RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: RankGorger on Thursday 19 May 11 02:55 BST (UK)
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Hello all,
In the past few weeks I've been looking into my family tree and have found an awful lot, however I'm running into some problems despite extensive use of Ancestry and FreeBMD.
I've always known I'm of traveller descent, and was wondering if anyone could shed some light on the Coopers that were in the Surrey area (especially Croydon). I think I've tracked my great grandmother as Lavinia Cooper (b. 1893-ish) who married a William Reading. As far as I can make out her mother was Amey/Elvinia Cooper (b. 1855) (both names seem to be used).
If anyone thinks they're connected I'd be interested to hear from you as I have a huge amount of information to share.
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Hi just seen your message im a newbie on here & this is my first post.
I have Coopers that lived mainly in Wilford Rd Croydon. I have not come across a Lavinia in my own tree but there is probably a connection somwhere along the line- they were a big family. I have just checked my records tho and found an Elivia Cooper 19 m a John Cooper 23 at St Saviour Croydon 1872 have you got that one?. Brides father george Cooper hawker grooms Edward Cooper Labourer.
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Yes, that's the one. The problem I have at the moment is confirming that my g-grandmother Lavinia was indeed the daughter of the Elvinia we've mentioned. I have the marriage you mention as happening on 13th Feb 1872 at St Saviour. I'm reticent to start going further back until I am reasonably confident that I'm on the right line. Another confusing factor is that Elvinia seems to be called Amey in some Census forms (like 1901) - that's what makes me doubt the lineage.
How do these people fit into your tree?
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Hi
As I said I have not yet found a link I just make a note of any references for Coopers in the same area in the South East where mine travelled and alot of them are to be found at Mitcham and Croydon and as the extended family usually travelled together there is usually a family tie in somwhere.
i found a few baptisms on the romanygenes website which I dont know if you are aware of ( if you dont google the website as it has a wealth of info) On some of the records Elvinia has been recorded as Alvinia & maybe Alvie/ Elvie was used as a shortened form and this sounded like Amy to the enumerator of the census.
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dont know if this is of interest of you maybe know already but there is famous cooper, who was the royal rat cathcer. matty cooper born about 1800-1811 died 1900 wife eliza lee or james died abt;1865
:D
a.
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Hi
Hope you don't mind me butting in,i have coopers in my tree. My GG-grnadmother was Harriet Gladwin nee'cooper who married a George they both lived on mitcham common.. And they went on to live in wiford rd,maybe my coopers could be related to yours.
jew
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The problem I have at the moment is confirming that my g-grandmother Lavinia was indeed the daughter of the Elvinia we've mentioned.
Ok, so what do you know for sure about your Lavinia and why do you think she may (or may not as the case may be) the daughter of the "Amey" (Alvey/Elvina) in the census 1901 census at Epsom?
Casalguidi :)
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aa1webb - He could figure into it somewhere, but I haven't quite got that far back yet :)
jew - it's certainly possible. I haven't yet come across a Harriet - what timescale are you talking about?
Casalguidi - this is what I know for sure: Lavinia Cooper married a William Walter Reading in 1916. The marriage record says her father was called John Cooper. The only person I can find in the Surrey area called John Cooper on the 1901 census with a daughter called Lavinia/Lavenia was married to a woman called Amey (he was also the only John Cooper that was a travelling gypsy). I couldn't find John and Amey's marriage, but I found someone with a similar tree to mine on Ancestry, and their John Cooper married an Elvinia (for which I can find a marriage record in 1872). They haven't answered my messages, so right now, that's all I've got.
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There is famous cooper, who was the royal rat cathcer.
??? That's fascinating! Because, an old mate of mine ~ a Cooper, obviously ~ is 'Rat Catcher' to the MOD. As was his father before him.
I wonder if there's some hereditary link here?
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Is she the Lavinia READING who died circa early 1973 in the Sutton, Surrey registration district? If so, her date of birth given in the death indexes is 11 Sep 1891 though, of course, this is only as accurate as known by the person who registered the death.
Do any living family know if she had any brothers/sisters and their names/marriages/info etc.?
Are the names of witnesses on Lavinia's marriage certificate any use ie. could they have been relatives?
Is there any address given for her on the marriage certificate?
Have you found Lavinia in the 1911 census? I think I can see Elvy as "Alby" with a John and Edward of the correct age in the free index living in the Kingston, Surrey registration district http://www.1911census.co.uk/
Casalguidi :)
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Whilst I can't be 100% sure, I'm going with the assumption that, yes, that is her death record.
I didn't know of that 1911 census record, but looking at it makes me wonder if it's a different family from the 1901 census:
- It says that John is only 7 years older (not 10)
- The gap between husband and wife's ages has shortened from 7 years to 2 years
- Amey has changed to Alby
- Edward seems to be an only child as opposed to having at least 5 siblings
- John is now a greengrocer instead of travelling gypsy
Thanks for having a look. I'll try and get the marriage certificate.
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hi steve g
its not my line but this one was rat cather to the queen :o
seems quite possible that they could be connected
a.
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This one was rat cather to the queen
Precisely. And my mates Dad was 'Rat Catcher' to HM Dockyard ..... My mate, having taken over, now services general MOD sites all around the central south of england.
He must be pushing sixty by now. Assuming he was born when his Dad was about twenty? ..... Sorry. I can't count to save my life :-\ But, what? Maybe a couple of generations?
As far as I'm aware, the royals no longer have personal Rat Catchers. But, equally, I don't expect ye got a whole, Royal Dockyard to yeself, just by going to the Labour Exchange and applying either.
And Cooper all the way? Starting to walk remarkably like a duck, isn't it? I wonder if we're onto something here? Just to spice things; I'd imagine ye aware of possibly The most famous Rat Catcher to The Queen: " Jack Black ". Pattern emerging ....?
I'm off to Google " Matty Cooper ~ Rat Catcher " ;)
Apologies to " Rank Gorger " if we've somewhat bent this thread. But, is it not fascinating to consider the Cooper family as a whole? Can't get too much 'feel' for a people, I always feel :)
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Hi RankGorger
Sorry i did not get to you sooner.. About my GG-grandparents Harriet cooper and George Gladwin. They used to live in a tent on mitcham common. And i don't know what timescale they moved to wilford rd. All i know they lived at 24 wilford rd? Maybe i might come across the date sometime.
jew
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Hi Rank Gorger
Just to throw another thought in to this, some of the Coopers from Wilford Road also went under the name of Williams, and were related to Samuel Cooper of Crystal Palace. He died in a fire trying to put out a chimney fire with his son Nelson I am not sure of the dates at moment as not done any research for a long long time.
hope this is of some help
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Hi
I am directly related to the "Norwood" Coopers which stemmed from King of the Gypsies Samuel Cooper b 1794 who died putting out a chimney fire in 1856. They lived originally on South Norwood Hill also known as Gypsy hill
His son Robert Cooper who "married" Sylvia Williams. as they were not married a lot of the children went under the name of Williams and others under Cooper depending on what they felt at the time.
A lot of the Coopers moved to Wilford and Forster Road Croydon after Gypsy Hill South Norwood was purchased by the train company that built Gypsy hill station.
Matthias Cooper the royal ratchatcher that befriended the young Queen Victoria is related to the Norwood Coopers way back through James and Harriet.
Joshua Cooper who is related to matthias Cooper, "married" Alathiah (many spellings of this name) Taylor originally of Nottinghill. She died in 1902. She had several children that some carried the name of Cooper, some Taylor and she had a liason with Fighting Sam Smith of whom they had a daughter called Isobella/Isabella Smith.
She married into my Hunt Family.
Flora Mills daughter of Flora Cooper and Aaron Mills married into the same Taylor family marrying Alfred Taylor who we believe to be the son of Athaliah. but we cannot find his birth record.
Alfreds family grave in Queens road cemetry has Daniel Cooper and his wife Jane (nee Mills) I asked the grandaughter of Irene Taylor daughter of Alfred who is the main person named in the grave of why Daniel and his wife were there and she repied that Alfred Taylor and Daniel were brothers.
The Cooper 's of Croydon are all intergrated every where and I have to go to work now and I will study the conversation and see if I can help anyone
Idf you cannot find a family member after the fathers name try looking if its been transcrivbed as the MOThers name.
This happened quite often, as the law stands today also, if you are not married you must register a child legally with either the father being there if the child is to have the fathers name or the childs name would have to be registered in the mothers name. If so on the census you may find the child is known as the fathers name.
Very complicated and my gypsy heritage has caused me a lot of headaches.
If one relationship broke up and they started another children could well be related but carry different names, but on the census could all carry the same name.
Il be back about 1030 tonight.
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to Gorger Just noticed your entry that your coppers lived in 24 Wilford Road, well my dad was born in 23 Wilford Road.but many many years later.
Also Wilford Road and Forster Roads are no longer in existance, they started to pull them down just before the 1939 war and it was known as Bangole and bombs destroyed the rest of it.
Alot of the families from these two roads are buried in Queens Road Cemetary which was situatted at the end of these two roads.
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Hi
If anyone want to find out about coopers from mitcham common and wilford rd. Where mine came from.
Theres a site called WWW.knowhere croydon message board. Log in Banghole nick name for wilford rd Etc.
Most on their are related to coopers. Got loads in my tree. And i look at graves in Queens rd croydon and found some coopers. And found a family member i add these graves to names on my tree. Plus found other family graves. I found a tony on the croydon message board related to my coopers.
jew
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Hi
Would anyone know about the coopers who lived in wilford rd? I found lots of other family lived in wilford rd not just coopers. I have tons of family living there at the time.
I have lots of diff-grandparents living in wilford rd.
Would anyone know about a Harriet cooper who married a george Gladwin who lived in wilford rd. These are my GG- Grandparents they 1st lived on mitcham common. She is a romany gypsy and he a irish gypsy.
I think she was born Norwood?
jew
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Hi
Just out of curiosity who are the rest of your family names and do I know you?
I am related to the Mills, Thompson, Coopers and HUnts, Taylors and other roads you should be looking at are Forster Road,Qeens road and St Saviours Road, Pawsons Road, Mayo Road etc.
I have lots of info.
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Hi nightnurse
You don't now me. I'm from a potter family from croydon wilford rd
Not sure if these are same coopers as yours.
My GG-grandmother is Harriet cooper m Geogre gladwin both lived on micham common. than moved onto wilford rd. Her parents are Levi cooper b 1827 m counselletti Hilton b 1891?
And found grave of my GG-gran harriets brother james cooper who married Harriet lee lived in wilford rd.
Buried with his sister Lenda Lee nee' cooper. Think Lenda is a sister
Grave details Queens rd croydon.
Grave no 36209 Lenda Lee died 1836 82yr
Also james cooper died 1943 and Wife Harriet cooper nee' Lee d 1952 80yr
Also grandson Frank cooper d 1957 26yr.
I have Taylors in my tree. From my GGG-grandmother Kezia Roberts who married George curd. She married a Thomas Taylor before hand who died young and had two children with thomas.
jew
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Hi nightnurse
I worked it out now. Lenda Lee nee' cooper on grave with Grandparents James and Harriet cooper nee'Lee
Lenda married a william lee. William is buried in mitcham with my GG-grandfather George Gladwin who m harriet cooper. whos sister is lenda.
jew
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Hi there
I have been doing a Cooper Tree on my Familytreemaker as a private tree basically as a one named tree.
I have gleaned info from different members of the Cooper Tree which hopefully will connect all the Romany Coopers.
On this tree I have your levi Cooper born abot 1827 who married Counselette Hilton,
Do you have Levis parents as James Cooper and Harriett? and if they are then he is related to Samuel Cooper 1794 to 1856 of South Norwood.
What I cant find is the marriage between Harriett Cooper and George Gladwin. I found them on the 1891 census as you said at 24 Wilford Road Croydon.
Do you have the marriage certificate? or did you get her maiden name from a childs birth certificate?
This is of interest to this quote posted by Rank Gorger
I've always known I'm of traveller descent, and was wondering if anyone could shed some light on the Coopers that were in the Surrey area (especially Croydon). I think I've tracked my great grandmother as Lavinia Cooper (b. 1893-ish) who married a William Reading. As far as I can make out her mother was Amey/Elvinia Cooper (b. 1855) (both names seem to be used).
If anyone thinks they're connected I'd be interested to hear from you as I have a huge amount of information to share.
I have a list of christenings and marriages etc from familiar churches round the south east who would entertain the ceremonies of Travellers and there were not very many.
But I have christening record for
the following.
Lavinia Cooper bap 14 Jan 1892 to John and Alvinia born Sept 1891 Croydon.
Ted Cooper bap 12 July 1894 to John and Alvina Hawker no fixed abode Croydon Surrey
What you have to remember that very few Romany's could read or write, and it was up to the person who was taking the information to write it down as they heard it. Some accents were very strong so it was a hit and miss in the spelling area!.
I have a 5 page dossier on the Cooper christenings from 1795 to 1904 so far . if anyone wants to ask me if there rellie is on it dont hesitate to ask. The areas involved are mainly Surrey Sussex hampshire .
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nightnurse51, that would be MUCH appreciated. It sounds like the right one as I received her death certificate a short while ago and it says she was born 11 Sep 1891. I'd be very interested to see your dossier.
The Ted entry puzzles me. I have an Edward with a DOB of 4 Sep 1895.
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Hi nightnurse
Yes i have Levi cooper Parents
james cooper b 1790? And Harriet
children Randall cooper b 1820
samuel b 1827
william 1833
jessie 1823.
Not sure if birth date right for james and harriet.
My nan told me about the cooper side. Her mother is jane Gladwin whos parents are Harriet cooper and George Gladwin.
jew
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Hi night nurse
Forgot to Add I found James and Harriets grave in Queens rd. Buried with their Granddaughter Lenda Lee nee' cooper. Lenda is sister of My GG-gran harriet cooper who married George Gladwin.
I add graves to my tree. And i found 3 other cooper graves in Queens. I take photos of graves.
jew
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Hi there
Got to go to work now but do you have a marriage record for Harriet and George?
xx
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Hi I too take lots of pictures of graves as they can give you loads of info that you didnt know existed.
.
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Hi nightnurse
I don't have Harriet cooper and George Gladwin marriage details. I looked on two other trees and they have marriage details. something i would love to have.
jew
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Hi there
You probably dont remember what year or where they married do you asa I am struggling to find it.
I suspect that harriets maiden name may have come from a birth certificate. She may have married before and remarried George in that name . Ill still look. In 1891 they were 31 and 30 yrs old so one was born about 1860 and the other 1859 Also I couldnt find them in 1881.
I am going to see my Dad in Woking in October and if thay married in Surrey I will pop into the Surrey Archives and do a bit of research.
I never copy from another tree unless I check it out with hard evidence such a certificate or a parish record.
How far have you gone back with your Coopers?
Do you belong to Ancestry? The person you really should get in contact with is Jackie Blackman.
She used to run a website called Passing through but for reasons I wont go into shut it down.
If I can remember rightly she is connected to Arthur Cooper from the Norwood Coopers of which Wilford and Forster and other surrounding roads had many descendents.
I have been to work and I have some house work to catch up with, Ill take a look later on.
Regards x
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Hi Nightnurse
Not sure where my mind is somtimes ??? I send you a message that i looked at two other trees and they had marriage details,meant to say they never had marriage details..
I found Harriet and George on romany genes they lived on mitcham common. Than moved to wilford rd.
I have gone as far as Harriets Grandparents James cooper and Harriet And her father Levi cooper.
I'm on genes and Ancestry. Just thought i say,you said you take photos of graves. Been to queens today to take photos of graves who could be family? And other names i have in my tree.. I have 3 photos of cooper graves from while back and found 3 more today. Hope i can fit them to my tree sometime.
Thanks if you can help find marriage of Harriet and george.
jew
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Hi
No probs it was not unusual for a marriage not to take place. for whatever reason.
Ill keep looking. I am just putting some old photos on facebook for my cousin.
I will gradually update you on Levi as I find it. There are a couple of Levis so we will have to be careful that we pick up the right one
But I have some baptisms of the children of Samuel Cooper 1794 and Florina. (according to the 1851 census was born in Beckenham.
Faurnitty Cooper bap 6 apr 1823 Ewell Surrey
Vansloe Cooper 24 April 1825 bap Ewell Surrey
Nelson Cooper bap 15 Mar 1829 Bap Eltham Kent
William Cooper bap 21 Aug 1831 Upper Norwood
I find a baptism of a William Cooper on the 10th oct 1865 to a Levi and SARAH traveller Ashtead Surrey.
Now is that your Levi ?? or not we ask ourselves/
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Hi nightnurse
I have not got a levi and sarah on my tree.
I've looked at 3 peoples trees who all related to me. And all of them have Levi cooper Died 17/3/1893 No birth? Death croydon. Married counselletti Hilton Death date 3/5/1891 no birth date?
Buried with them Anne Braithwaite and levi and counselletti Granddaughter Eliza smith. I don't know much about coopers. But we get there.
Thank-you
julie
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The chances that the Anne braithwaite may or may not be a relative, but if the Coopers were in a common grave, thay can put anyone in there.
I came up trumps with my gt gt grandmother when I found her grave, in qr cemetary unmarked and asked Croydon bereavement office in mitcham road if I could put a plaque on it they told me I had to name oll occupants and it turns out she had a son and a daughter in there as well.
They are very helpful so if you know of a relative's death year and qrtr a rough idea where they were living they will trace it as QR cemetary is data based.
I have just found your entry in the website My brighton and Hove website which I found interesting and very informative.
THe Dellaway connection pricked my ears up as my great grandfathers sister married a Dellaway so I might try and go forward to see who her children were and if there may be a connection.
Her first three children with George Gardner were George b abt 1888, Catherine Louisa b 1891 but reg as Gardiner the same as Noah in 1895.
She married George Dullaway in June qtr 1907 under her maiden name, but I think the family name was Dellaway.
I know the Gillams married into the Dellaways because I have found children b post 1911 with mothers name of Gillam. My Uncle Tony often mentions the Gillams.
There are several possibilities of children from 1907 to 1910 Ill have to go on the 1911 census.
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Hi Nightnurse
My Dellaway i was a patrica who married a ward he could still be living. Than went on to marry my uncle George potter.
My G-gran susan curd sister kate married a Robert Glliam croydon. Alot of people are related to each other from wilford rd areas. Small world.
I need to go to mitcham office because my GG-gran Harriet cooper who married George gladwin. She is buried in Queens rd croydon. Buried by her daughter Alice(councey) Found she is buried in a paupers grave with 5 other people who may not be related. I have her grave number if its right. See if i can get them to put a marker on the spot she was buried. Plus i have death date and place.
I have 6 cooper graves i taken photos from Queens rd. if you or anyone on here want details of the graves i could put on here. Can't fit them on my tree as i don't know who they are.
Have nice day weather nice.
jew
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Daniel Cooper and Jane are on Jaqui Gomms mums grave.
Give me the details and I will see if I can connect. Dont forget Cooper is a common name and they are not necessarily all travellors but I suspect being in QR they are.
I have found a record for Levi Cooper in the criminal records at Maidstone for Larceny under his mothers maiden name of lee he got a year. 12 Mar 1855.
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My great Aunt Louisa Thompson b 1907 married a Jack Ward in 1925 and had a Kitty and there were two other children. She ended up in Bevan Court Waddon and died aged 87
I think John Ward b 1926 , Robert A Ward b 1928 and Kathleen E Ward b 1929 are hers but I will have to check with my Uncle John. Kathleen I think is the one that was known as Kitty
There is a Francis in 1931 and very much later a Pamela in 1942 but unsure wether that would be Aunt Lou as the mother.
The reason I think the other 3 are hers because of the names. Robert would be after her brother, kathleen after her sister my nan and John would be after her Uncle John Thompson.
I know one of the children ended up in Australia and I believe another ran the Swan and Sugar Loaf at South Croydon.
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just spoken to my Uncle John and he tells me there was John, Eric but he was reg as Francis Kathleen known as Kitty and yes Pamela. The two girls married and lived in Dunley Drive New Addington.
John moved to Aus. and Eric did run the Swan and Sugar loaf.
Hes just learnt that Kitty has recently died.
I will now check up to find out who they all married.
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Hi nightnurse
yes the wards came from new Addington,as some still live there i know.
Details of cooper graves Queens rd.
william cooper died 14th jan 1930 age 77
Also daughter Emily Eliza Died 27th oct 1952 77yr.
next william charles cooper Died 23 june 1947 62yr
Also maud Eliza wife Died 27th july 1958 72yr.
next john henry cooper Died 2oth july 1900 46yr
Also wife jane Eliza 4th 1944 83yr.
next william cooper died 2nd june 1920 66yr
Also wife mary ann died 14th jan 1930 77yr
Also Emily Eliza daughter of above died 24th or 25 oct 1951 or 52.
next Ellen cooper died 9th dec 1949? Also her sister charlotte cooper d 11 aug 1954.
next walter charles cooper son of above william cooper and Ellen cooper
Died may 15th 1892 3yrs 5 months.
Thats all i have so far.
jew i have a look on here later. Thanks for othre info
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Hiya Jew and Nightnurse
I'm related to you both! Levi Cooper (father or Harriet and Lenda etc) is my gggg grandfather. His daughter Harriet Cooper did marry George Gladwin.
I'm happy to help you out with information, and likewise I hope you can help me too (especially with photos etc).
I await your reply,
Thanks
Lindsey
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Hi marlloco
Nice for someone to come along whos related. Nightnurse will have more info than me.
But any info be good,what ever you have?
I'm on genes doing my tree,lots of info on there. Are you on genes? You can look at my tree.
Don't have any photos of coopers thats what i want to add to my tree. But have lots of other pics of people on my tree. Harriet cooper and George gladwin my GG-grandparents. Their daughter Jane Gladwin married Charles Dollin and than a william jarman. Jane and charles dollin daughter is Harriet potter nee' Dollin who married my grandad George fredrick potter have a photo of her and George and 4 of their young children. And i put this on my tree. And my nan in her 80s. She died 2004. waiting to see her son to get his brothers address so i can write to him and ask if his mother,my nan. Have any photos of harriet cooper and george gladwin and her mother jane.
jew
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Hi marlloco
Forgot to add. I take photos of graves to add to my tree. found a few. i have photo of Harriet cooper who married George gladwin. Her brothers grave james cooper and harriet kent. same grave with Lenda Lee nee' cooper her sister and james. Buried Queens rd croydon. Lendas husband william Lee is buried with George Gladwin over mitcham and George son william Gladwin. And some other person. Got to go mitcham office so i can find George gladwin grave.
jew
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Hello marlloco
My 3rd great grand aunt Ann Woolger, b. 13 FEB 1816-Wisley,Surrey
Married into the Cooper family from Surrey,
her husbands name was George Cooper, b.1816 Surrey, England
I have all there Children, Grand Children & Great Grand Children
In my family tree, all from Surrey,
Kind Regards
Keith
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Hi Keith59
I have lots of coopers in my tree from surrey. George cooper who married Ann woolger i don.t have these on my tree yet. who was Georges parents? Hope you don't mind me asking
jew
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Hi Jew and Keith,
Thanks for your messages. Unfortunatly I'm not sure if we are related Keith, but if you let us know more people in your family tree then maybe we can find one?
I'm not sure how far you've got but here's some info...
Counsellti and Levi Cooper had Lenda, Joseph, Harriet, James and William (Bundle) - Bundle was my gg grandad.
Dad Levi was the son of Harriet Lee and James Cooper.
James and Harriet had Randall, Jesse/Jessie, Levi, Samuel and Levi...
Mom Harriet Lee was the daughter of Sophie Stanley and David Lee.
Sophie and David had 11 children all in all.
I hope this is isn't confusing! I've got some dates and certificate somewhere which I'll have to find out!
Also Jew how do I find you on genes? Hopefully I will be able to add to your tree. I haven't got mine on their yet, I haven't carried on with my tree for about a yr now, so it will be interesting what new info I can find!
Also any photos etc is much appreciated, especially as I live on the Welsh border so London is over 100miles for me to travel!
Many thanks and looking fwd to hearing from you,
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Hi Jew
As you know, the parents of Levi Cooper (born 1827) were Harriet Lee and James Cooper. I've got a list of their children if you haven't.
Here's some more info....
Harriet was the daughter of Sophie (or Sophia) Stanley and David Lee (born 1762):
Sophia and David Lee married 1787 in Brede, Sussex.
Sophie was born around 1765-70.
David was born 1762 in Brede, Sussex.
Together Sophie and David had:
1. Nathaniel (christened 17/08/1788, Brede, Sussex and died 1788)
2. James Methuselah (1789-1853)
3. Harriet (born 1790) ----- this is our line
4. William (born 1792)
5. Lydy/Lydia (born 1794)
6. Charlotte (1795-1878) --- I have more on this line if you want it
7. Zachariah (1792-1889)
8. Noah (christened 18/03/1798, Andover, Hampshire)
9. Henry (born 1798)
10. Sophy (1801-1802)
11. Daphne (born 1806)
12. William (born 1807-08)
13. David (born and died 1808)
14. Laura (born 1811)
15. Job (christened with his sister Patience, though I don't think they are twins 07/04/1816, Walthamstow, Essex)
16. Patience (christened with her brother Job as above)
David Lee (born 1762) was the son of Hannah (born 1745) and Elisha (Rightdoer) Lee - Junior (born 1737):
Hannah and Elisha had children:
1. Zacharia (born 1759)
2. Mooney/Moonie (born 1760)
3. David ------ this is our line
4. Manfield/Mansfield (born 1765)
5. Samuel (1773-1859)
Elisha Lee (born 1737) was the son of Elisha (Rightdoer) Lee -Senior and Phillis:
Both father and son were known as Rightdoer.
Elisha Senior was born 1710, Brede, Sussex. The name "Rightdoer" I've been told has been in the family for generations.
Phillis and Elisha had:
1. Oliff (born 1753)
2. Duke (born 1734, died 07/08/1766) --- I've got more on this line if you want it. Duke was executed (hung) for stealing horses at Peneden Heath. I've been told his father was executed also. As per http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/kent.html
3. Elisha ---- this is our line
4. Mary (born 1739)
5. Sally (born 1760, Chesham, Buckingham)
I hope this helps?
Best wishes
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Hi marlloco
Yes i have some of this info,but i had not all children. Thank-you thats helped me.
What ever any info you have just send when you have time.
Thank-you
jew
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Hi
I have the weekend off so I can study the grave info and see what I come up with.
I do have some photos,but Ill have to sort them out.
Carol x
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Hi nightnurse
Thanks.... plus no rush.. When the weather gets better i will go over Queens rd again. Seen more cooper graves. Plus looking for lots of my family buried there. Than i look over mitcham graves sometime as i have loads more family there,and look for coopers there. Which i need to find my GG-grandfather who married Harriet cooper.
Thanks again
jew
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Hi im also related to the Coopers buried in Queens Rd my Great Grandfather was Daniel Cooper whom is burried in the Gomm grave .my Great grandmother is also in the grave .I never knew they were there until nightnurse got in touch and found we were related.could you let me know
where there are other cooper / mills graves in Queens as my mother still lives in area and i am always in cemetery looking.
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Hi palacedave
You be related to me. My GG-grandmother is Harriet cooper married George Gladwin. Harriets family married into smiths and lees.. Think mills?
I gave nghtnurse info,of few cooper graves i found over queens rd,not sure if they are related.
Found Harriets sister Linda (Lenda) Lee nee' cooper over Queens. What Gomms was Daniel buried with?
i have My G-grandad Alfred potter brother william married a Edith Gomm she was b 1919 and william 1917
Not sure where buried.. Not sure who Daniel is to my Harriet?
jew
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Hi they are in with Irene Gomm grave which is in the centre of the cemetery towards Mayo Road.
the Iverson graves are just inside the Pawsons Rd entrance.
I got a lot of info from the Romany Museum in Kent where they have the Cooper/ Taylor tree pinned up on the wall.They confirmed that Daniel was son of Atherlia Taylor and Joshua Cooper
cant find much on either other than Joshua was killed in a bare knuckle fight on Putney common
If anybody has any info could they pm me details or photos
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Hi Lindsey
I brought the book Old ways,and New ways you and Rosie smith wrote. Great book with loads of info and photos.
Wonder if you can help me? on page 23 there is a photo.
reads Top; foxs's Louise smith and Lena cooper and mary smith. So it looks like Lena holding a child.
would you and Rosie know? would this be Harriet cooper and George Gladwin daugther who married james Green and than Alfred Thorpe? in photo. or would it be Harriets sister Lenda cooper who married a william Lee? Hope you can help.
jew-julie
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Hi everyone
Especially Julie and Carol
You are all a mine of information
Levi is my gg/gfather
I lived in wilford up until 1964
Havent been on this site for ages
Have to be at least once a week now
Hugs
Tony
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Hi marcopolo
Levi cooper is my g/gfather
james and harriet are my g/parents
sons james and frank du unity
9 wilford rd
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Hello Jew and Palace Dave
As you are both mentioning the Gomm grave in Queens road cemetery, Irene & Thomas Gomm are my parents. My mum's maiden name was Taylor her parents are Flora and Alfred Taylor, Flora's maiden name was Mills and her fathers name was Cooper also the family went under the name of Williams, from the family of Samuel Cooper of Crystal Palace.
Alfred is also buried with his brother Daniel and wife Jane Cooper which is the Taylor/cooper family who come from Notting Hill as well as Croydon.
The other people in the grave is my mums brother, sister and brother-in-law.
If I can be of any help do not hesitate to ask as I did do a lot of work on my family tree at one time but due personal reasons have not done much in the last 5 yrs but always keeping a eye on things .
Jacqui ???
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Hi
This is the Royal Ratchatcher Matthias cooper
someone was talking about
jew
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Very interested in this as I am directly related to Matthias Cooper (my great great great grandad). The person who said that they often go by the name of Williams is correct too. I am related to the coopers and Williams from Mitcham Common as per census records. Looking to exchange info.
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ah yes i have that photo to and some newspaper clippings, not my direct line but coopers and shaws :-\
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Matthias Cooper the royal ratchatcher that befriended the young Queen Victoria is related to the Norwood Coopers way back through James and Harriet.
Hi Nightnurse
You mean James Cooper and Harriet Lee? The parents of Levi Cooper husband of Consuletti Hilton? From whom I am descended. I've traced Harriet Lee ancestry way back, but James has been my brickwall, I always suspected he was related to either the Norwood Coopers or the Windsor Coopers, but never suspected he would be related to both. What is the connection and sources please.
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Hi anothercooper
I hope you dont mind my jumping in nightnurse is from same tree - dif grandads. We were given a tree a few years back that had James & Harriett as father of Samuel Cooper ( Norwood Sam) & have since worked out that cant be right as Sam was b around the same time as Harriet so she cant be his mother. In trying to unravel the info we were given I have started to try & look into the Cooper families that travelled in the South and I feel that they will all turn out to be related as they mostly had large families.
Matty Coopers line has been well researched.
I have been also looking into Fighting Jacks line & got iterested in finding about him & his life. He is said to have had a brother Jem ( James) & he is a possible candidate for your James cant find a baptism yet though. I will dig out my notes with what else might be of interest....
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Ah well, never mind Lelu.
Your supposition is interesting as Harriet would certainly have known her sister Charlottes in-laws. I'll read up again and see what Mr Barrow has to say. Meanwhile I have (and as yet unsubstantiated); Henry, Elisha, Thomas and Daniel as brothers of Fighting Jack, and wasn't Fighting Jack a 1st cousin of Matty? Your Jem/James is news to me.
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According to John Hoylands book A Historical Survey of the Customs Habits & present State of the Gypsies 1816 it is mentioned that Lussha Cooper - ratcatcher wife & 10 children were living at Tottenham Court Rd. I have as you mention Elisha Thomas & Daniel & sister Trinity/Finetta as Jacks siblings. I have not seen the notes myself but I got the info from a wbsite that no longer on line that the University of Liverpool archives adds 4 names - Kezi, Leonard, James & Duke who was b @ 1811. I have been researching old newspapers & there was also a brother Soloman.
.....
There was a gipsy bare knuckle fighter called Jem Cooper around the same time as Jack & Tom.
I have managed to find a record of a few bouts which he lost on 18th June 1822 to George Lenny in a match that lasted 45mins at Hampton Races & 4th August 1829 when he lost to Owen Swift author of the book Handbook to Boxing ( where info is from) the purse was £14 & lasted 9 rounds -25mins. A picture of this match appeared on the front Cover of Famous Fights Magazine Vol V111 No99.
......
This maybe the same fellow...
Mourning Chronicle 26 May 1836
James Cooper a gypsy was tried on 2 indictments charging him with violently assaulting 2 policemen whilst in the execution of their duty on Epsom Downs....
He was also tried on another indictment & was found guilty in both cases -he was sentenced to Brixton gaol to hard labour & pay to keep the peace the sum of £40.
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Im not sure on Mattys relationship to Jack I have seen others have them down as first cousins & another Matty is down as Jacks uncle I have not worked it out myself yet!
.....
Last thing I would mention at the moment is that there was also a Joseph Cooper that was b @ 1820 that was transported to Tasmania in 1843 on the ship Emerald Isle he seems to have got mixed up with Jack in Australia - it was him that died of old age not Jack.
He mentions for family father James Deptford 1 b Levi & a sister Rosa
see Founders & Survivors.org
You will also find info on Jacks brother Tom there he was transported in 1833
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I have Lusha Cooper as the brother of old Mary's husband (Matty's dad) though I never had the husbands forename. I don't remember the source offhand, likely Charles Leland or JGLS. Which would place Matty as Lusha's nephew.
I have been meaning to get a copy of Hoyland's book, but without the later information from Liverpool, I would've been none the wiser.
That information has given me something to go on.
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With regard to reply #45 some of the information relating to the LEE family is a bit ‘enthusiastic’, for example, David LEE did not marry Sophia STANLEY at Brede.
The following references to the COOPERs at Croydon were originally supplied by Jackie Blackman and I have been systematically checking them at source. This symbol [Ø] means I have not yet checked.
COOPER BAPTISMS AT CROYDON:
SRY Croydon St John bp11/7/1817 Uriah s/o William/Lucy, trav’g brazier of Woodside
SRY Croydon St Saviour pbp3/1/1872 (b20/12) Fanny d/o John/Elvey, lab of 25, Wiford Road
SRY Croydon St Saviour bp21/7/1872 (b21/6) Aaron s/o Aaron/Flora, hkr of Dawson’s Road
SRY Croydon St Saviour bp14/1/1892 (b11/9/1891) Lavinia d/o John/Alvinia, hkrs of Mitcham Common
SRY Croydon St Saviour bp8/5/1892 Mary Victoria d/o Daniel/Mary Jane, hkr of 63, Wilford Rd, C. (out of sequence in register)
SRY Croydon St Saviour bp12/7/1894 (b12/7) Ted s/o John/Alvina, hkr of nfa
SRY Croydon St Saviour bp17/2/1895 (b17/11) Edith Maud d/o Daniel/Jane, hkr of 84, Wilford Rd., C
SRY Croydon St Saviour bp14/4/1895 (b29/1) Counselletta d/o James/Harriet hkr
SRY Croydon St Saviour bp7/6/1896 (b7/4) Henry James s/o James/Harriet, hkr of 81, Wilford Road
SRY Croydon St Saviour bp16/3/1899 Elizabeth d/o Daniel/Jane, hkr [Ø]
SRY Croydon St Saviour bp4/6/1899 Elvia d/o Samuel/Rebecca, flr.slr [Ø]
SRY Croydon St Saviour bp3/6/1900 James s/o James/Harriet, hkr [Ø]
SRY Croydon St Saviour bp28/12/1901 Irene Grace d/o David/Winifred, trav [Ø]
SRY Croydon St Saviour bp30/3/1902 (b6/11/1901) Joseph s/o James/Harriet, hkr [Ø]
SRY Croydon St Saviour bp31/7/1902 Isabella d/o Daniel/Jane, hkr [Ø]
SRY Croydon St Saviour bp18/2/1904 Athalia d/o Daniel/Mary, lab [Ø]
SRY Croydon St Saviour bp22/6/1905 Frank s/o James/Harriet, hkr [Ø]
SRY Croydon St Saviour bp6/7/1905 Daniel s/o Daniel/Jane, hkr [Ø]
SRY Croydon St Saviour bp26/11/1908 (b10/1) Unity d/o James/Harriet, hkr of 22, Wilford Rd
SRY Croydon St Saviour bp16/4/1911 (b22/1) William s/o James/Harriet, hkr of Wilford Road
SRY Croydon St Saviour bp16/4/1911 (b22/1) George Henry s/o James/Harriet, hkr of Wilford Road
SRY Croydon St Saviour bp13/3/1913 (b8/2) Thomas William s/o Daniel/Jane, lab of 14, Foster Road, C
COOPER MARRIAGES AT CROYDON:
SRY Croydon St Saviour m13/2/1872 John COOPER (23) lab (fa: Edward lab) = Elivia COOPER (19) (fa: George – hkr)
SRY Croydon St Saviour m12/8/1889 James (23) lab (fa: Levi – hkr) = Harriet KENT (17) (fa: Thomas – whitesmith)
SRY Croydon St Saviour m23/10/1893 John WILLIAMS (25) hkr (fa: Robert COOPER – hkr) = Susan PENFOLD (23) wid (fa: Stephen SMART – lab)
SRY Croydon St Saviour m23/12/1900 Rhoda (23) (fa: William) = Henry WOODBRIDGE (26) gn.dlr (fa: William – blacksmith)
I have another 250 references to COOPER in the counties of Surrey, Kent and Sussex as well as 200 for Hampshire and will add them if anybody asks. The following is in connection with the GLADWIN family mentioned above:
GLADWIN
KT.BRO Orpington All Saints bp16/7/1899 (b17/3) Parthenia d/o George/Harriet, frt.pkr of O
SRY Croydon St Saviour bp11/7/1886 Rosetta d/o George/Harriet, mne st dlr
SRY Mitcham bp4/1/1880 Richenda d/o George/Harriett, gipsy
SRY Mitcham bp5/7/1888 Jim s/o hkr of 23, George/Harriet of Half Acre Row
1881SRY-0826/148/36 Mr [George] (22) pedlar, Harriet (21) +1
1891SRY-0592/15/29 George (32) hkr, Harriet (31) +4
These COOPERs immediately follow the above GLADWINs in the 1881 census
1881SRY-0826/148/36 Thomas (30) pedlar, Elvey (27) +5
And these are the parents of Harriet in 1871
1871KT-0794/91/11 Levi HALL [née COOPER] (44) cl.pg.hkr, Consoletta [née HILTON] (37) +5
TL
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Thanks KOTG that's helped with Parthamey's baptism.
Any idea why Levi was using the name of Hall on Plumstead Common in '71?
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Hi All
I'm not sure why Levi and Consoletta my 3rd Grandparents went under hall?
I have this info
Name consoletta Hall
Event census date 1871
Gender Felame
age 37
Relationship to head (Wife) Brith place croydon surrey
Reg/District Woolwich
Sub District Plumstead Kent
Household gender age brithplace
Self Lew Hall m 44 plumstead kent
wife consoletta hall f 37 croydon
Dau/Belendia Hall f 18 croydon
son/joseph Hall m 13 croydon
Dau Harriet Hall f 9 Fulham Fields middlsex my 2 grandmother
Son james Hall m 8 Little Down surrey
Son william Hall m 6 Little Down surrey.
So not sure why they went under Hall. I give this info in case it helps anyone.
Harriet Gladwin nee coopers my 2x Grandparents had a Dau/jane Hetty Gladwin B 18/3/1893 Croydon or Norwood? Flowerseller. She is my G-gran who married Charles Dollin who died in 1918 wwl france. And remarried to willam jarman croydon. She had one child Harriet potter nee' Dollin my Nan. Trying to find janes Baptism?
julie
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I've found Jem Cooper on a shopping bag 8)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Famous-Fights-Vol-VIII-No/dp/B004PGRXXW
I must say, I seem to have have inherited that manly physique :)
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In response to a PM, COOPER BAPTISMS
KT
KT.STR Ash (next Ridley) bp22/7/1900 Amy d/o William/Florence, trav
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp4/4/1917 (b11/5/1902) Edward s/o Matthias/Matilda, hkr (dec’d) of Occupation Rd
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp31/10/1920 Edwin s/o Edwin/Faney, hkr of 146, Occupation Rd
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp31/10/1920 Lena d/o Samuel/Lena hkr of 153, Occupation Rd
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp6/1/1924 Annie d/o Samuel/Selina, hkr of 153, Occupation Road
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp7/6/1925 Kate d/o Thomas/Hosheanna, hkr, 160 Morton Rd
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp22/8/1926 Celia d/o Ted/Matilda, lab of 62, East Road
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp17/6/1926 Walter s/o Samuel/Lena, hkr of 153, Occupation Rd
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp25/4/1928 Jane d/o Samuel/Lena, hkr of 153, New Road Rd
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp27/1/1929 Peter s/o Ted/Matilda, lab of 62, East Road
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp17/3/1929 Betsy d/o Thomas/Ocean, hkr of 34, Morton Rd
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp27/4/1930 Olive d/o Thomas/Olive, hkr of 155, Lower Road
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp13/12/1931 Samuel s/o Thomas/Polly, hkr of 155, Lower [sic] [Date of bp is missing, next date given is 20/12/1931 TL]
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp28/3/1937 (b18/3) Emily d/o Henry/Emily, la of 153, New Rd
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp2/5/1937 (b13/4) Mary Elizabeth d/o Samuel/Ellen, lab of 35, New Road
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp1/1/1939 (b27/11/1938) Sameul Stanley s/o Samuel/Ellen, lab of 35, New Road
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp3/9/1939 (b15/8) Counseletta d/o Thomas/Olive, lab of 35, New Road
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp7/4/1940 (b18/3) Samuel s/o Edward/Famey, hkr of 57,Harrow Mannorway, Abbey Wood
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp28/12/1941 (b7/12) Thomas s/o Thomas/Olive, lab of 31, New Road
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp7/4/1946 (b26/3) Alfred James s/o Samuel/Ellen, hkr of 27, Occupation Road
KT.BX Belvedere St Augustine bp24/4/1949 (b2/4) Thomas s/o Samuel/Ellen, lab of 35, Occupation Road
KT.GRN Charlton St Luke bp22/1/1832 Keziah d/o John/Phœbe, lab of C
KT.GRN Charlton St Luke bp19/1/1834 Saint Helena s/o John/Phœbe, trav’g brazier of Lewisham
KT.GRN Charlton St Luke bp19/10/1834 Joseph s/o Joseph/Keziah, trav’g butcher of Lewisham
KT.GRN Charlton St Luke bp5/6/1836 Thomas s/o John/Phœbe, trav, bricklayer
KT.GRN Charlton St Luke bp29/10/1837 Victoria d/o James/Lucy, tinman & brazier of C [margin: Gipsy]
KT.STR Crockenhill bp26/7/1856 Lucy d/o Uriah/Mary, travs
KT.STR Crockenhill bp13/7/1884 Mathias s/o Samuel/Patience, trav’g hkr of Brighton
KT.STR Crockenhill bp28/6/1914 (b2/6) Priscilla d/o George/Finetta, hkr of trav’g wagon
KT.STR Darenth St Luke Green Street Green bp24/12/1922 William s/o William/Leander Brittania, hkr of G.S.G
KT.STR Darenth St Margaret Antioch bp16/3/1921 (adult) Cinnaminte d/o William Thomas/Emily, hrs.dlr of Stone, KT
KT.BX East Wickham bp3/5/1896 Liddy d/o Thomas/Emma, gipsy of E.W
KT.BX East Wickham bp24/2/1929 (b28/1) Vanzalowe Stanley Francis s/o Vanzalowe /Frances, lab of 51, Torel Ave., E.W
KT.GRN Eltham St John bp6/4/1823 Faurnitty d/o Samuel/Floriana, brazier of E
KT.GRN Eltham St John bp15/3/1829 Nelson s/o Samuel/Floriana, brazier of liberty of Kidbrooke
KT.GRN Greenwich St Alphege bp2/4/1815 (b29/3) Spicer s/o William/Anna, brazier of Blackheath
KT.GRN Greenwich St Alphege bp4/6/1827 (b28/1) Henry s/o Job/Ann, gdnr of Woolwich Rd
W.KT Hawkhurst bp7/10/1849 George s/o Edward/Sarah, rat-catcher of Back Road
W.KT Headcorn bp23/2/1848 Elijah Albert s/o John/Hester, trav of H
W.KT Lamberhurst bp9/9/1877 Henry Nocton s/o Francis/Alice, hrs.dlr of Guildford
W.KT Offham bp24/9/1843 Elizabeth GREY d/o -/Eliza COOPER, single of Findsbury crossed
out and replaced by Elizabeth d/o Arthur/Esther GREY, bsk.mkr of Findsbury
W.KT Offham bp5/10/1843 Esther d/o -/Eliza, of Hawthorne nr Portsmouth
W.KT Offham bp19/9/1847 Walter s/o -/Eliza, of the Point, Portsmouth
W.KT Offham bp9/10/1853 Wandlow s/o -/Eliza, of Portsmouth HAM
W.KT Offham bp10/9/1899 Eliza d/o Winslow.Mary, soj, hkr
W.KT Offham bp14/9/1913 Mary Ann d/o Samson/Lender, of Royston
KT.BRO Orpington All Saints bp30/6/1895 (b31/1) Rachel d/o William/Amy, trav of O
KT.BRO Orpington All Saints bp16/7/1899 (b21/7) William s/o Spicer/Alice, frt.pkr of O
KT.BRO Orpington All Saints bp5/7/1908 (b16/7) William s/o William/Mary, hkr of O
KT.BRO Orpington All Saints bp4/6/1916 (b18/9/1915) Patience d/o -/Caroline, hkr of Fairfield
KT.BRO St Paul Cray bp3/11/1957 Leonard s/o Leonard/Caroline, (Rye) [sic] gn.dlr of 8, Farington Ave., S.P.C
W.KT Sevenoaks St John bp14/6/1896 Patience d/o Perrin/Elizabeth, gas stoker of Washington Yard, Battersea
W.KT Sevenoaks St John bp28/6/1903 Gentilia d/o Samuel/Annie, hkr of Clapham [deleted]
W.KT Sevenoaks St John bp9/6/1912 Samuel Walter s/o Thomas/Oceana [lab] Greyfriars Fm
W.KT Sevenoaks St John bp9/6/1912 Oliver s/o Oliver/Ada, lab of Greyfriars Farm
KT.STR Stone by Dartford bp26/9/1824 Kezia d/o Thomas/Mary, lab of S. Wood
W.KT Tudeley All Saints with Capel St Thomas á Becket (bp at Capel) bp11/8/1805 (b8/8) Hannah d/o William/Hannah, travs
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COOPER BAPTISMS continued
SRY
SRY Ashtead bp16/5/1865 Sinamentey d/o Spicer/Rosetta, cutler
SRY Ashtead bp10/10/1865 William s/o Levi/Sarah, trav
SRY Ashtead bp7/7/1872 Uriah s/o Spicer/Rose, ch.mnd
SRY Bagshot bp24/1/1899 Dorcas d/o Alfred/Matilda, dlr [Ø]
SRY Banstead All Saints bp15/1/1832 James s/o -/Gerania, vagrant
SRY Blindley Heath bp31/1/1904 (b15/7/1903) Eliza d/o Henry/Eliza, hkr of B.H
SRY.SUT Carshalton All Saints bp16/4/1820 Randall s/o James/Harriet, rz.gr of C
SRY.SUT Carshalton (b25/2/1868) Johanna d/o Spicer/ Rosetta [née MARGATE] tinker (bcert)
SRY Chaldon bp16/1/1898 Joe s/o Spicer/Alice, Gipsy of C
SRY Chaldon bp29/1/1899 Alma s/o -/Amy, Gipsy
SRY.SUT Cheam pbp9/1/1880 (b17/12/1879) Leah Hannah d/o William/Margaret, hkr of Banstead Downs
SRY.SUT Cheam pbp9/1/1880 (b17/12/1879) Zachariah s/o William/Margaret, hkr of Banstead Downs
SRY.SUT Cheam Lane (b25/2/1868) Johanna d/o Spicer/Rosetta [née MARGATE] tinker (b cert)
SRY Charlwood bp16/5/1725 Francis s/o Francis/-, a trav
SRY Chertsey bp24/10/1836 (b10/10) Thomas s/o Henry/Phillis, trav of C. Town
SRY Chessington bp17/5/1890 Walter s/o Daniel/Erania, Gipsy of The Town Lane, C
SRY Chessington bp5/5/1895 Leonard s/o Henry/Amy, Gipsy of Gipsy tent
SRY Claygate bp9/3/1904 Jesse William s/o Vanzeloe/Ethel, Gipsy travs, passing through
SRY Cobham bp1/1/1837 Francis s/o Matthew/Eliza, Gypsy, trav’g
SRY Cobham bp28/9/1861 George, trav’g Gypsies
SRY Egham St John bp6/2/1820 Oliver s/o John/Charlotte, lab of E
SRY Egham St John bp20/6/1869 Nelson s/o Nelson/General, dlr of Windsor
SRY Egham St John bp20/6/1869 Lemeataney d/o Thomas/Sarah, dlr of Windsor
SRY Egham St John bp9/8/1872 Job s/o Thomas/Sarah, dlr of E
SRY Egham St John bp9/8/1872 Sabina d/o Nelson/General, dlr of E
SRY Egham St John bp21/2/1875 Florence d/o William/Sarah, lab
SRY Epsom Christchurch bp3/7/1881 Ellen Ada d/o Spicer/Alice, hkr of E. Common
SRY Epsom Christchurch bp3/7/1881 John Henry s/o Spicer/Alice, hkr of E. Common
SRY Epsom Christchurch bp20/8/1882 (b13/6) John s/o Spicer/Margaret, lic.hkr of E. Downs
SRY Epsom St Martin bp7/6/1835 Dangerful s/o Nelson/Isabella, tinman & brazier of Reading
SRY Epsom St Martin bp24/4/1860 (b23/4) Job s/o Matthias/Eliza, Gipsies on E. Downs
SRY Epsom St Martin bp24/4/1860 (b23/4) Alfred s/o Matthias/Eliza, Gipsies on E. Downs
SRY Esher bp28/7/1867 Edward s/o Aaron/Cordelia, tinman [Ø]
SRY Ewell bp24/4/1825 Vanzloe s/o Samuel/Florina, brazier of Eltham
SRY Ewhurst bp30/4/1710 Elizabeth d/o William/Mary, travs of nfa
(HAMnow)SRY Farnborough St Mark bp19/1/1920 (b29/12/1919) Jemima d/o Albert/Hetty, trav of Fairground, Peabody Road
(HAMnow)SRY Farnborough St Mark bp10/7/1922 (b16/6) Mary Polly d/o Albert/Hetty, trav of Matthew’s Yard, Gravel Road
SRY Farnham bp10/12/1828 Jane d/o William/Lydia, waggoner of F
SRY Farnham bp16/9/1849 Jesse s/o Jesse/Susannah, lab of High **
SRY Godalming bp13/3/1864 Frank s/o George/Martha, swp of Church Street, G
SRY Ham bp30/5/1853 (adult) Elizabeth d/o -/Kuzziah, Gipsey of H
SRY Ham bp30/5/1853 (b1843) Sudan to –Kizziah, spin of H
SRY Ham bp30/5/1853 (b1841) Marianne d/o –Kizziah, spin of H
SRY Ham bp1/6/1858 (b16/7/1852) Cinderella d/o Edward/Henrietta, Gipsey of H
SRY Ham bp1/6/1858 (b6/11/1856) Samuel s/o Robert/Silvia, Gipsey of H
SRY Ham bp2/6/1868 (17) Cordelia d/o Werton (Weston?)/Henrietta, Gipsey of H
SRY Ham bp30/5/1864 (b6/3) Lentely (Jentely?) d/o William/Elizabeth, Gipsey of H
SRY Ham bp9/5/1869 (b1/5/1867) Louisa d/o Joshua/Eliza, bsk.hkrs of H
SRY Ham bp21/1/1872 (b May 1871) Alfred s/o Frank/Alice, of Windsor
SRY Hersham bp2/7/1883 Rhoda d/o Frank/Alice, gn.dlr of Kingston
SRY Kingston Hill bp13/7/1880 Ann d/o William/Eliza, hrs.dlr [Ø]
SRY Kingston Hill bp9/1/1880 Fanny d/o William/Eliza, hrs.dlr [Ø]
SRY Kingston Hill bp18/4/1888 Ethel Clara d/o Thomas/Elizabeth, hrs.kpr [Ø]
SRY Kingswood bp2/11/1879 John s/o John/Albinsia, hkr
SRY Longcross bp16/6/1885 Cynthia d/o Alfred/Matilda, hkr [Ø]
SRY Longcross bp29/4/1887 Amy d/o Alfred/Matilda, hkr [Ø]
SRY Long Ditton bp3/4/1692 Elizabeth d/o Edward/-, a trav
SRY Malden bp18/3/1827 Levi s/o James/Harriett, wandering Gypsey of Cheam
SRY Malden bp23/12/1832 Leonard s/o Francis/Sabrina, wandering Gypsey of M
SRY Malden bp28/3/1879 (b14/3) Rivensloe (Vanslow) s/o Daniel/Urania, trav of no abode
SRY Mitcham bp19/12/1877 Counselletti d/o Spicer/Margaret, Gipsy of M. Common
SRY Mitcham bp7/6/1885 William s/o John/Elvinia, hkr of Conifirs
SRY Mitcham bp7/5/1893 Levi s/o William/Amy, hkr of Common
SRY Mitcham bp6/1/1907 John s/o Duriah/Alice, hkr of Half Acre Road
SRY Mortlake bp31/8/1866 Allon to John/Elizabeth, cutler
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COOPER BAPTISMS continued
SRY
SRY Pyrford bp22/2/1857 Joseph s/o Levi/Consuletta, trav’g tinker
SRY Pyrford bp21/1/1872 (b May 1871) Alfred s/o Frank/Alice, trav of Windsor
SRY Reigate St Mary Magdalene bp16/11/1821 Riley s/o George/Eve, trav of R
SRY Ripley bp3/3/1907 Henry s/o William/Mary, hkr of R. Green
SRY Seaford bp25/9/1853 (b10/9) George s/o Charles/Ann, trav
SRY Shirley St John bp6/12/1862 Eliza d/o Spicer/Rose, hkr of S
SRY Thames Ditton bp13/8/1868 Leonard s/o John/Catherine, cutler [ot]
SRY Upper Norwood All Saints bp21/8/1831 William s/o Samuel/Floriana, trav’g hkr of N
SRY Upper Norwood All Saints bp11/9/1836 Lucy d/o Samuel/Floriana, brazier of N
SRY Upper Norwood All Saints bp2/7/1854 Mazally d/o Robert/Silva, hkr [Ø]
SRY Upper Norwood All Saints bp2/7/1854 Nelson s/o William/Hannah, hkr of N. [Ø]
SRY Walton on Thames bp23/5/1858 Oliver s/o Matthew/Eliza, trav of W
SRY Warlingham bp30/11/1902 Alice d/o George/Fanetti, hkr
SRY Warlingham bp29/1/1905 Ellen Ada d/o Duria/Alice, hkr
SRY West Molesey bp4/7/1852 Gentilla d/o William/Hannah, travs of W.M
SRY West Molesey pbp25/6/1854 Vandelow s/o Matthew/Elisia, hkrs, travs
SRY West Molesey bp29/6/1856 Perron s/o Matthew/Eliza, trav’g hkrs
SRY West Molesey bp6/6/1858 William s/o -/Alice, hkr trav’g
SRY West Molesey pbp11/6/1860 Menanatta d/o Francis/[Rumana?](Marianne?) travs of
Cobham
SRY West Molesey bp15/6/1860 William s/o William/Mary Anne, travs of Chertsey
SRY West Molesey bp19/6/1881 Mary d/o Francis/Alice, hkrs travs
SRY West Molesey bp13/3/1898 Urania Alice d/o Vanzeloe/Ethel, fm.lab (or hkr) of Apps Ct
SRY Warlingham bp26/6/1899 (b5/5) Knity to William/Amy, lab of caravan, Riddleston, W
SRY Warlingham bp30/11/1902 Alice d/o George/Fanetti, hkr of tent, Court Farm, W
SRY Warlingham bp29/1/1905 (b20/12/1904) Ellen Ada d/o Duria/Alice, hkr of tent, Court
Farm, W
SRY Warlingham bp23/5/1909 (b28/4) Emily d/o Isaac/Alice, hkr of van nr Albert Road, W
SRY Warlingham bp12/3/1911 Lavinia d/o James/Eliza gn.dlr van in Mead nr Sanderstead Rd
SRY Weybridge bp20/5/1876 Adah d/o Daniel/Urania, Gipsy of W
SRY Wimbledon St Mary bp2/7/1723 Susanna d/o Moses/Mary, travs [Ø]
SX
E.SX Alfriston bp20/8/1876 Samuel Sanger s/o Samuel/Patience, bsh.hkr of Brighton
E.SX Arlington bp11/1/1730 John s/o One/Mary (wife as he called her) a trav
E.SX Battle bp30/11/1836 (46) Sarah d/o Thomas/Sarah hkr [COPPER sic]
E.SX Beckley bp5/10/1884 Henry s/o Henry/Phillis, hkr of B
E.SX Beckley bp20/9/1936 (b14/11/1933) Emily baseborn d/o Amy, singlewoman of nfa,
hopping in Stoddard, B
E.SX Bodiam bp7/10/1827 Samuel s/o James/Sarah, trav of B
W.SX Boxgrove bp14/2/1704 Lucretta d/o William/Elizabeth, vagabond travs
E.SX Brightling bp13/9/1732 William s/o a trav
E.SX Brighton St Nicholas bp3/12/1820 James s/o James/Jane, lab of Chesterfield Street
E.SX Brighton St Nicholas bp24/8/1823 John s/o James/Jane, hkr of Chesterfield Street
E.SX Brighton St Nicholas bp26/12/1824 Jane d/o James/Jane, hkr of Chesterfield Street
E.SX Brighton St Nicholas bp6/4/1828 Charlotte d/o James/Jane, lic.hkr of Thomas Street
E.SX Brighton St Nicholas bp15/11/1829 Robert s/o James/Jane, hkr of Thomas Street
E.SX Brighton St Nicholas bp12/8/1832 Ambrose s/o James/Jane, lic.hkr of Thomas Street
E.SX Brighton St Peter bp15/11/1874 Gentilia d/o Samuel/Patience, lab of 9, Melbourne St
E.SX Burwash bp29/3/1818 George s/o George/Elizabeth, huckster
E.SX Hartfield bp7/5/1876 William s/o Anslow [al Vanslow]/Amy, tramp at Holbye
E.SX Herstmonceux bp28/8/1881 Patience d/o Samuel/Patience, hkr of H
E.SX Ifield bp2/11/1735 Richard s/o Francis/-, a trav’s child
E.SX Jevington bp25/8/1878 Thomas s/o Samuel/Patience, trav’g hkr of Oxdean Barn, J
E.SX Little Horsted bp19/12/1832 Alfred s/o George/Martha [Ø] [COPPER sic]
E.SX Preston St Peter bp29/6/1873 Mary d/o Samuel/Patience, hkr
E.SX Seaford bp25/9/1853 (b10/9) George s/o Charles/Ann, trav of Chichester
W.SX Staplefield St Mark pbp4/4/1862 (c2¼) Harriett d/o Levi/Harriett, lab, nsa [margin: gipsies]
W.SX Staplefield St Mark bp13/4/1869 Betsey d/o Levi/Consoletti, trav’g hkr
E.SX Warbleton bp25/10/1857 William Henry s/o Samuel/Eliza, bsk.mkr otp
E.SX Warbleton bp1/1/1860 James s/o Samuel/Eliza, lab
E.SX Warbleton bp26/6/1864 Frederick s/o Samuel/Eliza, bsk.mkr otp
E.SX Westham bp14/8/1890 Betsy d/o Vanlo/Amy, Gipsy people of Horsham
W.SX West Hoathly bp30/10/1736 Sarah d/o Joseph/Sarah, vagabonds
W.SX West Hoathly bp27/11/1853 Spicy s/o Uriah/Mary, trav’g grinder of W.H
E.SX Worth bp14/7/1733 Lydia d/o Joseph/Mary, strangers
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King otg
Thanks so much for posting these records.
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COOPER BAPTISMS continued
SRY Cobham bp1/1/1837 Francis s/o Matthew/Eliza, Gypsy, trav’g
Wonderful stuff! That'll keep me busy for a while!
Thank's for all the details King otg! Though for Francis, I needed no proof of baptism. The word of a Princess was enough for me.
I've just searched this site and am surprised to find that the following links have not yet been provided! So for the benefit of any Surrey Cooper Gypsy researchers who find themselves on this thread, who may not of encountered the connection before.
The Princess Victoria's Diaries: http://www.queenvictoriasjournals.org/search/displayItem.do?FormatType=fulltextimgsrc&&QueryType=articles&ResultsID=2722448819709&ItemID=qvj01562&ItemNumber=1&PageNumber=1&volumeType=ESHER
Start on the 3rd Dec 1836 and read through January 1837 and discover the effect the Cooper Family had on the 17 year old Princess Victoria. make sure you click on Lord Esher's Transcripts and scroll down to "Transcription" which is much easier to read than Victoria's handwriting.
Likewise: http://www.queenvictoriasjournals.org/illustrations/view.do?method=browse&illusType=sketch&sortOrder=oldestFirst
12th December to 12th January to view Princess Victoria's paintings of the Cooper Family.
Her diaries debunk the myth that it was Eliza Lee who informed the young Princess of her destiny to become Queen. Those details are to be found much earlier when her German Governess Lehzen provided the young Princess Victoria with the Hanoverian family tree.
Likewise the young Victoria makes no mention of Matty nor ratcatching at this early period: except to refer to him as "The Husband". That's not to say that she didn't provide him with employment at some later time.
As yet the digitization of the Journals are an on-going process. At the present time though only a little of them are searchable. Though 60 plus years worth of scans of Victoria's handwriting are there for the perusal of the brave!
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Does anyone have a family tree of my family the norwood coopers .Sam was my ggg grandad. The family finished up in banghole croydon both my nan and grandad were born there. Many thanks Max williams
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Sorry to jump in here but there's a lot of talk of Matty Cooper the (royal rat catcher) to be connected with the Croydon Cooper....Matty is from the Windsor Cooper I know this because he was my great , great , great ,great grandfather so i am a directly descented from this man .....Matty had 7 boys one of them called Vanslow , vanslow had a boy also called vanslow .......Vanslow jnr had a boy called Henry ....Henry then called he's son Henry ........Henry jnr called he's boy Henry (me father) Im called Henry and my little boy is called ......you guessed it Henry Boi lol..........We are all gypsies and proud still living the romany way in trailers ,yards and units and we still hold the name Cooper lol and I myself breed plummer terriers the best ratting dogs on the planet and we work them hard to Longtails (rats)hahaha
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My grandfather, John Hendon Samuel Cooper was born at 39 Acre Rd. Mitcham Croydon, Surrey, England to Samuel Thomas Cooper of Battersea and Maude Victoria Friday of Northfleet, Kent in 1907. His Coopers originated from Halstead, Essex years before, but would there be a connection to the Romany Coopers in the Mitcham area during the time of his birth? I hope someone on this forum can answer my question.
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my husbands grt grt grandfather was walter cooper and son of Thomas and sarah they go back to matty cooper
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Would the Mitcham, Croydon Coopers ca. 1890 - 1907 be directly descended from the Halstead, Essex Coopers in other ways than my aforementioned connection? I wonder what prompted my great grandparents to move to Mitcham, Croydon if it were not to meet other family, albeit distant cousins perhaps? It seems ironic that they were there at the same time noted Cooper Travellers/Gipsies were in the area.