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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Hertfordshire Lookup Requests => Hertfordshire => England => Herts Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: mickmack1942 on Saturday 21 May 11 19:27 BST (UK)
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I am looking for a child called ...Ruth Meade in the 41c aged 1 year, she was with her mother calling her self Ruth warrener, but as she did not marry Mathew till 1846 in London east, i am using her maiden name as Ruth jnr was registered as Meade in the first quarter 1839 in Ware reg dist jnr was called Mary Ruth Meade, hopefully this is my child , so any info would be use, Ruth snr recorded her self coming from Rickmansworth bn 1819, her father was Charles meade, live in hope die in despair.....mick
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Possibles (note spellings)?
1839 Ruth Mead Q1 Ware 6 541 Birth Reg
1841 Matthew Warriner is with Ruth (senior) and Ruth (1)
1841 Ruth Mead Q2 Ware 6 419 Death Reg
1846 Matthew Warrener / Ruth Mead Q3 Stepney 2 512 (Ruth pregnant?)
Aug 11 1846, St.Thomas
Both signed, signatures clear as spelled, both of full age
MW= 2 Charles Street,
RM= 7 Stepney Causeway
John Warrener, Shoemaker
Charles Mead, Blacksmith
Sarrah Halwarson
Charles Duckham
1851 Matthew Warriner is with Ruth (senior) and Elizabeth (5)
1854 Matthew Warriner Q4 St Geo E 1c 363 Death Reg
1858 Ruth Warrener (39-Widow-signed)
Charles Shepherd (47-Bach-Milkman-X)
Both Charles Street
Mar 22 1858, St.Philips,BethnalGreen
Charles Mead, Blacksmith
Thomas Shephard, Ropemaker
Joseph Robinson (X)
Frances Walker (X)
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Hi Ray of croxley creen, Thank you for all that, I am trying to find ruth jnr's Bp record, just for the record so to speak who daddy is and bth date but the Ware reg dist is quite extensive in places, just to fill a few gaps, ruth jnr was born out of wed lock it seems so might not have been churched plus the date she died, the reg dates are a bit to wide for me, to put some flesh on the child other wise its just a name, anyway thanks for your help....
good hunting.... mick
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Hi Mick
I don't think the Ruth Mead/e in Ware has anything to do with your Ruth unfortunately.
The death reg in 1841 Q2 Ware would, I suspect, be for Ruth Mead buried 13th May 1841 aged 2, Stanstead Abbots, St James. Her abode was Stanstead Abbots.
There is a christening on the IGI for Ruth Meade 2nd June 1839, Stanstead Abbots, parents Simon & Elizabeth which coincides with the birth reg in 1839 Q1 Ware.
Are you saying that Ruth's daughter was named Mary Ruth Mead, or have I got that wrong. ???
Are we still looking for a death for her prior to 1851 or perhaps not. :-\
Maddie
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Hi there Maddie nice to speak, I did not know for certain that the ware ruth was mine its that in the 41c my ruth mead had a child ruth aged 1, in the 51c there was no ruth, she would have been 11,I assume she died, and so I thought I would run with this to see if any one could throw some light on her, this is why I put it up on roots to test the water, had nothing in stone, I found my ruth in the 41c with this child and as she gave her origin as millend rickmansworth, I reasoned right/wrong that the child was of same as it seems out of wed lock because ruth senior marr in 1846 in london, ever hopefull there was a church record, but it would seem not the ware child was no mine......mick
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Sorry Maddie, I left a bit out from your post, all I know is that she was Ruth (Mead) as mummy was not married at the time, the info comes from the 41c she was with her future hubby Mathew Warrener of Boston lincs, and the 51c has ruth married and another child elizabeth...........mick
ps yes I am looking for a child prior to 51c......
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Hi Mick
I did see them on the 1841 but as there are no relationship details, perhaps one year old Ruth belongs to Mathew. Not likely I guess but who knows. ???
Will take another look later, in the meantime perhaps Ray will have some ideas. ;D
Maddie
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Hi Mick
I think this is a case of vanishing children...... :) Having no luck finding little Ruth & now I can't find little Elizabeth from the 1851 census, no birth or a death for either child. Found your Ruth in 1861 with new husband & 2 year old daughter Sarah. What is going on. :o
Have you found Ruth's parents Charles & Charlotte in the census, or perhaps even her sister Ann born c1821. I see she also had a brother Charles born 1809 but I think he died at 13 months & was buried in 1810.
Maddie
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Aha!
If the basis of where Ruth(b1819) was born is the 1851 census?
"Herts Millend" is what she said.
Millend may not be Mill End Rickmansworth.
It may be, say, Mill End, Rushden Herts (Buntingford area), or other.
Ray
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Hi Maddie and Ray, If I have the right Ruth the elder when I started all this some years ago of wich I cannot find another match as yet, she all ways gave her place of birth as millend, herts, ray as you pointed out about the mill end there were probably quite a few of places with that handle that in herts that have been dropped now, I have christening record of her...
eng &wales christening records 1530-1906 (Ancestry)
name.......Ruth Mead
gender......female
birth date......abt 1819
christening date..23 May 1819
place.......Rickmansworth, herts
father........Charles Mead (name given on marr record x2)
mother......Charlotte
The 41c to 61c she only put millend herts but in the 71c she gave ricky, so I believe I have the right girl, now what happened to ruth jnr and or as Maddie pointed out that elizabeth vanished as well, as you say what went on, I read somewere that very young children who died were not allways recorded in the church records, prehaps she gavethe 2 children away/adopted because she could not afford to keep them, prehaps mathew did not want ruth jnr as not his(need to find that birth), but elizabeth ??, as far as ruth snr's parents are concerned all I have is charles and charlotte mead, found a charles and charlotte in stewkley in bucks, 51c stewkley and hogston as place of,
Maddie you found a charles 1809 were was that record from, have ann 1821, i'll leave of here let you both digest it all put fresh minds to it......mick
ps that stewkley family cannot be mine because of time difference with charles at 1809, better ditch that one.
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Hi both
I don't think there is any doubt that Ruth was born in Mill End Ricky as the record from the IGI for her christening says Rickmansworth. The probable brother Charles is also on the IGI, christened 16th April 1809 in Ricky & then I have the burial record for Charles Mead, 28th March 1810 aged 13months at Rickmansworth St Mary.
Have to say, that is a long gap between Charles & Ruth's births but the parents are Charles & Charlotte for all. Incidentally they don't appear on my burial list in Herts between 1800 & 1851 so where are they. :-\
Maddie
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err! well,...I d'nt know is the simple answer, but other things I think I have found a Chas and char's marr...at st mary's church harrow,12 sept 1802 by banns, 20/6-27/6-4/7, page 109 in the register,this charlotte was a martindale mine! these people are in the right area and time, with this record theres no parents the wits were no use, I have found children in the general area ie hillingdon/harefield/uxbridge with a chas/char parents, but as you say theres quite jump to 1819 and 21, but I have at least one family begatting for 20+ years so its not beyond poss, could be that ruth was an accident but elelizabeth as well, have to do more digging..........mick
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Hi Mick
I don't know if this is of any use but I'm trying to build a bigger picture of the family in the hope that somewhere we find a clue.
I am assuming that Charles, Ruth's father was born in Ricky so, there is a christening on the IGI for Charles Mead, 14th May 1780 in Ricky, parents William & Ann. On my militia list there is a William Mead living in Mill End 1784 with three children & he is a Smith, in 1772 & 1773 he looks to have been in Croxley & a Blacksmith. Would make sense that Charles followed in his father's profession.
The marriage in Harrow that you found does look a possible if Charles was born 1780 & if we take Charlotte's age to be about the same then I guess she could have had Ruth & Ann at about 40, give or take a couple of years.
As you say, more digging is needed. ::)
Maddie
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wow you are a bit ahead of me you say the family is on the IGI, I tried and got nowere, better ask different questions, see if I can come up with them....mick
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Just checking those 2 births in Hillingdon/Harefield, the kids names are William & Ann, looking good.... :) Wonder if the Ann baptised 1805 died.
Maddie
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There a thomas 18/10/1807 on the same track at hillingdon,I tried the IGI for a char martingale on the new site and got a char martingal 19/7/1778, ricky by a samuel and martha, that would make char at marr appox 24 , I was wondering we have ruths bp date but suppose the birth was earlier say like 1815, i've allways found that the two happenings mean nothing in the scheme of things, I found one that got bp just before the wedding day.
mick
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Looks like a possible for Charlotte, although the name isn't quite right. :-\ Will check the ages for Ruth on the census again but think they tally with a birth date of 1819/20 although I do agree that baptisms can often be a couple of years after birth & even longer in some cases.
Have to brave the wind & take the dog out. ;D
Be back later.
Maddie
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Hi Mick
Well, I still can't get any where with little Ruth & Elizabeth but I think I can confirm that the Charles Mead & Charlotte Martindale/gal is the correct marriage for your Ruth's parents.
As you said, Charlotte born to Samuel & Martha 1778, according to the IGI they had 2 more kids, Susan 1776 & William 1780. Samuel Martingal married Martha Coster 28th May 1775 in Ricky. Martha Coster was baptised 1st May 1757 in Sarrat, parents Benjamin & Mary. (stick with me ;)).
Witness on marriage of Charles Mead & Charlotte is William Copper. Martha Martindale married William Copper 6th Oct 1789 Ricky. Martha Copper was buried 25th May 1823 aged 66 in Ricky, making her birth date 1757. :D
I think Samuel Martindale/gal died sometime after 1780 & Martha then married William Copper, making him Charlotte's step dad. ;D Also just noted Samuel Martingal in the militia list up until 1780 in Mill End. :)
Still looks like we have the correct birth year for your Ruth & those 2 little girls must be hidden in the records somewhere. Just need digging out. :'(
Maddie
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I better start logging all this, putting in my tree my head is spinning with all this info, I can only thank you, a thank you is poor return for your work, I would still be scratching on rickies door, its funny realy many years ago ricky was my stamping ground went out with a girl from there for a while, spooky what, what go's round etc..............mick
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No problem Mick, I enjoy research in my old stamping ground also. ;)
Will keep looking for the missing children... :-\
Maddie
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Just To add that I am researching Charles and Charlotte's son William bap at Harefield in 1803. He married Ann Bowler 1823 in Rickmansworth and died at West Hyde in 1875.
His Meads went on to live in Croxley Green.
I also wondered about he gap between Charles 1809 and Ruth 1819.
Both Charlotte and Charles died in 1824, buried within two days of each other aged 45 and 43.
Hils