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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cork => Topic started by: harkel25 on Wednesday 25 May 11 11:14 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I'm desperately seeking information about my great, great grandfather, Jeremiah Holy. I believe that he was born in Cork in 1814. Although I understand his family name to be 'Holy' it was listed as 'Holley' when he left for Australia aboard the ship, the 'Mary Nixon'; and was consequently recorded as 'Holly' on occassion.
I know nothing of Jeremiah's life in Ireland. I would, in the very least, be happy just to identify his parents (neither of whom were listed on his 1884 death certificate). I believe that his children may have been named after his siblings (or other family members), if this helps. His children were:
George
Michael
John Thomas
All of Jeremiah's children were born in Australia to Elizabeth Barry, who also travelled from Cork aboard the 'Mary Nixon'.
I would be very appreciative to anybody who may be able to help identify Jeremiah's true surname, parents, etc. or who may be able to point me in the right direction.
Thank you for your time.
Warm regards,
harkel25
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Unfortunately Jeremiah's birth is well before the start of Civil records and not knowing where in Co. Cork will make searching for him very difficult. To start a search for early church records you would need to know the family religion and where in the county they lived - i.e. town, townland or parish
see : Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html)
My Ancestor came from Ireland - where do I start? (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,498742.0.html)
Shane
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Hi Shane,
Thank you so much for the information - it was greatly appreciated.
I have searched Griffiths Valuations and found numerous Holy's listed in the parish of Castlemagner. I am somewhat confident that there's a connection, due to the similarity of the Christian names mentioned and those of my Australian-born ancestors. Jeremiah Holy, who travelled from Cork, had sons named Timothy, John Thomas, George and Michael - those mentioned in the Valuations. They may have been common names, admittedly, but it was not unusual to name one's children after siblings (or other family members). Furthermore, with the exception of Patrick Holy in Kilbrin and James Holy in Kilroe, there are no other Holy's listed. I can only assume that these Holy's are connected to Jeremiah; although that may be as far as I'll ever get.
I believe Jeremiah was a Presbyterian.
Thanks again for your information and time.
Warm regards,
harkel25.
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Hello
Your posting caught my eye because of the surname “Holley, Holly, Holy”. I stumbled upon this name as an “alternative” surname used by one of my ancestors. I had long struggled to find information regarding my 2x great-grandmother with the surname Cullinan (an it’s variant spellings!!). However, while tracing various members of this family I found that she has also been referred to in various documents with the surname “Holley” which did confuse me for awhile. I found the name Holley used on one of her children’s death certificates and based on this information I also found the birth entry for one of her six children that I never knew about. After some research, it appears that the name Cullinan had been “anglicised” to “Holley”– which I have since been told was quite common. I suppose the most obvious anglicisation of Irish names were the dropping of “O” and “Mc” from names -it has never occurred to me that her name might have been anything other than Cullinan.
The “Holley” name is originally from the E. Ulster area. The Irish – Mac Cuilinn was formerly Mac Uighilin. Also, sometimes it was a case of mistranslation whereby cuileann means holly – and I think this is how my ancestor came to sometimes use this name.
The name Cullinan itself has many variants and to date I have come across 3 different spellings: Cullenan, Culnan, Cullinan. I have been told that Cullinan is the usual way to spell it. The name seems to be most common around Ennis.
I hope this information will not confuse things too much in your search for your Cork Ancestors!
Kind regards :)
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The Irish for Holly (the tree) is Cuileann, which is the connection to the original surname Ó Cuileannáin.
I would include Cullinane as one of the common spellings.
Shane
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I am wondering if Harkel25 still checks in as I have some information that may be of interest to him in relation to the Holy Family of Castlemagner on whom I have done a lot of research, especailly those in Irealnd, but also on some in the USA and in South Africa. The family was centred on Cecilstown in the Parish of Castlemagner where they were significant tenants of the Becher family.
Ainmchleite
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Hi ainmchleite,
I can advise that harkel25, was online today, hopefully he may have contacted you by now, or very soon.
Tom
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According to some of our best and most widely-published authorities on Irish surnames (MacLysaght and de Bhulbh), “O hUallaigh” has come from the Irish word “uallach”, with a meaning such as “proud” “vain” or “boastful! This gives us names such as Holy, Holey, Holley, Hooley, Hooly, Howley, Wholly, Whooley, Whooly. Don’t worry unduly about the spelling as the English-language versions are, for the most parts, just approximations of the original Irish-language names which tried to capture the sound of the original Irish word. The names listed above are found mostly in West Cork, where ‘O hUallaigh’ seems to have originated. The name Holy and Holey (often interchangeable spellings) are largely confined to North Cork, around Castlemagner and Mallow with the Whooley version being very common in West Cork.
Shane writes that “The Irish for Holly (the tree) is Cuileann, which is the connection to the original surname Ó Cuileannáin”. Shane is correct. The names “Cullinan” (found mostly in Counties Clare-Limerick, Wexford-Waterford-Kilkenny) and “Cullinane” (found mostly in County Cork but also in Waterford-Wexford-Kilkenny) come from this root. The surname ‘Holly’, found mostly in Kerry-Clare comes from Mac Cuilinn but in County Antrim there is a family of Welsh origin, McQuillan, which then got to be mistranslated as “Holley” on the assumption that it was originally an Irish name!
During the great wave of Irish Emigration in the 19th Century, many of our emigrants could not read or write (even their names). Many were Irish speakers, some with little English. Consequently, when they met Emigration Officers, Census takers and other Officials, they were not in a position to insist on a particular spelling of the name. So, as you approach old records, do not expect consistency of spelling!
If this is not complicated enough already, I will offer one last complication. There is an English surname, ‘Holy” (originating in Britain) with no connection to the Irish surnames discussed above.
So if your name is any one of those above, you actually need to have some details about your roots before you know how to write it in Irish!
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Hi, you have the same information about Jeremiah Holy who is my great, great grandfather, My great grandfather Timothy is one of Jeremiah sons but I don't know much at all. Have trouble looking his name.
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Hi all, This is all new to me, but while researching, I came across a Mary or Maria Holy in county Sligo as mother in baptismal records of Bridget/Brigida Warren (with William/Guillermus Warren).
NLI Catholic records:
Microfilm 04603 Drumcliff; County of Sligo; Diocese of Elphin. Baptisms, Jan. 1844 to Feb. 1844
Should other people need to broaden their search, I wanted everyone to know that this name is found elsewhere.
That said, I have no reason to think it was ever another name, even if it was -- I just don't know. And Warren is such an English sounding name, it wouldn't surprise me if this Holy turned out to be Anglo-Irish. Also, I'm not even sure this is my ancestor.
I found this record because I hit a brick wall and started randomly searching for family with the right names (Bridget of Wm and Mary Warren), at the right time, and this family fits the bill perfectly, although that would be a shock if I lucked out in some way. I know they left between children, as one is born in Ireland (US census says "free states of..." but you never know), and the next is born in 1847 in the US, so that puts departure 1844 to ~1847 along with so many others.
If anyone has information on this Holy-Warren family in county Sligo, I'd be all ears. Or for that matter, any William & Mary Warren from any province with at least one child named Bridget who left circa 1845. I supposed they might have had other children who didn't survive the voyage, though that is a horrible thought. Bridget married a Michael McCarthy also born in Ireland, and there is a possibility that these two families knew each other back home -- from what I've read of other peoples' anecdotes. Getting to the home county is not my only broken link, I also think they lived early on in Nantucket, but I'm having a hard time achieving certainty that the Warrens there are they. If the Drumcliff, co. Sligo Holy-Warren family is my family, they'd have left by the time Griffith's Evaluation started. And if it's not, I might be able to find them still listed as residing there. I'm just not well-versed enough yet to know exactly how to tease the info from the records, but I'll get there. I do know I'm doing this backwards. I just haven't got better ideas.
Cheers,
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... Hi all, This is all new to me, but while researching, I came across a Mary or Maria Holy in county Sligo as mother in baptismal records of Bridget/Brigida Warren (with William/Guillermus Warren).
NLI Catholic records:
Microfilm 04603 Drumcliff; County of Sligo; Diocese of Elphin. Baptisms, Jan. 1844 to Feb. 1844
Should other people need to broaden their search, I wanted everyone to know that this name is found elsewhere ....
Hello and welcome to RootsChat.
We can hear what other folk think once they've clicked on the link below to the NLI register, but to me Mary's surname is more recognisable as 'Hoey' (left page, 5th entry down):
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633949#page/9/mode/1up
It also makes more sense given wider context, for example, Griffiths Valuation shows several Hoeys in the civil parish of Drumcliff, local print date 1858:
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearch
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I read the name as Hoey also :)
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http://www.rootschat.com/links/01i03/
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01i04/
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http://www.rootschat.com/links/01i03/
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01i04/
Interestingly, for the only 'Holey' entry in Sligo in the above links (Thos Holey of Carrowdarny), I'm seeing something different again in the original, ie. a Thos Foley - and again, there is a potentially corroborating (albeit later) entry in Griffith's Valuation for a Thomas Foley of Carrownadargny in the CP of Shancough.
Edited to add: Only had time to check a couple more of the 'Holey' records in the applotment book links above (the ones not in the far south - counties Leitrim and Mayo) and they look like 'Foley' as well, there may be a mistranscription pattern emerging.
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Wow, thanks everybody! Everyone is absolutely right about Griffith's. I could not find a single Holy in the area, so my post here is sorely misplaced. But I am very glad for everyone's responses and I will check in soon again.
I will look into Hoey and Holey, and wait for others to weigh in.
And thanks especially for showing me new resources I had not found yet!
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Hi
I wrote to you a couple of years ago. My greatgreat grand father is Jeremiah Holy (HOLEY) I know he lived in the town of Smythesdale, Victoria. I know he own a hotel in geelong and lost it. so I was wondering where you are up to