ella and West Ella.
Ref No. U DDKE/8/151
Exchange between William Watson of Kirk Ella yeoman and Walter Kettilby
Date 20 Nov 1748
Walter Kettilby to have 3r. and William Watson to have 1ac. 1r. in fields of West Ella (locations specified): Witnessed W. Parke, Robt. Hanson.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There is several documents for other Watson @ West Ella...
U DRA/182 John Watson of West Ella, Yeoman, bond for Anthony Brough of Hull a Mariner. Oct 1742
U DBR/46 Will of Thomas Shaw the elder of Swanland farmer mentions his dau Mary wife of William Watson of West Ella a Farmer. 20 May 1800
C CQE/2/110 Information of John Watson of West Ella, husbandman: Thomas Gamwell, his servant, had absconded. 30 Jun 1749
C CRD/15 William Watson, constable of West Ella reporting the absence of dissenting meeting houses there. 13 Jul 1829
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Cherry Burton - School Records U DDCB/4/344 1885 - 1887 U DDCB/4/345 1887 U DDCB/4/346 1888 - 1890
"" "" - School Cash Book U DDCB/4/343 1868 - 1890
West Ella Methodist Sunday School C DCT/1224 no date (Opened 1895)
Kirk Ella Parish Registers held at Treasure House, Beverley
zPE174 - KIRK ELLA ST ANDREW AND WILLERBY ST LUKE PARISH RECORDS
Finding No. PE174
SL73/1 for school log book 1889-1950
see this link for further info http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/Misc/CBW/ERY/Kirkella.html
Cherry Burton Parish Registers held at Treasure House, Beverley
zPE69 - CHERRY BURTON ST MICHAEL PARISH RECORDS
Finding No. PE69
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Parish Registers to Read Online
Cherry Burton http://www.archive.org/stream/registersofparis15cher#page/n5/mode/2up
Kirk Ella http://www.archive.org/stream/registerofkirkel11kirk#page/n5/mode/2up
there are lots of Watson listed - but NO Watson listed that are mentioned in this thread..... the following may explain why...
"""in brief from preface of above book... the parish of Kirk Ella upto 1878 covered an area of 7 miles long x 4.5 miles wide. Its boundaries included what is now known as a large part of Newington Parish of Hull, the whole of what is now known as the civil parish of Kirk Ella and all that of Willerby (except the detached portion of Cottingham), a small part of West Ella, about half of Anlaby, besides a detached part of Kirk Ella in Swanland. The parish of Hessle claims the other half of Anlaby: and that of North Ferriby the greater portion of Swanland and of West Ella"""
Is seems it could be a headache finding entries for folk ??? at least one knows where to look elsewhere.
Wolfreton, Willerby, West Ella, Anlaby all come under Kirk Ella
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ERY/Kirkella/index.html
Swanland, Anlaby, Dairy Coates, Braffords (Swanland) all come under North Ferriby http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ERY/Northferriby/index.html
Willerby, Spring Head, Raywell, Newland, Hull Bank, Dunswell all come under Cottingham
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ERY/Cottingham/index.html
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Enid Lavinia Julia Watson.
-
Enid Lavinia Julia Watson.
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Hi cpncpn
So this is Enid .... ;D Do you know roughly how old she was here.
I wonder what her sister Dorothy looked like then??? I am hoping that I may have found
a living rellie of Dorothy, her Granddaughter, just hoping it becomes fruitful.
Not heard from Canadian, maybe they are on hols, will let you know when I do.
bendywendy
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I have been given contact details of a possible living granddaughter to Dorothy Ethel Watson sister to Enid Watson.
I will reply back on this thread when I know further details if she is indeed related to this Dorothy.
bendywendy
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Hi there. I've found this thread very interesting, especially since Joseph Watson the eloper is my 1st cousin three times removed. His aunt Sarah was my great great grandmother. It's a small world.....
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Hi Pankpop
Thanks for that snippet of info, tis really an interesting story, have you followed the info with the other links too??
When you say "aunt" which side, maternal or paternal line?? If you would like to add any info, please feel free to do so.
Now, would you like to be aquainted with these living rellies?? if so, let me know.
bendywendy
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Joseph's paternal aunt, Sarah Watson (b. 1826), daughter of Joseph b. 1785, was my gg grandmother. She married George Henry Wilson and they were, in fact, the "visitors" at Kirk Ella Grange in the 1851 census with their first son, James.
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I can now confirm that the "E" in Dorothy E Watson marriage to Fawcett Pudsey is in fact E for Ethel.
I am in contact with the granddaughter of Dorothy Ethel Watson but any details will remain confidential at
this time.
bendywendy
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I keep plodding with info for this family..
On 1911 Census Summary Books I have found a listing for a Mrs Watson of Mablefield 11 Grovehill Road, Beverley. No 189 on schedule. 3 males, 3 females. This must be Dorothy, Enid, Cyril, Harold maybe Joseph and another female?
bendywendy
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Census info for Arthur Watson brother to Joseph Watson who went to Canada.
I am in contact with a lady whose Watson ancestor went to New Zealand, William Watson had a son William Andrew Watson of which she descends from, anyone know if there is a connection with this Watson family.
1871 cen Church Street, Great Driffield, Yorks RG10/4807 58 7
Arthur Watson, Boarder, 12 B. Kirk Ella - Mistranscribed as WaKson !! tis clear on original as Watson.
Joseph Watson, Boarder, 14 B. Kirk Ella
Schoolmaster was a Mr James Firth with wife Kate. There is 33 other boys listed. This would be a private school, possible connected with the Church.
1881 cen Farm House, West Ella. RG11/4750 90 15
Arthur Watson, Head. Unm, 22. Farmer of 400 acres of Land employing 3 men, 2 boys. B. Kirk Ella
Betsy Parr/Carr. Unm, 36. Housekeeper Domestic. B. Hatfield, Yorks
Maria Watson, Unm, 17. General Servant Domestic. B. West Ella
1891 cen Wood House, Raywell, Cottingham, Yorks RG12/3915 100 4
Arthur Watson, Head. Mar. 32. Farmer B. Hull
Edith M, Wife, 33. B. Hull
Florence M, dau, 6. Scholar B. Anlaby
William F, son, 5. "" B. """"
Noel A, son, 4. B. """""
James S, son, 1. B. Cottingham
Edith B/Curton, S, 29. Governess B. Hull
Elizabeth Lupton, S, 21 Cook B. Winterton, Lincs
Helen Freelon, S, 19. Housemaid B. Swanland
Louisa Featherston, S, 14. Nurse B. West Ella
Possible Marriage... Arthur Watson to Edith Mary Fisher @ Sculcoates 9d Jun 1882
Possible Births.... Florence Mary Watson @ Sculcoates 9d Dec 1884
William Fisher Watson @ Sculcoates 9d Dec 1885
Noel Arthur Watson @ Sculcoates 9d Mar 1887
James Stanley Watson @ Sculcoates 9d Mar 1890
1901 cen Arthur Watson not found.
Possible Death Arthur Watson 36 yrs @ Sculcoates 9d Dec 1894
1901 cen @ 35 Park St, Kingston Upon Hull RG13/4502 13 17
Edith M Watson, Wid, 42. Living on Own Means B. Hull
Florence M Watson, Dau, S. B. Anlaby
James S, Son, S. B. Cottingham
Ethel M Anderson, S, 26. Lady Helper Domestic B. Hull
Kate Hardbottle, S, 20. General Domestic B. Roos
1901 cen @ Wilberforce Lodge, Hostel & Grammar School, Barmby on the Moor, Pocklington, Yorks RG13/4453 40 3
Noel Watson, Boarder, 13. B. Anlaby
William Watson, Boarder, 15. B. Anlaby
DESTRUCTION OF FARM PROPERTY BY FIRE.- On Wednesday evening about nine o'clock, news arrived at the Yorkshire fire-engine station of a fire at Mr. Watson's, Woodhouse Farm, Raywell, the property of Joseph Sykes Esq. The engine under the command of Mr. D. Holmes, with all possible speed, proceeded thither. It appears that the fire commenced in a large barn, containing a great quantity of new wheat, ready for thrashing. The barn which contained a thrashing machine, along with the wheat, and various other implements of agriculture, &c., were completely destroyed before the arrival of the engine. A considerable amount of damage was done to a granary adjacent, containing a quantity of old wheat. Great praise is due to the inhabitants of the surrounding district for the strenuous exertions they used in protecting the various stacks and other property adjoining. The exertions of the firemen were directed to the confining of the disastrous element within the walls of the barn. The fire could be seen a great distance off. Ti is not, as yet, known how the fire originated. We understand the property is insured.
Source: LOCAL INTELLIGENCE .
The Hull Packet and East Riding Times (Hull, England), Friday, September 21, 1849; Issue 3378
So, which Watson was living at Woodhouse Farm, Raywell in 1849 ??
IMPORTANT SALE OF VALUABLE SHEEP, CATTLE, HORSES, AGRICULTURAL IMPLEMENTS, &c., &c.
MESSRS. BUST and GREENWOOD respectfully announce to their Agricultural Friends and the Public, that they have received Instructions from Mr. Day, of Woodhouse, Raywell, near Hull, (who is declining Business), to SELL BY AUCTION, in the Month of March next, the whole of his valuable FLOCK of SHEEP, superior Bred CATTLE, HORSES, AGRICULTURAL IMPLEMENTS, &c., &c., which will be found well deserving attention.
Source: Advertisements & Notices .
The Hull Packet and East Riding Times (Hull, England), Friday, January 21, 1848; Issue 3287
DEATHS
April 26, at Woodhouse, Raywell, aged 2 years and 9 months, William, son of Mr. Wm. Watson
Source: Births, Deaths, Marriages and Obituaries .
The Hull Packet and East Riding Times (Hull, England), Friday, May 2, 1862; Issue 4032.
can anyone find this family on 1861 census ???
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I had to find Cottingham and then go through the enumeraters list to find
Rayhill Raywell 1861
Yorkshire
Cottingham dist 5e - image 28
Watsons Woodhouse farm
William Watson head 37 b Little ?
Elizabeth wife 37 b Kirk Ella
James 8
Rebecca E 4
William 1
Richard W Hardy pupil 18 pupil in farm b Australia.
plus 3 servants
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Hi wilcoxon
Many thanks for finding the info, no wonder it wasn't coming up as Raywell...
Now to find out if they fit into this same family of Watson or a different clan altogether....
UPDATE
I have located 2 living rellies, 1 to Enid and 1 to Dorothy, but still no further with any information
of what happened to Enid or her brothers, Joseph, Cyril D & Harold Watson after 1911 and 1917.
A mystery of where they went ???
b.
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Yes, Bendywendy, they fit into the same family. I will post my research tomorrow.
Pankpop
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Pankpop, thank you very much, that saves me a lot of research....
bendywendy
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Let’s start with Joseph Watson, b. West Ella 1785 d. Kirk Ella 1855. He farmed at Kirk Ella Grange and the first time I can pick him up on records is in the 1834 Voters Roll, where he is recorded as farming 50 acres at Kirk Ella Grange. Then there’s -
1841 census:
Joseph (55) and wife Elizabeth (45)
Children: Hannah (20), William (17) Sarah (15) and Elizabeth (12)
1851 census:
Joseph (66) widowed
Children: Elizabeth (22), Joseph (17), Jane (14), Sarah (25) with her husband Henry Wilson and son James; grandson Edward Atkinson, son of Hannah deceased
Altogether, Joseph & Elizabeth had 8 children, although there might have been others who died in infancy: Hannah, William, Sarah, Barry, Elizabeth, Rebecca, Joseph, and Jane.
The branch of the family you’ve been tracking up till now is that descended from the second-last child, Joseph. The other siblings I have tracked as follows:
Hannah m. John Atkinson and had one son, Edward Watson Atkinson, before dying of consumption at the age of 28. Edward married Frances Mitchel, but died suddenly aged 27 after falling off a horse. So that appears to be the end of Hannah’s line.
William m. Elizabeth Holmes in 1841, and farmed at Woodhouse Farm, Raywell. They had 5 children:
- James m. Betsey ?, had 1 son, 3 daughters; farmed at North Cave
- Rebecca Elizabeth (haven’t traced her)
- William died aged 3
- Joseph Frederick m. Berth Sarah Scott, 2 daughters
- William Andrew m. Ruby Ethel Crickett, 2 sons, 1 daughter, emigrated to NZ
Sarah m. George Henry Wilson, a “chemical manure manufacturer”. They are my great great grandparents and had 5 children, as follows:
- James Henry m. Georgiana Grey Johnson, 3 sons, 2 daughters
- Annie Gertrude m. Richard Dickon Poppleton, 2 daughters, one of whom is my grandmother
- William Herbert m. Mary Harriet Gray, at least 1 son, probably more
- Barry Watson m. Elizabeth Crane Milne, no children as he died age 28
- Edgar died age 7
Barry Wride died aged 19, no issue
Elizabeth was at Kirk Ella Grange for the 1851 census but I haven’t found any trace of her after that
Rebecca was at Kirk Ella Grange for the 1841 census but I haven’t found any trace of her after that
Joseph m. Martha Walker, and took over the farm Kirk Ella Grange on his father’s death as he was recorded as the farmer there in the 1871 census. He then took over Woodhouse Farm in Raywell from his brother William, as he is recorded as the farmer there in the 1881 census. He is also recorded as signing the lease for Gordham Farm, Cherry Burton, in 1887 and 1891. Joseph’s son Arthur is recorded as the farmer at Woodhouse Farm in 1891. Joseph and Martha had 4 children:
- Joseph the original subject of this thread, farmer at Gordham Farm and eloper
- Arthur m. Edith Fisher, farmer at Woodhouse Farm 1891, died 1894, 4 children
- Annie was at Woodhouse Farm in the 1881 census, no trace after
- Ada E. was still unmarried at 37 in the 1901 census
Jane m. David Barr, farmer at Rowley/Riplington Manor House. She took over as the farmer on her husband’s death. They had 5 children:
- William m. Rose, 5 children
- Watson m. Eliza, 1 child
- Ellen may have died unmarried in 1925
- Walter Henry m. Edith Brown, farmer, 7 children
- Edith Mary m. John William Coulson, farmer, 5 children
That’s the long-winded overview. I’d be interested to hear from anyone descended from Sarah and George Henry Wilson or having more information.
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Hi Pankpop
Many many thanks for this wonderful info ;D and for tracking this family further back too ;D
This thread just keeps growing and growing.
What I notice about all these families is the unmarried women and some of the women just disappear ::)
When one thinks about these women, they really didn't have any financial prospects within the farms, only the sons had that priviledge, so I dare say these women were really doomed from the start unless they fell lucky by marrying and into a life they were accustomed too.
I have been tracking Ada Elizabeth Watson c 1863, she ends up living with various rellies on different census's and is still single at age 48 .... BUT states Living on Own Means.... now how did she come by her own money, or was the unmarried women in these families given money from their siblings who owned/tenanted these farms as an annuity ???
Some of the sons also had private education, but again the women didn't - mundane "family education, homemaking and sewing" would have been for the women !!!
bendywendy
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Following on with the first family that Pankpop has given info for, could this be his Baptism, his parents and siblings for Joseph Watson c1786.
Joseph Watson
Baptism date: 1784 Place: INDEPENDENT, SWANLAND, YORK, ENGLAND
Father: Joseph Watson
Mother: Elizabeth
Indexing No: C13367-1
System: England-VR
Film No: 828164
Possible siblings to Joseph 1784
William Watson
Baptism date: 1768 Place: INDEPENDENT, SWANLAND, YORK, ENGLAND
Father: Joseph Watson
Mother: Elisabeth
Indexing No: C13367-1
System: England-VR
Film No: 828164
Elizabeth Watson
Baptism date: 01 Jan 1769 Place: Swanland, Yorkshire
Father: Joseph Watson
Mother: Elizabeth Watson
Record set: RG4_2769
Elisabeth Watson
Baptism date: 01 Jan 1770 Place: INDEPENDENT,SWANLAND,YORK,ENGLAND
Father: Joseph Watson
Mother: Elisabeth
Indexing No: C13367-1
System: England-ODM
Film No: 8281
Mary Watson
Baptism date: 07 Nov 1771 Place: Cottingham, Yorkshire
Father: Joseph Watson
Mother: Elizabeth Watson
Record set: RG4_2637
Catharine Watson
Baptism date: 02 Dec 1775 Place: INDEPENDENT,SWANLAND,YORK,ENGLAND
Father: Joseph Watson
Mother: Elisabeth
Indexing No: C13367-1
System: England-ODM
Film No: 8281
Joseph Watson
Baptism date: 1777 Place: INDEPENDENT, SWANLAND, YORK, ENGLAND
Father: Joseph Watson
Mother: Elisabeth
Indexing No: C13367-1
System: England-VR
Film No: 828164
John Watson
Baptism date: 1778 Place: INDEPENDENT, SWANLAND, YORK, ENGLAND
Father: Joseph Watson
Mother: Elisabeth
Indexing No: C13367-1
System: England-VR
Film No: 828164
Ann Watson
Baptism date: 08 May 1780 Place: INDEPENDENT,SWANLAND,YORK,ENGLAND
Father: Joseph Watson
Mother: Elisabeth
Indexing No: C13367-1
System: England-ODM
Film No: 828164
Hannah Watson
baptism date: 24 Sep 1781 Place: INDEPENDENT,SWANLAND,YORK,ENGLAND
Father: Joseph Watson
Mother: Elisabeth
Indexing No: C13367-1
System: England-ODM
Film No: 828164
Could this be the marriage for the parents as above :
Groom: Joseph Watson
Bride: Eilizabeth Forgs could this be ForgE
Marriage date: 22 Jul 1766 Place: Rowley Near Hull,York,England
Indexing No: M10700-2
System: England-ODM
Film No: 919436
Nothing found for Baptism for sunname Forgs, but found this:-
Elizabeth Forge
baptism date: 06 Nov 1746 place: ROWLEY NEAR HULL,YORK,ENGLAND
father: William Forge
mother: Mar.
Indexing No: C10700-2 System: England-ODM Film No: 919436
Now there are 2 other listings for an Elizabeth Forge, 1 @ Burton Agnes and 1 @ Beverley and DOB fits.
I cannot find a marriage for Joseph Watson c 1784 to Elizabeth c 1794.
She could be a Wride after giving Barry the middle name of Wride OR Elizabeths' mother could have been a Wride. I cannot find a birth for an Elizabeth Wride either.
If I am correct then this could be the same Wride family that married into a Watson family later- John Wride c 1823 North Dalton married Maria Watson 1820 Cherry Burton dau of Richard Watson c 1777 Cherry Burton who was the son of Stephen Watson 1716 Kirk Ella.
All these families details are on Red1st... you will have to join as a free member to view
http://www.red1st.com/axholme/index.php
bendywendy
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Good stuff, Bendywendy. Re your point about women and their prospects. Generally, unmarried daughters were well accommodated in their father's wills and were quite comfortable. The married ones were dependent on their husbands and no longer the responsibility of their father. Having said that, though, let's not forget that there was normally a marriage settlement made on the daughter by the father, so they weren't cut off. Those women who disappear off the record have probably changed their names on marriage and we just haven't found them yet. I've found many of my female family member's surnames just by consistent detective work.
FYI, attached is a photo of Sarah Watson.
Pankpop
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Hi Pankpop
Thanks for the photo and the info on dau's income.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Baptisms found for the children of Joseph Watson c1784 and Elizabeth c1794. Their marriage not found - would be c 1815 ??
See page 10 by Pankpop for details of who married who from these names.
Ann Watson
baptism date: 27 Apr 1817 place: INDEPENDENT,SWANLAND,YORK,ENGLAND
birth date: 21 Mar 1817
Indexing No: C13367-1 System: England-ODM Film No:
Hannah Watson
baptism date: 04 Jul 1819 place: INDEPENDENT,SWANLAND,YORK,ENGLAND
birth date: 25 May 1819
Indexing No: C13367-1 System: England-ODM Film No: 828164
William Watson
Baptism date: 19 Jul 1823 place: Cottingham, Yorkshire
Father: Joseph Watson
Mother: Elizabeth Watson
Record set: RG4_3151
Could this have been his mother's family church??? with her first born son being baptised there??
Sarah Watson
baptism date: 04 Sep 1825 place: INDEPENDENT,SWANLAND,YORK,ENGLAND
birth date: 10 Aug 1825
Indexing No: C13367-1 System: England-ODM Film No: 828
Barry Wride Watson
baptism date: 1827 place: INDEPENDENT, SWANLAND, YORK, ENGLAND
birth date: 1827
Indexing No: C13367-1 System: England-VR Film No: 828164
Could her second born son have been given her maiden name of Wride ??
Elizabeth Watson
baptism date: 11 Feb 1829 place: INDEPENDENT,SWANLAND,YORK,ENGLAND
birth date: 21 Jan 1829
Indexing No: C13367-1 System: England-ODM Film No:
Rebecca Watson
baptism date: 04 Dec 1830 place: INDEPENDENT,SWANLAND,YORK,ENGLAND
birth date: 31 Oct 1830
Indexing No: C13367-1 System: England-ODM Film No:
Joseph Watson
baptism date: 1834 place: INDEPENDENT, SWANLAND, YORK, ENGLAND
birth date: 1833
Indexing No: C13367-1 System: England-VR Film No: 828164
Jane Watson
baptism date: 07 Sep 1836 place: INDEPENDENT,SWANLAND,YORK,ENGLAND
birth date: 12 Aug 1836
Indexing No: C13367-1 System: England-ODM Film No:
bendywendy
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Found these as possibles for Ann Watson c1817 Swanland:-
Ann Watson c1817 1841 cen. @ Gate Fulford, York age 25. Born in County. Has J.J or poss I.S as occupation ???
HO107/1227/ 8/ 10 p 13
Ann Watson c 1816 1841 cen. age 25. Born in County. Occ Milliner. @ St Martin, Beverley
HO107/1229/9/7p 6
b.
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Hi Bendywendy -
So glad you found Ann Watson. I knew there was an older daughter as Hannah's death notice mentioned that she was Joseph's second daughter. Yay - another piece slotted into the jigsaw. Well done :)
Pankpop
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Another tantalising lead. I found evidence that a Henry Watson of Swanland died c. 1723. He was survived by 5 sons: Henry, John, William, Thomas and Samuel. Could one of these sons have been the grandfather or father of our Joseph born 1785?
Pankpop
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Hey Pankpop that info re Henry Watson of Swanland is brilliant.
I have been trying to find out about Stephen Watson of Swanland, not much luck finding a lead for a Joseph Watson from him, so maybe you could be onto something..
This is the Reg for Kirk Ella, http://www.archive.org/stream/registerofkirkel11kirk#page/98/mode/2up use the index manually as it dosen't bring all the words up !!
I wonder if this line of Watson transferred to Swanland Independent at around the time of Joseph c1740 ish ???
Swanland Independent is lodged with the Treasure House, Beverley.
b.
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Found this entry... again at Swanland, it would fit as a grandson for Henry Watson snr d 1723 - what do you think Pankpop ???
Henry Watson
Baptism date: 1759 Place: INDEPENDENT, SWANLAND, YORK, ENGLAND
Father: Henry Watson
Mother: Mary
Indexing No: C13367-1 System: England-VR Film No: 828164
William Watson
Baptism date: 1760 Place: INDEPENDENT, SWANLAND, YORK, ENGLAND
Father: Henry Watson
Mother: Mary
Indexing No: C13367-1 System: England-VR Film No: 828164
Nancy Watson
Baptism date: 15 Dec 1763 Place: INDEPENDENT,SWANLAND,YORK,ENGLAND
Father: Henry Watson
Mother: Mary
Indexing No: C13367-1 System: England-ODM Film No: 8
Mary Watson
Baptism date: 15 Dec 1763 Place: Swanland, Yorkshire
Father: Henry Watson
Mother: Mary Watson
Record set: RG4_2769
Mary Watson
Baptism date: 15 Mar 1767 Place: INDEPENDENT,SWANLAND,YORK,ENGLAND
Father: Henry Watson
Mother: Mary
Indexing No: C13367-1 System: England-ODM Film No: 82816
Thomas Watson
Baptism date: 1770 Place: INDEPENDENT, SWANLAND, YORK, ENGLAND
Father: Henry Watson
Mother: Elisabeth
Indexing No: C13367-1 System: England-VR Film No: 828164
bendywendy
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Pankpop.... Henry Watson of Swanland died c. 1723 do you mean he died at Swanland. Also do you mean he came originally from Swanland too ??
I have been looking through familysearch.org at the Baptisms for Independent Swanland, there is lots n lots of Watson, possibly from the same line ancestor, same names repeating.
The first Joseph Watson is that of the possible father to Joseph Watson 1784 but I cannot trace the Joseph father back on the list ??? If he was one of the same family then he would be listed along with them, but nothing.
So, did he come in from elsewhere and possibly not related to the Swanland/Kirk Ella Watson ??? I ask this, because his marriage to Elizabeth Forge was at Rowley ???
b.
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This is the reference I found to Henry having died around 1723:
http://slb-archives.hull.ac.uk/DServe/dserve.exe?dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqCmd=show.tcl&dsqSearch=(RefNo==%22DDKE/8/41%22)
Also an interesting site on Swanland with some of the same Watson names, including a Joseph:
http://www.swanland.info/PDF/History%20of%20Swanland-18th%20&19thc1.pdf
Pankpop
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Hi Pankpop
The link to Henry W and his Will does not work, I have read it, will copy it here for others to read.
Collection DDKE KIRK ELLA ESTATE PAPERS (PROPERTY OF JOSEPH SYKES)
Series DDKE/8 Kirk Ella Estate (Kirk Ella; West Ella; Ferriby; Swanland; Willerby)
DDKE/8/41 10 August - 12 November 1720
(b) Will of Henry Watson of Swanland. Bequests to sons Henry, John, William, Thomas and Samuel; daughters Mary and Margaret: farm in Swanland. 3 closes at Seaton. Close and 10ac. in fields of Kirk Ella and West Ella: Witnessed James Fox, Elizabeth Watson, Timothy Williamson. 10 August 1720. Probate 25 September 1723.
As for the info on Swanland, I have never come across that before, tis fascinating.
It mentions Henry Watson as Overseer for Swanland in North Ferriby Church Book 1695, maybe we should turn our sights to Registrations there.. I have had a quick look on familysearch.org Watson are listed, alas no Joseph ::)
This family of Henry Watson is "boggling"... off to bed now...
A little snippet of Swanland http://www.swanlander.karoo.net/history%20sw.htm
bendywendy
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Interesting historical account of the Independent Chapel at Swanland here:
http://www.swanlander.karoo.net/O5.htm
I read somewhere that only baptisms were allowed to be registered at the Independent Chapel in Swanland and that marriages and burials had to be conducted at one of the nearby parishes of North Ferriby, Kirk Ella or Rowley. So perhaps that explains why Joseph Watson and Elizabeth Forge married at Rowley and why they may still be part of the larger Watson family of Swanland.
Pankpop
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Here's a good map that shows just how close all these farms were to each other.
http://visionofbritain.org.uk/maps/results.jsp?xCenter=3333771.278021&yCenter=3039680.60521&scale=63360&mapLayer=nineteenth&subLayer=first_edition&title=Ordnance%20Survey%20and%20Ordnance%20Survey%20of%20Scotland%20First%20Series
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Just found another link that looks like William Watson, only brother of our Joseph, farmed at West Ella Grange and died in 1809 aged 41. So one was at Kirk Ella Grange and the other at West Ella Grange.
http://books.google.co.za/books?id=tCkAAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA538&lpg=PA538&dq=%22William+Watson%22+West+Ella&source=bl&ots=2_RO6ETDk_&sig=jcCzDUh9sMP7Kxcoea2Nca90bl8&hl=en&ei=y_XRTsnuGITMhAfhgYG_DQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&sqi=2&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%22William%20Watson%22%20West%20Ella&f=false
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Morning Pankpop
Interesting info, especially only Bap allowed at Ind Swanland.
I recall looking through the register page by page of Kirk Ella and noting some pages missing on the original, will have another look at it and see if it will fit in with Joseph Watson c 1740 ish.
Noting from the Will of Henry Watson a witness is Elizabeth, this could be his wife ??? but alas I have searched for a marriage with these names with no success.
So now a search for Bap for William Watson c 1768 ish.
bendywendy
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BINGO...found what could be the baptism for the William Watson that died 1809 aged 41 yrs.
William Watson
baptism date: 1760 Place: INDEPENDENT, SWANLAND, YORK, ENGLAND
father: Henry Watson
mother: Mary
Indexing No: C13367-1 System: England-VR Film: 828164
I put some other Baptisms on page 11 for children of a Henry Watson and Mary which could be siblings to this William above.
Alas, still no Joseph.
BUT another Marriage for Henry Watson and Mary.... could he have married twice ???
groom Henry Wattson
bride: Mary Dookes
marriage date: 21 Nov 1737 place: Seamer Near Scarborough,York,England
Indexing No: M10618-2 System: England-ODM Film No: 919209
I have cross ref for children baptised in or around Scarborough to this couple and found nothing. And still no Joseph found.
bendywendy
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Baptism @ Seamer. Looking at marriage details this would be their first born so maybe she was taken to her mothers home for baptism. There dosen't appear to be any more siblings for this area. There is other Watson 1710 and later 1770/80 but nothing inbetween.
Also note, if this is the correct Henry Watson then his next born was 1759 Swanland and last born 1770 making 32 yrs for childbearing, unless his first wife died and he remarried to another Mary ???
Isabell Watson
Baptism date: 15 Oct 1738 Place: SEAMER NEAR SCARBOROUGH,YORK,ENGLAND
Father: Henry Watson
Indexing No: C10618-2 System: England-ODM Film No: 919209
bendywendy
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Some of the places of abode on the Swanland and Cottingham baptisms, might be useful.
25 March 1768. Swanland. William, son of Joseph & Elizabeth Watson of West Ella.
1 Jan 1770. Swanland. Elizabeth, daughter of Joseph & Elizabeth Watson of West Ella.
7 Nov 1771 Cottingham. Mary, daughter of Joseph & Elizabeth Watson of Kirk Ella.
2 Dec 1775. Swanland. Catherine, daughter of Joseph & Elizabeth Watson of West Ella.
19 Feb 1777. Swanland. Joseph, son of Joseph & Elizabeth Watson of West Ella.
10 Nov 1778. Swanland. John, son of Joseph & Elizabeth Watson of West Ella, Farmers.
8 May 1780. Swanland. Ann, daughter of Joseph & Elizabeth Watson, Farmers in West Ella.
24 Sep 1781. Swanland. Hannah, daughter of Joseph & Elizabeth Watson, Farmers in West Ella.
20 Aug 1784. Swanland. Joseph, son of Joseph & Elizabeth Watson of West Ella.
27 April 1817. Swanland. Ann, daughter of Joseph & Elizabeth Watson of Hensley in the Parish of Rowley.
4 July 1819. Swanland. Hannah, daughter of Joseph & Elizabeth Watson of Little Weighton in the Parish of Rowley.
19 July 1823. Cottingham. William, son of Joseph & Elizabeth Watson of Little Weighton.
3 Sep 1825. Swanland. Sarah, daughter of Joseph & Elizabeth Watson of Little Weighton in the Parish of Rowley.
5 May 1827. Swanland. Barry Wride, son of Joseph & Elizabeth Watson of Little Weighton in the Parish of Rowley.
11 Feb 1829. Swanland. Elizabeth, daughter of Joseph & Elizabeth Watson of Little Weighton in the Parish of Rowley.
4 Dec 1830. Swanland. Rebecca, daughter of Joseph & Elizabeth Watson of Kirk Ella Grange.
16 Jan 1834. Swanland. Joseph, son of Joseph & Elizabeth Watson of Kirk Ella Grange.
12 Aug 1836. Swanland. Jane, daughter of Joseph & Elizabeth Watson of Kirk Ella Grange.
Alan.
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I am going to recap the lineage for this Watson family that I started researching.
Henry Watson & Mary Dookes ???.... See details up above for their marriage details.
Children - Isabell 1738
OR could he have married twice ???
Henry Watson to Mary Hall dau of William Hall of Swanland, gentleman.
Henry 1759, William 1760, Nancy 1763, Mary 1763, Mary 1767, Thomas 1770.
groom: Henry Watson
bride: Mary Hall
marriage date: 16 May 1758 place: North Ferriby,York,England
Indexing No: M10670-2 System: England-ODM Film No: 919482
The following lines are sourced and form part of the Watson families of Kirk Ella and all the info is within this thread:
Joseph Watson c 1740 ish married Elizabeth Forge - Bapt 1746 Rowley
Children - William 1768, Elizabeth 1769, Elizabeth 1770, Mary 1771, Catharine 1775, Joseph 1777, John 1778, Ann 1780,
Hannah 1781 & Joseph 1784.
Joseph 1784 married Elizabeth ??? their marriage not found as yet
Children - Ann 1817, Hannah 1819, William 1823, Sarah 1825, Barry Wride 1827, Elizabeth 1829, Rebecca 1830, Joseph 1834, Jane 1836
Joseph Watson 1834 married Martha Walker
Children - Joseph 1857, Arthur 1859, Annie G 1860, Ada 1864
Joseph Watson 1857 married Lavinia Sanderson AND THEN eloped to Canada 1907 with Alice Hood.
This is where the thread originally started from by broadgates.
Children - Joseph 1884, Dorothy Ethel 1889, Cyril Douglas 1890, Enid Lavinia Julia 1886, Harold 1901.
bendywendy
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WolfieSmith, thank you very much, will have to digest them after a cuppa.
All these Joseph's are confusing... ::) still needing to find baptism Joseph Watson c 1740 ish who married Elizabeth Forge.
bendywendy
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Re Henry Watson and Mary ???
Estate papers for the East Riding of Yorkshire continue in the following sections:......
Brough and Elloughton (1700-1850) including some manorial court records 1731-1847, the marriage settlement of Henry Watson and Mary Hall (1758),
taken from:- Hull History Centre (Hull University Archives) DDCV; DDCV(2) Papers of Crust Todd and Mills, Solicitors
the following 2 are listed in same set of papers:
DDCV/29/18 8 - 9 May 1758
Marriage Settlement: (i) Mary Hall of Brough spinster (ii) Henry Watson of Swanland yeoman (iii) John Watson of West Elley gent
Prior to marriage of Henry Watson and Mary Hall: farm with 7 closes in Brough.
Witn. Mar. and Wm. Wadman.
DDCV/29/23 6 - 7 March 1767
Lease and Release: for £600: Henry Watson of Swanland yeoman to William Keeling
7 closes as DDCV/29/18 (2 Burrs, 2 Fower Lands, 3 Intacks).
Different set of papers...
KIRK ELLA ESTATE PAPERS (PROPERTY OF JOSEPH SYKES)
DDKE/8/10 28 June 1656
Bargain and Sale: William Watson of Swanland yeoman to Francis Brough of West Ellay yeoman
2ac. 1 steng in the fields of Swanland and Elley (locations specified)
DDKE/8/39 8 - 9 November 1719
Copy. Lease and Release: for £130: John Punderson of Hotham yeoman and wife Ann to Henry Watson of Swanland yeoman
Toft and garden close in West Elley. 10ac. in the fields of Kirk Elley and West Elley (locations specified): Witnessed John Reid, Charles Robinson jnr.
Could this Ann & Henry Watson be the parents of Henry Watson who married 1758 ???
DDKE/8/145 6 - 7 December 1731
Lease and Release: for £60: William Watson yeoman and wife Elizabeth and Mary Watson (widow of Henry Watson of Swandland
yeoman) all of North Ferriby to Joseph Williamson of Hull merchant
Toft and meadow close adjoining in West Elley: Witnessed Henry Watson, Jno. Wilkinson, R. Carter.
NOTE... All of North Ferriby
DDKE/8/151 20 November 1748
Exchange between William Watson of Kirk Ella yeoman and Walter Kettilby
.... and William Watson to have 1ac. 1r. in fields of West Ella (locations specified)
PAPERS OF CRUST TODD AND MILLS, SOLICITORS, OF BEVERLEY
DDCV/168/16 30 December 1732 - 1 January 1733
Settlement :(i) William Elliott
(ii) his nephew William E., both of Walkington yeomen and
(iii) trustees Henry Jarratt of Beverley and William Watson of Swanland gents.
All these docs are at the Hull History Centre.
b.
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Docs held at Treasure House, Beverley
HARRISON-BROADLEY FAMILY OF HULL AND WELTON
DDHB/46/38 11-12 Feb 1774
Watson, son of Samuel and Theodosia Scatcherd to Thomas Droadley...... in Swanland. 8ac. in Wold Ings in Kirk Ella and Ferriby.
DDHB/40/4 4 Nov 1707
Mortgage for £100 to Henry Watson of Swanland, property: 3 closes (40ac.)
TURNPIKE TRUSTS BROUGH FERRY TO NEWBALD HOMES
TTBF/10/11 5 Mar 1866
Qualification oaths of Robert Brough Watson of Swanland esquire
STILLINGFLEET DEEDS
DDX161/6 12 Jul 1675
Settlements of Land in Elley (Kirk Ella)
Witness Robert Watson
Quarter Sessions Files
QSF/571/B/33 8 Apr 1851
Indictment of Maria Fay wife of John Fay of Kirkella, labourer
Transportation for 10 years for stealing 4 hempen sacks value 6 pence each from Joseph Watson at Kirk Ella
QSF/472/B/12 25 Jul 1826
non repair of highway on the common at Cottingham......Samuel Watson of Swanland
MACTURK AND SON, SOLICITORS, SOUTH CAVE
DDMT/229 1652-1820
A lot of surname Watson mentioned
DDMT/629 Wills.
p70 Robert Brough Watson, Manor House, Swanland, esquire, will dated 29 Nov 1877, proved 26 Jun 1879
According to FreeBMD there is this entry....
Robert Brough Watson @ Sculcoates Jun 1879 age 86 yrs - c1791/3. Why isn't the death reg for 1877 ???
and I think this could be his marriage FreeBMD...
Robert Brough WATSON to either Maria DAVENPORT or Anne JONES @ Headington, Oxfordshire. Jun Q 1855
Refer to next page 13 to find how he changed his surname from Brough to Watson...
BRITISH RECORDS ASSOCIATION COLLECTION
DDX31/23
2) William(son of William) Watson of Swanland
Property: 30 acres arable land, close (Grant Garth?) and 1 rood meadow in Swanland
BROOMFLEET, FAXFLEET AND WALLINGFEN DEEDS AND SALES PARTICULARS
DDX1339/1/9 15 May 1777
Copy of the will of Henry Watson of North Ferriby, gentleman
Proved 5 Aug 1777
Executor: Mary Watson, wife
Bequests: Farm with lands at Swanland and North Ferriby to Henry Watson, eldest son; lands in Swanland and Ferriby contracted to be purchased of William Nicholson of Anlaby and Joseph Robinson Pease of Hull, and Hell Close in Broomfleet, to William Watson, son; £500 each to Ann Watson and Mary Watson, daughters, on attaining 21 years; and jointure to Mary Watson, his wife.
Witnesses: and John Watson
DDX1339/1/10
Probate of the will of William Watson of Ferriby, gentleman
Will dated 17 Jan 1784
Proved 17 Apr 1803
Executor: Henry Watson, gentleman, brother to William Watson
Bequests: Personal estate and lands at Swanland and Broomfleet, in the occupation of John Watson, John Hayton and others, to Henry Watson, brother; £300 each to Mary Watson and Nancy Watson, sisters.
DDX1339/1/25 27 May 1811
Assignment of a close at Broomfleet called Great Hells.......
1) Henry Watson, Ferriby, gentleman
Note: Henry Watson is the only surviving son of Mary Watson, late of Ferriby, deceased, widow of Henry Watson of Ferriby, also deceased. Before her marriage Mary Watson was Mary Hall, daughter of William Hall of Swanland, gentleman.
Well I don't live far from Broomfleet, so I am wondering if the Watson families around here are related back to the Watson that had lands in Broomfleet, very interesting.
Now for some gardening :o
bendywendy
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This is how Henry Watson of Swanland came by the lands at Broomfleet....
Treasure House, Beverley
BROOMFLEET, FAXFLEET AND WALLINGFEN DEEDS AND SALES PARTICULARS
DDX1339/1/6 29 Mar 1750
Assignment of a lease of 1000 years relating to lands at Broomfleet
2) William Hall, Swanland, gentleman
Property: Great Hells in Broomfleet
Consideration: £110 Rent : £12 per year
DDX1339/1/7 18 Oct 1756
Copy of will of William Hall of Swanland, gentleman
Executor: Mary Hall, wife
Bequests: Farm containing 65 acres at Swanland, occupied by his son George Hall, a close called Raw Dales in Willerby Fields, and Vessey Close in Swanland, to William Hall of Cottingham, gentleman, son; farm and lands at Brough, a close called Hell's Close, Broomfleet, tenanted by Thomas Galland, and a cottage at Elloughton and a cottage at Swanland occupied by William Dow, to Mary [Hall], daughter; £100 to Sarah Hall, daughter; and personal estate to Mary Hall, wife.
Possible baptisms for the above named children in Will, none coming up in Swanland/Kirk Ella, these are nearest.
William Hall
Baptism date: 01 Dec 1717 place: , NORTH FERRIBY, YORK, ENGLAND
father: William Hall
Indexing No: C10670-2 System: England-ODM Film No: 919482
Thomas Hall no mention of this one in Will, may have died before 1756
baptism date: 20 Apr 1721 place: , NORTH FERRIBY, YORK, ENGLAND
father: Wm. Hall
Indexing No: C10670-2 System: England-ODM Film No: 919482
Mary Hall
baptism date: 20 Jun 1723 place: NORTH FERRIBY, YORK, ENGLAND
father: Wm. Hall
Indexing No: C10670-2 System: England-ODM Film No: 919482
Sarah Hall
Baptism/christening date: 21 Mar 1727 Place: NORTH FERRIBY, YORK, ENGLAND
father: Wm. Hall
Indexing No: C10670-2 System: England-ODM Film No: 919482
George Hall
Baptism date: 06 Feb 1732 Place: , NORTH FERRIBY, YORK, ENGLAND
father: William Hall
Indexing No: C10670-2 System: England-ODM Film No: 919482
Cannot find a marriage between a William Hall & Mary that would fit ???
bendywendy
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Hull History Centre
DBR/62 15 April 1845
Mortgage for £240: James Crowther of Swanland yeoman to James Watson of Waldby esq
Messuage and close, with 2 messuages, butcher's and wheelwright's shops lately erected on part of the close, in Swanland
DBR/64 1809 - 1852
Abstract of Title of James Watson of Waldby esq
Messuage, workshop and garth in Swanland (as DBR/62)
DBR/65 30 November 1852
Conveyance: for £325: James Watson, now of the Manor House in Swanland, to Robert Boyes Ringrose of Swanland esqs
Messuage, workshop and garth in Swanland (as DBR/62)
FreeBMD Death entry.... James Watson @ Sculcoates Dec 1853
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/21533/pages/904/page.pdf
London Gazette
Whitehall, March 14, 1854.
The Queen has been pleased to give and grant unto Robert Brough, of Melton in the county of
York, Gentleman, Her royal licence and authority that he and his issue may, in compliance with
the express request contained in the last will and testament of his cousin, James Watson, late of the
Manor House, Swanland, in the said county of York, Esquire, deceased, take and henceforth use
the surname of Watson, instead of that of Brough[/i], and also bear the arms of Watson only ; such
arms being first duly exemplified according to the laws of arms, and recorded in the Herald's Office,
otherwise the said royal licence and permission to be void and of none effect:
And also to command that the said royal concessionand declaration be registered in Her
Majesty's College of Arms.
DDMT/629 Wills.
p70 Robert Brough Watson, Manor House, Swanland, esquire, will dated 29 Nov 1877, proved 26 Jun 1879
According to FreeBMD there is this Death entry....
Robert Brough Watson @ Sculcoates Jun 1879 age 86 yrs - c1791/3. Why isn't the death reg for 1877
and I think this could be his marriage FreeBMD...
Robert Brough WATSON to either Maria DAVENPORT or Anne JONES @ Headington, Oxfordshire. Jun Q 1855 would be aged 64 yrs, unless it was a remarriage in his new surname Watson ???
STRANGE thing, I cannot find him on census in either surname ???
This entry has something to do with Men at the Bar (Barristers etc).....BUT I CANNOT FIND THE ENTRY
......ceeded by the will of R. Brough- Watson, Esq., in 1879, a ... Swanland Manor House, near Brough ;
http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/joseph-foster/men-at-the-bar--a-biographical-hand-list-of-the-members-of-the-various-inns-of--058/page-29-men-at-the-bar--a-biographical-hand-list-of-the-members-of-the-various-inns-of--058.shtml
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SWANLAND MANOR
http://www.archive.org/stream/historyofsouthca00hall#page/240/mode/2up
Page 240.... pencil drawing..... the house was built over half a century ago by Henry Watson, Esq., now the residence of James Reckitt, Esq. J.P. who is Lord of the Manor of Swanland.
A lovely little book, worth reading.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SWANLAND MANOR - Demolishing - page 35
Last of Swanland Manor – demolition 13.6.36.6
Swanland Manor to be demolished, Sir Philip Reckitt‟s decision 29.9.34.15
http://www.rbarnard.karoo.net/Times%20Index%201928-45.pdf
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
An estate at Swanland (65.3.10) DBHT/9/4 3 Apr. 1849
These documents are held at Hull History Centre (Hull City Archives)
Contents:
Table and plan By Thomas Daniels under decree in Chancery in the cases of Galland v Watson, Galland v Ayre and Galland v Watson
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=049-dbht_3&cid=2-3#2-3
A farm at Swanland (135.3.38) DBHT/9/510 27 Apr. 1858
These documents are held at Hull History Centre (Hull City Archives)
Contents:
To be sold in connection with the Chancery suit of John Todd v George and Alice Beilby, Ann Beilby, J. G. Everingham, Jane King, Henry Watson, James Watson and T. G. Watson, Table and plan
By Nathaniel Easton
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WILLIAM HALL - Swanland - a bit more to read on the link....
http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/bernard-burke/a-genealogical-and-heraldic-history-of-the-landed-gentry-of-great-britain--irel-kru/page-191-a-genealogical-and-heraldic-history-of-the-landed-gentry-of-great-britain--irel-kru.shtml
John Eingrose, of Cottingham, sometime of Swanland, a minor at his father's death, bapt. 1 Oct. 1751, m. 1
Dec. 1774, Eebecca, dau. of William Hall, a landowner at Cottingham, Kirkella, Swanland, and Ferriby, and by her,,
who d. 1822, aged 68, had issue..........
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Re: James Watson of Waldby and Manor House, Swanland.
1841 cen @ Wauldby.
James Watson, 50. Farmer.
Mary Mitchell, 55.
Both born in County.
6 Servants.
HO107/1218/23 /3/ 3 p 9
1851 cen @ Wauldby. Mistranscribed as Wandlby.
James Watson, Head, Unm, 60. Farmer & Land Holder of 1200 acres. 20 Labs. B. Wauldby, Yorks
Mary Mitchell, -------, Unm, 63. B. Drax, Yorks
William Mitchell, Visitor, Unm, 33. Silk Weaver. B. Swanland
7 Servants.
Appears to be the main/only large land holder and employer in Wauldby.
HO107/2360/365 p 3
1834 Electoral Roll for the Parish of North Ferriby
3741 Watson, Thomas Wauldby Freehold property Swanland
3742 Watson, James Wauldby Freehold property Swanland
The Farmer’s Magazine, Volume the twenty-Second (Second Series), July to December MDCCCL (1850)
Great Sale of Short-Horned Cattle on the Farm of Mr James Watson of Wauldby, Yorkshire
GREAT SALE OF SHORT-HORNED CATTLE ON THE FARM OF MR. JAMES
WATSON, OF WAULDBY.
A sale of more than one hundred head of short-horned eattle took place on Friday, Aug. 11, at Wauldby, Yorkshire, being one of the most important sales of live stock which have taken place in this district for some years. Mr. James Watson, the owner of the herd, has long been celebrated for the purity and excellence of his breed of short-horns. A finer or larger herd has rarely ever been exhibited than that whioh was brought into the ring on that day for sale. They were not remarkable for fat, Mr. Watson not having fed them up for sale, he not having, in fact, decided on declining thefurther occupancy of his farm until May last. They were, however, in a remarkably healthy condition, and exhibited abundant proofs of the care expended in their breeding.
Several hundred persons who are well known breeders ana fanciers of short-horns attended.
An excellent luncheon was prepared by Mr. Watson for all present and was served under the superintendence of Mr. Mountain, of the Hull Assembly Rooms. There was no lack of wines of the finest quality, Mr. Wetherell then said it would be very unnecessary for him to detain those present with any expression of his own opinion of the herd which he was now going to submit to them. Mr. Watson had, for now nearly fifty years, been a breeder of the first-class of short-horns, and had maintained the very highest character as a breeder. He had always been exceedingly careful for the purity of the blood. Sometimes they would find animals that had pedigrees as long as their arms were not of the slightest value in the world; but all who knew the breeding of Mr. Watson's short-horns knew that their quality might be depended upon.
Mr. Wetherell then referred to the bulls which Mr. Watson had used He recommended all to secure the first blood for breeding, and then, with ordinary luck, they were sure to succeed. There was only one animal iu the whole herd which Mr. Watson was not prepared to warrant as perfectly healthy and without any symptoms of disease. No tricks had been resorted to for the purpose of fattening them up, but they would be seen in the most natural possible state. He concluded by stating that Mr. Watson was willing to allow any of the cattle, when purchased, to stay on the farm for one week, with the same care, herdsmen, and pasture they had hitherto had, and his servants would also assist in conveying the animals, when sold, to the Railway Station. In fact, if any person wished for anything in reason, no matter what, Mr. Watson would comply with it. He would detain them no longer, but proceed to put up the first lot. The bidding then commenced, and proceeded very briskly, as may be imagined, when we state that the auctioneer " knocked off" more than one hundred head of cattle in about four hours. The gross amount of the sale was very near £2,500. The highest price fetched by one beast was £150. Many were sold at prices varying from £40 to £70.
Abridged from the Hall Packet.
Hull History Centre
DDCV2/32/35 19 - 20 January 1824 Ottringham
Mortgage: R.C. Dunn to Thomas and James Watson of Wauldby Grange gents
For £7000: messuage and closes as DDCV2/32/9
Part of an original bundle, DDCV2/32/35 - DDCV2/32/41
DDCV2/32/54 29 December 1823
Copy. Will of Thomas Watson of Waldby gent. all to brother James.
The Gentlemen's Magazine Volume 100 Part 1
Obitutary 1830 March 10 aged 83. Thomas Watson Esq., of Wauldby, near South Cave. c1747
Possible baptism for:
Thomas Watson
Baptism date: 21 Jun 1747 Place: INDEPENDENT, SWANLAND, YORK, ENGLAND
father: Thomas Watson
mother: Margaret
Indexing No: C13367-1 System: England-VR Film No: 828164
Only marriage for parents:
groom: Thomas Watson
bride: Margaret Browne
marriage date: 17 Jul 1743 place: Bridlington,York,England
Indexing No: M10587-2 System: England-ODM Film No: 919161
No births showing for this couple at Bridlington, only Swanland, will upload info.
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British Husbandry - exhibiting the farming practice in various parts of the...
....... page 112... the father of the Messrs Watson became a tenant upon this estate, the greatest part of what is called
"The Green" was a sheepwalk
There is a lot of info about how the brothers Thomas & James Watson farmed their land of 1000 acres, fascinating to read. Starts at page 66 Farming at Wauldby - The Estate of Robert Raikes Esq., Occupied by Messrs Watson - Communicated by Mr Charles Howard, Melbourne, York January 15 1833 It could well be this property is known as Wauldby Manor Farm, I don't think it is Wauldby Manor itself - see this link for some more details ... http://www.yorkshirewalks.org/diary11/diary390.html
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=uKsaAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA112&lpg=PA112&dq=watson,+wauldby,+yorks&source=bl&ots=8hVmHklX42&sig=qCiVhiOspMYzOICVEcW2yz9fIvA&hl=en&ei=LwnUTtXHCcfJ8gPE6NCGDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CEQQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=watson%2C%20wauldby%2C%20yorks&f=false
Subscribers to Coate's Herd Book
Jas. Watson, Wauldby near Hull
Wm. Watson, Kirk Ella Grange, near Hull
Names of Bulls, Cow & Heifers that they had are listed under their names..
http://www.archive.org/stream/coatessherdbook07stra#page/n45/mode/2up Messrs Watson & James Watson and over the page Mr W Watson
These two brothers Thomas & James were certainly into their animals and the land. ;D
Possible Baptisms for:-
Thomas Watson 1787, son of Thomas & Ann Watson, Swanland Yorkshire
James Watson 1790 son of Thomas & Ann Watson, Swanland Yorkshire
Possible marriage for their parents:
Thomas Watson m Ann Parker 4 Jul 1781 North Ferriby,York
A possible sibling to Thomas & James:
Samuel Parker Watson Watson
Baptism (Non conformist) 9 Mar 1783 Swanland, Yorkshire
parents Thomas & Ann Watson
Annals of Agriculture and other useful arts Volume 37
Representative for the area to the Agriculture Show
Thursday Jun 18 1891 Tho Watson, Wauldby by South Cave, Yorkshire
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Possible baptisms for children of Thomas Watson & Margaret Browne.
Their marriage took place in Bridlington, see up above for details. Not found any births in that area.
Thomas Watson
Non Conformist Baptism date: 21 Jun 1747 place: Swanland, Yorkshire
father: Thomas Watson
mother: Margaret Watson
record set: RG4_2769
Thomas Watson
baptism date: 21 Jun 1747 place: INDEPENDENT, SWANLAND, YORK, ENGLAND
father: Thomas Watson
mother: Margaret
Indexing No: C13367-1 System: England-ODM Film No: 828164
James Watson
baptism date: 03 Sep 1749 place: INDEPENDENT, SWANLAND, YORK, ENGLAND
father: Thomas Watson
mother: Margaret
Indexing No: C13367-1 System: England-ODM Film No: 828164
Isaac Watson
Non Conformist Baptism date: 09 Sep 1749 place: Swanland, Yorkshire
father: Thomas Watson
mother: Margaret Watson
record set: RG4_2769
Could the last two entries be twins and the transcription of the number 3/9 be difficult to read ???
Looking at the Record Set refs and Film No's each entry relates to another, so most likely all are siblings ???
How these Watson families tie in with each other is at present still a mystery or maybe there is NO connection, the only fact between them all is MONEY and LAND and TENANTS.
Somehow Joseph Watson c 1740 ish (looking for baptism) came by money himself at some point and of which passed down the line to Joseph Watson who eloped to Canada -
so where did the money come from for Joseph Watson 1740 ish - is he related back to these other Watson families ???
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I have a theory that our original Joseph Watson b±1740 farmed at West Ella Grange. His eldest son, William, b. 1768 d. 1809, was definitely farming there and didn't the oldest son always inherit? And then there is another William farming at West Ella Grange who died in 1858, as evidenced in the notice below. He wasn't Joseph's son William b 1823, as that William farmed at Raywell, so maybe he was the eldest son of William b1768.
Govt Gazette, July 31, 1874
NOTICE is hereby given, that all creditors and other persons) having any claim upon the estate of William Watson, late of West Ella Grange, in the county of York, Farmer, deceased (who died on the llth of March, 1858, and whose will was proved in the District Registry at York of Her Majesty's Court of Probate, on the 26th of May, 1858, by Charles Jackson, of I\J apple ton, in the county of York, Farmer, since deceased, and Edward Ward Ingleby, of the town of Kingston-upon-Hull, Sharebroker, the executors named in the said will), are hereby required to send in the particulars of their claims to the undersigned, Solicitors of Edward Ward Ingleby, the surviving executor, on or before the 29th of September next, after which day he will proceed to distribute the assets of the deceased according to the provisions of the said will, having regard to the claims-only of which he shall then have had notice; and that he will not be liable for the assets, so distributed to any person of whose claim he shall not then have had notice.
—Dated this 28th day of July, 1874.
LIGHTFOOT, EARNSHAW, and PRANKISH,
Hull, Solicitors to the said surviving Executor.
Another reason why I think Joseph b1740ish farmed at West Ella Grange is that the census info records that Joseph b1884 was born in West Ella. All these clues and still no certainty...
Pankpop
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An interesting piece of valuable info Pankpop. ;D
So far and yet this "hole" of missing info re Joseph 1740 ish... ::) I too believed he farmed West Ella.
I wonder if his parents died when he was very young and taken in by some rellies, maybe his surname was changed from ??? to Watson because the rellies had no natural children and he became their heir ??? or it was a Watson rellie and again with no natural children but again became their heir.
Fingers crossed we find the missing link, sooner rather than later.
bendywendy
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There was a Joseph at Swanland in 1779, as evidenced by:
A list of the rentle on Lands and Inhabitants of the Township and Constabulary of
Swanland for the Year of Our Lord 1779:
Samuel Watson 60
William Watson 5
Thos Watson 20
John Watson 130
Joseph Watson 10
Henry Watson -
And I have found that Joseph born 1784 was farming at Little Weighton, where many of his children were born, in 1823, as evidenced here:
Transcript of the entry of "professions and trades" for LITTLE WEIGHTON in Baines's Directory of 1823.
Farmers & Yeomen,
Bailey John
Green Thomas
Hopper James
Hudson Carlill
Stephenson Ralph
Watson Joseph
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A great pity that Joseph W c1769 is far too young.
There is Watson names in the Kirk Ella Register covering Swanland too from the early 1600's, but no Samuel W.
I also cannot find any baptisms in Swanland or Kirk Ella or surrounding areas, to a Samuel Watson, so most likely he was an outsider from another nearby place.
I have found some baptisms for children at Rudston, Yorkshire, not that far from Swanland, but NO Joseph in any of them.
Could this be the baptism for the Samuel Watson you mention Pankpop?? There is some others, but further away.
Samuel Watson
baptism date: 14 Jul 1717 place: KILHAM,YORK,ENGLAND (North east Driffield)
father: Samuel Watson
Indexing No: C10872-2 System: England-ODM Film No: unknown
I cannot find baptisms for the children that is noted.
bendywendy
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All @ Treasure House, Beverley
Found this which regarding the Tenant of Kirk Ella Grange - this would mean that Kirk Ella Grange was not in the hands of tenancy of Watson at this time ??? and could also mean that Joseph Watson 1740 ish didn't farm there either.
DDBD/68/18 23 Dec 1811 Award of John Dalton of Kirk Ella Grange gentleman
Dispute over tenancy and tenant rights between Thomas Leason of Ellerker and Teavil Leason of Everthorp gentlemen
this one would be interesting to see the photographs -
SP/2/124/19 Feb 1991 Sales particulars relating to Kirkella Grange, Riplingham Road, Kirk Ella
Includes photographs of exterior of building and floor plan
zEUR15 - HOWDEN CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH RECORDS
1-2 Apr 1840 Lease and appointment of new trustees for the Protestant Dissenting Chapel at Howden and release of trust estates
Parties William Watson, West Ella Grange, farmer;
SO which William Watson is this ??? Is this your family Pankpop ??
1841 census @ West Ella Grange
William Watson, 40 Farmer
Ellen Watson, 9
Sarah, 8
Samuel, 2
Elizabeth, 11 mths
Maria Watson, 20 Farm Servant
6 other Servants.
Baptisms
Ellen Watson 1831 Swanland Independent... )F William Watson M Ann
Sarah Watson 1833 Swanland Independent... )F """"""""""""""""""""
Samuel Watson 1834 Swanland Independent...) """"""""""""""""""""
Elizabeth Watson 1841 not found
William Watson 1828 Swanland Independent ) """""""""""""""""""""
Possible marriage William Watson to Ann Holborn @ South Cave, 11 Dec 1828
Possible death for Ann Watson... Ann Elizabeth Watson @ Sculcoates 22 Mar 1841
NO sight of William, Sarah, Samuel & Elizabeth Watson snr on 1851 census ::) except for:
William Watson jnr 22 Mar Farmer West Ella Grange 370 acres employing 6 labs, 7 boys, 4 in & 2 out Serv B. Kirk Ella
Eliza Watson, mar, 22. B. Ganton
Ellen Watson, Visitor, Unm 20 yrs Farmers Dau with Jackson family at Swanland
DDHB/15/2 12 May 1767 Lease for 8 years at £60 rent
...and John Watson of West Ella property: 2 cottages in Hessle and tithes of Tranby
SO who is this John Watson ???
Possible baptisms for him - omitted earlier born JW due to date of above lease
John Watson baptism: 05 Apr 1714 place: KIRK ELLA,YORK,ENGLAND
F. Steaphen Watson (Kirk Ella Blacksmith- checked with Kirk Ella Register)
John Watson baptism: 16 Sep 1719 place: KIRK ELLA,YORK,ENGLAND
F: John Watson (Farmer at Swanland- checked with Kirk Ella Register)
John Watson baptism: 07 Feb 1732 place: KIRK ELLA,YORK,ENGLAND
F: John Watson (of Anlaby - checked with Kirk Ella Register)
Now to backtrack a little with ref to Pankpop's info.. Let’s start with Joseph Watson, b. West Ella 1785 d. Kirk Ella 1855. He farmed at Kirk Ella Grange and the first time I can pick him up on records is in the 1834 Voters Roll, where he is recorded as farming 50 acres at Kirk Ella Grange.
this is after the Enclosure Act of 1824 as in doc's DDBD Ferriby, Swanland, Kirk Ella, West Ella and Willerby Enclosure Act 1824; I wonder if there is mention as to who had the property in 1824 ???
William Watson, Farmer, West Ella listed in Baines's Directory 1823 for Kirk Ella, so this is before Pankpop found him on the 1834 Voters Roll. So sometime between 1823-1834 he moved from a farm in West Ella to Kirk Ella Grange OR they are two different people ???
1857 sees Joseph Watson listed at Grange, Kirk Ella in Baines's Directory 1857.
b.
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Ok, there's a lot of confusion here but some good leads. My thoughts as follows:
Joseph Watson b1740ish was farming in the Swanland area 1779, when he was on the list of rentals. The number 10 is not his age but rather the rentable value of the land. In other words, the biggest Watson landowner in Swanland in 1779 was John Watson (perhaps born 1719), followed by Samuel, Thomas, Joseph, William, Henry. Could that mean that John was the oldest and possibly the father of Joseph? If Joseph was born ±1740, he would have been 39 in 1779 and John would have been 60.
We have already established that Joseph's sons were William (1768-1809), John (1778-?) and Joseph (1784-1855). William was farming at West Ella Grange when he died in 1809; if the William farming there in 1841 was his son, he would have been born in 1801 and only 8 when his father died. So he could not have taken over the farm at that age. Perhaps someone else stepped in (grandfather Joseph or uncle John?) and William took over in 1830 after leaving Kirk Ella (see below).
Most of the children of Joseph b1884 were born at Little Weigton so I think it's safe to assume that he's the farmer listed there in Baines' 1823. The first of his children born at Kirk Ella Grange was Rebecca, born 31 Oct 1830. So I think it's safe to assume that Joseph took over the lease at Kirk Ella Grange ±1830 (?taken over from William Watson, but which one?) and was there until he died in 1855, when it passed to his son Joseph.
So perhaps the line run like this:
Henry, Overseer of the Highways of Swanland in 1695, died 1723 - leaving 5 sons: Henry, John, William, Thomas, Samuel
John b±1690, farmer at Swanland
John b1719
Joseph b±1740
Joseph b1784
Sounds plausable - but we need proof :-\
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Finally got the death date of Joseph Watson born 1833. He died 2 August 1889 at Woodhouse Farm, leaving a pretty nice estate valued at over £18,000. The will was proved on 18 Sept to John Fisher, a timber merchant of Willerby Hall, and Robert Fisher, a farmer at Leconfield, two of his executors. John Fisher was probably a close friend of Joseph, as it was his daughter Edith who married Joseph's eldest son, Arthur. Haven't traced Robert Fisher but suspect he was John's brother.
Woodhouse Farm proved pretty unlucky for the descendants of Joseph Watson (1784-1855). His son William took over the lease in 1848 or so, when he was 25 and the next year fire destroyed his barn. In 1862, his son, William, died there aged 3, then William himself died there aged 52. Joseph, who had been farming at Kirk Ella Grange, took over the farm and died there himself aged 56. Arthur, Joseph's eldest son, took over but he died five years later, in 1894, aged only 35.
Pankpop
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Hi Pankpop
You done good and now it all joins up.
Tis very sad that Woodhouse Farm brought them so much grief :(
I didn't get back to finding anything else out, got side tracked with family stuff.
bendywendy
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Hi,
Well I'm the relative of Joseph Watson. He was my fourth Great Grandfather. I come down through his son William Watson and his son William Andrew Watson who Married Ruby Ethel Crickitt/Crickett and imigrated to NZ in approx 1906. There were 3 children in that Marriage of which Cedric Andrew Watson was my Great Grandfather and Headmaster at the Motokaraka school in NZ. Cedric married a Myrtle Eilleen Routley and together they had 3 Sons. My grandfather Gordon John Watson founder of Fidelity Life Assurance NZ. then there was his brothers. Hillary Watson and Alan Joseph Watson. Hillary is still living and is frail. However I got to spend 3 months in New Zealand and visited with him to talk about the Watson family history. He couldn't tell me a terrible lot. However I did bring back to Australia a bag of goodies including photo's of the Watson that looked as though were taken around about the early 1900's along with many letters that were written to the Watson family in england. I will try to post these over the next few days if anyone is interested.
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Hi Andrea11
Many thanks for your input into this family.
It would be wonderful to see some photo's and any letters.
I do believe we have emailed each other before about this family. I will PM you.
bendywendy
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Hi, I'm just going through all the paperwork and photo's now there is so much of it two huge bags full. Letters, Wills and legal communication. I haven't yet found any Wills or legal communications for the Watsons of Woodhouse but will keep searching.....There is soooo much to go through.
And yes we have e-mailed before and I have lost you off my contact list for some reason.
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Hi everyone,
These are photo's of Unknown Watsons in the line of William Watson Born 1823 Little Weighton and dies in 1875 in Cottingham. The single photo's come from a little photograph book that looks as though Sarah Watson has written her name on the inside cover. The Double picture I have no clue as to who they are but am sure they are Watsons. I got all these photographs that belonged to my great grandfather Cedric Andrew Watson. So if anyone could help by putting names to faces it would be much appreciated. I still have many more photo's and letters to go through and will post as soon as I can.
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Hi Andrea:
Looking forward to more postings. Sarah, William's sister, was my great great grandmother.
Pankpop
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Hello Pankpop,
I have some more photo's to post it's a shame I can only post two at a time so will endeavor to get them up ASAP. If you are able to help Identify who they are I would really appreciate it.
Kind Regards
Andrea
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More unknown Watsons of Cottingham/Kirk ella
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Unknown Watsons
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I wish I could put names to these photo's of the Watsons.
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Pankpop it appears we could be relatives. I desend from William Andrew Watson's line. He was my Great Great Grandfather. I'm not sure who the couple are in the next photo. I'm pretty sure they are Watsons though. I have looked right through other family branches however still investigating one possiblity that they could be William Andrew Watsons in laws. He was married to a Ruby Ethel Crickett/Crickitt. But if you have any ideas please let me know.
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Hi everyone,
Just wondering does anyone have a photo of Woodhouse Farm. Sad News today for me Joseph Watson b1785 3ard great grandson Hillary Watson passed away in Auckland, New Zealand aged 83yrs.
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Andrea:
Sorry to hear about Hilary passing away, but he lived to a good age and it's great that you re-connected before he went. These pics you've posted are wonderful but I'm afraid I can't help with identification. The only Watson pic I have is of Sarah, William's sister. Keep posting, please!
Pankpop
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Hi Andrea
Sorry to hear about the passing of Hilary, sad but you at least met him just in time to gain some info and these wonderful photos.
Link to an image of Woodhouse Farm
http://www.geolocation.ws/v/W/File:Woodhouse%20Farm,%20Raywell%20-%20geograph.org.uk%20-%20644454.jpg/-/en
Re-looking at the photos, the one of the man under the writing from Sarah, he looks like he is wearing a "dog collar" possibly a Methodist Minister or Clergy of C of E etc.. I would plump for the Methodist. Have you found any Watson as a Methodist Lay Preacher or Clergy ??
bendywendy
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Another connection has been made to this branch of the same Watson line, on the following thread link
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=614138.new#new
This is by MarySusan and her line extends to USA from Raywell/Cottingham.. Bruce Milton Watson, born Sept 28, 1927 in Los Angeles - Edward Damorn Watson, born in Missouri, May 12, 1889 - James Watson, born in November of 1852 in Cottingham, Yorkshire - William Watson, who was born June 17, 1823 in Little Weighton, Yorkshire - etc..
bendywendy
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No I haven't found any clergy Wendy.... Hopeful though.....
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Hi everyone
Well once again we are back to the Watson clan.
Here is a new thread, makes interesting reading, but can anyone else help with further information.
Joseph Watson son of Joseph Watson and Lavinia Sanderson
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=685138.0
bendywendy
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Hull Daily Mail, Saturday 6 June 1908
Wills of the week
Mrs Lavinia Watson of 12 Grove Terrace, Beverley, who died on 2nd May last, aged 44 years the wife of Mr Joseph Watson, late of Gardham, left estate valued at £2,254 14s 4d gross of which £2,093 9s 8d is net personality.
I have just been on a website for historic inflation for these figures, this is what they equate to now:
£229,796.44 & £213,363.84
bendywendy
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Well after a long absence from this saga of the Watsons I am amazed to find your still going and unearthing so much about this family. What have I started?
I visited Canada and met William and Joseph Watson the grandchildren of Joseph Watson and my great auntie Alice the nurse that he eloped with, formally of Low Gardham farm.
Note how the continue to use the Watson names of William and Joseph.
Joseph return to England a year after arriving in Canada and I now see why, it was due to the death of his Wife Lavinia and it maybe that his eldest son followed him back. My understanding is that Joseph and Alice never got married but made out that they were and no one knew any wiser. They are both buried together in the same grave in the church yard in Niagara Falls where they lived. I have visited the grave and also the house in which they lived. Joseph worked for the parks authority maintaining the gardens etc.
Regarding 14 Queensgate Beverley as a matter of interest, the numbering originally use to go from 1 to 2 to 3 and continue before they introduced even numbers one side of the street and odd on the other side.(one of those boring facts).
Anyway nice to hear your all still going strong, well done.
Broadgate
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Hello again broadgate
Keeps us on our toes do these Watson's.
Now can you ask William if Joseph ever lived at Mimico Avenue, Toronto as well as asking if he knew of Joseph's son Joseph marrying a Beulah Bahnsen in Ottawa 2 Jan 1915 please.
I had a gremlin in my comp and lost some contact details one being William's.
bendywendy
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I good to hear from you again, I've sent off the message to Canada, spent a week last year over in Canada staying with Joseph Watson. I have attempted to attach a photo of Alice Hood who is in her mid eighties when it was taken. She being the nurse they all mention in the great elope of 1907
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This is a photo of Alice Hood at the time of the great elope of 1907 with Joseph Watson
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hello again, photos are lovely and the saga continues on the other thread ... ::) and a new thread for Mimico Avenue... http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=685491.new#new
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A little while since we all posted on this thread.
There is another thread on rootschat relating to son Joseph Watson jnr son of Joseph Watson the eloper, it maybe of interest for those concerned with this family to read it and see if you can add anything etc..
Joseph Ralph WATSON
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=685138.0
I am still searching for information relating to brothers Cyril Douglas and Harold ???
bendywendy
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Wow, I am amazed at all the new information regarding the Watson family. Unfortunately there is no more news on my grandmother Enid Lavinia Julia Watson married name Gilmore. She was the daughter of Joseph Watson the eloper and sister of Dorothy, Joseph and Cyril. Enid and her future husband John William Gilmore went to Canada to stay with her father Joseph and his wife Alice for a while and had a child called Roy Edmund Gilmore. I did notice in one of the wonderful photographs there is a picture of Enid as a child with her mother and brother Joseph and sister Dorothy which is lovely as I only have one photograph of her.
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Hi Bendywendy, you mentioned you are still looking for info regarding Cyril Douglas and Harold Watson, on the hand written family tree I have from Peter Joseph Watson he has written Harold died in WW1 of his wounds
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Will have a search for his Commonwealth War Grave tomorrow.
b.
Just realised he was born 1899 so he must have entered the war either under age or only just 17/18 years of age, may make it easier to find his death or grave etc..
b.
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I have searched the Commonwealth War Graves database for Harold Watson. The Commonwealth War Graves have 13 Harold Watson's who died in WW1 and from this list I have narrowed down 2 possible deaths against the ages, places of birth and whose details don't have any family members names listed.
This one is a good contender, although this would make him only 16/17 yrs of age:
UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919 about Harold Watson
Name: Harold Watson
Death Date: 25 Sep 1916
Death Place: France and Flanders
Enlistment Place: Hull
Rank: Private
Regiment: King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry
Battalion: 10th Battalion
Regimental Number: 34803
Type of Casualty: Killed in action
Theatre of War: Western European Theatre
Comments: Formerly 3945, E. Yorks Regt
Commonwealth War Graves:
Rank:Private
Service No:34803
Date of Death:25/09/1916
Regiment/Service:King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry 10th Bn.
Panel Reference: Pier and Face 11 C and 12 A.
Memorial:THIEPVAL MEMORIAL (France)
NO family members names on this entry
And the other possible entry without family members names, although this date would make "our" Harold only 15/16 yrs of age:
UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919 about Harold Watson
Name: Harold Watson
Residence: Islington
Death Date: 18 Aug 1915
Death Place: Gallipoli
Enlistment Place: London
Rank: Rifleman
Regiment: London Regiment
Battalion: 11th (County of London) Battalion (Finsbury Rifles)
Regimental Number: 3342
Type of Casualty: Killed in action
Theatre of War: Balkan Theatre
Commonwealth War Grave:
Rank: Rifleman
Service No: 3342
Date of Death: 18/08/1915
Regiment/Service:London Regiment (Finsbury Rifles) 11th Bn.
Panel Reference: Panel 197 and 198.
Memorial: HELLES MEMORIAL (Turkey)
No family members names on this entry
I cannot find any Service Records for these entries so most likely they were destroyed in the WW2 bombings.
bendywendy
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The first Harold Watson killed Sept. 25th 1916 was Harold R. Watson son of Mrs. M. E. Watson of Brantingham..he was in his 22nd year...according to FindMyPast newspaper report.
Hope this helps.
Carol
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Thanks Carol,
I wonder if he lied about his age or changed his name like his siblings did ???
I will have a look at the others with middle names and try and cross ref with Ancestry for further details, can you find anything for 2nd entry I put on please.
b.
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Nothing else mentioned in Hull or London Wendy ::)
I think the information was provided by relatives for the newspapers.
Carol
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Thanks Carol, that Harold R is Harold Robinson Watson 1895 Beverley covers Brantingham.
I think Harold could be lost forever as I have found a tree with that Harold of Islington on.
I bet he changed his name or he went to Canada to join his father and joined the Canadian Force, I wonder :-\
b.
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Have you considered this one Wendy:
Name: Harry Watson
Birth: Sculcoates, Hull, Yorks
Death: 27 Aug 1915 - Home
Military: Hull
Military: Home
Carol
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I was just looking for home deaths, wondered if he had got a Blighty for his injuries, this death date would make him under age, but still possible. This death isn't listed on FreeBMD or Ancestry, is this under Military Deaths and how do we find more info for it ?
b.
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It's on Ancestry:
UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919
Name:
Harry Watson
Birth Place:
Sculcoates, Hull, Yorks
Death Date:
27 Aug 1915
Death Place:
Home
Enlistment Place:
Hull
Rank:
Private
Regiment:
Prince of Wales's Own (West Yorkshire) Regiment
Battalion:
9th Battalion
Regimental Number:
10382
Type of Casualty:
Died of wounds
Theatre of War:
Home
Carol
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He's here too:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=watson&GSfn=harry&GSbyrel=all&GSdy=1915&GSdyrel=in&GScntry=5&GSob=n&GRid=130436775&df=all&
Carol
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oh dear, not him !!!
b.
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Back to Kirk Ella Grange Farm, found this in newspaper:
Yorkshire Post and Leeds Intelligencer 01 August 1887
To Let, Kirk Ella Grange Farm, from Lady Day, 1888, at present in the occupation of Messrs. C & H Jewison - Apply to Josh. Watson, Wood House, Brough, East Yorkshire
again newspaper:
York Herald 06 February 1847
Deaths: On Tuesday 2 inst., aged 10 years Barry Wride second son of of Mr Joseph Watson, Kirk Ella Grange
bendywendy